Speaker 1: I'll get a team. It's to you, projectivity and Cook, Patrick,
Speaker 1: James Bonello, Craig, Anthony Harper, just reporting in on a Friday,
Speaker 1: well as Friday as we record. Whenever you hear this
Speaker 1: is whenever you hear it. Let's start with the boy
Speaker 1: in the room. Hi Patrick, it's just going to you.
Speaker 1: TIF didn't you?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: I did? I was ready, Hi Patrick?
Speaker 2: Last episode do you ask for the girl in the room?
Speaker 2: And then came to me and I just thought, you're
Speaker 2: going to be smart again, or try to be I.
Speaker 1: Was going to be more respectful this time. How's the
Speaker 1: land space station where you're currently residing.
Speaker 2: I kind of feel like we need to do a
Speaker 2: screenshot or something so people get a sense of my
Speaker 2: backdrop being a giant space station looking out on a
Speaker 2: planet just hovering.
Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? I know this sounds silly,
Speaker 1: but it like if my mum looked at that and
Speaker 1: I told my mum Patrick's in space, she would believe it.
Speaker 1: It looks literally like you're in space, like you got
Speaker 1: this big round window just looking at it. I don't
Speaker 1: know whatever it is is that the Earth below you
Speaker 1: and the moon in the distance.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yep, yep.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The other thing too is you know, when you and this,
Speaker 2: I've started to this sounds like a real foible of mine,
Speaker 2: but I've started to get annoyed at having zoom meetings
Speaker 2: with people turning on fake backgrounds.
Speaker 1: It is, what do you mean that's a photo of
Speaker 1: the studio. Well, it's not real.
Speaker 2: It's a fake background.
Speaker 1: And you know what a fake background. It's a photo
Speaker 1: of my real studio.
Speaker 2: Exactly, it's a photo. It's fake. And his hair kind
Speaker 2: of starts to disappear. Well, actually that's just age. No,
Speaker 2: but you know, look at his shoulders disappearing and.
Speaker 1: Straight out of the gate. Everyone straight out of the gate,
Speaker 1: attack ups. This is this is what they do. Okay,
Speaker 1: when they're insecure, they just go, let's attack him. Keep going,
Speaker 1: keep going, do your best, not me, keep going, do
Speaker 1: your best. If you can't say anything nice about people,
Speaker 1: don't say any thing. That's what Mary would tell you.
Speaker 1: That's him. He's just that out. Okay. So I'll talk
Speaker 1: to you, Tiff. Tiff, how's your day going.
Speaker 3: It's really good. Thank you, thanks for asking. And I
Speaker 3: think your shoulders look great with the background.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks. I don't know what's wrong with my background.
Speaker 2: When you put your arm up, and.
Speaker 1: Now's interrupting because he's trying to get back in the
Speaker 1: good books.
Speaker 2: I'm not getting back any good books. Hey, Now what
Speaker 2: I mean by you know, when you're hit in a
Speaker 2: zoom meeting or a teams meeting and the people have
Speaker 2: fake backgrounds and they just start to shimmy in and
Speaker 2: out and disappear and re materialize and deep materialize. It's
Speaker 2: like watching an episode of Star Trek and they're all
Speaker 2: about to go on away mission. That's that's started to
Speaker 2: annoy me. Just have your background. And so I decided
Speaker 2: to buy some backdrops. And obviously, because I took like
Speaker 2: tech stuff, I thought a space station scene would be good.
Speaker 2: And that's why it looks more not realistic. You were
Speaker 2: talking about fooling Mary, But the reality of it is,
Speaker 2: I'm not shimming in and out because it's not a
Speaker 2: superimposed background, because it's actually a material picture that's hanging
Speaker 2: on the wall behind me. And that's why it looks
Speaker 2: more authentic.
Speaker 1: All Right, you're better than us. Well done, next Tiff,
Speaker 1: all right you win? Yeah great, I'll tell you what
Speaker 1: when that's your biggest problem is fucking worrying about people's
Speaker 1: backgrounds on Zoom. Your life's good, Champ. Yeah, true, you
Speaker 1: probably find you had to find a real problem. Uh, tiff,
Speaker 1: how are you? What is going on on planet Tiffany?
Speaker 2: Oh? Great stuff, Harts.
Speaker 3: I got up at the crack of dawn. I had
Speaker 3: a seven am appointment with my body magician, as I
Speaker 3: call him, and I got the tick of approval. Things
Speaker 3: are all tracking well, I'd had that tennis or golfers
Speaker 3: elbow rubbish. I've already rehabbed it myself. You give me
Speaker 3: a little pat on the back and sent me on
Speaker 3: my way.
Speaker 2: How was that?
Speaker 1: A couple of things I want to chat about, and
Speaker 1: one is relates to might relate to Patrick, because you
Speaker 1: sent me a gift voucher that we're going to talk about.
Speaker 1: When you say your your magician, what is it? A
Speaker 1: he or she? Doesn't matter? But before it he Okay?
Speaker 1: Is he a cairo, a physio, an osteo, or mio?
Speaker 1: Is he any of the things ending in?
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, he's a sports chiropractic, but he works in
Speaker 3: a thing called neuro something rehabilitation. He does a lot
Speaker 3: of it, does a lot of work with the brain
Speaker 3: and how the brain communicates with the body. He's just
Speaker 3: I just call him a magician because I don't know.
Speaker 3: He never does chiropractic adjustments ever.
Speaker 1: Does he need any more work? Because I'm feeling if
Speaker 1: you share his name, he's going to be inundated. So
Speaker 1: I don't know whether or not weishul.
Speaker 3: He already is in undated. He's hard to get into.
Speaker 3: All my clients get sent to him at some point
Speaker 3: because he is the superior being.
Speaker 1: Well, if he's treating you at seven am, he's busy.
Speaker 1: He's busy. Patrick, do you have a mechanic of sorts
Speaker 1: who works on your your sor like? Do you like
Speaker 1: massage or physio or cairo? Do you like any of
Speaker 1: that stuff?
Speaker 2: Not really. I tend to only do it if I'm
Speaker 2: really falling apart, which luckily not much. I'm so my
Speaker 2: tai chi. I do tai cheese so often now I
Speaker 2: teach it, I participate in it, doing lots of core work.
Speaker 2: We were chatting before the show, so I feel like
Speaker 2: I'm in pretty good nettle at the moment. Does anyone
Speaker 2: say that I'm in good nettle at the moment?
Speaker 4: You and Mary feeling pretty good.
Speaker 2: I used to get some really chronic pain. When I
Speaker 2: was at the gym with you, I used to get
Speaker 2: bad shoulder pain, but that was because.
Speaker 1: It's a shout out, that's a good ad for my work.
Speaker 2: Was it as a result of training with you? Was
Speaker 2: it as a result of sitting in a bloody desk
Speaker 2: on a stool our radio station when I was working
Speaker 2: in news at a company Trip and Fox. When I
Speaker 2: was working for them in the newsroom, he sat on stools,
Speaker 2: unsupported feet, and the keyboard was sitting in front of you,
Speaker 2: and the monitors were sunk into the desk, so you hunched.
