Speaker 1: I'll get at like com fro another in storming the show,
Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook over there at Bloody typ Central High
Speaker 1: Cook High, Harps, how.
Speaker 2: Are you very good? Very good?
Speaker 3: Thanks?
Speaker 1: What's bloody going on? It's maybe two weeks post India?
Speaker 1: Have you still got the aura? Have you still got
Speaker 1: the vibe? Are you still? Are you still at one
Speaker 1: with all things?
Speaker 2: I definitely do. But I wouldn't mind sitting on that
Speaker 2: mountain again. I would like to be up there, you know,
Speaker 2: just every few days, just a morning on the mountain.
Speaker 1: Well, the closest thing that I know personally to an
Speaker 1: enlightened being has joined us on the show.
Speaker 3: So if you want to get a little bit of
Speaker 3: your zen and a little bit.
Speaker 1: Of your calm back. In fact, I didn't think of
Speaker 1: this till right now, but Nicki Morrison.
Speaker 4: High, Hey, how's it going?
Speaker 3: Oh good, really good? Thank you. I didn't tell you.
Speaker 1: I didn't tell you this, But if you tell Nikki forgive.
Speaker 3: I know our listeners no, but.
Speaker 1: Yes, so give her the snapshot of what happened while
Speaker 1: you were there on real.
Speaker 2: Oh so I went on a seven day retreat in
Speaker 2: the Himalayas. Oh yeah, Oh it was amazing. My friend
Speaker 2: Jim Fuller, he runs the retreat, he did some facilitated stuff.
Speaker 2: The first two knights were at a temple nestled at
Speaker 2: the bottom of the Himalayas in a village called Nagga
Speaker 2: run by the religious family. And then Papu, who is
Speaker 2: the son of Fama who runs the temple, he led
Speaker 2: our tour. We did some facilitated stuff. It was it
Speaker 2: moved me. It was amazing sitting above the clouds for
Speaker 2: seven days and at them.
Speaker 4: Like during the retreat, with the periods where you had
Speaker 4: to be silent or was there it was just time
Speaker 4: out from your normal life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So day four that all of our hiking was
Speaker 2: in silence. So that was a really really spiritual and
Speaker 2: deep day. And then we at the probably the midpoint
Speaker 2: of that day, we did a ritual, a letting go
Speaker 2: ritual where we burned the things that we didn't that
Speaker 2: we wanted to leave on the mountain and it was
Speaker 2: There were tears and a couple of other things happened
Speaker 2: up there, but it.
Speaker 4: Was a powerful action.
Speaker 2: It's powerful. Nick changed me. Like the things I burned
Speaker 2: I carried around for forty years didn't come home.
Speaker 4: But when you go with that intention of I'm here,
Speaker 4: I'm icknowledged, acknowledging them, and now I'm ready to release them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. And I didn't expect that.
Speaker 2: It was in the moment that right before Papu lit
Speaker 2: the match and I and I put the paper onto it.
Speaker 2: In that moment, I just closed my eyes and I
Speaker 2: expressed gratitude for whatever the reason that i'd held that,
Speaker 2: for whatever purpose it served, and I just felt like
Speaker 2: that was a you know, those things that happen and you,
Speaker 2: not from you kind of thing. I was like, oh,
Speaker 2: that was interesting. I didn't plan to do that.
Speaker 4: And I think so often what comes out of us
Speaker 4: is what needs to come out of us. When we're
Speaker 4: just open and in a space where there is a
Speaker 4: chance to be quiet and still and out of our
Speaker 4: normal daily life, then those things had the chance to surface. Amazing,
Speaker 4: Well done, Thank you, thank you beautiful.
Speaker 3: You are quite different.
