WEBVTT - Trapped in a Cambodian scam factory

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<v Speaker 1>From Schwartz Media. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am.

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<v Speaker 1>Most Australians have been targeted by a scam attempt from

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<v Speaker 1>spamy text messages to intricate love fraud, with billions stolen.

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<v Speaker 1>But behind these attacks is a highly organized and secretive

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<v Speaker 1>industry fueled by human trafficking. It's believed hundreds of thousands

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<v Speaker 1>of people are being held against their will in so

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<v Speaker 1>called scam factories across Southeast Asia, in Nyanmar, Cambodia and

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<v Speaker 1>the Philippines. Many are run by Chinese linked gangs operating

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<v Speaker 1>in border regions where laws are weaker. Ben Yo has

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<v Speaker 1>seen firsthand how these compounds operate. In early twenty twenty four,

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<v Speaker 1>he was kidnapped trapped in a Cambodian based scam factory. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>Ben Yo on how he escaped the scam compounds and

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<v Speaker 1>why so many others struggle to get out. It's Tuesday,

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<v Speaker 1>March eleven. Well, first of all, thank you again for

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<v Speaker 1>coming on the show and for talking to me. I

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<v Speaker 1>really appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>You're welcome, we'll welcome. Sorry, I'm a bit nervous this morning.

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<v Speaker 1>No, that's okay, it's very understandable. So to begin with,

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<v Speaker 1>had you ever heard about scam compounds before.

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<v Speaker 2>I have heard of these compounds, but I didn't know

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<v Speaker 2>that it was so widespread. But I didn't know there

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<v Speaker 2>was like few hundred thousand people working in the industry there,

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<v Speaker 2>so not until I actually got into one myself.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and I suppose you would never have thought something

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<v Speaker 1>like this would happen to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, of course never.

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<v Speaker 1>Ben's ordeal started in early twenty twenty four, shortly after

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<v Speaker 1>he got married. Ben's Malaysian and his new wife is Filipino,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were looking for a change in scenery in

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<v Speaker 1>a third country. Until that point, Ben was a freelance

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<v Speaker 1>business consultant who had worked across Southeast Asia, but after

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<v Speaker 1>that work began to dry up during COVID, he was

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<v Speaker 1>open to something new.

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<v Speaker 2>So what happened was me and my wife we decided to,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, go to Cambodia to start our life over there.

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<v Speaker 2>And so my wife, she was a croupiers, she's a

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<v Speaker 2>casino dealer. She does like black jack and poker, and

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<v Speaker 2>she got a friend who introduced her to this job

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<v Speaker 2>posting on a human resource agency. One of the ads

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<v Speaker 2>was croupier and the other says business development. So we

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<v Speaker 2>responded to the ad. They did a first interview, second interview.

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<v Speaker 2>They were quite convincing. They asked all the right questions

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<v Speaker 2>which a normal hit shiveled us, you know, and they

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<v Speaker 2>talk about our salary and stuff like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Ben also looked into the company who owned the casino

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<v Speaker 1>and saw they had all the right government of provals

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<v Speaker 1>and licenses. There was nothing to suggest the job wasn't real.

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<v Speaker 2>I felt hopeful at that point, you know, I thought

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<v Speaker 2>we were going to a country which I know, I'm

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<v Speaker 2>familiar with, I speak the language, so you know, I

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<v Speaker 2>was kind of confident. Before leaving for Cambodia. We gave

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<v Speaker 2>up the house, you know, I saw my car. We

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<v Speaker 2>thought that we'll be there for a couple of years, you.

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<v Speaker 1>Know, okay, And so then what happened next.

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<v Speaker 2>So we got on a plane, we flew down to Cambodia.

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<v Speaker 2>They told us there would be pick up at the airport.

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<v Speaker 2>And when they picked us up and drove to this

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<v Speaker 2>place called Bavette, which is about three three to four

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<v Speaker 2>hours drive away. It's just right at the Vietnam border.

