1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,801 Speaker 1: Appoche production. 2 00:00:10,201 --> 00:00:13,081 Speaker 2: A warning this episode contains graphic detail of child abuse. 3 00:00:13,441 --> 00:00:17,521 Speaker 2: Listener discretion is advised. Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. 4 00:00:17,721 --> 00:00:20,601 Speaker 2: I am Neil the Muscle comments in this episode. I 5 00:00:20,601 --> 00:00:23,441 Speaker 2: speak to Jordan Stevenson, whose husband was arrested and jailed 6 00:00:23,441 --> 00:00:26,001 Speaker 2: by the FBI for doing the unthinkable to. 7 00:00:25,961 --> 00:00:30,281 Speaker 3: His own child National Center for Missing and Exploited Children 8 00:00:30,561 --> 00:00:33,681 Speaker 3: gotten alert from Snapchat and discord. There was not even 9 00:00:33,721 --> 00:00:36,521 Speaker 3: a thought. It was an immediate panic attack because I 10 00:00:36,521 --> 00:00:39,241 Speaker 3: couldn't rade. I'm like, why did he run? I do 11 00:00:39,361 --> 00:00:44,481 Speaker 3: not want to dine of their disgusting, nasty money. In 12 00:00:44,521 --> 00:00:48,601 Speaker 3: that trading process of trading our daughter for whoever else, 13 00:00:49,521 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 3: there were obviously other victims. 14 00:00:51,361 --> 00:00:59,801 Speaker 4: So let's talk about you first, you know, family wise, 15 00:00:59,881 --> 00:01:04,321 Speaker 4: growing up, you know, job wise, and how you got 16 00:01:04,321 --> 00:01:04,961 Speaker 4: to be. 17 00:01:06,561 --> 00:01:12,160 Speaker 5: So. I am originally from California, the San Francisco Bay 18 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:17,440 Speaker 5: area about our north Sonoma. That's where I'm from Wine Country. 19 00:01:18,601 --> 00:01:22,681 Speaker 5: We left California when I was around ten, I believe 20 00:01:22,761 --> 00:01:25,401 Speaker 5: I can't remember exactly how old I was, but we 21 00:01:25,521 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 5: ended up moving to Montana. My family and so I 22 00:01:29,041 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 5: lived in Montana throughout my high school years and I 23 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,441 Speaker 5: went to college there, but we ended up moving. I 24 00:01:35,481 --> 00:01:41,321 Speaker 5: met my ex, I went to high school, went to college. 25 00:01:41,441 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 5: I was working as like a server bartender for a 26 00:01:44,041 --> 00:01:46,121 Speaker 5: very long time. I had worked in the restaurant industry 27 00:01:46,161 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 5: since I was like, I don't know, fifteen, So I 28 00:01:50,801 --> 00:01:53,401 Speaker 5: worked my way up through all the ranks, and then 29 00:01:53,441 --> 00:01:55,881 Speaker 5: at eighteen, I became a bartender, and I was like, yes, 30 00:01:57,521 --> 00:02:00,041 Speaker 5: it was so cool for me because in Montana you 31 00:02:00,121 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 5: only have to be like eighteen and so. And at 32 00:02:03,161 --> 00:02:05,801 Speaker 5: that same time, we ended up the place, the small 33 00:02:05,841 --> 00:02:08,681 Speaker 5: place I was working, this little teeny tiny casino. We 34 00:02:08,841 --> 00:02:11,361 Speaker 5: ended up getting a liquor license, and so I was like, 35 00:02:12,721 --> 00:02:14,961 Speaker 5: so my friends would all come see me, and I 36 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 5: would like drinks, but I couldn't taste them. Of them 37 00:02:18,881 --> 00:02:21,281 Speaker 5: taste them to help me build up my birth sales. 38 00:02:21,361 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 5: So that's kind of where I was at. And then 39 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 5: I got into I took a position. See in twenty seventeen, 40 00:02:28,441 --> 00:02:32,041 Speaker 5: I actually moved back to California. I took a job 41 00:02:32,081 --> 00:02:34,681 Speaker 5: as a behavior technician. I had never worked in that 42 00:02:34,761 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 5: field before, and I really loved that. But I ended 43 00:02:38,121 --> 00:02:41,401 Speaker 5: up moving back to Montana and I ended up taking 44 00:02:41,401 --> 00:02:44,281 Speaker 5: a job as like a mental health tech where I 45 00:02:44,321 --> 00:02:49,241 Speaker 5: worked with kids with like many, many, many different like 46 00:02:50,201 --> 00:02:53,881 Speaker 5: mental health issues. It's just different. With mental health. I 47 00:02:53,921 --> 00:02:56,321 Speaker 5: get to you know, work one on one and build 48 00:02:56,401 --> 00:03:00,641 Speaker 5: that like therapeutic relationship with kids, and I really love that. 49 00:03:01,281 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 5: So I was really successful with you know, building relationships 50 00:03:06,601 --> 00:03:08,561 Speaker 5: with a lot of those kids who ended up you know, 51 00:03:09,321 --> 00:03:11,841 Speaker 5: being released from the facility. They were out at the time, 52 00:03:12,281 --> 00:03:17,921 Speaker 5: so it was really cool. But I did go. I 53 00:03:18,001 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 5: was there for three two and a half years, I think, 54 00:03:22,561 --> 00:03:27,241 Speaker 5: and went back and took another job. So I was 55 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:29,601 Speaker 5: working a full time job and a part time job, 56 00:03:29,921 --> 00:03:34,401 Speaker 5: so part time I was serving full time doing mental 57 00:03:34,441 --> 00:03:40,201 Speaker 5: health work. I ended up so I had a pregnancy, 58 00:03:42,601 --> 00:03:48,441 Speaker 5: not through this X but a different one my son's dad, 59 00:03:50,921 --> 00:03:55,961 Speaker 5: and at our twenty week anatomy scan, our son had 60 00:03:56,161 --> 00:03:59,761 Speaker 5: a neural tooth condition that was exasperated by amniotic band syndrome. 61 00:04:01,161 --> 00:04:03,001 Speaker 5: So they told us, you know, it was kind of 62 00:04:03,081 --> 00:04:05,761 Speaker 5: a rare thing, the combination the two, and it was 63 00:04:05,841 --> 00:04:09,281 Speaker 5: unlikely he would survive. I think they said something like 64 00:04:09,281 --> 00:04:12,961 Speaker 5: the one other child that had a specific disease, he 65 00:04:13,321 --> 00:04:16,561 Speaker 5: was alive for like a year. But they told me, 66 00:04:16,761 --> 00:04:20,161 Speaker 5: like we'd have to move to the children's hospital and 67 00:04:20,201 --> 00:04:22,841 Speaker 5: like live there as far, like as long as our 68 00:04:22,841 --> 00:04:25,721 Speaker 5: son lived. And when they're telling me all of this, 69 00:04:26,361 --> 00:04:30,681 Speaker 5: I'm like, well, this sounds not good for anybody, you know. 70 00:04:30,841 --> 00:04:33,561 Speaker 5: And they were telling me your son will be in pain, 71 00:04:34,201 --> 00:04:37,201 Speaker 5: he'll be blind, death, he'll never know who you guys are, 72 00:04:38,041 --> 00:04:41,441 Speaker 5: And so I'm like, Okay, well then I don't want 73 00:04:41,481 --> 00:04:42,880 Speaker 5: to do that to him. I don't want to do 74 00:04:42,921 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 5: that to us. Financially, that would put us in a 75 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 5: horrible place. Emotionally, that would put us in a horrible place. 76 00:04:51,161 --> 00:04:55,041 Speaker 5: So I elected to deliver early. And I knew when 77 00:04:55,041 --> 00:04:59,001 Speaker 5: I delivered that he wasn't going to, you know, survive birth. 78 00:04:59,241 --> 00:05:04,801 Speaker 5: I knew that, but that was a very very traumatic thing, 79 00:05:05,161 --> 00:05:08,241 Speaker 5: and I didn't The option of getting a DNC was 80 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 5: offered to me, and I said no because and not 81 00:05:11,601 --> 00:05:14,681 Speaker 5: because I have anything against it. And I feel like, actually, 82 00:05:15,041 --> 00:05:16,601 Speaker 5: if I could go back, I might have done it 83 00:05:16,601 --> 00:05:21,440 Speaker 5: a different way. But it was because my son I 84 00:05:21,561 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 5: was far enough along, you know that, really, like I 85 00:05:25,681 --> 00:05:27,361 Speaker 5: wanted to be able to hold him. I wanted to 86 00:05:27,361 --> 00:05:29,361 Speaker 5: be able to have like the gift box so that 87 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:31,401 Speaker 5: I could have all the things like I have his 88 00:05:31,521 --> 00:05:35,001 Speaker 5: hand prints and from his handprints. I actually got him 89 00:05:35,001 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 5: like tattooed on me, and so I wanted to be 90 00:05:38,401 --> 00:05:40,921 Speaker 5: able to have that because he was, you know, more 91 00:05:40,961 --> 00:05:45,520 Speaker 5: to me at that point. So but I but I 92 00:05:45,561 --> 00:05:48,641 Speaker 5: do feel like if I could go back, I think 93 00:05:48,721 --> 00:05:51,921 Speaker 5: I would do it a little bit differently, just because 94 00:05:52,761 --> 00:05:55,721 Speaker 5: you know, we were. It traumatized me, to traumatize my 95 00:05:55,761 --> 00:05:59,961 Speaker 5: son's dad. It traumatized both our families. My son was 96 00:06:00,001 --> 00:06:03,001 Speaker 5: born with like sixty percent of his brain exposed. It 97 00:06:03,161 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 5: was horrible, horrible. So because of that experience and my 98 00:06:11,521 --> 00:06:14,401 Speaker 5: son's dead, and I ended up splitting up after that 99 00:06:14,481 --> 00:06:20,600 Speaker 5: whole experience, I ended up being like, Okay, I'm working 100 00:06:20,641 --> 00:06:22,681 Speaker 5: these two jobs and living in this apartment where all 101 00:06:22,721 --> 00:06:26,361 Speaker 5: of this stuff happened. I need to change everything, Okay, 102 00:06:26,841 --> 00:06:29,441 Speaker 5: So I quit all my jobs. I was like, see it. 103 00:06:30,161 --> 00:06:32,481 Speaker 5: And I took a different job out of a golf 104 00:06:32,481 --> 00:06:35,721 Speaker 5: course because I was like, yeah, golf course money, it's 105 00:06:35,761 --> 00:06:41,361 Speaker 5: summer cool. I went in and I was waiting for 106 00:06:41,481 --> 00:06:43,840 Speaker 5: the manager because I think we were filling out paperwork 107 00:06:43,921 --> 00:06:47,440 Speaker 5: or something like that, and the first person I saw 108 00:06:48,241 --> 00:06:52,921 Speaker 5: was my ex tie and he asked me, you know, 109 00:06:53,721 --> 00:06:58,520 Speaker 5: are you here for Tammy? And I was like yeah, 110 00:06:58,601 --> 00:07:02,001 Speaker 5: and then he's like cool and he like left, but 111 00:07:02,121 --> 00:07:03,881 Speaker 5: I saw him and I was like, oh my god, 112 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,921 Speaker 5: like he's very very conventionally attractive, and so I was like, 113 00:07:07,961 --> 00:07:11,401 Speaker 5: that's pretty pretty interesting. I even like texted my aunt 114 00:07:11,481 --> 00:07:13,601 Speaker 5: and like I think it was my aunt and like 115 00:07:13,641 --> 00:07:14,921 Speaker 5: a couple of my friends. I was like, I'm pretty 116 00:07:14,921 --> 00:07:18,961 Speaker 5: sure I just like met my future husband. Yeah, I know, 117 00:07:19,161 --> 00:07:26,241 Speaker 5: he like he's wonderful. Was he presented wonderful? Let me 118 00:07:26,761 --> 00:07:28,720 Speaker 5: let me say that, and let me make that clear 119 00:07:29,161 --> 00:07:33,121 Speaker 5: before if I referenced like he was this, he was that, 120 00:07:33,241 --> 00:07:36,441 Speaker 5: and it's anything positive. This is from my perspective of 121 00:07:36,481 --> 00:07:39,801 Speaker 5: not knowing. I had no idea this whole other thing. 122 00:07:40,001 --> 00:07:42,081 Speaker 5: And I know people you know on the internet, they 123 00:07:42,161 --> 00:07:45,761 Speaker 5: all jump down my throat, but it's like there is 124 00:07:45,881 --> 00:07:48,401 Speaker 5: actually a ton of nuance here because I didn't know. 125 00:07:49,001 --> 00:07:53,361 Speaker 5: So if you I can only speak from initially what 126 00:07:53,441 --> 00:07:56,041 Speaker 5: was presented to me, and then now that I have 127 00:07:56,201 --> 00:07:59,161 Speaker 5: this other information, I can go back. And that's really 128 00:07:59,201 --> 00:08:01,401 Speaker 5: been That's really been what my life has been the 129 00:08:01,481 --> 00:08:04,961 Speaker 5: last year, and some is just really trying to put 130 00:08:05,201 --> 00:08:08,681 Speaker 5: the pieces together because I, you know, had no idea. 131 00:08:08,761 --> 00:08:11,681 Speaker 5: But anyways, that is when I first met him, and 132 00:08:12,001 --> 00:08:16,601 Speaker 5: he was the assistant golf professional at the golf course, 133 00:08:16,641 --> 00:08:18,761 Speaker 5: and then I ended up being one of the bartenders, 134 00:08:18,841 --> 00:08:22,521 Speaker 5: so saw him a lot. You know, what was he like? 135 00:08:23,961 --> 00:08:27,481 Speaker 5: TI had this confidence about him that I think was 136 00:08:27,521 --> 00:08:34,041 Speaker 5: really good question. I think that like the way he 137 00:08:34,161 --> 00:08:36,721 Speaker 5: carried himself was unlike what I've seen before because he 138 00:08:36,761 --> 00:08:40,601 Speaker 5: wasn't cocky. Yeah, he was very very confident, and it 139 00:08:40,721 --> 00:08:45,361 Speaker 5: wasn't something I was used to seeing in other people 140 00:08:45,441 --> 00:08:48,801 Speaker 5: at all. I lived in an area in Montana that's 141 00:08:48,841 --> 00:08:52,321 Speaker 5: like the meth capital of the world, so a lot 142 00:08:52,361 --> 00:08:55,321 Speaker 5: of people had addiction issues. That was just kind of 143 00:08:55,401 --> 00:08:58,601 Speaker 5: part of the course, unintended while we were out like 144 00:08:58,881 --> 00:09:00,841 Speaker 5: when we were living out there, so I didn't I've 145 00:09:00,841 --> 00:09:03,441 Speaker 5: never really met someone that kind of held himself the 146 00:09:03,481 --> 00:09:06,681 Speaker 5: way he did, and so I found him interesting. And 147 00:09:06,961 --> 00:09:10,241 Speaker 5: I think part of it was he wasn't from Montana either, 148 00:09:10,321 --> 00:09:12,521 Speaker 5: so he didn't know any of the people I knew, 149 00:09:13,241 --> 00:09:18,641 Speaker 5: and and he was He's a phenomenal golfer. He should 150 00:09:18,641 --> 00:09:21,481 Speaker 5: have been on tour, and he wanted to go on 151 00:09:21,561 --> 00:09:26,601 Speaker 5: tour and he should have done that. I I have 152 00:09:26,641 --> 00:09:29,041 Speaker 5: some pretty strong golfers in my family. None of them 153 00:09:29,481 --> 00:09:34,721 Speaker 5: none of them be ted. He's very, very very talented 154 00:09:36,241 --> 00:09:37,921 Speaker 5: in that. So I think everybody kind of thought he 155 00:09:38,041 --> 00:09:41,401 Speaker 5: was cool for that portion of you know, he's an athlete, 156 00:09:41,481 --> 00:09:44,521 Speaker 5: he's cool, he's starm ms blah blah blah. 157 00:09:44,561 --> 00:09:47,241 Speaker 1: So is he always good with kids? Like kids? 158 00:09:48,321 --> 00:09:54,081 Speaker 5: He has ten nieces and nephews ten, He's got, you know, 159 00:09:54,121 --> 00:09:58,641 Speaker 5: a conservative family, his sister he has three sisters, got 160 00:09:59,201 --> 00:10:03,161 Speaker 5: this very traditional family with you know, lots of kids. 161 00:10:03,281 --> 00:10:09,841 Speaker 5: And yeah, he he seemed great. 162 00:10:11,721 --> 00:10:15,041 Speaker 1: Did he ever? Was he ever like moody physical? No, 163 00:10:15,641 --> 00:10:15,961 Speaker 1: it was. 164 00:10:17,801 --> 00:10:24,361 Speaker 5: No, No, he was fine. I I would say, I 165 00:10:24,361 --> 00:10:27,081 Speaker 5: think he reminded me of my dad in some sense 166 00:10:27,121 --> 00:10:31,521 Speaker 5: because he didn't really ever get mad. It takes it 167 00:10:31,521 --> 00:10:34,881 Speaker 5: would it would get It takes a long time to 168 00:10:34,881 --> 00:10:37,761 Speaker 5: get him mad, you know what I mean, Like if 169 00:10:37,801 --> 00:10:39,801 Speaker 5: something would have to be building for a very long 170 00:10:39,841 --> 00:10:44,561 Speaker 5: time and then it's like, you know, it's not like yelling, 171 00:10:45,201 --> 00:10:48,121 Speaker 5: but even then it's like, raise your voice very pointed. 172 00:10:48,721 --> 00:10:52,321 Speaker 5: It's not it's not yelling, it's not you know, all 173 00:10:52,361 --> 00:10:56,721 Speaker 5: of these weird things he was. He seemed fine. He 174 00:10:56,881 --> 00:11:01,361 Speaker 5: seems normal. There's nothing about him that screams you know, 175 00:11:02,121 --> 00:11:03,321 Speaker 5: I'm a psycho. 176 00:11:05,241 --> 00:11:08,881 Speaker 4: Now before we get into everything that's happened, there's nothing 177 00:11:08,921 --> 00:11:10,161 Speaker 4: you can look back on to. 178 00:11:10,201 --> 00:11:14,121 Speaker 1: Go, shit, there's a red flag. There's a red flag. 179 00:11:14,281 --> 00:11:22,921 Speaker 5: No, no, because everything he everything about him was pretty 180 00:11:23,521 --> 00:11:30,921 Speaker 5: easily explainable, like oh he, I would say it seemed 181 00:11:30,961 --> 00:11:33,241 Speaker 5: like he was a little controlling, but not even in 182 00:11:33,281 --> 00:11:38,041 Speaker 5: a traditional sense, not not where not where he wouldn't 183 00:11:38,161 --> 00:11:40,721 Speaker 5: let me hang out like not that way, just like 184 00:11:40,801 --> 00:11:43,281 Speaker 5: it seemed like he wanted to be right a lot 185 00:11:43,321 --> 00:11:45,921 Speaker 5: of the time, and he wanted, you know, to be 186 00:11:46,041 --> 00:11:51,201 Speaker 5: able to have like a lot of a say in 187 00:11:51,361 --> 00:11:57,481 Speaker 5: things versus like sharing that say, and like working collaboratively 188 00:11:57,681 --> 00:12:01,881 Speaker 5: as like is that word as a as a team. 189 00:12:02,201 --> 00:12:10,321 Speaker 5: And so I would say, like maybe that, but because. 190 00:12:10,241 --> 00:12:15,041 Speaker 4: Like I'm trying, I'm trying to put my head I'm 191 00:12:15,041 --> 00:12:18,081 Speaker 4: just trying to put my head around it to go 192 00:12:18,201 --> 00:12:21,681 Speaker 4: like if this was me, like I'd be just constantly 193 00:12:21,721 --> 00:12:25,481 Speaker 4: going backwards and backwards and forwards, trying to go is 194 00:12:25,521 --> 00:12:28,801 Speaker 4: the something every from every month to every day, just 195 00:12:28,841 --> 00:12:30,161 Speaker 4: to see if there was something. 