Speaker 1: From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.
Speaker 1: Most Australians have been targeted by a scam attempt from
Speaker 1: spamy text messages to intricate love fraud, with billions stolen.
Speaker 1: But behind these attacks is a highly organized and secretive
Speaker 1: industry fueled by human trafficking. It's believed hundreds of thousands
Speaker 1: of people are being held against their will in so
Speaker 1: called scam factories across Southeast Asia, in Nyanmar, Cambodia and
Speaker 1: the Philippines. Many are run by Chinese linked gangs operating
Speaker 1: in border regions where laws are weaker. Ben Yo has
Speaker 1: seen firsthand how these compounds operate. In early twenty twenty four,
Speaker 1: he was kidnapped trapped in a Cambodian based scam factory. Today,
Speaker 1: Ben Yo on how he escaped the scam compounds and
Speaker 1: why so many others struggle to get out. It's Tuesday,
Speaker 1: March eleven. Well, first of all, thank you again for
Speaker 1: coming on the show and for talking to me. I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it.
Speaker 2: You're welcome, we'll welcome. Sorry, I'm a bit nervous this morning.
Speaker 1: No, that's okay, it's very understandable. So to begin with,
Speaker 1: had you ever heard about scam compounds before.
Speaker 2: I have heard of these compounds, but I didn't know
Speaker 2: that it was so widespread. But I didn't know there
Speaker 2: was like few hundred thousand people working in the industry there,
Speaker 2: so not until I actually got into one myself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I suppose you would never have thought something
Speaker 1: like this would happen to you.
Speaker 2: Oh, of course never.
Speaker 1: Ben's ordeal started in early twenty twenty four, shortly after
Speaker 1: he got married. Ben's Malaysian and his new wife is Filipino,
Speaker 1: and they were looking for a change in scenery in
Speaker 1: a third country. Until that point, Ben was a freelance
Speaker 1: business consultant who had worked across Southeast Asia, but after
Speaker 1: that work began to dry up during COVID, he was
Speaker 1: open to something new.
Speaker 2: So what happened was me and my wife we decided to,
Speaker 2: you know, go to Cambodia to start our life over there.
Speaker 2: And so my wife, she was a croupiers, she's a
Speaker 2: casino dealer. She does like black jack and poker, and
Speaker 2: she got a friend who introduced her to this job
Speaker 2: posting on a human resource agency. One of the ads
Speaker 2: was croupier and the other says business development. So we
Speaker 2: responded to the ad. They did a first interview, second interview.
Speaker 2: They were quite convincing. They asked all the right questions
Speaker 2: which a normal hit shiveled us, you know, and they
Speaker 2: talk about our salary and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: Ben also looked into the company who owned the casino
Speaker 1: and saw they had all the right government of provals
Speaker 1: and licenses. There was nothing to suggest the job wasn't real.
Speaker 2: I felt hopeful at that point, you know, I thought
Speaker 2: we were going to a country which I know, I'm
Speaker 2: familiar with, I speak the language, so you know, I
Speaker 2: was kind of confident. Before leaving for Cambodia. We gave
Speaker 2: up the house, you know, I saw my car. We
Speaker 2: thought that we'll be there for a couple of years, you.
Speaker 1: Know, okay, And so then what happened next.
Speaker 2: So we got on a plane, we flew down to Cambodia.
Speaker 2: They told us there would be pick up at the airport.
Speaker 2: And when they picked us up and drove to this
Speaker 2: place called Bavette, which is about three three to four
Speaker 2: hours drive away. It's just right at the Vietnam border.
Speaker 2: So another reason why we felt that the job was
Speaker 2: real was because Bavett is a especial economic zone for casinos.
Speaker 2: But when we got to Bavette, they brought us to
Speaker 2: a compound which is behind the casinos. The archers to
Speaker 2: the compound was about two stories high, barbed wired. It
Speaker 2: was heavily guarded, just like a prison, you know. So
Speaker 2: they told us before going in. They told us it
Speaker 2: was just like the staff quarters, you know, And so
Speaker 2: we believed him and we walked in just like that.
Speaker 2: And when the dog closed on us, it brought us
Speaker 2: to our quarters. And from there they told us that
Speaker 2: the job that you applied for it was just a lie.
Speaker 2: You are now in a scam camp. And if he
Speaker 2: wanted to go home and we want to leave, we
Speaker 2: have to pay them to the tune of ten thousand
Speaker 2: US dollars.
Speaker 1: That must have been a very frightening moment for you
Speaker 1: and for your wife realized that you couldn't leave the compound.
Speaker 2: Yes, it was quite quite shocking, and you know, we
Speaker 2: couldn't sleep for about three days. I think we tried
Speaker 2: to take all of it in. You know, watch how
Speaker 2: other people behave.
