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Speaker 1: Apoche Production.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld.

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Speaker 3: I am Neil the Muscle Commons, and in this episode

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Speaker 3: I speak with former superintendents and commander of Strikeforce Raptor

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Speaker 3: Deborah Wallace.

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Speaker 1: The person that was trying to organize, said what would

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Speaker 1: be the point of taking her out? And probably a

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Speaker 1: bit flattering and said it'd be like taking out the

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Speaker 1: Prime Minister. You know, there'd be too much heed on us. Well,

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Speaker 1: when I got there, I think there was one hundred

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Speaker 1: and twenty four outlaw motorcycle gang clubhouses in the state

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Speaker 1: by the time I left us three. Wow, it would

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Speaker 1: behalf of rap down. In September of twenty nineteen, the

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Speaker 1: World Achievement Award in Best Practice in taking down outlaw

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Speaker 1: motorcycle Gangs. The World Fraternity of Law Enforcement Officers recognize

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Speaker 1: that Raptors best practice in the world.

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Speaker 3: Deborah Wallis, thank you for coming in on my podcast

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Speaker 3: yet again as the second appearance on Secretcy on the World.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad you're here.

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Speaker 3: I want to kind of refreshen the interview with you

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Speaker 3: that we did have fucking I think it was twenty

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty one, yeah, twenty one, probably before we start

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Speaker 3: was it thirty six or thirty seven years you were

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Speaker 3: doing just about thirty seven thirty seven? Yeah, okay, because

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Speaker 3: I was looking at that and on Google it was

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Speaker 3: thirty six, and then you've gone.

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Speaker 2: Another page of thirty seven.

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Speaker 1: I think, you know it sounds ridiculous, but it's when

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Speaker 1: you're joined to, when you become a constant and all that.

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Speaker 4: So let's sit on thirty six. Last around number A right,

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Speaker 4: thirty six Yeah, I like even numbers. So just a

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Speaker 4: quick insight onto you yourself, Debora. You've taken on murderers,

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Speaker 4: drug suppliers, dismantled the state's most feared gangs. Anything you've

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Speaker 4: ever been scared of?

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Speaker 1: Not really, I think, because you're always with people, you

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Speaker 1: don't really think about it. Recently, there was a disclosure,

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Speaker 1: which is no big deal about potential hit. There was

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Speaker 1: to take out on me, and it was not by

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Speaker 1: a gangster. It was by a person who was a

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Speaker 1: bit jealous of me my relationship with one of the gangsters,

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Speaker 1: as in not a remaining but a professional one. But

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Speaker 1: he saw himself a bit like me. He saw himself

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Speaker 1: as a foot soldier than a commander, and he sort of,

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Speaker 1: for some reason, felt he was close to me, and

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Speaker 1: the person that had an obsession with him perhaps was

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Speaker 1: a bit That's the only motive we can think of.

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Speaker 1: This is going back ten years, and I re emerged

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Speaker 1: only recently. I never really talked about it previously because

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Speaker 1: it was really what didn't happen obviously, And so I

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Speaker 1: suppose people said to me, you know, now you know

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Speaker 1: at the time, were you scared? And I said, well, no,

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Speaker 1: because it's the ones you probably don't hear about the

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Speaker 1: things that you will worry about. I have to say

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Speaker 1: I never felt a threat under threat?

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Speaker 3: Would you think because you're in the police force and

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Speaker 3: I felt like that comes around that you feel like

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Speaker 3: you've got that bit of cover. But what now if

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Speaker 3: it happened now, do you think would you be scared?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: I think the same thing. I think they're smart enough

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Speaker 1: to know that taking out one person or taking out

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Speaker 1: the commander doesn't stop anything. That not, it's even worse

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Speaker 1: for them. So I think they's still got that common sense.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the conversation that was had between the person

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Speaker 1: that was trying to organize hit and the person that

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Speaker 1: may have taken the contract said exactly that said, what

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Speaker 1: would be the point of taking her out because it's

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Speaker 1: probably a bit flattering. Said it'd be like taking out

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Speaker 1: the prime minister. You know, there'd be too much heat

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Speaker 1: on us. I was glad that person gave that kind

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Speaker 1: of sense, But no, I don't think I think this.

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Speaker 1: And you know, by the time they get down that

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Speaker 1: track of being arrested and charged before courts, I mean,

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Speaker 1: they run out of people to hate. Do I hate

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Speaker 1: the cop that arrested me? Do I hate the commander

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Speaker 1: of the unit? Do I hate the prosecutor? Do I

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Speaker 1: hate the role over witness? Do I hate the jury?

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Speaker 1: Do I hate the judge? In the end, they just forget,

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Speaker 1: and I think they think, well, they've got bigger things

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Speaker 1: to worry about because they've now got a life in

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Speaker 1: prison or a period of time in prison. And I

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Speaker 1: think that it just all morphs into what would be

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Speaker 1: the point? How do you organize it? And all that

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Speaker 1: sort of stuff. So I think the reality is and

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Speaker 1: if we look back at history, really, Colin Winchester, so sadly,

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Speaker 1: was probably the last police hit and that was in

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Speaker 1: the seventies. So I think we're pretty well. I mean,

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Speaker 1: we never take anything for granted, but we can't live

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Speaker 1: our life. We wouldn't do our job if we lived

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Speaker 1: our life duck in at shadows.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but do you feel like because you were in

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Speaker 3: the police force you would have a lot of haters?

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Speaker 3: But you still think you've got them haters? Like I

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Speaker 3: know I've still got them haters and they'll never go away.

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Speaker 3: Like I still get people saying you never let me

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Speaker 3: in that club. You know what was your problem with me?

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Speaker 3: This is that why did you do this to me?

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Speaker 3: I still get it to this dage. So would you

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Speaker 3: still get that? I don't think so.

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Speaker 2: I think I think I've moved on that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think they saw it.

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Speaker 2: We should move on for me.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm just a nicer person. Yeah, it's just about

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Speaker 1: the timing. And I remember the Asian gangster said to

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Speaker 1: me one time, and we were there was a suggestion

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Speaker 1: that Truemantran, the leader of the street gang the five

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Speaker 1: t that he took the hit out on John Newman.

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Speaker 1: There was a lot of speculation at the time, in

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Speaker 1: the initial hours, and I remember having a conversation way

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Speaker 1: back then and they said, well, we have to have

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Speaker 1: a reason to take you out. What would be the

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Speaker 1: what what would we achieved by just taking a heat

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Speaker 1: out of a cop. What would be the point We

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Speaker 1: only take people out who you know owes money or

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Speaker 1: we've got a bit better against or whatever we're in.

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Speaker 1: Couldn't lick withy And I think you know the reality

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Speaker 1: is they play the game. Yeah, they know what the

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Speaker 1: outcomes likely to be.

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Speaker 2: All right.

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Speaker 3: So you started off in the police force in nineteen

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Speaker 3: eighty three, correct, yep? But I did see and correct

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Speaker 3: me if I'm wrong. It was to be a travel agent.

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Speaker 1: Yes, you did, I did, still do. Really.

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Speaker 3: Wow, that's a bit of a career change.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, simply a case of I come from very much

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Speaker 1: a working class family in the western suburer of Sydney.

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Speaker 1: Grew up at Westmead and lived at Paramounta, went to

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Speaker 1: Paramouna High. We'll probably that one of those families that

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Speaker 1: referred to on struggle streets. So my dad, who was

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Speaker 1: holding three jobs at the time, said that we should

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Speaker 1: all get my brother's got trades and us my sister

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Speaker 1: and I become my secretaries and work for the government

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Speaker 1: because secure. So when I had this dream, because I

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Speaker 1: came along fifteen years after my two other siblings, I

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Speaker 1: thought I can wrap Dad round my finger, and so

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Speaker 1: I finished school, you know, as you do. And it

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Speaker 1: was back then in sixth form, and I knew that Grandville,

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Speaker 1: Taif had a course for travel agents and typing, and

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Speaker 1: so I thought, how do I sort of span this

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Speaker 1: out from October to February without going to work? Anyway,

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Speaker 1: my dad had other ideas and got me a job

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Speaker 1: basically three days after I left school, as a clerk

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Speaker 1: typist for an electrical company which was a government owned

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Speaker 1: And he felt so proud of himself that he was

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Speaker 1: able to talk to the HR manager and he said

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Speaker 1: to me, you know, pat me on the back, and

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Speaker 1: he said, you know, deb it's a secure it's a

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Speaker 1: government job, and you can be there for life. And

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Speaker 1: I thought, oh god, I was seventeen. And then it's

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Speaker 1: sort of just you know, I couldn't leave. And Dad

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Speaker 1: got me the job. And that wasn't until I saw

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Speaker 1: in eighty two and add in the paper one for

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Speaker 1: and one for the police, in particular women. And in

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Speaker 1: those days both those organizations had a height restriction, so

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Speaker 1: I knew I might not have much else, but I

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Speaker 1: had to height, and then I had to weigh up

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Speaker 1: do I apply for quantus where you know it's probably

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Speaker 1: glamorous and you get to travel the world. It's probably

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Speaker 1: close to a travel agent. But you have to probably

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Speaker 1: be nice to people for your whole So you said

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Speaker 1: you were never nice to visits prob DNA. I thought

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Speaker 1: maybe I'd better suited to be a cop. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I went down that line and never never a day,

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Speaker 1: never a day in those thirty six years. Do I

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Speaker 1: ever regret that decision?

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Speaker 2: Wow? Big change. So you started off at Blacktown Polication? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: how was that?

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Speaker 1: It was Blacktown in those days? We were actually just

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Speaker 1: so so how long ago it was Blacktown and Mount

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Speaker 1: Druett were together. It was raw, It was largely working

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Speaker 1: class families. The demographics were largely you know, lower socioeconomic,

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Speaker 1: middle class Anglo. Really, that was the sort of the footprint.

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Speaker 1: The cops there were fantastic, and I know we hear

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Speaker 1: stories of you know, inappropriate behavior and bullying. I have

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Speaker 1: to say those men, and most of them were all men.

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Speaker 1: There was on a handful of us girls. I couldn't

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Speaker 1: have asked to be treated with more respect. In fact,

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Speaker 1: I was so happy that we had to do three

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Speaker 1: years in uniform, and all I could think of is

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Speaker 1: do three years? I want to stay here for my

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Speaker 1: whole career because the work was busy. You're flat out,

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Speaker 1: you learned fast, but you're also supported by this amazing

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Speaker 1: police family.

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Speaker 2: Well you've been in black town.

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Speaker 3: While you were a blacktown, you were kind of approached

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Speaker 3: to do something for Anita Kobe.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Do you think that is your ten and point in

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Speaker 3: the force?

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Speaker 1: Do you think that was absolutely? Absolutely? Because I never,

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Speaker 1: you know, detectives were like this in a sanctum upstairs,

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Speaker 1: you know, like that they're the detectives. You never sort

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Speaker 1: of preached the door, so to speak. And when Graham Rosetta,

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Speaker 1: who's my hero, who is a detective sergeant in charge

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Speaker 1: of that in visit, my absolute hero, he asked me

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Speaker 1: to do the reenactment as a gimmick, I guess in

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Speaker 1: a way to keep the media engaged, but also for

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Speaker 1: timing because witnesses had heard things and seen things. Yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: So when he then said, after the reenactment that night,

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Speaker 1: would you like to be detective? And I thought, oh,

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Speaker 1: I must have walked good on that train because I didn't.

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Speaker 1: He didn't really know me, but he allowed me the opportunity.

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Speaker 1: And I always learned right through my career and I

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Speaker 1: say this now when I talk to other organizations or

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Speaker 1: two policewomen, you know, the best thing we can be

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Speaker 1: done for us. I forget quotas. The best thing anyone

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Speaker 1: can do for women in an organization is just offer

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Speaker 1: them the opportunity to do something. And I always say

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Speaker 1: to women, if someone offers you an opportunity, to take it.

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Speaker 1: So when Graham said to me, would you like to

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Speaker 1: be a detective? I don't think he meant i'd actually be,

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Speaker 1: but he allowed it. I think he meant to come

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Speaker 1: upstairs and work and be part of the team, and

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Speaker 1: then we'll see. And what I saw I was so

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Speaker 1: in press. I saw grit for one of a better word,

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Speaker 1: a dogged determination, hard work, passion, commitment. Although I'd seen

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Speaker 1: it in the three years with my gd's or general duties, please,

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Speaker 1: I saw yet again, maybe where I could fit for

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Speaker 1: me better. And so that was the turning point. And

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Speaker 1: that was once I stepped foot onto those detective's office

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty six. I never stepped out and I

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Speaker 1: finished my days as a detective.

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Speaker 3: So it was eighty six that you were actually given

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Speaker 3: that role.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes, she.

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Speaker 1: Got murdered on the second of February nineteen eighty six.

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Speaker 2: Wow, So from there did you get?

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Speaker 3: Is that when you were put onto the Cabramatta crime

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Speaker 3: squad scene though they to say was that difficult?

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Speaker 1: Well it was And again opportunity. So I worked at

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Speaker 1: Blacktown for the next six years or up until nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 1: So I got my what we call in the cops,

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Speaker 1: you're a bit of paper like you finished your apprenticeship.

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Speaker 1: So I've got my designation in nineteen eighty nine. Now

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm now a scene in constable and you

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Speaker 1: know this is fantastic stick. And then a sergeant who'd

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Speaker 1: been at Blacktown had transferred as the commander of Cabramatta,

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Speaker 1: as was Alan Link, and you know he went away

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Speaker 1: and he was a chief inspector. Great and then I

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Speaker 1: get a phone call to say would I liked he

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Speaker 1: didn't have detectives, and detectives in that area were at Fairfield,

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Speaker 1: but he wanted to set up his own detective's office.

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Speaker 1: So he ragged me and said why don't you come

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Speaker 1: with me at Cabra Matta And I thought, oh, and

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Speaker 1: again I thought in my mind, opportunity. You know, I

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Speaker 1: didn't know anything about Cabra matter. But but he no,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know i'd been. Well, why I've been

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Speaker 1: there is because my partner at Blacktown Detectives, my dearest,

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Speaker 1: we would partners for three years, Bobby Broad. He was

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Speaker 1: an ex Fairfield detective, so he used to take me

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Speaker 1: over to get Chinese feed on afternoonship. So I'd been there,

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Speaker 1: but never really never know what know. So when Alan said,

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Speaker 1: why don't you come over here, I've got this amazing

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Speaker 1: I've got got a handful of detectives, but I've got

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Speaker 1: this amazing group of young beat cops who I'd like

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Speaker 1: to turn into detectives, and I need some ad to

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Speaker 1: the numbers. So I trusted Alan always had, so I

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Speaker 1: thought he wouldn't be giving me a bump steer. And

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Speaker 1: he said, there's this great team. So I thought, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was always going to be probably the kid at

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Speaker 1: Blacktown in a way. So and Graham had had gone.

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Speaker 1: Graham retired not long after then. He had some hearing

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Speaker 1: issues and he was ready to go, and so I thought,

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Speaker 1: well the other door opened, So off I went to

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Speaker 1: Cabra Matter And what a delight and what a highlight

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Speaker 1: of my career to work in absolutely like I'm used to.

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Speaker 1: Most of the crooks were white Anglo males, and in fact,

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Speaker 1: I always you know, tongue in cheek, of course, say

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Speaker 1: if nearly everyone we locked up was called Wayne for

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Speaker 1: some reason, and I always had this theory if people

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Speaker 1: stopped calling their kids way, we would have crucked the

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Speaker 1: crime weight by about eighty percent. But I went over

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Speaker 1: to Cabra Matter and I remember day and a couple

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Speaker 1: of young beat cops took me for a walk, who

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Speaker 1: were now training to be detectives. So come on, deb

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Speaker 1: we'll take you for a walk. And I thought, oh, well,

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Speaker 1: we're going to walk like we're going to get the car.

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Speaker 1: And I questioned that. They said, yeah, no, you don't

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Speaker 1: need a car because everything happens in three streets, which

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Speaker 1: was right was in the CBD, and I remember going

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Speaker 1: up the street and they started to engage very much

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Speaker 1: with what you you know, readily identifies as gangsters, but

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Speaker 1: they were quite conversational. There was this the gangster was

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Speaker 1: certainly respectful of the cops, you know, I call them mister,

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Speaker 1: and asked who I was. And then I asked the

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Speaker 1: question about, oh, that doesn't seem to be too many

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Speaker 1: waynes here, and one of the guys said to me,

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Speaker 1: which is true. They said, no, damn no, this is

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Speaker 1: an amazing community. And what you've got to learn is

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Speaker 1: the last name is first, the first name is last.

