WEBVTT - COP30’s missing words: coal, oil and gas

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Ruby Jones and you're listening to seven AM. Negotiators

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<v Speaker 1>of this year's Global Climate Summit in Brazil almost didn't

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<v Speaker 1>reach a deal, but when they did, the waded down

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<v Speaker 1>pledge left many countries reeling. While the agreement boosts finance

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<v Speaker 1>for poorer nations experiencing the worst of global warming, it

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<v Speaker 1>fails to even mention the fossil fuels driving it. Outside

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<v Speaker 1>the official COP process, dozens of countries signed a pledge

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<v Speaker 1>to phase out fossil fuels, but while Australia signed, Anthony

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<v Speaker 1>Albanezi says his government will keep approving new coal and

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<v Speaker 1>gas projects. Today, Greenpeace Australia Pacific Chief Executive David Rittter

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<v Speaker 1>on what really happened in Brazil and where the COP

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<v Speaker 1>is now just a cop out. It's Tuesday, November twenty five. So, David,

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<v Speaker 1>you just got back from Brazil and you were there

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<v Speaker 1>in Vellum for COP thirty. So first of all, what

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<v Speaker 1>was it like to be there on the ground as

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<v Speaker 1>all of these countries were coming together negotiating their next

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<v Speaker 1>steps on climate action.

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<v Speaker 2>Look, it's an absolutely extraordinary experience. The venue itself is vast,

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<v Speaker 2>There are thousands of people from literally just about every

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<v Speaker 2>country in the world. There's an atmosphere that sort of

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<v Speaker 2>veers between the electric and the frustrated, the board and

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<v Speaker 2>the highly emotional. You are tired of.

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<v Speaker 1>False solutions, we are tired of corporate.

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<v Speaker 2>Of this system. And then of course there's all of

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<v Speaker 2>the energy that's outside the actual venue, that's on the streets,

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<v Speaker 2>that's just circulating around this remarkable global event.

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<v Speaker 1>Really, and I heard a statistic at one point that

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<v Speaker 1>one in every twenty five participants at COP thirty is

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<v Speaker 1>a fossil fuel lobbyist. So is that true? And how

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<v Speaker 1>much influence do those lobby groups have over these talks?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Look, that research came from our good mates at

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<v Speaker 2>Global Witness, and it's a shocking statistic because obviously fossil

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<v Speaker 2>fuels are the number one driver of the climate crisis.

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<v Speaker 2>So why you'd have all these lobbyists loose within the conference.

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<v Speaker 2>It's meant to respond to the crisis. You know, it's

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<v Speaker 2>mystifying to anyone who hears that for the first time.

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<v Speaker 2>The curious thing when you're actually there is people don't

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<v Speaker 2>sort of walk around carrying signs saying I'm a fossil

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<v Speaker 2>fuel lobbyist. And that's because they get access through various means,

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<v Speaker 2>through trade association delegations, through what are called party overflow badges,

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<v Speaker 2>which are the badges that government receives or even as

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<v Speaker 2>part of official country delegations. So there they are, and

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<v Speaker 2>they've got positions of access, and there's no question that

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<v Speaker 2>they're able to have a direct influence on the sorts

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<v Speaker 2>of positions that governments take, which really reflects what's going

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<v Speaker 2>on in the home countries most of the time anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>which is that the fossil fuel lobby is very, very

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<v Speaker 2>active all of the time trying to persuade governments to

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<v Speaker 2>not take the decisions that are in the interests of

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<v Speaker 2>the human race and of nature.

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<v Speaker 1>And just lay out for me, then what it is

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<v Speaker 1>that this summit was meant to achieve, what was the

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<v Speaker 1>goal of COP thirty, what was being negotiated exactly.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a very significant coper. I mean they're all significant,

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<v Speaker 2>but this one marked the first one since a one

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<v Speaker 2>point five degree global temperature mark had been breached over

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<v Speaker 2>the course of a whole year.

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<v Speaker 3>For the first time, warming reached one point five to

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<v Speaker 3>two degrees in the period from February twenty twenty three

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<v Speaker 3>to January twenty twenty four. World leaders have promised in

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<v Speaker 3>twenty fifteen to try to limit the planets long term

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<v Speaker 3>temporatorize to one point five degrees.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the COP by which all the countries should

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<v Speaker 2>have submitted their twenty thirty five climate targets, which are

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<v Speaker 2>absolutely crucial targets for shaping how we're going with global action.