Speaker 1: Were other people also tricked like you?
Speaker 2: I think half of them at least were scamming to
Speaker 2: the compound, but most of them was from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal.
Speaker 2: Some of them applied as a nurse, some of them
Speaker 2: are as teachers, I think engineers, it workers. Most of
Speaker 2: them didn't have a choice. Most of them are stuck there.
Speaker 1: You know, they were stuck inside a self contained city.
Speaker 1: It even had its own grocery store. The compound had
Speaker 1: around two hundred bungalows which each housed about fifty people.
Speaker 1: And it's from these compounds that workers are forced to
Speaker 1: run cyber scams on grueling shifts with tough targets. Each
Speaker 1: compound specialized in a different scam. For example, there are
Speaker 1: entire compounds dedicated to scamming Australians using love fraud. But
Speaker 1: Ben says he and his wife found themselves in a
Speaker 1: compound of targeting people in India with a credit card
Speaker 1: scam and that some local police were in on the scam.
Speaker 2: So they were called the Indian people do a spam
Speaker 2: call and informed the victim that he has a outstanding
Speaker 2: balance with his credit card. So from credit card department,
Speaker 2: they were passed to the police and the police were
Speaker 2: frightening them saying that you know their bank account has
Speaker 2: been linked to drugs or murders and things like that,
Speaker 2: and that's how they you know, pray on the week.
Speaker 1: At first, because of his language skills, Ben was asked
Speaker 1: to teach the other workers English, but he says after
Speaker 1: two weeks it was his turn to pick up the
Speaker 1: phone and start scamming. But Ben refused to cooperate, and
Speaker 1: that's when the guards turned violent.
Speaker 2: They isolated us, me and my wife. They finally brought
Speaker 2: me into a room which especially made prison, so they
Speaker 2: cuffed me to the floor. They handcuffed me to the
Speaker 2: floor so I couldn't stand of didn't give me water
Speaker 2: and food. It was really it was really challenging and
Speaker 2: at time, because I'm worried for my wife. You know,
Speaker 2: I was handcuffed, there were so many.
Speaker 1: Guards and what were they saying to you about what
Speaker 1: they wanted you to do to make that end?
Speaker 2: They wanted me to pay twenty thousand US dollars for
Speaker 2: them to release me and my wife. All I could
Speaker 2: do was pray, you know, in the darkest hours. I
Speaker 2: think that's where you know, I found God.
Speaker 1: Coming up after the break, how Ben and his wife escaped.
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Speaker 1: Ben, You were held in isolation for ten days because
Speaker 1: you refused to do any scams. You were essentially held
Speaker 1: to ransom. How did you actually manage to get out?
Speaker 2: We managed to hate a pull so that we would
Speaker 2: be able to give my parents the location of the
Speaker 2: police and you know what to tell the embassy on
Speaker 2: where we are at. So I believe the communication through
Speaker 2: the full between my parents and my wife, and that's
Speaker 2: how he managed to get the police to come.
Speaker 1: But the police coming to the compound was just the beginning.
Speaker 1: The whole ordeal of trying to get home would take
Speaker 1: months before the compound guards released him to the police.
Speaker 1: They forced him to record a video saying he had
Speaker 1: been well treated, that he hadn't been kidnapped. Once he'd
Speaker 1: done that, he was able to go with them, but
Speaker 1: again at the police station. He was made to sign
Speaker 1: a statement again saying he hadn't been trafficked. Ben says
Speaker 1: a representative from the company was there in the room
Speaker 1: as they demanded his sign.
Speaker 2: I was pretty afit on that day itself.
Speaker 1: What did you do?
Speaker 2: Well, we had no choice but to sign it, and
Speaker 2: it was from there. I tried to get some legal support,
Speaker 2: but it was really expensive and we really lost everything
Speaker 2: going there, So it was quite tough. There were so
Speaker 2: many things going through our minds. Are we going to
Speaker 2: be safe even in police custody?
Speaker 1: Ben was right to be afraid. Later that day, a
Speaker 1: car came to pick him and his wife up to
Speaker 1: take them to the bigger provincial police station and hopefully
Speaker 1: one step closer to home. But on their way there,
Speaker 1: the police car broke down, or it seemed to. Ben
Speaker 1: realized something was up and he started recording.
Speaker 2: They faked a car breakdown. They took a car that
Speaker 2: wasn't working and a car broke down halfway. No problem,
Speaker 2: No problem. I found that that police station was already compromised,
Speaker 2: and I was just a few minutes away to being
Speaker 2: so back to the company.
Speaker 3: Now go to police, But what chager?
Speaker 2: Go to police? Okay?
