Speaker 1: I get everyone. It's the Youth Project. Roberts Capuccio is back,
Speaker 1: Tiffany and cook us back, and I'm back, which is
Speaker 1: I don't know good? I guess Hi, TIV, what a delight? Hi? Yeah,
Speaker 1: well you were just marveling at my hair. I'm wearing
Speaker 1: it up today.
Speaker 2: Maybe she's born with it malone that's not here though,
Speaker 2: that's makeup.
Speaker 1: Something Bobby and I do not have to worry about
Speaker 1: is investing any time or energy or attention into what
Speaker 1: we're going to do with our hair on a given day.
Speaker 2: I envy that.
Speaker 1: I envy how much time does it take, because you
Speaker 1: do have a fair shock of hair. How much time
Speaker 1: would you spend per day just organizing your hair? Like
Speaker 1: five minutes twenty minutes.
Speaker 2: Most days, five if I wash it and try and
Speaker 2: get those girls to be somewhat respectable.
Speaker 1: It's just it's the fuck.
Speaker 2: It's annoying.
Speaker 1: It's so annoying.
Speaker 2: I'm not into it. So that's why it's always scooped
Speaker 2: back into a ponytail.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I definitely think next to no hair for me anyway,
Speaker 1: not that I have the option. Well I do have
Speaker 1: the option because my hair grows like a fucking weed,
Speaker 1: but it just grows in seventy nine directions, and I
Speaker 1: look like essentially a head the T shirt.
Speaker 2: When you look like Einstein, I do look like.
Speaker 1: I look like Einstein if only I had Einstein's brain.
Speaker 1: Although there's some conjecture that he was the brains of
Speaker 1: the family or was not. Apparently missus Einstein was pretty smart.
Speaker 1: I might have done, might have been much more than
Speaker 1: just a moral or emotional support system. They think that
Speaker 1: she said that often the case. Well, they think that
Speaker 1: she was a genius and may have done. I mean,
Speaker 1: they think, listen to me, I just read some stuff
Speaker 1: about that. So do your own research, make your own decision.
Speaker 1: Speaking of Genie, I Hi, Robert.
Speaker 3: So what I'm getting out this whole converss it really
Speaker 3: doesn't matter how smart you are, you just got to
Speaker 3: have the right hair for it.
Speaker 1: I don't know that that is the takeaway. I don't
Speaker 1: know that that's where I was going, But sure, sure, hey,
Speaker 1: you're going to like today. I think now, listeners, we
Speaker 1: don't plan well. We never get together and plan about
Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about, or rarely do, and
Speaker 1: even when we do, we tend not to do what
Speaker 1: we said we would do Today is no different. Well
Speaker 1: today is a little different in that I've planned and
Speaker 1: those two don't know what we're going to talk about.
Speaker 1: So this was written these ideas I want to run
Speaker 1: by you. I did with you in mind, Bobby, but
Speaker 1: also tif you're a coach too, so feel free to contribute.
Speaker 1: So I want to talk to you today about coaching
Speaker 1: specifically and do an entire episode on that and around that.
Speaker 1: But I've got a lot of questions, so I need
Speaker 1: succeed ish now. I know this is going to be
Speaker 1: hard for you. I need pretty succinct one to three
Speaker 1: minute answers because I want to get to at least
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen questions because one of the when I
Speaker 1: was way, I was talking to someone in Queensland and
Speaker 1: they said to me, I don't actually understand coaching, Like
Speaker 1: what does a coach do? How do you get qualified?
Speaker 1: Who do? I like, they wanted a coach and they're like,
Speaker 1: everyone's a coach. It seems like you can become a
Speaker 1: coach in eight minutes. And there are people that are
Speaker 1: coaches that have got degrees and master's degrees and people
Speaker 1: that are coaches that have got no degrees and they
Speaker 1: don't there doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason
Speaker 1: or logic or governance around coaching. And it's it's my understanding.
Speaker 1: In Australia anyway, TIF you might know, it's pretty much
Speaker 1: an unregulated industry. Am I rights in that like there's
Speaker 1: no like there's no government kind of recognition.
Speaker 2: No, they've got some bodies that you can you can
Speaker 2: get registration with.
Speaker 1: But you know, Bobby, what about in the States is
Speaker 1: it similar?
Speaker 3: The problem with coaching is everything that this person said
Speaker 3: is correct. You can go through the ICF, the International
Speaker 3: Coaching Federation, which is kind of like the facto governing body,
Speaker 3: and it takes an enormous amount of study, rigorous testing
Speaker 3: and hands on application. I mean, even to become like
Speaker 3: a professional coach, you have to submit five hundred hours
Speaker 3: of actual coaching sessions in extraordinary detail. And you can
Speaker 3: elevate the criteria much higher than that when you're applying
Speaker 3: to sit for your masters for the Mastery of Coaching
Speaker 3: Exam the MCC. And then you can go away for
Speaker 3: a weekend and you could get certified in something that
Speaker 3: sounds like coaching, but it might not actually apply any
Speaker 3: empirical based coaching models. Or tools or skills, so it's
Speaker 3: kind of all over the shop. I think the ICF
Speaker 3: does a really phenomenal job at trying to create as
Speaker 3: much standards and guidelines as possible. But then you have
Speaker 3: people that are just like, oh, yeah, I'm just going
Speaker 3: to launch a coaching sirt or I'm gonna call myself
Speaker 3: a coach, but what I do has nothing to do
Speaker 3: with coaching. It's like going to see a physio and
Speaker 3: you turn out like whoa, oh, actually, what you're practicing
Speaker 3: is proctology. Wasn't expecting that.
Speaker 1: Mm yeah, but my sphincter feels much better, even though
Speaker 1: it was my ankle that was the problem. Thanks for
Speaker 1: the uh, thanks for the chop app.
Speaker 3: But that's that's But even with your ankle, you got
Speaker 3: to facilitate the pelvic floor right otherwise you don't have
Speaker 3: like proper spinal mechanics and inhibits the glute that can
Speaker 3: cause excessive adduction to the knee and then you know
Speaker 3: you're not going to be able to control pernation distortion.
Speaker 1: So also while you're doing that, you can check my state.
Speaker 1: Thanks for coming, no extra cost.
Speaker 3: It's still no excuse for sexual assault at the physio office.
Speaker 3: So it just won't be very clear. I don't condone that.
Speaker 1: I really wish you didn't open that door, Bobby Capucco,
Speaker 1: but maybe he didn't open it.
Speaker 3: Was it me that opened that well.
Speaker 1: But it's kind of the same as personal training, Like
Speaker 1: in Australia, it's it's I don't know about the state
Speaker 1: and I know, but like when you go ICF right
Speaker 1: like they are a credible I'm not saying they're not.
Speaker 1: There a credible organization and you've got to meet all
Speaker 1: these criteria and it seems to be, you know, well structured,
Speaker 1: the contents, the coaching is good, the requirements of high
Speaker 1: bah bah I've never heard of them. That doesn't mean
Speaker 1: they're not amazing TIF. If you heard of ICF, yeah
Speaker 1: yeah I have. Yeah, Okay, So and I would say
Speaker 1: maybe maybe not. I would say the majority of our
Speaker 1: listeners haven't heard of that. Maybe they have my beyond
Speaker 1: on the dumb one but or the one in the dark.
Speaker 1: But I think that's the thing is like even in Australia,
Speaker 1: personal training is an unregulated industry in that there's no
Speaker 1: government mandates or rules or criteria that need.
Speaker 3: To be met.
