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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective see aside of life the average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world.

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Speaker 1: Today's guest, Glen Fisher, has experienced things in his life

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Speaker 1: that no one should have to go through, violence and

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Speaker 1: abuse on a scale that will shock you. I don't

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Speaker 1: even know how to describe what Glenn has been through.

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Speaker 1: Down by his family and let down by the authorities

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Speaker 1: who were meant to be helping him. How he is

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Speaker 1: even alive, I think is a miracle in itself. We

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Speaker 1: discuss heavy topics on I Catch killers, but today, I

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Speaker 1: think it's appropriate to provide a content warning. We'll be

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Speaker 1: discussing child sexual abuse, murder, violence, and a child protection

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Speaker 1: system that failed. Glenn, who was living on the streets

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Speaker 1: in King's Cross been preyed on by predators. Glenn spoke

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Speaker 1: very openly about how he got revenge on the people

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Speaker 1: who sexually abused him, his addiction to drugs, his time's

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Speaker 1: in jail, trying to take his own life, and how

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Speaker 1: he turned his life around so he could help others.

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Speaker 1: Have a listen to what Glenn has been through and

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Speaker 1: his views on life, I think will amaze you. It's

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Speaker 1: a heavy chat, but Glenn's story definitely needs to be told.

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Speaker 1: Glenn Fisher, welcome to I Catchkillers.

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Speaker 2: He may thank you for having me.

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Speaker 1: Good. Well, I'm going to apologize up front because your

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Speaker 1: name has come up to me so many times over

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Speaker 1: the years, and you should get Glenn Fisher on the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and we've got a lot of mutual contacts and friends.

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Speaker 1: And on reflection, I think I sort of shied away

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Speaker 1: from it because I knew your story. I hadn't understanding

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Speaker 1: of your story how heavy it was, and I don't

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Speaker 1: think I was just ready to deal with it and

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Speaker 1: you would understand that, like it's just it's a dark world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and that's honest. Yeah, I appreciate that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I thought, yeah, I've got to reach out

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Speaker 1: to Glenn and then mate Adam Smith, who I first

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Speaker 1: met in prison, he called me and put you straight

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Speaker 1: on the phone. So I was pretty well stuffed and

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Speaker 1: I've got okay, well I can't eide anymore, so I

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Speaker 1: shout out to Adam for bringing this together.

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Speaker 2: What a great man. I love watching people redeem themselves

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Speaker 2: and that's what actually is doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is good, isn't it. It's really good

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Speaker 1: and doing some doing some positive stuff as you are.

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Speaker 1: And we'll talk about that because I think it's quite

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Speaker 1: amazing how you've turned your life around. And we will

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Speaker 1: talk about your childhood and I've got to say it

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Speaker 1: was horrific and yeah that's the thing. Like the childhood

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Speaker 1: you expect to be loved and nurtured and looked after,

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Speaker 1: so you know, to come through what you've come through,

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Speaker 1: it's quite amazing.

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Speaker 2: I think that I've come to an understanding now that

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Speaker 2: my mum specifically was really unwell and my dad well

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Speaker 2: he's just a grub, you know, he's a predator, Like

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Speaker 2: you can't explain that. But I think my mum was

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Speaker 2: very unwell, showed schizophrenia, alcoholic, she suffered with addictions and

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Speaker 2: mental health issues.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well you get that understanding. As you get older,

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Speaker 1: don't you. The world becomes a little bit clearer and

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Speaker 1: you start putting the pieces together of what took place. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, And I think that looking at my own situation

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Speaker 2: and my own circumstances, myself being a parent and knowing

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Speaker 2: that how hard the thing to my life have impacted me.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know. So, in prepping for the podcast, I've

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Speaker 1: watched some of your interviews and read the book and

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Speaker 1: heard you speak, and there's one thing that really jumped

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Speaker 1: out to me, and it's when you confronted one of

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Speaker 1: your abuses, Simon Davies. And we'll talk more and more

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Speaker 1: about that, But you bumped him on the streets of

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Speaker 1: King's Cross and you told him pretty much word for word.

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Speaker 1: I'll read it out one day. I'm going to write

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Speaker 1: a book and expose you, and I will hold you

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Speaker 1: accountable and tell the world what you have done. Now.

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Speaker 1: Simon Davies is a convicted pedophile, but he sort of

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Speaker 1: laughed at you and said you're a junkie. You're not

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Speaker 1: going to be alive by the age of twenty one

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Speaker 1: and you can't even write, So what are you going

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Speaker 1: to do to me?