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Speaker 1: I had the middle name. They don't sometimes know because

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Speaker 1: there we don't come out of prison camps and whatnot,

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Speaker 1: So we just make up a name if they give

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Speaker 1: it to As we just accepted, we actually don't even

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Speaker 1: know how old they are, so they could be eighteen

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Speaker 1: or they could be thirty five. So it was a

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Speaker 1: really complex scenario and dealing with the community who had

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Speaker 1: a just something so simple you take for granted. We

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Speaker 1: lock up after someone had identify being stood over by

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Speaker 1: a group, and many of the community stood up and said,

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Speaker 1: we escaped a regime of terror, and you know, so

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Speaker 1: we've come over here, so we need to embrace this

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Speaker 1: country and their laws. So they stood up so it

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Speaker 1: would identify criminals who might be standing at the Extortion

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Speaker 1: was a big thing initially before the drugs hit. So

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Speaker 1: we locked them up and then they'd go to court,

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Speaker 1: and of course they might have conditional bail, which is

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Speaker 1: you know, you lodge five thousand dollars and blah blah,

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Speaker 1: and of course the gangsters had the money. The community

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Speaker 1: members would come to us and say, well, you're no

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Speaker 1: different to what we left. I said, what do you mean?

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Speaker 1: They said, well, we tell you who did it. You

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Speaker 1: put them in jail, but then we see them up

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Speaker 1: a street and we're here. They paid money and they

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Speaker 1: got out. So we had to really work right strip

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Speaker 1: it right back to explain about bail. And so yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was one step forward, two steps back sometimes.

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Speaker 3: So what was the big thing for you to do

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Speaker 3: in Cabra Mata. Was it the cleaner up? Push the

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Speaker 3: drug trade out?

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Speaker 2: What was it? What was the role that you had

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Speaker 2: to do there?

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Speaker 1: It was really dismantling, Yeah, it was. So I was

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Speaker 1: seeing consortable right up till ninety five. That's when I

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Speaker 1: became a sergeant. That's when John Newman was murdered in

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Speaker 1: ninety four, the leader of the street gang. So there's

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Speaker 1: now the media hadn't really been aware of Cabra matter

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Speaker 1: in a way. It was this sort of this thing happening,

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Speaker 1: but not no one really wants to know too much

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Speaker 1: about that sort of over there. It's over there. So

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Speaker 1: suddenly now the spotlights on Cabra Mata, and of course

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Speaker 1: for a whole range of reasons. It became. You know,

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Speaker 1: the hugest took over from the Cross. It's the biggest

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Speaker 1: distribution center of street level heroine in New South Posson,

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Speaker 1: not Australia. So when all that happened, there was bringing that.

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Speaker 1: Oh it came straight. You know, our heroin sounds awful,

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Speaker 1: but our heroin was straight as pure as you can

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Speaker 1: pretty get pretty well, seventy two eighty percent pure and

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Speaker 1: sold for half the price of the Cross. So once

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Speaker 1: they got out, all roads led the Cabramata, so that

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Speaker 1: became the King's Cross. Still had a market, as did

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Speaker 1: other places, but the cheapest, the best is Cabinmatter, which

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Speaker 1: is will come. So then I was put in charge

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Speaker 1: as a young sergeant by another hero of mine, Paul McKinnon,

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Speaker 1: of a Cabinmatter gang unit. Before all the anti stuff,

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Speaker 1: we certainly had the specialist police in those days, the

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Speaker 1: New South Wales Drug Enforcement Agency doing that middle to

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Speaker 1: high level, while we really had to disrupt the street market.

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Speaker 1: So it wasn't about moving it. It was about disrupting

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Speaker 1: it and to do as best we can at street

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Speaker 1: level to keep that. And that meant although it copped

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Speaker 1: bit of criticism. That meant disrupting the suppliers obviously locking

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Speaker 1: them up, but it also meant disrupting the users as well,

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Speaker 1: because a lot of them were just blowings from most

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Speaker 1: of them were blowings from all around Sydney in South Wales.

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Speaker 1: So that was this strategy, and we did it through

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Speaker 1: mixture of covert policing other words on small street level

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Speaker 1: undercover operations. And also I had an amazing group of

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Speaker 1: feat police so they would do the high visibility stuff

361
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Speaker 1: as well. So combination and getting that combination to compliment

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Speaker 1: each other and work together.

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Speaker 3: It didn't It didn't cause any conflict because like as

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Speaker 3: you said before that the five t's kind of run

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Speaker 3: that area didn't bring any conflict between you and them.

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Speaker 1: They saw it as a as a game. In fact,

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Speaker 1: it was pretty We did it pretty raw in those days.

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Speaker 1: I guess, you know, we put a T shirt on

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Speaker 1: a cop and send him up the street and yeah,

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Speaker 1: we only had it was all about the money. And

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Speaker 1: I remember we had this one guy. He was excellent

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Speaker 1: because we got them from a joining commands to come

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Speaker 1: in that we did. We sort of used our local

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Speaker 1: cops to do their resting and we got other so

375
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Speaker 1: and I remember this one guy. He was fantastic. He

376
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Speaker 1: was from Green Valley and he was great up the street.

377
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Speaker 1: He played the part. And I remember when he came

378
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Speaker 1: back after we'd arrested someone and he says, I probably

379
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Speaker 1: have to have a couple of weeks rest. I said, well,

380
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Speaker 1: he said, well, I had trouble getting on today. They

381
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Speaker 1: said what happened and he said, well, the usual supplies

382
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Speaker 1: said to him, you have a problem. You're here every

383
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Speaker 1: day buying a lot of slotter drugs. You need to

384
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Speaker 1: get help. So there was that, and no they it

385
00:18:20,961 --> 00:18:24,400
Speaker 1: was a bit like we take out ten, there's another

386
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Speaker 1: ten to replace. The gangs themselves just managed it, didn't they.

387
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Speaker 1: Cannon followed to do there yea selling because.

388
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Speaker 3: The main distribution and camera MADA was around the train station,

389
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Speaker 3: wasn't it correct?

390
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Speaker 1: It was the train station hard because the idea was

391
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Speaker 1: the users could just get off the train because all

392
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Speaker 1: roads there the camera, get off the train and be

393
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Speaker 1: met at the station, do a quick exchange and get

394
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Speaker 1: back on in exchrain. But of course when there was

395
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Speaker 1: a bit of a when that was exhausted, they'd go

396
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Speaker 1: wandering up the streets. So it was all the way

397
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Speaker 1: it was probably in that That's why we say everything

398
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Speaker 1: happened in three streets because it was that whole CBD,

399
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Speaker 1: but predominantly around the railway station.

400
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Speaker 2: What was the biggest thing or that you see in

401
00:19:03,801 --> 00:19:04,321
Speaker 2: Cabra Mada.

402
00:19:04,441 --> 00:19:06,640
Speaker 3: Was there anything there that you haven't seen before in

403
00:19:06,681 --> 00:19:08,920
Speaker 3: the police force while you've been there not.

404
00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:11,921
Speaker 1: I guess what I saw was that was the first

405
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Speaker 1: time I saw open displays of brutality of violence. You know,

406
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Speaker 1: it was it was They mightn't have been really good

407
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,201
Speaker 1: with guns at the time, but they were really good

408
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Speaker 1: with machete. So you know, you often I think this

409
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Speaker 1: sounds bizarre, but it was how it was, and it

410
00:19:26,360 --> 00:19:28,761
Speaker 1: was it was a no one would believe if you

411
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Speaker 1: didn't live it, And so we would go up that.

412
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Speaker 1: We'd always do a lot of walking around capin Maatic

413
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Speaker 1: because everything was on the foot path. So the detectives

414
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Speaker 1: there was you know, there's only a small group of detectives.

415
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,241
Speaker 1: But we'd go to this fantastic restaurant called the Taran

416
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Speaker 1: Bin in John Street. It was fantastic. A lovely woman

417
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Speaker 1: called and all the restaurants were fanned, ninety four of them.

418
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Speaker 1: I've eaten in everyone and ANGI owned this particular one,

419
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Speaker 1: and we'd go up there and we'd order or everyone

420
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Speaker 1: would order a different thing. And this is like putting

421
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Speaker 1: the quirkiness of the place. And so we'd sit down

422
00:20:01,481 --> 00:20:04,041
Speaker 1: waiting for our meals, and then sure enough, then you'd

423
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Speaker 1: see you know, someone who whoever's face in the winters.

424
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Speaker 1: Ah no, And you'd see some guy, a game member

425
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Speaker 1: running up street wielding a machete or a pool cue.

426
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Speaker 1: So we go, oh no, and we do all have

427
00:20:13,041 --> 00:20:16,440
Speaker 1: to run out. By the end, Angie was getting the

428
00:20:16,481 --> 00:20:18,561
Speaker 1: dirts with us because she said, you know, you come here,

429
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:21,360
Speaker 1: you all have food, but you all run out. And

430
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,401
Speaker 1: she said, I know you all pay like you pay

431
00:20:23,481 --> 00:20:26,321
Speaker 1: up front, but it's not the point. You're wasting good money.

432
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:28,801
Speaker 1: You have a good food. I hate cooking food. This

433
00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,801
Speaker 1: is waste. So she said, what we do with it?

434
00:20:30,921 --> 00:20:33,481
Speaker 1: She worked it all out. She said, okay, when you're

435
00:20:33,521 --> 00:20:35,321
Speaker 1: coming up for lunch, you wring my head, and I

436
00:20:35,481 --> 00:20:38,680
Speaker 1: make a special soup. And it was called cop soup.

437
00:20:38,801 --> 00:20:41,160
Speaker 1: And it became a white yeah, and it became quite famous.

438
00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,840
Speaker 1: In fact, you could go in and ask for it

439
00:20:44,241 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 1: and what it was because she said, I make a

440
00:20:46,761 --> 00:20:49,160
Speaker 1: mixture of what you all order, and she remembered our orders.

441
00:20:49,321 --> 00:20:52,281
Speaker 1: She said, we're having a soup with short noodle, long noodle,

442
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:55,481
Speaker 1: wan toons, Chris Biskin, chicken on the side, and pork

443
00:20:55,521 --> 00:20:58,880
Speaker 1: and seafood in the bottle, and that keeps you all happy,

444
00:20:59,041 --> 00:21:01,120
Speaker 1: and you just shove it down, she says, so before

445
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 1: the boys run out with the sore. So that was

446
00:21:04,441 --> 00:21:06,641
Speaker 1: a little bit of it. So she'd have it already

447
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:08,241
Speaker 1: for us, so we just bring in and say eight

448
00:21:08,281 --> 00:21:08,961
Speaker 1: for copsuit.

449
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:12,921
Speaker 2: You know, by this time, like because you were making

450
00:21:12,921 --> 00:21:13,721
Speaker 2: a name for yourself.

451
00:21:13,801 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 3: When I got to hear about you, it was mostly

452
00:21:15,481 --> 00:21:17,801
Speaker 3: when you went to the Raptor Squad, the Straightforce Raptor.

453
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,360
Speaker 3: That's when I started to hear about you. But you

454
00:21:20,481 --> 00:21:22,001
Speaker 3: got a nickname called a game Buster.

455
00:21:22,961 --> 00:21:23,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that was.

456
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:25,801
Speaker 2: How did that come about?

457
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,001
Speaker 1: No, look, it was I think just a media thing.

458
00:21:28,761 --> 00:21:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeah it was.

459
00:21:29,921 --> 00:21:31,640
Speaker 3: It's funny because when I seen that, I went, I

460
00:21:31,721 --> 00:21:32,961
Speaker 3: just want to google gang boss.

461
00:21:32,801 --> 00:21:35,961
Speaker 1: And you do come up with last You know where

462
00:21:36,001 --> 00:21:39,161
Speaker 1: I think it came from. I think because I had

463
00:21:39,241 --> 00:21:40,961
Speaker 1: If you look back in my career from ninety five

464
00:21:41,041 --> 00:21:43,600
Speaker 1: right to my retirement, I'd worked on gangs various months.

465
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:45,680
Speaker 1: So they did the Asian street gangs. Then I did

466
00:21:45,761 --> 00:21:48,520
Speaker 1: Middle Eastern organized crime, so really gangs. Then I did

467
00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:51,281
Speaker 1: Asian organized crime, so Asian gangs, and then moved to

468
00:21:51,681 --> 00:21:54,161
Speaker 1: raptor and biking gang. So I think that theme was there,

469
00:21:54,201 --> 00:21:56,120
Speaker 1: and I think it was just something because as I

470
00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:59,481
Speaker 1: often said, there's no one gang buster. There's a team

471
00:21:59,521 --> 00:22:02,481
Speaker 1: of gang busters, because you don't do anything without a team.

472
00:22:02,521 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: In the crops, it's all together. But I think, you know,

473
00:22:05,521 --> 00:22:06,761
Speaker 1: like you know what the media is like, they need

474
00:22:06,761 --> 00:22:08,281
Speaker 1: a hook, that sort of thing.

475
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:11,041
Speaker 3: Out of all your years, who'd you actually think is

476
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 3: the most organized crime gang that you've come across.

477
00:22:14,961 --> 00:22:17,321
Speaker 1: Look if we put them into categories, and again I'm

478
00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:19,321
Speaker 1: going to be very generalized here, but this is just

479
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:23,921
Speaker 1: my perception. The top of the tree absolutely Asian organized crime.

480
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 1: They're savvy, they're understated, they're ruthless, and they're smart and

481
00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:33,001
Speaker 1: they can pivot. They're resilient. It was interesting when you

482
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,481
Speaker 1: lock them up, they would never they've come by appointment.

483
00:22:35,561 --> 00:22:37,521
Speaker 1: That was the weirdest thing were.

484
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,921
Speaker 3: Talking about, like triads and Fivesn't.

485
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: That much triads here there was. It was probably criminal networks. Really,

486
00:22:43,681 --> 00:22:46,240
Speaker 1: the five T was certainly an organized crash, certainly not

487
00:22:46,281 --> 00:22:48,240
Speaker 1: like organized crime. But it had a structure, It had

488
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,521
Speaker 1: a leader that had a senior management that had to

489
00:22:51,561 --> 00:22:53,600
Speaker 1: make money. It was it was about it was it

490
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,281
Speaker 1: was about survival and missionary for them because they were

491
00:22:56,321 --> 00:23:00,160
Speaker 1: all kids that came out initially from prison camps. I

492
00:23:00,201 --> 00:23:03,241
Speaker 1: had no family, so they actually bonded like a group

493
00:23:03,241 --> 00:23:05,921
Speaker 1: of street urchins. Led by and dream In Tran, who

494
00:23:05,961 --> 00:23:09,200
Speaker 1: was a very charismatic leader, never forgot his group. It

495
00:23:09,241 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: was to him it was about providing a future in

496
00:23:12,120 --> 00:23:15,681
Speaker 1: a way for this group. All bit murdering people and

497
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:19,680
Speaker 1: selling drugs. It's interesting business model. So they at the

498
00:23:19,721 --> 00:23:22,441
Speaker 1: top of the tree. Then I would call, and it's

499
00:23:22,441 --> 00:23:25,440
Speaker 1: a bit of a misnomer, our squad was called Middle

500
00:23:25,441 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 1: East an organized crime. I think it was more about

501
00:23:28,441 --> 00:23:31,041
Speaker 1: the fact that fitted nicely on a boondot of a

502
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,521
Speaker 1: highway car mioks. When you look back at it, it probably

503
00:23:34,561 --> 00:23:38,400
Speaker 1: should have been Middle East and disorganized crime, because they weren't.

504
00:23:38,640 --> 00:23:42,321
Speaker 1: If we took the sophistication Asians at the top, probably

505
00:23:42,441 --> 00:23:46,321
Speaker 1: the bottom ones. And I say this in an interesting

506
00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:49,561
Speaker 1: way because although they're just organized, they were rag tag.