Speaker 1: In order to get insurance, which is an issue, then
Speaker 1: you need a certificate three or four with an RTO
Speaker 1: registered training organization. But in terms of you to call
Speaker 1: yourself a personal trainer and to go out and train people,
Speaker 1: I don't think there's any legal requirements around that. But anyway,
Speaker 1: so let's jump back into coaching. So I want to
Speaker 1: ask you, So let's start with that. What is the
Speaker 1: biggest misconception that people know? Let's do that too. What
Speaker 1: is the role of a coach in the context of
Speaker 1: high performance coaching or business coaching? The stuff that you do?
Speaker 1: What is the role like what are you meant to
Speaker 1: be doing or what's the job description?
Speaker 3: Well, a coach should use empirical based behavioral science tools
Speaker 3: to help people to extract what it is their motivations
Speaker 3: are and resolve levels of ambivalence. In other words, what
Speaker 3: are the conflicts that are blocking you from doing what
Speaker 3: you want to do or being who you most want
Speaker 3: to be. A coach is not there to It's easier
Speaker 3: to talk about what a coach doesn't do. A coach
Speaker 3: is not there to motivate you. Coach is not there
Speaker 3: to inspire you. Although when you're talking about things that
Speaker 3: are aligned with your values and your ambitions and why.
Speaker 3: Those conversations can be highly motivating, but it's a matter
Speaker 3: of what you're discovering, not what the coach is illuminating.
Speaker 1: So to speak.
Speaker 3: Coaches are not mentors, they're not consultants, they're not advisors.
Speaker 3: They're not there to tell you what to do. So
Speaker 3: if it's like, Okay, well the advice I got from
Speaker 3: my coach was you weren't talking to a coach. Now
Speaker 3: that doesn't say that's not to say that a coach
Speaker 3: can never insert advice, but you have to be very clear, like, Okay,
Speaker 3: if we're in a coaching session, Craig, here's what I'm observing.
Speaker 3: Do I have your permission to pause the coaching session?
Speaker 3: And you got to be really clear that at this
Speaker 3: point we're not coaching. So what coaches do is they
Speaker 3: draw out of you insights, They draw out of you
Speaker 3: tools and resources that you already possess. With the presupposition
Speaker 3: that you are the greatest expert on yourself. Nobody knows
Speaker 3: you or anything related to your life, your wants, your needs,
Speaker 3: your abilities better than you do. And it's just holding
Speaker 3: up a mirror and allowing you to explore and examine
Speaker 3: the intrinsic resources that you possess, so you can be
Speaker 3: more resourceful in bridging gaps between where you are, where
Speaker 3: you want to be, who you are, and who what
Speaker 3: you ultimately want to become. That's kind of like the
Speaker 3: scope of practice of They create that environment where you
Speaker 3: can really immersively explore yourself, your motivations, your behaviors, and
Speaker 3: ways that you normally wouldn't. I mean, we spend so
Speaker 3: much time looking at the world through our filter. What
Speaker 3: a coach does is help you step back and look
Speaker 3: at your filter for a change, and that can be
Speaker 3: extremely productive.
Speaker 1: That's a fucking great answer. Thank you. That actually enlightens me.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 3: So who.
Speaker 1: Let's not go with everyone, but who should and maybe
Speaker 1: who should not think about using a coach? Like what
Speaker 1: needs to be going on and what might be going
Speaker 1: on for me where I would start to think about,
Speaker 1: let's say we can afford it. Let's put aside the
Speaker 1: money issue, but just in general terms, who might think
Speaker 1: about using a coach?
Speaker 3: So again, let's start with who shouldn't. If you're having
Speaker 3: trouble with emotional or behavioral regulation, or let's say you've
Speaker 3: had an experience or a series of experiences like in
Speaker 3: complex PTSD, and it's causing you to struggle in day
Speaker 3: to day functioning. You don't want to seek out a coach.
Speaker 3: You want to seek out a therapist. You want to
Speaker 3: seek out someone who is medically trained to deal with
Speaker 3: mental health. So let's just start there. Who should seek
Speaker 3: out a coach Anyone who has either been trying to
Speaker 3: move towards something but is frustrated with continual stumbling blocks,
Speaker 3: or you're always getting ready to get ready you move forward,
Speaker 3: take two steps back. Or someone who's just looking to
Speaker 3: improve their level of insight and performance around an area
Speaker 3: of life or work that's important to you, then you
Speaker 3: would seek out a coach.
Speaker 1: One of the questions that I've been asked, literally I
Speaker 1: was going to say thousands, I would say probably a
Speaker 1: thousand times over the years, maybe more by people who
Speaker 1: don't live near me, but people who want a trainer,
Speaker 1: because you know, like, how do I find a good trainer?
Speaker 1: And it's like, how do I find somebody that's going
Speaker 1: to be good for me, somebody that's got skills, knowledge,
Speaker 1: you know, empathy, awareness, you know, and actually gives a
Speaker 1: fuck about me. So my answer is, especially when it's
Speaker 1: like in I think, like many industries, there are good
Speaker 1: personal trainers. Remember a personal trainer as a kind of
Speaker 1: coach anyway, But like there are really great trainers, there
Speaker 1: are ten out of ten trainers, there are one out
Speaker 1: of ten trainers, just like there are ten out of ten,
Speaker 1: you know, bricklayers and one out of ten bricklayers. So
Speaker 1: it's we're not throwing trainers or coaches under the bus.
Speaker 1: But for me, my advice is generally either by recommendation.
Speaker 1: So if there's a trainer that's three or four people,
Speaker 1: tell you she or he is fucking amazing, and it's
Speaker 1: probably worth at least rolling the dice making a phone
Speaker 1: call or trying to get a booking or secondly, you know,
Speaker 1: just just go to a GM or a PT center
Speaker 1: and book one session and just say I want to
Speaker 1: do a trial session. And I think the average person
Speaker 1: will know, even if you're not, you know, super knowledgeable
Speaker 1: in terms of exercise programming and all the other stuff,
Speaker 1: I think you will know within an hour whether or
Speaker 1: not that person and you might be a good fit.
Speaker 1: So my question is the same for this kind of coaching, Bobby,
Speaker 1: how do we find a person that might be good
Speaker 1: with US and for us, well.
Speaker 3: I agree. If you hear multiple recommendations that working with
Speaker 3: someone has been extremely productive and it's been a good
Speaker 3: interpersonal and dynamic, you don't want to ignore that. You
Speaker 3: can also, I mean, there's the Institute of Coaching, right
Speaker 3: the IOC. There is the ICF website. There's also the
Speaker 3: National Board Certified Health and Wellness Coaches, so they have
Speaker 3: a directory on their site. And at least you know
Speaker 3: that people have gone through a level of rigorous testing
Speaker 3: to make sure that they can demonstrate the ability to
Speaker 3: not only understand the empirical models and theory, but actually
Speaker 3: apply those models. And I am very distracted and very
Speaker 3: jealous by whatever's going on with Tiffany's camera. That's like amazing.
Speaker 3: It's just like moving in and zooming around you. It's
Speaker 3: like perfect. It's like it's a special effects.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the idea, we done. Idea. I'd stay boy to
Speaker 1: be distracted by your zooming in and out camera.
Speaker 3: I love it. It's like it's like Sesame Street. It's
Speaker 3: like there's Tiffany near and Tiffany far in Near Far.
Speaker 3: It's amazing. I'm like, how can I even focus on
Speaker 3: this podcast when there's all this like cool special effects
Speaker 3: going on?
Speaker 1: What is that about?
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's a new setting.
Speaker 1: Let me find out how to turn it off. It
Speaker 1: is kind of distracting because one minute your head's all
Speaker 1: over my screen and then you're far away in the background.
Speaker 2: Auto framing you. I've switched it off.
Speaker 3: Just see Tiffany's eyeball in the screen. Hey, Bobby, all right,
Speaker 3: So somebody says they feel stuck.
