1 00:00:00,760 --> 00:00:02,960 Speaker 1: I'll get at like com fro another in storming the show, 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cook over there at Bloody typ Central High 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,360 Speaker 1: Cook High, Harps, how. 4 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 2: Are you very good? Very good? 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 3: Thanks? 6 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:18,639 Speaker 1: What's bloody going on? It's maybe two weeks post India? 7 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,720 Speaker 1: Have you still got the aura? Have you still got 8 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:24,800 Speaker 1: the vibe? Are you still? Are you still at one 9 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:25,919 Speaker 1: with all things? 10 00:00:26,239 --> 00:00:29,000 Speaker 2: I definitely do. But I wouldn't mind sitting on that 11 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:33,080 Speaker 2: mountain again. I would like to be up there, you know, 12 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,080 Speaker 2: just every few days, just a morning on the mountain. 13 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:40,479 Speaker 1: Well, the closest thing that I know personally to an 14 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:43,760 Speaker 1: enlightened being has joined us on the show. 15 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 3: So if you want to get a little bit of 16 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 3: your zen and a little bit. 17 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: Of your calm back. In fact, I didn't think of 18 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,400 Speaker 1: this till right now, but Nicki Morrison. 19 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 4: High, Hey, how's it going? 20 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 3: Oh good, really good? Thank you. I didn't tell you. 21 00:01:01,080 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: I didn't tell you this, But if you tell Nikki forgive. 22 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 3: I know our listeners no, but. 23 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 1: Yes, so give her the snapshot of what happened while 24 00:01:13,720 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 1: you were there on real. 25 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:20,399 Speaker 2: Oh so I went on a seven day retreat in 26 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:25,120 Speaker 2: the Himalayas. Oh yeah, Oh it was amazing. My friend 27 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 2: Jim Fuller, he runs the retreat, he did some facilitated stuff. 28 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:33,320 Speaker 2: The first two knights were at a temple nestled at 29 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: the bottom of the Himalayas in a village called Nagga 30 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 2: run by the religious family. And then Papu, who is 31 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,000 Speaker 2: the son of Fama who runs the temple, he led 32 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 2: our tour. We did some facilitated stuff. It was it 33 00:01:49,480 --> 00:01:54,280 Speaker 2: moved me. It was amazing sitting above the clouds for 34 00:01:54,320 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 2: seven days and at them. 35 00:01:58,000 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 4: Like during the retreat, with the periods where you had 36 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,840 Speaker 4: to be silent or was there it was just time 37 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 4: out from your normal life. 38 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, So day four that all of our hiking was 39 00:02:08,720 --> 00:02:11,799 Speaker 2: in silence. So that was a really really spiritual and 40 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:17,239 Speaker 2: deep day. And then we at the probably the midpoint 41 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 2: of that day, we did a ritual, a letting go 42 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,400 Speaker 2: ritual where we burned the things that we didn't that 43 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 2: we wanted to leave on the mountain and it was 44 00:02:24,520 --> 00:02:26,880 Speaker 2: There were tears and a couple of other things happened 45 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:28,040 Speaker 2: up there, but it. 46 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 4: Was a powerful action. 47 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: It's powerful. Nick changed me. Like the things I burned 48 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 2: I carried around for forty years didn't come home. 49 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:40,639 Speaker 4: But when you go with that intention of I'm here, 50 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 4: I'm icknowledged, acknowledging them, and now I'm ready to release them. 51 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's exactly what happened. And I didn't expect that. 52 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 2: It was in the moment that right before Papu lit 53 00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,799 Speaker 2: the match and I and I put the paper onto it. 54 00:02:56,280 --> 00:03:00,080 Speaker 2: In that moment, I just closed my eyes and I 55 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: expressed gratitude for whatever the reason that i'd held that, 56 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,400 Speaker 2: for whatever purpose it served, and I just felt like 57 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 2: that was a you know, those things that happen and you, 58 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,520 Speaker 2: not from you kind of thing. I was like, oh, 59 00:03:14,560 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: that was interesting. I didn't plan to do that. 60 00:03:17,960 --> 00:03:20,920 Speaker 4: And I think so often what comes out of us 61 00:03:20,960 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 4: is what needs to come out of us. When we're 62 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,800 Speaker 4: just open and in a space where there is a 63 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:29,240 Speaker 4: chance to be quiet and still and out of our 64 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 4: normal daily life, then those things had the chance to surface. Amazing, 65 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 4: Well done, Thank you, thank you beautiful. 66 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 3: You are quite different. 67 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 1: I like, well, not I like that because you're different, 68 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: but I like it for you because it seems. Spirituality 69 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:54,400 Speaker 1: is an interesting construct or an interesting thing. Sorry I 70 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: should sound less like a scientist, but it's an interesting 71 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 1: thing because it's a really slippery thing. It's like it's 72 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,920 Speaker 1: trying to define spirituality in a meaningful way that doesn't 73 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 1: sound cheesy or bullshitty. It's pretty hard, yes, but it's 74 00:04:16,760 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 1: like there's something about your energy that's quite different. And 75 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: it's not that it's not that you've had to shift 76 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: in attitude, although that may have happened as well. But 77 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,320 Speaker 1: you know, when you see someone and there's something's changed 78 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: about their mind so they're thinking a bit differently. It's 79 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: very cognitive, it's very cerebral, and you know, but then 80 