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<v Speaker 1>World leaders are under pressure to present tougher emission reduction

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<v Speaker 1>targets for twenty thirty five ahead of COP thirty in Brazil, thousands.

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<v Speaker 2>Of It was a COP that took place really following

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<v Speaker 2>the fantastic decision from the International Court of Justice or

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<v Speaker 2>the advisory opinion i should say for the International Court

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<v Speaker 2>of Justice, which found that states do have an obligation

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<v Speaker 2>in protecting human rights from climate change.

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<v Speaker 4>Two.

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<v Speaker 1>The Court added that failing to protect the planet from

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<v Speaker 1>the effects of climate change could be a violation of

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<v Speaker 1>international role.

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<v Speaker 2>So, for all of these reasons, the context of the

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<v Speaker 2>COP was highly charged, and it was heralded to be

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<v Speaker 2>a COP where there was going to be a breakthrough

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<v Speaker 2>or hopefully going to be a breakthrough on ending deforestation

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<v Speaker 2>because it was a COP that was being held literally

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<v Speaker 2>in the Amazon as well as hoped by many that

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<v Speaker 2>it was going to be a COP that would really

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<v Speaker 2>give us a breakthrough on a global roadmap for tackling

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<v Speaker 2>fossil fuels and those two things, they are the two

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<v Speaker 2>keys to getting on top of the climate crisis.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, and so at the end of the summer, then

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<v Speaker 1>what was actually agreed.

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<v Speaker 2>Upon, Well, look if it was an agreement that frankly

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<v Speaker 2>did not reflect the needs of the moment. We do

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<v Speaker 2>need transformation at emergency speed and scale, and it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>achieve that. It didn't achieve a new forest action plan,

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<v Speaker 2>and it didn't achieve the kind of breakthrough on climate

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<v Speaker 2>finance that is desperately needed to support these efforts. Those

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<v Speaker 2>key ingredients simply aren't there.

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<v Speaker 4>The COP thirty climates so much in Brazil, ended with

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<v Speaker 4>cheers and applause, but not without misgivings. The deal contained

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<v Speaker 4>no explicit reference to transition away from fossil fuels.

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<v Speaker 2>But it's very important, I think, to not see cops

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<v Speaker 2>as kind of binary things where it's everything or it's nothing,

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<v Speaker 2>Because there were some significant things that came out of

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<v Speaker 2>this COP. The Brazil presidency did commit to the development

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<v Speaker 2>of a new roadmap from transition away from fossil fuels.

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<v Speaker 5>We know some of you had greater ambitions for some

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<v Speaker 5>of the issues that held I, as President of COP thirty,

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<v Speaker 5>will therefore create two roadmaps, one on halting and reverting deforestation,

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<v Speaker 5>another to transitioning away from fossil shools in a just

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<v Speaker 5>orderly and that.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, that is not the same as a formal commitment,

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<v Speaker 2>but it is something that can be worked with. And

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<v Speaker 2>then of course there was the Belm Declaration, which I

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<v Speaker 2>think is actually the great note of hope from the

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<v Speaker 2>COP and certainly of a very great importance for Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, well, let's talk about the declaration. What's in it?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, the Bellum Declaration came from a really significant block

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<v Speaker 2>of more than eighty governments which backed the idea of

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<v Speaker 2>a fossil fuel roadmap, with great leadership coming from Columbia

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<v Speaker 2>and also as always from the Pacific Island nations.

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<v Speaker 5>The COP of the truth cannot support an outcome that

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<v Speaker 5>igno science.

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<v Speaker 2>There is no mitigation if we.

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<v Speaker 5>Cannot discuss transitioning away from fossil fuelm.

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<v Speaker 2>This is something we want to do.

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<v Speaker 4>In response to the lack of a roadmap coming out

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<v Speaker 4>of Vellum.