507
00:23:49,681 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 1: They had no structure. They weren't savvy. They did blatant

508
00:23:53,041 --> 00:23:57,400
Speaker 1: That made them more dangerous because there over displays of

509
00:23:57,481 --> 00:24:00,681
Speaker 1: violence would be indiscriminate, if that makes sense. And as

510
00:24:00,721 --> 00:24:03,600
Speaker 1: we've read, you know, ongoing, they get the wrong target.

511
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,480
Speaker 1: They don't do their intelligence, even things like I remember

512
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,041
Speaker 1: one was over an argument between the two wives that

513
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,041
Speaker 1: are a supermarket of a trolley. So then the two

514
00:24:13,041 --> 00:24:15,201
Speaker 1: blokes get involved, you know, and then there's oh, we'll

515
00:24:15,201 --> 00:24:17,080
Speaker 1: just shoot you, you know, all that sort of stuff. And

516
00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:18,801
Speaker 1: then in the middle, if I was to then say,

517
00:24:18,801 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: in the middle, you probably have out law motorcycle gangs.

518
00:24:21,481 --> 00:24:24,641
Speaker 1: You've got a mixture of that's sort of organized.

519
00:24:25,681 --> 00:24:26,400
Speaker 2: Here's the headache.

520
00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:31,041
Speaker 1: I think outlaw motorcycle gangs in a way because they've

521
00:24:31,041 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 1: got an international footprint and they can recruit into that

522
00:24:34,681 --> 00:24:38,001
Speaker 1: quite easily and everyone, which is why we worked really

523
00:24:38,001 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: hard to get rid of that intimidation, that public display

524
00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,281
Speaker 1: of intimidation. We're in colors, in restaurants and licensed prentices.

525
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:49,401
Speaker 1: So I think in a community perspective, it's probably the

526
00:24:49,441 --> 00:24:53,321
Speaker 1: outlaw motorcycle gangs because of their footprint is to intimidate.

527
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,280
Speaker 1: That's one of the business models. Looking back now, in

528
00:24:57,321 --> 00:25:02,201
Speaker 1: a way, I mean, every criminal gang is about causing

529
00:25:02,241 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: harm to our society. So they're all in their way.

530
00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,521
Speaker 1: As an individual, I would say, certainly at the moment

531
00:25:09,561 --> 00:25:13,041
Speaker 1: than probably the Middle Eastern crime groups because of that

532
00:25:13,201 --> 00:25:17,801
Speaker 1: lack of discipline, lack of structure, lack of leadership. And

533
00:25:17,801 --> 00:25:20,281
Speaker 1: we look at people groups now you see red names.

534
00:25:20,481 --> 00:25:22,801
Speaker 1: Since I've been out, and when I was in, they

535
00:25:22,801 --> 00:25:26,521
Speaker 1: were like the bottom feeders. Suddenly they emerges and I

536
00:25:26,561 --> 00:25:30,480
Speaker 1: do say, my dear friend, you know the kingpins. I'm going, oh, jeez,

537
00:25:31,001 --> 00:25:34,921
Speaker 1: you know, it's stretching it, but it's good for you know,

538
00:25:35,801 --> 00:25:39,001
Speaker 1: king point. Oh I'm not sure. Sure they're a kingpin.

539
00:25:40,281 --> 00:25:44,801
Speaker 1: And that also the impact was that was having worked

540
00:25:44,801 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: with that Middle Eastern community, and I'm talking about the

541
00:25:47,241 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: ninety nine percent who are just amazing. You can imagine

542
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: what they copped every time we locked up someone, you know,

543
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,561
Speaker 1: and there it is in the court list, Muhammad or

544
00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:01,440
Speaker 1: a Bass or whatever name. That community copped it, you know.

545
00:26:01,521 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 1: And so it was really we worked really hard in

546
00:26:04,761 --> 00:26:08,481
Speaker 1: saying to people and even to my staff would come

547
00:26:08,521 --> 00:26:11,641
Speaker 1: there and so that cops don't get tainted and stereotop

548
00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,801
Speaker 1: I'd say, we all got Lebanese friends and we've all

549
00:26:14,801 --> 00:26:18,880
Speaker 1: got Middle Eastern friends. When you're locking up that one,

550
00:26:19,201 --> 00:26:22,121
Speaker 1: that crook, that gangster, that person who has no respect

551
00:26:22,201 --> 00:26:24,801
Speaker 1: for their community or the law, I want you to

552
00:26:24,921 --> 00:26:27,840
Speaker 1: visualize why you're doing it, and you're visualizing it for

553
00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:32,041
Speaker 1: the amazing Middle Eastern friends you've got and the relationships

554
00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,521
Speaker 1: you've got, So you're expelling those group from the bigger

555
00:26:35,521 --> 00:26:38,160
Speaker 1: community who were just fantastic law abiding citizens.

556
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,681
Speaker 3: You know when when you're like you've got your team

557
00:26:40,721 --> 00:26:44,001
Speaker 3: together and you're after something like we'll say like even

558
00:26:44,041 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 3: a baky squad or crime family, and there's that there's

559
00:26:47,201 --> 00:26:49,761
Speaker 3: this kind of like the same religion in your team.

560
00:26:50,521 --> 00:26:51,601
Speaker 3: How do they go through that?

561
00:26:51,681 --> 00:26:51,961
Speaker 2: Is it?

562
00:26:52,001 --> 00:26:53,960
Speaker 3: Is it any difficult times with them or is it

563
00:26:54,001 --> 00:26:55,321
Speaker 3: they just say this is my job.

564
00:26:55,681 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: No, they were just they brought that, I think in

565
00:26:59,441 --> 00:27:03,640
Speaker 1: a way said how dare you tayde own reputation our community?

566
00:27:03,801 --> 00:27:06,241
Speaker 1: There was no issue. In fact, it was never about

567
00:27:06,321 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: I have to say, it never came down to race

568
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,321
Speaker 1: or religion or one's better than the other. And we

569
00:27:12,360 --> 00:27:16,440
Speaker 1: see within those groups this sometimes their own communities have issues.

570
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: The cops didn't to us, it was black and white.

571
00:27:18,681 --> 00:27:22,401
Speaker 1: It was good law abiding citizen criminal and in a way,

572
00:27:22,761 --> 00:27:24,840
Speaker 1: Bikey's got it right in a way when they call

573
00:27:24,921 --> 00:27:28,120
Speaker 1: themselves the one percenters, because no matter what group of

574
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:30,960
Speaker 1: criminal element you find, they really are the one percent

575
00:27:30,961 --> 00:27:34,681
Speaker 1: of society. They're not reflective of our great community generally.

576
00:27:34,721 --> 00:27:37,840
Speaker 1: That's why the cops were very passionate because they'd say,

577
00:27:37,961 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: you know, we work to make sure that our families,

578
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:43,321
Speaker 1: the people we know, the community can just get on

579
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 1: with business without these idiots causing harm to the community.

580
00:27:47,921 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 3: So it was always difficult when that when there was

581
00:27:49,921 --> 00:27:52,360
Speaker 3: a drive by or a gang shooting or something was like,

582
00:27:52,441 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 3: you know, someone was shot. For the public safety that

583
00:27:55,521 --> 00:27:57,721
Speaker 3: comes first with the police force. Ye, the public safety.

584
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 3: So just say, for instance, know like whether there was

585
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,561
Speaker 3: a gym shot at you know what I mean, how

586
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,281
Speaker 3: do you go about now with the task force of

587
00:28:05,321 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 3: like the community of helping the computers you know that

588
00:28:08,120 --> 00:28:10,440
Speaker 3: they're safe, you know, like a childcare center you know

589
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 3: was there at the same time. So what would you

590
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 3: do to make the community feel safe that this is

591
00:28:15,961 --> 00:28:16,761
Speaker 3: not going to happen again?

592
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: I think, and we see it probably back when we

593
00:28:20,120 --> 00:28:22,680
Speaker 1: certainly have those sort of scenarios, it's more recent that

594
00:28:22,721 --> 00:28:25,801
Speaker 1: it's happening, I think it's got again worse because I

595
00:28:25,801 --> 00:28:28,440
Speaker 1: think anyone with any brains is either as the Asian

596
00:28:28,441 --> 00:28:30,281
Speaker 1: gangsters used to say, you either grow up, you can

597
00:28:30,321 --> 00:28:32,120
Speaker 1: get out, you go to jail, or you get killed.

598
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:34,761
Speaker 1: So what you're left with is those people who are like,

599
00:28:35,241 --> 00:28:38,841
Speaker 1: you know, these these really irresponsible indiscriminate you in public

600
00:28:38,841 --> 00:28:42,321
Speaker 1: place shootings. I think what the cops do and they're

601
00:28:42,321 --> 00:28:44,601
Speaker 1: doing it, and I think it's a great strategy, is

602
00:28:44,601 --> 00:28:47,361
Speaker 1: they get on the front foot. They do that proactive stuff,

603
00:28:47,401 --> 00:28:49,601
Speaker 1: the high visibility stuff, saying we're here, we're going to

604
00:28:49,601 --> 00:28:51,121
Speaker 1: protect you, We're going to do everything we can. We're

605
00:28:51,121 --> 00:28:54,121
Speaker 1: going to break this up. Which is why while the

606
00:28:54,161 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: other side's happening the investigations, because we know we have

607
00:28:57,281 --> 00:29:00,201
Speaker 1: to put people before courts with evidence, which can take time.

608
00:29:00,841 --> 00:29:03,561
Speaker 1: So I think that was a great model that we developed.

609
00:29:03,601 --> 00:29:06,001
Speaker 1: What you thinks ongoing, I think we go right back

610
00:29:06,401 --> 00:29:08,801
Speaker 1: to when Gain was set up back in two thousand

611
00:29:08,841 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: and three, when we had the original family feuds with

612
00:29:12,201 --> 00:29:14,720
Speaker 1: the Darwitch's and the Raziks, and if we looked at

613
00:29:14,721 --> 00:29:18,681
Speaker 1: that model, it was a mixture of this disruption, disabling

614
00:29:19,401 --> 00:29:23,001
Speaker 1: dismantling with the investigation side, which is what the model

615
00:29:23,041 --> 00:29:25,480
Speaker 1: we all then went on with. And I think that

616
00:29:25,601 --> 00:29:27,761
Speaker 1: still happens today and I think, you know, never a

617
00:29:27,761 --> 00:29:31,161
Speaker 1: greater result that working together with the homicide squad. So

618
00:29:31,201 --> 00:29:34,281
Speaker 1: when I was at Gangs and wrapped up working with

619
00:29:34,281 --> 00:29:36,881
Speaker 1: the homicide squad, and back when I was at Middle Eastern,

620
00:29:37,201 --> 00:29:39,561
Speaker 1: so we did the Brothers for Life. For example, far

621
00:29:39,641 --> 00:29:42,041
Speaker 1: Head Quami and his group. While we were targeting the guns,

622
00:29:42,161 --> 00:29:47,041
Speaker 1: drugs and shootings, homicide were targeting the homicides that they

623
00:29:47,081 --> 00:29:49,081
Speaker 1: were involved in. So we and then we had this

624
00:29:49,241 --> 00:29:52,641
Speaker 1: fantastic partnership so we could support each other. We know

625
00:29:52,721 --> 00:29:54,321
Speaker 1: what they're doing, we know what they need, we know

626
00:29:54,321 --> 00:29:56,921
Speaker 1: what we need to get them mixed with. We'll buy

627
00:29:56,921 --> 00:29:59,201
Speaker 1: you some time. We'll keep them moving around, will keep

628
00:29:59,201 --> 00:30:02,281
Speaker 1: them distracted because while ever we're on the tail, they're

629
00:30:02,281 --> 00:30:05,681
Speaker 1: not likely to go out hopefully and do it sometimes

630
00:30:05,681 --> 00:30:08,081
Speaker 1: I do another murder. We hope to have enough coverage

631
00:30:08,081 --> 00:30:11,041
Speaker 1: around them to give you time. So it's a great model.

632
00:30:11,361 --> 00:30:15,001
Speaker 3: Wow, was surveillance always a big thing for you guys?

633
00:30:15,041 --> 00:30:17,401
Speaker 3: Like when you had the target that us were after? Yeah,

634
00:30:17,521 --> 00:30:19,561
Speaker 3: how did you go about that? Like to not be

635
00:30:19,641 --> 00:30:22,081
Speaker 3: seen that like that was like, I still won't know

636
00:30:22,121 --> 00:30:22,361
Speaker 3: how you.

637
00:30:22,481 --> 00:30:25,841
Speaker 1: Do that, you know, and I and again I don't

638
00:30:25,881 --> 00:30:28,921
Speaker 1: know because I never I did it a couple when

639
00:30:29,081 --> 00:30:31,841
Speaker 1: I was at Asian we would do a couple ourselves.

640
00:30:32,241 --> 00:30:34,161
Speaker 1: I would. Let me tell you, I was the worst

641
00:30:34,201 --> 00:30:36,041
Speaker 1: at it, to the point that when I went over

642
00:30:36,201 --> 00:30:39,481
Speaker 1: from Cabramatta to Asian Organized Crime, I was I wasn't

643
00:30:39,481 --> 00:30:41,321
Speaker 1: the commander then I was a chief inspector with this

644
00:30:41,401 --> 00:30:43,841
Speaker 1: amazing team and I said to them, you know, I

645
00:30:43,841 --> 00:30:45,681
Speaker 1: don't have any idea how to dis surveillance. I'm you know,

646
00:30:45,721 --> 00:30:48,681
Speaker 1: I'm been working at a local command and I don't

647
00:30:48,721 --> 00:30:50,520
Speaker 1: know any of this secrets. So he said, oh, we'll

648
00:30:50,601 --> 00:30:52,881
Speaker 1: help you by the end, and I had a team

649
00:30:52,921 --> 00:30:55,401
Speaker 1: of twenty five by the end that it's okay there,

650
00:30:55,401 --> 00:30:58,401
Speaker 1: we're going out. So your position is the McDonald's. I

651
00:30:58,441 --> 00:31:01,001
Speaker 1: would just said, is it the criminal coming here? Is

652
00:31:01,041 --> 00:31:02,961
Speaker 1: that where I need to be? There were no people

653
00:31:03,041 --> 00:31:06,041
Speaker 1: just need lunch later say you're that's what they said.

654
00:31:06,081 --> 00:31:08,121
Speaker 1: It made me away because I was so bad at

655
00:31:08,161 --> 00:31:11,001
Speaker 1: it because I'm a slow driver. Okay, so yeah, I

656
00:31:11,041 --> 00:31:14,721
Speaker 1: was very slow driver. So it was no point even

657
00:31:14,761 --> 00:31:17,241
Speaker 1: when I you know, back in a detective at Cabra

658
00:31:17,241 --> 00:31:19,121
Speaker 1: matter when you know you'd see one of the stolen

659
00:31:19,161 --> 00:31:21,321
Speaker 1: car with one of my usuals in it, I'd go

660
00:31:21,401 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: and I'd be, oh, no, you know, I'd call it,

661
00:31:24,041 --> 00:31:27,761
Speaker 1: you know, in pursuit of a stolen car, and they

662
00:31:27,801 --> 00:31:30,561
Speaker 1: know I'm going to lose this in about one hundred

663
00:31:30,561 --> 00:31:32,681
Speaker 1: meters for sure, because the one who's cheasing them a book.

664
00:31:34,881 --> 00:31:38,041
Speaker 1: I was like driving Miss Daisy, and of course luckily

665
00:31:38,081 --> 00:31:42,641
Speaker 1: I had these amazing highway goals control like Husy, you know,

666
00:31:42,721 --> 00:31:45,841
Speaker 1: way back from Fairfield, and then i'd be waiting in pursuit,

667
00:31:46,441 --> 00:31:48,921
Speaker 1: still in pursuit, like there's a lot of traffic around,

668
00:31:49,321 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 1: and then i'd hear, you know, Hughsy come on the

669
00:31:51,241 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: air and go I got him dead. Or this amazing

670
00:31:54,161 --> 00:31:57,601
Speaker 1: highway patrol bloke at Fairfield who said put a little left, deb,

671
00:31:57,681 --> 00:31:59,841
Speaker 1: I've got him. But I just seen him. And I

672
00:31:59,881 --> 00:32:02,801
Speaker 1: swear this one highway patrol bloke never had a coffee

673
00:32:02,801 --> 00:32:04,921
Speaker 1: cup out of his hand and he never stilled a

674
00:32:05,241 --> 00:32:07,481
Speaker 1: And I'd go and go got them deb and be

675
00:32:07,601 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 1: handcuffed on the ground, and I'd swear he's still got

676
00:32:10,001 --> 00:32:12,801
Speaker 1: his coffee in his hand. I'll you very much.