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: there's sometimes something else happens and it's like, oh yeah, 81 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: and like, I'm not pissing in your pocket. I don't 82 00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 1: think you're the dell Alama. I think you've got a 83 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: way to go, as do we all as do we, 84 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: But it's like for you, there is you know, there 85 00:04:55,680 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: is something that's quite different about your energy and about 86 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 1: you know, being around you. Not that I've been around 87 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:06,080 Speaker 1: you much, but you know what I mean, it's yes, 88 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 1: so it's good, it's good. I mean, well done. What 89 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: do you moving forward? Do you intend to have? This 90 00:05:16,839 --> 00:05:21,520 Speaker 1: is weird too, but a spiritual practice or what's that 91 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: look like? 92 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,200 Speaker 2: Ah, even as you described that whole not being able 93 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:30,880 Speaker 2: to put words to things I agree with that. I 94 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 2: find it hard. I feel different doing different, and I 95 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 2: can't really wrap words around what that is, means or 96 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 2: looks like. So I'm saying with this question, yes, but 97 00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,520 Speaker 2: it's this process of letting it unfold and being aware 98 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 2: and knowing, Like I think letting go is a big 99 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 2: part of like surrender. I have this thing about surrendering, 100 00:05:55,640 --> 00:05:58,760 Speaker 2: and I feel that that's a big thing that happened. 101 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 2: I've tried to let go, like I've tried really hard. 102 00:06:02,520 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 4: To let go, damn it. 103 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 3: For a long time. 104 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 2: I've been aware of that as being an issue holding 105 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,279 Speaker 2: onto stuff, and I really feel like that started to 106 00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 2: be a process that's happened. So it's sitting in the 107 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 2: middle of it, going how much perspective can I keep 108 00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: as I now move forward and stay here and move 109 00:06:22,880 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: forward and don't go back, but don't try too hard, 110 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 2: Like I don't know, I don't know what it's going 111 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:28,279 Speaker 2: to look like. 112 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:34,200 Speaker 4: Ups And if it sounded like you to we went 113 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 4: on the retreat with an intention, whether you were conscious 114 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,920 Speaker 4: of it or not, and because you had an intention 115 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 4: and you were open, whatever the process was, it sounds 116 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:51,280 Speaker 4: like to me there's been a shift on a deep 117 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:55,480 Speaker 4: level within you that might not come to light until 118 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 4: later on down the track that that shift has happened, 119 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 4: and it's it's irreversible because you were you were present 120 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,840 Speaker 4: to it and you were open to it and accepting 121 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 4: on it. 122 00:07:10,160 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: And it's that that like coming back and going did 123 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: I do that? 124 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 4: Yeah? Totally, I do it? 125 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: Does it like what do I do with this understanding now? 126 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 2: And I don't incorporate it or not? Maybe more to 127 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:25,400 Speaker 2: the point. 128 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 4: Yeah, totally. And I think sometimes we don't have to 129 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:33,000 Speaker 4: overthink it. We can just for me sometimes I'm like, Nikki, 130 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:36,680 Speaker 4: get out of your head and just just be open 131 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 4: to it. Just say for me, I'm open to whatever 132 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 4: you have to teach me, whether it's now or down 133 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 4: the track. But I thank you for the the grace 134 00:07:49,120 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 4: to stay open. 135 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,680 Speaker 1: M I think that's the trick Nick and Ti if 136 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: I think part of it is is to get your 137 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,920 Speaker 1: mind out of the way. Is like I think your mind, 138 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 1: you know, like the mind is a two edged sword, 139 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: you know, because it can be it can solve all 140 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:13,400 Speaker 1: these problems, and it can create all these problems out 141 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,120 Speaker 1: of thin air. And so like trying to manage your 142 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:21,920 Speaker 1: mind and trying to understand your mind. But I think, 143 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,280 Speaker 1: I think one of the things for us when you 144 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 1: know and people grow No, I grew up in a 145 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: really religious and then less religious and more spiritual kind 146 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: of for a while and quite a while, and it's like, 147 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: there's so much stuff that doesn't make sense in inverted 148 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,160 Speaker 1: commas logically right. And because it doesn't, because we can't 149 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: put it in a box or measure it or poke 150 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:51,000 Speaker 1: it or feel it or touch it or quantify it, 151 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: we go, oh, that must be bullshit, which is a 152 00:08:54,920 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: really arrogant thing to think, because what we're saying is, well, 153 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:01,439 Speaker 1: if I don't understand it, then must be bullshit, because 154 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 1: I'm a genius, you know, whereas the truth is of 155 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: all there is to know, Like we don't know what 156 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: we don't know, and you know, it's just like being 157 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: I think, not being gullible or vulnerable in a bad way, 158 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,800 Speaker 1: but being open in a curious way. 159 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 2: Yesterday when I was talking to Bobby, and the first 160 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:29,200 Speaker 2: thing I said to him was this reference. And I 161 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 2: say it often about time feels warped to me, and 162 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,920 Speaker 2: I've always said since COVID, And remember perhaps the other 163 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:39,079 Speaker 2: day I said to you about the last four years, 164 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 2: which show that just dawned on me. Now, so it 165 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 2: is a thing that time was warped to me and 166 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:48,160 Speaker 2: it goes so fast. But then I realized that when 167 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:51,120 Speaker 2: I came back, I wanted to stop all this rushing. 