Speaker 1: What might be going on? Somebody feels like they're in
Speaker 1: a holding pattern that they can't get out of. It's
Speaker 1: kind of a behavior or emotional or productive groundhole day
Speaker 1: they're not producing. What are some of the things that
Speaker 1: are often happening when someone is in that state of stuckness?
Speaker 3: Okay, And because there's so many possibilities of what it
Speaker 3: could be, and there's just so many variables, I'm going
Speaker 3: to go with my personal perspective on this and what
Speaker 3: I've seen so many times working with clients at all levels.
Speaker 3: A lot of times in my experience, it can come
Speaker 3: down to ambivalence. And what I mean by that is
Speaker 3: you genuinely truly want two things that are either in
Speaker 3: conflict with one another or they're not aligned with one another.
Speaker 3: So like when my wife moved to Brooklyn, she took
Speaker 3: the cat with her, and you know, she was thinking, Okay,
Speaker 3: we got this cat, like should we get another cat
Speaker 3: to keep them company? Or should we get a canary?
Speaker 3: And the answer is another cat because the cat and
Speaker 3: the canary are in conflict. Those two things don't necessarily
Speaker 3: go well together. And that's kind of the same thing
Speaker 3: with certain goals and ambitions. You know, I want to
Speaker 3: have a lot of freedom because I value freedom, but
Speaker 3: I'm also looking to start my own business. Well, good
Speaker 3: luck with any level of personal freedom and personal time.
Speaker 3: So those two things are kind of in conflict with
Speaker 3: each other, and at which will do is help you
Speaker 3: examine that more in depth?
Speaker 1: Sorry about that. Also, I feel like the idea of
Speaker 1: transformation and growth and development and success is not always
Speaker 1: you know, consistent with what's actually practically required. Like people
Speaker 1: love the theory of success, but not the journey of
Speaker 1: success because one's easy and one's hard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know, we so is raising kids. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, having a kid and raising a kid I've
Speaker 3: heard is brutally difficult. And what I hear from you know,
Speaker 3: like we're not parents, so we're not experts with this,
Speaker 3: but I always hear, Oh my goodness, I did not
Speaker 3: know how hard it was going to be. I love
Speaker 3: my kids more than I ever thought I could love anyone,
Speaker 3: but I grossly underestimated the difficulty. So people do pursue
Speaker 3: things that are really hard. The question is what is
Speaker 3: it that you think success will give you? Like, what
Speaker 3: are you really going after? Some times, you know, when
Speaker 3: people really examine that, what success in this particular path
Speaker 3: that I think I'm choosing for the right reasons is
Speaker 3: an I don't even want that. It's another path, maybe
Speaker 3: not owning my own business, maybe not having that certain
Speaker 3: income goal and living within my means, earning much less money,
Speaker 3: you know, a year as long as I can, you know,
Speaker 3: take care of all my basic needs, take care of
Speaker 3: the needs of my family. That'll allow me to have
Speaker 3: more time with the people I love. So I think
Speaker 3: in some form, yeah, it's really hard. Do you really
Speaker 3: want what you want? And that's not an accusation, it's
Speaker 3: a curious inquiry, like do you really want what you
Speaker 3: think you want?
Speaker 1: Let's talk about that, right. We know that people are emotional.
Speaker 1: We know that when it comes to creating our best
Speaker 1: life for health, or business or career or financial site
Speaker 1: and making decisions and taking action. We know that a
Speaker 1: lot of us may include it are inconsistent for a
Speaker 1: range of reasons. How do we move from being the
Speaker 1: person who's stopping and starting to be being the person
Speaker 1: who's at least more consistent, more reliable, and more proactive
Speaker 1: in the absence of inspiration.
Speaker 3: Well, I think the first question becomes consistent at what
Speaker 3: do you clearly know what you want and what consistent
Speaker 3: behaviors are going to bridge the gap? And if you
Speaker 3: don't know, maybe consistency isn't your first stap, you know,
Speaker 3: because there's research coming out now. I was having this
Speaker 3: conversation yesterday with and ICF Master coach where being really
Speaker 3: super clear around goal setting and smart goals sometimes is
Speaker 3: not very effective for a lot of people, especially when
Speaker 3: creativity is involved. And what might be a better strateg
Speaker 3: for certain individuals is prototyping. Just go out there and
Speaker 3: test a bunch of stuff. Like you were saying, you know,
Speaker 3: you might need to go down to the gym and
Speaker 3: actually make an appointment and experience a personal training session
Speaker 3: before you get clear about what your next course of
Speaker 3: action is because you don't even know if it's going
Speaker 3: to resonate with you. So if you're interested in stuff,
Speaker 3: maybe launching a bunch of experiments and seeing, Okay, is
Speaker 3: this really what I thought it was going to be?
Speaker 3: Is does this resonate with my values? Do this resonate
Speaker 3: with the experiences I want to have? Once you get
Speaker 3: clear or know on certain terms exactly what it is
Speaker 3: that you're looking for, when a goal is far out
Speaker 3: in the future, you know, don't focus on consistent behaviors,
Speaker 3: focus on the why, Like what is it about that
Speaker 3: that excites you?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Who do you want to become at the end of
Speaker 3: this journey?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 3: What do you value most that you're going to get
Speaker 3: to have more of as that goal starts to become
Speaker 3: more proximal in terms of time, So it's not a
Speaker 3: year out, maybe it's like like six months out at
Speaker 3: that point, what are the very specific behaviors Forget the why,
Speaker 3: forget the ambition, forget the inspiration. What are the consistent
Speaker 3: behaviors every single day that you're gonna need to engage
Speaker 3: in to progressively bridge that gap between current reality and
Speaker 3: future ambition. You know, So it's like, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: consistently have to you know, have the salad and not
Speaker 3: go for the ice cream. I'm gonna consistently have to
Speaker 3: eat certain foods and not eat certain foods. I'm gonna
Speaker 3: consistently have to engage in certain exercise behaviors. What exactly
Speaker 3: does that look like? And then at that point you're
Speaker 3: going to focus on the how I think you know,
Speaker 3: people get way way too caught up and way too
Speaker 3: distracted and discouraged when you don't have a very specific formula,
Speaker 3: because it's like, Okay, what's going to happen inevitably when
Speaker 3: I don't do what I thought I was going to do?
Speaker 3: Because that happens to everyone. How do you interpret that?
Speaker 3: How do you react to that? Because that's where I
Speaker 3: see a lot of people stumbling. It's like, Okay, I'm
Speaker 3: going to do this every single day and then okay,
Speaker 3: well they did it six out of seven days, which
Speaker 3: is fantastic, Like that's a great track record. I mean,
Speaker 3: just you know, talk to anyone who's in sales. How
Speaker 3: would it feel to like sell six out of seven prospects?
Speaker 3: You'd be amazing, You'd be brought up on stage at
Speaker 3: every annual corporate summit. But what's the story you tell yourself,
Speaker 3: and do you have the specificity to where that misstep
Speaker 3: can give you more information than you normally would have
Speaker 3: had without it, allowing you to go further and create
Speaker 3: behaviors and strategies that are even more sustainable. So a
Speaker 3: lot of times it's those missteps that are critical to
Speaker 3: long term success, not antagonistic to it. But if you
Speaker 3: don't have a crystallized plan, well, oh my goodness, that
Speaker 3: that's just a complete failure. I either did it or
Speaker 3: I didn't. Now I can't learn no matter what happens.
Speaker 3: So what's on the other end of not being able
Speaker 3: to learn and being disappointed continually frustration and overwhelmed? I
Speaker 3: mean burnout itself. I've been having this conversation a lot,
Speaker 3: so I have a friend of colleague. Definitely not one
Speaker 3: to three minutes. By the way, Oh I I'm over time.
