WEBVTT - How Atlassian’s tech bromance died

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<v Speaker 1>From the Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Tuesday, August eleven, twenty twenty six. The Japanese government

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<v Speaker 1>formally raised with Australia a tacki joke made by Anthony

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<v Speaker 1>Albinizi about a gift of melons from the Japanese Prime

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<v Speaker 1>Minister Snai Takaichi, but said it wouldn't make an official complaint.

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<v Speaker 1>That diplomatic drama is going off right now at the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian dot com dot a U. Something dodgy's going on

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<v Speaker 1>with defense. The government is claiming it's getting up to

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<v Speaker 1>four hundred and fifty advanced tactical air to air missiles

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<v Speaker 1>for seven hundred and thirty six million dollars, but The

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<v Speaker 1>Australian's revealing today it will be more like one hundred

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<v Speaker 1>missiles and they won't be here until twenty thirty three.

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<v Speaker 1>Warring Wives, Competing Values and a Broken Culture Tech, a

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<v Speaker 1>new book by the Australians John Stenzolt and Perry Williams

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<v Speaker 1>reveals the inside story of how Scott Farquhar and Mike

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<v Speaker 1>cannon Brooks built Australia's most successful tech business and lost

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<v Speaker 1>their friendship. John and Perry are brilliant journals and favorites

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<v Speaker 1>on the front and they're here.

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<v Speaker 2>In just a moment, a Lassian grew to become the

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<v Speaker 2>most valuable Australian technology company ever and then it lost

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<v Speaker 2>the most amount from the value of it shares in

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<v Speaker 2>Australian history.

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<v Speaker 1>That's John Stenzel reading an extract from Tech Bros. The

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<v Speaker 1>book he's written with Perry Williams, both senior journalists at

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<v Speaker 1>the Australian Congratulations guys on this wonderful book about Mike

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<v Speaker 1>cannon Brooks and Scott Farquhar, the business they built together,

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<v Speaker 1>their friendship and how it unraveled in certain ways. Scott

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<v Speaker 1>Farquhar and Mike cannon Brooks were supposed to be living

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<v Speaker 1>next to each other in mansions they bought at around

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<v Speaker 1>the same time. Hasn't come true. Tell me about those mansions, Perry,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe start by telling me what it's got. Farquhir and

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<v Speaker 1>his wife Kim Jackson.

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<v Speaker 3>By Yeah, it's a pretty amazing story. So they paid

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<v Speaker 3>at the time record some of seventy one million dollars

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<v Speaker 3>twenty nineteen for this slightly dilapidated mansion in Point Piper

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<v Speaker 3>known as Elaine.

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<v Speaker 4>The property is known as Elaine, which was the longtime

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<v Speaker 4>home of the Fairfax Media family. The Australian newspaper reports

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<v Speaker 4>that the homes readled with his bestos and has been

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<v Speaker 4>partially demolished and at.

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<v Speaker 3>The time smashed all the records. It was really held

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<v Speaker 3>up as this big moment for Sydney as well. All

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<v Speaker 3>of a sudden, the tech guys, the tech billionaires were

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<v Speaker 3>taking over and they were buying the big properties. Little

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<v Speaker 3>did they know that Mike Kenan Brooks and Annie his

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<v Speaker 3>wife would move in next door co founders, co CEOs

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<v Speaker 3>and neighbors. Mike had actually trumped Farkua. He paid one

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<v Speaker 3>hundred million for Fairwater, one of Sydney's most historic properties.

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<v Speaker 3>All seemed to be going well until that classic bossie

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<v Speaker 3>over the fence argument happened over a renovation and things

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<v Speaker 3>started to splinter quite quickly.

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<v Speaker 1>John, I think everyone can identify with this. Somebody moves

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<v Speaker 1>in next door and suddenly there's a dispute about who

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<v Speaker 1>wants to do what with their houses. What was the

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<v Speaker 1>essence of the dispute, Well.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, Scott had this huge plans to revamp his house

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<v Speaker 2>and quite frankly, Anye Canon Brooks and Mike weren't too impressed,

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<v Speaker 2>and he actually got scaffolding erected in her side of

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<v Speaker 2>the fence to show what huge shadow or what would

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<v Speaker 2>do to the look from her side of the fence

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<v Speaker 2>for what was going to happen next door.

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<v Speaker 1>Then Scott and Kim's grandiose forty million dollar renovation blueprints

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<v Speaker 1>made their way into the media, then disappeared mysteriously a

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<v Speaker 1>few weeks later.