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<v Speaker 2>We were expecting then a smaller group of twenty four

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<v Speaker 2>countries formally signed on to the declaration, and Australia is

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<v Speaker 2>one of those, and we should be really delighted that

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<v Speaker 2>Australia is one of those twenty four nations. And what's

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<v Speaker 2>in it, Well, it references a transition away from fossil fuels,

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<v Speaker 2>it references the International Court of Justice opinion, and it's

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<v Speaker 2>got a by the standards of these things quite fast

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<v Speaker 2>start in the sense that the first conference for the

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<v Speaker 2>Bellum Declaration is going to occur at the end of

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<v Speaker 2>April in Colombia, and that'll be a really significant moment

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<v Speaker 2>because it starts to give us the big mow. It

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<v Speaker 2>starts to give us some momentum around global cooperation to

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<v Speaker 2>end fossil fuel usage, which is what has been my

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<v Speaker 2>sorely lacking from international climate governance over many years. So

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<v Speaker 2>we need to jump on this. We need to grab

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<v Speaker 2>this momentum and give it as much speed and power

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<v Speaker 2>as we collectively can.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up, what does the Bellum Declaration mean for Australia's

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<v Speaker 1>gas plans?

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<v Speaker 6>So overnight Australia has signed up to the Lem Declaration

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<v Speaker 6>on the Transition of Wave from Fossil fuels. I was

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<v Speaker 6>wondering how that kind of fits with the government's future

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<v Speaker 6>GAT strategy, which stay that natural gas will be needed

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<v Speaker 6>to twenty fifty and beyond.

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<v Speaker 1>A possile fuel.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it is needed. It's a part of the transition

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<v Speaker 2>which is occurring.

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<v Speaker 1>What you need to back up renewables as firming capacity.

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<v Speaker 2>That's what you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So, as you say, Australia signed the Bellum Declaration, but

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<v Speaker 1>almost immediately afterwards Anthony Albanesi told journalists that Australia planned

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<v Speaker 1>to continue to develop new fossil fuel projects. So does

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<v Speaker 1>this declaration does it mean anything?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, I've had a look at the Prime Minister's

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<v Speaker 2>remarks and there is sort of strangely equivocal, kind of

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<v Speaker 2>have your cake and eat it too set of remarks.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's still sinking in to governments all over

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<v Speaker 2>the world that things have to change. Now. What we

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<v Speaker 2>have seen already in Australia is a scale of change

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<v Speaker 2>that some people would have said was unimaginable even as

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<v Speaker 2>much as a decade or two decades ago, in terms

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<v Speaker 2>of the uptake of renewables, that the rapid wind down

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<v Speaker 2>of coal. We are going to have to see a

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<v Speaker 2>similar jump in speed and ambition going forward, and what

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<v Speaker 2>that needs to very practically manifest in is a road

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<v Speaker 2>map for Australia to phase out fossil fuels, including exports,

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<v Speaker 2>at a timeline that is consistent with the Paris Agreement

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<v Speaker 2>and that would be consistent with the BLM declaration.

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<v Speaker 1>And David, I think there is a lot of skepticism

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<v Speaker 1>at this point around what the cop summits can achieve. So,

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<v Speaker 1>having just been what is your assessment of the value

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<v Speaker 1>of these summits now? On balance? Do you think that

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<v Speaker 1>they provide tangible steps forward on climate or do they

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<v Speaker 1>allow countries to say they're doing something meaningful on climate change,

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<v Speaker 1>even if that action doesn't go far enough.

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<v Speaker 2>I think it's a question we should always be asking ourselves.

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<v Speaker 2>But it is possible to take a nuanced view of

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<v Speaker 2>these things and to say yes, there's no doubt that

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<v Speaker 2>some countries do use participation in these things as a

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<v Speaker 2>cloak for inaction, or even as an opportunity to frustrate action.

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<v Speaker 2>And yet when you've got a global problem, it makes

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<v Speaker 2>sense to bring the countries of the world together to

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<v Speaker 2>solve that global problem. And there have been extraordinary breakthroughs

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<v Speaker 2>in international environmental governance over the years, from the preservation

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<v Speaker 2>of Antarctica to the saving of the whales, the Montreal Protocol.