Speaker 1: I like, well, not I like that because you're different,
Speaker 1: but I like it for you because it seems. Spirituality
Speaker 1: is an interesting construct or an interesting thing. Sorry I
Speaker 1: should sound less like a scientist, but it's an interesting
Speaker 1: thing because it's a really slippery thing. It's like it's
Speaker 1: trying to define spirituality in a meaningful way that doesn't
Speaker 1: sound cheesy or bullshitty. It's pretty hard, yes, but it's
Speaker 1: like there's something about your energy that's quite different. And
Speaker 1: it's not that it's not that you've had to shift
Speaker 1: in attitude, although that may have happened as well. But
Speaker 1: you know, when you see someone and there's something's changed
Speaker 1: about their mind so they're thinking a bit differently. It's
Speaker 1: very cognitive, it's very cerebral, and you know, but then
Speaker 1: there's sometimes something else happens and it's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and like, I'm not pissing in your pocket. I don't
Speaker 1: think you're the dell Alama. I think you've got a
Speaker 1: way to go, as do we all as do we,
Speaker 1: But it's like for you, there is you know, there
Speaker 1: is something that's quite different about your energy and about
Speaker 1: you know, being around you. Not that I've been around
Speaker 1: you much, but you know what I mean, it's yes,
Speaker 1: so it's good, it's good. I mean, well done. What
Speaker 1: do you moving forward? Do you intend to have? This
Speaker 1: is weird too, but a spiritual practice or what's that
Speaker 1: look like?
Speaker 2: Ah, even as you described that whole not being able
Speaker 2: to put words to things I agree with that. I
Speaker 2: find it hard. I feel different doing different, and I
Speaker 2: can't really wrap words around what that is, means or
Speaker 2: looks like. So I'm saying with this question, yes, but
Speaker 2: it's this process of letting it unfold and being aware
Speaker 2: and knowing, Like I think letting go is a big
Speaker 2: part of like surrender. I have this thing about surrendering,
Speaker 2: and I feel that that's a big thing that happened.
Speaker 2: I've tried to let go, like I've tried really hard.
Speaker 4: To let go, damn it.
Speaker 3: For a long time.
Speaker 2: I've been aware of that as being an issue holding
Speaker 2: onto stuff, and I really feel like that started to
Speaker 2: be a process that's happened. So it's sitting in the
Speaker 2: middle of it, going how much perspective can I keep
Speaker 2: as I now move forward and stay here and move
Speaker 2: forward and don't go back, but don't try too hard,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, I don't know what it's going
Speaker 2: to look like.
Speaker 4: Ups And if it sounded like you to we went
Speaker 4: on the retreat with an intention, whether you were conscious
Speaker 4: of it or not, and because you had an intention
Speaker 4: and you were open, whatever the process was, it sounds
Speaker 4: like to me there's been a shift on a deep
Speaker 4: level within you that might not come to light until
Speaker 4: later on down the track that that shift has happened,
Speaker 4: and it's it's irreversible because you were you were present
Speaker 4: to it and you were open to it and accepting
Speaker 4: on it.
Speaker 2: And it's that that like coming back and going did
Speaker 2: I do that?
Speaker 4: Yeah? Totally, I do it?
Speaker 2: Does it like what do I do with this understanding now?
Speaker 2: And I don't incorporate it or not? Maybe more to
Speaker 2: the point.
Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. And I think sometimes we don't have to
Speaker 4: overthink it. We can just for me sometimes I'm like, Nikki,
Speaker 4: get out of your head and just just be open
Speaker 4: to it. Just say for me, I'm open to whatever
Speaker 4: you have to teach me, whether it's now or down
Speaker 4: the track. But I thank you for the the grace
Speaker 4: to stay open.
Speaker 1: M I think that's the trick Nick and Ti if
Speaker 1: I think part of it is is to get your
Speaker 1: mind out of the way. Is like I think your mind,
Speaker 1: you know, like the mind is a two edged sword,
Speaker 1: you know, because it can be it can solve all
Speaker 1: these problems, and it can create all these problems out
Speaker 1: of thin air. And so like trying to manage your
Speaker 1: mind and trying to understand your mind. But I think,
Speaker 1: I think one of the things for us when you
Speaker 1: know and people grow No, I grew up in a
Speaker 1: really religious and then less religious and more spiritual kind
Speaker 1: of for a while and quite a while, and it's like,
Speaker 1: there's so much stuff that doesn't make sense in inverted
Speaker 1: commas logically right. And because it doesn't, because we can't
Speaker 1: put it in a box or measure it or poke
Speaker 1: it or feel it or touch it or quantify it,
Speaker 1: we go, oh, that must be bullshit, which is a
Speaker 1: really arrogant thing to think, because what we're saying is, well,
Speaker 1: if I don't understand it, then must be bullshit, because
Speaker 1: I'm a genius, you know, whereas the truth is of
Speaker 1: all there is to know, Like we don't know what
Speaker 1: we don't know, and you know, it's just like being
Speaker 1: I think, not being gullible or vulnerable in a bad way,
Speaker 1: but being open in a curious way.