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Speaker 2: Well both those things were true at the time, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, but the problem was by him saying that,

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Speaker 2: Like I think that it might have been an idle threat. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but when he laughed in my face, I thought, you know,

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Speaker 2: fuck you. I'll come back to you bo. And it

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Speaker 2: took me a while, you know, because I had a

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Speaker 2: heroine habit to deal with and a lot to process.

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Speaker 2: But I did exactly what I said I would do

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Speaker 2: and held him and others accountable. I wrote my book

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Speaker 2: and now I'm telling the world.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well, good on you. And he got convicted. Tell

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Speaker 1: us about where you're from of him? Was it both

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Speaker 1: chance meeting or you saw them out? No?

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Speaker 2: So what happened was he was opposite the train station

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Speaker 2: on the main street of King's Cross and it was

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Speaker 2: just after the loss of my partner at the time

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Speaker 2: that we'll talk about later, and I saw him and

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Speaker 2: this is anger come over him, and I thought, I'm

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Speaker 2: going to say something to this guy. And I walked

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Speaker 2: up and I said, one day I'm going to tell

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Speaker 2: the world what you did, and so one day I'm

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Speaker 2: going to hold you accountable. I said, I'm going to

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Speaker 2: write a book because he was an author, you know,

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Speaker 2: that's what kind of inspired that thought process. And like

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Speaker 2: I said, he just started laughing at me. And you know, you, junkie,

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Speaker 2: you'll be dead by the age of twenty one. You

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Speaker 2: can't even read and write. I had to fill out

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Speaker 2: your forms at the refuge, which took me back, because

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Speaker 2: both those things were true. I was a heroin addict

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Speaker 2: and I couldn't read and write, not properly. I could

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Speaker 2: read him write a little, but I was kind of illiterate.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't that a lot about the type of person he is?

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Speaker 1: Like that like beating down on the virtual kid with

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Speaker 1: all the history and yeah, we're not even dragging dragging

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Speaker 1: in at this stage the fact that the sexual abuse,

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Speaker 1: but the type of person he is, like just crushing.

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Speaker 2: One that's in his way. Yeah, that's exactly him, you know.

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Speaker 2: And as a kid. It's funny because the very things

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Speaker 2: that I've seen him now that I despise were the

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Speaker 2: very things that I admired. And when I first met him,

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Speaker 2: he was articulate, He was clever. He was surrounded by

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Speaker 2: high profile people like prime ministers things like that, so

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Speaker 2: you know, it was easy to impress, you know, a

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Speaker 2: little boy that didn't know the world.

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Speaker 1: That's the creepiness of it, isn't it. Yeah, they put

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Speaker 1: they put themselves in. The perception from the public is

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Speaker 1: that they're fine, up standing citizens, and they couldn't. It

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Speaker 1: couldn't be further from.

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Speaker 2: The truth, that's right. They get themselves into positions of

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Speaker 2: power and positions of trust and attack the most vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that one of my abuses said,

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Speaker 2: they were a wire. I had to wear a wire

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Speaker 2: on one of my abuses, our Grant Morris, and he

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Speaker 2: said in front of them, he said, we targeted pre

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Speaker 2: pubescent children that come from broken homes that no one

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Speaker 2: gives a shit about. And I was sitting with a

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Speaker 2: detective and two undercovered detectives at the time, and everything

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Speaker 2: in my body wanted to jump the counter, you know,

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Speaker 2: and you know, react to that. But I knew that

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Speaker 2: there was a process that he was slowly bringing himself

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Speaker 2: down and we got him well. But Jijuit hurt when

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Speaker 2: he said it, because you know, I wasn't the only one.

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Speaker 2: Then it was people that I love very dearly and

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Speaker 2: that were also kids are abused by these people.

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Speaker 1: And this is the nature of the crime with these predators.

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Speaker 1: It's not a one off thing. And you would have

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Speaker 1: seen you in your time in prison, people that make mistakes,

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Speaker 1: that lash out or something goes wrong. But these people plan,

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Speaker 1: don't They they're predators is the right word for them,

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Speaker 1: because they look for their victims. They're always hunting.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. One of the things the couple said to me

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Speaker 2: once because I didn't want to give evidence. I was

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Speaker 2: scared to go through all that process. And he said

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Speaker 2: to me, Glenn, and he kind of was not right

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Speaker 2: to say, but it worked. He said that every person

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Speaker 2: that he abuses there after you by you not speaking

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Speaker 2: up is kind of on you. You know, if you

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Speaker 2: don't come forward and say something this guy, they go

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Speaker 2: on to continue and and I couldn't live with that, bro,

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Speaker 2: Yeah I couldn't.

