Speaker 1: Good evening well first tonight to the outrageous move by
Speaker 1: Chinese officials to bodyblock Australian journalist at chang Lei at
Speaker 1: a press conference on Australian soil. We're still waiting for
Speaker 1: the Prime Minister and the Foreign Minister to properly condemn
Speaker 1: this unacceptable act. Here in Australia, we fiercely protect our
Speaker 1: freedom of the press, unlike in China, where journalists are
Speaker 1: locked up or regularly disappear. The visiting Chinese premiere and
Speaker 1: his henchmen apparently don't respect our laws or our values,
Speaker 1: despite them claiming Australia is their new BFF, Panda diplomacy
Speaker 1: and all of that. Well, Journalist Chang Lai was imprisoned
Speaker 1: in Beijing for three years. She missed out on crucial
Speaker 1: time with her children. She'll never get back. It was
Speaker 1: deeply traumatic for her.
Speaker 2: Twelve hours a day of pure sitting and very little
Speaker 2: chance to get up and just walk, just pace around
Speaker 2: a very little room. They say that they gave me
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes of fresh air, but all it meant was
Speaker 2: there's a window up the top that the guard would
Speaker 2: open for fifteen minutes. But the curtains are still drawn,
Speaker 2: and you never saw anything except the blue curtains and
Speaker 2: the mottled carpet and the beij padded walls. Silence.
Speaker 3: And that was Cheen Lei.
Speaker 1: In October twenty twenty three, after her eventual release, she
Speaker 1: was working as a television host in China when she
Speaker 1: was wrongfully imprisoned.
Speaker 3: Now she's a journalist here.
Speaker 1: On Sky News, and today she attended the press briefing
Speaker 1: in Canbra with Anthony Albanesi and the Chinese premiere. She
Speaker 1: was aggressively body blocked by Chinese officials.
Speaker 4: Have a look signed.
Speaker 1: I mean, you can see that man handling there of
Speaker 1: the by the Chinese official of an Australian consteal, a
Speaker 1: diplomatic staff member. And you also saw there chang Ley
Speaker 1: taking a photograph of the officials. Now, clearly an Australian
Speaker 1: official asking the Chinese embassy staff to move is important,
Speaker 1: and yet they refused. That in itself is shocking. Chang
Speaker 1: Ley also tried to move seats. She swapped with another
Speaker 1: Australian journalist, but the Chinese officials followed and once.
Speaker 3: Again blocked her view.
Speaker 1: She spoke about what happened to her on Sky News
Speaker 1: earlier well it's.
Speaker 5: Typical right with these events, especially if they're attaching importance
Speaker 5: to the friendly facade that they're carefully staging, that voices
Speaker 5: of discord or you know, the presence of someone who's
Speaker 5: a bit controversial not harm that. And in fact, at
Speaker 5: the I guess the briefing by Prime Minister of Nazi
Speaker 5: and premierly Lee Chang, that's a freidancelant just now really
Speaker 5: highlighted that because they went to great lengths to block
Speaker 5: me from the cameras and to flank me. And I'm
Speaker 5: only guessing that is to prevent me from saying something
Speaker 5: or doing something that they think would be a.
Speaker 2: Bad look, but that itself was a bad look.
Speaker 3: This can't be glossed over.
Speaker 1: And it's emblematic of how China treats its journalists and
Speaker 1: its critics. I saw a firsthand when I was writing
Speaker 1: my book and investigating the origins of COVID, how whistleblowers
Speaker 1: who tried to raise the alarm about the new pandemic
Speaker 1: went missing, never to be seen again. Even doctors some
Speaker 1: bravely risked their life to give me information over encrypted
Speaker 1: platforms because the time topic was that important to them.
Speaker 1: But the shamelessness of these Chinese officials trying to flex
Speaker 1: their muscles, and the fact that they felt emboldened to
Speaker 1: act like that in front of our Prime minister, in
Speaker 1: front of the full press gallery and in front of
Speaker 1: the cameras well, that tells you everything about the nature
Speaker 1: of the current Chinese regime. This is a serious diplomatic incident.
Speaker 1: Australian officials were involved. They asked the Chinese officials to move,
Speaker 1: yet hours later the Prime Minister claimed he still knew
Speaker 1: nothing about it.
Speaker 6: There's some of the documentsal being signed in the committee
Speaker 6: room today. Some Chinese embassy officials tried to block my
Speaker 6: colleague here in Chanlai from view of cameras. Is it
Speaker 6: acceptable to import that kind of behavior into the heart
Speaker 6: of Australia's democracy here in parliaments.
Speaker 7: Well, I didn't see that.
Speaker 8: I saw.
Speaker 7: Chang Lai and we smiled at each other during Jerry
Speaker 7: during the event. Look, I'm not aware of those issues.
Speaker 7: It's important that people be allowed to participate fully and
Speaker 7: that's what should happen in this building or anywhere else
Speaker 7: in Australia.
Speaker 1: That is a very weak answer from the Prime Minister. Now,
Speaker 1: Shadow Trade Minister Simon Birmingham didn't quite believe that answer
Speaker 1: from the PM either, because.
Speaker 3: It is unbelievable that no one would have told him.
Speaker 1: About it, and Shadowhome Affairs Minister James Patterson also said
Speaker 1: that Albaneze's version of events lacked credibility.
Speaker 9: I would have thought, Tom, it would be surprising if
Speaker 9: the PM's advisors didn't say, by the way, Prime Minister,
Speaker 9: you might get asked a question about this, and I
Speaker 9: suspect he should have been prepared and even if he
Speaker 9: didn't quite see it taking place, should have known fully
Speaker 9: that it was happening.
Speaker 10: But it's not credible, Tom. It's been publicly reported earlier
Speaker 10: this year that the Minister employs eleven media advisors in
Speaker 10: his office, and among them are people who might be
Speaker 10: surprised to some of your audience, but watch Sky News.
Speaker 10: Standard operating procedure for a media advisor is to brief
Speaker 10: your principle on recent breaking events before they go out
Speaker 10: into a press conference. It is completely not credible the
Speaker 10: Primeister did not know when he walked into the press
Speaker 10: conference that this incident happened.