Speaker 2: Yesterday when I was talking to Bobby, and the first
Speaker 2: thing I said to him was this reference. And I
Speaker 2: say it often about time feels warped to me, and
Speaker 2: I've always said since COVID, And remember perhaps the other
Speaker 2: day I said to you about the last four years,
Speaker 2: which show that just dawned on me. Now, so it
Speaker 2: is a thing that time was warped to me and
Speaker 2: it goes so fast. But then I realized that when
Speaker 2: I came back, I wanted to stop all this rushing.
Speaker 2: I've listened to an audiobook on one point one. I
Speaker 2: haven't listened to anything audio at under one point five
Speaker 2: speed before, or I have walked at normal walking pace
Speaker 2: without rushing. Like I'm doing everything without rushing, and I'll
Speaker 2: be interested to see what my relationship with time starts
Speaker 2: to look and feel like over time. Now I'm not rushing.
Speaker 1: Wow, like we're rushing to nowhere in particular, that's the
Speaker 1: right we're.
Speaker 4: You know, trying to live life before before we get
Speaker 4: their sort of thing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and in the process not living at all.
Speaker 4: Exactly because we're so focused on where we've got to
Speaker 4: get to. And it's like, no, hang on, this is life. This,
Speaker 4: these are the moments of life. And more and more
Speaker 4: I'm conscious of that, you know, often walking around or
Speaker 4: whatever and rushing around and it's like no, Nikki, don't
Speaker 4: just look at the flower. Actually stop and smart because
Speaker 4: in my head it's like, oh, I'll do that another day.
Speaker 4: It's like, no, you ain't so poor. Now be in
Speaker 4: this moment. Now open your eyes to what's in front
Speaker 4: of you.
Speaker 1: Right now, Nicky, can I just ask you to give
Speaker 1: us a little bit of a snapshot because some people
Speaker 1: will be meeting you for the first time, So correct
Speaker 1: what I fuck up, and add whatever you want and
Speaker 1: subtract whatever you want. But among other things, of course,
Speaker 1: you and I went to university one hundred years ago,
Speaker 1: and you did exercise science and you were a year
Speaker 1: or ahead of me, believe it or not, but she's
Speaker 1: younger than me, much younger than me, because I started
Speaker 1: when I was one hundred and four, and then you did.
Speaker 1: Then you did an honors degree. I think you got
Speaker 1: offered a PhD scholarship because you're a smarty pants, which
Speaker 1: you ended up not doing. Then you did nursing, so
Speaker 1: you've got multiple degrees. And then you obviously you've worked
Speaker 1: as a nurse for quite a long time, but now
Speaker 1: you are working more in the space of pastoral care.
Speaker 4: That's right.
Speaker 3: I'm still in a hospital setting.
Speaker 1: And also you are a death dueler, so you work
Speaker 1: with a lot of people who are somewhere between pretty sick.
Speaker 3: To very very sick.
Speaker 1: Too at the end of their life and even being
Speaker 1: with people as their life is ending. Tell me how
Speaker 1: that works for one of a better term with your
Speaker 1: spiritual philosophy and journey, Like, how do it?
Speaker 3: Because like is it tricky?
Speaker 1: Because you can't impose your values or thinking on people,
Speaker 1: not at all? So how do you navigate that space
Speaker 1: where you're with someone who's literally got hours to live
Speaker 1: or days to live and you're just being with them?
Speaker 4: I think, for me, when I'm in those situations, it's
Speaker 4: incredibly important that I'm grounded and mindful of the situation
Speaker 4: and also the fact that it's not about me. This
Speaker 4: is about me what can I bring to this situation?