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Speaker 1: It's a true thing. But there's a big weight to

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Speaker 1: place once place on you. But you know, you got

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Speaker 1: the results. But just you know, you talk about being angry,

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Speaker 1: and I want to ask you upfront, like speaking to

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Speaker 1: you and getting the sense and there's a calmness about

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Speaker 1: you and how have you let the anger go? Because

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Speaker 1: when people, when our listeners, hear the story of your

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Speaker 1: childhood and what you've been through and then not just

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Speaker 1: through the family environment, but then the people that meant

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Speaker 1: to protect you, I could understand why you would be

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Speaker 1: the most angry human being. If you were still around

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Speaker 1: and not completely broken, you would be angry. How have

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Speaker 1: you managed to let that go?

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Speaker 2: So for a lot of my life, that is who

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Speaker 2: I was. Every little thing or big thing that would happen,

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Speaker 2: my first emotion was always anger, and it was like

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Speaker 2: a child. It was a child like right ah, you know,

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Speaker 2: screaming and yelling like a kid. But what happens is

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Speaker 2: I started treating my trauma and I started working on it.

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Speaker 2: One of the things I realized that anger was a

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Speaker 2: secondary emotion when I started to understand that there was

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Speaker 2: actually something behind my anger, usually resenting, a rejection, hurt,

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Speaker 2: some other kind of feeling. I used to keep a book,

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Speaker 2: a reflections book, and at the end of each day,

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Speaker 2: after any incidents that I'd have, I'd sit down and

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Speaker 2: I'd write it all out, and I started to realize

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Speaker 2: that I'm actually really hurt underneath it's more hurt than anger.

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Speaker 2: I had a lot of rejection in my life, and

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Speaker 2: so they were the feelings i'd feel, and it was

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Speaker 2: like everything in the past, like I'd be again over

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Speaker 2: an apple, something silly, but all of that would come

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Speaker 2: to the apple, if that makes sense. And so I've learned.

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Speaker 2: I've learned to places if something happens now, it's about now,

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Speaker 2: it's not about my past. And I think my having

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Speaker 2: a family has definitely softened me as well. I don't

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Speaker 2: want to see history repeat.

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Speaker 1: Well. Yeah, full credit to you, because I see and

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Speaker 1: a lot of the people have sat in the seat

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Speaker 1: where you're sitting that have had tough upbringings and you understand,

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Speaker 1: but yours is right up there. Yeah, in terms of

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Speaker 1: what happened, tell us about your childhood, like early memories

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Speaker 1: and through just tell us your stories, because I think

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Speaker 1: people are going to be shocked and the maze. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So, I mean, my first memories are in I'm not

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Speaker 2: sure if it was a rehab or a commune or

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Speaker 2: what it was, but we were living in some place

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Speaker 2: and I remember being there. But my parents got chucked

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Speaker 2: out for some reason and we moved to North Sydney,

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Speaker 2: Neutral Bay, I remember that my mum and dad's brand

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Speaker 2: was a pedophile like my dad, and at this there,

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Speaker 2: I just remember all these violent confrontations with my parents

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Speaker 2: where my dad and mum would get drunk and they'd

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Speaker 2: physically fired each other. They would always call me out

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Speaker 2: to referee, you know, the oldest of the kids, Glenn,

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Speaker 2: come out here, come out here, And then I'd go

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Speaker 2: out and there's no winning, Gary, Like, no matter which

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Speaker 2: side I choose, I've lost to the other, you know

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Speaker 2: what I mean. But the violence, like in North Sydney,

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Speaker 2: in the first violent incident that I remember was my

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Speaker 2: mom and dad had this huge, big fire screaming and

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Speaker 2: yelling at each other, and then my mom told me

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Speaker 2: to go with my dad. So I went and got

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Speaker 2: in the car with my dad in this white youth

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Speaker 2: and we're driving around the corner and then just randomly

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Speaker 2: he reaches over, opens the door and just goes boot

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Speaker 2: and kicks me straight out of the car like I

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Speaker 2: don't know how fast it was going, but I remember

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Speaker 2: skidding along the road and taking all skin off my shoulders,

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Speaker 2: my elbows, and it was like and that's like it

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Speaker 2: gets worse. The violence in my life was just you know,

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Speaker 2: it just gets worse. But what happens is in nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventy we moved him out through it. And what ends

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Speaker 2: up happening first is that I come home from school,

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Speaker 2: so all the first thing that happens is I'm sitting

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Speaker 2: outside of our house and a guy gets shot dead.

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Speaker 2: A guy shoots his brother in the house directly across

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Speaker 2: from where we were, and I'm just sitting on the

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Speaker 2: brand of watching it, and nobody sort of pulled me inside.

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Speaker 1: How old are we talk?