Speaker 1: Ben was able to use his phone to call for
Speaker 1: outside help to intervene and put pressure on the police.
Speaker 1: From there, he and his wife Moira spent nearly three
Speaker 1: months living in housing supported by an ango in Cambodia.
Speaker 1: He was constantly questioned by the government and made, he says,
Speaker 1: to feel like a criminal rather than a victim.
Speaker 2: The line of questioning of the police, you know, wasn't
Speaker 2: who were these people? How do they connect you? They
Speaker 2: were basically asking like, okay, so when you were there,
Speaker 2: did you do any transactions? Do you ask money from anyone?
Speaker 2: There was no mention of the perpetrators and you know
Speaker 2: how they look like and things like that.
Speaker 1: Okay, So no interest in pursuing the people who trafficked
Speaker 1: to you and kidnapped you and kept you in the
Speaker 1: compound against your will.
Speaker 2: Correct.
Speaker 1: Ben and his wife made it out of Cambodia, but
Speaker 1: the experience left him destitute with no home to go
Speaker 1: back to. Ben was it first living in a church,
Speaker 1: and he lived in fear.
Speaker 2: Sometimes I'm worried for my life. You know, we get
Speaker 2: treads sometimes.
Speaker 1: What sort of threats do you get?
Speaker 2: I get very funny calls on my phone. Sometimes I
Speaker 2: have a feeling that someone from the compound is trying
Speaker 2: to reach out to me. Maybe it's just my PTSD,
Speaker 2: you know, Yeah, but but yes, I'm afraid sometimes that
Speaker 2: you know, they will come after me. They have all
Speaker 2: the financial results to do that.
Speaker 1: It's rare to hear from people. You don't often hear
Speaker 1: from people like you who have been in these compounds.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is?
Speaker 2: I think the first problem would be it's really hard
Speaker 2: to stand up for yourself as a victim over here
Speaker 2: because there were so many stigma that goes around, you know, survivors.
Speaker 2: Even my own government and my own police. When I
Speaker 2: got back, you know, they thought that I was a
Speaker 2: scammer and I just needed help to get out. So
Speaker 2: I think there's not many much support. That's why not
Speaker 2: many people would actually be brief enough to come and
Speaker 2: talk about it.
Speaker 1: But it's the testimonies of survivors that have forced governments
Speaker 1: to act. In the last few weeks, seven thousand people
Speaker 1: were rescued from scam factories in Myanmar by Thai authorities.
Speaker 1: A week later, two hundred and fifteen more people were
Speaker 1: freed by Thai and Camodian police from a town along
Speaker 1: their shared border. What would you want the people in
Speaker 1: Australia who are getting these scam calls, what would you
Speaker 1: want them to know and to understand about the reality
Speaker 1: of what's actually going on and the people who are
Speaker 1: placing these calls.
Speaker 2: For the Australian people, scam cams are real. The people
Speaker 2: who are calling most likely they are victims as well,
Speaker 2: and they were forced to do their jobs right. But
Speaker 2: for the average Australian citizen, I would suggest to you,
Speaker 2: if there was any call pretending to be a bank
Speaker 2: or a post office, you know, basically anything that requires registration,
Speaker 2: please go to the branch itself and chat before committing
Speaker 2: financially to any of these scams, and don't fall for
Speaker 2: anyone online unless you know them for years.
Speaker 1: Thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad that
Speaker 1: you managed to escape at good luck with everything.
Speaker 2: Thank you. Thank you so very.
Speaker 1: Much for more of Ben's story plus others have a
Speaker 1: Listen to Scam Factories, a three part investigation from The
Speaker 1: Conversation Weekly. Search for The Conversation Weekly wherever you get
Speaker 1: your podcasts. Also in the news today, people who have
Speaker 1: lost income as a direct result of x Tropical Cyclone
Speaker 1: Alfred may be eligible for up to thirteen weeks of
Speaker 1: income support. The Prime Minister has announced starting today at
Speaker 1: two pm, workers and sole traders in thirty one local
Speaker 1: government areas impacted across Queensland and New South Wales will
Speaker 1: be able to apply using MyGov or the Services Australia websites.
Speaker 1: Income support will be available at the job seeker level.
Speaker 1: Former Central banker Mark Carney will be sworn in as
Speaker 1: Prime Minister of Canada within days after winning a party
Speaker 1: contest to succeed Justin Trudeau. Trudeau announced in January that
Speaker 1: he would be stepping down after his approval rating plummeted.
Speaker 1: He's been Prime minister for more than nine years. Fifty
Speaker 1: nine year old Carney has never held political office, but
Speaker 1: argues his banking background makes him well placed to lead
Speaker 1: Canada through its current trade war with the US. I'm
Speaker 1: Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.