Speaker 4: So take my personality out of it and almost sort
Speaker 4: of step into how can I be of use in
Speaker 4: this situation? And for whatever anyone believes in, but for me,
Speaker 4: I sort of I believe in a universal energy and spirit,
Speaker 4: And so in those moments, I sort of offer out
Speaker 4: a prayer and say, use me as your hands and
Speaker 4: your feet be my voice for me. Whatever you need,
Speaker 4: show me how to do it for you, what you
Speaker 4: need for this person in this moment. I don't quite
Speaker 4: know how oft to put it, But it's being very
Speaker 4: conscious of the fact that it's not about me, that
Speaker 4: it's about being mindful and respectful and also being prepared
Speaker 4: for anything, because in those sorts of situations, you open
Speaker 4: the door and you step in, and you don't necessarily
Speaker 4: know what you're stepping into. If you're stepping into, you know,
Speaker 4: family situation with their loved one, or if there's adversity
Speaker 4: in that situation, if there's harmony, you just don't know.
Speaker 4: And so it's a real for me active trust of
Speaker 4: I'll be guided in how to navigate it.
Speaker 1: I'll be guided, and I guess there would be at
Speaker 1: times it would be volatile because people could be upset
Speaker 1: or angry or you know whether or not that's family
Speaker 1: or the person, or confused or just I would guess
Speaker 1: a huge range of kind of feelings and emotions, and
Speaker 1: you know, scenarios that you have to navigate as both
Speaker 1: a medical professional but also as somebody who's there to
Speaker 1: really to I guess, comfort and reassure people.
Speaker 4: And it depends a lot on the circumstances in terms
Speaker 4: of if the person is dying, if that's been expected,
Speaker 4: or in terms of their age. So many factors come
Speaker 4: into it that can determine what the atmosphere is like
Speaker 4: in a given situation. You know, I've been in some
Speaker 4: situations where I've sort of had to facilitate different members
Speaker 4: of the family not being in the room at the
Speaker 4: same time because they're strange. And other times it's been
Speaker 4: absolutely tragic circumstances, someone who was, you know, in the
Speaker 4: prime of their life, young, their life ahead of them,
Speaker 4: so to speak, and whatever is, and they die. And
Speaker 4: in other instances it's been where people have gone down
Speaker 4: the route of the voluntary system dying process, and so
Speaker 4: they've actively said this is how I'm going to die.
Speaker 4: This is the day that I'm going to die, this
Speaker 4: place and the situation, the circumstances I'm going to die.
Speaker 4: It's each one is its own unique experience and needs
Speaker 4: to be approached and respected.
Speaker 1: So the idea of for many of us, the idea
Speaker 1: of choosing the day that you will die, the time
Speaker 1: that you will die, how you will die, who will
Speaker 1: be there or not be there, you know, basically orchestrating
Speaker 1: your death. And of course this is for people who
Speaker 1: I mean quite a few medical hoops need to be
Speaker 1: jumped through and they meet certain criteria and they have
Speaker 1: terminal illnesses and all of those things, of course, but
Speaker 1: to a lot of us, just that thought is it's
Speaker 1: very hard to get our head around, and like on
Speaker 1: a level some people, I'm sure some people would go,
Speaker 1: I totally get it, some people would say, I'm not sure,
Speaker 1: and some people would go, under no circumstances like that
Speaker 1: shouldn't be allowed to happen or tell us about, you know,
Speaker 1: because you're there, like you are the person helping that
Speaker 1: person transition.
Speaker 3: Which I think is the word that you use.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean those instances when I've been in
Speaker 4: the voluntary system dying space. It's the most beautiful and
Speaker 4: peaceful and serene experiences of death that I've experienced as
Speaker 4: a pastal error and as a jest in the sense that, again,
Speaker 4: we all have our own thoughts and ideas and values
Speaker 4: around this, and I'm not trying to deny that or
Speaker 4: diminish that in any way. But until someone is in
Speaker 4: the position where they are terminally ill and they only
Speaker 4: have a certain or finite period of time left for
Speaker 4: them being able to have something that they can have
Speaker 4: some autonomy over in a situation where pretty much everything
Speaker 4: else is out of their control. That can just become
Speaker 4: a sense of I'm still here, i still exist, will
Speaker 4: have a say here. And that's not to say that
Speaker 4: in the medical world, you know the patient and the family,
Speaker 4: they're not. Of course, they're considered and consulted absolutely as
Speaker 4: they should be. But so much is out of your control.