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Speaker 2: Five?

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Speaker 1: So that when you've been kicked the out of the car,

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Speaker 1: you are a little boy?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, an absolute infant. Yeah. But the reason I talk

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Speaker 2: about the guy getting shot dead was because about a

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Speaker 2: week after that, I was walking up my street from

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Speaker 2: kindergarten to come home and I saw a bullwagon out

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Speaker 2: the front of my house. And I'm now seven, And

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Speaker 2: what happened is, as I'm walking up the driveway and

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Speaker 2: see the bullagon out the front of my house, I think,

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Speaker 2: what's going on? As someone hurt my dad, as someone

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Speaker 2: hurt my mom, have they hurt my siblings? So I

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Speaker 2: kind of rush in. My dad's been arrested for pedophilia charges.

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Speaker 2: He's in the back of the car and drunk talking

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Speaker 2: to the police, and the screaming and yelling and stuff,

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Speaker 2: and I'm buzzing around like what's going on? What's going on?

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Speaker 2: You know, like a kid does. I could comprehended. And

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Speaker 2: the funny thing was this pit all the violence in

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Speaker 2: my life, I still had this deep love for my

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Speaker 2: dad and my mom, you know, I just did. But

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Speaker 2: the other thing I remember was lots of promiscuity around

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Speaker 2: my mum and dad's brand, who was a pedophile. Was

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Speaker 2: what was actually happening was he was abusing me, and

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Speaker 2: my dad was abusing his kids. And I have pickbacks

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Speaker 2: and flashbacks sorry of him getting me to get on

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Speaker 2: top of his two daughters whose names I won't say,

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Speaker 2: but you know, I have all these kind of memories.

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Speaker 2: But what ends up happening is my dad gets taken

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Speaker 2: to jail and we get taken to an orphanage in

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Speaker 2: Luis and they dump us in this Luis my mom.

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Speaker 2: We get out about a week or so later, and

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Speaker 2: then we get put back again. My mum slashes up.

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Speaker 2: She cuts one hundred stitches in one arm, one hundred

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Speaker 2: and twenty and the other she goes through a window

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Speaker 2: or something and gets you know, stitches in her arms.

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Speaker 2: She ends up getting my two younger SIPs out, at

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Speaker 2: least my brother and I there. But it's when we

286
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Speaker 2: come out that life really takes a turn for the worst.

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Speaker 2: I go back to live with my mother. The first

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Speaker 2: incident is my mother's ever heard of Beck's and Vincent powders?

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Speaker 1: No? I remember them, yea, in the little yellow boxes.

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Speaker 2: Well, mister Whipby trucks back then used to bring them,

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Speaker 2: and she could hear the ding ding ding of the

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Speaker 2: mister Whiby trunk, you know. So suddenly she's scurring around

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Speaker 2: the house looking for coin, and I'm sitting in the

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Speaker 2: laund room and she goes, you stole my money off,

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Speaker 2: you didn't, your little sea, And I'm like, I didn't

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Speaker 2: take nothing. I wouldn't have had the courage to do that,

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Speaker 2: you know. She says, Oh, cut your fingers off if

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Speaker 2: you did, you know, And I'd like and anyways, she

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Speaker 2: picks up a carving knife and just goes, whush, strows

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Speaker 2: it at me. I like, literally moves from a big

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Speaker 2: sharp carving knife. And then this other girl comes to

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Speaker 2: the door and she goes, help me get this little

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Speaker 2: prick in the bathroom, and then they're dragging me down

304
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Speaker 2: to the bathroom and she literally holds me over like

305
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Speaker 2: you can see the scars on my finger. She literally

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Speaker 2: holds my fingers over the edge of this scene and

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Speaker 2: she puts the knife against it and just pushes. And

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Speaker 2: she didn't really cat she just push it and just

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Speaker 2: set it straight into some of my fingers and then bang.

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Speaker 2: I just dropped to the floor. And it was the

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Speaker 2: first time, like that was a whole new level of

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Speaker 2: violence that I had experienced. I've been hit, punch, kick,

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Speaker 2: you name it.

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Speaker 1: This is with a weapon. This is a very control

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Speaker 1: drag you in through the bathroom.

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Speaker 2: And the friend that yeah, I can still can't believe

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Speaker 2: that she held How are we talking? Well, she am,

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Speaker 2: I I'm so nine. I'm nine years old when this happened.

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Speaker 2: And the young girl she's only fifteen. So I've only

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Speaker 2: just found out that my mother had a relationship with

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Speaker 2: this young girl, right, so that you know, she's kind

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Speaker 2: of a victim too, if that kind of makes sense.