Speaker 1: And James Patterson's view is that this is now a
Speaker 1: pattern of behavior from Albanisi where he is repeatedly and
Speaker 1: comprehensively failed to call out Chinese aggression, including and especially
Speaker 1: when it involves our military who're putting their lives on
Speaker 1: the line to protect our country. And James Patterson will
Speaker 1: be on my show tonight to speak about this. But
Speaker 1: just for a moment, think about the courage it would
Speaker 1: have taken for Chang Lei to even be in that
Speaker 1: room in the first place, in the presence of Chinese
Speaker 1: officials who locked her up.
Speaker 3: For three years.
Speaker 1: She never knew if she was going to see her
Speaker 1: children again, or sunlight again. You can only imagine the
Speaker 1: emotional trauma of walking into that room, the courage to
Speaker 1: sit there, the memories It would inevitably dredge up, but
Speaker 1: she would know or trust that she's now in Australia,
Speaker 1: She's safe, no one can touch her. And yet henchmen
Speaker 1: for the PRC tried to exercise their own totalitarian values
Speaker 1: right here in Australia in Parliament House. And the question
Speaker 1: now is will Albanesi strongly condemn this?
Speaker 3: Will Penny Wong? How can Chinese.
Speaker 1: Officials feel so emboldened to act like this while they're
Speaker 1: visiting Australia. Perhaps it's because they believe they've already bought
Speaker 1: our silence. Albanesi will not call out China's foreign interference,
Speaker 1: it's espionage's deensive militious cyber attacks, or its human rights
Speaker 1: abuses in public.
Speaker 3: He will not ask how.
Speaker 1: The COVID pandemic started, despite many Australians still suffering from
Speaker 1: long COVID or vaccine injuries. He won't mention the Muslim
Speaker 1: wigas in labour camps in Shingxiang. You wonder if he
Speaker 1: only cares about the plight of Muslims when it's to
Speaker 1: do with Israel.
Speaker 3: We're seeing from.
Speaker 1: Labor this dysfunctional moral compass, where Albinezi feels a compulsion
Speaker 1: to condemn in the strongest possible terms our ally Israel,
Speaker 1: while staying silent on the greatest aggressive in our region, China.
Speaker 1: This is despite the fact Israel is a democracy defending
Speaker 1: its people from terrorists in a war that is as
Speaker 1: much about the existential threat of the Jewish homeland as
Speaker 1: it is about protecting the value that underpin our Western civilization,
Speaker 1: and China is part of the emerging axis of evil
Speaker 1: along with Russia, Iran and North Korea. But Albinizi appears
Speaker 1: to ignore the reality of these threats. They just don't
Speaker 1: suit him politically or ideologically. Now, also coming up on
Speaker 1: the show tonight, Peter Dutton is catching up to Albinizi
Speaker 1: in the polls.
Speaker 3: But can he win the next election? My political analysts
Speaker 3: will join me later in the program.
Speaker 1: Plus more downing allegations of sexual harassment at nine as
Speaker 1: one TV legend speaks out to say the behavior is
Speaker 1: entrenched at the network and calls for changes. Authorities ignore
Speaker 1: pro Palestinian protesters proud display of terrorist emblems. But now
Speaker 1: let's bring in tonight's panel. As always on a Monday,
Speaker 1: Sky News, host Listora and contributor Joe Hildebrand.
Speaker 3: Welcome to you both.
Speaker 11: Welcome, thank you lovely.
Speaker 1: Here Joe, let's start with you. I want to get
Speaker 1: your reaction to what we saw today with Cheng Ley.
Speaker 12: Look, I think Cheng Lai. I was talking about it
Speaker 12: on this network in this seat just last night. Cheng
Speaker 12: Lay is an incredible human being. I admire her resilience
Speaker 12: and strength enormously. I played, you know, I remember writing
Speaker 12: a column, you know, calling for her release, like so
Speaker 12: many others. I'm not pretending that idea anything particularly special,
Speaker 12: but I just remember that as I was writing and thinking,
Speaker 12: oh my god, we're just never going to see this
Speaker 12: poor woman again.
Speaker 11: She's not going to see her kids again. And you know,
Speaker 11: I hate bad news.
Speaker 12: I much prefer to deal with a rough and tumble
Speaker 12: of politics and horrible things like that. And yet she's here,
Speaker 12: she got back. Part of that, I think we have
Speaker 12: to acknowledge was due to the way Anthony Alberanzi was
Speaker 12: able to reset the relationship and he was able to
Speaker 12: have a word with Jijiping on the sidelines of the
Speaker 12: G twenty. Apparently this is how it came about, and
Speaker 12: so I think we sort of have to acknowledge that.
Speaker 12: Having said that, today, the biness of what happened today
Speaker 12: was clearly horrendous. I imagine it would have been. And
Speaker 12: you can just see from Chenley herself how incredibly you know, sensible,
Speaker 12: and you know she didn't she didn't ge hysterical about it,
Speaker 12: she didn't jump up and down. She was very clear,
Speaker 12: she was very analytical about what happened, which just makes
Speaker 12: me admire even more. But but that I think, you know,
Speaker 12: underlied the horror of what we were actually seeing, which
Speaker 12: is this kind of brute force totalitarian tactic in what
Speaker 12: is meant to be the heart of Australian democracy. I
Speaker 12: do think it's plausible to PM. I think the PM
Speaker 12: said he didn't see it. I'm not sure if he
Speaker 12: said he didn't know about it.
Speaker 3: But he said he said he wasn't aware of it.
Speaker 11: He wasn't aware.
Speaker 12: He said he didn't see it. But that might have
Speaker 12: been a bit of plausible deniability. It may well have
Speaker 12: been that. Absolutely as soon as Premier League gets on
Speaker 12: a plane and it's no longer in the country, I
Speaker 12: think it.
Speaker 11: But that that is the nature.
Speaker 1: There'll be in w A tomorrow, so we can expect
Speaker 1: that the Prime Minister will be I want to ask
Speaker 1: you about two things. One that vision that we saw
Speaker 1: where the Australian official goes up to the Chinese officials
Speaker 1: clearly says can you stop standing in front of Chang.
Speaker 3: Lay and following her wherever she sits.
Speaker 1: And the Chinese official man handles her, it touches her,
Speaker 1: you know, and it overrules her. I mean, they are
Speaker 1: visiting guests in Australia, but the fact that they feel
Speaker 1: so emboldened to be this aggressive to stand in front
Speaker 1: of Cheng Lai after locking her up wrongly for three
Speaker 1: years tells you so much about how they see the
Speaker 1: current relationship with Australia.
Speaker 3: We are subservient to them and they know it. They
Speaker 3: know that we know about the cyber attacks.