168 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,760 Speaker 2: I've listened to an audiobook on one point one. I 169 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 2: haven't listened to anything audio at under one point five 170 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,760 Speaker 2: speed before, or I have walked at normal walking pace 171 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,440 Speaker 2: without rushing. Like I'm doing everything without rushing, and I'll 172 00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: be interested to see what my relationship with time starts 173 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,880 Speaker 2: to look and feel like over time. Now I'm not rushing. 174 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:21,480 Speaker 1: Wow, like we're rushing to nowhere in particular, that's the 175 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: right we're. 176 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 4: You know, trying to live life before before we get 177 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 4: their sort of thing. 178 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, and in the process not living at all. 179 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 4: Exactly because we're so focused on where we've got to 180 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 4: get to. And it's like, no, hang on, this is life. This, 181 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:40,880 Speaker 4: these are the moments of life. And more and more 182 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 4: I'm conscious of that, you know, often walking around or 183 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 4: whatever and rushing around and it's like no, Nikki, don't 184 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:54,440 Speaker 4: just look at the flower. Actually stop and smart because 185 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 4: in my head it's like, oh, I'll do that another day. 186 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,559 Speaker 4: It's like, no, you ain't so poor. Now be in 187 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 4: this moment. Now open your eyes to what's in front 188 00:11:05,440 --> 00:11:06,079 Speaker 4: of you. 189 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: Right now, Nicky, can I just ask you to give 190 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: us a little bit of a snapshot because some people 191 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:19,000 Speaker 1: will be meeting you for the first time, So correct 192 00:11:19,040 --> 00:11:21,559 Speaker 1: what I fuck up, and add whatever you want and 193 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,760 Speaker 1: subtract whatever you want. But among other things, of course, 194 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 1: you and I went to university one hundred years ago, 195 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,320 Speaker 1: and you did exercise science and you were a year 196 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: or ahead of me, believe it or not, but she's 197 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: younger than me, much younger than me, because I started 198 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 1: when I was one hundred and four, and then you did. 199 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: Then you did an honors degree. I think you got 200 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:45,720 Speaker 1: offered a PhD scholarship because you're a smarty pants, which 201 00:11:45,760 --> 00:11:50,840 Speaker 1: you ended up not doing. Then you did nursing, so 202 00:11:50,920 --> 00:11:54,840 Speaker 1: you've got multiple degrees. And then you obviously you've worked 203 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:58,839 Speaker 1: as a nurse for quite a long time, but now 204 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: you are working more in the space of pastoral care. 205 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 4: That's right. 206 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:05,520 Speaker 3: I'm still in a hospital setting. 207 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:09,400 Speaker 1: And also you are a death dueler, so you work 208 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:14,000 Speaker 1: with a lot of people who are somewhere between pretty sick. 209 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,479 Speaker 3: To very very sick. 210 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 1: Too at the end of their life and even being 211 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:24,880 Speaker 1: with people as their life is ending. Tell me how 212 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,120 Speaker 1: that works for one of a better term with your 213 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:33,880 Speaker 1: spiritual philosophy and journey, Like, how do it? 214 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 3: Because like is it tricky? 215 00:12:36,640 --> 00:12:39,920 Speaker 1: Because you can't impose your values or thinking on people, 216 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 1: not at all? So how do you navigate that space 217 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 1: where you're with someone who's literally got hours to live 218 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: or days to live and you're just being with them? 219 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 4: I think, for me, when I'm in those situations, it's 220 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 4: incredibly important that I'm grounded and mindful of the situation 221 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:08,520 Speaker 4: and also the fact that it's not about me. This 222 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:12,000 Speaker 4: is about me what can I bring to this situation? 223 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 4: So take my personality out of it and almost sort 224 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 4: of step into how can I be of use in 225 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 4: this situation? And for whatever anyone believes in, but for me, 226 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:29,360 Speaker 4: I sort of I believe in a universal energy and spirit, 227 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 4: And so in those moments, I sort of offer out 228 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 4: a prayer and say, use me as your hands and 229 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:40,200 Speaker 4: your feet be my voice for me. Whatever you need, 230 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 4: show me how to do it for you, what you 231 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:49,560 Speaker 4: need for this person in this moment. I don't quite 232 00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 4: know how oft to put it, But it's being very 233 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:55,680 Speaker 4: conscious of the fact that it's not about me, that 234 00:13:55,800 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 4: it's about being mindful and respectful and also being prepared 235 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 4: for anything, because in those sorts of situations, you open 236 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,760 