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Speaker 2: But when the path that angers me about it the

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Speaker 2: most is when they took me to the hospital. I've

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Speaker 2: got a doctor on this side sitching my finger up.

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Speaker 2: I've got a lady on this side. I've got carpet

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Speaker 2: boon all over me from being dragged on the carpet.

328
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Speaker 2: She's dabbing and tapping me and stuff. And then the

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Speaker 2: doctor says to him, and what happened to this little boy?

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Speaker 2: She's screaming her head off and then bang, both silent.

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Speaker 2: Not another word said people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going back a long long time, and

333
00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:56,320
Speaker 1: the world was a different place. But that's where we

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Speaker 1: failed the kids, wasn't Yeah, a doctor, and it's probably

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Speaker 1: easier just to say nothing, say nothing and turn a

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Speaker 1: blind eye to it. And I think it's because it's

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00:15:06,600 --> 00:15:09,640
Speaker 1: so confronting to people, and I get that, yeah, but

338
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Speaker 1: it's no excuse. I honestly I've mentioned I don't know

339
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Speaker 1: your thoughts on it, but I think we should go

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Speaker 1: after people that know. Too often i've heard kids being

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Speaker 1: sexually assaulted and it's not just the predator that's doing

342
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Speaker 1: the sexual assault. Other people knew about it. And I

343
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Speaker 1: think we need to make a law on that that

344
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Speaker 1: you can be an accessory to murder, you can aid

345
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Speaker 1: in a bet, that type of thing. I think if

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Speaker 1: you know that a child's been sexually abused, not just

347
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Speaker 1: like teachers or the rules of the board. In now,

348
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Speaker 1: I think there's an onus on everyone and if you

349
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Speaker 1: turn a blind eye to it, you should be potentially

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Speaker 1: held responsible for that.

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Speaker 2: One of the things that I've always maintained and I'll

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00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 2: save until the day I die. I hold more anger.

353
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Speaker 2: And you're here as my story goes, those who are

354
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Speaker 2: complicit in you and did nothing than those who actually

355
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Speaker 2: abuse me. Those who abuse me, I can put that

356
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Speaker 2: in a box. I can get that. But the ones

357
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:08,880
Speaker 2: that know and stand by and do nothing at all,

358
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Speaker 2: I can't fathom that. As a father, as a man,

359
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:14,320
Speaker 2: as a human. You know, if I see something wrong,

360
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,440
Speaker 2: I step in. I step in, you know, And I

361
00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:20,200
Speaker 2: just can't understand how people through my story and as

362
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Speaker 2: you're here, as we go along, there are so many

363
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,400
Speaker 2: of them, and people in positions of absolute power who

364
00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:26,360
Speaker 2: could have done something.

365
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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's no excuse that they all need to take

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Speaker 1: a long, hard look at themselves. And I've stepped in

367
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Speaker 1: on things whilst in the cops and even rolls outside

368
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Speaker 1: the cops. And it doesn't make you popular, and it's

369
00:16:37,960 --> 00:16:40,440
Speaker 1: ugly and it's messy, but it's the right thing to do.

370
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:41,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And I'm sick of people saying, oh, well, it wasn't

372
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Speaker 1: our business, and it's everyone's business to protect.

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Speaker 2: Kids, absolutely every single person's responsibility.

374
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Speaker 1: So the family friend, when you were first sexually assaulted,

375
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Speaker 1: what was the dynamics there? How did they ovocate what happened?

376
00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,760
Speaker 1: Just after the severing of the fingers? He comes over

377
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Speaker 1: to visit.

378
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Speaker 2: And so one of the things my mother was doing

379
00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,040
Speaker 2: was giving me sleeping pills to sleep all the time,

380
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:09,720
Speaker 2: because apparently it was hyperactive. That's what it says in

381
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Speaker 2: my dog's files. So you're giving me these sleeping pills,

382
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Speaker 2: and one night, I'm asleep in my bed and all

383
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Speaker 2: of a sudden, I wake up and I'm being sexually

384
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Speaker 2: abused from behind. And when I wake up, grabs my face,

385
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,480
Speaker 2: puts his hand around my mouth and just goes really

386
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Speaker 2: hard and then lets me go. And like I'm nine

387
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Speaker 2: years old, I don't even know what's happening or what's

388
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:29,440
Speaker 2: happened to me. I just know that I'm in a

389
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Speaker 2: lot of pain, and there's a lot of gray stuff

390
00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,480
Speaker 2: going on from that, you know, including bleeding, you know it.