677
00:32:13,601 --> 00:32:15,841
Speaker 3: Do you think like since you were in the force,

678
00:32:16,041 --> 00:32:18,721
Speaker 3: do you think things have gone better or worse? And

679
00:32:19,121 --> 00:32:21,641
Speaker 3: what you see now from the gangs out there and

680
00:32:21,681 --> 00:32:23,281
Speaker 3: all like that, it's got a lot worse now.

681
00:32:23,561 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: No, I think. I think, like anything, it goes like

682
00:32:26,521 --> 00:32:29,041
Speaker 1: ebbs and flows. So you have if we go back,

683
00:32:29,081 --> 00:32:31,041
Speaker 1: and you know, it's about the moment you live in

684
00:32:31,121 --> 00:32:34,321
Speaker 1: is obviously the worst moment, you know, because you focused

685
00:32:34,321 --> 00:32:36,921
Speaker 1: on it, I guess. But you know, we go right back.

686
00:32:37,041 --> 00:32:39,681
Speaker 1: You know, before it was you know, when we talked

687
00:32:39,681 --> 00:32:42,361
Speaker 1: about the violence of the Asian gangs, Remember that was

688
00:32:42,361 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 1: the focus in the nineties, and then we moved on

689
00:32:44,241 --> 00:32:46,961
Speaker 1: and then it was the focus of the Middle Eastern groups.

690
00:32:47,041 --> 00:32:48,801
Speaker 1: You know, that was in the early two thousands, and

691
00:32:48,801 --> 00:32:51,161
Speaker 1: then you had the focus of the outlaw motorcycle gangs.

692
00:32:51,361 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: And now we're back into the focus of you know,

693
00:32:53,721 --> 00:32:56,441
Speaker 1: organized crime networks or go again with that word. It's

694
00:32:56,721 --> 00:33:00,561
Speaker 1: criminal networks we're seeing again now. So it's just who

695
00:33:01,641 --> 00:33:04,481
Speaker 1: you know, ebbs and flows. It can be whoever takes

696
00:33:04,481 --> 00:33:05,481
Speaker 1: the opportunity. I guess.

697
00:33:05,601 --> 00:33:05,801
Speaker 2: Yeah.

698
00:33:05,881 --> 00:33:07,801
Speaker 3: Would you think with the gone happy now with the gangs,

699
00:33:07,801 --> 00:33:09,041
Speaker 3: it's going to be out of control.

700
00:33:09,761 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 1: That's what happens. I guess when you do all the

701
00:33:11,721 --> 00:33:14,641
Speaker 1: good work and you take all the major targets out

702
00:33:14,641 --> 00:33:16,881
Speaker 1: of play, you know, because all the work the cops

703
00:33:16,881 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 1: have done put all these people behind bars for you know, decades.

704
00:33:20,521 --> 00:33:22,561
Speaker 1: So then you start to see the emergence of the

705
00:33:22,881 --> 00:33:25,881
Speaker 1: next generation and they come through and those that probably

706
00:33:26,361 --> 00:33:28,361
Speaker 1: haven't got because the leadership's all gone for what of

707
00:33:28,361 --> 00:33:31,081
Speaker 1: a better word. And I do think from what I'm

708
00:33:31,081 --> 00:33:33,361
Speaker 1: seeing and the cops are doing just such an amazing

709
00:33:33,401 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 1: job to keep its disruption happening. It's this and I

710
00:33:37,241 --> 00:33:39,481
Speaker 1: don't know whether it's fueled by the different drugs have changed,

711
00:33:39,521 --> 00:33:41,240
Speaker 1: because you know, we had the real back in with

712
00:33:41,281 --> 00:33:43,681
Speaker 1: the Asians. It was like I definitely don't use drugs.

713
00:33:44,081 --> 00:33:46,441
Speaker 1: It was a non drug thing. And I think even

714
00:33:46,441 --> 00:33:49,561
Speaker 1: outloor motorcycle gangs were much the same. And it is

715
00:33:49,601 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: it and I don't have the answer, but we know

716
00:33:51,521 --> 00:33:55,121
Speaker 1: we're seeing, you know, a huge increase in it appears

717
00:33:55,201 --> 00:33:57,801
Speaker 1: like the stuff you see with young kids stealing cars.

718
00:33:57,801 --> 00:34:02,321
Speaker 1: That whole is ice having this huge change in mental

719
00:34:02,401 --> 00:34:05,561
Speaker 1: dynamics about how you do things, and is it more

720
00:34:05,601 --> 00:34:09,361
Speaker 1: about going out there and putting things on social media

721
00:34:09,561 --> 00:34:13,281
Speaker 1: with notoriety. You know, I worry that that's all about

722
00:34:13,321 --> 00:34:15,761
Speaker 1: the five minutes of fame, and I'll get it. However,

723
00:34:15,801 --> 00:34:19,681
Speaker 1: I get it. And again I've moved on from that world,

724
00:34:19,721 --> 00:34:22,361
Speaker 1: of course, but I still I you know, of course

725
00:34:22,401 --> 00:34:25,161
Speaker 1: you read it and you say, how would I deal

726
00:34:25,241 --> 00:34:27,881
Speaker 1: with that? And what I see with the cops, you know,

727
00:34:28,241 --> 00:34:31,721
Speaker 1: we're so lucky, so lucky in yourself house, the best

728
00:34:31,721 --> 00:34:34,841
Speaker 1: cops right around. I've got colleagues around the world, and

729
00:34:35,361 --> 00:34:38,041
Speaker 1: I think, what never, what I'm I'm amazed at what

730
00:34:38,081 --> 00:34:41,440
Speaker 1: I get inspires me is they never get beaten. They

731
00:34:41,481 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: never give up. They never say this is too hard.

732
00:34:43,601 --> 00:34:45,841
Speaker 1: They go, no, no, We'll just approach it a different way.

733
00:34:45,881 --> 00:34:49,361
Speaker 1: We'll come up with new new strategies. And so we

734
00:34:49,481 --> 00:34:52,161
Speaker 1: never stop. The word flag never goes up, and we

735
00:34:52,361 --> 00:34:55,601
Speaker 1: just we pivot and we look at what's a bit

736
00:34:55,721 --> 00:34:58,881
Speaker 1: like those amazing cops did at Raptor when you know

737
00:34:58,921 --> 00:35:00,881
Speaker 1: I went there and not no, you know, I knew

738
00:35:01,001 --> 00:35:03,321
Speaker 1: Asians back to front, and I'd had seven years at

739
00:35:03,361 --> 00:35:05,841
Speaker 1: Middle East, and so bike was a new world. And

740
00:35:06,161 --> 00:35:09,361
Speaker 1: I just asked these amazing commanders of the different units

741
00:35:09,361 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: to you know, just teach me teach me about what's

742
00:35:12,481 --> 00:35:15,401
Speaker 1: a bikey, what's that business model? And then let's just

743
00:35:15,801 --> 00:35:19,681
Speaker 1: go about destroying it all. And it was systematic.

744
00:35:19,881 --> 00:35:20,081
Speaker 3: You know.

745
00:35:20,121 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: They had a later menu of about forty different strategies

746
00:35:24,001 --> 00:35:26,361
Speaker 1: that they said, well, this is the problem, and so

747
00:35:26,481 --> 00:35:28,361
Speaker 1: what we're going to drag out today. If we're going

748
00:35:28,361 --> 00:35:32,201
Speaker 1: to drag out all right, a number forty two, twenty six, sixteen,

749
00:35:32,401 --> 00:35:35,281
Speaker 1: eighteen and two the strategies we're going to apply to

750
00:35:35,481 --> 00:35:38,121
Speaker 1: this group, because that's what their business model was. It

751
00:35:38,161 --> 00:35:41,641
Speaker 1: was quite unique and and it worked. And I think

752
00:35:41,641 --> 00:35:43,681
Speaker 1: that's what cops do today. They look at it the

753
00:35:43,721 --> 00:35:46,481
Speaker 1: problem and then they they very good at being flexible

754
00:35:46,521 --> 00:35:47,801
Speaker 1: and pivoting to get an outcome.

755
00:35:48,321 --> 00:35:50,561
Speaker 3: Did you ever get like, was it ever difficult going to

756
00:35:50,601 --> 00:35:53,001
Speaker 3: another state to get help from like the Victorian police

757
00:35:53,081 --> 00:35:54,161
Speaker 3: or gold Compolice?

758
00:35:54,401 --> 00:35:56,721
Speaker 2: Was everybody came together to.

759
00:35:56,681 --> 00:36:00,081
Speaker 1: Help absolutely, In fact, the best thing I think we did.

760
00:36:00,201 --> 00:36:03,641
Speaker 1: And I look back, you know, just again what happened morphed.

761
00:36:03,641 --> 00:36:07,361
Speaker 1: I guessed in a way it was keeping away the

762
00:36:07,401 --> 00:36:10,721
Speaker 1: bureaucrats out of it and making our relationships a lot

763
00:36:10,761 --> 00:36:13,641
Speaker 1: of operational. We set up this thing. It was a

764
00:36:13,721 --> 00:36:15,601
Speaker 1: national task force. We called it which is just a

765
00:36:15,601 --> 00:36:17,681
Speaker 1: fancy We're just saying, really we get together for a chat.

766
00:36:18,321 --> 00:36:20,761
Speaker 1: But what we did is my counterparts all around the

767
00:36:20,801 --> 00:36:24,041
Speaker 1: country would get together and it would be purely operationally focused.

768
00:36:24,561 --> 00:36:26,721
Speaker 1: Leave the egos at the door, and we'd say, what

769
00:36:27,121 --> 00:36:28,881
Speaker 1: you know, what problems have you got. For example, we

770
00:36:28,921 --> 00:36:32,841
Speaker 1: had this fantastic consorting legislation, so South Australia would say

771
00:36:32,921 --> 00:36:35,401
Speaker 1: we want that. Okay, this is and I'd said, We'd

772
00:36:35,401 --> 00:36:36,681
Speaker 1: send it to them and say this is how we

773
00:36:36,761 --> 00:36:39,441
Speaker 1: drafted it. You've got to get through your parliament. But

774
00:36:39,521 --> 00:36:42,601
Speaker 1: I say, I love your firearms prohibition orders. Can I

775
00:36:42,641 --> 00:36:45,481
Speaker 1: have that? Yeah, I'll send it up. So we did

776
00:36:45,521 --> 00:36:50,041
Speaker 1: this whole range of sharing because no one is you know,

777
00:36:50,041 --> 00:36:52,721
Speaker 1: if you act in a silo, you'll fail. It's about

778
00:36:52,761 --> 00:36:56,441
Speaker 1: sharing crooks, you know, it's about keeping us relevant, keeping

779
00:36:56,521 --> 00:37:00,721
Speaker 1: us up to date and everyone. There's these thousands of

780
00:37:00,761 --> 00:37:04,361
Speaker 1: fantastic minds out there, and so it's not like one

781
00:37:04,361 --> 00:37:07,001
Speaker 1: personal company idea. It can be. In fact, the way

782
00:37:07,041 --> 00:37:11,361
Speaker 1: we destroyed the dismantled the clubhouse and the biking clubhouses

783
00:37:12,121 --> 00:37:15,361
Speaker 1: was done by a sergeant. A sergeant came up and said,

784
00:37:15,521 --> 00:37:19,041
Speaker 1: I found this old law from nineteen forty three. I

785
00:37:19,081 --> 00:37:21,401
Speaker 1: think if we got it tweaked to bring it up

786
00:37:21,401 --> 00:37:24,401
Speaker 1: to today, it'll work. We said, yep. Well, when I

787
00:37:24,401 --> 00:37:25,841
Speaker 1: got there, I think there was one hundred and twenty

788
00:37:25,841 --> 00:37:28,881
Speaker 1: four out of motorcycle gang clubhouses in the state by

789
00:37:28,881 --> 00:37:29,521
Speaker 1: the time I left.

790
00:37:29,521 --> 00:37:30,721
Speaker 3: Else three wow.

791
00:37:31,201 --> 00:37:33,441
Speaker 1: So and they were old school, you know. One was

792
00:37:33,441 --> 00:37:36,961
Speaker 1: the Gladiators, which was an amazing clubhouse, and we you know,

793
00:37:37,001 --> 00:37:39,721
Speaker 1: I kept trying to convince the old timers of the Gladiators, like,

794
00:37:39,881 --> 00:37:42,121
Speaker 1: give up the one percent, guys, like this is amazing.

795
00:37:42,161 --> 00:37:45,081
Speaker 1: It was like an rasel had a pool I'm think

796
00:37:45,081 --> 00:37:49,641
Speaker 1: ground pool, huge, with tiny little mosaic tiles in the

797
00:37:49,681 --> 00:37:54,561
Speaker 1: pool of their insignia, you know, Gladiats river put across

798
00:37:54,601 --> 00:37:57,841
Speaker 1: a fortune. But it was beautiful. I get saying, guys,

799
00:37:57,841 --> 00:37:59,681
Speaker 1: give up the one percent, be a social club and

800
00:37:59,681 --> 00:38:03,041
Speaker 1: we'll leave you alone. They didn't like I think they

801
00:38:03,081 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 1: were tempted, but it was that stupid idea of it's

802
00:38:07,521 --> 00:38:09,641
Speaker 1: the tradition. You know, Well, then, while.

803
00:38:09,481 --> 00:38:10,921
Speaker 3: You is it true that you turned up at one

804
00:38:10,921 --> 00:38:13,201
Speaker 3: of the baking clubs and a nice frock and hay Hills.

805
00:38:13,481 --> 00:38:17,241
Speaker 1: I always did. That's how I dress.

806
00:38:17,361 --> 00:38:19,321
Speaker 3: Well, you so you never went in any of the

807
00:38:19,361 --> 00:38:21,721
Speaker 3: Raptor gear or anything like that. You just would go

808
00:38:21,841 --> 00:38:22,641
Speaker 3: in your yeah.

809
00:38:22,641 --> 00:38:26,881
Speaker 1: Would me comes through the front door. Really, I had

810
00:38:26,921 --> 00:38:29,161
Speaker 1: amazing cops to do that. But what I would do

811
00:38:29,201 --> 00:38:32,521
Speaker 1: with them, which was I think important, is not for

812
00:38:32,601 --> 00:38:34,361
Speaker 1: the biker, so I couldn't care less about them. But

813
00:38:34,801 --> 00:38:37,081
Speaker 1: when these the Raptor guys are out there in highly

814
00:38:37,161 --> 00:38:40,761
Speaker 1: volatile potentially that are like is we know everyone's usually

815
00:38:40,801 --> 00:38:43,601
Speaker 1: often got guns or they're not propensity to violence. So

816
00:38:43,681 --> 00:38:46,481
Speaker 1: it was done like a military operation. So I'd go

817
00:38:46,561 --> 00:38:48,801
Speaker 1: out and it was more about saying to them at

818
00:38:48,841 --> 00:38:52,881
Speaker 1: the end Hugh guys did an amazing job, and then

819
00:38:52,921 --> 00:38:55,441
Speaker 1: the investigators would come in. So it was really just

820
00:38:55,481 --> 00:38:57,681
Speaker 1: about you know, I'm not real good at sitting behind

821
00:38:57,681 --> 00:38:59,521
Speaker 1: a desk to I mean, I know that was my role.

822
00:38:59,681 --> 00:39:01,401
Speaker 1: You know, you move up. Do you have to do more?