196 00:12:29,841 --> 00:12:34,121 Speaker 5: That could go same. I go through that every single day. 197 00:12:34,161 --> 00:12:38,001 Speaker 5: So I actually was diagnosed ADHD recently. So if I 198 00:12:38,041 --> 00:12:43,081 Speaker 5: trail off on things, there's why. But when I was 199 00:12:43,121 --> 00:12:48,601 Speaker 5: diagnosed with ADHD, she also diagnosed me with some like 200 00:12:48,641 --> 00:12:54,921 Speaker 5: dissociative episodes, which basically just means I'm somewhere else and 201 00:12:55,361 --> 00:12:57,681 Speaker 5: this has a lot to do with like my PTSD, 202 00:12:58,361 --> 00:13:00,441 Speaker 5: so I will have flashbacks. I mean, I still live 203 00:13:00,441 --> 00:13:04,281 Speaker 5: in the same apartment where everything happened. So I very 204 00:13:04,321 --> 00:13:08,081 Speaker 5: much so struggle with like PTSD and going back through 205 00:13:08,121 --> 00:13:11,961 Speaker 5: these things, trying to piece every day and like what happened, 206 00:13:12,641 --> 00:13:16,361 Speaker 5: and and it just doesn't it doesn't make sense. I 207 00:13:16,361 --> 00:13:18,961 Speaker 5: think there's just some answers I'm never going to get 208 00:13:19,001 --> 00:13:22,961 Speaker 5: because even if I asked him, how would I know 209 00:13:23,041 --> 00:13:26,721 Speaker 5: that it's the truth? You know, Like how I don't 210 00:13:26,721 --> 00:13:29,841 Speaker 5: even know? And I believe more and more every day 211 00:13:29,881 --> 00:13:32,601 Speaker 5: that he's actually a little bit delusional. And I know 212 00:13:32,721 --> 00:13:35,361 Speaker 5: Delulu is like a funny thing, and I've actually done 213 00:13:35,721 --> 00:13:40,641 Speaker 5: segments on my ex's Delulu or like like playlists on TikTok, 214 00:13:41,401 --> 00:13:43,641 Speaker 5: But I actually do think he is a little bit 215 00:13:43,641 --> 00:13:47,961 Speaker 5: delusional without the joke, Like he's not a joke, he's 216 00:13:48,001 --> 00:13:55,601 Speaker 5: actually delusional. And yeah, I just didn't I didn't catch anything. 217 00:13:56,441 --> 00:13:59,321 Speaker 5: He I mean, the times that he was on his phone, 218 00:13:59,441 --> 00:14:01,761 Speaker 5: he was always playing like video games, like he was 219 00:14:01,841 --> 00:14:03,721 Speaker 5: a video game guy. And we didn't even play some 220 00:14:03,761 --> 00:14:08,921 Speaker 5: of them together. It wasn't anything weird at all. 221 00:14:09,641 --> 00:14:10,801 Speaker 1: How how was he? 222 00:14:15,481 --> 00:14:22,521 Speaker 5: Man? So I really struggled after my daughter's birth, uh, 223 00:14:22,761 --> 00:14:29,481 Speaker 5: postpartum depression. I really struggled. And he was amazing, not 224 00:14:29,481 --> 00:14:33,521 Speaker 5: not necessarily like with me, and and not that he wasn't, 225 00:14:33,561 --> 00:14:37,601 Speaker 5: but like not necessarily with but with her. He when 226 00:14:37,641 --> 00:14:40,801 Speaker 5: I was just having a really rough go, I got 227 00:14:40,801 --> 00:14:45,041 Speaker 5: a post up infection again. So I was really really 228 00:14:45,081 --> 00:14:50,841 Speaker 5: sick again after my daughter's birth as well. And he 229 00:14:50,921 --> 00:14:56,881 Speaker 5: did phenomenal with her. She loved him. She would like 230 00:14:57,041 --> 00:15:01,321 Speaker 5: fall asleep on his chest and and that was like 231 00:15:02,161 --> 00:15:04,561 Speaker 5: a thing, and like she fall asleep on mine. So 232 00:15:04,601 --> 00:15:06,281 Speaker 5: we'd be like on the couch and she'd be like, 233 00:15:06,521 --> 00:15:11,801 Speaker 5: you know, and he was amazing. And I don't there 234 00:15:11,961 --> 00:15:18,841 Speaker 5: was no he I don't think he ever even like no, 235 00:15:19,001 --> 00:15:22,161 Speaker 5: he didn't even ever do anything that was like like 236 00:15:22,201 --> 00:15:26,161 Speaker 5: he was pretty on top of it. He he did great. 237 00:15:26,441 --> 00:15:29,441 Speaker 5: And so then she got a little bit older. He 238 00:15:29,561 --> 00:15:33,841 Speaker 5: was genuinely excited, you know. He was like, we're gonna 239 00:15:33,881 --> 00:15:36,321 Speaker 5: go do this, and I'm gonna take her camping someday, 240 00:15:36,521 --> 00:15:38,001 Speaker 5: and I'm going to teach her how to play golf, 241 00:15:38,121 --> 00:15:40,521 Speaker 5: and we can get her these plastic like toddler golf 242 00:15:40,561 --> 00:15:43,041 Speaker 5: clubs so that I can like teach and they would 243 00:15:43,081 --> 00:15:44,921 Speaker 5: take out, you know, he had a bunch of golf clubs, 244 00:15:44,921 --> 00:15:46,561 Speaker 5: and he would take them out with her when she 245 00:15:46,641 --> 00:15:49,401 Speaker 5: was around like one and a half two, and they 246 00:15:49,441 --> 00:15:53,081 Speaker 5: would be like playing like he was awesome with her. 247 00:15:53,361 --> 00:15:57,521 Speaker 5: And during the summer, even prior to his arrest, the 248 00:15:57,601 --> 00:15:59,961 Speaker 5: summer leading up to that, you know, they went to 249 00:16:00,001 --> 00:16:02,961 Speaker 5: the pool every day. They were having the best time. 250 00:16:03,081 --> 00:16:05,321 Speaker 5: She was always so happy when he would I'm home 251 00:16:05,361 --> 00:16:11,761 Speaker 5: from work like that, and she loved She loved him 252 00:16:11,801 --> 00:16:14,681 Speaker 5: so much and she still does. So that's tough. 253 00:16:16,161 --> 00:16:19,481 Speaker 4: Tell me about the day you got the phone calls, Yeah, 254 00:16:19,601 --> 00:16:23,241 Speaker 4: that would be insane. 255 00:16:23,521 --> 00:16:27,521 Speaker 3: Yeah. So it was a Monday morning. I went to work. 256 00:16:28,441 --> 00:16:31,601 Speaker 3: I had a client. I remember I got like a 257 00:16:31,641 --> 00:16:35,881 Speaker 3: Wendy's salad because I had like a ten minute window 258 00:16:36,521 --> 00:16:39,001 Speaker 3: to eat lunch. So I remember I had a Wendy's 259 00:16:39,001 --> 00:16:45,361 Speaker 3: salad and so like weirdly relevant. But I went in 260 00:16:45,641 --> 00:16:49,041 Speaker 3: and I was there for all of about I want 261 00:16:49,041 --> 00:16:52,841 Speaker 3: to say, thirty minutes before I got a couple calls 262 00:16:52,921 --> 00:16:56,641 Speaker 3: from an unknown number or not unknown unknown to me, 263 00:16:56,761 --> 00:16:59,801 Speaker 3: but Charlotte area phone number. And I was like, I 264 00:16:59,841 --> 00:17:02,361 Speaker 3: don't know anyone over there, so I'll call him back. 265 00:17:02,361 --> 00:17:06,321 Speaker 3: They'll leave a message. I'm like, maybe I forgot to 266 00:17:06,761 --> 00:17:08,681 Speaker 3: maybe I forgot to pay the power bill, like maybe 267 00:17:08,761 --> 00:17:11,440 Speaker 3: it's maybe something like that, Like I don't know. I 268 00:17:11,521 --> 00:17:15,121 Speaker 3: answered the call. I can't even remember the guy's name. 269 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 3: I wish I remembered, but he introduced himself as you know, 270 00:17:22,761 --> 00:17:29,841 Speaker 3: blah blah blah FBI agent. He said that they were 271 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 3: at my home executing a search warrant. He said that 272 00:17:34,880 --> 00:17:38,880 Speaker 3: I needed to come back. I asked. I was very panicked. 273 00:17:39,241 --> 00:17:41,600 Speaker 3: I remember I walked. I was standing in my client's 274 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,241 Speaker 3: kitchen when I got the call, but I walked out 275 00:17:43,281 --> 00:17:48,640 Speaker 3: to their front steps obviously to take that call. And 276 00:17:49,041 --> 00:17:51,801 Speaker 3: I remember he told I was like, you know, is 277 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,561 Speaker 3: my daughter okay? And he was like, yeah, I have 278 00:17:54,640 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 3: your daughter and tie right here and they're fine. He's like, 279 00:17:57,721 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 3: we just need you to come back, and he was 280 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:06,281 Speaker 3: very nonchalant, like it was chill, and I of course 281 00:18:06,481 --> 00:18:08,321 Speaker 3: wasn't all that chill. And I was like, of course, 282 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:10,121 Speaker 3: I'm ten minutes away, I will be right there. 283 00:18:10,201 --> 00:18:12,561 Speaker 1: You know what's going for your head? Though at the moment, 284 00:18:12,721 --> 00:18:16,041 Speaker 1: like what's going for your head? FBI? 285 00:18:16,521 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 3: Nothing. 286 00:18:17,201 --> 00:18:18,801 Speaker 4: If the coop is ring me, I'm just going, oh, 287 00:18:18,801 --> 00:18:22,761 Speaker 4: maybe it's something's like broken in, but the FBI is massive. 288 00:18:22,441 --> 00:18:27,321 Speaker 3: News, so no, I know. I was like, I was like, 289 00:18:27,921 --> 00:18:30,280 Speaker 3: is this because I watched True Crime? Like what is 290 00:18:30,321 --> 00:18:35,160 Speaker 3: the issue? And so I like, which is the dumbest thought. 291 00:18:35,321 --> 00:18:38,561 Speaker 3: But he was so nonchalant. He even told me when 292 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:40,001 Speaker 3: I told him i'd be there in like ten minutes, 293 00:18:40,001 --> 00:18:43,001 Speaker 3: he was like, okay, like don't like, don't speak or anything, 294 00:18:43,721 --> 00:18:48,401 Speaker 3: and it was like a casual conversation for him. 295 00:18:48,241 --> 00:18:50,840 Speaker 1: As is his job. 296 00:18:50,921 --> 00:18:55,481 Speaker 3: But I'm like, this is yeah. So I'm driving back. 297 00:18:55,561 --> 00:18:58,041 Speaker 3: I don't even know what's going like I think my 298 00:18:58,120 --> 00:19:01,640 Speaker 3: mind is just like like like, what's going on? What 299 00:19:01,721 --> 00:19:04,721 Speaker 3: could possibly like have because I'm not someone who gets 300 00:19:06,041 --> 00:19:11,561 Speaker 3: And so I'm driving towards my unit and there's no 301 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 3: cop cars nine and so I'm like the hell what 302 00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:18,921 Speaker 3: is going on? And so I get to the front 303 00:19:18,921 --> 00:19:25,960 Speaker 3: of my building, I pull up my Wendy Salad is unheaten, 304 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 3: and I'm getting out of my car. I'm trying to 305 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:31,120 Speaker 3: get my stuff. I can't get it, so I'm just like, 306 00:19:31,201 --> 00:19:34,360 Speaker 3: fuck it, I'll get it later. So I try to 307 00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:37,401 Speaker 3: get out of my car. Right when I open the door, 308 00:19:37,441 --> 00:19:39,921 Speaker 3: to agents and an unmarked car pop out and come 309 00:19:39,961 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 3: over to me, flash me their badges, and you know, 310 00:19:45,321 --> 00:19:47,921 Speaker 3: they're like, lock your door, lock your door. And this 311 00:19:48,001 --> 00:19:50,720 Speaker 3: is the male agent that said that there's a female agent. 