Speaker 13: On the daily that are targeting our energy, our water,
Speaker 13: our transport systems. They know that we know about all
Speaker 13: their moves in the South China, see them threatening Taiwan.
Speaker 13: They know that we answer to Washington and they're our
Speaker 13: closest ally. They talk about this at depths. I love
Speaker 13: reading their Global Times because it's straight well, our closest ally,
Speaker 13: and we follow them into every war that they choose
Speaker 13: to join.
Speaker 14: They they know where we stand, we know where they stand,
Speaker 14: and we're in this ridiculous pantomime where they know that
Speaker 14: we know that, they know that we know, and yet
Speaker 14: diplomacy has to happen.
Speaker 3: We are very much, still, very much reliant on China.
Speaker 13: They know that too, and so I actually don't find
Speaker 13: this all that shocking or at all. This is the
Speaker 13: Communist Chinese Party acting for all the world like the
Speaker 13: Chinese Communist Party. And what stood out most to me
Speaker 13: about this is we say, oh, how could they how
Speaker 13: dare they there on our soil?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 14: But who won.
Speaker 3: Who won that little altercation?
Speaker 13: Did we have you know, actual security guards escort them
Speaker 13: from the building and say, no, we are standing up
Speaker 13: for this woman in our press back.
Speaker 3: No we didn't.
Speaker 13: They won that altercation and China saw that, and all
Speaker 13: the eyes in China saw that, and so did every
Speaker 13: single Australian who actually thinks that this government, if they
Speaker 13: are misled enough to believe that this government can even
Speaker 13: stand up for Australians to China, even on that tiny,
Speaker 13: small scale, it would have sent a message.
Speaker 3: But we didn't send it, did we I.
Speaker 11: But just to clarify, everyone in Australia would have seen it.
Speaker 3: No, no, because there's no free press, which is appalling.
Speaker 13: Although it would be something that they would be happy
Speaker 13: to show because again they won. This is us pushing
Speaker 13: around China.
Speaker 11: You would never show like that.
Speaker 12: That would just show this is Australia welcoming with And
Speaker 12: you're absolutely right.
Speaker 11: It is a dance.
Speaker 12: It's often a dance in which you get your hands dirty,
Speaker 12: you know, if you're you know, you're always evaluating, you know,
Speaker 12: all right, do we make a big fuss about this?
Speaker 12: Do we make a fuss about it publicly? Do we
Speaker 12: do it privately. If we do that, what's China's likely response?
Speaker 12: Will we lose this free trade?
Speaker 3: Now that's the whole point, Joe.
Speaker 1: They condemn Israel every single day when Israel is doing
Speaker 1: very little, if anything wrong at all.
Speaker 3: China engaging in the most egregious act.
Speaker 1: Against Australia, against our national sovereignty, and our prime minister
Speaker 1: is silent even when it happens.
Speaker 12: If he's right with our biggest trading partner, the response
Speaker 12: would be very different.
Speaker 11: And that's just real politics. It's ugly, but it's sadly true.
Speaker 3: All right, let's move on.
Speaker 1: Jerry Seinfield is in Australia at the moment, in Sydney
Speaker 1: in fact, for his stand up show, and he was
Speaker 1: heckled by a pro Palestinian protester who tried to throw
Speaker 1: him off mid performance.
Speaker 3: If you haven't seen that yet, here it is.
Speaker 15: It's a show war.
Speaker 16: Here.
Speaker 1: And if you didn't love Jerry Seinfield already, we'll have
Speaker 1: a look at his epic response.
Speaker 2: We have a.
Speaker 3: Genius, lady, gentleman, He's sved the Middle East.
Speaker 2: It's the Jewish thing, is that too?
Speaker 11: One's doing everything.
Speaker 3: You're really influencing everyone here.
Speaker 9: You're all on your.
Speaker 10: Sign because you made your points so well and in
Speaker 10: the right venue, You've come into the.
Speaker 3: Right place or polute.
Speaker 17: Joe.
Speaker 3: That is comedy gold from Jerry. What a good way
Speaker 3: to handle that.
Speaker 12: I feel like Jerry Seinfeld has just put, you know,
Speaker 12: the tens of thousands of words of column inches that
Speaker 12: I've been writing for the last twenty five years into
Speaker 12: like one fifty one liner. He's amazing, He's great. And again,
Speaker 12: when the Left does this, they do themselves a terrible disservice.
Speaker 12: They look pathetic themselves. They make it so much easier
Speaker 12: for the right to say, well, you're all just a
Speaker 12: bunch of delusional numpties. They do absolutely nothing for the
Speaker 12: Palestinian people. I don't want to do anything for the
Speaker 12: Palestinian people because it's all about their moment of glory
Speaker 12: and their moment of martyrdom. So far as they would
Speaker 12: have thought about how is this actually going to improve things?
Speaker 12: If they actually got to a second step in thinking
Speaker 12: about it, which it's debatable whether or not they did,
Speaker 12: they still wouldn't have cared because it's about them, it's
Speaker 12: about them being heroic. Then they can tell their friends
Speaker 12: about what they did about it.
Speaker 1: Imagine spending four hundred dollars on a ticket to yell
Speaker 1: your pro Palestinians be kicked out immediately.
Speaker 12: Also, imagine what a low piece of scum you'd feel
Speaker 12: while you're just sitting there waiting, trying not to laugh
Speaker 12: at all.
Speaker 11: Those dirty Jewish jokes that he's telling, you know.
Speaker 12: Trying to sort of hoping that no one knows that
Speaker 12: you're secretly from extinction rebellion.
Speaker 11: You know, I hope he quiz guys, that's right? How
Speaker 11: much you have to hate yourself?
Speaker 3: What I love about this?
Speaker 1: I mean you just said a minute ago, you know
Speaker 1: that Chinese won there were no security escorting the officials
Speaker 1: who were standing in front of cheng Lei around from
Speaker 1: seat to seat.
Speaker 3: But here, well, the security did take out.
Speaker 1: Those pro Palestinians who were disrupting the show, and Jerry
Speaker 1: Seinford won't get out. It has better security and Jerry
Speaker 1: sign show than in Parliament.