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<v Speaker 2>And there's no doubt as well that if you look

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<v Speaker 2>at the decades now of the unf Triple C process,

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<v Speaker 2>you do see as a consequence of the commitments that

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<v Speaker 2>are made in these negotiations, that projected temperature rise, although

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<v Speaker 2>it is still in the wildly dangerous and unacceptable realm,

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<v Speaker 2>is much reduced from where we were even at the time,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, of the Paris Agreement itself, and then to

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<v Speaker 2>drill down into that just a little bit more, I

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't tell you. It's literally a countless number of meetings

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<v Speaker 2>I have been in over the years where leaders of

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<v Speaker 2>corporations or members of governments of various stripes will look

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<v Speaker 2>you in the eye and tell you that they are

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<v Speaker 2>making the commitments that they are because of the Powis Agreement.

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<v Speaker 2>So we cannot, I think, ever overlook the very significant

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<v Speaker 2>consequences of the steps that have been achieved. But we

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<v Speaker 2>can also have in mind, with great honesty, the frustration

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<v Speaker 2>that the negotiations don't move as fast as the safety

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<v Speaker 2>of the human race and the safety of nature require.

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<v Speaker 1>Well just on that, then let's come back to the

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<v Speaker 1>critical point of what Australia would actually have to do now,

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<v Speaker 1>so in the next twelve months before the next cop

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<v Speaker 1>to meet the commitments that came out of Brazil, including

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<v Speaker 1>the Bellum Declaration.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, there's a great chance just this week for the

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<v Speaker 2>Australian government to get right its approach to the EPBC

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<v Speaker 2>law reforms. That we absolutely need to see our one

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<v Speaker 2>and only piece of federal legislation to protect nature to

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<v Speaker 2>properly embed climate considerations in there, because you can't have

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<v Speaker 2>a credible Nature Protection Act without having some embedding of

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<v Speaker 2>what's going on with climate change. So that's an immediate thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Beyond that, we do need to see a time bound

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<v Speaker 2>plan for fossil fuel phase out and that is simply

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<v Speaker 2>good government. Any government that is not able to look

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<v Speaker 2>the people of Australia in the eye, the business community

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<v Speaker 2>of Australia in the eye and say we need to

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<v Speaker 2>phase out fossil fuels and we've got a plan for

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<v Speaker 2>that is not doing its job. There also needs to

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<v Speaker 2>be an end to new colon gas approvals and across

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<v Speaker 2>the board in policy terms, Australia should be looking to

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<v Speaker 2>see where it can improve it's twenty thirty five target.

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<v Speaker 2>And then the final thing, of course, is every opportunity

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<v Speaker 2>that Australia can play in scaffolding and standing with the

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<v Speaker 2>Pacific island nations that so often have demonstrated leadership on

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<v Speaker 2>climate change. Any opportunity to do that should be taken.

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<v Speaker 1>David, thank you so much for your time.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks very much for having me. Great to Jack.

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<v Speaker 1>Also in the news, people who send deep fakes of

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<v Speaker 1>another person without their consent could face fines of up

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<v Speaker 1>to one hundred and sixty five thousand dollars under a

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<v Speaker 1>new bill introduced to the Senate by Independent Senator David Pocock.

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<v Speaker 1>The plan would see a dedicated complaints mechanism added to

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<v Speaker 1>the Online Safety Act and would grant the E Safety

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<v Speaker 1>Commissioner powers to enforce the removal of deep fakes and

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<v Speaker 1>issue fines. Australians would also be able to two perpetrators directly.

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<v Speaker 1>Senator Pocock says the government has dropped the ball and

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<v Speaker 1>as it stands, unless a deep fake is sexually explicit,

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<v Speaker 1>very little can be done about it, and the Chief

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<v Speaker 1>Executive of the Business Council of Australia, Bran Black, says

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<v Speaker 1>he's confident the government will be able to reach a

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<v Speaker 1>deal with the Coalition on environmental reforms. This week. The

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<v Speaker 1>BCA has been lobbying the Coalition to strike a deal

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<v Speaker 1>which would cut out the Greens. It wants the government

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<v Speaker 1>to weaken the powers of the Environmental Protection Agency, among

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<v Speaker 1>other changes to the proposed laws. He says when the

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<v Speaker 1>laws are passed, they will deliver a net overall benefit

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<v Speaker 1>to business. I'm Ruby Jones. This is seven am. Thanks

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<v Speaker 1>for listening.