312 00:19:51,001 --> 00:19:53,121 Speaker 3: But the male agent lock the door, locked your door. 313 00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,640 Speaker 3: So I locked my car door. But I was kind 314 00:19:55,681 --> 00:19:58,201 Speaker 3: of like, wait, why, like what's going on? And they 315 00:19:58,201 --> 00:20:03,521 Speaker 3: told me, you know, ty ran, and then I just 316 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:06,640 Speaker 3: don't even there was not even a thought. It was 317 00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 3: an immediate panic attack. 318 00:20:08,721 --> 00:20:08,920 Speaker 5: You know. 319 00:20:09,321 --> 00:20:12,921 Speaker 3: It was like because I couldn't breathe. I'm like, why 320 00:20:12,921 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 3: did he run? And it was it was just like 321 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,041 Speaker 3: I couldn't breathe. I was having a hard time walking. 322 00:20:22,321 --> 00:20:25,921 Speaker 3: So the female agent was, you know, kind of holding 323 00:20:25,961 --> 00:20:31,720 Speaker 3: me up. No. I asked him. I'm like, what's going on? 324 00:20:32,041 --> 00:20:34,160 Speaker 3: And they're like, okay, we're gonna just like it's okay. Everything, 325 00:20:34,241 --> 00:20:37,321 Speaker 3: You're gonna see your daughter, it's all fine. Like the woman, 326 00:20:37,481 --> 00:20:39,761 Speaker 3: I honestly wish I knew who she was, because she 327 00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:42,920 Speaker 3: was honestly amazing. She was so sweet and so helpful. 328 00:20:42,961 --> 00:20:47,081 Speaker 3: But we come in. I see my daughter. Okay, she's 329 00:20:47,080 --> 00:20:49,801 Speaker 3: sitting with like she said, we had this little circle 330 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:53,481 Speaker 3: table and she's sitting at this table with like three 331 00:20:53,721 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 3: FBI agents and like playing with their badges and like 332 00:20:57,281 --> 00:21:00,041 Speaker 3: or whatever on the table. And then I so I 333 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:02,400 Speaker 3: see her and I clock. I'm like, okay, she's fine. 334 00:21:03,241 --> 00:21:07,881 Speaker 3: Back to panicking. So I see agents. You know, there 335 00:21:08,041 --> 00:21:12,441 Speaker 3: was like three in my kitchen that we're working on computers. 336 00:21:12,921 --> 00:21:17,080 Speaker 3: I was like what. And there was some in like 337 00:21:17,241 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 3: every one of our rooms. And I live in like 338 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,960 Speaker 3: a two bedroom, two bath, so it's decent sized, but 339 00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 3: like there are agents everywhere. I heard the guy that 340 00:21:27,441 --> 00:21:30,080 Speaker 3: called me, I didn't know his name, but he had 341 00:21:30,120 --> 00:21:32,081 Speaker 3: a unique voice. It was different. It wasn't the guy 342 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,360 Speaker 3: who met me outside. So I went up to him 343 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:36,400 Speaker 3: and I was like, what is going on? And he's like, 344 00:21:37,041 --> 00:21:42,041 Speaker 3: he's like, do you know anything about like internet activity? 345 00:21:42,521 --> 00:21:45,360 Speaker 3: And I'm like what, And he's like, you know, like 346 00:21:46,761 --> 00:21:51,641 Speaker 3: maybe some illegal internet activity. I'm like no, and he's like, oh, yeah, 347 00:21:51,721 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 3: I know, you don't know. I just have to ask 348 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:56,481 Speaker 3: because your name is on the Internet provider. And then 349 00:21:56,521 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 3: they told me They're like, so Ty has been he's 350 00:22:01,921 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 3: under arrest for you know, creating and possessing and distributing 351 00:22:09,681 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 3: child They called it child pornography. I advocate for them 352 00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 3: not to call that pornography implies consent. It's not to 353 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:21,480 Speaker 3: call it that. It's called child sexual abuse material, and 354 00:22:21,521 --> 00:22:26,721 Speaker 3: that's very important and I hate that they use that terminology. 355 00:22:26,921 --> 00:22:32,001 Speaker 3: But then they told me and your daughter was the victim, 356 00:22:32,761 --> 00:22:39,041 Speaker 3: And then I was like, I remember, there wasn't even 357 00:22:40,441 --> 00:22:45,561 Speaker 3: it was just shock. I think it wasn't. I would 358 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:50,801 Speaker 3: say it wasn't that I didn't believe that it happened. 359 00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:53,600 Speaker 3: It was just that I was in disbelief that I 360 00:22:53,681 --> 00:22:56,160 Speaker 3: was living this experience at this moment, you know what 361 00:22:56,201 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 3: I mean. It was like surreal. So I had this 362 00:22:58,801 --> 00:23:05,561 Speaker 3: weird surreal feeling. I did ask them, I'm like, is 363 00:23:05,561 --> 00:23:10,041 Speaker 3: there any way this is like a mistake And they're like, oh, no, no, 364 00:23:10,201 --> 00:23:11,921 Speaker 3: this is not a mistake. It's him. 365 00:23:11,961 --> 00:23:13,401 Speaker 1: Did you see this footage? 366 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:21,481 Speaker 3: So yeah, so some some stuff. I They've offered for 367 00:23:21,521 --> 00:23:24,880 Speaker 3: me to see all of it, and I've declined because 368 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:29,961 Speaker 3: I've seen enough. But I didn't see that stuff until 369 00:23:30,001 --> 00:23:30,961 Speaker 3: a couple of days later. 370 00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:34,481 Speaker 1: So was it only was it only your daughter that 371 00:23:34,521 --> 00:23:35,360 Speaker 1: he had that off? 372 00:23:36,441 --> 00:23:41,721 Speaker 3: So no, he was in possession of others. So they 373 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,561 Speaker 3: like just so they trade because it's so hard to 374 00:23:46,561 --> 00:23:50,401 Speaker 3: get because they have to be so like see, it's 375 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 3: hard for them to get, so they trade photos and 376 00:23:54,201 --> 00:23:57,561 Speaker 3: so he, you know, in that trading process of trading 377 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,360 Speaker 3: our daughter for whoever else, he there were obviously other victims. 378 00:24:02,441 --> 00:24:05,680 Speaker 3: So in that sense, there are other victim but he 379 00:24:06,041 --> 00:24:11,241 Speaker 3: in the manufacturing department, it was only our daughter. 380 00:24:11,761 --> 00:24:15,561 Speaker 4: So he wasn't he wasn't only just selling off photos 381 00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:19,840 Speaker 4: of his own daughter. He was actually receiving photos of 382 00:24:19,961 --> 00:24:20,521 Speaker 4: other people. 383 00:24:21,201 --> 00:24:21,801 Speaker 1: Wow. 384 00:24:23,241 --> 00:24:27,041 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how they do it. They trade. Disgusting. 385 00:24:28,001 --> 00:24:29,521 Speaker 1: Yeah, how long had they been doing it for? What 386 00:24:29,561 --> 00:24:31,160 Speaker 1: did they say? 387 00:24:31,441 --> 00:24:31,601 Speaker 5: So? 388 00:24:33,120 --> 00:24:37,120 Speaker 3: I didn't find this out until much much later, But 389 00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:44,160 Speaker 3: November twenty twenty two is when the National Center for 390 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:50,640 Speaker 3: Missing and Exploited Children they got an alert from snapchat 391 00:24:50,681 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 3: and discord. So then they reported that alert to the FBI. 392 00:24:55,001 --> 00:25:02,761 Speaker 3: So a full a full almost ear before his arrest. Yeah. 393 00:25:04,001 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that so going back to what we were 394 00:25:07,201 --> 00:25:09,880 Speaker 4: talking about, You're you're trying to now in your head 395 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 4: think about how they started. 396 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:16,801 Speaker 1: Where, where's the time to do it? Was he using 397 00:25:17,001 --> 00:25:17,600 Speaker 1: like you? 398 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,160 Speaker 4: Did he have a laptop at home or did he 399 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:21,361 Speaker 4: use a computer at work a lot? 400 00:25:23,001 --> 00:25:25,080 Speaker 3: He had a laptop here, there was actually nothing on it. 401 00:25:25,521 --> 00:25:27,120 Speaker 3: There was nothing on any of the laptops. It was 402 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:27,920 Speaker 3: all on his phone. 