Speaker 4: the door and you step in, and you don't necessarily 237 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 4: know what you're stepping into. If you're stepping into, you know, 238 00:14:18,160 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 4: family situation with their loved one, or if there's adversity 239 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,160 Speaker 4: in that situation, if there's harmony, you just don't know. 240 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 4: And so it's a real for me active trust of 241 00:14:33,400 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 4: I'll be guided in how to navigate it. 242 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 1: I'll be guided, and I guess there would be at 243 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 1: times it would be volatile because people could be upset 244 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 1: or angry or you know whether or not that's family 245 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: or the person, or confused or just I would guess 246 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 1: a huge range of kind of feelings and emotions, and 247 00:14:57,280 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: you know, scenarios that you have to navigate as both 248 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: a medical professional but also as somebody who's there to 249 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 1: really to I guess, comfort and reassure people. 250 00:15:09,280 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 4: And it depends a lot on the circumstances in terms 251 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 4: of if the person is dying, if that's been expected, 252 00:15:20,440 --> 00:15:26,880 Speaker 4: or in terms of their age. So many factors come 253 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 4: into it that can determine what the atmosphere is like 254 00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 4: in a given situation. You know, I've been in some 255 00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 4: situations where I've sort of had to facilitate different members 256 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 4: of the family not being in the room at the 257 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 4: same time because they're strange. And other times it's been 258 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 4: absolutely tragic circumstances, someone who was, you know, in the 259 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,440 Speaker 4: prime of their life, young, their life ahead of them, 260 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:05,440 Speaker 4: so to speak, and whatever is, and they die. And 261 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,320 Speaker 4: in other instances it's been where people have gone down 262 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:13,760 Speaker 4: the route of the voluntary system dying process, and so 263 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,520 Speaker 4: they've actively said this is how I'm going to die. 264 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 4: This is the day that I'm going to die, this 265 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:24,200 Speaker 4: place and the situation, the circumstances I'm going to die. 266 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 4: It's each one is its own unique experience and needs 267 00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:34,400 Speaker 4: to be approached and respected. 268 00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: So the idea of for many of us, the idea 269 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: of choosing the day that you will die, the time 270 00:16:44,640 --> 00:16:48,160 Speaker 1: that you will die, how you will die, who will 271 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:53,760 Speaker 1: be there or not be there, you know, basically orchestrating 272 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: your death. And of course this is for people who 273 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,880 Speaker 1: I mean quite a few medical hoops need to be 274 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:05,159 Speaker 1: jumped through and they meet certain criteria and they have 275 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 1: terminal illnesses and all of those things, of course, but 276 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,600 Speaker 1: to a lot of us, just that thought is it's 277 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:19,399 Speaker 1: very hard to get our head around, and like on 278 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 1: a level some people, I'm sure some people would go, 279 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,640 Speaker 1: I totally get it, some people would say, I'm not sure, 280 00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:28,000 Speaker 1: and some people would go, under no circumstances like that 281 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:32,159 Speaker 1: shouldn't be allowed to happen or tell us about, you know, 282 00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: because you're there, like you are the person helping that 283 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:38,800 Speaker 1: person transition. 284 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 3: Which I think is the word that you use. 285 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:48,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, And I mean those instances when I've been in 286 00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 4: the voluntary system dying space. It's the most beautiful and 287 00:17:54,720 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 4: peaceful and serene experiences of death that I've experienced as 288 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 4: a pastal error and as a jest in the sense that, again, 289 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 4: we all have our own thoughts and ideas and values 290 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 4: around this, and I'm not trying to deny that or 291 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:24,560 Speaker 4: diminish that in any way. But until someone is in 292 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:31,520 Speaker 4: the position where they are terminally ill and they only 293 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 4: have a certain or finite period of time left for 294 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 4: them being able to have something that they can have 295 00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:45,040 Speaker 4: some autonomy over in a situation where pretty much everything 296 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:49,199 Speaker 4: else is out of their control. That can just become 297 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:54,240 Speaker 4: a sense of I'm still here, i still exist, will 298 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:56,960 Speaker 4: have a say here. And that's not to say that 299 00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 4: in the medical world, you know the patient and the family, 300 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,879 Speaker 4: they're not. Of course, they're considered and consulted absolutely as 301 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 4: they should be. But so much is out of your control. 