391
00:17:34,760 --> 00:17:37,320
Speaker 2: And I remember sitting on my bed, rocking back and forth,

392
00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,440
Speaker 2: like trying to process what's just happened to me. And

393
00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:44,080
Speaker 2: I remember walking across to the bathroom and seeing my mother,

394
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Speaker 2: you know, on the n like the noses on the

395
00:17:46,640 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 2: blink and and he's taken advantage of that moment and

396
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:51,440
Speaker 2: bang come into my room and done what he's done.

397
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Speaker 2: And it was like I had that happen at the

398
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Speaker 2: Saint just lot long after my fingers had just been severed.

399
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Speaker 2: So that's two serious things that have happened, you know.

400
00:17:58,359 --> 00:17:58,840
Speaker 1: And it was like.

401
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:04,679
Speaker 2: I went from this bubbly little boy to silent, literally silent,

402
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:06,520
Speaker 2: like I just I was like I was walking on

403
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:09,560
Speaker 2: eggshells everywhere I went. I was so afraid of getting backhanded, hit,

404
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,640
Speaker 2: slap punched, or sexually abused that I just ceased being

405
00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:16,359
Speaker 2: a person. I was just like this little shadow getting around.

406
00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,560
Speaker 1: You wouldn't know what life was about, would you. You

407
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:22,200
Speaker 1: wouldn't have no understanding like where's your reference point, where's

408
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:24,760
Speaker 1: the people that you can trust or guide you. But

409
00:18:25,359 --> 00:18:29,840
Speaker 1: and with that you touched on it early that your father,

410
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:33,520
Speaker 1: who was a convicted pedophile who has taken away this

411
00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:37,480
Speaker 1: was his mate and they were swapping swapping their kids,

412
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Speaker 1: that's right.

413
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:41,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, And he also was very violent. His violence looked

414
00:18:41,359 --> 00:18:43,600
Speaker 2: different to my mom. My Mum's a volatile, drunk violent

415
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:45,920
Speaker 2: you know, she just suddenly would explode. My dad was

416
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Speaker 2: more contained.

417
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Speaker 1: You'd like.

418
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:48,920
Speaker 2: I used to sit like this next to my dad

419
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,960
Speaker 2: all the time because suddenly my face would just go

420
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,320
Speaker 2: numb and he'd backhand. It'd be something I'd done weeks ago,

421
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,840
Speaker 2: three weeks ago, you didn't do whatever. You know, I'm

422
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,159
Speaker 2: bang and my face would go numbs. My nose is

423
00:18:58,240 --> 00:19:00,520
Speaker 2: like that from being hit so many times dad, you know.

424
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,159
Speaker 2: And it's like I just I was so afraid as

425
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,040
Speaker 2: the kid. And what made it worse was when I

426
00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,880
Speaker 2: went to school, people had learned that if they did

427
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,480
Speaker 2: that to me. I was doing this my whole childhood.

428
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:12,680
Speaker 2: I was chumping all the time, and people thought it

429
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:15,440
Speaker 2: was funny. And I mean their kids, they don't know, they.

430
00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,360
Speaker 1: Would know, but I could imagine that would be hilarious

431
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:18,120
Speaker 1: for kids.

432
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. And they're doing it to me all the time,

433
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,800
Speaker 2: and I literally it's like I know they're going to

434
00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:24,240
Speaker 2: do it. I know my body's going to react, and

435
00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 2: I'm literally concentrating training not to do it, but I

436
00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,960
Speaker 2: just couldn't stop. It was like an involuntary reaction to

437
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:31,159
Speaker 2: that trauma.

438
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 1: While this was going on, Did any teachers or anyone

439
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 1: get a sense of what's going on? Were you're taking

440
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,439
Speaker 1: the school counselors? Did they even have school counselors back then.

441
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:44,440
Speaker 2: It's the saddest part of my story is it's documented.

442
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:47,119
Speaker 2: I have pages like you've got that book, I've got

443
00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,880
Speaker 2: dogs files, and it literally Glenn has a black eye,

444
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:53,480
Speaker 2: Glenn has, you know, like there's so many reported incidents,

445
00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,480
Speaker 2: Glenn's mother has. Glenn's been telling us that his mother's

446
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,160
Speaker 2: giving and sleeping tablets to make him sleep. Like it's

447
00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 2: all documented. It's literally or documented. I never said the

448
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,560
Speaker 2: words I'm being rape, but I said they're hurting me.

449
00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,480
Speaker 2: That's the words I used. That's a child's word. You know,

450
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 2: they're hurting me. But they just kept putting me back.