403 00:25:28,681 --> 00:25:31,400 Speaker 1: Oh okay, yeah, they went. 404 00:25:31,241 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 3: Through all our laptops. Yeah, nothing like. 405 00:25:36,441 --> 00:25:38,840 Speaker 4: I don't want to, as I said, out of respect, 406 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 4: I don't want to bring up too much about your daughter. 407 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,920 Speaker 4: But but you don't even you don't have to answer 408 00:25:45,921 --> 00:25:50,001 Speaker 4: this one, but I'll say, have you ever asked it? 409 00:25:50,801 --> 00:25:50,880 Speaker 5: So? 410 00:25:51,241 --> 00:25:54,400 Speaker 3: She has a therapist. I'm pretty I'm pretty vocal about 411 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,880 Speaker 3: everything about the situation in terms of how she's coping, 412 00:25:59,241 --> 00:26:01,840 Speaker 3: except for I don't share her name or right, yeah, identity, 413 00:26:01,961 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 3: but everything else the game. So right after this happened, 414 00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:10,001 Speaker 3: I got her a therapist. That therapist I ended up 415 00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:12,720 Speaker 3: not working out, ended up getting her a therapist in 416 00:26:12,801 --> 00:26:17,521 Speaker 3: February of this year. Who we love shout out, Eliza, 417 00:26:18,080 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 3: we love you. She is wonderful And my daughter has 418 00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 3: progressed so much. And my daughter's therapist has helped me 419 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:39,161 Speaker 3: understand how we need to explain this to my daughter 420 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 3: because we don't just say, you know you can't just 421 00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:46,561 Speaker 3: come out and tell her because she doesn't understand that 422 00:26:47,241 --> 00:26:50,281 Speaker 3: she's a baby. She doesn't get it. She was not 423 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:54,001 Speaker 3: even three yet at the time when she started seeing 424 00:26:54,001 --> 00:26:59,001 Speaker 3: the therapist either. So we started really small, like Daddy 425 00:26:59,041 --> 00:27:04,121 Speaker 3: did something naughty, Daddy's in trouble, but mommy's here, and 426 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:08,801 Speaker 3: Mommy will be here, Mommy will not leave. And because 427 00:27:08,801 --> 00:27:12,041 Speaker 3: she can understand that, she can understand, Okay, naughty, I 428 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,600 Speaker 3: get naughty because sometimes I'm naughty. I know trouble and 429 00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 3: you know, I know. Mommy stays that she can get that. 430 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:26,721 Speaker 3: And so then as her understanding progresses, as she you know, ages, 431 00:27:28,041 --> 00:27:30,401 Speaker 3: we added a little bit more and it's like, okay, 432 00:27:30,521 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 3: so now we're going to talk about God, what was 433 00:27:35,681 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 3: it after that? I think it was a judge. I 434 00:27:40,481 --> 00:27:42,400 Speaker 3: think we started talking about like a judge. So we 435 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:44,521 Speaker 3: didn't talk about dad for a little bit. We talked 436 00:27:44,521 --> 00:27:47,640 Speaker 3: about a judge, and we talked about like jail, and 437 00:27:47,681 --> 00:27:50,321 Speaker 3: we talked about police officers, and in no relation to 438 00:27:50,360 --> 00:27:52,561 Speaker 3: her dad like pushed to the side. We're She's like, 439 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:55,081 Speaker 3: do you know what a police officer does? And at 440 00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:57,721 Speaker 3: the time, the lead on my ex's case was still 441 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 3: very involved in our lives. And so I was like, 442 00:28:00,321 --> 00:28:03,041 Speaker 3: did you know Anna as a police officer? Did you 443 00:28:03,120 --> 00:28:06,321 Speaker 3: know that? And she's like yeah, and you know, she 444 00:28:06,481 --> 00:28:08,521 Speaker 3: understands what a police officer is. So we're like great. 445 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,681 Speaker 3: We didn't want her to blame police officers for her 446 00:28:13,801 --> 00:28:18,041 Speaker 3: dad going to jail, okay, because we cannot put it 447 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,920 Speaker 3: on the police because she may be in a position 448 00:28:20,961 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 3: where she needs police. What if she gets lost, what 449 00:28:23,481 --> 00:28:25,600 Speaker 3: if something happened. She can't hate the police. She has 450 00:28:25,681 --> 00:28:28,201 Speaker 3: to trust the police, which is very hard in today's society. 451 00:28:28,561 --> 00:28:31,880 Speaker 3: But nonetheless, I still have to teach her that. So 452 00:28:31,921 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 3: we didn't even tell her. We told her it was 453 00:28:34,001 --> 00:28:39,161 Speaker 3: the judge who you know, puts unsafe people in jail 454 00:28:39,441 --> 00:28:42,481 Speaker 3: in a place called jail, and jail's like time out 455 00:28:42,681 --> 00:28:49,601 Speaker 3: for adults. Okay, so very very childlike language that she 456 00:28:49,721 --> 00:28:52,761 Speaker 3: can understand, and like, oh this is this is digestible. 457 00:28:53,961 --> 00:28:57,121 Speaker 3: And it wasn't until very very recently that she, you know, 458 00:28:58,081 --> 00:29:04,841 Speaker 3: now understands, Okay, dad, you know, did something naughty. So 459 00:29:05,721 --> 00:29:10,681 Speaker 3: Anna took daddy to go see a judge and the 460 00:29:10,841 --> 00:29:14,241 Speaker 3: judge told Daddy he needs to go to time out, 461 00:29:14,321 --> 00:29:17,521 Speaker 3: which is chit. So now she knows that. So now 462 00:29:17,561 --> 00:29:21,041 Speaker 3: she'll say, my dad's in the jail, and it's like 463 00:29:21,721 --> 00:29:27,480 Speaker 3: it's so it's hard, and she she's getting it. And 464 00:29:27,521 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 3: I'm so grateful to her therapist for helping me figure 465 00:29:31,281 --> 00:29:35,601 Speaker 3: that out, because I really think it's been, you know, monumental. 466 00:29:35,641 --> 00:29:37,401 Speaker 3: I do ask her, I say, you know, what do 467 00:29:37,441 --> 00:29:40,240 Speaker 3: you remember? And you let them tell you, like do 468 00:29:40,321 --> 00:29:43,041 Speaker 3: you remember anything about that? And and she'll say, yeah, 469 00:29:43,881 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 3: you know, police and Anna, because she loves Anna, and 470 00:29:50,761 --> 00:29:53,761 Speaker 3: but she doesn't she doesn't say anything beyond. 471 00:29:54,881 --> 00:29:57,601 Speaker 1: You know, she never brings she never brings anything cold 472 00:29:57,641 --> 00:29:58,241 Speaker 1: about what. 473 00:29:58,161 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 3: He did or what No, nothing, nothing, nothing. 474 00:30:01,681 --> 00:30:04,121 Speaker 4: So so in other words, he could have disguised it 475 00:30:04,161 --> 00:30:05,481 Speaker 4: in a way like they were play in a game 476 00:30:05,601 --> 00:30:06,681 Speaker 4: or something like that, and she. 477 00:30:07,681 --> 00:30:10,361 Speaker 3: One hundred percent that he one hundred percent had to 478 00:30:10,401 --> 00:30:17,001 Speaker 3: have done that because she, I mean, she loves him, 479 00:30:17,481 --> 00:30:21,001 Speaker 3: She misses him all the time. She would say, you know, 480 00:30:22,201 --> 00:30:25,440 Speaker 3: go to places. It's hard, it's very, very hard. But 481 00:30:25,521 --> 00:30:27,561 Speaker 3: we would we would go to these places where we 482 00:30:27,681 --> 00:30:29,801 Speaker 3: used to go with him, and she'd say, is Daddy coming, 483 00:30:31,401 --> 00:30:35,801 Speaker 3: And or she'd be like, you know, daddy's missing, Daddy's lost, 484 00:30:35,841 --> 00:30:37,841 Speaker 3: And I'm like, Daddy's not missing. Daddy's not lost. I 485 00:30:37,841 --> 00:30:40,321 Speaker 3: know where he is. He's just in trouble right now, 486 00:30:40,481 --> 00:30:47,441 Speaker 3: you know. And so but when your child is asking 487 00:30:47,521 --> 00:30:51,401 Speaker 3: you stuff like that, I mean, it is just devastating. 488 00:30:51,601 --> 00:30:55,641 Speaker 3: I have on my TikTok I posted videos as I 489 00:30:55,681 --> 00:30:57,281 Speaker 3: was going through it in real time, and I talk 490 00:30:57,321 --> 00:30:58,961 Speaker 3: about it in one of those and I'm like bawling, 491 00:30:59,321 --> 00:31:02,001 Speaker 3: So me talking about it now, I'm like, yeah, that 492 00:31:02,081 --> 00:31:06,161 Speaker 3: was devastating. But my true reaction to all of that 493 00:31:06,281 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 3: is definitely like much worse. It was very hard, it 494 00:31:10,561 --> 00:31:13,641 Speaker 3: was very heavy, and I think it's lost on a 495 00:31:13,681 --> 00:31:19,561 Speaker 3: lot of people that this isn't necessarily the typical situation. 