Speaker 1: Not the first and you still haven't answered my question.
Speaker 1: I love what you're saying. But some people know they
Speaker 1: just need to work out five days a week or
Speaker 1: they need to eat better. Like what's the answer to
Speaker 1: the question. People who they know what to do, They
Speaker 1: have clarity about what they should do, They know the how,
Speaker 1: they know the why, they know the reason they've got
Speaker 1: the resources. They know the answer to the question, the
Speaker 1: question to losing weight or building this is that I
Speaker 1: need to do that thing, But I consistently stop. What's
Speaker 1: that about? What's that inconsistency about? By the way, what
Speaker 1: you said was brilliant. I just want to know, because
Speaker 1: there are people listening to this going. I've honestly started
Speaker 1: fifty times, and it's not because I don't know what
Speaker 1: to do. It's not because I'm dumb or I don't
Speaker 1: have resources.
Speaker 3: Here.
Speaker 1: I am twenty years down the track. There's the same
Speaker 1: in a dialogue. I'm still not making the changes that
Speaker 1: I should, and I'm still not following through. What is
Speaker 1: that about? Do you think?
Speaker 3: I think it's a matter of what your expectations are
Speaker 3: on the results that you're going to get and how
Speaker 3: soon you're going to produce those results. I think it's
Speaker 3: also a lack of a refined, clear strategy. And then
Speaker 3: I think it's around how and we've talked about this,
Speaker 3: I think all three of us have talked about this
Speaker 3: in the past. How you view goal setting? Are you
Speaker 3: setting a goal in order to improve performance and something
Speaker 3: like I want to do real, really good especially if
Speaker 3: that goal is externally motivated. You know, I want people
Speaker 3: to give me validation. You know that next family event,
Speaker 3: I want everyone to tell me how amazing I look,
Speaker 3: or are you doing something because you're actually interested in
Speaker 3: that activity and who you get to be doing it.
Speaker 3: So the goal is to be better. Like tomorrow night,
Speaker 3: when I get up to do comedy, there is there's
Speaker 3: a chance that I'm going to completely bomb on stage,
Speaker 3: but that's gonna because I have my set so structured.
Speaker 3: That's going to give me feedback. And if you really
Speaker 3: value what you're doing, you value that form of communication
Speaker 3: and connection, it's just going to help me get better.
Speaker 3: So I could walk off stage and have an audience
Speaker 3: that's dead silence. Now, obviously I don't hope that happens,
Speaker 3: but if it does, I can go, Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: learn some stuff. Let me go back and reflect. I mean,
Speaker 3: that's what wisdom is, right, it's experience upon reflection. So
Speaker 3: what do you want to have happen? What's your motivation?
Speaker 3: Are you looking to do good or you're looking to
Speaker 3: just simply do better. If you're looking to do better,
Speaker 3: every time something happens that causes you to stop it'll
Speaker 3: actually cause you to learn lead with your curiosity. So expectations,
Speaker 3: do you have a structured strategy that's proven to work,
Speaker 3: and what is what is your mindset around what setbacks
Speaker 3: mean to you? I think those three things. It's probably
Speaker 3: a lot more to it, but right now you know
Speaker 3: within first, that's one going I like it, dude.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people get overwhelmed, Bobby,
Speaker 1: with knowing where to start, because it just feel it
Speaker 1: feels like there's just too many things. I feel like
Speaker 1: there's just way too many things. I don't know where
Speaker 1: to start. I don't know what to pay attention to.
Speaker 1: And it's not a bit of analysis, paralysis, overthinking, insecurity,
Speaker 1: self doubt, whatever for people who feel that, people who
Speaker 1: feel overwhelmed and don't know how where to start. What
Speaker 1: you're coaching kind of thoughts around.
Speaker 3: That, Well, first of all, that's valid. I mean James Petrasca,
Speaker 3: he's one of the pioneers behind the trance theoretical model
Speaker 3: of change. Those are the phases of change we go
Speaker 3: through when we're attempting to do something right, especially so yeah,
Speaker 3: we've not typically done before, which requires becoming someone you've
Speaker 3: never been before. So yeah, there's a lot to that,
Speaker 3: and I think it's what happens when you try to
Speaker 3: put all the pieces of the puzzle together all at once.
Speaker 3: What Petrasca's research also shows is that if you are
Speaker 3: able to do something consistently, Actually, Philippo Lali at London
Speaker 3: College University her research found pretty much the same thing,
Speaker 3: if you're able to identify a certain behavior and do
Speaker 3: it with a level of consistency. Not only did ninety
Speaker 3: five percent of the people in the Lalli study actually
Speaker 3: develop long term sustainable habits, but of course, according to Petraska,
Speaker 3: you are twice as likely to succeed the next time
Speaker 3: you select a more ambitious habit to form. So start anywhere.
Speaker 3: That's the thing. It's like, look if it's a fifteen
Speaker 3: minute walk around your neighborhood, as long as you're doing
Speaker 3: it consistently, start there and then think, oh, wow, I've
Speaker 3: been doing this for like thirty days, what else am
Speaker 3: I capable of? And just build piece by piece, Because
Speaker 3: if you're starting and stopping, by going slower and picking
Speaker 3: one thing at a time, you might be a lot further.
Speaker 3: Maybe not like thirty days from now, but three hundred
Speaker 3: and sixty five days from now, from where you would
Speaker 3: be if you started and stopped, started and stopped and
Speaker 3: brought all that frustration, doubt and discouragement with you.
Speaker 1: Yes, love it. What Bubby was talking about there to
Speaker 1: everyone is called the trans theoretical model, which is, like
Speaker 1: he said, by Pretasca and declemente. So I have to
Speaker 1: look at that because there's six different stages and it's
Speaker 1: really quite interesting, from pre contemplation to termination. What I
Speaker 1: wanted to ask you was, how do we balance ambition
Speaker 1: like reaching for the stars whatever that means for us,
Speaker 1: being driven, being focused, grinding, hustling all that with personal
Speaker 1: well being? Like how do I I reckon I probably
Speaker 1: I think I've probably got this figured out now. I
Speaker 1: think I didn't for a long time, and I think
Speaker 1: probably us three who probably shouldn't speak at it. But
Speaker 1: we're a little bit like you know, high performers in
Speaker 1: that we're kind of grind and hustle and work hard
Speaker 1: and maybe overwork and underrest sometimes. So I don't know
Speaker 1: if any of us should answer this, but like balancing
Speaker 1: ambition and drive with well being and physical, mental and
Speaker 1: emotional health.
Speaker 3: Bobby, again, I'm going to give my perspective because this
Speaker 3: is one of those things where there's so much to unpack.
Speaker 3: I mean that depending on the individual, depends on so
Speaker 3: many factors and the social connectors's environment, their upbringing, their beliefs,
Speaker 3: both explicit and unexamined. For me, I feel that well
Speaker 3: being and high performance are inseparable from one another. So
Speaker 3: well being is not only the driver, it's also the
Speaker 3: litmus test to whether or not you're going to sustainably
Speaker 3: be able to do what you're doing in the long term.
Speaker 3: Because when you talk about well being, a lot of
Speaker 3: people think about okay, like health and fitness, and sure,
Speaker 3: you know, health and fitness is in well being encompasses that,
Speaker 3: but it transcends that as well. It is a level
Speaker 3: of social, emotional, mental, and physical functioning that allows you
Speaker 3: I think I'm going lately, I was going with Gallops
Speaker 3: interpretation of well being, which is phenomenal, but I think
Speaker 3: even more specific as Martin Seligman's within the acronym pirma.