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<v Speaker 2>So another reason why we felt that the job was

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<v Speaker 2>real was because Bavett is a especial economic zone for casinos.

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<v Speaker 2>But when we got to Bavette, they brought us to

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<v Speaker 2>a compound which is behind the casinos. The archers to

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<v Speaker 2>the compound was about two stories high, barbed wired. It

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<v Speaker 2>was heavily guarded, just like a prison, you know. So

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<v Speaker 2>they told us before going in. They told us it

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<v Speaker 2>was just like the staff quarters, you know, And so

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<v Speaker 2>we believed him and we walked in just like that.

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<v Speaker 2>And when the dog closed on us, it brought us

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<v Speaker 2>to our quarters. And from there they told us that

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<v Speaker 2>the job that you applied for it was just a lie.

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<v Speaker 2>You are now in a scam camp. And if he

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to go home and we want to leave, we

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<v Speaker 2>have to pay them to the tune of ten thousand

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<v Speaker 2>US dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>That must have been a very frightening moment for you

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<v Speaker 1>and for your wife realized that you couldn't leave the compound.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was quite quite shocking, and you know, we

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't sleep for about three days. I think we tried

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<v Speaker 2>to take all of it in. You know, watch how

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<v Speaker 2>other people behave.

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<v Speaker 1>Were other people also tricked like you?

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<v Speaker 2>I think half of them at least were scamming to

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<v Speaker 2>the compound, but most of them was from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Nepal.

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<v Speaker 2>Some of them applied as a nurse, some of them

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<v Speaker 2>are as teachers, I think engineers, it workers. Most of

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<v Speaker 2>them didn't have a choice. Most of them are stuck there.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, they were stuck inside a self contained city.

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<v Speaker 1>It even had its own grocery store. The compound had

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<v Speaker 1>around two hundred bungalows which each housed about fifty people.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's from these compounds that workers are forced to

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<v Speaker 1>run cyber scams on grueling shifts with tough targets. Each

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<v Speaker 1>compound specialized in a different scam. For example, there are

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<v Speaker 1>entire compounds dedicated to scamming Australians using love fraud. But

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<v Speaker 1>Ben says he and his wife found themselves in a

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<v Speaker 1>compound of targeting people in India with a credit card

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<v Speaker 1>scam and that some local police were in on the scam.

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<v Speaker 2>So they were called the Indian people do a spam

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<v Speaker 2>call and informed the victim that he has a outstanding

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<v Speaker 2>balance with his credit card. So from credit card department,

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<v Speaker 2>they were passed to the police and the police were

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<v Speaker 2>frightening them saying that you know their bank account has

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<v Speaker 2>been linked to drugs or murders and things like that,

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<v Speaker 2>and that's how they you know, pray on the week.

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<v Speaker 1>At first, because of his language skills, Ben was asked

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<v Speaker 1>to teach the other workers English, but he says after

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<v Speaker 1>two weeks it was his turn to pick up the

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<v Speaker 1>phone and start scamming. But Ben refused to cooperate, and

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<v Speaker 1>that's when the guards turned violent.

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<v Speaker 2>They isolated us, me and my wife. They finally brought

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<v Speaker 2>me into a room which especially made prison, so they

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<v Speaker 2>cuffed me to the floor. They handcuffed me to the

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<v Speaker 2>floor so I couldn't stand of didn't give me water

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<v Speaker 2>and food. It was really it was really challenging and

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<v Speaker 2>at time, because I'm worried for my wife. You know,

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<v Speaker 2>I was handcuffed, there were so many.

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<v Speaker 1>Guards and what were they saying to you about what

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<v Speaker 1>they wanted you to do to make that end?

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<v Speaker 2>They wanted me to pay twenty thousand US dollars for

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<v Speaker 2>them to release me and my wife. All I could

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<v Speaker 2>do was pray, you know, in the darkest hours. I

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<v Speaker 2>think that's where you know, I found God.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up after the break, how Ben and his wife escaped.