Speaker 2: Your natural sitting position was hunched over the monitors. It
Speaker 2: was horrendously bad ergonomics. So I had chronic shoulder pain
Speaker 2: for such a long time and went to lots of
Speaker 2: different people. I don't know if you remember. There was
Speaker 2: an amazing South African lady who was a Cairo and
Speaker 2: a physio. I'm trying to think that name.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it worked at my place, Yeah, absolutely, And what
Speaker 5: I love about her was that she took a very
Speaker 5: broad approach, you know, a holistic approach to looking at
Speaker 5: what was causing your ailments.
Speaker 2: Because I've been to lots of people and she fixed it.
Speaker 1: She was good. I should remember her name. She did
Speaker 1: work in my business. But yeah, no, figure that was
Speaker 1: twenty five years ago.
Speaker 2: It was a while, but I and you know what
Speaker 2: fixed it for me. And this is going to sound weird.
Speaker 2: She gave me a home traction kit where you put
Speaker 2: this neck brace on. You had a clip that was
Speaker 2: fixed to the top of the door, and you put
Speaker 2: water in a bag, so say three leads of water,
Speaker 2: so three kilos and it stretched your neck.
Speaker 1: Well, are you sure that was meant to be rehab
Speaker 1: or something else?
Speaker 2: It?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's that. Actually, neck traction is a real thing.
Speaker 1: It's just a it's a be careful thing.
Speaker 2: Pretty of a professional. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Don't get your kid to yank on your neck while
Speaker 1: you're lying on the kitchen table or something.
Speaker 2: Now, it was under quite strict medical supervision, but it
Speaker 2: fixed everything. Just stretching the old neck was great.
Speaker 1: Now, before we jump into the show proper, I'll go on.
Speaker 2: No, it's just gonna because it was very you know me,
Speaker 2: I give a very long winded answer. So no, I
Speaker 2: don't have a regular person who manipulates my joints and
Speaker 2: touches me all over. But I'm taking applications after the show.
Speaker 1: Okay, just shout out to Patrick if you feel like
Speaker 1: you might be that guy TIV. You sent me a
Speaker 1: message this week to say that you put on some
Speaker 1: inordinate amount of muscle over the last month. You've got
Speaker 1: an inbody or a body contest done. Are you feeling
Speaker 1: quite powerful and strong?
Speaker 3: I'm feeling quite good doing strength training and I'm loving it.
Speaker 3: And it's such a nice shift. And you know, as
Speaker 3: a female that's always been very athletic and very borderline obsessive.
Speaker 3: But you know, I loved that high intensity, calorie burning,
Speaker 3: sweatfesting type of training. It's been a real nice switch.
Speaker 3: And what comes with that is kind of wanting to
Speaker 3: see the scales go up knock down.
Speaker 1: That's hilarious. We watch your I would not ask any
Speaker 1: other woman this but you, because I know you're happy
Speaker 1: with it. What what's your current weight?
Speaker 3: Sixty three?
Speaker 1: How do you feel it that? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 3: Good. And the thing is like, I want to I
Speaker 3: want to put lower body muscle on and the reality
Speaker 3: is I can't do that staying at the same weight
Speaker 3: because it's just physiologically not possible. I can't lose that
Speaker 3: amount of weight to put it on in fat in
Speaker 3: body fat, it'd be too lower body fat.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well you can't. Yeah, I mean, what's that?
Speaker 2: Sorry, Greg, I had to all aids.
Speaker 3: If one sixty just under one sixty eight.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, I'm trying to do this s stare because
Speaker 2: I'm one sixty nine and seventy kilos. It's just yeah,
Speaker 2: that's that's that seems really light to me. But obviously
Speaker 2: your shape is totally different. Yeah.
Speaker 1: No, she doesn't look I mean not, I mean she
Speaker 1: looks jacked, you know. She looks like an athlete, which
Speaker 1: is it's good because that's what she wants to look like.
Speaker 1: So up and Grandpa in the middle of the screen.
Speaker 1: My screen anyway, is eighty kilos, which for me is
Speaker 1: borderline anorexic. I haven't been this light since I was
Speaker 1: about twelve, not even probably eleven. How funny is that?
Speaker 1: People are going, Oh, that's funny. I got No, that's
Speaker 1: actually true. I probably weighed this when I was about
Speaker 1: eleven or twelve.
Speaker 2: But do you remember sitting in a boardroom in an
Speaker 2: advertising agency with me when we were working on a
Speaker 2: project that didn't quite get off the ground, but it
Speaker 2: was just helping people lose weights, and there were a
Speaker 2: number of people, and one of the directors of the
Speaker 2: agency was a kind of a bit of a bigger guy,
Speaker 2: and we were all talking about, you know, collectively losing weight.
Speaker 2: So the idea of the project was instead of losing
Speaker 2: weight individually, you set up a team of people and
Speaker 2: you collectively lost weight, and that way it was more
Speaker 2: of a team effort to help encourage people. But I
Speaker 2: remember saying whilst we were sitting there, saying, yeah, I
Speaker 2: like to lose a couple of kilos, and I was,
Speaker 2: and this guy got kind of really tore shreds off me, saying, oh,
Speaker 2: that's ridiculous. You don't need to lose any ways. But
Speaker 2: it's a very personal journey when we look at weight
Speaker 2: loss and one kilo to me is saying, oh, man,
Speaker 2: I just wish I could lose one or two kilos
Speaker 2: in the grand scale of things. Because a good friend
Speaker 2: of mine we were talking about losing weight and he's
Speaker 2: lost about forty kilos. He's a very big person and
Speaker 2: it's a massive amount to lose for him, but relative
Speaker 2: to his size, he's got a little bit more of
Speaker 2: a journey to go, and he's doing really, really well
Speaker 2: because he's losing it over a span of time, but
Speaker 2: it is a personal journey and it's and you know,
Speaker 2: sometimes people forget that, you know, and you almost face
Speaker 2: ridicule if you say, if you if you present to
Speaker 2: somebody who looks quite fit, but you feel that you'd
Speaker 2: like to lose a little bit, without being obsessive, it
Speaker 2: still is how you feel in your own skin.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's I remember exactly what you're
Speaker 1: talking about and who you're talking about. And what's tricky is,
Speaker 1: especially in twenty twenty five, you can't almost talk about weight.
Speaker 1: You know, I can, and I do. But the problem
Speaker 1: is that when we are talking about physiology and health
Speaker 1: and body composition and subcutaneous fat and visceral fat and
Speaker 1: diabetes and all of the things that kind of float
Speaker 1: around how your body works and what your body is
Speaker 1: made up of, and you know, people almost take that
Speaker 1: as an emotional or psychological judgment or attack. Whereas I'm
Speaker 1: speaking as an exercise scientist and I'm talking about data
Speaker 1: and science, and so without being rude, I don't give
Speaker 1: a fuck what people way. I don't give a fuck
Speaker 1: what they look like. I care about how well their
Speaker 1: body works. But like it or not, there is a
Speaker 1: relationship between weight and how much body fat a person
Speaker 1: is carrying, and they're likely health outcomes. Now that's not
Speaker 1: a guess or a stab or an insult, but when
Speaker 1: you point that out, people would rather find a way
Speaker 1: to get insulted than enlightened, right, And they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're fucking fat shaming. I'm like, I was the fattest
Speaker 1: kid in my school. I know what it's like to
Speaker 1: be obese. I know what it's like to be called jumbo.