Speaker 13: Jerry's got bigger gonads on him than our own prime minister, clearly,
Speaker 13: but Jerry's also used to this now, right, So something
Speaker 13: similar happened at a show in Virginia recently. We saw
Speaker 13: when he got up to give a speech at Duke University,
Speaker 13: which is where he hows from. The pro Palestinian protesters
Speaker 13: did this massive walkout, this big assembly, this was their statement,
Speaker 13: and he did similar then and just graciously thanked everyone
Speaker 13: who hadn't walked out. And this simply in the face
Speaker 13: of a single Jewish man who has.
Speaker 3: Absolutely nothing to do with what's going on with Israel
Speaker 3: right now, and the fact that he's got the guts and.
Speaker 13: To do so in such a satirical way to point
Speaker 13: out the idiocy of these people who now want to
Speaker 13: treat every Jewish person on the planet like they have
Speaker 13: a you know, a real say in what's going on,
Speaker 13: regardless of what people think exactly or how ill educated
Speaker 13: they are about the conflict that's happening over there right now.
Speaker 13: The idiocy of them to treat people like here in
Speaker 13: Australia Jewish people differently, as if they've got anything to
Speaker 13: do with it, as if they're on.
Speaker 3: The direct line to and make them look all for themselves.
Speaker 3: You know, I get this a lot.
Speaker 1: I will get on the phone, particularly with labor politicians,
Speaker 1: and they'll start, you know, having a go about what
Speaker 1: Benjamin Nettinya who's doing, and I'm like, hold on that's
Speaker 1: on the other side of the world. What worries me
Speaker 1: is how Jewish people are being treated here in Australia.
Speaker 1: You can have your views on Netanyaho, that's fine, but
Speaker 1: you can't have a different view on anti Semitism here
Speaker 1: in Australia.
Speaker 3: We all have to be against that.
Speaker 1: And just because someone is Jewish, that doesn't mean they
Speaker 1: deserve to be treated any differently.
Speaker 3: Before we go, Joe, I just want to ask you.
Speaker 1: About Kerry Anne Kenniley, the Nine television legend, has come
Speaker 1: out against her former employer. She told The Australian that
Speaker 1: recent allegations of inappropriate behavior by senior figures that the
Speaker 1: company had not surprised her.
Speaker 3: Here's what she had to say. She said, history has
Speaker 3: just repeated itself.
Speaker 1: I experienced the Nine culture professionally and personally over decades,
Speaker 1: and it has learned behavior it was entrenched by senior
Speaker 1: people before them.
Speaker 3: Joe, this is you know, it's been this has now
Speaker 3: been rolling for a few weeks.
Speaker 1: But this intervention by carry Anne Kennelly shows, if it's correct,
Speaker 1: which I assume it is, that it is a cultural
Speaker 1: problem at the network.
Speaker 12: What I found extraordinary about this and of course I
Speaker 12: know Cac well, I'll probably get a text message from
Speaker 12: her now any minute, but that you know, a lot
Speaker 12: of the behavior we've been hearing about at nine and
Speaker 12: the allegations as well, both known and unknown. You know,
Speaker 12: it has been happening in the third decade of the
Speaker 12: twenty first century. Just imagine what it was like when
Speaker 12: Kac was there. You're almost sort of.
Speaker 11: Shut her to think.
Speaker 12: And it also occurred to me Kak has been very
Speaker 12: unfairly sort of pilloried, like I suppose everyone in public life,
Speaker 12: but I thought it was particularly unkind. She was pillaried
Speaker 12: towards the sort of twilight of her career for some
Speaker 12: remarks she made on studio.
Speaker 1: It seems to be looking at vision and she's got
Speaker 1: pack now with Peter Costell, right, that's right.
Speaker 11: Goal and became and became this sort of public enemy.
Speaker 12: And I just wonder how many of those in the
Speaker 12: woke right on progressive sisterhood who attacked her will now
Speaker 12: actually show her some of the respect and appreciate what
Speaker 12: she has to say.
Speaker 1: All right, Choe Hitter brand listor I thank you both
Speaker 1: so much your time lives.
Speaker 3: We'll see it at ten o'clock tonight. Cheers.
Speaker 1: Now coming up, Well, we've been discussing about how Chinese
Speaker 1: officials body blocked the cameras from some but Daniel Andrews
Speaker 1: received a royal reception at Parliament during the state visit.
Speaker 1: Shadow Home Affairs Minister James Patterson will join me next,
Speaker 1: plus more in action from Victorian police who failed to
Speaker 1: reprimand protesters wearing terrorist symbols.
Speaker 3: Stay tuned, welcome back. Well.
Speaker 1: Given the way Anthony Alberizi is rolling out the red
Speaker 1: carpet for Chinese Premier League, it's easy to forget that
Speaker 1: China is the most aggressive threat to Australia in our region.
Speaker 1: It's the top perpetrator of militious cyber attacks, foreign espionage
Speaker 1: and electoral interference. In the Australian newspaper, Ben Packham reports
Speaker 1: today that under the Albanezy government.
Speaker 3: China has gone from wolf to panda.
Speaker 1: He says the soft deploymacy On show stands in contrast
Speaker 1: to the deep suspicion within the government, the national security
Speaker 1: establishment and the wider community about China and its long
Speaker 1: term threat to Australian interests. He needs to take care
Speaker 1: or he'll be viewed as a panda. Hugger at a
Speaker 1: time when Australians are alert and alarmed about the China challenge.
Speaker 1: Even senior Labour figure Bruce Hawker was concerned.
Speaker 15: Elopment in the room, still defense, Taiwan, a relationship with
Speaker 15: the United States, all these issues which are floating around
Speaker 15: at the military in defensuland they're not going to go
Speaker 15: away anywhere any soon.
Speaker 1: Those issues the elephant in the room, he says, and
Speaker 1: albanys he keeps trying to make this visit about pandas
Speaker 1: as in the zoo animal Seriously, he.
Speaker 7: Spoke about the Tasmanian devils as being cute animals. In Australia,
Speaker 7: they're probably not as cute as pandas. I repeat what
Speaker 7: I said in Shanghai when I was asked my government
Speaker 7: is pro pander. We like panda bears and so do
Speaker 7: I reckon Australians.