496 00:31:20,041 --> 00:31:24,161 Speaker 3: These crimes are pretty common, which I didn't realize until 497 00:31:25,801 --> 00:31:29,521 Speaker 3: you know, I'm in the justice system for it, But 498 00:31:31,881 --> 00:31:34,321 Speaker 3: they're common a lot of the times. It will be 499 00:31:34,401 --> 00:31:37,960 Speaker 3: like a stepdad or an uncle or a friend, you know, 500 00:31:38,041 --> 00:31:40,761 Speaker 3: somebody that knows the child very well. And it's not 501 00:31:40,801 --> 00:31:43,681 Speaker 3: to say that it never happens with the biological parent, 502 00:31:43,761 --> 00:31:46,241 Speaker 3: because it does it very much. So does all the time. 503 00:31:46,401 --> 00:31:49,441 Speaker 3: This is not a rare thing. It's just less common 504 00:31:49,841 --> 00:31:56,281 Speaker 3: than cases where it's not the biological parent. So I 505 00:31:56,361 --> 00:31:59,281 Speaker 3: think it gets lost on a lot of people that like, Okay, 506 00:31:59,561 --> 00:32:02,561 Speaker 3: the perpetrator and the victim are both my family members. 507 00:32:02,601 --> 00:32:07,081 Speaker 3: I'm almost the monkey in the middle of like, you know, 508 00:32:08,761 --> 00:32:10,480 Speaker 3: he did this, and so he's a bad guy. And 509 00:32:10,481 --> 00:32:12,801 Speaker 3: then she misses him, so then I'm like, oh crap, 510 00:32:12,921 --> 00:32:16,241 Speaker 3: that's like her actual father, you know, that's like all 511 00:32:16,321 --> 00:32:21,161 Speaker 3: she knows as a dad. And my dad unfortunately passed 512 00:32:21,201 --> 00:32:25,601 Speaker 3: away like six months before my exes arrest, and so 513 00:32:26,841 --> 00:32:33,281 Speaker 3: she has zero male figures zero, And it's sad. It's 514 00:32:33,321 --> 00:32:36,001 Speaker 3: really sad. She has a void and it's really sad. 515 00:32:36,801 --> 00:32:38,481 Speaker 1: How do you feel about him at the. 516 00:32:38,441 --> 00:32:45,921 Speaker 3: Moment, I'm just pretty grossed out. Okay, I got through 517 00:32:45,921 --> 00:32:54,001 Speaker 3: different like phases. It really depends on what my life 518 00:32:54,081 --> 00:32:56,481 Speaker 3: is like outside of all of that, what my day 519 00:32:56,521 --> 00:33:02,361 Speaker 3: to day is like. Sometimes I'm really angry and and 520 00:33:02,441 --> 00:33:05,841 Speaker 3: I do. I do struggle with rage. Times. It's not 521 00:33:06,041 --> 00:33:09,481 Speaker 3: just like oh I'm mad or oh I'm it's rage. 522 00:33:10,561 --> 00:33:15,480 Speaker 3: I want answers I'm never gonna receive. I'm angry about 523 00:33:15,601 --> 00:33:19,401 Speaker 3: my life. I'm angry about my dad's death, and now 524 00:33:19,441 --> 00:33:23,041 Speaker 3: my daughter's living this parallel experience to me where we're 525 00:33:23,041 --> 00:33:25,521 Speaker 3: both grieving the loss of our fathers, but mine was 526 00:33:25,561 --> 00:33:28,361 Speaker 3: actually kind of decent. He died. But I have to 527 00:33:28,401 --> 00:33:33,241 Speaker 3: explain this to my daughter of like, I can't even 528 00:33:33,281 --> 00:33:35,841 Speaker 3: tell her that he loves her because I don't know 529 00:33:35,921 --> 00:33:39,361 Speaker 3: if that's true. It doesn't seem true, right. I don't 530 00:33:39,441 --> 00:33:42,401 Speaker 3: have any diagnosis for him. But somebody who loves somebody 531 00:33:42,441 --> 00:33:45,241 Speaker 3: doesn't abuse them, and so I can't even say, oh, 532 00:33:45,321 --> 00:33:48,321 Speaker 3: Dad loves can't say that. So what I've come to 533 00:33:48,921 --> 00:33:52,921 Speaker 3: is I can't say, Dad, missus, your dad cares because 534 00:33:52,961 --> 00:33:57,361 Speaker 3: I can't. Actually I can't. It's not a given that 535 00:33:57,401 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 3: he does. Has he apologized, I mean kind of, but 536 00:34:04,481 --> 00:34:08,761 Speaker 3: it's not a apology because he minimizes it. But mind you, 537 00:34:08,921 --> 00:34:14,001 Speaker 3: this was all while the court case was happening, so 538 00:34:14,241 --> 00:34:17,161 Speaker 3: he couldn't say a whole lot. He was still being 539 00:34:17,241 --> 00:34:19,921 Speaker 3: prosecuted at that point. I don't think he had even 540 00:34:20,001 --> 00:34:23,921 Speaker 3: he hadn't even pled guilty yet. So when we had 541 00:34:23,961 --> 00:34:27,121 Speaker 3: those meetings, that was pretty that was within like a 542 00:34:27,201 --> 00:34:29,641 Speaker 3: month or so of his arrest. I think it was 543 00:34:29,681 --> 00:34:33,441 Speaker 3: like six weeks after his arrest when we had those meetings, 544 00:34:34,081 --> 00:34:36,281 Speaker 3: and you know, he would say he's sorry, but it 545 00:34:36,281 --> 00:34:38,081 Speaker 3: would also be like, it's not as bad as what 546 00:34:38,121 --> 00:34:40,481 Speaker 3: they're saying it is. I'm like, oh, so you were 547 00:34:40,521 --> 00:34:43,721 Speaker 3: like framed. He's like, well no, and I'm like, oh, so, 548 00:34:43,961 --> 00:34:47,841 Speaker 3: like what do you mean It's not as bad as 549 00:34:47,921 --> 00:34:52,241 Speaker 3: it is. I've seen the evidence, Like, why are you 550 00:34:52,321 --> 00:34:55,801 Speaker 3: trying to make it? And to this day they minimize 551 00:34:55,881 --> 00:35:02,561 Speaker 3: I feel like this whole situation is just okay. 552 00:35:02,601 --> 00:35:05,521 Speaker 4: So was it because I seen some of the charges 553 00:35:05,721 --> 00:35:07,961 Speaker 4: on good behavior whatever it was that he got off 554 00:35:08,081 --> 00:35:09,041 Speaker 4: with some of them? 555 00:35:09,201 --> 00:35:13,281 Speaker 1: But yeah, was it just photos or physical? 556 00:35:16,161 --> 00:35:16,521 Speaker 3: Both? 557 00:35:17,721 --> 00:35:21,561 Speaker 1: Both? And he thinks it's not as bad as everybody thinks. 558 00:35:22,681 --> 00:35:26,241 Speaker 3: Yeah, delusional, Absolutely delusional. 559 00:35:26,481 --> 00:35:31,121 Speaker 1: And I so he actually touched his own daughter. Yep, 560 00:35:33,161 --> 00:35:35,041 Speaker 1: Oh my fucking god. 561 00:35:35,801 --> 00:35:39,441 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's fucked up. It's really fucked up. 562 00:35:41,041 --> 00:35:44,161 Speaker 4: With with with the person he bought the photos off. 563 00:35:44,841 --> 00:35:46,281 Speaker 1: Did they ever get him too? 564 00:35:47,721 --> 00:35:55,201 Speaker 3: So what I was told by attorneys is that the 565 00:35:55,361 --> 00:36:00,641 Speaker 3: pictures could pop up in other cases, and when that happens, 566 00:36:01,081 --> 00:36:04,601 Speaker 3: the authorities of each case, you know, or the lawyers 567 00:36:04,641 --> 00:36:07,561 Speaker 3: on each side, you know, then they chat and they're like, hey, 568 00:36:07,641 --> 00:36:09,361 Speaker 3: we had one of your photos come up blah blah 569 00:36:09,361 --> 00:36:11,881 Speaker 3: blah blah blah, and then you can get that person 570 00:36:11,961 --> 00:36:13,401 Speaker 3: for restitution. 571 00:36:14,681 --> 00:36:15,201 Speaker 5: For me. 572 00:36:17,921 --> 00:36:25,121 Speaker 3: For me personally. I don't know what I'll do if 573 00:36:26,281 --> 00:36:30,281 Speaker 3: if those photos pop up and they and they ask 574 00:36:30,401 --> 00:36:32,721 Speaker 3: me if I want to go after that person for restitution. 575 00:36:33,481 --> 00:36:35,721 Speaker 3: I don't know if I'll do that. I actually didn't 576 00:36:35,801 --> 00:36:38,561 Speaker 3: do that for her dad, and I'll tell you why. 577 00:36:39,921 --> 00:36:44,041 Speaker 3: I don't want a dime from that fucker. I do 578 00:36:44,041 --> 00:36:49,481 Speaker 3: not want a dime of their disgusting, nasty money. I 579 00:36:49,521 --> 00:36:51,401 Speaker 3: can take care of my daughter. I can get her 580 00:36:51,401 --> 00:36:53,681 Speaker 3: everything she needs, and I can do it by myself 581 00:36:53,881 --> 00:36:57,960 Speaker 3: because I don't need these sick people to I don't 582 00:36:57,961 --> 00:37:02,001 Speaker 3: want his prison money. That isn't that's like triggering. I 583 00:37:02,041 --> 00:37:07,601 Speaker 3: don't want to get these one all her checks from prison. 584 00:37:08,161 --> 00:37:12,001 Speaker 3: I would rather get my daughter everything she needs on 585 00:37:12,041 --> 00:37:16,321 Speaker 3: my own. And he doesn't have anything anyways, So it 586 00:37:16,401 --> 00:37:17,321 Speaker 3: was kind of pointless. 587 00:37:18,681 --> 00:37:21,721 Speaker 1: Do do do you like? Because you're you're trying to 588 00:37:21,801 --> 00:37:26,001 Speaker 1: keep like your your daughter's saying she misses her dad. 589 00:37:26,401 --> 00:37:29,241 Speaker 4: So when it comes to a point where when is 590 00:37:29,241 --> 00:37:30,721 Speaker 4: it going to come to the point where you're just 591 00:37:30,801 --> 00:37:33,641 Speaker 4: gonna go, I can't do this no more being the 592 00:37:33,761 --> 00:37:38,161 Speaker 4: nice mom trying to be nice to my daughter when 593 00:37:38,401 --> 00:37:40,520 Speaker 4: the evil bastard did this to her. 594 00:37:40,921 --> 00:37:43,361 Speaker 1: When are you going to be So what are you 595 00:37:43,401 --> 00:37:45,761 Speaker 1: gonna do? If she says, can I go and visit 596 00:37:45,841 --> 00:37:46,321 Speaker 1: my dad? 597 00:37:47,441 --> 00:37:54,161 Speaker 3: No, you sure can't, not until so the furthest I 598 00:37:54,201 --> 00:37:57,241 Speaker 3: would allow. And this, So here's the thing. I have 599 00:37:57,321 --> 00:38:00,081 Speaker 3: a therapist I see twice a week. She sees her therapists, 600 00:38:00,121 --> 00:38:03,321 Speaker 3: and then she also sees an additional two therapists but 601 00:38:03,441 --> 00:38:07,081 Speaker 3: in other sectors. So we have a very strong team 602 00:38:07,401 --> 00:38:13,241 Speaker 3: of people who are professionals in this and so I 603 00:38:13,321 --> 00:38:16,281 Speaker 3: don't make those kinds of decisions on my own. I've 604 00:38:16,281 --> 00:38:20,041 Speaker 3: signed rois for my therapist and her therapists. We can 605 00:38:20,081 --> 00:38:24,161 Speaker 3: collaborate all of us. There's people at her school that 606 00:38:24,201 --> 00:38:27,281 Speaker 3: are like social workers that I can collaborate with. There's 607 00:38:27,361 --> 00:38:30,161 Speaker 3: so many people. I will never make