Speaker 1: I am not fat shaming. I'm fucking talking about health
Speaker 1: and wellness and coming from a place of literal personal experience,
Speaker 1: you know. And there's that kind of trying to navigate
Speaker 1: that road at the moment publicly when you're talking. It's
Speaker 1: tricky because in many ways it's easier to find a
Speaker 1: way to be offended than it is to take it
Speaker 1: on board as just you know, science or information and
Speaker 1: do something positive with it.
Speaker 2: The AMA, the Australian Medical Association, a few years ago
Speaker 2: were trying to encourage doctors to be more blunts with
Speaker 2: the language they were using and not to gloss over
Speaker 2: the notion that someone might be morbidly obese. And the
Speaker 2: thing is it's such a difficult journey for different people,
Speaker 2: for lots and lots and lots of reasons. And I
Speaker 2: guess that the how do you walk that tight rope
Speaker 2: of glossing over it to protect the person's mental well
Speaker 2: being but also to you know, to say to them
Speaker 2: that you potentially are putting your life at risk by
Speaker 2: maintaining the current status status quo. So I don't know
Speaker 2: that I'd want to be in that space, but it's
Speaker 2: certainly a challenge in every GP and health professional faces.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think, I mean, it is tough because
Speaker 1: of course you care about people, and you have empathy
Speaker 1: and awareness, and you don't want to make people feel bad.
Speaker 1: But also I don't want people that I care about,
Speaker 1: or even people that I don't know that matter. I
Speaker 1: don't want them to wake up in five or ten
Speaker 1: years and have life threatening health conditions because everyone was
Speaker 1: too concerned with their their feelings for the next thirty seconds.
Speaker 1: It's like, I care about your feelings, but it's not
Speaker 1: my job to manage your feelings or work around your emotions.
Speaker 1: I'm literally sharing practical, real world information with you, and
Speaker 1: if you don't want to listen, that's fine. If you
Speaker 1: get upset. That's also fine. I don't want you to
Speaker 1: be upset. But I'm not going to apologize for just
Speaker 1: saying what I know. Like, I've literally worked with tens
Speaker 1: of thousands of bodies, so I'm not guessing you know.
Speaker 1: This is not some random theory and it's it's funny.
Speaker 1: We live in that time where where did Tiff go?
Speaker 1: By the way, Patrick, can hear?
Speaker 2: We can hear, yeah, we can. We're missing you. What's
Speaker 2: going on?
Speaker 3: Well, my screen has frozen, so everything and I can't
Speaker 3: move the cursor or anything, so I can hear you,
Speaker 3: but everything's frozen on my computer screen.
Speaker 2: Don't touch anything. Was doing what you're doing?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just talk from behind that black curtain. I
Speaker 1: don't know what I was going to say, but let's
Speaker 1: talk about Let's talk about the stuff that you're the
Speaker 1: best at, Patrick James.
Speaker 2: I've got a nice segue to that. Because a lot
Speaker 2: more people are turning to AI for health advice, And
Speaker 2: there was a really interesting story about a man who
Speaker 2: became hospitalized with psychiatric psychiatric symptoms following getting after getting
Speaker 2: advice from AI. So this guy was wanting to reduce
Speaker 2: his salt intake. Okay, so he started this whole chat
Speaker 2: with the chatbot, and he decided to set up his
Speaker 2: own health plan and thought, I've got to reduce my
Speaker 2: salt intake. So he basically found a substitute by talking
Speaker 2: to chat JPT and it suggested sodium instead of sodium
Speaker 2: chloride and you can swap them around if you're going
Speaker 2: to be cleaning a bath tub but yesting it. So yeah,
Speaker 2: he went and bought this stuff online and thought, oh,
Speaker 2: I'm going to reduce my salting take with it, but
Speaker 2: with different sort of salt. So he's just eating this
Speaker 2: over three months he's decided to take this on and
Speaker 2: then after that time he started, he ended up in
Speaker 2: the emergency department with paranoid delusions and he believed that
Speaker 2: his neighbor was trying to poison him. In fact, he
Speaker 2: was poisoning himself. And that's because he'd listened to advice
Speaker 2: health advice, and that the chatbot didn't really discern that
Speaker 2: it was about him taking it. It's just well, what's
Speaker 2: an alternative to salt, and that's what ended up happening.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's a really timely reminded that everything that
Speaker 2: you see may not necessarily be the right sort of
Speaker 2: advice when you jump into a you know, you chat,
Speaker 2: GPTs or whatever it is that you're using. So that
Speaker 2: was a very vivid ex you.
Speaker 1: Know, that's that's bloody amazing. I mean imagine, yeah, well
Speaker 1: that that's one of the dangers, isn't it. I mean,
Speaker 1: that's a danger of I think how much, how much
Speaker 1: we pay attention to rely on trust and I think
Speaker 1: everything even though you know, I think we both agree
Speaker 1: that AI has got unbelievable potential and unbelievable capacity to
Speaker 1: be of value. It's also you know, it can also
Speaker 1: do untold harm if not used the right way, and
Speaker 1: if perhaps trusted in inverted commas when it shouldn't be trusted.
Speaker 2: So oh yeah, And there's a lot of AI slop
Speaker 2: out there as well. And in fact Wikipedia, I don't
Speaker 2: know if you use Wikipedia much, but I tend to
Speaker 2: find it still pops up and I have a bit
Speaker 2: of a read, you know, whether it's a profile or
Speaker 2: something like that. But they're battling AI at the moment
Speaker 2: because Wikipedia is managed by a whole stack of volunteers,
Speaker 2: and a lot of them a pandemics. So these people
Speaker 2: who are really passionate about keeping the content out there.
Speaker 2: So I guess it's like the Internet version of the
Speaker 2: Encyclopedia Britannica. You know, it's the traditional encyclopedic format to
Speaker 2: be able to give you information on a whole host
Speaker 2: of things. But what they've always taken a lot of
Speaker 2: pride in is the way that they fact check and
Speaker 2: the way that the volunteers try to make sure that
Speaker 2: the content that's on Wikipedia is proper, you know, whether
Speaker 2: it's scientifically based or information based, it's you know, it's
Speaker 2: a rigid way to kind of you know, keep the
Speaker 2: system in place. But the problem now is that this
Speaker 2: AI slop is being pushed out and anybody can contribute,
Speaker 2: but then there's the fact checking that goes with it.
Speaker 2: So they call the people who moderator called wikipedians, and
Speaker 2: they go through all of this and what they're trying
Speaker 2: they literally have to read the written articles, they have
Speaker 2: to go through and they're trying to monitor what's being
Speaker 2: proposed and they're getting good at finding the crap stuff
Speaker 2: and there's a process that they go through, but they
Speaker 2: are really working hard and typically articles that get flagged
Speaker 2: then have a seven day discussion period. So it's a
Speaker 2: pierce peer thing goes out other people in the community,
Speaker 2: members who moderators, and they determine whether or not the
Speaker 2: sites should be you know, should they should delete the article.
Speaker 2: So they feel it's quite robust, but they're kind of
Speaker 2: fighting a bit of an uphill battle at the moment
Speaker 2: to try to keep Wikipedia as you know, AI free
Speaker 2: as possible. But there's so much slop. I read an
Speaker 2: article a little while ago that said fifty one percent
Speaker 2: of all content on the Internet now is AI generated.
Speaker 2: That scared the shit out of me. That's pretty scary
Speaker 2: to think of that sort of content. But maybe at
Speaker 2: the moment, Wikipedia seems like they're doing what they can
Speaker 2: through a whole horde of volunteers.