823
00:39:02,721 --> 00:39:05,561
Speaker 1: You management, I guess, but I was never I never

824
00:39:05,641 --> 00:39:08,161
Speaker 1: lost the hunger to be on the road, and so

825
00:39:08,241 --> 00:39:10,561
Speaker 1: although I couldn't do it myself, perhaps I'd go out

826
00:39:10,881 --> 00:39:13,201
Speaker 1: and live through them. And it was You're right. There

827
00:39:13,241 --> 00:39:15,321
Speaker 1: was this one where we did there was the Nomad's

828
00:39:15,361 --> 00:39:18,041
Speaker 1: at weather Or Park and there was a photograph it

829
00:39:18,121 --> 00:39:19,801
Speaker 1: was just the media were allowed to come and I

830
00:39:19,961 --> 00:39:22,761
Speaker 1: was in a bright yellow dress, and I remember someone

831
00:39:22,801 --> 00:39:24,641
Speaker 1: from the media said to me, so, was that a

832
00:39:24,681 --> 00:39:27,721
Speaker 1: clever tactic? I went what they said, like you you

833
00:39:27,761 --> 00:39:30,081
Speaker 1: know that day for their operation for you to you know,

834
00:39:30,161 --> 00:39:33,201
Speaker 1: they're all in black, the raptors in black, bikes are

835
00:39:33,201 --> 00:39:35,481
Speaker 1: in black, and you're in bright yellow. And no, I

836
00:39:35,681 --> 00:39:40,521
Speaker 1: was just Friday. We're yellow. There was no planning. And

837
00:39:40,561 --> 00:39:42,001
Speaker 1: you could have got me any other day and I'd

838
00:39:42,001 --> 00:39:43,041
Speaker 1: be in a purple.

839
00:39:44,161 --> 00:39:46,841
Speaker 3: Wow, because I read that rook and I was that's interesting,

840
00:39:46,881 --> 00:39:49,961
Speaker 3: that's and also I read or too that did you

841
00:39:50,041 --> 00:39:51,641
Speaker 3: carry your glock in your humbag?

842
00:39:52,161 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, well yes, because back in the day women were

843
00:39:56,481 --> 00:40:01,241
Speaker 1: issued handbags to carry that gunning. And look, I had

844
00:40:01,241 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 1: it a small discrete as well. But yeah, I probably

845
00:40:04,481 --> 00:40:07,361
Speaker 1: can say it it wasn't It's probably not. It was old.

846
00:40:07,441 --> 00:40:09,121
Speaker 1: It wasn't a glock. Actually it was back in the day.

847
00:40:09,121 --> 00:40:12,281
Speaker 1: It was a Smith and Wesson. So the clock probably

848
00:40:12,281 --> 00:40:14,641
Speaker 1: wouldn't fit in the size handbag I had that. And

849
00:40:14,761 --> 00:40:17,241
Speaker 1: sometimes you know, and I remember.

850
00:40:17,321 --> 00:40:18,641
Speaker 3: So you didn't like to have it around your waist

851
00:40:18,681 --> 00:40:20,201
Speaker 3: or anything like that. You like to carry it in

852
00:40:20,201 --> 00:40:22,481
Speaker 3: the Hamburg or which just wasn't for a police officer

853
00:40:22,521 --> 00:40:23,601
Speaker 3: to do that like a female.

854
00:40:23,721 --> 00:40:25,881
Speaker 1: No, No, they all know the police carry it, you

855
00:40:25,921 --> 00:40:29,281
Speaker 1: know absolutely, you know on their body. No, it was

856
00:40:29,401 --> 00:40:31,481
Speaker 1: just a habit. It was just it was just how

857
00:40:31,521 --> 00:40:33,361
Speaker 1: we used to do it back in the day.

858
00:40:33,681 --> 00:40:34,081
Speaker 3: Wow.

859
00:40:34,161 --> 00:40:37,161
Speaker 1: And even when I you know, things changed of course

860
00:40:37,201 --> 00:40:39,401
Speaker 1: with you know, operational health and safety and all that

861
00:40:39,441 --> 00:40:41,801
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. But back in the day, you know,

862
00:40:41,881 --> 00:40:45,681
Speaker 1: that's where women worshiped. We were worshiped handbags, and it

863
00:40:45,761 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: was just a hangover from that and I was much

864
00:40:49,201 --> 00:40:50,761
Speaker 1: you know, we go even when I went to the

865
00:40:50,841 --> 00:40:53,041
Speaker 1: range sometime, I mean, poor old some of the weapons

866
00:40:53,081 --> 00:40:55,480
Speaker 1: instructors probably would be cringing now. But this is back.

867
00:40:55,521 --> 00:40:57,721
Speaker 1: You know, we draw lines in the standard. Things have changed.

868
00:40:57,881 --> 00:41:00,761
Speaker 1: You couldn't do it now, absolutely, and you wouldn't. But

869
00:41:01,001 --> 00:41:03,361
Speaker 1: you know they say you have to bring whatever you

870
00:41:03,561 --> 00:41:05,281
Speaker 1: carry your gun, like if you have an ankle, whole

871
00:41:05,281 --> 00:41:12,001
Speaker 1: store or side arm, you have to. And I mean

872
00:41:12,121 --> 00:41:13,841
Speaker 1: there was some really good sports. This is going back,

873
00:41:13,921 --> 00:41:15,761
Speaker 1: you know, you know, the eighties, and so there was

874
00:41:15,921 --> 00:41:18,041
Speaker 1: really some good sports. You know, when you have to

875
00:41:18,041 --> 00:41:19,481
Speaker 1: go for you because you have to do your shoot

876
00:41:19,601 --> 00:41:22,881
Speaker 1: training and all that, And there was one particular fellow

877
00:41:22,961 --> 00:41:25,601
Speaker 1: from who was very you know, straight down the line

878
00:41:25,601 --> 00:41:27,401
Speaker 1: and as it had to be, and he would say,

879
00:41:27,961 --> 00:41:30,801
Speaker 1: what do you normally carry your your firearmy and I

880
00:41:30,801 --> 00:41:34,361
Speaker 1: said my handbag went it looked at me and went outraged,

881
00:41:34,681 --> 00:41:37,281
Speaker 1: and then he said I can't. I can't do this.

882
00:41:37,361 --> 00:41:40,641
Speaker 1: And one of the other weapons instructors who knew had

883
00:41:40,681 --> 00:41:43,201
Speaker 1: been I've known it for years, said yeah, well when

884
00:41:43,241 --> 00:41:45,641
Speaker 1: she comes along, we just go, you know, stand back

885
00:41:45,641 --> 00:41:49,841
Speaker 1: from the range reholster rehandbag and he's going, nah, I can't,

886
00:41:49,921 --> 00:41:52,161
Speaker 1: I can't do it. So one of the guys the

887
00:41:52,201 --> 00:41:54,481
Speaker 1: old school who knew me, he said, I'll step you

888
00:41:54,481 --> 00:41:56,881
Speaker 1: in and do this right, I'll just dem shit And

889
00:41:56,921 --> 00:42:00,121
Speaker 1: he would say reholster rehandbag said can I just leave

890
00:42:00,161 --> 00:42:01,481
Speaker 1: it out? It'd be a lot And I said, no,

891
00:42:02,361 --> 00:42:03,361
Speaker 1: you have to put it back in.

892
00:42:03,441 --> 00:42:04,401
Speaker 3: What can so?

893
00:42:04,561 --> 00:42:04,881
Speaker 1: Yeah?

894
00:42:05,081 --> 00:42:08,281
Speaker 3: Wow, because you'd like to be from what I can

895
00:42:08,281 --> 00:42:10,481
Speaker 3: see hands on you know where any operation that goes on,

896
00:42:10,921 --> 00:42:13,881
Speaker 3: So not so much words or you know, like to

897
00:42:13,881 --> 00:42:16,921
Speaker 3: tell me too much, but what would go in to

898
00:42:17,041 --> 00:42:19,801
Speaker 3: a day where you're going to do when you get

899
00:42:19,841 --> 00:42:22,641
Speaker 3: straightforced raptor to do a raid? What goes into that,

900
00:42:22,721 --> 00:42:25,361
Speaker 3: like the preparation and the day before.

901
00:42:25,721 --> 00:42:26,881
Speaker 2: How would you plan all that?

902
00:42:27,001 --> 00:42:29,081
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, it's like a military operation.

903
00:42:29,521 --> 00:42:32,521
Speaker 1: It's exactly like there's you gather all your intelligence, you

904
00:42:32,601 --> 00:42:36,281
Speaker 1: do it's all risk based, all risk assessments and about

905
00:42:36,561 --> 00:42:38,881
Speaker 1: what's the best way of entry. How do we do this?

906
00:42:38,921 --> 00:42:41,561
Speaker 1: Do we get them? You know, what's the best way?

907
00:42:41,641 --> 00:42:45,121
Speaker 1: It's safety is the most important getting them arrest, absolutely,

908
00:42:45,161 --> 00:42:47,801
Speaker 1: but behind the scenes is protecting your officers. You know

909
00:42:47,841 --> 00:42:51,281
Speaker 1: you can get them another day. It's about protecting your officers.

910
00:42:51,721 --> 00:42:54,641
Speaker 1: So it's a military operation. Everyone has their role. Everyone

911
00:42:54,721 --> 00:42:57,321
Speaker 1: is assigned. There's a command, there's a field commander, there's

912
00:42:57,361 --> 00:42:59,321
Speaker 1: someone out in the field. There's a commander over all

913
00:42:59,481 --> 00:43:02,841
Speaker 1: the operation. And they have to see the approval so

914
00:43:02,921 --> 00:43:05,561
Speaker 1: they you know, the team will put together the the

915
00:43:05,561 --> 00:43:08,081
Speaker 1: plan for one of the better word it goes up

916
00:43:08,081 --> 00:43:11,321
Speaker 1: to the inspector. The inspector reviews that. That then goes

917
00:43:11,401 --> 00:43:14,601
Speaker 1: to the superintendent. The superintendent was another run over it

918
00:43:14,601 --> 00:43:16,521
Speaker 1: and then it goes up even it can go up

919
00:43:16,561 --> 00:43:18,601
Speaker 1: even higher, and then it has to go out to

920
00:43:18,641 --> 00:43:20,521
Speaker 1: the air. If you're a specialist area to the area

921
00:43:20,521 --> 00:43:22,961
Speaker 1: that you're going to do so they're happy, everyone's aware

922
00:43:23,641 --> 00:43:28,601
Speaker 1: and all that it's really done. And when it depends

923
00:43:28,641 --> 00:43:30,721
Speaker 1: on the size operations, some could be like you know,

924
00:43:30,721 --> 00:43:33,001
Speaker 1: when we did Kindred, which was a big import job

925
00:43:33,081 --> 00:43:37,561
Speaker 1: involving bikes and Asians and started with tobacco, Tamura leading

926
00:43:37,641 --> 00:43:40,561
Speaker 1: up to a big import the planning of that because

927
00:43:40,561 --> 00:43:42,561
Speaker 1: the evidence had been gathered, you know, it was ready

928
00:43:42,561 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 1: to go. That planning went for weeks getting it all right.

929
00:43:46,481 --> 00:43:49,201
Speaker 1: When there's multiples, brothers for life were exactly the same

930
00:43:49,201 --> 00:43:51,121
Speaker 1: when we had to get it was important to get

931
00:43:51,201 --> 00:43:53,521
Speaker 1: so they didn't. We didn't lose evidence particularly, you know.

932
00:43:53,761 --> 00:43:57,241
Speaker 1: So it was done like a well oiled machine all together,

933
00:43:57,401 --> 00:44:00,121
Speaker 1: all on time and entry all together. Or it can

934
00:44:00,161 --> 00:44:03,321
Speaker 1: be as simple as the day before if it's you know,

935
00:44:03,601 --> 00:44:07,641
Speaker 1: a simpler thing. I mean, you know, we did one

936
00:44:07,681 --> 00:44:10,921
Speaker 1: on the Gypsy Jokers when they a bit of a

937
00:44:10,921 --> 00:44:13,121
Speaker 1: trick of them. They wrapped. He had come to me,

938
00:44:13,761 --> 00:44:15,721
Speaker 1: and cops are pretty good at getting over time as well.

939
00:44:15,761 --> 00:44:17,081
Speaker 1: You know, there's a lot of things in the back

940
00:44:17,121 --> 00:44:19,201
Speaker 1: of their mind as well, and they came to me

941
00:44:19,241 --> 00:44:21,761
Speaker 1: and said, we want to do the Gypsy Jokers over,

942
00:44:21,881 --> 00:44:25,521
Speaker 1: who really weren't a big threatening they are real like

943
00:44:25,681 --> 00:44:28,441
Speaker 1: Dad's army by this stage. And they had a lot

944
00:44:28,481 --> 00:44:31,321
Speaker 1: of caravans on their clubhouse site where old gypsy jokers

945
00:44:31,361 --> 00:44:33,481
Speaker 1: would you know? And I said, ah, They said, we

946
00:44:33,561 --> 00:44:37,201
Speaker 1: believe we've got information that there's a firearm there, and

947
00:44:37,281 --> 00:44:39,761
Speaker 1: firearms in the hands of any bike's not good. And

948
00:44:39,801 --> 00:44:43,561
Speaker 1: I said, well, it's four o'clock. We don't want to

949
00:44:43,601 --> 00:44:45,121
Speaker 1: do it tonight, you know. More is we like to

950
00:44:45,161 --> 00:44:48,481
Speaker 1: do early in the morning. Tomorrow's better day. And I

951
00:44:48,521 --> 00:44:51,001
Speaker 1: could see them like you, I could see them like

952
00:44:51,001 --> 00:44:52,281
Speaker 1: look at me, like she won't let us do it

953
00:44:52,281 --> 00:44:54,281
Speaker 1: tonight or over time. She wants us to do it tomorrow.

954
00:44:54,481 --> 00:44:56,521
Speaker 1: And they've gone away, they've obviously had a bit of

955
00:44:56,561 --> 00:45:00,361
Speaker 1: a gathering, and then they've wrung me and said, we've

956
00:45:00,361 --> 00:45:03,121
Speaker 1: forgot to tell you. We've got to tell you they've

957
00:45:03,121 --> 00:45:05,121
Speaker 1: actually done a kidnapping and we think they've got a

958
00:45:05,161 --> 00:45:08,881
Speaker 1: female hostage. What why do you think to tell me this?

959
00:45:09,561 --> 00:45:12,480
Speaker 1: Or yes, they've held her against her will. I said,

960
00:45:12,801 --> 00:45:15,401
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's what didn't What didn't the lead

961
00:45:15,481 --> 00:45:17,921
Speaker 1: with that, you know? So it was okay, we're going

962
00:45:18,001 --> 00:45:19,361
Speaker 1: to do this tonight. We've got to get to save

963
00:45:19,441 --> 00:45:21,641
Speaker 1: the female and I said, you know, you say the

964
00:45:21,721 --> 00:45:25,121
Speaker 1: orders were all done very beautifully. You know, risk assessments high,

965
00:45:25,481 --> 00:45:27,881
Speaker 1: blah blah. Now they go, I said, Ring, contact me

966
00:45:27,881 --> 00:45:30,321
Speaker 1: as soon as you're in. Make sure everything's safe. Boss.

967
00:45:30,361 --> 00:45:32,961
Speaker 1: We're in, safe and sound, all account for everyone's arrested,

968
00:45:33,041 --> 00:45:36,201
Speaker 1: no issues, I said, But the female, yes, she's there,

969
00:45:36,921 --> 00:45:41,241
Speaker 1: safe and well and we've recovered her. No issues. In fact,

970
00:45:41,561 --> 00:45:44,041
Speaker 1: the vet's just giving her a run over. I went on.

971
00:45:44,801 --> 00:45:47,041
Speaker 1: He said, Vett, we've got a vet here just to

972
00:45:47,121 --> 00:45:49,681
Speaker 1: check her over. I said, what are you talking about?

973
00:45:49,721 --> 00:45:52,521
Speaker 1: They said, oh, we did forget to tell you that

974
00:45:52,521 --> 00:45:56,161
Speaker 1: the female is an our packer and had been stolen

975
00:45:56,201 --> 00:45:59,121
Speaker 1: from an adjoining farm. But you know what, the funny

976
00:45:59,201 --> 00:46:01,201
Speaker 1: we got. We got the gun and the olt pack

977
00:46:01,281 --> 00:46:04,841
Speaker 1: up and we turned and Channel seven and I think

978
00:46:04,841 --> 00:46:08,641
Speaker 1: it was Robervardier at the time. Channel seven was loving

979
00:46:08,681 --> 00:46:10,761
Speaker 1: this story, you know, and they even wanted to go

980
00:46:10,801 --> 00:46:13,521
Speaker 1: and film the re union of our packer back with

981
00:46:13,561 --> 00:46:16,281
Speaker 1: her loving family, which was fantastic, and my family were

982
00:46:16,281 --> 00:46:18,401
Speaker 1: happy to do it. You know, she's loved. Her name

983
00:46:18,481 --> 00:46:21,881
Speaker 1: was Chloe. She's been in return. The worst thing was

984
00:46:21,921 --> 00:46:25,241
Speaker 1: my fantastic colleague who's now an Assistant commission of Scottie

985
00:46:25,241 --> 00:46:28,441
Speaker 1: Cook in charge of was my dear colleague running organized crime.