Speaker 3: So you are exhibiting a state of well being when
Speaker 3: you are the p engaged in experiencing a higher ratio
Speaker 3: of positive emotions and experiences day to day than negative.
Speaker 3: And there's I mean, Barbara Frederickson had a specific ratio
Speaker 3: around that. I don't think there's a specific ratio. It's
Speaker 3: just it's a lot. More so for every negative experience
Speaker 3: you have in the day, let's say you'll have five
Speaker 3: positive ones, and that's one expression of well being. The
Speaker 3: E is around in agement. And take a look at
Speaker 3: anyone when you walk into a shop or a friend
Speaker 3: of you as that works, and how engaged all they like?
Speaker 3: Are they excited? Do they bring When people talk about
Speaker 3: quietly quitting, what that is is an epidemic of disengagement.
Speaker 3: And I think that and the and the problem we're
Speaker 3: facing with burnout is inseparably connected. And then the R
Speaker 3: is relationships. Are you engaged in stimulating, rewarding healthy relationships
Speaker 3: with other people? The M is do you have a
Speaker 3: clear sense of meaning for your life and for what
Speaker 3: you're doing or are you being thrown about like a
Speaker 3: ship without a rudder in the middle of a storm.
Speaker 3: That's important and when you have all of those things
Speaker 3: lining up, what you're going to say is clear evidence
Speaker 3: of that through accomplishments. And I don't mean like, Okay,
Speaker 3: you got your highest commission because you sold the ten
Speaker 3: million dollar home as an estate agent, although it can
Speaker 3: definitely be aligned with that. But there are certain things
Speaker 3: you're accomplishing that you're doing, you're growing, there's clear evidence,
Speaker 3: and that relates back to efficacy. So when you have
Speaker 3: all of those things in permit and play, you are
Speaker 3: exhibiting signs of well being and you're probably feeling that. Now,
Speaker 3: imagine you take any one of those away, your performance
Speaker 3: is going to suffer.
Speaker 1: I feel like, yeah, that was great, thank you. I
Speaker 1: also feel like, though, that we can see people who,
Speaker 1: in one aspect of their reality, they are high performance
Speaker 1: like athletes, like business people, like scientists, like politics, right,
Speaker 1: and from the outside looking in, they are a high performer.
Speaker 1: They're winning, they're achieving, they're building wealth, they're building brand,
Speaker 1: they're building you know whatever. But away from that there
Speaker 1: is no well being, Like they are mentally and emotionally broken.
Speaker 1: But from the outside looking in, they are ambitious, they
Speaker 1: are successful. So I don't know. For me, I don't
Speaker 1: think they always go together. I think quite often there
Speaker 1: are what we would call high performing people who are
Speaker 1: actually mentally and emotionally broken.
Speaker 3: And so see that one more time.
Speaker 1: I think they are high performing people in a certain
Speaker 1: era of their life and I've worked with them, so
Speaker 1: of you who at the same time are fucking completely unhealthy,
Speaker 1: Like they're depressed, they're anxious, they're not sleeping, they're medicated.
Speaker 1: But people are by to be like them. So I
Speaker 1: think there's a real dichotomy between you know, essentially the
Speaker 1: PR campaign. Oh look at Craig, or look at Bobby
Speaker 1: or Tiff or look at who No, don't look at
Speaker 1: us three we're fucking idiots A speak for yourself apps.
Speaker 1: But you know there are people that we look up to,
Speaker 1: and which is not say this as everyone. But on
Speaker 1: the one hand, what you see is basically a presentation
Speaker 1: or a PR campaign, But away from that there's there's
Speaker 1: just all kinds of brokenness and dysfunction. And like you
Speaker 1: said before, this is not judgment or hate or criticism
Speaker 1: for me, this is empathy. Like I think, I think
Speaker 1: that the the intersection of high performance and brokenness is
Speaker 1: more common than we think.
Speaker 3: I think this goes back to what we're seeing in
Speaker 3: the beginning of the show, right where there's there's success
Speaker 3: and then there's the reality of what it takes to
Speaker 3: get there and why do people not pursue the heart
Speaker 3: And it's like, well, hold on. You got to choose
Speaker 3: your heart and understand like what it means to you
Speaker 3: do you want what you want? So when you say that,
Speaker 3: a lot of times we look at people just at
Speaker 3: the brochure level. So we're a society that idolizes superficial appearances.
Speaker 3: Because let's take a look at what you had said.
Speaker 3: And I'm paraphrasing. I know I made you repeat that twice,
Speaker 3: but for a reason none that's co Let's say let's
Speaker 3: say Tiffany just hypothetically was struggling in an area of work, right,
Speaker 3: and I said, ah, you know what, tiff I know
Speaker 3: somebody and we're thinking about someone who's worth half a
Speaker 3: billion and they own multiple companiesn't really successful. But I
Speaker 3: talked about the day to day reality of that person.
Speaker 3: I said, I have someone who is willing to coach you.
Speaker 3: They've listened to your show, they love you. They're someone
Speaker 3: who is absolutely exhausted, miserable, depressed all the time, and
Speaker 3: just stressed out of their mind. So and you know
Speaker 3: that not coach you, they're willing to mentor you are
Speaker 3: you interested? Well, Tiffany might do a double take and say, well, wait,
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, they're what again? I don't know if I
Speaker 3: want to be mentored by that, because we take a
Speaker 3: look at just what we see on the surface level,
Speaker 3: like it's an iceberg, but we don't take a look
Speaker 3: at what is under the surface. And I'll give you
Speaker 3: I'll give you an analogy with myself because I do
Speaker 3: have that personality from time to time, not always where
Speaker 3: you know, being on the road as a speaker, most
Speaker 3: nights you're not getting quality sleep. You know, you're not
Speaker 3: your diet is not as good as it should be,
Speaker 3: You're stressed out of your mind, You're going from city
Speaker 3: to city. You're in like three different cities in a week.
Speaker 3: That's exhausting. But there's also an emotional and I believe
Speaker 3: well being benefit because I love it so much or
Speaker 3: I did love being on the road so much that
Speaker 3: there was intense there was engagement, but after a while,
Speaker 3: you're gonna break down. Here's here's a more vivid example. Exercise.
Speaker 3: So I was so in love with and attached to
Speaker 3: and let's be honest, dependent upon high intensity exercise. And
Speaker 3: for a lot of you know, for a lot of
Speaker 3: my youth, people look at me and go, oh wow,
Speaker 3: you're in really good shape. I mean, people on a
Speaker 3: lot better shape, but compared to the average person, I
Speaker 3: looked like I was really healthy and really fit. Was
Speaker 3: I well though, because now I've got a detached pectoralis major,
Speaker 3: I've got a dislocated a chromioclivicular joint, I've got multiple
Speaker 3: fractures in my left clavical and let's just keep going
Speaker 3: down the list. Because I was, and that's analogous to
Speaker 3: that person burning both candles at the end, at both ends,
Speaker 3: whether you're doing that on the pitch or in the
Speaker 3: boardroom or in the way, So did I Was I
Speaker 3: exhibiting a high level of well being?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I was exhibiting a high level of fitness at the
Speaker 3: expense of my well being, to the point where I
Speaker 3: can no longer sustain that level of fitness because I
Speaker 3: destroyed my body and the process because I knew. I
Speaker 3: knew how to put the throttle down. What I didn't
Speaker 3: know how to do is put it in first gear.
Speaker 3: I think that's a more vivid example because it's a
Speaker 3: little bit more concrete. We see that person who is
Speaker 3: a pro athlete. They can't walk now now, now, was
Speaker 3: that wrong? No? Because if you ask them maybe they
Speaker 3: might say, well, it was worth it because I got
Speaker 3: to live my dream and I knew this was a
Speaker 3: possible consequence. But that's definitely a possibility if on the
Speaker 3: other end it's like, oh, I wish I never did that,
Speaker 3: that said.