Speaker 1: Overall, just one word or the other. Are you pro
Speaker 1: or anti AI? Just overall? P Yeah? Cool, Tiff, where
Speaker 1: you've been?
Speaker 3: I fell fell off My Carl computer just shut down
Speaker 3: and said we've needed to shut you down.
Speaker 2: You didn't.
Speaker 1: Patrick was just we've been talking about you for three minutes.
Speaker 1: Tiff actually fell off the podcast. Now she's gone, I'll
Speaker 1: tell you what. She's having Internet problems. She actually dropped
Speaker 1: right out. There was just Patrick and I on the
Speaker 1: screen for the moment. It's a good thing I'm recording
Speaker 1: from this end, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's true, it certainly is. Tif's flashing in my window.
Speaker 1: Well, there's a thought I'm not even gonna. I'm not
Speaker 1: even gonna. I don't I reckon yep, Oh, so many things,
Speaker 1: you know, Like I have this thing where I play
Speaker 1: this verbal scenario out in my head on fast forward
Speaker 1: before I'm going to say it, and on rare occasions
Speaker 1: I choose not to say it.
Speaker 2: Today's that well, except for the stuff we've had to
Speaker 2: edit out of the show. At the start of the
Speaker 2: show because it's been heavily edited listeners, it started off
Speaker 2: pretty well.
Speaker 1: That's because I went very dark, and I'm like, I
Speaker 1: self edited.
Speaker 2: Actually talking about dark. I think I feel I need
Speaker 2: to work this into the conversation now scenes we're talking
Speaker 2: about AI and Dark. You know the problem with AI,
Speaker 2: and we talked about this in a previous show where
Speaker 2: I did some testing with AI and I asked to
Speaker 2: get some image generation and you might recall that I
Speaker 2: wanted to see what would happen if I asked AI
Speaker 2: to generate a picture of Alexander the Great with his lover,
Speaker 2: and the initial pictures were of Alexander the Great with
Speaker 2: a female and then we now know except for Gemini,
Speaker 2: which was interesting because Gemini is Google's AI, and it
Speaker 2: pulled up a whole lot of factual information about the
Speaker 2: fact that it's thought that Alexander the Great had a
Speaker 2: male lover. And then when I got Meta to try
Speaker 2: to generate the picture, when I corrected it and said
Speaker 2: I no, no, I don't want a female lover, I
Speaker 2: want a male lover, it refused to generate it, saying
Speaker 2: it was inappropriate content. So it's interesting because when we
Speaker 2: think about who programs these AI and what are the
Speaker 2: biases that are built into it. You know, if you
Speaker 2: just type in you know young female or young male,
Speaker 2: or you type in you know man working, generally, it's
Speaker 2: going to be a white person. It's not going to
Speaker 2: be a person of Asian origin or a person with
Speaker 2: dark skin. So sometimes there's been a lot of biases
Speaker 2: that have been picked up. But what creeped me out
Speaker 2: a lot reading this article is Meta had some rules
Speaker 2: that they've been picked up on. So there was an
Speaker 2: internal investor in an investigation by Reuters, the news service,
Speaker 2: and they reckon that the social media giant had a
Speaker 2: rule for their chatbots, which permitted them to have a
Speaker 2: provocative kind of behavior when talking to children, including issues
Speaker 2: around sex. And so there were documents talking about what
Speaker 2: was appropriate behavior and what wasn't and they were condoning, effectively,
Speaker 2: the notion that the the the AI chatbot could engage
Speaker 2: in child conversations with romantic or sensual information related to that.
Speaker 2: So Reuters said that basically the document that it saw
Speaker 2: from Meta discussed the standards that its guidelines were based on,
Speaker 2: and the chatbot this is we're talking Facebook, WhatsApp, Instagram,
Speaker 2: And they confirmed the document's authenticity and said that effectively,
Speaker 2: it could say things to children about how so an
Speaker 2: eight year old could have the chatbot say your body
Speaker 2: looks in a certain way, it could in a sensual way. Effectively,
Speaker 2: is how it was looking at And so if an
Speaker 2: eight year old asked how its body, how their body looked,
Speaker 2: they could say it looks like a masterpiece, you know,
Speaker 2: a sensual masterpiece. There was some really creepy kind of
Speaker 2: terminology in there. And the concern is that this was
Speaker 2: vetted internally by the people who are providing the chatbots,
Speaker 2: and they're saying, well, yeah, it's okay for the AI
Speaker 2: chatbot to talk to children about sexual things or sensual things,
Speaker 2: but then when it was flagged by Reuters, they removed it.
Speaker 2: So the thing is they have ethicists who work for them,
Speaker 2: and they vetted this and said it was okay, and
Speaker 2: then Reuters pulls out an article and they say, well, actually,
Speaker 2: what you've got here isn't good. So the term that
Speaker 2: was used this is a shirtless eight year old. Every
Speaker 2: inch ofview is a masterpiece. Is the terminology that they
Speaker 2: said was okay as far as Meta was concerned. And
Speaker 2: now of course it's been picked up by Reuters and
Speaker 2: they're going a little bit more strict on that policy.
Speaker 2: But this is the frightening thought that who is training
Speaker 2: the AI and what's the background, what are their standards,
Speaker 2: what are their morals, what are their values? And you know,
Speaker 2: when you're pulling all this information in and then you
Speaker 2: know there's a bias that then gets adapted to the AI,
Speaker 2: which is then born out in the results that it's
Speaker 2: giving us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like who, as you alluded, Like who says
Speaker 1: that that's okay? Like ultimately there must be someone somewhere
Speaker 1: giving the green light or the thumbs up or whatever.
Speaker 1: The whatever the equivalent is, the virtual equivalent, say this
Speaker 1: is that stuff? It actually makes me angry. It makes
Speaker 1: me quite fucked off that that's even a thing that
Speaker 1: needs to or not needs to, but that exists. Is
Speaker 1: anything anything around the abuse or exploitation or of kids.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, I just have this. It fucking
Speaker 1: annoys me a lot. And adults who perpetuate that or
Speaker 1: facilitate or allow or promote that, fuck you, all of you,
Speaker 1: like I just don't like it.
Speaker 2: And on the flip side, there's a few Australian businesses
Speaker 2: I don't know if you've seen this in the media recently,
Speaker 2: where businesses that potentially might do say early childhood photography,
Speaker 2: so they take photos of kids with mums and babes
Speaker 2: and things like that. Well, there's been a couple of
Speaker 2: instances where businesses have been shut out of their social
Speaker 2: media because the imagery has been flagged by the AI
Speaker 2: as inappropriate and potentially child pornography, when in fact it wasn't.
Speaker 2: But there's no appeal process that seems to be robust
Speaker 2: enough to have a real human look at it. So
Speaker 2: there have been businesses that have been said that they
Speaker 2: do all their promotion to all of their customers online
Speaker 2: and they rely on Facebook, they rely on Instagram, and
Speaker 2: they've been booted off for having inappropriate images. And I
Speaker 2: guess that's where you know, Wikipedia is doing it right
Speaker 2: with the human oversight. But as these mega companies just
Speaker 2: get bigger and bigger and bigger and are using AI
Speaker 2: to decide whether TIFF's photograph as a child, because she
Speaker 2: wants to show what she looked like as a kid
Speaker 2: and what she looks like as an adult, may be
Speaker 2: flagged as inappropriate. Well, your social media could be switched off,
Speaker 2: you know, if it's a day at the beach and
Speaker 2: Tiff shows herself as a kid, you know of running
Speaker 2: into the water or running out of the water with
Speaker 2: dad holding her hand, or something that could potentially be
Speaker 2: flagged and then your social media will be switched off
Speaker 2: instantly overnight. And then what's the process to then go through?