Speaker 4: When you're in hospital, you're totally vulnerable, you're out of you,
Speaker 4: you're out of your own familiar environment. You become you
Speaker 4: take on the identity of a patient as opposed to
Speaker 4: you know, hang on a minute, I'm still Sarah, and
Speaker 4: i still work here, and I've still got this life,
Speaker 4: and I'm still a mom, and I'm still a sister,
Speaker 4: and I'm still a daughter, I'm still a friend. So
Speaker 4: much of that just falls into the background because rightly
Speaker 4: or understandably, the focus is on the illness and the
Speaker 4: treatment and the management and whatever whatever the case may be.
Speaker 4: And I see it as part of my responsibility to
Speaker 4: see the person and to remind them you're still you.
Speaker 4: You're still Sarah, You're still a mother, you're still a wife,
Speaker 4: you're still a daughter, you're still a teacher, You're still
Speaker 4: all those other roles in your life. And this is
Speaker 4: an experience that you were having in your life, but
Speaker 4: it's not all of you. And there aren't any easy
Speaker 4: answers or solutions or generalizations. They just aren't. But I
Speaker 4: remember having a conversation with a patient, probably a couple
Speaker 4: of months ago, and she had made the decision to
Speaker 4: proceed with her application for voluntary sister buying. And I
Speaker 4: think she was I'm forty five. I think she was
Speaker 4: maybe a few years older than me, And I remember
Speaker 4: her saying, until I got into this position, as cancer
Speaker 4: and it's termined on the prognosis wasn't long until I
Speaker 4: actually got into this position, I didn't actually know if
Speaker 4: I would choose this. But now that I'm in it,
Speaker 4: and that she's been through years of treatment, she's exhausted
Speaker 4: all options. Her body is being through like ten marathons
Speaker 4: with all the treatment that go through, She's like, enough,
Speaker 4: Now this is my choice and this is the dignity
Speaker 4: of mine, and so I'm going to step into that.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is an appropriate or a
Speaker 1: dumb question, but we can cut it out, could you?
Speaker 1: What is it like being with someone? And I'm sure
Speaker 1: it varies, but as they breathe their last breath, do you?
Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't know what I'm asking, but
Speaker 1: I just want, like I've been around people that are
Speaker 1: dying or you know, it's like when the Crab died
Speaker 1: in the gym, it was all very busy and traumatic
Speaker 1: and obviously he came back to life seventeen minutes later,
Speaker 1: but it was all very But you're in a very
Speaker 1: different kind of setting and energy.
Speaker 3: What is it like as you go on that journey
Speaker 3: with someone?
Speaker 4: And I think, firstly, just in reference to your experience
Speaker 4: with the Crab, totally different situation in that it's an
Speaker 4: acute situation. It's an emergency situation that the intention for
Speaker 4: everyone in that situation is to present, Whereas in the
Speaker 4: circumstances where I work, the intention is there, that's the
Speaker 4: end goal that we're all working towards. As whatever that
Speaker 4: may sound like, it's the truth. And I think it's
Speaker 4: important that just as human beings, we get more comfortable
Speaker 4: with saying that, because death is going to be truth
Speaker 4: for all of us. But the thing is, it's you know,
Speaker 4: I'm such a medicalized process and issue and almost in
Speaker 4: some instances, not all by all, by any means, but
Speaker 4: in some instances, death or no further treatment. It's like
Speaker 4: we've failed. It's no because death is going to come anyway,
Speaker 4: and that person has done what they've wanted to do
Speaker 4: in terms of their preserving their life to that point,
Speaker 4: and now they're making a decision. I don't want to
Speaker 4: do this anymore. I'm choosing another way. I'm choosing a
Speaker 4: quality of life as that whatever that means for me
Speaker 4: and mean different things to every single person. For some people,
Speaker 4: quality of life is dying with no pain. Father's quality
Speaker 4: of life means dying in a room surrounded by their
Speaker 4: loved ones who toast them as they take their lives.
Speaker 4: For others, dying can be a ninety five year old
Speaker 4: lady who set all her goodbyes and asked me, a
Speaker 4: complete stranger, to be her duella, because she wanted some
Speaker 4: She didn't want family, she didn't want any of that stuff.
Speaker 4: She just wanted to go go out in her own
Speaker 4: home without any emotionally.
Speaker 3: I imagine, Nikki, that.