302 00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:14,320 Speaker 4: When you're in hospital, you're totally vulnerable, you're out of you, 303 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,560 Speaker 4: you're out of your own familiar environment. You become you 304 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 4: take on the identity of a patient as opposed to 305 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 4: you know, hang on a minute, I'm still Sarah, and 306 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:26,720 Speaker 4: i still work here, and I've still got this life, 307 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:29,160 Speaker 4: and I'm still a mom, and I'm still a sister, 308 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:31,879 Speaker 4: and I'm still a daughter, I'm still a friend. So 309 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:37,639 Speaker 4: much of that just falls into the background because rightly 310 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 4: or understandably, the focus is on the illness and the 311 00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 4: treatment and the management and whatever whatever the case may be. 312 00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:52,000 Speaker 4: And I see it as part of my responsibility to 313 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,760 Speaker 4: see the person and to remind them you're still you. 314 00:19:56,760 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 4: You're still Sarah, You're still a mother, you're still a wife, 315 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,520 Speaker 4: you're still a daughter, you're still a teacher, You're still 316 00:20:04,359 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 4: all those other roles in your life. And this is 317 00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,080 Speaker 4: an experience that you were having in your life, but 318 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:17,760 Speaker 4: it's not all of you. And there aren't any easy 319 00:20:18,520 --> 00:20:23,159 Speaker 4: answers or solutions or generalizations. They just aren't. But I 320 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:27,680 Speaker 4: remember having a conversation with a patient, probably a couple 321 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 4: of months ago, and she had made the decision to 322 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:36,639 Speaker 4: proceed with her application for voluntary sister buying. And I 323 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,680 Speaker 4: think she was I'm forty five. I think she was 324 00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:42,720 Speaker 4: maybe a few years older than me, And I remember 325 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:48,360 Speaker 4: her saying, until I got into this position, as cancer 326 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 4: and it's termined on the prognosis wasn't long until I 327 00:20:55,440 --> 00:20:59,119 Speaker 4: actually got into this position, I didn't actually know if 328 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 4: I would choose this. But now that I'm in it, 329 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 4: and that she's been through years of treatment, she's exhausted 330 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:14,640 Speaker 4: all options. Her body is being through like ten marathons 331 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,600 Speaker 4: with all the treatment that go through, She's like, enough, 332 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,480 Speaker 4: Now this is my choice and this is the dignity 333 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 4: of mine, and so I'm going to step into that. 334 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 3: Wow. 335 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: I don't know if this is an appropriate or a 336 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:40,879 Speaker 1: dumb question, but we can cut it out, could you? 337 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,240 Speaker 1: What is it like being with someone? And I'm sure 338 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: it varies, but as they breathe their last breath, do you? 339 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:54,639 Speaker 1: And I mean, I don't know what I'm asking, but 340 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:58,400 Speaker 1: I just want, like I've been around people that are 341 00:21:58,760 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 1: dying or you know, it's like when the Crab died 342 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: in the gym, it was all very busy and traumatic 343 00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: and obviously he came back to life seventeen minutes later, 344 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,640 Speaker 1: but it was all very But you're in a very 345 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 1: different kind of setting and energy. 346 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 3: What is it like as you go on that journey 347 00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:18,080 Speaker 3: with someone? 348 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 4: And I think, firstly, just in reference to your experience 349 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 4: with the Crab, totally different situation in that it's an 350 00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:33,520 Speaker 4: acute situation. It's an emergency situation that the intention for 351 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:39,240 Speaker 4: everyone in that situation is to present, Whereas in the 352 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 4: circumstances where I work, the intention is there, that's the 353 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:52,760 Speaker 4: end goal that we're all working towards. As whatever that 354 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,760 Speaker 4: may sound like, it's the truth. And I think it's 355 00:22:55,800 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 4: important that just as human beings, we get more comfortable 356 00:23:01,760 --> 00:23:08,000 Speaker 4: with saying that, because death is going to be truth 357 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 4: for all of us. But the thing is, it's you know, 358 00:23:13,640 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 4: I'm such a medicalized process and issue and almost in 359 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 4: some instances, not all by all, by any means, but 360 00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:29,159 Speaker 4: in some instances, death or no further treatment. It's like 361 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 4: we've failed. It's no because death is going to come anyway, 362 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 4: and that person has done what they've wanted to do 363 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 4: in terms of their preserving their life to that point, 364 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,879 Speaker 4: and now they're making a decision. I don't want to 365 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,320 Speaker 4: do this anymore. I'm choosing another way. I'm choosing a 366 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,880 Speaker 4: quality of life as that whatever that means for me 367 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:03,560 Speaker 4: and mean different things to every single person. For some people, 368 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:08,160 Speaker 4: quality of life is dying with no pain. Father's quality 369 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,800 Speaker 4: of life means dying in a room surrounded by their 370 00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 4: loved ones who toast them as they take their lives. 371 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 4: For others, dying can be a ninety five year old 372 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 4: lady who set all her goodbyes and asked me, a 373 00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 4: complete stranger, to be her duella, because she wanted some 374 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 4: She didn't want family, she didn't want any of that stuff. 375 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 4: She just wanted to go go out in her own 376 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:38,840 Speaker 4: home without any emotionally. 