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<v Speaker 2>What's clearly happened in the background is that there's been

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of tension, probably in the workplace as well

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<v Speaker 2>as home.

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<v Speaker 5>Scott Parquha, one of the founders of the Australian software

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<v Speaker 5>giant Atlasian, has stepped down as co CEO. He isn't

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<v Speaker 5>stepping away and though he'll remain on the company's board

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<v Speaker 5>as a special advisor.

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<v Speaker 1>You guys are covering these business leaders like you cover

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<v Speaker 1>so many people in Australian business at the time. Did

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<v Speaker 1>you know that there was any trouble in Paradise.

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<v Speaker 2>It didn't come out for years. In fact, it really

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<v Speaker 2>took until Scott left at lass In in twenty twenty four. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>and so he steps down as co CEO. They're still

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<v Speaker 2>in their mid mid forties, right, all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 2>the tech dream is over, and everyone writes it off as, oh, look,

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<v Speaker 2>Scott's just looking to do other things. It's one of

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<v Speaker 2>those classics partings of the way. But you know he's

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<v Speaker 2>going to be happy. But Perry and I were thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about what stories to cover, what to do, and this

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<v Speaker 2>sort of nagging thought, what did these two billionaires walk

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<v Speaker 2>away from age? W what did one walk away from

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<v Speaker 2>the other? What's going on here? So it was about

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<v Speaker 2>a year after Scott had left that we started asking

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<v Speaker 2>some questions, investigating, and it really turned out that nothing

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<v Speaker 2>was as it seemed. There was so much tension behind

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<v Speaker 2>the scenes. There were so many issues and dramas that

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<v Speaker 2>we just wrote an investigative series about it. And here

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<v Speaker 2>we are with his book.

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<v Speaker 1>How did the investigative series go down with these two subjects?

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<v Speaker 3>Oh? They hated it, So you know, it was absolute

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<v Speaker 3>panic stations at a Lassian and you know, essentially they

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<v Speaker 3>put on the charade that does still best mates. There

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<v Speaker 3>was no fallout, but we had dozens of sources and

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<v Speaker 3>even privately, Scott Farquare told me that we were pretty

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<v Speaker 3>much on the mark with our reporting.

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<v Speaker 1>At Lassian's origin story is legendary in Australian business. Two

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<v Speaker 1>bright young geeks made at UNI. Mike's a rich kid

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<v Speaker 1>from the Eastern suburbs, Scott's a westy. As graduation nears,

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<v Speaker 1>Mike cannon Brooks sends an email to the whole class,

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<v Speaker 1>anyone want to start our own company? He gets just

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<v Speaker 1>one response from Scott Farquha Perry. Even in those very

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<v Speaker 1>early years they were hanging out a lot at a

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<v Speaker 1>sort of grungy share house in Sydney's in a West.

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<v Speaker 1>They were drinking a lot of boo cheap booze, but

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<v Speaker 1>the dynamic was kind of set from the beginning. Mike

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<v Speaker 1>cannon Brooks seemed to be the kind of dynamic visionary,

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<v Speaker 1>urging people on getting things started. Scott Farquhar is the

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<v Speaker 1>guy down at the bottle shop, buying the booze and

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<v Speaker 1>getting things organized right.

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<v Speaker 3>Mike was actually the real sort of hardcore coding guy

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<v Speaker 3>and like really quite highly regarded for what he could

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<v Speaker 3>bring to that side of it. Scott was equally a

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<v Speaker 3>real scholar and very driven, but also made sure there

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<v Speaker 3>was a party to go along with it. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>all of a sudden they're running this company, but they

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<v Speaker 3>want to have a lot of fun along the way.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's what I'm much younger. Mike cannon Brooks said about

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<v Speaker 1>that after winning an Entrepreneur of the Year award back

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<v Speaker 1>in two thousand and six.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't think anything's been particularly mind blowingly tough. But

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<v Speaker 2>we've tried our best and we've done that all right

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<v Speaker 2>so far.

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<v Speaker 1>They married brilliant, dynamic women, each of them. Scott farquh

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<v Speaker 1>married Kim Jackson, and Mike cannon Brooks married Annie Todd,

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<v Speaker 1>an American woman, and the relationships became an important part

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<v Speaker 1>of the story, didn't they John.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, they certainly did. Look, I mean, I think we've

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<v Speaker 2>said with that they were best men at each other's weddings.