Speaker 1: Do you like with the hypothetical lady that you just
Speaker 1: mentioned that it's ninety five, chooses to end her life
Speaker 1: with you by her side doing your job. It's not
Speaker 1: really a job, it's more a calling. I feel at
Speaker 1: a job, it's like not quite adequate, but anyway, doing
Speaker 1: what you do, but choosing to have you with her
Speaker 1: as she transitions or as she dies. How like when
Speaker 1: do you meet? How does it work? When do you
Speaker 1: meet her? Do you do you meet with her leading
Speaker 1: up to that day? Do you build a relationship? I'm
Speaker 1: sure you don't. Oh, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I was going to say, I'm sure you don't rock
Speaker 1: up on the day and go, are you the one
Speaker 1: that's dying?
Speaker 3: I think it?
Speaker 4: Do you know?
Speaker 3: Yeah? No, totally work.
Speaker 4: In that particular instance, a colleague referred me to the
Speaker 4: lady because my colleague knew that I was a deaf
Speaker 4: doller and knew that the lady wanted to have someone
Speaker 4: who was completely removed from her world and could just
Speaker 4: be there in a nursing and also supportive capacity to
Speaker 4: support her to take her medication and to die.
Speaker 3: So and why did she choose that? Like? Why did she?
Speaker 1: And there's no judgment in here, just curiosity because was
Speaker 1: I'm guessing I'm probably wrong, But she didn't want she
Speaker 1: didn't want to make people sad or uncomfortable or.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I knew this lady I guess from start to
Speaker 4: finish about a period of six weeks. I met her
Speaker 4: when she was at the beginning of her application process
Speaker 4: voluntary sister dying, and I was in that sort of
Speaker 4: process that the individual needs to have a contact person.
Speaker 4: But this lady nominated me to be her contact person.
Speaker 4: And she didn't want to nominate anyone in her family,
Speaker 4: any friends, or anything like that. She just wanted someone
Speaker 4: who was completely neutral. And again that was unique to
Speaker 4: this circumstance. Quite often, in other circumstances, a spouse will
Speaker 4: be the contact person, or a sister or a brother,
Speaker 4: or a friend, or someone who's intimately involved with that person.
Speaker 4: This particular lady, she was ninety five, her husband had
Speaker 4: died many years ago, as sons lived, both of them
Speaker 4: were living inter state, and she said to me, Nicky,
Speaker 4: I've said everything I wanted to say to them. I've
Speaker 4: had all the conversations. I just don't I don't want
Speaker 4: to I don't want to do any of that anymore.
Speaker 4: I've said my goodbyes, I've made my piece of the situation.
Speaker 4: This is why I'm taking this direction, I think, and
Speaker 4: everyone's different, but that's how she wanted to go out
Speaker 4: those were her terms that she wanted to go out on.
Speaker 1: And the people that you've sat with in those last
Speaker 1: to feel free to ask a question, because this is fascinating.
Speaker 1: The people that you sit with as they, you know,
Speaker 1: take their last breath and the you know they administered
Speaker 1: the drugs or whatever it is, are they did, I
Speaker 1: feel like I'd go, oh fuck, wait on, hang.
Speaker 3: On, I'm not sure, like I'm not I'm not trying
Speaker 3: to be a dickhead.
Speaker 4: No, no, no, no.
Speaker 3: The people are they? They come? Are they? I'm sure
Speaker 3: it's different.
Speaker 4: But yeah, it is different. And for the majority of
Speaker 4: the ones that I've been involved in, it's been a
Speaker 4: conscious and united choice by the individual and they've been
Speaker 4: supported by their family members because often in the settings
Speaker 4: that I work in, the family have supported their loved
Speaker 4: one to quite and link the honest and just the
Speaker 4: absolute marathon that can be medical and hospitalizations go on
Speaker 4: for you sometimes and can involve multiple different treatments and
Speaker 4: can just be a really grueling journey, grueling for everyone
Speaker 4: because not only does the individual patient go through it,
Speaker 4: to a person go through it, their loved ones go
Speaker 4: through it with them exactly at the same time, and
Speaker 4: quite often with the loved ones. There is I'm not
Speaker 4: trying to diminish what the patient goes through, but it
Speaker 4: is torture in some instances to see your loved one
Speaker 4: in pain and suffering and you can't change. And that's
Speaker 4: Those are a lot of the conversations that I have
Speaker 4: with partners or cares or family members that often the
Speaker 4: words to me are, I can't do anything. I've got
Speaker 4: nothing to give. No. I think we need to look
Speaker 4: at that a bit more closely. You're here, you're supporting them,
Speaker 4: you're loving them, you are literally companioning them into their
Speaker 4: next next phase of life. You are actually giving them
Speaker 4: the greatest love of all because yes it's painful, Yes
Speaker 4: you'd rather they stay here, but you're putting that aside
Speaker 4: because this is where they need to go. You're showing up.