Speaker 1: The visit hasn't been all smooth sailing. We've seen protests
Speaker 1: erupt on Parliament lawn with reports of the CCP flag
Speaker 1: being burnt, and while Chang Lai was body blocked from
Speaker 1: a Victorian Premier Daniel Andrews received a royal reception on
Speaker 1: arrival at Parliament House. With officials even calling out to
Speaker 1: ask for his photograph. And it's no secret why during
Speaker 1: his time as Premier Daniel Andrews slug taxpayers more than
Speaker 1: half a million dollars for seven trips to China since
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, and that included an eighty two thousand dollars
Speaker 1: bill for his six day secret trade mission to China
Speaker 1: just last year. Let's bring in now Shadow Home Affairs
Speaker 1: Minister James Patterson. James, thank you very much for your
Speaker 1: time this evening. Look, let's start with that outrageous body
Speaker 1: blocking of cheng Lai and Albanize's response to it today
Speaker 1: as well, where he said he wasn't aware of it.
Speaker 3: Do you think his response is good enough? And what
Speaker 3: do you think of the fact that Chinese.
Speaker 1: Officials felt emboldened to act like that in Australia at
Speaker 1: Parliament House.
Speaker 10: I don't believe the Prime Minister unless every one of
Speaker 10: his eleven media advisors are guilty of the most serious
Speaker 10: professional malpractice of allowing the Prime Minister to go and
Speaker 10: face a press gallery press pack including Chang Lay and
Speaker 10: didn't bother to tell him about the serious incident involving
Speaker 10: Chang Lay only an hour earlier in Parliament House upstairs.
Speaker 10: It's simply not a credible explanation. Frankly, I'm worried that
Speaker 10: the Chinese delegation will be laughing tonight because not only
Speaker 10: did they get away with it, but they didn't even
Speaker 10: cop the mildest rhetorical rebuke from the Prime Minister of
Speaker 10: Australia after they engaged in body blocking and intimidation of
Speaker 10: an Australian journalist, and one in no small point, had
Speaker 10: recently just spent several years in incarceration unjustly in China.
Speaker 10: This really is a very disappointing episode. The Prime Minister
Speaker 10: has one last opportunity to clear this up tomorrow. He
Speaker 10: should seek an explanation from the Premiere for the behavior
Speaker 10: of his delegation and an apology, and he should front
Speaker 10: up the press tomorrow and answer questions about it.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: I think no one would disagree when it comes to
Speaker 1: the importance of stabilizing the relationship, getting rid of all
Speaker 1: the tariffs that have been really hurting Australian businesses and expots.
Speaker 1: But when it comes to how this has happened, has
Speaker 1: it been because of our silence? Has it cost us
Speaker 1: standing up for our sovereignty. Do you believe that there
Speaker 1: are areas where the Albanesi government is now failing to
Speaker 1: speak out on just to appease Beijing.
Speaker 10: The tragedy of this shari is that the Chinese government
Speaker 10: is unwinding the economic coercion campaign they launched against Australia
Speaker 10: because it failed, and they were always going to unwind
Speaker 10: against Australia because it had done them great damage in
Speaker 10: the region and around the world. We didn't suffer the
Speaker 10: economic hit that they thought we would. We stood up
Speaker 10: behind our public policy settings, and other countries who are
Speaker 10: watching didn't take the message China hope they would, which
Speaker 10: is never take on China. They took the opposite message,
Speaker 10: never to be dependent on China. And so the change
Speaker 10: of government was just a plausible off ramp for the
Speaker 10: Chinese government and face saving way of unwinding these things.
Speaker 10: And actually it didn't require any concessions from Australia, but
Speaker 10: I think they have been concessions, and particularly that been rhetorical.
Speaker 10: This government has virtually ceased all public criticism of China's
Speaker 10: serious domestic human rights abuses, all public criticism of their
Speaker 10: maligned conduct in the South China Sea, and all public
Speaker 10: criticism of their foreign interference, espionage and cyber attacks on
Speaker 10: our country, which are occurring on a daily basis.
Speaker 1: Well, you say it's mostly rhetorical, but as you recall,
Speaker 1: one of the items on China's list of fourteen demands
Speaker 1: to Australia was that ASBI, a pro American think tank,
Speaker 1: be shut down. There is now a review into think
Speaker 1: tanks which covers ASBI, and there are concerns that it
Speaker 1: might be defunded or have its funding reduced.
Speaker 10: Sure, I can share your concerns and the concerns of
Speaker 10: others about this, and I made a submission to the
Speaker 10: Varghezy review. ASPA is Australia's most globally influential and respected
Speaker 10: think tank. It has had impact far outsize its funding
Speaker 10: and position in the scheme of things. It's been remarkably
Speaker 10: success and particularly the work done over the last decade
Speaker 10: on things like the abuse of wigas in Hinjang on
Speaker 10: Chinese military universities and the way they're taking advantage of
Speaker 10: our universities really has changed public policy, not just in
Speaker 10: this country but around the world. It will be a
Speaker 10: grave mistake for the Albanese government to give in to
Speaker 10: China's pressure and to wind back even one dollar of
Speaker 10: our spues funding and I'll be watching very closely.
Speaker 1: Look, if you were in government and you are shadow
Speaker 1: Home Affairs Minister, how do you think you would handle
Speaker 1: the China challenge? How would you handle standing up for
Speaker 1: our sovereignty while still having a relationship with our largest
Speaker 1: trading partner.
Speaker 10: We at a macro level, we will always stand up
Speaker 10: for Australia and we'll always put Australia and its national
Speaker 10: interests first. We will never compromise our national security in
Speaker 10: the pursuit of bilateral relations because we believe we view
Speaker 10: bilateral relations as a means to an end, not in
Speaker 10: an end in itself. It's about securing our national interest
Speaker 10: and in my own portfolio, will complete the agenda on
Speaker 10: foreign interference and espionage by bolstering the cyber vulnerabilities that
Speaker 10: we now face in that realm. This government has done
Speaker 10: nothing to combat the very serious foreign interference risk that
Speaker 10: cyber enabled through platforms like TikTok and we chat, and
Speaker 10: it's crying out for action because our elections could very
Speaker 10: easily be interfered with, and our public discourse right now
Speaker 10: is being interfered with and that's not good enough.
Speaker 3: You mentioned TikTok.
Speaker 1: That's yet another area where the US and the UK,
Speaker 1: our like minded allies, are taking action, but Albanezi doesn't
Speaker 1: want to know about. He doesn't want to even be
Speaker 1: asked questions by journalists at press conferences, as we saw
Speaker 1: on Thursday where he shut down a question.
Speaker 3: James Patterson, thank you very much for joining us this evening.
Speaker 1: Now, pro Palestinian activists are openly displaying symbols of terrorism
Speaker 1: of Hamas and Hezbla on the streets in Victoria as
Speaker 1: they rally against Israel, in photos obtained by Alexei Dimitriardi.