Speaker 2: And in fact, the a Triple C is looking that
Speaker 2: the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission is looking at putting
Speaker 2: pressure and potentially calling for legislation to force these big
Speaker 2: tech companies to have a better and more robust system
Speaker 2: of appeal that's not going just through an automated system,
Speaker 2: but where there is rapid response, not weeks and months
Speaker 2: of response time to try to get your social media
Speaker 2: back up again if it accidentally gets flagged. So I mean,
Speaker 2: it's problematic on both sides. And that's the challenge, isn't it.
Speaker 2: When you take humans out of the equation and you're
Speaker 2: relying on an algorithm, then that's where it becomes a problem.
Speaker 2: And if they're taking you, I mean, and the other
Speaker 2: thing I guess is, you know, at the moment, Facebook
Speaker 2: is pushing businesses to pay now to have a you know,
Speaker 2: to be able to have a kind of a subscription
Speaker 2: process to make it easier for them to validate their business.
Speaker 2: So if you want to validate your business, you can
Speaker 2: pay for that to happen now. And I guess there
Speaker 2: was going to be a point at which they wanted
Speaker 2: to get some money for you know, all those hundreds
Speaker 2: of millions of sites out there that rely on social
Speaker 2: media for marketing. The reality of it is when we
Speaker 2: get something for free, we lose control of our data
Speaker 2: and information. Because you know, everything we think is free,
Speaker 2: whether it's Gmail or whatever it is, Facebook and Instagram,
Speaker 2: it's not really free. It's just giving them all the
Speaker 2: content that we put up there.
Speaker 1: Wow, that was quite the monologue. Fucking hell. I could
Speaker 1: have gone and made lunch, hat it grown a beard
Speaker 1: out of shave and come back.
Speaker 2: You actually listen at all, Like I was listening.
Speaker 1: I was waiting for a break.
Speaker 2: It's good.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, it's all good. It's you know, here's
Speaker 1: the absolute truth.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: I shouldn't say this, but everything you said makes sense. One,
Speaker 1: but this kind of exploitation. I don't know why, but
Speaker 1: there's something in me. It makes me fucking angry the
Speaker 1: way that people it's not just kids, but it's anyone
Speaker 1: who can't really protect themselves and anyone you know, like
Speaker 1: my mum who like people wring my mum regularly and
Speaker 1: try and scammer. It makes me so angry, which I
Speaker 1: know is not a solution, and it's probably a flow
Speaker 1: of mine, but I just get incensed and I just
Speaker 1: want to, Like, honestly, I want to change the fucking topic.
Speaker 1: That's what I feel like. But I think it's good
Speaker 1: that we talk about it. That's the truth. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that stuff that kind of pushes a button in me,
Speaker 1: you Patrick or no.
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely it does, absolutely.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know I'm the problem. But yeah, it's like if.
Speaker 2: You ask me the question earlier, AI good or bad?
Speaker 2: So I'm going to post it to you and Tiff
Speaker 2: Crago AI good or bad?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a good question that I asked it you.
Speaker 1: I think overall, I think overall it's an amazing tool.
Speaker 1: So I'm going to say good. But my caveat is
Speaker 1: I don't think AI of itself is good or bad
Speaker 1: in the sense that it depends what we do with it. See,
Speaker 1: I know that I can give you a bunch of
Speaker 1: tools and resources, and because I know you, you're going
Speaker 1: to do You're either not going to use them or
Speaker 1: you're going to do something positive with them, right because
Speaker 1: I know you and I trust you, and I know
Speaker 1: your values. But give those same tools and resources like
Speaker 1: your knowledge, right, You've You've got pretty expansive knowledge in
Speaker 1: their space. Somebody with your knowledge who doesn't have your
Speaker 1: values or internal sat NAV, they could do some horrible shit.
Speaker 1: So it's not so much about the AI or the tools,
Speaker 1: or the technical capacity of whatever, or the technological capacity.
Speaker 1: It's about who's doing what with it. Like I would gladly,
Speaker 1: I would trust you with pretty much anything. I would
Speaker 1: go well, Patrick's doing it, So I'm fine, But there
Speaker 1: are most people or many people that I wouldn't, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. So I still think it comes
Speaker 1: back to the user. And as you said, nothing's for nothing.
Speaker 1: So when people are letting you have this resource or
Speaker 1: this tool or whatever for free, it ain't for free.
Speaker 2: There's a tech company in the US called in Vision
Speaker 2: and they work with kind of disability technology and using
Speaker 2: tech to help people with disabilities. And they've partnered with
Speaker 2: a company that makes glasses called Solos and they've just
Speaker 2: launched a new camera equipped called the Alley's Solos Glasses.
Speaker 2: And what they they've made is a set of glasses
Speaker 2: with cameras built into them for people who are vision
Speaker 2: impaired and blind. And what they do is they can
Speaker 2: translate text, they can describe the surroundings in real time,
Speaker 2: search the web, recognize people object signs, so if you're
Speaker 2: vision impaired, and they have speakers built into the arms
Speaker 2: of the glasses, so someone who's vision impaired can effectively
Speaker 2: use these to decode the life around them. You know,
Speaker 2: they can be walking down the street, they can use
Speaker 2: a navigation it's three meters away, but watch out as
Speaker 2: a fire hydrant on the right hand side, you know,
Speaker 2: to your right. It's literally describing the world around them
Speaker 2: and it recognizes like all these Craig Harper quick change over,
Speaker 2: go to the other side out of the street, all
Speaker 2: these tears hurtful. But isn't that amazing? And so there's
Speaker 2: the practical example of this tech. Now they've got a
Speaker 2: they're doing a limited release US about four hundred bucks
Speaker 2: at the moment. They're going to end up being I
Speaker 2: think seven hundred dollars US and a couple of different
Speaker 2: frame sizes and all that sort of stuff. But that
Speaker 2: uses chet chepte before and they use an AI assistant
Speaker 2: called Ali, and it's just going to be a groundbreaker
Speaker 2: for people who are vision impaired, and I think more
Speaker 2: so I know people. You know a friend of mine
Speaker 2: who went blind progressively in his late teenage years, and
Speaker 2: he's a real uh you know, he's a real petrol
Speaker 2: head too, So it's it's amazing he's got these He's
Speaker 2: got this amazing car that he's helping or he's getting,
Speaker 2: you know, fixed up, and it's looking phenomenal, but he
Speaker 2: can't see the car abscribed to him. But to lose
Speaker 2: your vision progressively. But then again, when I have interacted
Speaker 2: with people who have been blind all their lives, they
Speaker 2: say that they don't necessarily want to have smart glasses
Speaker 2: that will describe the world around them because they've grown
Speaker 2: up in that world of having no visions. So I
Speaker 2: guess it depends on the stage of life that you're
Speaker 2: in whether these would be useful. But I think for
Speaker 2: most people who could potentially navigate the world and be
Speaker 2: more autonomous, that would be fantastic, wouldn't it.