Speaker 2: In those moments after Nikki for you. Do you feel sad?
Speaker 4: It can depend on the circumstances give in that in
Speaker 4: some instances. But being such a ruling, drawn out road,
Speaker 4: it's there's a sense of that they're not suffering anymore.
Speaker 4: And and but more importantly than that, they've gone out
Speaker 4: on their terms. They went out exactly as they wanted
Speaker 4: to and the privilege to be able to facilitate something
Speaker 4: like that someone who's gone through an experience of being
Speaker 4: unwell to then have the capacity, autonomy, the power to say,
Speaker 4: I'm choosing now, I'm choosing now, Because when you got
Speaker 4: to treatment, yes you can choose if you want to
Speaker 4: keep going and everything, but in treatment it's all on
Speaker 4: you know, treatment and then the side effects. Managing that
Speaker 4: and managing the follow up. The surveillance is an absolute
Speaker 4: commitment and dedication of the person and the family. So
Speaker 4: for them to then have that power of choice given
Speaker 4: back to them to say I choose now, it's ordinary.
Speaker 2: And now of you, has it been a process of
Speaker 2: how do you protect you? How do you protect your
Speaker 2: emotional wellbeing? And things that might be brought up?
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course unfortunate in the sense that I work
Speaker 4: closely with my colleagues and so we can debrief with
Speaker 4: each other and support each other. And I have my
Speaker 4: own sort of practices in my own life that's support
Speaker 4: and nurture my well being physically, mentally, and emotionally and spiritually.
Speaker 4: So in that sense, h whether this sounds bizarre or
Speaker 4: not for me, it's I wouldn't I choose to be there.
Speaker 4: If I can support someone in their choices, it's my
Speaker 4: privilege to have any part in that. Yeah, And to
Speaker 4: facilitate someone being able to step into their own choice,
Speaker 4: that is an absolute privilege and honor.
Speaker 2: I feel like similarly to the kind of resilience and
Speaker 2: adversity mindset, and I have a lot of those conversations
Speaker 2: that relate to boxing in the physical world as well,
Speaker 2: but just makes me think of how the impact of
Speaker 2: what you see and go through and then how you
Speaker 2: process finding joy, Like I imagine if I'm wrong, that you
Speaker 2: now have it an innate ability to find joy and
Speaker 2: beauty in really tough situations, and that is a gift.
Speaker 2: And I feel like if we could take insights from that,
Speaker 2: that could be really powerful in life.
Speaker 4: That's why I want to say, there are some instances
Speaker 4: where I just need to go and have a crime
Speaker 4: because they just rip your heart out. And again it's
Speaker 4: circumstance by circumstance. But overall, what I what I try
Speaker 4: to approach this role with is it's not about me.
Speaker 4: It's about how can I be of service? How can
Speaker 4: can I be of loving service? Here doesn't mean it's
Speaker 4: all hearts and rainbows because it's not because sometimes it's bloody, ugly,
Speaker 4: and it's rugged and it's painful. You know, it's just painful.
Speaker 4: But having said that, I still see it as my
Speaker 4: role to hold space for that and to give witness
Speaker 4: to that, give it the respect of bearing witness to it.
Speaker 1: Nick, can I ask sometimes when I'm listening, like I've
Speaker 1: been listening to YouTube for the last five and sitting
Speaker 1: back more as a listener than a host, right, And
Speaker 1: then I think, if I was in the car listening
Speaker 1: to this, what would I want to ask?
Speaker 3: Niki?