377 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 3: I imagine, Nikki, that. 378 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: Do you like with the hypothetical lady that you just 379 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:53,520 Speaker 1: mentioned that it's ninety five, chooses to end her life 380 00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:57,879 Speaker 1: with you by her side doing your job. It's not 381 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 1: really a job, it's more a calling. I feel at 382 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: a job, it's like not quite adequate, but anyway, doing 383 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:10,600 Speaker 1: what you do, but choosing to have you with her 384 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:18,000 Speaker 1: as she transitions or as she dies. How like when 385 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:20,359 Speaker 1: do you meet? How does it work? When do you 386 00:25:20,520 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: meet her? Do you do you meet with her leading 387 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: up to that day? Do you build a relationship? I'm 388 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,679 Speaker 1: sure you don't. Oh, I don't know. 389 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:29,080 Speaker 3: I don't know. 390 00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: I was going to say, I'm sure you don't rock 391 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: up on the day and go, are you the one 392 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 1: that's dying? 393 00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:33,639 Speaker 3: I think it? 394 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:35,439 Speaker 4: Do you know? 395 00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,120 Speaker 3: Yeah? No, totally work. 396 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 4: In that particular instance, a colleague referred me to the 397 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,160 Speaker 4: lady because my colleague knew that I was a deaf 398 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:54,040 Speaker 4: doller and knew that the lady wanted to have someone 399 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,479 Speaker 4: who was completely removed from her world and could just 400 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 4: be there in a nursing and also supportive capacity to 401 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 4: support her to take her medication and to die. 402 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:13,560 Speaker 3: So and why did she choose that? Like? Why did she? 403 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,639 Speaker 1: And there's no judgment in here, just curiosity because was 404 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: I'm guessing I'm probably wrong, But she didn't want she 405 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: didn't want to make people sad or uncomfortable or. 406 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:31,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, I knew this lady I guess from start to 407 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 4: finish about a period of six weeks. I met her 408 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,960 Speaker 4: when she was at the beginning of her application process 409 00:26:39,080 --> 00:26:44,119 Speaker 4: voluntary sister dying, and I was in that sort of 410 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:47,959 Speaker 4: process that the individual needs to have a contact person. 411 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,200 Speaker 4: But this lady nominated me to be her contact person. 412 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:55,360 Speaker 4: And she didn't want to nominate anyone in her family, 413 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 4: any friends, or anything like that. She just wanted someone 414 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:03,399 Speaker 4: who was completely neutral. And again that was unique to 415 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 4: this circumstance. Quite often, in other circumstances, a spouse will 416 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,480 Speaker 4: be the contact person, or a sister or a brother, 417 00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:18,119 Speaker 4: or a friend, or someone who's intimately involved with that person. 418 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:23,640 Speaker 4: This particular lady, she was ninety five, her husband had 419 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 4: died many years ago, as sons lived, both of them 420 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 4: were living inter state, and she said to me, Nicky, 421 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:36,840 Speaker 4: I've said everything I wanted to say to them. I've 422 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 4: had all the conversations. I just don't I don't want 423 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:41,800 Speaker 4: to I don't want to do any of that anymore. 424 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,920 Speaker 4: I've said my goodbyes, I've made my piece of the situation. 425 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 4: This is why I'm taking this direction, I think, and 426 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,720 Speaker 4: everyone's different, but that's how she wanted to go out 427 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,560 Speaker 4: those were her terms that she wanted to go out on. 428 00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 1: And the people that you've sat with in those last 429 00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:04,160 Speaker 1: to feel free to ask a question, because this is fascinating. 430 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: The people that you sit with as they, you know, 431 00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 1: take their last breath and the you know they administered 432 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:20,439 Speaker 1: the drugs or whatever it is, are they did, I 433 00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: feel like I'd go, oh fuck, wait on, hang. 434 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 3: On, I'm not sure, like I'm not I'm not trying 435 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 3: to be a dickhead. 436 00:28:28,960 --> 00:28:29,720 Speaker 4: No, no, no, no. 437 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,080 Speaker 3: The people are they? They come? Are they? I'm sure 438 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 3: it's different. 439 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:41,200 Speaker 4: But yeah, it is different. And for the majority of 440 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 4: the ones that I've been involved in, it's been a 441 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 4: conscious and united choice by the individual and they've been 442 00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 4: supported by their family members because often in the settings 443 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 4: that I work in, the family have supported their loved 444 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:05,640 Speaker 4: one to quite and link the honest and just the 445 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 4: absolute marathon that can be medical and hospitalizations go on 446 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:17,280 Speaker 4: for you sometimes and can involve multiple different treatments and 447 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 4: can just be a really grueling journey, grueling for everyone 448 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 4: because not only does the individual patient go through it, 449 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,080 Speaker 4: to a person go through it, their loved ones go 450 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 4: through it with them exactly at the same time, and 451 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:39,320 Speaker 4: quite often with the loved ones. There is I'm not 452 00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 4: trying to diminish what the patient goes through, but it 453 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,000 Speaker 4: is torture in some instances to see your loved one 454 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,800 Speaker 4: in pain and suffering and you can't change. And that's 455 00:29:56,360 --> 00:29:58,360 Speaker 4: Those are a lot of the conversations that I have 456 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 4: with partners or cares or family members that often the 457 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:10,640 Speaker 4: words to me are, I can't do anything. I've got 458 00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 4: nothing to