that decision on 608 00:38:30,201 --> 00:38:33,321 Speaker 3: my own because I don't feel qualified too. I want 609 00:38:33,361 --> 00:38:37,881 Speaker 3: to do right by her in this situation. I want 610 00:38:37,921 --> 00:38:42,841 Speaker 3: to do what is I just want to do the 611 00:38:42,921 --> 00:38:46,161 Speaker 3: best I absolutely can. I don't want to further traumatize 612 00:38:46,161 --> 00:38:49,281 Speaker 3: my daughters. So that's kind of why I involve these 613 00:38:49,321 --> 00:38:52,681 Speaker 3: therapists and these things, is because I can't. I don't. 614 00:38:52,841 --> 00:38:54,561 Speaker 3: I don't want to make that decision on my own. 615 00:38:54,561 --> 00:38:58,801 Speaker 3: And if her therapists say, or our therapists say, you know, 616 00:38:59,041 --> 00:39:03,081 Speaker 3: a phone call would be okay at some point it's supervised, 617 00:39:03,241 --> 00:39:05,401 Speaker 3: not only is it recorded through them. I would be 618 00:39:05,481 --> 00:39:08,481 Speaker 3: a part of that call, then maybe that would be 619 00:39:08,521 --> 00:39:12,681 Speaker 3: the furthest. But until she's like a late teenager, until 620 00:39:12,721 --> 00:39:16,121 Speaker 3: she has all the facts, she's not going to see him. 621 00:39:16,321 --> 00:39:19,121 Speaker 3: That's not happening. Plus, he could be transferred to the 622 00:39:19,121 --> 00:39:21,961 Speaker 3: other side of the country because that's what his family wants, 623 00:39:22,641 --> 00:39:26,561 Speaker 3: So he wouldn't. We would never there would never even 624 00:39:26,561 --> 00:39:29,721 Speaker 3: be a situation where that would be feasible, even if 625 00:39:29,761 --> 00:39:33,401 Speaker 3: I wanted to, which I don't. I don't. I don't 626 00:39:33,401 --> 00:39:35,841 Speaker 3: think he deserves access to her. I have thought for 627 00:39:35,921 --> 00:39:38,561 Speaker 3: the past year, and I fought for it. I did 628 00:39:38,681 --> 00:39:42,561 Speaker 3: let our DVPO expire because it was worthless, it didn't 629 00:39:42,641 --> 00:39:45,001 Speaker 3: mean anything, and it was just more legal work for me. 630 00:39:45,641 --> 00:39:49,361 Speaker 3: And so you know, I don't allow him access to her. 631 00:39:50,041 --> 00:39:53,801 Speaker 3: And so I think that's the proper response for her 632 00:39:53,921 --> 00:39:57,681 Speaker 3: age right now. But who's to say that in two 633 00:39:57,841 --> 00:40:01,561 Speaker 3: years when she has more of an understanding that if 634 00:40:01,601 --> 00:40:05,521 Speaker 3: she wants to have a call, a super advice call, 635 00:40:05,641 --> 00:40:09,041 Speaker 3: there's nothing you can do to her over the phone, nothing, nothing. 636 00:40:09,761 --> 00:40:15,321 Speaker 3: And for me, I think as well. I think it's 637 00:40:15,361 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 3: also that she's always going to have me and she's 638 00:40:19,521 --> 00:40:22,401 Speaker 3: always going to have her therapist. So she is so 639 00:40:22,601 --> 00:40:25,321 Speaker 3: loved and so supported, and I've made damn sure that 640 00:40:25,401 --> 00:40:29,081 Speaker 3: she is because I don't want her to ever feel like, 641 00:40:30,721 --> 00:40:35,081 Speaker 3: you know, confuse or upset or wone or whatever. Like 642 00:40:35,201 --> 00:40:38,241 Speaker 3: I want to be able to help her get through 643 00:40:38,281 --> 00:40:40,401 Speaker 3: because that's just gonna be tricky. It's going to be 644 00:40:40,441 --> 00:40:45,201 Speaker 3: really really hard because he's her biological father and but 645 00:40:45,441 --> 00:40:45,960 Speaker 3: I don't know. 646 00:40:46,081 --> 00:40:49,121 Speaker 1: But at the moment, she doesn't know what he's done wrong. 647 00:40:49,401 --> 00:40:51,961 Speaker 3: No, she doesn't, and he doesn't have access. 648 00:40:52,041 --> 00:40:54,761 Speaker 4: So what happens the day that she finds out, because 649 00:40:54,801 --> 00:40:57,961 Speaker 4: it's not going to be hard or you can google 650 00:40:58,001 --> 00:40:59,321 Speaker 4: it and your story comes up. 651 00:41:00,681 --> 00:41:06,041 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I know, I know that's not already. We 652 00:41:06,121 --> 00:41:12,121 Speaker 3: have many things in place actually as far as like protections. 653 00:41:12,241 --> 00:41:15,401 Speaker 3: But she you know, if we're talking like, oh, she's 654 00:41:15,401 --> 00:41:18,001 Speaker 3: gonna find out online, I mean she probably wouldn't find 655 00:41:18,001 --> 00:41:20,841 Speaker 3: out until she was like ten. And since she's in 656 00:41:20,921 --> 00:41:23,441 Speaker 3: therapy right now and we've already laid the groundwork for 657 00:41:23,481 --> 00:41:25,121 Speaker 3: a good part of it, I would say she'll be 658 00:41:25,161 --> 00:41:29,001 Speaker 3: aware of what happened and possibly like fully understand it 659 00:41:29,081 --> 00:41:32,001 Speaker 3: by the time she's five or six roughly. 660 00:41:34,121 --> 00:41:36,921 Speaker 1: But in your mind you wanted to see it at 661 00:41:36,921 --> 00:41:42,201 Speaker 1: all at all. You'd rather he was fucking just dead. 662 00:41:44,361 --> 00:41:48,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, you see, like I'm I'm saying it. 663 00:41:48,561 --> 00:41:51,841 Speaker 3: No, I know, I know and in a sense yeah, 664 00:41:52,121 --> 00:41:56,481 Speaker 3: like in a sense yes. My thing is I know 665 00:41:56,561 --> 00:41:59,241 Speaker 3: what it feels like to hate people. I know what 666 00:41:59,281 --> 00:42:01,601 Speaker 3: it feels like to be bitter. I know what it 667 00:42:01,601 --> 00:42:04,921 Speaker 3: feels like to carry around anger. I do not want 668 00:42:04,921 --> 00:42:07,721 Speaker 3: my daughter to feel that. I want my daughter to 669 00:42:07,841 --> 00:42:14,361 Speaker 3: become indifferent. Indifferent. Indifference is freedom. She doesn't have to 670 00:42:14,401 --> 00:42:19,561 Speaker 3: forgive him, she doesn't have to do anything. She can 671 00:42:19,601 --> 00:42:22,241 Speaker 3: be mad if she wants to. She can feel however 672 00:42:22,321 --> 00:42:25,241 Speaker 3: she feels, and she feels, and she's entitled to those feelings. 673 00:42:25,601 --> 00:42:28,521 Speaker 3: I'm just never gonna sit here and encourage the hatred, 674 00:42:28,801 --> 00:42:31,961 Speaker 3: because all it's gonna do is harm her. Be free. 675 00:42:32,561 --> 00:42:34,881 Speaker 3: Don't carry that around. It's not. 676 00:42:36,841 --> 00:42:40,041 Speaker 1: Beneficial, it's not What was What was the reaction? What 677 00:42:40,121 --> 00:42:41,881 Speaker 1: was the reaction in the town when this happened? 678 00:42:46,001 --> 00:42:52,121 Speaker 3: Hold on, let me plague this in no click? Sorry? 679 00:42:52,161 --> 00:42:52,641 Speaker 3: What was that? 680 00:42:53,201 --> 00:42:54,561 Speaker 1: What was the reaction in the town. 681 00:42:54,761 --> 00:42:59,481 Speaker 3: Nobody knows, nobody knows, nobody. No, I don't think anybody 682 00:42:59,521 --> 00:43:02,041 Speaker 3: knows if no one knows. 683 00:43:03,361 --> 00:43:05,241 Speaker 1: House and nobody knows I. 684 00:43:05,281 --> 00:43:09,881 Speaker 3: Still live here. I've gotten new neighbors like twice over. 685 00:43:10,881 --> 00:43:13,401 Speaker 4: Like a back outside someone's house and go, oh, yeah, 686 00:43:13,401 --> 00:43:16,161 Speaker 4: it's okay, soone, but that the fucking FBI raised your 687 00:43:16,161 --> 00:43:16,721 Speaker 4: fucking house. 688 00:43:17,121 --> 00:43:20,001 Speaker 3: I mean. The only people who knew me, even who 689 00:43:20,041 --> 00:43:25,081 Speaker 3: I knew, were my bosses. Okay, say so, they were 690 00:43:25,121 --> 00:43:27,481 Speaker 3: actually the only ones who really helped me through that 691 00:43:27,521 --> 00:43:32,801 Speaker 3: initial process. My direct boss came while they were still here, 692 00:43:32,841 --> 00:43:37,681 Speaker 3: so she's met them, and then my regional coordinator, so 693 00:43:37,761 --> 00:43:41,561 Speaker 3: the person above my boss, I actually know her from 694 00:43:41,561 --> 00:43:46,401 Speaker 3: a previous job, and so she was also very supportive. 695 00:43:46,441 --> 00:43:48,441 Speaker 3: She sat with me at the hospital with my daughter 696 00:43:48,521 --> 00:43:51,681 Speaker 3: for twelve hours and to give her multiple rounds of 697 00:43:51,761 --> 00:43:55,201 Speaker 3: sedatives so that we could get through the same exam. 698 00:43:56,121 --> 00:44:02,081 Speaker 3: Wow aka like a rape kit. So but my boss 699 00:44:02,081 --> 00:44:03,761 Speaker 3: sat with me through that, So really it was just 700 00:44:03,841 --> 00:44:06,881 Speaker 3: the two of them that new and they didn't really 701 00:44:06,921 --> 00:44:12,001 Speaker 3: know him prior, so it wasn't this huge like nobody 702 00:44:12,081 --> 00:44:15,361 Speaker 3: knew us. We were still so new here. We just 703 00:44:15,441 --> 00:44:18,321 Speaker 3: didn't have a community or anything like that. I still 704 00:44:18,401 --> 00:44:20,521 Speaker 3: don't have a community. I don't have time. 705 00:44:21,641 --> 00:44:24,001 Speaker 4: Will you ever, just you know, when you see him, 706 00:44:24,001 --> 00:44:26,281 Speaker 4: will you ever just like angry? Like do you want 707 00:44:26,281 --> 00:44:29,641 Speaker 4: to the fucking leap over and just kill a little bustard? 