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<v Speaker 2>It's part of that narrative as well, right how close

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<v Speaker 2>they were meant to be. It's becomes a very important

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<v Speaker 2>part of who they are and what they do. So

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<v Speaker 2>fast forward to now and Scott and Kim are now

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<v Speaker 2>investing their money together. Look, Mike and Annie have split up,

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<v Speaker 2>but you know, for a long time there Mike was

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<v Speaker 2>and his biggest fan when she was making her full

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<v Speaker 2>rays into the fashion industry. So it was a really

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<v Speaker 2>important part of who they were who they became. And

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<v Speaker 2>then also an interesting part of how the relationships started.

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<v Speaker 2>Crack started the show, right, the two wives just did

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<v Speaker 2>not get on in the end, and that's sort of

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<v Speaker 2>probably part of the problem, not saying it's definitely not

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<v Speaker 2>the main part of the problem, but it is an

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<v Speaker 2>issue when you respect the spouses don't get on with

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<v Speaker 2>each other.

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<v Speaker 1>Perry, even as they were moving into these glamorous houses

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<v Speaker 1>kind of next door to each other, or at least

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<v Speaker 1>glamorous locations, I think the interiors might have been a

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<v Speaker 1>bit shabby. There was what you guys have referred to

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<v Speaker 1>as the Year of Silence. What was happening.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that was really interesting. Actually, this was actually in

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<v Speaker 3>twenty nineteen that had a falling out. In the billionaire world,

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<v Speaker 3>often there's counselors, there's advisors which work with these people,

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<v Speaker 3>and there was an intervention of sorts for the two

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<v Speaker 3>of them to go to California and spend some time

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<v Speaker 3>with this counselor, Finkelstein. And what came out of that

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<v Speaker 3>is that Mike actually said that he was being bullied

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<v Speaker 3>by Scott, which was again perhaps a little bit unexpected.

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<v Speaker 3>You know, obviously this was never documented. We're not even

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<v Speaker 3>sure if Atlasian's board of directors were aware of this,

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<v Speaker 3>But what it does sort of underline is that there

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<v Speaker 3>was some quite deep rooted issues between the two of.

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<v Speaker 1>Them coming up the staff who wanted to make Mike's

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<v Speaker 1>wife jealous. All along the way, at Lassian had developed

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<v Speaker 1>this culture of openness within that on their own internal

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<v Speaker 1>messaging platforms that people were encouraged to kind of rip

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<v Speaker 1>each other a little bit or to have very frank views.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an unusual culture, especially as the company grew, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>John, Absolutely it was part of this story that they

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<v Speaker 2>had this open culture. They had this set of values

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<v Speaker 2>that they talked about all the time. And we've spoken

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<v Speaker 2>to a lot of ex employees there and people that

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<v Speaker 2>were there right at the start and through there for

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<v Speaker 2>a long time, and they say they live those values.

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<v Speaker 2>One of the values about not messing with the customer

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<v Speaker 2>if the customer I was going to say it was

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<v Speaker 2>probably a bit more risk language than that, And there

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<v Speaker 2>were people that say that's what we talk about. We

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<v Speaker 2>would say, oh, we think this is effing the customer,

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<v Speaker 2>so let's not do it. They did, I think, for

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<v Speaker 2>quite a long time, live those values very closely, and

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<v Speaker 2>then as time goes on they have a big stock

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<v Speaker 2>market float and the money starts coming in. They obviously

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<v Speaker 2>get bigger, and they have so many more employees around

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<v Speaker 2>the world. I think an important part of that story

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<v Speaker 2>is how do you keep that culture up when you

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<v Speaker 2>become so big and so different. You know, it's very,

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<v Speaker 2>very hard, and they haven't been as successful as that,

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<v Speaker 2>And perhaps it's not a surprise.