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<v Speaker 3>Hi, I'm Daniel James seven Am tell stories that need

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<v Speaker 1>Ben, You were held in isolation for ten days because

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<v Speaker 1>you refused to do any scams. You were essentially held

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<v Speaker 1>to ransom. How did you actually manage to get out?

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<v Speaker 2>We managed to hate a pull so that we would

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<v Speaker 2>be able to give my parents the location of the

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<v Speaker 2>police and you know what to tell the embassy on

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<v Speaker 2>where we are at. So I believe the communication through

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<v Speaker 2>the full between my parents and my wife, and that's

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<v Speaker 2>how he managed to get the police to come.

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<v Speaker 1>But the police coming to the compound was just the beginning.

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<v Speaker 1>The whole ordeal of trying to get home would take

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<v Speaker 1>months before the compound guards released him to the police.

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<v Speaker 1>They forced him to record a video saying he had

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<v Speaker 1>been well treated, that he hadn't been kidnapped. Once he'd

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<v Speaker 1>done that, he was able to go with them, but

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<v Speaker 1>again at the police station. He was made to sign

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<v Speaker 1>a statement again saying he hadn't been trafficked. Ben says

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<v Speaker 1>a representative from the company was there in the room

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<v Speaker 1>as they demanded his sign.

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<v Speaker 2>I was pretty afit on that day itself.

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<v Speaker 1>What did you do?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, we had no choice but to sign it, and

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<v Speaker 2>it was from there. I tried to get some legal support,

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<v Speaker 2>but it was really expensive and we really lost everything

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<v Speaker 2>going there, So it was quite tough. There were so

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<v Speaker 2>many things going through our minds. Are we going to

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<v Speaker 2>be safe even in police custody?

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<v Speaker 1>Ben was right to be afraid. Later that day, a

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<v Speaker 1>car came to pick him and his wife up to

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<v Speaker 1>take them to the bigger provincial police station and hopefully

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<v Speaker 1>one step closer to home. But on their way there,

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<v Speaker 1>the police car broke down, or it seemed to. Ben

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<v Speaker 1>realized something was up and he started recording.

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<v Speaker 2>They faked a car breakdown. They took a car that

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't working and a car broke down halfway. No problem,

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<v Speaker 2>No problem. I found that that police station was already compromised,

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<v Speaker 2>and I was just a few minutes away to being

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<v Speaker 2>so back to the company.

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<v Speaker 3>Now go to police, But what chager?

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<v Speaker 2>Go to police? Okay?

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<v Speaker 1>Ben was able to use his phone to call for

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<v Speaker 1>outside help to intervene and put pressure on the police.

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<v Speaker 1>From there, he and his wife Moira spent nearly three

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<v Speaker 1>months living in housing supported by an ango in Cambodia.

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<v Speaker 1>He was constantly questioned by the government and made, he says,

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<v Speaker 1>to feel like a criminal rather than a victim.

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<v Speaker 2>The line of questioning of the police, you know, wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>who were these people? How do they connect you? They

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<v Speaker 2>were basically asking like, okay, so when you were there,

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<v Speaker 2>did you do any transactions? Do you ask money from anyone?

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<v Speaker 2>There was no mention of the perpetrators and you know

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<v Speaker 2>how they look like and things like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, So no interest in pursuing the people who trafficked

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<v Speaker 1>to you and kidnapped you and kept you in the

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<v Speaker 1>compound against your will.

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<v Speaker 2>Correct.

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<v Speaker 1>Ben and his wife made it out of Cambodia, but

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<v Speaker 1>the experience left him destitute with no home to go

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<v Speaker 1>back to. Ben was it first living in a church,

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<v Speaker 1>and he lived in fear.

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<v Speaker 2>Sometimes I'm worried for my life. You know, we get

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<v Speaker 2>treads sometimes.