451
00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,080
Speaker 2: But in nineteen seventy two, a psychologist, after my mother

452
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:17,440
Speaker 2: went into hospital for that said said, these children must

453
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 2: be removed from this severely disturbing home. That's the word,

454
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:23,600
Speaker 2: severely disturbing home. And yet two weeks later, again we're

455
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:27,879
Speaker 2: returned to this violent psychopath. And as much as I like,

456
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,720
Speaker 2: I feel sad for my mother, what she was doing

457
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,200
Speaker 2: to me and doing to us kids, me specifically, was

458
00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:37,800
Speaker 2: just beyond comprehension. It was, you know, you couldn't write

459
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:38,200
Speaker 2: this stuff.

460
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:42,120
Speaker 1: No, well, that's why I said at the start, people

461
00:20:42,119 --> 00:20:44,440
Speaker 1: are going to be shocked by what you what you've

462
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,440
Speaker 1: gone through with the When your father was charged with

463
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:53,200
Speaker 1: the sexual assault of children, did he get the custodial sentence, Yeah,

464
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:54,840
Speaker 1: so he was out of the family home.

465
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was out of the family home until I

466
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,000
Speaker 2: don't know. He's the one actually got out of thee.

467
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,680
Speaker 2: So my mother came twice to Luciam to get us out,

468
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 2: and then my dad when he got out of jail,

469
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,359
Speaker 2: he got us out. But then as soon as he

470
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 2: got us out and they learned wind of that, he

471
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 2: got put back with my mom straight away. So, you know,

472
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 2: I've never been able to trace the charges. I know

473
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:16,639
Speaker 2: he's been charged twice, and people ain't give me that

474
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,600
Speaker 2: information because it's on my dad, which is frustrating. But

475
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:22,480
Speaker 2: I know what I know. I know what I remember,

476
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 2: and it was consistent.

477
00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,560
Speaker 1: And it was all that he's passed away there.

478
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,240
Speaker 2: My dad died just before Christmas last year, and my

479
00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 2: brother within days of each other. One had a brain

480
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,720
Speaker 2: tumor and my dad died of body luid dementia. I

481
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,800
Speaker 2: actually went up there Gary, and my sister reached out

482
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,800
Speaker 2: and said, Dad's going to die. He's got Louis dementia.

483
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:40,480
Speaker 2: And I didn't know much about dementia, and I thought,

484
00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 2: I'm going to go up and I had all this

485
00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 2: stuff I wanted to stay, you know. I say this,

486
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 2: and I say that, and I'm driving up there and

487
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 2: I'm crying, like, you know, I want to get this

488
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 2: out of me, you know. And then I walked in

489
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,520
Speaker 2: and my memories of this big, strong man and what

490
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:56,000
Speaker 2: I saw was this tiny, fragile man took fifteen minutes

491
00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 2: to get one side of the bed to the other.

492
00:21:57,720 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 2: I actually made a video on social media about it.

493
00:22:00,040 --> 00:22:03,119
Speaker 2: And I just sat down and I breathed out, and

494
00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,760
Speaker 2: I said, you know what, I forgive you. And I

495
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:07,919
Speaker 2: had to like hurts me saying it, but I had

496
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 2: to forgive him Gary, because I've got a family and

497
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:15,000
Speaker 2: I was carrying that and gave me so deeply, and

498
00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,719
Speaker 2: I thought, I'm not forgiving him for him, I'm forgiving

499
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 2: for me so that I can have some peace and

500
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,080
Speaker 2: have some sort of life going forward.

501
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:26,200
Speaker 1: I get that then yeah, sometimes it seems counterintuitive that you,

502
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,840
Speaker 1: how do I forgive an asshole that's done done what

503
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:33,720
Speaker 1: he's done done to you? But it's about you. You're

504
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: going to let the angered destroyer that you're going to

505
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: Your revenge is the fact that you live a good life.

506
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 1: And to say if that helps you to say you

507
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 1: forgive him, yeah, good, that's right.

508
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:47,760
Speaker 2: And I started to see one of the worst things

509
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 2: in our world from my perspective, is generational trauma, generational abuse,

510
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,199
Speaker 2: generational all the things of generational labor. And that's going

511
00:22:55,280 --> 00:22:57,240
Speaker 2: to be my story because of the way I was acting,

512
00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,560
Speaker 2: and I was fighting every man that I couldn't care

513
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 2: about win or not. I just need I'd had so

514
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,160
Speaker 2: much anger, and then I realized what I was doing

515
00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,200
Speaker 2: was having an impact on people I love, and I

516
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,119
Speaker 2: knew I had to do something about this, you know,

517
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,240
Speaker 2: or history will repeat and because that's what happens, you know,

518
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,240
Speaker 2: hurt people, hurt people, even within our intent, you know,

519
00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 2: and it might look different each time. And for me,

520
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,600
Speaker 2: it was attacking people all over the place. And it's like,

521
00:23:21,080 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 2: and what I used to do is I target someone

522
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:24,360
Speaker 2: that bullied someone else, and it was like a way

523
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,720
Speaker 2: to justify right here, so I can jump in and

524
00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 2: do this, you know. And but at the end of

525
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,120
Speaker 2: the day, it was something.