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<v Speaker 1>It seemed as though the screw started to tighten on

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<v Speaker 1>that internal culture and suddenly people would find themselves in

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<v Speaker 1>trouble for saying things that they previously might have been

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<v Speaker 1>able to articulate. There was a chilling moment you guys,

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<v Speaker 1>right about where a source told you that at one

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<v Speaker 1>point the IT Department was asked to unmask an anonymous

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<v Speaker 1>employee survey. I think if we've all filled in those surveys,

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<v Speaker 1>we really wonder are they really anonymous? Where did that

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<v Speaker 1>fit into the disintegration of the relationship between Scott and Mike.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, Look, I think that they really struggled to keep

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<v Speaker 3>that culture alive. They've reflected that in the early days,

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<v Speaker 3>they took stuff out for lunch, they had a beer,

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<v Speaker 3>They got to know them quite quickly. Once it started

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<v Speaker 3>getting in the hundreds and obviously in the thousands of staff,

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<v Speaker 3>they realized that that actually employed some people that weren't

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<v Speaker 3>really the right fit, or they promoted people very quickly

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<v Speaker 3>who perhaps went up to the job. I think we'd

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<v Speaker 3>all have a bit of sympathy. I mean, two guys

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<v Speaker 3>in their twenties starting this incredible company. But are those

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<v Speaker 3>two guys in their twenties able to manage a team

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<v Speaker 3>of thousands of people effectively across, you know, countries around

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<v Speaker 3>the world. It's quite a big challenge.

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<v Speaker 1>When they were still both within the company, two courts

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<v Speaker 1>seemed to form around the court of Mike and the

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<v Speaker 1>court of Scott. And in the court of Mike was

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<v Speaker 1>some very powerful personalities. You've referred to some of them

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<v Speaker 1>as the velvet assassins.

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<v Speaker 2>Who were they John, Yeah, in particular, the assassins of

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<v Speaker 2>worlded a lot of power, right and in Mike's office,

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<v Speaker 2>so we're talking about his EA face Sterling, talking about

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<v Speaker 2>his chief of staff Amy Glancy, communications director Louis Haller,

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<v Speaker 2>and so there's several others around them as well. They're

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<v Speaker 2>certainly the key ones who are still in there today.

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<v Speaker 2>When you dealt with them. Looking back several years they

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<v Speaker 2>were involved in not just that last and things, but

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<v Speaker 2>it was always Mike things. So when there was when

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<v Speaker 2>Mike buys the mansion for one hundred million dollars, it's

0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.559
<v Speaker 2>information I remember that's in his personal life, information from

0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:03.680
<v Speaker 2>them that gets disseminated to the media. So there's that

0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:07.200
<v Speaker 2>sort of blurring of the lines from at Lassian full

0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:13.360
<v Speaker 2>stop into Mike's private business, his private investments, his family

0:12:13.400 --> 0:12:16.280
<v Speaker 2>stuff as well. It didn't seem to happen as much

0:12:16.960 --> 0:12:19.920
<v Speaker 2>with the Scott side of things. So over time it

0:12:19.960 --> 0:12:24.000
<v Speaker 2>becomes a group around Mike that really promoted what he

0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.160
<v Speaker 2>was doing, not necessarily what they were doing.

0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.480
<v Speaker 1>You've obtained those internal messages involving some of these people,

0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:34.040
<v Speaker 1>and there's a quite stunning exchange where some of the

0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:37.360
<v Speaker 1>women in this group are talking about making Annie canon

0:12:37.360 --> 0:12:41.160
<v Speaker 1>Brooks jealous and dressing in a way so as to

0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:44.760
<v Speaker 1>make Mike think that they were effable. What was really

0:12:44.760 --> 0:12:45.440
<v Speaker 1>going on there?

0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Look, I think people that saw an opportunity to impress Mike,

0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:53.000
<v Speaker 2>to really go that extra mile to really be impressive

0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:54.880
<v Speaker 2>to the boss. It's not just impressing them from a

0:12:54.920 --> 0:12:57.040
<v Speaker 2>work point of view. From all sorts of point of views.

0:12:57.120 --> 0:12:59.320
<v Speaker 2>So look, there is that blurring of the lines. I

0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.520
<v Speaker 2>write about millionaires all the time, clear they have their

0:13:01.679 --> 0:13:03.719
<v Speaker 2>consickly airs and someone that really deal with all sort

0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:06.080
<v Speaker 2>of facets of their life. But I think the difference

0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:07.920
<v Speaker 2>with this one is that there was two leaders here

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:12.000
<v Speaker 2>in this company, right, and people over time really question

0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.959
<v Speaker 2>all sorts of companies do they need two CEOs? And

0:13:15.000 --> 0:13:17.679
<v Speaker 2>maybe it's just a case where it was always going

0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:19.839
<v Speaker 2>to be too difficult, you know, not necessarily from the start,

0:13:19.880 --> 0:13:21.920
<v Speaker 2>but as you get to a certain time to have

0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:25.160
<v Speaker 2>more than one leader, because you end up having competition,

0:13:25.240 --> 0:13:27.200
<v Speaker 2>and this is the effect of that competition. That's how

0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.840
<v Speaker 2>it plays out. People really really want to impress the

0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 2>person they think has more power than the other.