Speaker 1: Shout out to Ronnie Coleman, poor buddy Ronnie Coleman. We
Speaker 1: love him though. All right, so let's talk now about
Speaker 1: somebody who thank you for that. By the way, somebody
Speaker 1: who you sit with them and you, as much as
Speaker 1: you can perceive, you realize that their potential is a nine,
Speaker 1: but their belief in their own capacity and ability is
Speaker 1: a two. So, in other words, their self image doesn't
Speaker 1: match their potential. And by the way, I think this
Speaker 1: is nearly everyone. And again this is a you know,
Speaker 1: there's a myriad of things around this and variables and approaches.
Speaker 1: But so you're talking to someone and you realize the problem,
Speaker 1: or part of the problem at least, is not what's
Speaker 1: possible for them, but rather their belief about what's possible
Speaker 1: for them. Where do you start? How do we get
Speaker 1: people to or support people? I should say, to build
Speaker 1: confidence and to build an understanding of this is one
Speaker 1: of my fucking passions is to help people understand their
Speaker 1: own capacity.
Speaker 3: I think you know, two things pop in my head
Speaker 3: when you ask that question. One is finding areas where
Speaker 3: because a lot of times we recognize our capacity in
Speaker 3: one area, but because of whatever story we tell ourselves
Speaker 3: in another area, we did question it. So through having
Speaker 3: a conversation, I would be very curious to know what
Speaker 3: has typically gone very well for you, Like what do
Speaker 3: people tell you is an attribute or strength or something
Speaker 3: about you that you possess that they admire. Let's talk
Speaker 3: about a specific time in your life when you've exhibited that.
Speaker 3: So like a lot of people who don't know if
Speaker 3: they can make a transition from one career to another career,
Speaker 3: but they transitioned from getting married, having a kid, having
Speaker 3: a bunch of stuff happen in between that that was unexpected,
Speaker 3: and now they've got three kids. All of those three
Speaker 3: kids are well adjusted and quote unquote successful people. And
Speaker 3: you ask them like, oh, you know who's your hero,
Speaker 3: and they'll go, oh, well, mom or dad, And it's
Speaker 3: like it's that same person doesn't know if they can
Speaker 3: make a transition. I want to dig into what did
Speaker 3: you do? What do you attribute to being able to
Speaker 3: produce such extraordinary results in one area of your life
Speaker 3: and then back up and get a little bit more
Speaker 3: strategic about how we can take all that stuff about
Speaker 3: you and overlay that into another area. Because what exactly,
Speaker 3: what exactly is the difference? Like what makes what makes
Speaker 3: you know accounting to personal training impossible? But like raising
Speaker 3: three kids no worries because a lot of other people
Speaker 3: would go, oh, I'll take the career change that other
Speaker 3: thing that sounds very very hard. Another thing is like
Speaker 3: it is just vicarious experience. The fact of the matter is,
Speaker 3: I don't think anybody, like you said, has one hundred
Speaker 3: percent belief in their ability to do anything. So who
Speaker 3: do you know who's doing what you want to do
Speaker 3: or who's done something similar to what you're looking at doing.
Speaker 3: Talk to me about that person. What do you think
Speaker 3: they believe? Is it possible that sometimes they doubt? And
Speaker 3: when they doubt, what do you think they do to
Speaker 3: overcome that and still engage in the process that allows
Speaker 3: them to be where they are or more important, be
Speaker 3: who they are. So what do you think those attributes
Speaker 3: are that they possess? What do you think they do
Speaker 3: every single day? What are some of the things that
Speaker 3: they wouldn't do every day or most days they wouldn't
Speaker 3: do it because it's a distraction. Now, out of all
Speaker 3: of that, is there one thing or two things that
Speaker 3: you believe align with your level of confidence, your ability,
Speaker 3: that you can start experimenting with for a giving amount
Speaker 3: of time and see how that works for you. So
Speaker 3: borrow someone else's belief vicariously, go through vicarious experiences. And
Speaker 3: then you know, a third thing would be, you know
Speaker 3: who really supports you, Okay, how can you enlist their support?
Speaker 3: Like Will Marudolf. Will Marudolf's success story is rooted not
Speaker 3: in everything she overcame, which is extraordinary, but it was
Speaker 3: rooted in her mother's commitment. You know, her mothers simply
Speaker 3: would not be denied when Will Merudolf was a young,
Speaker 3: frightened child and hadn't really lived long enough to have
Speaker 3: a level of self efficacy to ever conceptualize that she
Speaker 3: would be able to walk, not to mention be one
Speaker 3: of the greatest athletes in modern history. So I mean
Speaker 3: those three things is finding a different area, go to
Speaker 3: a look at your life from a different vantage point,
Speaker 3: because you'll find you'll find competence there. Another thing is
Speaker 3: borrow vicariously, you know, and then kind of model other
Speaker 3: people's behaviors and attitudes that you think allowed them to
Speaker 3: be who they are. And you know, who can you
Speaker 3: elicit supports?
Speaker 1: You love it? I would also add, I think, like
Speaker 1: from a point of view of how do I build
Speaker 1: self belief? How do I build confidence? Like in a
Speaker 1: really practical way, I'd say, well, let's say you've got
Speaker 1: no belief at all that you could run a marathon.
Speaker 1: You know, this is just an example. It's not about
Speaker 1: running marathons. It's about visualizing something and doing it.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 1: Of course you can't run a marathon because you haven't
Speaker 1: trained at the moment. Of course you don't have the fitness.
Speaker 1: Of course you don't have the perhaps the equipment. But
Speaker 1: I would say, all right, well what can you do today?
Speaker 1: You know? You go, well, I could walk, I could
Speaker 1: probably do a walk, job, I could probably cover a kilometer.
Speaker 1: And I feel like that's that's really the process for
Speaker 1: so much thing, so many things like if you think
Speaker 1: about Roll with the Punches your podcast, So you're now
Speaker 1: how many of you a thousand episodes give or take, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so a thousand episodes ish? And how did you get good?
Speaker 1: Like how did you get good on this show? How
Speaker 1: did you get good on your show? How did you
Speaker 1: build brand and confidence and competence? Well, you did the
Speaker 1: first show. How great were you on the first show? Probably? Yeah,
Speaker 1: Well maybe you're the maybe you're the unicorn that was
Speaker 1: brilliant from the start, but us normal people. My first
Speaker 1: one hundred episodes were somewhere between shits and average. And
Speaker 1: then you go, but how do I become more confident?
Speaker 1: How do I build self belief? How do I build excellence?
Speaker 1: I think, well, just something that you can do, anything
Speaker 1: that you can do to create momentum. Anything, you know,
Speaker 1: have a conversation, roll the dice, do a podcast that's bad,
Speaker 1: Do a bad one, and then next time, dude, one
Speaker 1: that's maybe not quite as bad, and then maybe episode
Speaker 1: ten will be rocketing up towards fucking mediocre. But you
Speaker 1: can't get to excellent without being the white belt, you know,
Speaker 1: as we say so many times. All right, Bobby, we've
Speaker 1: got a couple. Go, I'm loving it. Let's talk about pressure.
Speaker 1: Life is pressure, or it can be pressure. Achieving can
Speaker 1: be pressure. Being able to self regulate and make hard
Speaker 1: decisions and do things under pressure is part of the
Speaker 1: human experience. And the dichotomy is that while this is
Speaker 1: a requirement for thriving and surviving and building resilience. At
Speaker 1: the same time, many of us are addicted to comfort
Speaker 1: and certainty and predictability. So talk to us about as
Speaker 1: a coach helping people to become better performers under pressure. Please.