Speaker 1: At the Australian activists over the weeks have been seen
Speaker 1: wearing hamasa's distinctive emblem on their clothing. One of them
Speaker 1: is this well known protester, Mohammed Sharab, who stood just
Speaker 1: meters from police.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 1: He is a regular speaker at these rallies in Melbourne, CBD,
Speaker 1: and it's alleged that he's one of four people who
Speaker 1: kidnapped and violently assaulted a thirty one year old Melbourne
Speaker 1: man in February. That story we have been covering on
Speaker 1: this show. Now, these terrorist emblems that are being worn
Speaker 1: were outlawed in the Criminal Code in January, and yet
Speaker 1: nothing is being done to enforce criminal penalties. Police and
Speaker 1: government simply turning a blind eye. Let's bring in now
Speaker 1: the Executive Council of Australian Jury co CEO Alex Rifchin.
Speaker 3: Alex, good to see you again. What do you think
Speaker 3: about this inaction to actually enforce new laws by our
Speaker 3: authorities and how is it actually emboldening extremists.
Speaker 11: I think it's shameful show.
Speaker 18: I mean, we are a nation of laws and as
Speaker 18: you rightly pointed out, Hamas and Hezbelah were prescribed in
Speaker 18: full as terrorist organizations in this country. It is unlawful,
Speaker 18: it is contrary to our criminal provisions to show public
Speaker 18: support for these organizations. And there's a very good reason
Speaker 18: why we have these laws because by brandishing their slogans
Speaker 18: and their paraphernalia in public, it glamorizes them, it normalizes them,
Speaker 18: it encourages people to join these organizations and perhaps take
Speaker 18: up their violent extremist terrorist ideologies. So we need to
Speaker 18: see enforcement of laws and we've had for the past
Speaker 18: eight months. The laws, the legal tools there to prosecute people.
Speaker 18: It's simply a lack of political will to do so.
Speaker 18: And it's endangering our community, and it's endangering our society.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is absolutely part of the problem. When
Speaker 1: laws aren't inforced, it just encourages the behavior.
Speaker 3: No one gets the message that it's just not on. Now,
Speaker 3: I want to.
Speaker 1: Turn to how Iran has in recent weeks welcomed the
Speaker 1: university activists on campus globally or The Australian's columnist Chris
Speaker 1: Mitchell writes today that it's the media who continue to
Speaker 1: swallow Hermasa's lies. He says, and I'm quoting here much
Speaker 1: of the media, many university leaders, student protesters, and some
Speaker 1: of our politicians need to be held accountable for allowing
Speaker 1: themselves to be used in an Iranian sponsored propaganda war
Speaker 1: designed to entrench Islamic fundamentalism. Alex, what do you think
Speaker 1: about the ignorance of this group, from students to politicians
Speaker 1: to journalists.
Speaker 18: Well, I agree with those sentiments entirely. I mean, the media,
Speaker 18: particularly in this country or sections of it, have a
Speaker 18: great deal to answer for. From the very beginning of
Speaker 18: this war. They have quoted uncritically Humas propaganda as their
Speaker 18: statistics for casualties in Gaza. They have launded what is
Speaker 18: effectively a band of rapists and murderers and thugs into resistors.
Speaker 18: They call people who relentlessly docs and harass and intimidate
Speaker 18: Jewish Australians as peace activists. You have a situation where
Speaker 18: it's becoming more and more normal to describe Israel, which
Speaker 18: is only democracy in the least, as an apartheid state,
Speaker 18: to describe their just war against a terrorist organization as
Speaker 18: a genocide, and there has to be reckoning. We are
Speaker 18: seeing a situation where this information is being spread at
Speaker 18: levels that we've not seen before, and it's leading to
Speaker 18: a fracturing of our social cohesion, threats and intimidation of
Speaker 18: our community. And this really has to stop.
Speaker 3: I mean, we talk and you just refer to it.
Speaker 1: They you know this this moral confusion or how everything
Speaker 1: seems to be turned upside down at the moment when
Speaker 1: it comes to the moral compass, particularly among the left.
Speaker 1: Well a Nobel Prize winner hert and Marla, has written
Speaker 1: about this brilliantly, and she says that she's a polled
Speaker 1: that young people students in the West are so confused
Speaker 1: that they are no longer aware of their freedom that
Speaker 1: they have apparently lost the ability to distinguish between democracy
Speaker 1: and dictatorship. I mean, don't you think we are seeing
Speaker 1: that across the board now? And just last week when
Speaker 1: Israel bravely rescued the four hostages. You know, people couldn't
Speaker 1: come out like Penny One, couldn't come out and openly celebrate.
Speaker 3: That for the good news that it is.
Speaker 18: I think in some ways I would actually disagree with
Speaker 18: the quote that you read. I think the sentiment of
Speaker 18: it is entirely correct, but I think that people actually
Speaker 18: can tell the difference quite clearly between right and wrong,
Speaker 18: between a terrorist organization and a free state. What really
Speaker 18: disturbs me, what really concerns me for our society and
Speaker 18: for the future of this country, is the fact that
Speaker 18: it is so glaringly obvious what each side in the
Speaker 18: conflict stands for, what they represent, and yet a great
Speaker 18: number of people, particularly young people, are choosing the side
Speaker 18: of the evil. They are looking at the same image
Speaker 18: as show that you and I saw. They saw Noah Agamani,
Speaker 18: one of the rescued hostages, being dragged away from a
Speaker 18: dance party on the back of a motorcycle to a
Speaker 18: depraved captivity by a terrorist organization, and there are people
Speaker 18: among us who look at that same image and feel
Speaker 18: greater sympathy for the terrorist men than for the young
Speaker 18: woman being abducted in the most horrific circumstances imaginable. And
Speaker 18: it's that inability to actually sympathize with Israel merely because
Speaker 18: it is a Jewish homeland and represents Western values and
Speaker 18: democracy and freedom and liberalism, and the preference for a
Speaker 18: terrorist organization siding with the Ayatolas and increasingly with neo
Speaker 18: Nazis that have flooded to the Propostitian cause. Yeah, this
Speaker 18: really troubles me about the future of our society.
Speaker 3: I completely agree, Alex Rifchin. Thank you very much for
Speaker 3: your time.
Speaker 11: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Coming up the new polls that show alban Easy is
Speaker 1: on the nose with voters, but is it enough for Peter.