Speaker 1: Oh mate, that's at the very very positive end of
Speaker 1: the AI scale. Yeah, I'm with you. That's amazing. I
Speaker 1: have a selfish question I want to ask you, which
Speaker 1: is not on your list?
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: So, my internet at the moment is shit, and every day,
Speaker 1: like I've been trying to get someone out here to
Speaker 1: fix my internet and every day so I'm having to
Speaker 1: hotspot from my phone. So my internet in my house
Speaker 1: now is my phone. Like right now we're running, the
Speaker 1: internet is coming from my phone. Starlink. Tell me what
Speaker 1: starlink is? I can't know your shape, Can your head
Speaker 1: tell me what it is?
Speaker 2: Do we like it?
Speaker 1: Do we not like it? Firstly, just explain to people
Speaker 1: what Starlink is if you would and then give us
Speaker 1: the pros and cons, and you've only got three minutes,
Speaker 1: not ten.
Speaker 2: Go Elon Musk launches his Starlink satellite network low orbit
Speaker 2: satellites which mean that your point of contact is directly
Speaker 2: above you, but they're in low Earth orbit, which means
Speaker 2: it's created effectively and a whole network around the planet.
Speaker 2: So potentially Starlink could allow you to be able to
Speaker 2: if you're in a camper trailer in the middle of Australia,
Speaker 2: there's no phone signal, but you'll have Starlink because it's
Speaker 2: low orbit satellites, so that's basically getting your Internet. And
Speaker 2: it's really good as an alternative to the NBN's Skymuster
Speaker 2: because Skymuster is just a big ass like satellite that
Speaker 2: beams it down, whereas this is lots of little micro satellites.
Speaker 2: That's where starlink works. The only disadvantage I guess is
Speaker 2: starlink isn't so good in built up areas. If you've
Speaker 2: got buildings around you, it doesn't work as well. And
Speaker 2: also you know you should be on really good Internet
Speaker 2: through the NBN. So Starlink is totally independent of our
Speaker 2: current terrestrial I guess network here. So when you deal
Speaker 2: with Telstra, Optus and all the other local providers, you're
Speaker 2: getting the NBN to the National Broadband Network, which is
Speaker 2: the backbone of all the Internet services that we get
Speaker 2: in Australia. Star is totally separate. It's an independent company
Speaker 2: and you're buying the Internet through Elon Musk effectively. And
Speaker 2: that's right. So it's good if you're in a wide
Speaker 2: open spaces, if you're in rural areas, but it's not
Speaker 2: as good in city areas, in built up areas, it
Speaker 2: may not be as good for you. I certainly wouldn't
Speaker 2: be looking at that as an alternative, particularly because at
Speaker 2: the moment in September, if people are listening to this
Speaker 2: around about this time, all the speeds NBN is going
Speaker 2: to increase, all the speeds to home Internet users, depending
Speaker 2: on what sort of Internet connection you've got at your house. Crago,
Speaker 2: did that kind of makes about what starling you?
Speaker 1: No, that's great, that's great. I mean that answers my question.
Speaker 1: I knew you. I knew you wouldn't know the answer
Speaker 1: to that. Tell me about the Chinese researchers who have
Speaker 1: unveiled the world's larger scale brain like computer called the
Speaker 1: Darwin Monkey.
Speaker 2: I love that they've called it the Darwin Monkey, don't you.
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it.
Speaker 2: So they've built a massive computer, but they've tried to
Speaker 2: use what they're calling a brain like interface, and that
Speaker 2: they call it newomorphic brain like computer. So they're trying
Speaker 2: to simulate the neurons of the human brain, and they're
Speaker 2: saying this has got too bigger neurons, so this can
Speaker 2: mimic the workings of Now they're not saying human being
Speaker 2: because they're nowhere near what a human being is, but
Speaker 2: they reckon that they can they can mimic basically a
Speaker 2: monkey's brain in the way that it works, and that's
Speaker 2: that's why they've called it the Darwin Monkey, which I
Speaker 2: thought was kind of cute. Nothing to do with up North,
Speaker 2: we're talking a different Darwin, yep. But I thought that's
Speaker 2: really interesting because you know, computers traditionally work off a
Speaker 2: totally different system of processing, whereas this is going to
Speaker 2: try to mimic what a brain in the functioning of
Speaker 2: a brain. So that's what I thought was kind of
Speaker 2: is interesting about this. You know, who knows in the
Speaker 2: future if they could, you know, would you upload your
Speaker 2: brain to a computer crago if they could mimic all
Speaker 2: the neurons and that would that really be you?
Speaker 1: Ah? That well? See that's the philosophical six thousand dollars
Speaker 1: spiritual question, isn't It's like who knows? Who knows? But
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think so. But that would
Speaker 1: be interesting. But something I am interested in, which I've
Speaker 1: thought about a lot, which you've written this question. I
Speaker 1: didn't read the actual story. But humans keep building robots
Speaker 1: that are shaped like us. So robots that are shaped
Speaker 1: like humans? What's the point? And I've always thought this.
Speaker 1: I've thought, like to try to build a robot that's
Speaker 1: bipedal and walks and is six foot tall? And why
Speaker 1: would you? I get it because humans identify goa kind
Speaker 1: of looks like me, and it can talk, and it's
Speaker 1: got in inverted commas eyes and arms and legs, And
Speaker 1: I get it from a psychology point of view that
Speaker 1: humans might relate better to something that looks like it.
Speaker 1: But I would think from a function and an engineering
Speaker 1: point of view, it'd be much easier to have something
Speaker 1: that's much more practical and functional that isn't shaped like
Speaker 1: a human like I don't know, a little box that
Speaker 1: ain't going to fall over or you know what I mean, Oh,
Speaker 1: a dog, I'd go four legs, I reckon that would
Speaker 1: be a much better option if you're going to design
Speaker 1: a robot to go up and down hills and navigate.
Speaker 1: I mean, think about a wheelchair system that had four
Speaker 1: legs as opposed to two legs. The balance that goes
Speaker 1: into kind of coordinating bipedle as opposed to well they exist. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but also you think about the dog. You think about
Speaker 1: you know that MIT motherfucker that they built. You know,
Speaker 1: have you seen that tip that to look at the
Speaker 1: MIT Capital MIT robot dog that they're that they're using
Speaker 1: for warfare, And yeah, these things are as you suggest,
Speaker 1: just the fact that they've got four legs not two,
Speaker 1: they're much more stable.
Speaker 2: Cleo, Cleo, the robot dog. But look, it does make it.
Speaker 2: You're ponder this because you've heard the term the uncanny valley,
Speaker 2: have you, Yeah? Yeah, So the uncanny valley was coined
Speaker 2: by a Japanese robot research and robotics research in the
Speaker 2: nineteen seventies, and what he discovered was the more you
Speaker 2: make a robot look like a human being, it gets
Speaker 2: to a point where the fakeness of it, so you
Speaker 2: put eye lashes on it. You have a mouth moves,
Speaker 2: but you know instinctively that it's not a human being.
Speaker 2: But the mouth is moving, but the you know, this
Speaker 2: doesn't have proper skin texture, or the muscles don't the
Speaker 2: musculature isn't the same, and it gets to a point
Speaker 2: where it starts to look creepy. So if you've got
Speaker 2: a screen on a robot with a smiley emoji, then
Speaker 2: I can deal with that. But if you've got lips
Speaker 2: that are moving and fake skin, that's the uncanny valley.