give. No. I think we need to look 459 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 4: at that a bit more closely. You're here, you're supporting them, 460 00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:27,800 Speaker 4: you're loving them, you are literally companioning them into their 461 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:32,960 Speaker 4: next next phase of life. You are actually giving them 462 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:37,320 Speaker 4: the greatest love of all because yes it's painful, Yes 463 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:41,160 Speaker 4: you'd rather they stay here, but you're putting that aside 464 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:46,160 Speaker 4: because this is where they need to go. You're showing up. 465 00:30:47,800 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 2: In those moments after Nikki for you. Do you feel sad? 466 00:30:55,120 --> 00:31:02,479 Speaker 4: It can depend on the circumstances give in that in 467 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:07,840 Speaker 4: some instances. But being such a ruling, drawn out road, 468 00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:15,840 Speaker 4: it's there's a sense of that they're not suffering anymore. 469 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 4: And and but more importantly than that, they've gone out 470 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 4: on their terms. They went out exactly as they wanted 471 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:33,280 Speaker 4: to and the privilege to be able to facilitate something 472 00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:38,960 Speaker 4: like that someone who's gone through an experience of being 473 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:46,200 Speaker 4: unwell to then have the capacity, autonomy, the power to say, 474 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 4: I'm choosing now, I'm choosing now, Because when you got 475 00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,840 Speaker 4: to treatment, yes you can choose if you want to 476 00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,720 Speaker 4: keep going and everything, but in treatment it's all on 477 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 4: you know, treatment and then the side effects. Managing that 478 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:08,840 Speaker 4: and managing the follow up. The surveillance is an absolute 479 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:14,520 Speaker 4: commitment and dedication of the person and the family. So 480 00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,440 Speaker 4: for them to then have that power of choice given 481 00:32:18,560 --> 00:32:25,600 Speaker 4: back to them to say I choose now, it's ordinary. 482 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:31,000 Speaker 2: And now of you, has it been a process of 483 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,120 Speaker 2: how do you protect you? How do you protect your 484 00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: emotional wellbeing? And things that might be brought up? 485 00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:46,920 Speaker 4: Yeah, of course unfortunate in the sense that I work 486 00:32:47,000 --> 00:32:51,959 Speaker 4: closely with my colleagues and so we can debrief with 487 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:58,440 Speaker 4: each other and support each other. And I have my 488 00:32:58,480 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 4: own sort of practices in my own life that's support 489 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:10,400 Speaker 4: and nurture my well being physically, mentally, and emotionally and spiritually. 490 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:18,440 Speaker 4: So in that sense, h whether this sounds bizarre or 491 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:26,239 Speaker 4: not for me, it's I wouldn't I choose to be there. 492 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:31,040 Speaker 4: If I can support someone in their choices, it's my 493 00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,360 Speaker 4: privilege to have any part in that. Yeah, And to 494 00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 4: facilitate someone being able to step into their own choice, 495 00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:44,040 Speaker 4: that is an absolute privilege and honor. 496 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:50,960 Speaker 2: I feel like similarly to the kind of resilience and 497 00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 2: adversity mindset, and I have a lot of those conversations 498 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,320 Speaker 2: that relate to boxing in the physical world as well, 499 00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:03,480 Speaker 2: but just makes me think of how the impact of 500 00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 2: what you see and go through and then how you 501 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:10,520 Speaker 2: process finding joy, Like I imagine if I'm wrong, that you 502 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 2: now have it an innate ability to find joy and 503 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:19,920 Speaker 2: beauty in really tough situations, and that is a gift. 504 00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 2: And I feel like if we could take insights from that, 505 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 2: that could be really powerful in life. 506 00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,520 Speaker 4: That's why I want to say, there are some instances 507 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,360 Speaker 4: where I just need to go and have a crime 508 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 4: because they just rip your heart out. And again it's 509 00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:50,040 Speaker 4: circumstance by circumstance. But overall, what I what I try 510 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:55,799 Speaker 4: to approach this role with is it's not about me. 511 00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,920 Speaker 4: It's about how can I be of service? How can 512 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 4: can I be of loving service? Here doesn't mean it's 513 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,719 Speaker 4: all hearts and rainbows because it's not because sometimes it's bloody, ugly, 514 00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 4: and it's rugged and it's painful. You know, it's just painful. 515 00:35:15,120 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 4: But having said that, I still see it as my 516 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 4: role to hold space for that and to give witness 517 00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 4: to that, give it the respect of bearing witness to it. 518 00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: Nick, can I ask sometimes when I'm listening, like I've 519 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:39,920 Speaker 1: been listening to YouTube for the last five and sitting 520 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: back more as a listener than a host, right, And 521 00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: then I think, if I was in the car listening 522 00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 1: to this, what would I want to ask? 523 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 3: Niki? 524 00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,839 Speaker 1: And maybe no one else would want to ask this, 525 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:54,840 Speaker 1: but I would want to ask you. If I just 526 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,000 Speaker 1: heard you and I didn't know you, I would want 527 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:03,400 Speaker 1: to hear what is your spiritual practice like? Could you 528 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,680 Speaker 1: I don't know if you're comfortable, and I'm sure it 529 00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: varies a bit day to day, but could you tell 530 00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:15,640 Speaker 1: us what that looks like for you in the real world, 531 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:21,120 Speaker 1: because I feel like, not only emotionally, mentally and practically 532 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 1: do you need to be ready, but you need to 533 00:36:24,520 --> 00:36:28,719 Speaker 1: be spiritually ready to do what you do to be 534 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,719 Speaker 1: as a functional and well as you are. So what 535 00:36:32,920 --> 00:36:46,120 Speaker 1: is your spiritual practice? If you could try to describe that, Yeah, it's. 536 00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:48,520 Speaker 4: An ongoing, evolving experience process. And the more I sort 537 00:36:48,560 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 4: of go along this road, the more I sort of 538 00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,680 Speaker 4: realized what I don't know, and that's not a bad thing. 