Speaker 3: Dutton to win the next election. I'll discuss this with
Speaker 3: my political panel after the break.
Speaker 1: Will Two new polls show that Australians are losing trust
Speaker 1: in the Albanesi government.
Speaker 3: Resolve Political Monitor shows that.
Speaker 1: Labour's primary has fallen to twenty eight percent, while the
Speaker 1: coalitions is sitting at thirty six.
Speaker 3: The Herald reports at Labour's.
Speaker 1: Primary is now at the lowest level since resolved polling
Speaker 1: began three years ago. It's also the first time Dutton
Speaker 1: has eclipsed Albanesi, only just in the poll as preferred
Speaker 1: PM and freshwater strategies. Research shows Albanzi has lost significant
Speaker 1: ground to Peter Dutton, just two percentage points ahead now
Speaker 1: as preferred PM, and for the first time receiving a
Speaker 1: lower approval rating than the opposition leader. Joining me now
Speaker 1: former Labor Minister Graham Richardson and Scott Morrison's former Press
Speaker 1: secretary Andrew Caswell.
Speaker 3: Rich So, Andrew, good to see you.
Speaker 1: Both now, Richo, a primary of twenty eight percent for labor,
Speaker 1: if you believe these figures, if they've got them right,
Speaker 1: twenty eight percent is brutal for labor. Should your mate
Speaker 1: Albo be worried by these poles?
Speaker 8: I think anybody he doesn't worry about a twenty eight
Speaker 8: percent pole has got to be kidding himself. It is
Speaker 8: a very poor result and it causes I think concern
Speaker 8: for every labor supporter in the country.
Speaker 1: I mean, the primary that labor got at the last
Speaker 1: election was thirty three percent already that was historic lows,
Speaker 1: but since then Albin Easy. I mean, he had a
Speaker 1: long honeymoon, but now the cost of living crisis, so
Speaker 1: many other scandals, the detainees who've been released and are
Speaker 1: causing havoc. I mean, all of this is now denting
Speaker 1: the view, the perception in voters' minds about the prime
Speaker 1: minister's competence. I mean, Andrew, do you think though, that
Speaker 1: Dutton is surging ahead in to win the election?
Speaker 11: Will Sharry? It's an awfully hard road ahead for the coalition.
Speaker 17: The numbers are astronomical, but they are on the right
Speaker 17: track and Peter Dutton is putting every foot forward to
Speaker 17: put himself in that position, and he's becoming a credible
Speaker 17: alternative to the prime ministership, or as you said before,
Speaker 17: he is the preferred prime minister at this point in time,
Speaker 17: which is remarkable. And it's remarkable considering that the Labor
Speaker 17: parties have spent the last two years saying that this
Speaker 17: bloke is unelectable, that he's unlikable, and they've convinced themselves
Speaker 17: of this narrative that no matter what happens in their
Speaker 17: own government or the scandals, the negativity, the stumbles that
Speaker 17: they have in the back of their minds, they're thinking,
Speaker 17: but at least we're not Peter Duarton. At least, you know,
Speaker 17: we're electable and he's not electable. And they've convinced themselves
Speaker 17: of this narrative. The Australian people are seeing another side
Speaker 17: to this because Peter Dutton is speaking sense to situations
Speaker 17: where people are being frustrated cost of living, energy prices, immigration, crime.
Speaker 17: He's speaking sense in all those areas and the Labor
Speaker 17: Party have vacated the field on these issues.
Speaker 1: I mean Labor Party thought Tony Abbott was unelectable. They
Speaker 1: thought Scott Morrison was unelectable. In twenty nineteen, they thought
Speaker 1: Darton was unelectable.
Speaker 3: Richo, what do you think?
Speaker 1: Do you think voters are starting to have a second
Speaker 1: look at Peter Darton and thinking, oh, maybe he is
Speaker 1: Prime ministerial material.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I think there's some truth in that. I think
Speaker 8: Dutton's been doing very well. He's certainly picking the right
Speaker 8: issues to speak on and I think he's just you know,
Speaker 8: burrowing away underneath the government and I think undermining them.
Speaker 8: I think he's doing pretty well now.
Speaker 1: Leading economists are predicting that we're not going to have
Speaker 1: a rate cut until next year, and some economists like
Speaker 1: Warren Hogan say there could even be not just one,
Speaker 1: but two rate rises this year.
Speaker 12: Have a look, why are you so insistent the Reserve
Speaker 12: Bank should raise rates once or twice more.
Speaker 11: Yeah, it's not that I'm insistent.
Speaker 19: I just think that's where we'll end up. I don't
Speaker 19: want to say a rate hike any more than the
Speaker 19: next person. But the inflation we've got in our economy
Speaker 19: is not going to go away on its own. The
Speaker 19: level of the cash rate of four point three five
Speaker 19: does not appear to be high enough to get it
Speaker 19: back down to target.
Speaker 1: I mean, Richo, the prospect of another rate rise, maybe
Speaker 1: even two, is brutal for families already really struggling.
Speaker 8: Oh yeah, that's a political disaster if that happens, you know.
Speaker 8: I mean not every economist agrees. You never get economists
Speaker 8: degree in anything, but this is a pretty serious issue
Speaker 8: for labor and not something that they can dismiss. I mean,
Speaker 8: the more they see of Dunton, people like him, and
Speaker 8: I think labor expected the opposite to happen well, and
Speaker 8: so labor are going to have to be very careful
Speaker 8: over the coming months, because you know Dutton's he just
Speaker 8: keeps going Dutton, you can't stop it. And I think
Speaker 8: he's doing particularly well and I think he's doing much
Speaker 8: better than anyone in the Labor Party thought possible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Andrew, I mean this is another reason why Labor
Speaker 1: will be unlikely to go to the polls this year
Speaker 1: if rates go up and if the cost of living
Speaker 1: crisis gets worse than it is now. And you know,
Speaker 1: I mean Labour says it stands for vulnerable Australians and
Speaker 1: families are doing it tough.
Speaker 17: They are doing it tough, shariot, and I think they've
Speaker 17: moved from frustration to anger now because there isn't being
Speaker 17: isn't enough being done to address that cost of living pressure.
Speaker 17: Now the government have set themselves up here in a
Speaker 17: very awkward manner, progressing to a potential.
Speaker 11: Election last year, sorry latter this year.