Speaker 2: That's where it looks that little bit creepy because it's
Speaker 2: not real.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and but we know that it's not real.
Speaker 1: But in another thing, which I know you know, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure Tiff knows and our listeners know, but more
Speaker 1: and more people are having relationships in inverted commas with
Speaker 1: with bots, you know, and people are marrying them. I
Speaker 1: saw a Japanese dude marrying his Japanese bride, yeah, and
Speaker 1: the whole bunch of people at the wedding, and I'm like, okay,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I don't know how that's going to work.
Speaker 2: The ABC had an article that I read a couple
Speaker 2: of days ago, and you could probably find it pretty
Speaker 2: easily about a woman who has got some emotional problems
Speaker 2: and she'd been in a relationship with a chatbot for
Speaker 2: four years. And I think she was on the NDIS
Speaker 2: and her care a talked to the chatbot as well,
Speaker 2: so she had a conversation, but she felt she was
Speaker 2: in an authentic relationship with the chatbot, and she lives
Speaker 2: her daily life. She gets up in the morning, starts
Speaker 2: talking to her chatbot, and then when people come in
Speaker 2: to visit her, they interact with the chat bot as well.
Speaker 2: And there's no question, and I know we've spoken about
Speaker 2: this many times, but developing a relationship with an AI,
Speaker 2: with a chatbot or a robot, as that happens. If
Speaker 2: you finally do have an autonomous bipedal robot in your
Speaker 2: home making you your soup for lunch, there's no question
Speaker 2: that you would probably interact with. I mean, God, the
Speaker 2: amount that I talked to my dog, I can imagine
Speaker 2: what it be like if I had a robot walking
Speaker 2: around the house talking to me. I mean, Fritz doesn't
Speaker 2: even talk back to me that I know, just a
Speaker 2: monologue for me. Which is really hard to do.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I can imagine you must really struggle with that.
Speaker 1: That poor dog. Has he ever jump under the fucking
Speaker 1: couch and put a cushion over his head?
Speaker 2: Wow? No, dogs are amazingly resilient and of coase it.
Speaker 2: Don't forget I'm the person who walks and feeds him
Speaker 2: and plays with him, so you know he knows on
Speaker 2: which side.
Speaker 1: He's bread has butted? What's what's his vocabulary? How many
Speaker 1: actual words? We're digressing, We'll get back on track. But
Speaker 1: how many actual words do you reckon he understands?
Speaker 2: That's a really good question. I've often thought about that
Speaker 2: because I was reading a book and I can't think
Speaker 2: of the name of it a little while ago, where
Speaker 2: the character in the book was determined to teach their
Speaker 2: dog six hundred words. It was a very cute story,
Speaker 2: and the dog was really smart. I don't know how
Speaker 2: many words he knows? I think t if you could
Speaker 2: probably answer the as well. Having got a dog yourself,
Speaker 2: do you give Luna other names? Like the most pet
Speaker 2: owners have about three or four names for their dogs.
Speaker 2: She Yeah, mine does too, Yeah does as well, So
Speaker 2: I've got multiple names. But as far as what he
Speaker 2: can understand. I mean, he certainly what really staggers me.
Speaker 2: And I remember a friend of mine, her father had
Speaker 2: a sheep farm and he was ill and had to
Speaker 2: go to hospital, and they had a working dog that
Speaker 2: would round up the sheep in the bottom paddock and
Speaker 2: bring them up to the top paddock. And they were
Speaker 2: trying to get the dog to bring the sheep up,
Speaker 2: and they didn't know what the command was. They know
Speaker 2: the dog was really smart, but they couldn't work out
Speaker 2: what the command was. And eventually they got a message
Speaker 2: to the father and he said, oh, no, it's not
Speaker 2: a verbal command. I just flick my eyes to the
Speaker 2: left and the dog knows to go up the hill
Speaker 2: and bring the sheep up. So that's how subtle the
Speaker 2: interaction was. And I know with Fritz, I can just
Speaker 2: point to the ground in a certain way, or put
Speaker 2: my palm flat to the ground and he'll drop. And
Speaker 2: then I turned my palm and he rolls over. So
Speaker 2: those sorts of things. So when it comes to words,
Speaker 2: it probably knows a few of them, but he certainly
Speaker 2: knows actions and movements as well, and hand gestures. So
Speaker 2: I guess if you wanted to spend a lot of time.
Speaker 2: Friends of mine just found these little electronic tiles at
Speaker 2: the opshop and you can there buttons that you record
Speaker 2: you on your voice, So it might be I want
Speaker 2: to go outside, and then you train your dog to
Speaker 2: hit the button to send you the message I want
Speaker 2: to go outside, I want to go outside, I want
Speaker 2: to treat, and you can train the dog to hit
Speaker 2: the buttons for the different things that it wants you
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 1: That wouldn't be annoying at three am at all, I
Speaker 1: want to treat. Your phone is covered in germs. I'm like, like,
Speaker 1: this is one of the stories, just quickly before you
Speaker 1: tell us about it. I was talking to a lady
Speaker 1: who's a microbiologist and she's like, you know what creates
Speaker 1: more more sickness than all the germs on whatever is
Speaker 1: the propensity that we now have to try to sanitize
Speaker 1: the whole world? And who was it someone on the
Speaker 1: show they were talking about we need germs, like we
Speaker 1: need germs, We need you know, we need a level
Speaker 1: of germs so that our immune system has to deal
Speaker 1: and cope and adapt. And when we put ourselves in
Speaker 1: our kids and in a completely or close as we
Speaker 1: can sanitized environment. Then when we do get exposed to something,
Speaker 1: which inevitably we will, we have no resistance, like we
Speaker 1: have no immunity because we're always nerfing the world. So
Speaker 1: I reckon, let your phone be dirty, That's what I think.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, we've had this conversation, and it's the pre
Speaker 2: flush or pre wipe and post wipe phone use. So
Speaker 2: you know when you go to the toilet. We all
Speaker 2: know we take our phones to the toilet. Don't lie,
Speaker 2: you know you do, right, my popuy is the pre
Speaker 2: wipe policy, so the second that I start wiping, the
Speaker 2: phone doesn't get touched again until I've washed my hand.
Speaker 2: So pre wipe you can use your phone. Post post wipe,
Speaker 2: you can't touch your vote until you've washed your hair.
Speaker 1: I saw a show on your favorite station, the ab C,
Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and it was talking about this,
Speaker 1: and it was talking about one of the you know
Speaker 1: what fecal matter is is bits of pooh. They were
Speaker 1: talking about you know what has pooh on it? And
Speaker 1: one of the things that's got a pretty liberal smattering
Speaker 1: of pooh on it is your toothbrush. Because yeah, because
Speaker 1: it's generally or for a lot of people it's within
Speaker 1: a meter or two of the toilet, so and a
Speaker 1: pretty simple way to offset that is to I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't because I've never watched anyone else. Let's not
Speaker 1: go there. But I always shut the lid when I flush.
Speaker 1: Do you shut the lid when you flush? Tip, Yes, yep,
Speaker 1: because if you don't, you kind of just spray shit
Speaker 1: literally around the room.