986
00:46:28,561 --> 00:46:31,001
Speaker 1: And they'd got a big job just just done that day,

987
00:46:31,281 --> 00:46:34,921
Speaker 1: like big kilos, great job. They got bumped from the

988
00:46:34,921 --> 00:46:39,241
Speaker 1: front page and we with Chloe. Chloe was a headline.

989
00:46:40,321 --> 00:46:42,161
Speaker 1: The kilo job got nothing that he rang me and

990
00:46:42,201 --> 00:46:46,001
Speaker 1: said you had to steal it with because up me

991
00:46:46,081 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: with an outpack. Now you have those good lighthearted as well.

992
00:46:50,681 --> 00:46:52,921
Speaker 3: Have you ever put any any of your team into

993
00:46:52,921 --> 00:46:55,401
Speaker 3: on the cover to go into any of the into

994
00:46:55,641 --> 00:46:57,681
Speaker 3: any of the games to get more info than you

995
00:46:57,721 --> 00:46:58,801
Speaker 3: want you need it?

996
00:46:59,001 --> 00:47:02,321
Speaker 2: Have you ever done that before? No, you wouldn't do it.

997
00:47:02,361 --> 00:47:04,561
Speaker 1: Look, there's a whole lot of COVID operations get done,

998
00:47:04,601 --> 00:47:07,681
Speaker 1: but I not in my world, not not what I managed.

999
00:47:07,721 --> 00:47:10,681
Speaker 1: If you know, there's there's there's a whole. I won't

1000
00:47:10,681 --> 00:47:13,081
Speaker 1: go into methodology, but there's a whole. You know, police

1001
00:47:13,121 --> 00:47:16,521
Speaker 1: have are only limited by their imagination and ensuring safety.

1002
00:47:16,521 --> 00:47:19,001
Speaker 1: There's a whole you know that sort of thing. So

1003
00:47:20,521 --> 00:47:23,161
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, at my my undercovered days, was put

1004
00:47:23,161 --> 00:47:24,521
Speaker 1: a T shirt or a cop and sent them up

1005
00:47:24,521 --> 00:47:28,561
Speaker 1: the street. In fact, in fact they you know a

1006
00:47:28,601 --> 00:47:30,121
Speaker 1: number of times I tried to sell to me and

1007
00:47:30,161 --> 00:47:33,601
Speaker 1: then that because I'd look, I really and then they

1008
00:47:33,641 --> 00:47:35,641
Speaker 1: look up and go, oh it's madam, sorry, we did

1009
00:47:35,881 --> 00:47:37,401
Speaker 1: just looked at your money, so I said I was

1010
00:47:37,441 --> 00:47:39,881
Speaker 1: buying something to eat, like I wasn't buying you drug.

1011
00:47:41,361 --> 00:47:44,201
Speaker 2: So but by now, like you're in straightboards, wrapped up.

1012
00:47:44,761 --> 00:47:47,081
Speaker 3: Your objective was to clean up the place yet to

1013
00:47:47,081 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 3: clean up from all the baking gangs and all like that.

1014
00:47:49,721 --> 00:47:52,481
Speaker 3: Do you do you think you did that before you retired?

1015
00:47:52,521 --> 00:47:54,081
Speaker 3: You think you did it? You know the job you

1016
00:47:54,521 --> 00:47:55,121
Speaker 3: went in to do.

1017
00:47:55,321 --> 00:47:58,081
Speaker 1: Oh, I think not me, but I think the team absolutely.

1018
00:47:58,201 --> 00:48:00,721
Speaker 1: And there's a number of things that you could measure.

1019
00:48:00,961 --> 00:48:03,441
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they're resilient and then got a

1020
00:48:03,481 --> 00:48:05,641
Speaker 1: brand that's been going since you know, the sixties, so

1021
00:48:05,681 --> 00:48:08,601
Speaker 1: they can come in. But I definitely think when I

1022
00:48:08,641 --> 00:48:13,321
Speaker 1: retired that Raptor had taken control, for example, and I

1023
00:48:13,721 --> 00:48:17,121
Speaker 1: look at the Tangibles T one and twenty clubhouses down

1024
00:48:17,121 --> 00:48:20,361
Speaker 1: to three. You know, firearms prohibition orders were.

1025
00:48:21,121 --> 00:48:21,801
Speaker 2: Just new South Wales.

1026
00:48:21,881 --> 00:48:24,561
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, just new. But it might have spread

1027
00:48:24,601 --> 00:48:27,721
Speaker 1: across the thing. But they couldn't go into licensed premises

1028
00:48:27,761 --> 00:48:31,001
Speaker 1: wearing colors. National runs. There hadn't been a national run

1029
00:48:31,041 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: since twenty fourteen in New South Wales other states. Most

1030
00:48:34,481 --> 00:48:38,201
Speaker 1: states were okay, some states didn't adopt the consorting legislation.

1031
00:48:38,601 --> 00:48:41,561
Speaker 1: So not having a national run since twenty fourteen, whether

1032
00:48:41,561 --> 00:48:43,001
Speaker 1: they all get on their bikes and you know, drive

1033
00:48:43,041 --> 00:48:46,121
Speaker 1: down the highway was a huge win. With the senior

1034
00:48:46,441 --> 00:48:49,001
Speaker 1: the senior levels all went offshore, and as we've read

1035
00:48:49,001 --> 00:48:51,401
Speaker 1: about and everyone knows, they all went overseas, which left

1036
00:48:51,521 --> 00:48:54,361
Speaker 1: you know that then gave gives us opportunities because how

1037
00:48:54,401 --> 00:48:56,521
Speaker 1: do they communicate, you know, that's all they have to

1038
00:48:56,521 --> 00:49:00,241
Speaker 1: rely on dummies back on shore. The whole range of

1039
00:49:00,281 --> 00:49:03,961
Speaker 1: tangible examples was and we ticked them off. You know

1040
00:49:04,441 --> 00:49:07,841
Speaker 1: they're having looking side by side with the taxation department

1041
00:49:08,001 --> 00:49:11,081
Speaker 1: in our office was fantastic. So if we would seize

1042
00:49:11,241 --> 00:49:13,281
Speaker 1: a million dollars, for example, you have to go through

1043
00:49:13,321 --> 00:49:17,001
Speaker 1: a whole range of processes charging get in before courts,

1044
00:49:17,001 --> 00:49:18,841
Speaker 1: and then they might come along and say, well, Arnie

1045
00:49:18,881 --> 00:49:20,641
Speaker 1: Mabel died and left it to me in and the

1046
00:49:20,681 --> 00:49:24,001
Speaker 1: onus was on us to prove that Arnie Mabel didn't

1047
00:49:24,001 --> 00:49:26,321
Speaker 1: give him the money. You know. So often so those

1048
00:49:26,441 --> 00:49:30,761
Speaker 1: things the taxation office of the person we had with

1049
00:49:30,841 --> 00:49:32,401
Speaker 1: us would say, well, hang on, let me just check.

1050
00:49:32,401 --> 00:49:34,601
Speaker 1: Oh no, they've got a tax set. We'll just take it.

1051
00:49:34,681 --> 00:49:37,721
Speaker 1: So all he gave was a receipt, so you know,

1052
00:49:37,841 --> 00:49:40,401
Speaker 1: in a way, so all of those things that we

1053
00:49:40,441 --> 00:49:43,601
Speaker 1: were able to put together. In fact, I left on

1054
00:49:43,641 --> 00:49:46,441
Speaker 1: a high. I went over to America in twenty nineteen.

1055
00:49:46,481 --> 00:49:50,241
Speaker 1: There's an international conference where law enforcement officers get together

1056
00:49:50,281 --> 00:49:54,401
Speaker 1: and in a world world sort of conference to exchange ideas,

1057
00:49:55,201 --> 00:49:56,881
Speaker 1: and I went over there for that with a number

1058
00:49:56,881 --> 00:49:59,641
Speaker 1: of Raptor when over they were presenting, and how proud

1059
00:49:59,761 --> 00:50:01,801
Speaker 1: was I to be able to be on behalf of

1060
00:50:01,881 --> 00:50:05,521
Speaker 1: Raptor in September of twenty nineteen to accept on their

1061
00:50:05,561 --> 00:50:09,801
Speaker 1: behalf the World Achievement Award in Best Practice in taking

1062
00:50:09,881 --> 00:50:12,401
Speaker 1: down Outlaw motorcycle gang. So it's not just me saying

1063
00:50:12,561 --> 00:50:14,961
Speaker 1: they did a great job, aren't they great? Here's the examples.

1064
00:50:15,361 --> 00:50:19,721
Speaker 1: The World Fraternity of Law Enforcement Officers recognized that Raptors

1065
00:50:19,721 --> 00:50:20,801
Speaker 1: best practice in the world.

1066
00:50:21,441 --> 00:50:23,721
Speaker 3: Did you work closely with any of the other gang

1067
00:50:23,721 --> 00:50:25,681
Speaker 3: squads over the world to get their ideas?

1068
00:50:25,801 --> 00:50:28,081
Speaker 1: Yeah? Absolutely. I have to say we were leaders in

1069
00:50:28,121 --> 00:50:31,761
Speaker 1: it because as some of the legislation that we were

1070
00:50:31,801 --> 00:50:34,121
Speaker 1: lucky to get through, and we were lucky. When we

1071
00:50:34,121 --> 00:50:35,881
Speaker 1: would go to the government and say we want this,

1072
00:50:36,081 --> 00:50:38,721
Speaker 1: they would respond, you know, obviously we're not going to

1073
00:50:38,721 --> 00:50:41,161
Speaker 1: get everything we asked for. But if you look at

1074
00:50:41,201 --> 00:50:44,721
Speaker 1: even we had that whole range of shootings up Newcastle Way,

1075
00:50:44,761 --> 00:50:47,401
Speaker 1: which was the Phinx from Sydney trying to take over

1076
00:50:47,481 --> 00:50:50,641
Speaker 1: the Nomads up north, and there was a whole range

1077
00:50:50,681 --> 00:50:53,801
Speaker 1: over six weeks period of fire bombings, shootings, you know,

1078
00:50:54,641 --> 00:50:57,321
Speaker 1: so we knew that we were how do we break

1079
00:50:57,361 --> 00:50:59,361
Speaker 1: the back on this, Getting evidence of putting the gun

1080
00:50:59,401 --> 00:51:01,441
Speaker 1: in a particular person who was running it was going

1081
00:51:01,481 --> 00:51:04,241
Speaker 1: to be hard. So we went to Britain and we

1082
00:51:04,321 --> 00:51:06,881
Speaker 1: took you know, they come back with these things called

1083
00:51:06,961 --> 00:51:10,321
Speaker 1: serious Crime Prevention orders, and what that was is you

1084
00:51:10,361 --> 00:51:14,641
Speaker 1: can apply to the Supreme Court and based on intelligence,

1085
00:51:15,321 --> 00:51:17,881
Speaker 1: you can get certain restrictions like they may not be

1086
00:51:17,961 --> 00:51:20,361
Speaker 1: able to show their tattoos, they might not be able

1087
00:51:20,361 --> 00:51:23,281
Speaker 1: to associate. There's a whole range of sanctions for one

1088
00:51:23,321 --> 00:51:25,881
Speaker 1: of the better word that the court can impose based

1089
00:51:25,921 --> 00:51:29,281
Speaker 1: on intelligence, not even conviction based. That was a huge

1090
00:51:29,321 --> 00:51:32,361
Speaker 1: breakthrough of breaking that whole six weeks of terror that

1091
00:51:32,401 --> 00:51:34,921
Speaker 1: they tried to reign on that community. It broke the back.

1092
00:51:35,241 --> 00:51:38,361
Speaker 1: So that's one from England. You know, I think America

1093
00:51:38,481 --> 00:51:41,401
Speaker 1: would love some of our stuff, like the consorting laws,

1094
00:51:41,401 --> 00:51:43,921
Speaker 1: but they don't even have random breath testing. It's everything

1095
00:51:43,921 --> 00:51:47,241
Speaker 1: about reasonable cause. So they just go in awe because

1096
00:51:47,281 --> 00:51:49,441
Speaker 1: you know, tell us again how you he breaked the

1097
00:51:49,481 --> 00:51:52,441
Speaker 1: constitutional rights of our citizens would be so no, it's

1098
00:51:52,481 --> 00:51:55,041
Speaker 1: all legislator, it's law. We just asked for it.

1099
00:51:55,201 --> 00:51:57,201
Speaker 3: Well, what was the biggest obstacle that you came up

1100
00:51:57,201 --> 00:51:59,081
Speaker 3: against while you were at a strikeforce?

1101
00:51:59,161 --> 00:51:59,481
Speaker 2: Rap there?

1102
00:52:00,801 --> 00:52:02,961
Speaker 3: That's it, Like it stays in your head like that,

1103
00:52:03,041 --> 00:52:05,201
Speaker 3: you know that was good, or you could have on

1104
00:52:05,321 --> 00:52:07,161
Speaker 3: a batter, or or it was something that you'd never

1105
00:52:07,201 --> 00:52:08,201
Speaker 3: seen before, you know what I mean.

1106
00:52:08,281 --> 00:52:12,641
Speaker 1: It's I think nothing, nothing really comes up that surprises me.

1107
00:52:12,881 --> 00:52:19,281
Speaker 1: I guess I think probably was, Yeah, I can't think

1108
00:52:19,321 --> 00:52:21,641
Speaker 1: of anything that really said we can't get over this,

1109
00:52:21,721 --> 00:52:24,081
Speaker 1: because I had these amazing minds that we would say,

1110
00:52:24,641 --> 00:52:27,081
Speaker 1: how do we what do we need to combat this?

1111
00:52:27,641 --> 00:52:29,641
Speaker 1: You know that sort of thing. I suppose it's always

1112
00:52:30,721 --> 00:52:32,561
Speaker 1: which I think has been overcome, which we didn't have

1113
00:52:32,601 --> 00:52:35,201
Speaker 1: at the time, which was remember I said about if

1114
00:52:35,241 --> 00:52:37,161
Speaker 1: he sees a whole lot of money, because let's follow

1115
00:52:37,161 --> 00:52:39,481
Speaker 1: the money. They're all in it for the money, you know,

1116
00:52:39,641 --> 00:52:43,481
Speaker 1: the brotherhood things long gone. It's all about greed. Perhaps

1117
00:52:43,561 --> 00:52:46,681
Speaker 1: I would see, is the only thing was the money?

1118
00:52:46,761 --> 00:52:48,401
Speaker 1: You know that process we had to go through and

1119
00:52:48,441 --> 00:52:50,521
Speaker 1: seize the money. Then often it would have to go back.

1120
00:52:51,001 --> 00:52:53,001
Speaker 1: And then that's been changed. I think it was. I

1121
00:52:53,081 --> 00:52:56,721
Speaker 1: think I'm not up on the exact framework of the legislation,

1122
00:52:56,801 --> 00:53:00,201
Speaker 1: but now the reverse owner of proceeds of crime that

1123
00:53:00,281 --> 00:53:03,161
Speaker 1: it's a lot easier. Before to prove that money was

1124
00:53:03,201 --> 00:53:05,521
Speaker 1: gone through a crime, you had to prove that crime

1125
00:53:05,881 --> 00:53:08,601
Speaker 1: and then the money generated that, whereas I think now

1126
00:53:08,681 --> 00:53:11,401
Speaker 1: it's which is a huge thing. If you've got a

1127
00:53:11,401 --> 00:53:14,041
Speaker 1: whole bundle of money, they have to prove that it

1128
00:53:14,121 --> 00:53:18,321
Speaker 1: wasn't gotten through innocent things as opposed to the cops. Well,

1129
00:53:18,521 --> 00:53:23,921
Speaker 1: any regrets, No, I suppose we always look back and

1130
00:53:24,001 --> 00:53:27,521
Speaker 1: there will always be regrets that you always question, could

1131
00:53:27,521 --> 00:53:28,281
Speaker 1: I have done it better?