539 00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:06,160 Speaker 4: More about being open and curious, and if I'm less 540 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 4: sort of baggage I bring to it, the more receptive 541 00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 4: hopefully I'll be to what is actually out there. And 542 00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 4: I know that probably sounds quite I know, airy fair, 543 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 4: and I don't mean it that way at all, because 544 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 4: for me, my spirituality is very much about you know, action, 545 00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 4: faith in action, you know, stepping into things that get 546 00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 4: the shit out of me. It's like, nah, you've put 547 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,640 Speaker 4: your hand up to be of service, then you go. 548 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 4: And so it can be quite gritty at times as well. 549 00:37:45,800 --> 00:37:51,200 Speaker 4: And then I sort of nourish my own self with 550 00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,800 Speaker 4: things like nature, with my meditation practices, my yoga practices, 551 00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 4: with the reiki that I practice. Being out in nature 552 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:09,680 Speaker 4: is it just soothes my soul. I don't know how 553 00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:13,160 Speaker 4: else to describe it. When I'm out in nature, everything 554 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:19,000 Speaker 4: else just slips away and I just become present what's 555 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,239 Speaker 4: around all of us. You know, the sort of the 556 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 4: noise in my head just get a little bit quieter. 557 00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:32,320 Speaker 4: And it's like open your ears, open your eyes, open 558 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:35,359 Speaker 4: your heart to what is here for all of us, 559 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,360 Speaker 4: right here, right now. I'm not special, I'm not anyone 560 00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,479 Speaker 4: different at all. I'm just doing this human gig too. 561 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:51,800 Speaker 4: But I guess I have an intention of being open 562 00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,880 Speaker 4: to and growing my awareness of what can't I see, 563 00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,720 Speaker 4: what can't I necessarily touch, but what what I believe 564 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 4: is out there? And I don't know what it is 565 00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 4: that's out there, but I in my heart, I believe 566 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:12,520 Speaker 4: there's something greater than all this that is out there, 567 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:16,960 Speaker 4: and that's for me. Hopefully that will be a lifelong 568 00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,080 Speaker 4: curiosity and journey and navigation. 569 00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:25,839 Speaker 3: And well, and I love it. 570 00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,040 Speaker 4: And no one's got to handle on it. No one's 571 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 4: got to handle on it's this or it's that. We've 572 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 4: all got ideas, and you know, we all need to 573 00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,120 Speaker 4: have those things that help us to feel comfortable with 574 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,760 Speaker 4: our own values and our own practices. And I understand 575 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,920 Speaker 4: that and I have them myself. But I think also 576 00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 4: for me, as I got continue to go along, it's 577 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:50,879 Speaker 4: like what do I need to let go of? Here? 578 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,600 Speaker 4: What do I need to let go of? Yes? I 579 00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:58,520 Speaker 4: like that because it makes me feel comfortable and fixed 580 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:04,480 Speaker 4: in with it, I think, But is it actually just 581 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:06,440 Speaker 4: is that purely I hold on to it because it's 582 00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,240 Speaker 4: purely selfish or fear based or pride based or whatever. 583 00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 4: Or is it Am I really willing to show up 584 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:20,360 Speaker 4: and stand naked, eat an open be an open hard 585 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,320 Speaker 4: I should say? 586 00:40:22,160 --> 00:40:28,200 Speaker 3: Hm, wow, wow, so good, so good. 587 00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: I just get a little bit lost sitting there, thinking 588 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:33,800 Speaker 1: I don't feel like a host anymore. 589 00:40:33,840 --> 00:40:35,200 Speaker 3: I feel like a student. 590 00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:42,080 Speaker 4: I've had this most beautiful saying, we're all just walking 591 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:43,120 Speaker 4: each other home. 592 00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:45,479 Speaker 3: Oh God, don't make me cry. 593 00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:48,840 Speaker 4: The most beautiful thing. But that's what we're all doing. 594 00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,959 Speaker 4: We're all just walking at each other home. 595 00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:55,719 Speaker 3: Wow. I wonder what home looks like exactly. 596 00:40:55,760 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: I want to thank you for jumping on because we 597 00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:02,480 Speaker 1: had somebody out and I buzzed you on very short 598 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 1: notice and said, could you have a chat to us? 599 00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: I said, I'm not sure what about Really, we had 600 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 1: an idea, we didn't do the idea, and this was 601 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:13,960 Speaker 1: much This was much better than my fucking dumb idea. 602 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 4: No anytime. 603 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,319 Speaker 1: Thank you, Nick, stay there, we'll say goodbye off air. 604 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:25,759 Speaker 1: But Tiff, thank you, Nikki, thank you. 605 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. 606 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,560 Speaker 3: Tiff, thank you all right, thanks ladies.