Speaker 2: Did I talk about the next level of paranoia? My
Speaker 2: toothbrush sits in a cupboard, so I close the cupboard
Speaker 2: and that way it's not exposed to any flushing potential. Well,
Speaker 2: the thing is because I have a home based office
Speaker 2: and so my main bathroom does get used by staff,
Speaker 2: but it's also the same bathroom that has my toothbrush
Speaker 2: in it, so my toothbrush is definitely cleep behind.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you don't want me to come to your house
Speaker 1: because you know where I'm going to look on what
Speaker 1: I'm going to do with it. I'm going to I'm
Speaker 1: just going to clean my nuts with your toothbrush and
Speaker 1: then give it a just pop it back in. You're welcome,
Speaker 1: thanks for that. So what I was doing one more champ,
Speaker 1: one more champ.
Speaker 2: Is going to say, don't clean your like. Yes, so
Speaker 2: there are lots of micro organisms on your phone, but
Speaker 2: don't be careful what you wipe the phone down with.
Speaker 2: Anything above like an alcohol wipe over seventy percent is
Speaker 2: going to damage the screen of your phone. So be
Speaker 2: aware that what you clean your sunglasses with may not
Speaker 2: necessarily be the right thing to clean your phone with
Speaker 2: because the screen is touch sensitive.
Speaker 1: So a bit of old windex, yes or no?
Speaker 2: Well, that's a good question. A bit of old index.
Speaker 2: I'd have to look at what the chemical content is.
Speaker 2: Just YouTube? It can you use in index to clean your phone?
Speaker 3: Hey?
Speaker 2: If can you look it up for us? Is that
Speaker 2: all right? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Chat GP t it? I reckon that that'd be that'll
Speaker 1: be quicker. No, really, fuck YouTube, it's not the nineties.
Speaker 2: Hey, you know what you're here? YouTube? Google says no,
Speaker 2: you can ah see No, why not?
Speaker 3: Contains ammonia, which can damage your anti glare coating discolouration.
Speaker 3: Windex is pretty pretty shit chemical that way, you.
Speaker 1: Know, it's pretty good. Hanky in a bit of spit,
Speaker 1: that's what Mary, that's what you're on there? That was Patrick?
Speaker 2: Did you want one more? Did you say?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 2: Go on?
Speaker 1: Be quick?
Speaker 2: Okay? Drivers in wa right, wait for this, and this
Speaker 2: is probably happening all over Australia, but this is an
Speaker 2: article from Western Australia. They're hitting the mute on annoying
Speaker 2: car safety technology. And I've got friends who've done this
Speaker 2: as well. They don't like lane assists, so they turn
Speaker 2: off lane assists. They don't like the car warning them
Speaker 2: that they're going too fast, so they turn it off.
Speaker 2: And it seems like this is a survey that was
Speaker 2: done in Western Australia by Double Ami, the insurance company,
Speaker 2: and they said twenty three percent admitted to having turning
Speaker 2: off or dialing down car safety features, and seventy two
Speaker 2: percent say noises and lights are distracting. So they find
Speaker 2: all those noises and lights and you know when someone
Speaker 2: overtakes you and the light blinks and a noise might
Speaker 2: come up to say that there's someone in your blind spot.
Speaker 2: But most drivers, so seventy two percent of drivers says
Speaker 2: they didn't like all those noises in their cars, and
Speaker 2: twenty three percent of turning them off.
Speaker 1: I agree with them, but I don't know how to
Speaker 1: turn anything off. My new car is my new car
Speaker 1: is it's essentially a computer. It's like I don't know
Speaker 1: if it can do one hundred things I know how
Speaker 1: to do. For I do not know how to use
Speaker 1: that car other than drive it and park it and
Speaker 1: lock it and unlock it. It just does so much
Speaker 1: shit that's beyond mine.
Speaker 2: Next time I'm over, let's go for a drive and
Speaker 2: maybe I can.
Speaker 1: Ah, you'll love it, Yeah, you'll love it.
Speaker 2: But you know what, there are companies are going back
Speaker 2: to knobs and dials. I had my car being repaired
Speaker 2: recently because unfortunately, I had an interaction or an altercation
Speaker 2: with a kangaroo. The kangaroo survived, my car didn't. It's
Speaker 2: kind of bumped the side of the car. But I
Speaker 2: was driving a courtesy car for a while and I
Speaker 2: didn't realize how much I like all the features in
Speaker 2: my car. You know, the head's up display, But what
Speaker 2: I love about it is that I can reach down
Speaker 2: and still physically hit a button to turn the temperature
Speaker 2: up or down. There's a screen version, but it also
Speaker 2: has analog versions as well, Knobs to control the volume,
Speaker 2: you know, change the tuning, to move things around. So
Speaker 2: I kind of like that. It's got some tech features,
Speaker 2: but it's also got a lot of analog features as well.
Speaker 1: I had to do a gig in Ballarat yesterday and
Speaker 1: I was.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, he went right past my house. I'm
Speaker 2: just shattered. I'm so shattered.
Speaker 1: I thought about coming to see you, but I had
Speaker 1: to be back in time for a thing. Anyway, For
Speaker 1: I did think of you as I saw the Bland
Speaker 1: and I thought, I thought, no, self, don't tell him
Speaker 1: you went the Ballarat. And then I fucked up, didn't I? Anyway,
Speaker 1: I was leaving the rac V gold Fields gold Mine,
Speaker 1: gold Field's bloody resort in It's actually in Creswick, which
Speaker 1: is right near Ballarat. Anyway, I'm like, Creswickwick, we thank you.
Speaker 1: I was. I was five minutes out of the car
Speaker 1: park and driving back. And if you don't keep your
Speaker 1: eyes in a certain like where the car thinks your
Speaker 1: eyes should be, it tells you to pull over and
Speaker 1: have arrest. It's like, might be time for a coffee
Speaker 1: and a rest. I'm like, how about you shut the
Speaker 1: fuck up like he was telling me at you know,
Speaker 1: five o'clock in the afternoon, pull over, chill out, have arrest,
Speaker 1: have a coffee and then reboot.
Speaker 2: I'm like, no, bro, shush, I thought we're going to
Speaker 2: say that you're It said to you that your left
Speaker 2: eyes so beautiful. You're right. I keeps trying to look
Speaker 2: at it.
Speaker 1: Fucking hell. Patrick, tell people about you where they can
Speaker 1: find you, and.
Speaker 4: Really anybody wants to know anything about way if you
Speaker 4: want to interact on any level, websites noow dot com
Speaker 4: dot Au, websites now dot com dot au, or you
Speaker 4: can go to ty chi at home and do tai
Speaker 4: chie with me, because I feel like I've a split personality.
Speaker 2: There's my tychi me and then there's my tech bor
Speaker 2: not boring. It's kind of fun because we get to
Speaker 2: do lots of fun stuff with clients. But yeah, so
Speaker 2: there's the websites now me and the tai Chi me.
Speaker 1: Tech you and so yeah, prefrontal cortex, all logical thinking,
Speaker 1: and then the the spiritual tie chie. Get out of
Speaker 1: your brain, out of your thoughts, out of your bloody
Speaker 1: cognitive whatever. Yeah, that is quiet, it's pretty We'll say
Speaker 1: goodbye a fair but tif thank you. Thanks.
Speaker 3: Kids.
Speaker 1: Try to get you, try to get your computer work
Speaker 1: the will you.
Speaker 3: I wish Patrick could fix it.
Speaker 2: It's an excuse to come visit. I'll come visit help
Speaker 1: You with your computer okay, all right, see everyone Bye.