708 00:44:30,281 --> 00:44:35,321 Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, like yeah, a lot of it though I'm 709 00:44:35,801 --> 00:44:39,561 Speaker 3: I'm so the anger for me builds, because anger is 710 00:44:39,601 --> 00:44:44,281 Speaker 3: like a secondary emotion. But for me, I usually get 711 00:44:44,361 --> 00:44:47,801 Speaker 3: just really frustrated and overwhelmed and flustered, and that will 712 00:44:47,841 --> 00:44:50,841 Speaker 3: make me cry because I can't it's so much. And 713 00:44:50,841 --> 00:44:52,841 Speaker 3: this is an ADHD thing too, It's a lot to 714 00:44:52,881 --> 00:44:56,401 Speaker 3: process all at one time, and so I'll get over 715 00:44:56,441 --> 00:44:59,241 Speaker 3: stimulated by it and I'll just start to cry. But 716 00:44:59,721 --> 00:45:03,161 Speaker 3: that anger comes, and like I've said, I work it 717 00:45:03,201 --> 00:45:06,601 Speaker 3: out in the gym. But like that anger does come, 718 00:45:06,681 --> 00:45:08,881 Speaker 3: it just comes a little bit later after I've had 719 00:45:08,881 --> 00:45:11,960 Speaker 3: time to process all of it. But up front, I'm 720 00:45:12,001 --> 00:45:15,641 Speaker 3: not as good as And also also, I mean my 721 00:45:15,801 --> 00:45:19,641 Speaker 3: dad had just died, and prior to that, I had 722 00:45:19,641 --> 00:45:23,601 Speaker 3: been through multiple traumas. I was so traumatized at that point, 723 00:45:24,121 --> 00:45:28,161 Speaker 3: without even him, I was a shell of myself and 724 00:45:28,201 --> 00:45:32,161 Speaker 3: then this happened and it was just it was so 725 00:45:32,321 --> 00:45:37,001 Speaker 3: much worse after that, I couldn't cope. I mean, yes, 726 00:45:37,161 --> 00:45:39,721 Speaker 3: I get so angry, but later. 727 00:45:40,521 --> 00:45:44,721 Speaker 1: Later I can't. I'm trying to get my fucking headground this. 728 00:45:44,761 --> 00:45:47,601 Speaker 1: But but the thing is, like. 729 00:45:49,041 --> 00:45:52,641 Speaker 4: Me, really, I'd be fucking raging that someone has touched 730 00:45:52,641 --> 00:45:56,801 Speaker 4: my fucking daughter, my kid. He's the father who's supposed 731 00:45:56,841 --> 00:46:01,041 Speaker 4: to protect. But yeah, and to touch someone so young 732 00:46:01,121 --> 00:46:07,121 Speaker 4: who cannot defend themselves and sexually abuse them like, I'd 733 00:46:07,121 --> 00:46:08,441 Speaker 4: want to fucking kill him. 734 00:46:08,801 --> 00:46:09,241 Speaker 1: I'd want to. 735 00:46:09,281 --> 00:46:11,721 Speaker 4: I'd want to fucking get someone inside the jail to 736 00:46:11,761 --> 00:46:12,401 Speaker 4: fucking killing. 737 00:46:13,521 --> 00:46:13,921 Speaker 3: Yeah. 738 00:46:14,121 --> 00:46:16,041 Speaker 1: I know, I get. 739 00:46:16,481 --> 00:46:18,801 Speaker 3: I really go through all of that, I really do. 740 00:46:19,321 --> 00:46:21,841 Speaker 3: I mean, there are just some days that I am 741 00:46:21,921 --> 00:46:26,961 Speaker 3: so enraged and it is rage and I have to 742 00:46:27,001 --> 00:46:29,801 Speaker 3: cope with it in healthy, productive ways because I have 743 00:46:29,841 --> 00:46:34,401 Speaker 3: a child, Okay, and and that's really the thing is 744 00:46:35,761 --> 00:46:37,480 Speaker 3: I Well, number one, I have a lot of eyes 745 00:46:37,521 --> 00:46:41,841 Speaker 3: on me, and number two, I am the sole person 746 00:46:42,161 --> 00:46:46,921 Speaker 3: for my daughter. That's it. Not my family, not his family. 747 00:46:47,161 --> 00:46:50,881 Speaker 3: They're both sick people or a sick groups of people. 748 00:46:51,401 --> 00:46:55,521 Speaker 3: She has me, and that's it. So that being said, 749 00:46:55,761 --> 00:47:01,761 Speaker 3: I have to be dealing with this in the most productive, healthy, 750 00:47:02,521 --> 00:47:07,601 Speaker 3: mentally safe that I can, so that I can be 751 00:47:08,081 --> 00:47:12,521 Speaker 3: a good mom because I cannot focus on him, and 752 00:47:12,561 --> 00:47:16,161 Speaker 3: I don't want to focus on him. He's trash. He's trash, 753 00:47:16,281 --> 00:47:19,201 Speaker 3: and I get angry and I'm pissed, and yeah, sometimes 754 00:47:19,241 --> 00:47:23,561 Speaker 3: I want him to die too, and but I can't 755 00:47:23,561 --> 00:47:26,801 Speaker 3: focus on that. I am so busy with my daughter 756 00:47:27,121 --> 00:47:30,361 Speaker 3: and making sure she has all her therapy appointments, all 757 00:47:30,361 --> 00:47:33,361 Speaker 3: her specialized doctor appointments because she has to see multiple 758 00:47:33,361 --> 00:47:38,401 Speaker 3: specialists for multiple other health issues. Like I'm busy trying 759 00:47:38,521 --> 00:47:41,481 Speaker 3: to focus and make her life as big and happy 760 00:47:41,561 --> 00:47:44,361 Speaker 3: as possible. That he is just him and his family. 761 00:47:44,561 --> 00:47:46,561 Speaker 3: They pissed me the fuck off, but like, I will 762 00:47:46,601 --> 00:47:48,561 Speaker 3: deal with that later, you know what I mean? And 763 00:47:48,601 --> 00:47:50,241 Speaker 3: I do. I think I deal with that, like in 764 00:47:50,281 --> 00:47:53,521 Speaker 3: the mornings and at nighttime, but during the day, that's 765 00:47:53,561 --> 00:47:56,521 Speaker 3: when I have to really focus on my daughter and 766 00:47:56,561 --> 00:47:59,081 Speaker 3: what's best for her. And she's been thriving. So I 767 00:47:59,121 --> 00:48:01,441 Speaker 3: do feel like I've been doing an okay job. But 768 00:48:01,961 --> 00:48:04,440 Speaker 3: that is not to say I'm never angry. I am 769 00:48:05,121 --> 00:48:07,281 Speaker 3: liam Like, yeah. 770 00:48:07,321 --> 00:48:08,801 Speaker 1: When I asked you this, don't don't take it the 771 00:48:08,801 --> 00:48:11,201 Speaker 1: own away. But do you feel like do you feel 772 00:48:11,201 --> 00:48:13,761 Speaker 1: like you've let it down because he done what he did. 773 00:48:14,801 --> 00:48:23,681 Speaker 3: I did, Yeah, I did. It is hard, so I 774 00:48:23,721 --> 00:48:28,401 Speaker 3: know it's not my fault. I know that he manipulated. 775 00:48:29,041 --> 00:48:35,241 Speaker 3: I know he's an amazing manipulator. I know that there 776 00:48:35,401 --> 00:48:42,161 Speaker 3: was you know, nothing, But it is hard as mom's 777 00:48:42,281 --> 00:48:45,641 Speaker 3: you know, anything happens and we all feel guilty, you know, 778 00:48:46,361 --> 00:48:49,481 Speaker 3: And so I do carry a good amount of guilt, 779 00:48:51,201 --> 00:48:55,921 Speaker 3: but ultimately, you know, deep down, I know it's not 780 00:48:55,961 --> 00:48:57,841 Speaker 3: my fault, but I'm always going to carry that mom 781 00:48:57,881 --> 00:49:00,161 Speaker 3: guilt because you know, do. 782 00:49:00,161 --> 00:49:01,401 Speaker 4: You think you need do you think you need to 783 00:49:01,401 --> 00:49:03,201 Speaker 4: get out of where you are for because there's too 784 00:49:03,241 --> 00:49:06,801 Speaker 4: many fucking bad memories in there. Our bloody eye, I 785 00:49:06,801 --> 00:49:09,441 Speaker 4: couldn't be saying in a bloody place with that happened, 786 00:49:09,481 --> 00:49:10,321 Speaker 4: no way in the world. 787 00:49:10,601 --> 00:49:12,481 Speaker 3: I've been trying to get out or I'm in the 788 00:49:12,521 --> 00:49:18,041 Speaker 3: middle of a lawsuit with my landlord actually, so I'm 789 00:49:18,081 --> 00:49:21,081 Speaker 3: desperately trying to get out. It's like mold coming out 790 00:49:21,121 --> 00:49:24,721 Speaker 3: of the events. So, yeah, this place is just terrible, 791 00:49:24,881 --> 00:49:28,001 Speaker 3: and so I've been I've been trying to get out, 792 00:49:28,481 --> 00:49:31,601 Speaker 3: and yeah, I want to so best she wants to 793 00:49:31,641 --> 00:49:33,361 Speaker 3: we talk about it. I'm like, what if we moved 794 00:49:33,401 --> 00:49:37,361 Speaker 3: into like a different place, and you know, we talk about, oh, someday, 795 00:49:37,481 --> 00:49:39,761 Speaker 3: you know, maybe we'll have dogs, because she loves dogs, 796 00:49:40,041 --> 00:49:41,641 Speaker 3: and I'm like, maybe someday we'll be able to have 797 00:49:41,681 --> 00:49:43,241 Speaker 3: a dog again. We had a dog when she was 798 00:49:43,241 --> 00:49:47,281 Speaker 3: a baby. But yeah, so we talk about it and 799 00:49:47,321 --> 00:49:51,321 Speaker 3: we I make moves in order to make that happen. 800 00:49:51,721 --> 00:49:54,681 Speaker 3: I try my best. I'm trying my best. It is. 801 00:49:55,521 --> 00:49:58,241 Speaker 3: It is more difficult than you could ever imagine. My 802 00:49:58,361 --> 00:50:03,081 Speaker 3: ability to make money is almost zero zero because of 803 00:50:03,841 --> 00:50:09,321 Speaker 3: I get five hours wors per day of daycare. Okay, 804 00:50:10,721 --> 00:50:15,921 Speaker 3: five hours is not all the time, and that's not 805 00:50:16,001 --> 00:50:20,361 Speaker 3: even per like per day per week because on Thursdays 806 00:50:20,401 --> 00:50:25,201 Speaker 3: and Tuesdays it's less. And so I went from working 807 00:50:25,481 --> 00:50:29,481 Speaker 3: two jobs because he quit his job sixty hours to 808 00:50:29,601 --> 00:50:34,121 Speaker 3: working less than thirty every week. And so people come on, 809 00:50:34,281 --> 00:50:40,401 Speaker 3: just get another don how how I have been, you know, 810 00:50:41,241 --> 00:50:46,001 Speaker 3: rebuilding and it takes so much time, and so yeah, 811 00:50:46,121 --> 00:50:49,641 Speaker 3: I think I'll be rebuilding for probably another six months. 812 00:50:50,121 --> 00:50:52,761 Speaker 3: I want to be generous since say six months, but 813 00:50:52,841 --> 00:50:55,601 Speaker 3: I'm really hoping that by the end of the six months, 814 00:50:55,641 --> 00:50:59,761 Speaker 3: life will look totally different, really hoping for that. 815 00:51:00,121 --> 00:51:02,161 Speaker 1: I want to say big thank you to you for 816 00:51:02,241 --> 00:51:04,921 Speaker 1: coming on today, you know, but. 817 00:51:05,481 --> 00:51:07,561 Speaker 4: Now it's been worth it. And as as I said, 818 00:51:07,561 --> 00:51:09,841 Speaker 4: when I seen the story, you know. 819 00:51:09,841 --> 00:51:12,401 Speaker 1: What it was to me. It was fucking shocking and 820 00:51:12,481 --> 00:51:13,881 Speaker 1: I just I needed 821 00:51:13,921 --> 00:51:16,401 Speaker 4: To share it even you know, it needed to be 822 00:51:16,441 --> 00:51:19,001 Speaker 4: shared a lot