Speaker 3: I want to go back to a conversation I had
Speaker 3: with a colleague of mine because he's Okay, is just
Speaker 3: absolutely brilliant. He is a doctor at Yale University and
Speaker 3: he trains teams of doctors, and we were having a
Speaker 3: conversation about a subject that is coming up increasingly, which
Speaker 3: is burnout. It's talking about, well, some major causes of
Speaker 3: burnout that he has seen in his physicians are they
Speaker 3: cannot see into the horizon right like next month will
Speaker 3: be markedly different than it is today, Like what I'm
Speaker 3: struggling with it can get better. And they seem to
Speaker 3: struggle with a sense of self of learned helplessness. So
Speaker 3: no matter what I do, no matter how hard I work,
Speaker 3: no matter how hard I try, things are not going
Speaker 3: to be different. And I think that's really important is
Speaker 3: a sense of meaning that is bigger than your daily struggles.
Speaker 3: And there's a lot of short like there's a lot
Speaker 3: of uncertain in the world. There's a lot of fear
Speaker 3: in the world that's understandable, like what is that meaning?
Speaker 3: Like what is most important to you? What does that
Speaker 3: look like in the future, and what are things that
Speaker 3: you can do every day. This is why habit formation
Speaker 3: is so critical, because it's not just in developing the habit.
Speaker 3: It's like you are engaging in something and that engagement
Speaker 3: is evidence of ability that is connected to a future
Speaker 3: state that by itself decreases the adverse effects of living
Speaker 3: in a high stress environment. Just that, just that expanded
Speaker 3: locus of control because the thing and the competence behind
Speaker 3: the thing is inseparable. I say, if I do this
Speaker 3: every day, it's going to lead to that, and every
Speaker 3: day I engage in it is the irrefutable evidence, or
Speaker 3: as James Clear says, it is the vote I am
Speaker 3: casting for who I am, my identity. So I think
Speaker 3: that that's CRITI call and also knowing. I think knowing
Speaker 3: when to when to pull back, like resilience is about adaptability.
Speaker 3: It's like knowing when to keep going and knowing when
Speaker 3: to unplug. I think that's critical as well, because at
Speaker 3: some point you know you're when you get completely exhausted
Speaker 3: and frustrated. You don't have the capacity to engage in reasoning,
Speaker 3: planning and proper decision making. So having that level of
Speaker 3: honesty and self awareness is probably important.
Speaker 1: And what about for you, t If I want you
Speaker 1: to answer this too, but Bobby will go first, if
Speaker 1: that's all right, Like a mistake or a failure, or
Speaker 1: a disappointment or a fuck up, whatever you want to
Speaker 1: call it, that you experienced yourself something that didn't turn
Speaker 1: out how you wanted it to or thought it would,
Speaker 1: something that was, maybe from the outside looking in, a failure,
Speaker 1: but it ended up for you being like a light
Speaker 1: bulb moment or an awakening or a lesson that became
Speaker 1: invaluable moving forward. I'm sure there's a bunch of these,
Speaker 1: because I think, you know, for people like well, people
Speaker 1: like me anyone, I'm sure you too, Like I tend
Speaker 1: to more, I tend to learn more when I fuck
Speaker 1: something up than when I get something right. But is
Speaker 1: there anything that springs to mind for both of you?
Speaker 1: We'll start with you, Bobby.
Speaker 3: I was hoping we would start with tear F here, because,
Speaker 3: like you've just described the past two years of my life,
Speaker 3: and this is something I haven't been very good at
Speaker 3: as of lait.
Speaker 1: I think also before you dive in, so what is it?
Speaker 1: But I also want people because I mean, this is
Speaker 1: not for you or tier for me. This is for
Speaker 1: our listeners, like I want them because this is everyone
Speaker 1: like people are. We're always fucking up. We're always getting
Speaker 1: let down, We're always letting ourselves down, We're always getting
Speaker 1: things right and wrong. Also, we're always waking up in
Speaker 1: the middle of a trough, not a peak, all that
Speaker 1: human shit. I mean, how do we turn the negative
Speaker 1: components of our experiences as much as possible anyway without
Speaker 1: being delusional? Rah rah self helpers? How do we try
Speaker 1: and turn that around so there's something positive in that
Speaker 1: that I can then go cool. Yeah, I didn't want
Speaker 1: that to happen. It did happen, But here's what I learned,
Speaker 1: and here's what I know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's what I'm saying because I'm coming at
Speaker 3: this from my own perspective and I want full DISCLOSU
Speaker 3: because I don't want to be a hypocrite. He going, oh, well,
Speaker 3: here's what you would do. Meanwhile, I've been struggling with
Speaker 3: this shit myself, so I just want to be very
Speaker 3: clear about that looking back. One, sit in it, like
Speaker 3: you don't have to have a strategy, have a definition
Speaker 3: and explanation or clarity straight away, Like sit in it
Speaker 3: for a little while because your emotions are probably running
Speaker 3: so high and you're probably who depleted that if you
Speaker 3: jump into okay, what does this mean? I got to
Speaker 3: fix this? I going to move forward, You're probably going
Speaker 3: to bring yourself to a point and burnout, which is
Speaker 3: going to make everything worse. Second is perspective, like when
Speaker 3: you're explaining this in your head, and this is something
Speaker 3: that I became aware of recently. Any time you look
Speaker 3: at a massive life disappointment as it was all my fault,
Speaker 3: like everything that happened was me, or it was not
Speaker 3: my fault at all, like it was everything and everyone
Speaker 3: outside of me. Both perspectives are damaging and delusional because
Speaker 3: that's just not reality. You're always involved in what happens,
Speaker 3: regardless of your intention to some degree, and you are
Speaker 3: not almighty, all knowing and all powerful to where everything
Speaker 3: is your fault. I think I think that there's a
Speaker 3: lot of thought fallacies in that, so being measured. First
Speaker 3: of all, take a look at what happened not not
Speaker 3: your feelings about it, not what you need. You can
Speaker 3: examine that later, but just look at what happened. Then
Speaker 3: start to go, Okay, why did this impact me the
Speaker 3: way it did? Like, what was I hoping for in
Speaker 3: this decision and this course of action? What was sacred
Speaker 3: to me? What did I value that caused me to
Speaker 3: pursue this, or maybe what caused me to pursue it
Speaker 3: was an abandonment of my values, and my ego took
Speaker 3: over to where I know, I want one thing, but
Speaker 3: oh I really wanted everyone to see me as this
Speaker 3: other thing. So I took this career choice even though
Speaker 3: it didn't mean anything to me personally. But you know
Speaker 3: Dad would be proud. So really examine what were your
Speaker 3: motivations behind this, and then what are some of the
Speaker 3: most important lessons, like you said, that you can pull
Speaker 3: out of it? How do those lessons apply to helping
Speaker 3: you align more with the values you hold, the identity
Speaker 3: that you want to cultivate for yourself that you would
Speaker 3: be proud of that you uncovered it in the introspective
Speaker 3: part of this in the first place. And what's like
Speaker 3: one small step that you can take exercising the lessons
Speaker 3: you've learned, and that's not perfect, and it still sucks
Speaker 3: and it's still going to hurt. But I think that
Speaker 3: kind of gives you insights and actions that, regardless of
Speaker 3: what you're going through emotionally, can kind of put you
Speaker 3: in a state of forward momentum towards the next chapter
Speaker 3: of your life, where in hindsight this won't have as
Speaker 3: much weight.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Robert. I've don't know that you actually told
Speaker 1: us specifically when fuck up that you made at all,
Speaker 1: but anyway, that's okay.