0:13:32.080 --> 0:13:35.560
<v Speaker 1>As Scott Farquhar seemed to withdraw into himself, withdraw into

0:13:35.600 --> 0:13:37.719
<v Speaker 1>the family, he spent a long time driving around the

0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.319
<v Speaker 1>country with his family in a camper van. Mike cannon

0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:44.000
<v Speaker 1>Brooks was kind of spinning ever higher revolutions. Wasn't he

0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.080
<v Speaker 1>investing in green energy projects and sort of flirting with

0:13:48.120 --> 0:13:51.120
<v Speaker 1>Elon mask on what was then Twitter? What do you

0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:53.839
<v Speaker 1>understand about why Scott farquha walked away?

0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:58.600
<v Speaker 3>Our understanding is that Mike was actually going to step down.

0:13:58.760 --> 0:14:02.720
<v Speaker 3>It'd been a discussion about that, whether they saw the

0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:07.319
<v Speaker 3>cob CEO model as unwieldy, or whether it had reached

0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:12.040
<v Speaker 3>its end of life and that didn't happen. We're not

0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:15.360
<v Speaker 3>sure if the board made a call or if he

0:14:15.440 --> 0:14:18.040
<v Speaker 3>were negged on that, but I think Scott had got

0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:23.480
<v Speaker 3>to a point where enough was enough, feel he'd done

0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:29.040
<v Speaker 3>his time. I think certainly Mike's two or three other

0:14:29.120 --> 0:14:33.200
<v Speaker 3>jobs that he had, from some cable through to AGL

0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:38.200
<v Speaker 3>energy and others, it certainly distracted him. Look, take my

0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:40.600
<v Speaker 3>hat off to Mike. I turned up a few years

0:14:40.640 --> 0:14:44.640
<v Speaker 3>ago and saw him talk for an hour on climate change.

0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 3>And he's a scholar. I mean, he knew what he

0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:51.040
<v Speaker 3>was talking about. But all the time he was reading

0:14:51.080 --> 0:14:54.760
<v Speaker 3>those books and becoming a climate change master, Well, hang on,

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:57.960
<v Speaker 3>who's running a lassion. So I think that did begin

0:14:58.080 --> 0:15:01.640
<v Speaker 3>to weigh on Farquhar and and look, he's sort of

0:15:01.680 --> 0:15:04.080
<v Speaker 3>probably not the type that's going to be too scurrilous

0:15:04.240 --> 0:15:07.240
<v Speaker 3>or gossip or anything, but certainly that put him offside.

0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:09.400
<v Speaker 1>Perry. You end the book with what I think is

0:15:09.480 --> 0:15:11.440
<v Speaker 1>quite a touching scene. I'll get you to read it

0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:12.320
<v Speaker 1>for us.

0:15:13.000 --> 0:15:16.160
<v Speaker 3>Now, the house that was once Sydney's most expensive sits empty.

0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:20.600
<v Speaker 3>It's fate undecided. Mike and Annie are separated, both spending

0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:22.840
<v Speaker 3>most of their time in the Southern Highlands, where they

0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:26.280
<v Speaker 3>live at different addresses. Next Door is a lane the

0:15:26.360 --> 0:15:29.320
<v Speaker 3>mention Scott park Choir and Kim Jackson famously bought for

0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:32.400
<v Speaker 3>seventy one million dollars the year before the Cannon Brooks

0:15:32.400 --> 0:15:35.120
<v Speaker 3>is purchased. Next Door, the two families were meant to

0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.840
<v Speaker 3>grow all together, their children playing with each other every day.

0:15:39.800 --> 0:15:42.800
<v Speaker 3>A lane in Fairwater symbols of dreams that didn't quite

0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:46.440
<v Speaker 3>come true, in relationships that didn't quite last despite the

0:15:46.520 --> 0:15:47.840
<v Speaker 3>success once shared.

0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:50.480
<v Speaker 1>Perry and John, thank you very much.

0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:51.040
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:51.560
<v Speaker 3>Thank you.

0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 1>John Stenzel and Perry Williams are the authors of tech Brows.

0:16:03.640 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 1>For all their scoops and the best of business, visit

0:16:06.280 --> 0:16:08.200
<v Speaker 1>the Australian dot Com dot Au