1132
00:53:28,441 --> 00:53:28,641
Speaker 2: Yep?

1133
00:53:28,721 --> 00:53:31,281
Speaker 1: Absolutely I could have done things differently, you know, probably

1134
00:53:31,281 --> 00:53:33,641
Speaker 1: a hundred times, and I and I think back. Probably

1135
00:53:33,681 --> 00:53:38,361
Speaker 1: the biggest regret, and it's the saddest day, was the

1136
00:53:38,401 --> 00:53:41,921
Speaker 1: loss of Bill Cruise. It was all gone through you know,

1137
00:53:42,001 --> 00:53:45,121
Speaker 1: coroner's courts and in quests and trials and a whole

1138
00:53:45,241 --> 00:53:47,601
Speaker 1: range of things and the scrutiny, and we can't turn

1139
00:53:47,641 --> 00:53:54,361
Speaker 1: back time. Hindsight is an amazing thing. I regret that

1140
00:53:55,001 --> 00:53:59,721
Speaker 1: what happened to Bill, and then even more so the

1141
00:53:59,761 --> 00:54:02,681
Speaker 1: officer that was did fire the fatal shot, although he

1142
00:54:02,761 --> 00:54:04,881
Speaker 1: was shot by the criminal that instigated the whole chain

1143
00:54:04,921 --> 00:54:10,241
Speaker 1: of events, Dave Roberts. He died not long after from

1144
00:54:10,361 --> 00:54:13,161
Speaker 1: he got cancer, and I wonder how much stress relates

1145
00:54:13,201 --> 00:54:18,081
Speaker 1: to manifest itself. He never forgave himself, and I wish

1146
00:54:18,121 --> 00:54:21,121
Speaker 1: in a way, even the conversation to him and I

1147
00:54:21,121 --> 00:54:24,601
Speaker 1: had over the next few years together, is he never

1148
00:54:24,801 --> 00:54:29,161
Speaker 1: really forgave himself. He lived with himself, and I only

1149
00:54:29,241 --> 00:54:31,641
Speaker 1: regret could I have lightened the load for him a

1150
00:54:31,641 --> 00:54:34,001
Speaker 1: bit more like I tried everything, but I suppose it

1151
00:54:34,041 --> 00:54:36,801
Speaker 1: was his burden to bear and words were never going

1152
00:54:36,841 --> 00:54:39,321
Speaker 1: to change that. And I just hope in a way

1153
00:54:39,361 --> 00:54:43,001
Speaker 1: that now we're with him those last few days and

1154
00:54:43,441 --> 00:54:46,841
Speaker 1: he was so strong and so stoic, and that I

1155
00:54:46,841 --> 00:54:50,001
Speaker 1: think one of the bravest things I ever heard was

1156
00:54:50,761 --> 00:54:53,641
Speaker 1: Ben Cruz, Bill's brother was in the cops. In fact,

1157
00:54:53,761 --> 00:54:57,361
Speaker 1: Ben was that the end shooting happened at Bankstown in

1158
00:54:57,561 --> 00:55:02,761
Speaker 1: twenty ten and Ben was at Bankstown and Ben was

1159
00:55:03,281 --> 00:55:08,481
Speaker 1: fantastic right, and so much support. And I remember when

1160
00:55:08,561 --> 00:55:11,881
Speaker 1: Robo got sick and there he was pretty dire by

1161
00:55:11,881 --> 00:55:15,441
Speaker 1: this stage and there was some experimental treatment in Melbourne.

1162
00:55:15,961 --> 00:55:18,481
Speaker 1: Robo rose it really well enough, and Robo said, I'm

1163
00:55:18,521 --> 00:55:20,001
Speaker 1: not going to do it because I don't want to

1164
00:55:20,081 --> 00:55:23,801
Speaker 1: use my super to go to Melbourne on something that

1165
00:55:23,841 --> 00:55:25,081
Speaker 1: I don't think is going to work. I think I'm

1166
00:55:25,081 --> 00:55:27,681
Speaker 1: too fig gone and the kids need My kids need

1167
00:55:27,681 --> 00:55:29,361
Speaker 1: the super, they need that, so I'm not going to

1168
00:55:29,401 --> 00:55:31,881
Speaker 1: do it. So someone said, well, why don't we just

1169
00:55:31,881 --> 00:55:33,321
Speaker 1: see if we can raise through a go fund me

1170
00:55:33,401 --> 00:55:36,561
Speaker 1: patriotch Dave was never a fan of because he felt

1171
00:55:37,001 --> 00:55:39,921
Speaker 1: but he needed the kids needed hope, the kids need

1172
00:55:39,921 --> 00:55:42,521
Speaker 1: to say show that he wasn't giving up. And it

1173
00:55:42,601 --> 00:55:46,081
Speaker 1: was Ben. Ben rang me and said Ben had moved

1174
00:55:46,201 --> 00:55:48,881
Speaker 1: up the coast and said could you just let Robo

1175
00:55:48,961 --> 00:55:52,841
Speaker 1: know that I've just seen And I was the first

1176
00:55:52,841 --> 00:55:55,241
Speaker 1: to donate and to go to Ben to be able

1177
00:55:55,241 --> 00:55:58,201
Speaker 1: to go to Robbo and say Ben wanted you to know.

1178
00:55:58,321 --> 00:56:03,961
Speaker 1: I mean that broke Robert's heart, So really those made it.

1179
00:56:04,041 --> 00:56:06,721
Speaker 1: Those so not so much about law enforcement, but about

1180
00:56:06,761 --> 00:56:07,561
Speaker 1: the people side.

1181
00:56:07,961 --> 00:56:09,881
Speaker 2: Absolutely, How did you switch.

1182
00:56:09,561 --> 00:56:12,041
Speaker 3: Off when you go home? Did you ever switch off?

1183
00:56:12,121 --> 00:56:15,921
Speaker 1: No, you never never switch off. But I learned, and

1184
00:56:16,161 --> 00:56:19,881
Speaker 1: I learned through going all the way back to Anita

1185
00:56:19,921 --> 00:56:24,321
Speaker 1: Coby and meeting Gary and Grace Lynch, her parents, and

1186
00:56:24,521 --> 00:56:26,601
Speaker 1: over the years I was so lucky to have them

1187
00:56:26,601 --> 00:56:30,121
Speaker 1: in my life. And then through the Homicide Victims Support

1188
00:56:30,161 --> 00:56:34,721
Speaker 1: group which I'm involved with and with those amazing not

1189
00:56:34,761 --> 00:56:37,521
Speaker 1: just Gary and Grace, but then the amazing families from

1190
00:56:37,561 --> 00:56:41,161
Speaker 1: that group. How they it's really not got on with

1191
00:56:41,201 --> 00:56:45,521
Speaker 1: their life, but they turned tragedies into strengths. Sometimes and

1192
00:56:45,561 --> 00:56:47,921
Speaker 1: I say to myself, wow, this is a job. You know,

1193
00:56:48,401 --> 00:56:51,961
Speaker 1: you love it and you're passionate, But what have they done?

1194
00:56:52,321 --> 00:56:54,841
Speaker 1: What have they been through? And yet they're still going,

1195
00:56:54,881 --> 00:56:58,881
Speaker 1: They're still making a difference, still continuing, still thinking of others.

1196
00:56:59,681 --> 00:57:03,801
Speaker 1: So I surrounded myself with good people, so that balanced

1197
00:57:03,841 --> 00:57:06,481
Speaker 1: it all out. And going right back to father Chris

1198
00:57:06,601 --> 00:57:08,881
Speaker 1: Riley in the nineties when I was with him, he

1199
00:57:08,961 --> 00:57:12,281
Speaker 1: taught me that no kid's worth giving up on, although

1200
00:57:12,281 --> 00:57:15,761
Speaker 1: he said sometimes you probably feel like it, and he

1201
00:57:15,841 --> 00:57:19,241
Speaker 1: taught me that prevention is better than cure. So if

1202
00:57:19,321 --> 00:57:23,281
Speaker 1: intervention crime prevention is really if we could put a

1203
00:57:23,321 --> 00:57:25,121
Speaker 1: lot of that, we have to do the other end.

1204
00:57:25,201 --> 00:57:27,441
Speaker 1: So my job is a prosecution and conviction all that,

1205
00:57:27,801 --> 00:57:31,281
Speaker 1: but that that intervention prevention stuff, it's huge.

1206
00:57:31,881 --> 00:57:33,241
Speaker 2: Did your job come of a lot of stress?

1207
00:57:33,241 --> 00:57:35,161
Speaker 3: Do you think, well, you didn't really, you know, like

1208
00:57:35,201 --> 00:57:37,641
Speaker 3: it didn't really affect you that much because it drove

1209
00:57:37,721 --> 00:57:38,481
Speaker 3: you on more.

1210
00:57:38,641 --> 00:57:39,241
Speaker 2: Or do you think so?

1211
00:57:39,361 --> 00:57:42,921
Speaker 1: Or I think you know there we wouldn't be anyone

1212
00:57:43,041 --> 00:57:47,721
Speaker 1: in you know, frontline you know, whether it's nursing, medical, army,

1213
00:57:48,441 --> 00:57:52,041
Speaker 1: ad f any any frontline service. I think covers that

1214
00:57:52,081 --> 00:57:54,441
Speaker 1: because you're you know, the FARBI gave the paramedics. I

1215
00:57:54,481 --> 00:57:56,721
Speaker 1: think there's that it is. I think, but what you've

1216
00:57:56,721 --> 00:57:59,201
Speaker 1: got to do for me for me to be able

1217
00:57:59,201 --> 00:58:01,401
Speaker 1: to do my job. I couldn't take it on. I

1218
00:58:01,401 --> 00:58:03,361
Speaker 1: couldn't take everything on. I couldn't take it all on.

1219
00:58:03,481 --> 00:58:06,441
Speaker 1: I couldn't say I say that that kid, or can

1220
00:58:06,481 --> 00:58:08,761
Speaker 1: I you know, you can't take it on. You have

1221
00:58:08,841 --> 00:58:11,881
Speaker 1: to in a way compartmentalize it and say this is

1222
00:58:11,921 --> 00:58:14,321
Speaker 1: my role, this is what I need to do, and

1223
00:58:14,321 --> 00:58:17,361
Speaker 1: and how can you if you took it on on,

1224
00:58:17,401 --> 00:58:19,521
Speaker 1: you crumble because the weight of it would be too much.

1225
00:58:19,561 --> 00:58:22,521
Speaker 1: So I think for me it's about life balance as well.

1226
00:58:22,601 --> 00:58:25,321
Speaker 1: I made sure I kept fit, I didn't take myself

1227
00:58:25,321 --> 00:58:29,161
Speaker 1: too seriously. I had great role models, I had outside

1228
00:58:29,161 --> 00:58:32,281
Speaker 1: influences like father, Chris and the things. So I think

1229
00:58:32,321 --> 00:58:36,081
Speaker 1: it's giving you that perspective of not saying as people's.

1230
00:58:36,121 --> 00:58:38,241
Speaker 1: And I remember it was Wayne Bennett. I'm a mad

1231
00:58:39,041 --> 00:58:43,281
Speaker 1: an real fan right, Yes, paramatter I know, I know,

1232
00:58:43,401 --> 00:58:45,681
Speaker 1: but we stick, we stick with we stick with stickers.

1233
00:58:46,721 --> 00:58:49,521
Speaker 1: And I was lucky once to have a lunch when

1234
00:58:49,521 --> 00:58:51,681
Speaker 1: I was in the Chief Inspector with Wayne Bennett. I

1235
00:58:51,761 --> 00:58:54,121
Speaker 1: was on a leadership program and I got to have

1236
00:58:54,281 --> 00:58:57,241
Speaker 1: access to Wayne Bennett. He'd just gone from Brisbane to

1237
00:58:57,241 --> 00:59:00,921
Speaker 1: Saint George. And I seem to gravitate to these people

1238
00:59:00,961 --> 00:59:03,281
Speaker 1: that are a little quirky like my Oh my bosses

1239
00:59:03,281 --> 00:59:07,241
Speaker 1: are a little quirky corry bosses in the best way.

1240
00:59:08,081 --> 00:59:11,241
Speaker 1: And I asked him a question about, so, what happens,

1241
00:59:11,241 --> 00:59:13,761
Speaker 1: you know, super coach, you go from Brisbane and then

1242
00:59:13,761 --> 00:59:16,281
Speaker 1: you said George, and it was what happens if it fails?

1243
00:59:17,481 --> 00:59:19,841
Speaker 1: And he said so matter of faculty which I think

1244
00:59:19,921 --> 00:59:24,601
Speaker 1: is so important. He said, well, I'm a father first,

1245
00:59:25,481 --> 00:59:29,561
Speaker 1: I'm a farmer second, and I'm a coach third. So

1246
00:59:29,881 --> 00:59:32,561
Speaker 1: the coach falls over. I've got the two most important

1247
00:59:32,561 --> 00:59:35,361
Speaker 1: things in my life. And I thought that was really

1248
00:59:35,401 --> 00:59:38,841
Speaker 1: for me. There's only a few words, it's way then,

1249
00:59:38,881 --> 00:59:43,681
Speaker 1: it doesn't say a lot, But to me, that set

1250
00:59:44,121 --> 00:59:46,921
Speaker 1: me straight to say exactly that, so that when I

1251
00:59:47,041 --> 00:59:49,961
Speaker 1: walked away from the cops, it was really hard to do.

1252
00:59:50,321 --> 00:59:53,041
Speaker 1: I just reached that point my age. Really it was

1253
00:59:53,081 --> 00:59:57,961
Speaker 1: time to explore new things that you don't retire from life.

1254
00:59:58,001 --> 01:00:01,361
Speaker 1: You just just left the cops. But what I learned

1255
01:00:01,441 --> 01:00:05,281
Speaker 1: was I wasn't defined by being a cop. I had

1256
01:00:05,361 --> 01:00:08,641
Speaker 1: other things that were important in my life. So I

1257
01:00:08,681 --> 01:00:12,041
Speaker 1: think that was easy. It wasn't easy to leave the

1258
01:00:12,041 --> 01:00:15,241
Speaker 1: family of the police. But you never leave because I'm

1259
01:00:15,281 --> 01:00:17,001
Speaker 1: still with them. I still have lunch with them, i

1260
01:00:17,041 --> 01:00:18,841
Speaker 1: still catch up with them. I still share their stories

1261
01:00:18,881 --> 01:00:21,761
Speaker 1: and their wins and their things. So you never really

1262
01:00:21,961 --> 01:00:24,281
Speaker 1: X You're just not influencing them anymore.

1263
01:00:25,321 --> 01:00:28,361
Speaker 3: And all your career, like you've taken them some major players,

1264
01:00:28,441 --> 01:00:30,921
Speaker 3: major games and all that that kind of stuff, which

1265
01:00:30,921 --> 01:00:32,641
Speaker 3: one stands out for you.

1266
01:00:34,041 --> 01:00:36,561
Speaker 1: I think it would have to be the Brothers for Life.