Speaker 17: They have made the gamble and the budget that in
Speaker 17: flo will track down lower and therefore there will be
Speaker 17: scope for the RBA to move on interest rates. That
Speaker 17: is no guarantee, And every day it has passed us
Speaker 17: a budget is looking like the other way, so the
Speaker 17: more likely now we're looking at a May election. It
Speaker 17: is an awful began to be considering December, when cost
Speaker 17: of living will only increase and there will be no
Speaker 17: prospect of a rate decrease.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you'd want to hope for the sake of
Speaker 1: families out there that labor has got the cost of
Speaker 1: living under control by early next year at the very latest. Now,
Speaker 1: just quick last topic before you go, Rich, I've been
Speaker 1: speaking on the show tonight about Australian journalist Chang Lai
Speaker 1: and the bullying tactics that Chinese officials showed towards her today.
Speaker 1: What do you think about alban Easy failing to properly
Speaker 1: condemn this today.
Speaker 8: I think he could have said more and I think
Speaker 8: he should have. This is a serious you and I
Speaker 8: think you know, China is the sort of great big
Speaker 8: bully in the in the area, and unfortunately, because they're
Speaker 8: a biggest trading partner, I think sometimes we're reluctant to
Speaker 8: stand up and go as hard as we should and
Speaker 8: in the case of in this case, we must go
Speaker 8: harder because I think this it's fundamental to what a
Speaker 8: democracy like Australia stands for.
Speaker 13: Mm.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, said Andrew. I mean the government you worked for.
Speaker 1: You were Press secretary to Scott Morrison, where you went
Speaker 1: very hard on China. Some would say too hard. You know,
Speaker 1: what do you think about the current government's approach.
Speaker 17: Well, I'll give them a tick for the economic side
Speaker 17: of it, that there is a huge advantage for the
Speaker 17: normalization of this relationship. But let's not fool ourselves here.
Speaker 17: This is on the outside. This is a different China
Speaker 17: to the one that Morrison faced. There's not Yes, there's
Speaker 17: no longer that the the bullied boy pulpit. There's no
Speaker 17: longer the wolf warrior diplomacy that we're seeing. But we're
Speaker 17: still seeing belligerent acts from a belligerent from a belligerent
Speaker 17: communist government. We're seeing acts against our navy, we're seeing
Speaker 17: cyber warfare, and we're seeing what we saw today with
Speaker 17: Chang Lai. We're seeing a different China, but completely completely
Speaker 17: different to the one that we had to do with
Speaker 17: in our government.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, all right, rich O Andrew Carswell, thank you
Speaker 1: both very much. Now after the break, how Barack Obama
Speaker 1: stepped in to save a confused Joe Biden. Plus could
Speaker 1: author JD. Vance be Trump's running mate? The full details
Speaker 1: with Koshergata Next, Welcome back. Well, Donald Trump has revealed
Speaker 1: he's got a pretty good idea of who he choose
Speaker 1: as his running mate, and their speculation it could be
Speaker 1: Ohio Senator JD.
Speaker 3: Vance.
Speaker 1: You might remember that he rose to fame as the
Speaker 1: author of He'll Billy Elegy. Sky News contributor Koshagada joins me, now, Kosher,
Speaker 1: good to see you look inside to say that JD
Speaker 1: Vance could be the key to flipping working class Democrat
Speaker 1: voters in battleground states. Do you think JD would be
Speaker 1: a good choice or I mean there are other political
Speaker 1: strategists who say Trump should be choosing a woman.
Speaker 16: I think JD is a little bit of a double
Speaker 16: edged sword because he absolutely his appeal would be to
Speaker 16: that rust belt, those battleground states and the disaffected Democrat
Speaker 16: voters as well as Republican voters. I remember these estates
Speaker 16: are Trump won in twenty sixteen all by himself. So
Speaker 16: there is an argument to be me that he doesn't
Speaker 16: need somebody to shore up that because his constituency really
Speaker 16: naturally resonates with those folks. But then he lost them
Speaker 16: in twenty twenty, and so that's really what the selection
Speaker 16: is going to turn. On the flip side. When I
Speaker 16: say it's a double ed sword, is the JD Vance
Speaker 16: is a Senator from Ohio, just into his first term
Speaker 16: over there, and the senator right now in a fifty
Speaker 16: to fifty tie and effectively a Democrat majority with the
Speaker 16: tiebreaker vote from the Vice president. So many people are
Speaker 16: concerned that if he were to run, he would have
Speaker 16: to abdicate his Senate seat. And winning the Senate is
Speaker 16: almost as important as winning the White House for Republicans,
Speaker 16: if not more, And so that's going to be part
Speaker 16: of the calculus as well. I'm sure that the Trump
Speaker 16: team is considering.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, Joe Biden was caught in a daze or he
Speaker 1: seemed to be in a daze at an LA fundraiser
Speaker 1: and it seemed that former President Barack Obama stepped in
Speaker 1: to save him.
Speaker 3: Let's have a look.
Speaker 1: I mean, he was just standing there, not moving. There's
Speaker 1: so many moments like this. It's kind of hard for
Speaker 1: voters to ignore.
Speaker 3: Isn't it.
Speaker 16: Undeniably impossible to ignore? I would say, you have this,
Speaker 16: you have just what happened at the G seven summit
Speaker 16: last week, where Georgia Maloney had to sort of, you know,
Speaker 16: bring him back to attention. And you keep seeing is
Speaker 16: and we'll probably see only more of them, you know,
Speaker 16: in the few short months ahead before November fifth. There's
Speaker 16: another point too in this, because there was a fundraiser
Speaker 16: that David Sachs, famous venture capitalist in Silicon Valley, held
Speaker 16: for Trump just a few days before this one, and
Speaker 16: I think he put out a tweet that said, at
Speaker 16: a Trump fundraiser, trump is a draw card, and at
Speaker 16: a Biden fundraiser, everybody else is the draw card. Because
Speaker 16: they had Obama there, and they had Julia Roberts and
Speaker 16: George Clooney and Jimmy Kimmel. And I think that's really
Speaker 16: the perfect encapsulation of I think the two campaigns writ large,
Speaker 16: where you really see that one the draw, whether you
Speaker 16: love him or hate him, is the candidate himself and
Speaker 16: Trump and over here, just moments like these show that
Speaker 16: it really feels like he's sort of propped up by
Speaker 16: the apparatus ante.
Speaker 1: This is all indeed, all right, Koshagada, that's all we've
Speaker 1: got time for. I'll see you tomorrow at eight. Here's
Speaker 1: poor Murray