Speaker 1: And maybe no one else would want to ask this,
Speaker 1: but I would want to ask you. If I just
Speaker 1: heard you and I didn't know you, I would want
Speaker 1: to hear what is your spiritual practice like? Could you
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're comfortable, and I'm sure it
Speaker 1: varies a bit day to day, but could you tell
Speaker 1: us what that looks like for you in the real world,
Speaker 1: because I feel like, not only emotionally, mentally and practically
Speaker 1: do you need to be ready, but you need to
Speaker 1: be spiritually ready to do what you do to be
Speaker 1: as a functional and well as you are. So what
Speaker 1: is your spiritual practice? If you could try to describe that, Yeah, it's.
Speaker 4: An ongoing, evolving experience process. And the more I sort
Speaker 4: of go along this road, the more I sort of
Speaker 4: realized what I don't know, and that's not a bad thing.
Speaker 4: More about being open and curious, and if I'm less
Speaker 4: sort of baggage I bring to it, the more receptive
Speaker 4: hopefully I'll be to what is actually out there. And
Speaker 4: I know that probably sounds quite I know, airy fair,
Speaker 4: and I don't mean it that way at all, because
Speaker 4: for me, my spirituality is very much about you know, action,
Speaker 4: faith in action, you know, stepping into things that get
Speaker 4: the shit out of me. It's like, nah, you've put
Speaker 4: your hand up to be of service, then you go.
Speaker 4: And so it can be quite gritty at times as well.
Speaker 4: And then I sort of nourish my own self with
Speaker 4: things like nature, with my meditation practices, my yoga practices,
Speaker 4: with the reiki that I practice. Being out in nature
Speaker 4: is it just soothes my soul. I don't know how
Speaker 4: else to describe it. When I'm out in nature, everything
Speaker 4: else just slips away and I just become present what's
Speaker 4: around all of us. You know, the sort of the
Speaker 4: noise in my head just get a little bit quieter.
Speaker 4: And it's like open your ears, open your eyes, open
Speaker 4: your heart to what is here for all of us,
Speaker 4: right here, right now. I'm not special, I'm not anyone
Speaker 4: different at all. I'm just doing this human gig too.
Speaker 4: But I guess I have an intention of being open
Speaker 4: to and growing my awareness of what can't I see,
Speaker 4: what can't I necessarily touch, but what what I believe
Speaker 4: is out there? And I don't know what it is
Speaker 4: that's out there, but I in my heart, I believe
Speaker 4: there's something greater than all this that is out there,
Speaker 4: and that's for me. Hopefully that will be a lifelong
Speaker 4: curiosity and journey and navigation.
Speaker 3: And well, and I love it.
Speaker 4: And no one's got to handle on it. No one's
Speaker 4: got to handle on it's this or it's that. We've
Speaker 4: all got ideas, and you know, we all need to
Speaker 4: have those things that help us to feel comfortable with
Speaker 4: our own values and our own practices. And I understand
Speaker 4: that and I have them myself. But I think also
Speaker 4: for me, as I got continue to go along, it's
Speaker 4: like what do I need to let go of? Here?
Speaker 4: What do I need to let go of? Yes? I
Speaker 4: like that because it makes me feel comfortable and fixed
Speaker 4: in with it, I think, But is it actually just
Speaker 4: is that purely I hold on to it because it's
Speaker 4: purely selfish or fear based or pride based or whatever.
Speaker 4: Or is it Am I really willing to show up
Speaker 4: and stand naked, eat an open be an open hard
Speaker 4: I should say?
Speaker 3: Hm, wow, wow, so good, so good.
Speaker 1: I just get a little bit lost sitting there, thinking
Speaker 1: I don't feel like a host anymore.
Speaker 3: I feel like a student.
Speaker 4: I've had this most beautiful saying, we're all just walking
Speaker 4: each other home.
Speaker 3: Oh God, don't make me cry.
Speaker 4: The most beautiful thing. But that's what we're all doing.
Speaker 4: We're all just walking at each other home.
Speaker 3: Wow. I wonder what home looks like exactly.
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for jumping on because we
Speaker 1: had somebody out and I buzzed you on very short
Speaker 1: notice and said, could you have a chat to us?
Speaker 1: I said, I'm not sure what about Really, we had
Speaker 1: an idea, we didn't do the idea, and this was
Speaker 1: much This was much better than my fucking dumb idea.
Speaker 4: No anytime.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Nick, stay there, we'll say goodbye off air.
Speaker 1: But Tiff, thank you, Nikki, thank you.
Speaker 4: Thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Tiff, thank you all right, thanks ladies.