Speaker 3: I yeah, I don't, I know, that's all right.
Speaker 1: It was good.
Speaker 3: It was both of you know this fuck up very
Speaker 3: very well.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, you did well, you did well. I'm
Speaker 1: just fucking with you. Tif what's something a mistake of
Speaker 1: fuck up, of failure that actually became something of a
Speaker 1: positive when you got your head around it or moved
Speaker 1: through it.
Speaker 2: But I think I bang on this about this one
Speaker 2: a lot, which was the businesses I went into and
Speaker 2: that didn't go well. But as Bobby was talking, I
Speaker 2: just had the chance to reflect a little because I've
Speaker 2: always said I really tend to thrive and find my
Speaker 2: feet in the middle of adversity. So when shit hits
Speaker 2: the fan, and I was like, that's not helpful for people.
Speaker 2: But what I remembered was last year I listened to
Speaker 2: a podcast with Stephen Bartlett speaking to a doctor. I
Speaker 2: can't remember his name, but I was obsessed with it.
Speaker 2: And one of the things he said, and it always
Speaker 2: stuck with me, was about negative energy being the primary
Speaker 2: motivator for change, the primary driver, and so it was
Speaker 2: talking about the idea of venting. So what comes with
Speaker 2: that influx of hugely negative energy is this influx of
Speaker 2: motivation and that begins this wave that I then get
Speaker 2: on and ride. And so I tend to make the
Speaker 2: most of shitty situations that are out of my control.
Speaker 2: And I guess I put it down to that is
Speaker 2: it comes with that, So I lean on that when
Speaker 2: shit hits the fan or doesn't go the way I
Speaker 2: want it to.
Speaker 1: HM. Very good, very specific.
Speaker 2: I like it.
Speaker 1: Thank you, giddy up butter cups. Well that might do us.
Speaker 1: That was good. I mean, I think for me, if
Speaker 1: I was thinking about when both of you were chatting,
Speaker 1: I was thinking, what's something that I not so much
Speaker 1: a fuck up, but just something that I got wrong
Speaker 1: or I think a flaw in my thinking and my motivation.
Speaker 1: And this is a little bit embarrassing, but this is
Speaker 1: just true. I think when I was younger, I really
Speaker 1: wanted to be popular. I wanted people to just think
Speaker 1: I was great, And even early days of doing all
Speaker 1: the stuff, like I chased popularity. That's not the only thing,
Speaker 1: but I really wanted that. And then I kind of
Speaker 1: realized popularity is not love. Popularity is not like it's
Speaker 1: kind of almost like emotional fairy floss. And so I've
Speaker 1: shifted from being enamored with that to being more not
Speaker 1: concerned is not the right word, but more aware of
Speaker 1: or wanting to be respected rather than necessarily liked. You know,
Speaker 1: I don't want people to dislike me. I definitely don't
Speaker 1: want to be unpopular, but it's like, yeah, when for me,
Speaker 1: when your driver is popularity, you're probably not going to
Speaker 1: say some things sometimes which you actually think are true
Speaker 1: and potentially powerful, because you don't want to fuck three
Speaker 1: people off, so you tend to And I used to
Speaker 1: do this. Obviously, we know I don't do now, but
Speaker 1: I used to do it a little bit where and
Speaker 1: I know I get called the velvet sledgehammer and all
Speaker 1: that shit, but believe it or not. I used to
Speaker 1: be super aware of just not saying anything because I
Speaker 1: was a bit of a people pleaser. I want everyone
Speaker 1: to fucking love me. And One, it doesn't work. They're
Speaker 1: not all going to love you. Two people are still
Speaker 1: going to hate you. Three it doesn't work on a
Speaker 1: personal level, for it lacks integrity and authenticity, you know.
Speaker 1: And five the more, as long as I'm compassionate and
Speaker 1: as long as my intentions are in the right place,
Speaker 1: I'll still get things wrong, by the way, even with
Speaker 1: good intentions. But I'm way more comfortable in my own
Speaker 1: skin now, even though I have blue hate me and
Speaker 1: hate my shit than I've ever been steps down off soapbox.
Speaker 2: I love that I was before you said the word integrity,
Speaker 2: I was going to ask you, is it more about
Speaker 2: integrity now?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And I And I mean what I love about talking
Speaker 1: to Bobby, talking to you, what I love about having
Speaker 1: these conversations where it's not scripted, We're not following anything.
Speaker 1: We go where we go, there's a bit of banter,
Speaker 1: there's a bullshit, bit of bullshit. We don't have to
Speaker 1: agree on everything. If we get on here and always
Speaker 1: agree on everything everyone, then you know, it's bullshit. You know,
Speaker 1: the conversations bullshit. If we always agree on everything, then
Speaker 1: we're just producing some kind of podcast fairy philosopher mass consumption.
Speaker 1: I like the fact that we don't see either eye
Speaker 1: on everything, we don't always overlap or because that's the
Speaker 1: fucking human experience, you know. And I think the fact
Speaker 1: that all of us get on here and we think
Speaker 1: out loud about what makes things work for humans and
Speaker 1: what matters for humans, and how we do and think
Speaker 1: better ourselves individually, but also how we as coaches and
Speaker 1: fans of people and supporters of people, how we strive
Speaker 1: to be a positive in others' lives while also being
Speaker 1: kind of dysfunctional ourselves. And as I've said many times,
Speaker 1: I think it's true for all of us. If I
Speaker 1: wait until I've got all my shit together before I
Speaker 1: help people, I'm never helping one person. So you know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't have to be one or the other. It
Speaker 1: can be both. Bobby, how do people connect with you
Speaker 1: and follow you? My friend?
Speaker 3: Well, I might have a stalker. That's one methodology, right, Okay,
Speaker 3: so we're more appropriate, would you know? I'm no, I'm
Speaker 3: not saying I would. I just think. I just think
Speaker 3: I have a stalker because, like, there's this person that
Speaker 3: follows me home every single day. I mean it's not
Speaker 3: the same person, it's a different person every day, but
Speaker 3: you know, it feels like stalking. More appropriately, you can
Speaker 3: connect with me on LinkedIn or on Robert Cupuccio dot
Speaker 3: com sefbo dot com.
Speaker 1: If have you noticed his amazing capacity not to answer
Speaker 1: the simplest of questions.
Speaker 2: It's like he goes high performance human that no one's
Speaker 2: got a fucking license to drive.
Speaker 1: Yes, it's like fucking good.
Speaker 2: How do we steer it?
Speaker 1: Yeah? How do we just? Let's hold his brain in
Speaker 1: those special gloves, don't fucking drop it. We don't exactly
Speaker 1: know how it works. We know it works, but nobody understands.
Speaker 3: If you ever had the question in your mind what
Speaker 3: happens when traumatic brain injury meets to rats, there it is.
Speaker 1: It's like quantum physics. We all know it's brilliant, we
Speaker 1: just don't exactly know what the fuck it means. Tiffany
Speaker 1: and Cook, thank you so much, Bobby, thank you. We'll
Speaker 1: say goodbye a fair but listeners appreciate you. If you're
Speaker 1: not on the You Project Facebook page, go over there
Speaker 1: sign up there's fucking nothing. There's no cost. There's just
Speaker 1: a community of people maybe like you, that want to
Speaker 1: talk and interact and give feedback on the show and
Speaker 1: suggest ideas and be part of a community that's actually
Speaker 1: not screaming at each other and shoving horrible opinions and
Speaker 1: bloody biases down each other's throat. We thought we'd try
Speaker 1: something new, a positive space on the internet, So come
Speaker 1: and join us. Thanks guys,