1267
01:00:37,161 --> 01:00:38,761
Speaker 1: You know. It was a short in a way in

1268
01:00:39,041 --> 01:00:42,361
Speaker 1: the big scheme of things, I think because it was

1269
01:00:42,441 --> 01:00:45,041
Speaker 1: it was for me. It was so unique because it

1270
01:00:45,161 --> 01:00:49,561
Speaker 1: was really over a copyright issue. So it was, you know,

1271
01:00:49,641 --> 01:00:53,921
Speaker 1: the Hamsees Lebanese group from Bankstown versus the new group

1272
01:00:54,001 --> 01:00:56,121
Speaker 1: on the kids on the block, you know, the far Kwami,

1273
01:00:56,121 --> 01:00:59,761
Speaker 1: the Afghanis. And it was a senselessness. Really. It was okay,

1274
01:00:59,801 --> 01:01:02,361
Speaker 1: you could be bigger picture of a territory and drugs ultimately,

1275
01:01:02,401 --> 01:01:04,321
Speaker 1: but no of the day, it was over, we're the

1276
01:01:04,321 --> 01:01:06,481
Speaker 1: Brothers for Life? Where the Brothers for Life? No where

1277
01:01:06,481 --> 01:01:08,561
Speaker 1: the Brothers for know where the Brothers for Life? And

1278
01:01:08,601 --> 01:01:11,361
Speaker 1: I went, oh man. And there was a lot of

1279
01:01:11,401 --> 01:01:15,601
Speaker 1: pressure because it really came. We knew what they were doing,

1280
01:01:15,601 --> 01:01:17,521
Speaker 1: and we knew how much pressure was on us because

1281
01:01:17,561 --> 01:01:20,081
Speaker 1: we work we were now working with a homicide squad

1282
01:01:20,081 --> 01:01:24,001
Speaker 1: because the love of them being convicted for homicides. And

1283
01:01:24,081 --> 01:01:27,081
Speaker 1: it was when the shooting of Kwami happened at Rushcutter's

1284
01:01:27,121 --> 01:01:31,081
Speaker 1: Bay on the first of January. Wow, that's when the

1285
01:01:31,121 --> 01:01:34,361
Speaker 1: pressure really vamped up. And you know it was the

1286
01:01:34,441 --> 01:01:36,401
Speaker 1: team that was doing it was wasn't huge, Like, it

1287
01:01:36,441 --> 01:01:38,281
Speaker 1: wasn't one hundred anything on the stripe forced likely to

1288
01:01:38,281 --> 01:01:40,121
Speaker 1: be fifteen on the stripe face. I had to get

1289
01:01:40,241 --> 01:01:42,521
Speaker 1: all this evidence and all them take them off the street.

1290
01:01:42,801 --> 01:01:45,881
Speaker 1: A lot of pressure to get that done, particularly in

1291
01:01:45,921 --> 01:01:48,801
Speaker 1: a public plaus shooting at rush Cutter Space. Suddenly I

1292
01:01:48,841 --> 01:01:50,601
Speaker 1: know they've been doing it for six months elsewhere, but

1293
01:01:51,001 --> 01:01:54,641
Speaker 1: that was the pinnacle. So it was about a number

1294
01:01:54,721 --> 01:01:57,921
Speaker 1: of being a bit creative and just saying have we

1295
01:01:57,961 --> 01:02:01,641
Speaker 1: got enough? Well, we have to move and we can't

1296
01:02:01,721 --> 01:02:04,001
Speaker 1: leave them out there any longer. We have to run

1297
01:02:04,001 --> 01:02:05,681
Speaker 1: with what we've got. So I think that for me,

1298
01:02:05,761 --> 01:02:08,561
Speaker 1: and then getting getting I think Kwami got who was

1299
01:02:08,921 --> 01:02:10,521
Speaker 1: he got? I think he's I think he got a

1300
01:02:10,521 --> 01:02:13,601
Speaker 1: head sentence of fifties in the fifties with a non

1301
01:02:13,681 --> 01:02:17,521
Speaker 1: parole of fifty two or something like huge sentences for

1302
01:02:17,601 --> 01:02:19,601
Speaker 1: directing the group. And I think that was like a

1303
01:02:19,641 --> 01:02:21,961
Speaker 1: shell game because you had there was only say twenty

1304
01:02:21,961 --> 01:02:24,841
Speaker 1: three or twenty four in the gang. The Brothers for

1305
01:02:24,921 --> 01:02:27,401
Speaker 1: Life were probably right because they stayed strong. But then

1306
01:02:27,761 --> 01:02:30,921
Speaker 1: luckily a lot of people thought, hang on, why am

1307
01:02:30,961 --> 01:02:32,841
Speaker 1: I taking a four for you guys? And saw the

1308
01:02:32,921 --> 01:02:37,121
Speaker 1: light and whatnot. As one of my sergeants said, an

1309
01:02:37,201 --> 01:02:39,761
Speaker 1: amazing sergeant. We were talking about the brothers for life again,

1310
01:02:39,761 --> 01:02:42,201
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure, he says, you know, because I've

1311
01:02:42,241 --> 01:02:44,161
Speaker 1: been built up to be bigger than the co Martas

1312
01:02:44,201 --> 01:02:46,641
Speaker 1: he says, brothers for life. They're lucky to be brothers

1313
01:02:46,681 --> 01:02:50,841
Speaker 1: for today. It's just probably true. So I think that.

1314
01:02:51,041 --> 01:02:53,601
Speaker 1: And of course the stuff with the as a young

1315
01:02:53,721 --> 01:02:57,561
Speaker 1: sergeant running a street gang unit in Cabra matter was

1316
01:02:57,921 --> 01:03:00,001
Speaker 1: and the different approach we did was we did the

1317
01:03:00,041 --> 01:03:02,921
Speaker 1: street school, we did the basketball, we got the junior

1318
01:03:02,921 --> 01:03:05,961
Speaker 1: members isolated. We talked about getting amount of gang life.

1319
01:03:06,041 --> 01:03:08,681
Speaker 1: But yeah, so father took them to the farms. So

1320
01:03:08,761 --> 01:03:11,521
Speaker 1: that's where I learned. So two things. I suppose the

1321
01:03:11,521 --> 01:03:14,921
Speaker 1: approach taken with the disruption or the intervention and the

1322
01:03:15,001 --> 01:03:18,601
Speaker 1: prevention by the by father Chris using using a social

1323
01:03:18,641 --> 01:03:21,801
Speaker 1: solution to a crime problem really impressed me and influenced me.

1324
01:03:22,081 --> 01:03:24,801
Speaker 1: But then taken on the creativity that you have to

1325
01:03:24,801 --> 01:03:26,281
Speaker 1: do and when there's pressure on to take them out.

1326
01:03:27,321 --> 01:03:30,521
Speaker 1: Oh every day you do, yeah, yeah, every day. You know.

1327
01:03:30,561 --> 01:03:36,161
Speaker 1: I lived through the media, I read its paper. Yeah yeah, I'm.

1328
01:03:34,801 --> 01:03:38,001
Speaker 3: Missing every day an say, for instance, would you like

1329
01:03:38,041 --> 01:03:40,401
Speaker 3: to be in it now, or you like the way

1330
01:03:40,521 --> 01:03:43,081
Speaker 3: you started back in the day, or would you take

1331
01:03:43,121 --> 01:03:43,961
Speaker 3: it on nowadays?

1332
01:03:44,081 --> 01:03:46,521
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, you know.

1333
01:03:46,601 --> 01:03:47,641
Speaker 2: You've never itched to go back.

1334
01:03:48,121 --> 01:03:52,401
Speaker 1: Oh you know, it's like there's nothing more excellent an X.

1335
01:03:52,481 --> 01:03:55,201
Speaker 1: You know. So I'm smart enough to realize that the

1336
01:03:55,521 --> 01:03:58,121
Speaker 1: batten's well and truly been handed over and it's in

1337
01:03:58,241 --> 01:04:01,321
Speaker 1: safe hands, absolutely safe hands. I mean not that I know.

1338
01:04:01,361 --> 01:04:03,801
Speaker 1: I probably wasn't that safe to have it, mate, Like,

1339
01:04:03,841 --> 01:04:05,761
Speaker 1: can you look at the people you know that are

1340
01:04:05,761 --> 01:04:10,321
Speaker 1: in our organization now that I have no no, like,

1341
01:04:10,361 --> 01:04:11,921
Speaker 1: oh I could have done it better and I would

1342
01:04:11,921 --> 01:04:13,761
Speaker 1: have done this. No, that's not it at all. They're

1343
01:04:13,801 --> 01:04:16,801
Speaker 1: doing amazing stuff. But I miss I missed the cut

1344
01:04:16,881 --> 01:04:19,721
Speaker 1: and thrust of But miss I missed the That's so

1345
01:04:20,481 --> 01:04:22,441
Speaker 1: you know, I keep busy, and you know, and I

1346
01:04:22,561 --> 01:04:25,401
Speaker 1: do my meals on wheels and you should see me

1347
01:04:25,441 --> 01:04:28,521
Speaker 1: peel potatoes, mate, I'm not real good at it. That's

1348
01:04:28,521 --> 01:04:30,201
Speaker 1: the only thing they let me loose on. I'm I'm

1349
01:04:30,201 --> 01:04:32,201
Speaker 1: not a cook, so they only let me peel potatoes.

1350
01:04:33,481 --> 01:04:37,041
Speaker 1: But you know, I love hearing their stories and you know,

1351
01:04:37,081 --> 01:04:40,401
Speaker 1: and I you know, I burst with pride when I see,

1352
01:04:40,601 --> 01:04:43,081
Speaker 1: you know, knowing what they're probably doing behind the scenes,

1353
01:04:43,281 --> 01:04:45,241
Speaker 1: ready to go. You know, people panic when oh they've

1354
01:04:45,241 --> 01:04:47,161
Speaker 1: got to take them out and think they will just

1355
01:04:47,201 --> 01:04:49,121
Speaker 1: give them time, they will do it, they'll get there.

1356
01:04:49,161 --> 01:04:51,841
Speaker 1: The cops they've got to work on evidence, not on intelligence.

1357
01:04:52,481 --> 01:04:54,921
Speaker 1: So yeah, the answer is, but isn't it great to

1358
01:04:55,161 --> 01:04:59,401
Speaker 1: say you can walk away from a career with no regrets.

1359
01:04:59,761 --> 01:05:02,521
Speaker 1: I wouldn't have done it. Maybe maybe I would have

1360
01:05:02,561 --> 01:05:04,641
Speaker 1: done things. I don't know. I got to exactly where

1361
01:05:04,681 --> 01:05:07,481
Speaker 1: I wanted to. I didn't. He said, oh, why didn't

1362
01:05:07,481 --> 01:05:10,041
Speaker 1: you go higher? Well I probably didn't have the ability

1363
01:05:10,041 --> 01:05:11,881
Speaker 1: to go higher, but well I didn't want to go higher. Yeah,

1364
01:05:12,081 --> 01:05:14,761
Speaker 1: because as a superintendent, you've got the you know what

1365
01:05:14,841 --> 01:05:16,961
Speaker 1: a great position I was in to live through their

1366
01:05:17,001 --> 01:05:20,161
Speaker 1: experiences but also be with them and also not have

1367
01:05:20,201 --> 01:05:23,361
Speaker 1: to be too political, you know, like I didn't get

1368
01:05:23,441 --> 01:05:25,921
Speaker 1: too caught up in the the processing.

1369
01:05:26,121 --> 01:05:29,201
Speaker 3: You have ever't bumped into anybody like like since you've left,

1370
01:05:29,481 --> 01:05:31,681
Speaker 3: who who was on the other side of the fence?

1371
01:05:32,081 --> 01:05:34,081
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, it's.

1372
01:05:35,041 --> 01:05:36,761
Speaker 3: I'm not saying like you've sat down for commedge. No, no,

1373
01:05:37,641 --> 01:05:40,121
Speaker 3: have you liked to has it been? Was it difficult.

1374
01:05:40,121 --> 01:05:42,241
Speaker 1: When you've bumped in someone, they've just been like, no,

1375
01:05:42,641 --> 01:05:44,241
Speaker 1: it's it's and you know a lot of it is

1376
01:05:44,361 --> 01:05:47,001
Speaker 1: I think take you out of context, you know, you know,

1377
01:05:47,121 --> 01:05:50,161
Speaker 1: like you're hiding plain sight in a way. So I

1378
01:05:50,281 --> 01:05:51,961
Speaker 1: met I've met some, but it's it's always a bit

1379
01:05:52,001 --> 01:05:53,801
Speaker 1: of a not you know, that sort of thing, you know,

1380
01:05:53,961 --> 01:05:59,041
Speaker 1: just not I feel like, you know, like those and

1381
01:05:59,161 --> 01:06:02,921
Speaker 1: I think they've probably realized that I've moved on it. Yeah,

1382
01:06:02,961 --> 01:06:05,921
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's it's not that often because I did

1383
01:06:06,001 --> 01:06:09,961
Speaker 1: leave Sydney, but yeah, it's you know they've probably moved

1384
01:06:10,001 --> 01:06:12,761
Speaker 1: on as well. You know, they've probably changed. I always

1385
01:06:12,801 --> 01:06:15,801
Speaker 1: think I live in hope that people change. All the

1386
01:06:15,801 --> 01:06:17,481
Speaker 1: ones that I probably don't want to see, I'm going

1387
01:06:17,521 --> 01:06:19,481
Speaker 1: to be going to be in the place.

1388
01:06:19,201 --> 01:06:19,721
Speaker 2: To see them.

1389
01:06:20,601 --> 01:06:22,561
Speaker 3: To shrive yourself in one word or two.

1390
01:06:22,361 --> 01:06:27,001
Speaker 1: Words, I think in a way, I just love life,

1391
01:06:27,681 --> 01:06:30,361
Speaker 1: and I think I've got a bit of grit. I

1392
01:06:30,401 --> 01:06:33,641
Speaker 1: suppose I use that word sometimes better than resilience because

1393
01:06:33,721 --> 01:06:35,601
Speaker 1: you know, I don't sort of have to pick myself

1394
01:06:35,681 --> 01:06:37,441
Speaker 1: up very often because I don't get down too much.

1395
01:06:37,841 --> 01:06:40,041
Speaker 1: So I think I just and I guess that just

1396
01:06:40,081 --> 01:06:43,601
Speaker 1: comes to my background you know, probably be frowned upon today.

1397
01:06:44,121 --> 01:06:47,361
Speaker 1: You know, my dad would never give me a hug

1398
01:06:47,401 --> 01:06:49,641
Speaker 1: and say I love you, but he'd say, got to

1399
01:06:49,641 --> 01:06:51,921
Speaker 1: give that car a wash. It's looking pretty dirty. And

1400
01:06:51,961 --> 01:06:53,881
Speaker 1: I think he loved me a lot because the camera

1401
01:06:54,121 --> 01:06:55,881
Speaker 1: that I had, oh yes, I did own a camera,

1402
01:06:56,241 --> 01:06:58,241
Speaker 1: and then it had no paint on it. And even

1403
01:06:58,281 --> 01:07:02,361
Speaker 1: when there was an allegation someone internally made an allegation

1404
01:07:02,441 --> 01:07:04,241
Speaker 1: that I was the new leader of the five T

1405
01:07:04,401 --> 01:07:07,601
Speaker 1: gang when Treat murdered. I know, so the Royal Commission

1406
01:07:07,601 --> 01:07:09,161
Speaker 1: though they were on a winner, but they didn't realized

1407
01:07:09,161 --> 01:07:12,601
Speaker 1: they weren't. But they questioned the gang members of five

1408
01:07:12,681 --> 01:07:16,801
Speaker 1: T about whether I was their leader, and they looked

1409
01:07:17,201 --> 01:07:18,881
Speaker 1: at because I came down to the police station to

1410
01:07:18,961 --> 01:07:20,801
Speaker 1: let me know that they were being questioned about my

1411
01:07:20,961 --> 01:07:23,401
Speaker 1: leadership of them. They went, no, she just yell at

1412
01:07:23,481 --> 01:07:26,001
Speaker 1: us for not going to school. But also if she's

1413
01:07:26,001 --> 01:07:29,881
Speaker 1: our leader, she drives a shit car, she'd have a

1414
01:07:29,921 --> 01:07:31,801
Speaker 1: better car. She has a car with no paint on it.

1415
01:07:32,881 --> 01:07:34,201
Speaker 1: I figure my dad loved me a lot.

1416
01:07:35,361 --> 01:07:37,001
Speaker 2: I want to say thank you for coming on, Ebert.

1417
01:07:37,161 --> 01:07:40,601
Speaker 3: I said, like it's been worth the waits because I

1418
01:07:40,641 --> 01:07:42,641
Speaker 3: know you've been busy and I'm glad to see you

1419
01:07:42,721 --> 01:07:45,281
Speaker 3: again since like you're three years ago, since you could

1420
01:07:45,281 --> 01:07:47,121
Speaker 3: first come on my podcast, see you today, Well, thank

1421
01:07:47,121 --> 01:07:47,801
Speaker 3: you for coming on.

1422
01:07:48,001 --> 01:08:06,561
Speaker 1: Thank you