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<v Speaker 1>What sort of threats do you get?

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<v Speaker 2>I get very funny calls on my phone. Sometimes I

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<v Speaker 2>have a feeling that someone from the compound is trying

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<v Speaker 2>to reach out to me. Maybe it's just my PTSD,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Yeah, but but yes, I'm afraid sometimes that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, they will come after me. They have all

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<v Speaker 2>the financial results to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>It's rare to hear from people. You don't often hear

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<v Speaker 1>from people like you who have been in these compounds.

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<v Speaker 1>Why do you think that is?

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<v Speaker 2>I think the first problem would be it's really hard

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<v Speaker 2>to stand up for yourself as a victim over here

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<v Speaker 2>because there were so many stigma that goes around, you know, survivors.

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<v Speaker 2>Even my own government and my own police. When I

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<v Speaker 2>got back, you know, they thought that I was a

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<v Speaker 2>scammer and I just needed help to get out. So

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's not many much support. That's why not

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<v Speaker 2>many people would actually be brief enough to come and

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<v Speaker 2>talk about it.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's the testimonies of survivors that have forced governments

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<v Speaker 1>to act. In the last few weeks, seven thousand people

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<v Speaker 1>were rescued from scam factories in Myanmar by Thai authorities.

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<v Speaker 1>A week later, two hundred and fifteen more people were

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<v Speaker 1>freed by Thai and Camodian police from a town along

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<v Speaker 1>their shared border. What would you want the people in

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<v Speaker 1>Australia who are getting these scam calls, what would you

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<v Speaker 1>want them to know and to understand about the reality

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<v Speaker 1>of what's actually going on and the people who are

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<v Speaker 1>placing these calls.

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<v Speaker 2>For the Australian people, scam cams are real. The people

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<v Speaker 2>who are calling most likely they are victims as well,

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<v Speaker 2>and they were forced to do their jobs right. But

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<v Speaker 2>for the average Australian citizen, I would suggest to you,

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<v Speaker 2>if there was any call pretending to be a bank

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<v Speaker 2>or a post office, you know, basically anything that requires registration,

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<v Speaker 2>please go to the branch itself and chat before committing

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<v Speaker 2>financially to any of these scams, and don't fall for

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<v Speaker 2>anyone online unless you know them for years.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for sharing your story and I'm glad that

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<v Speaker 1>you managed to escape at good luck with everything.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you. Thank you so very.

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<v Speaker 1>Much for more of Ben's story plus others have a

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<v Speaker 1>Listen to Scam Factories, a three part investigation from The

0:14:14.520 --> 0:14:18.600
<v Speaker 1>Conversation Weekly. Search for The Conversation Weekly wherever you get

0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 1>your podcasts. Also in the news today, people who have

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<v Speaker 1>lost income as a direct result of x Tropical Cyclone

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<v Speaker 1>Alfred may be eligible for up to thirteen weeks of

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<v Speaker 1>income support. The Prime Minister has announced starting today at

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<v Speaker 1>two pm, workers and sole traders in thirty one local

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<v Speaker 1>government areas impacted across Queensland and New South Wales will

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<v Speaker 1>be able to apply using MyGov or the Services Australia websites.

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<v Speaker 1>Income support will be available at the job seeker level.

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<v Speaker 1>Former Central banker Mark Carney will be sworn in as

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<v Speaker 1>Prime Minister of Canada within days after winning a party

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<v Speaker 1>contest to succeed Justin Trudeau. Trudeau announced in January that

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<v Speaker 1>he would be stepping down after his approval rating plummeted.

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<v Speaker 1>He's been Prime minister for more than nine years. Fifty

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<v Speaker 1>nine year old Carney has never held political office, but

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<v Speaker 1>argues his banking background makes him well placed to lead

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<v Speaker 1>Canada through its current trade war with the US. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks for listening.