526
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,520
Speaker 1: In me that was needed, and a lot of people

527
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,399
Speaker 1: do channel it that way, and you were seeing that

528
00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:37,200
Speaker 1: in prison a lot a lot of the people. And

529
00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:42,920
Speaker 1: you talk big, heavy muscle up tatooed bikis, yeah, a lot.

530
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,560
Speaker 1: When you scrape the surface, it's from something that's happened

531
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,000
Speaker 1: in their past, and they're they're reacting with anger. You know.

532
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: There's there's this conception and you know, I think there's

533
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: some merit to it that if you've been abuse, you

534
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 1: possibly could abuse again. But that's not necessarily the case.

535
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,920
Speaker 1: You steer that in other ways, dysfunction ways.

536
00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. The actra statistics around that are actually

537
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:06,879
Speaker 2: quite low. It's quite bizarre, but you are right. What

538
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,720
Speaker 2: happened is it will manifest in some way. I quite

539
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,200
Speaker 2: quite often talk to a lot of addicts with the

540
00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: stuff that I do now, and I keep telling them

541
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:17,560
Speaker 2: that your addiction is a symptom of something much deeper.

542
00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,879
Speaker 2: For me, that was trauma, you know, and we need

543
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 2: to find out what that is in each person, because

544
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,160
Speaker 2: it looks like you said, different in each person.

545
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,399
Speaker 1: To treat it. Yeah. The homes that you were placed in,

546
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: were they orphany? Just?

547
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: What?

548
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 1: Were they all temporary accommodation? What was the places where?

549
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:36,320
Speaker 1: What's your sequence of events from there? Because you went

550
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:37,880
Speaker 1: here and went out a few different times.

551
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 2: Yeah. So up to the age of seven, we were

552
00:24:39,480 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 2: removed twenty two times and return twenty two times back

553
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 2: to my parents. At the age of seven, I was

554
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: put into an orphanage and then returned to my mum.

555
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:48,920
Speaker 2: Then I was moved to my dad at the age

556
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,399
Speaker 2: of ten. At twelve, I started running away. I'd had

557
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,160
Speaker 2: a gupful of it, and of course running away back

558
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: then was a crime. It was called uncontrollable. So I

559
00:24:56,840 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 2: was charged with the crime of uncontrollable. I was put

560
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 2: in first war Am I Yasmar, then Dearrek, Derek boys

561
00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:05,320
Speaker 2: Aim And I'll never understand how you take a child

562
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,560
Speaker 2: who's running away from violence and CSA sexual abuse to

563
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,840
Speaker 2: be placed into an institution that is equally violent with

564
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,680
Speaker 2: sexual abuse. It's like it felt like I had it

565
00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:17,240
Speaker 2: written on my fucking forehead. And I'm sorry for swearing,

566
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 2: but that's how I feel. I had the misfortune Gary

567
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 2: of when I was a little boy of looking like

568
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 2: a pretty little girl. And it's just what that's why

569
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 2: I was wired. And so when I was in Yasma,

570
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,040
Speaker 2: like they, I was arrested with my brother and we're

571
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 2: putting to the junior side. And what actually happens is

572
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 2: they moved me to the senior side because someone in

573
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:38,280
Speaker 2: there in wisdom decided we're going to separate siblings because

574
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: they're a power couple. So I get put onto the

575
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,439
Speaker 2: senior side when I'm only thirteen. We're fifteen, sixteen, seventeen

576
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 2: year olds. And while nothing happened in Yasma, what did

577
00:25:46,480 --> 00:25:49,000
Speaker 2: happen was people kept jumping in my bed when I'd

578
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,680
Speaker 2: have a shower, They'd grab me, touch me, you know,

579
00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,360
Speaker 2: I look at this, They'd massivate beside me, and I'm like, well,

580
00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 2: you know, and I as a little kid, I'm still

581
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:56,720
Speaker 2: not comprehending why.

582
00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: People How old are these other kids you're in with?

583
00:25:59,280 --> 00:25:59,680
Speaker 2: Sixteen?

584
00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: Not right? So completely different different stages.

585
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. I mean I'm pretty prebesdent, you

586
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 2: know what I mean? These you know, these are kids

587
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 2: that are completely different stages. And they all thought it's

588
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 2: a big joke and a laugh, but it set the

589
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:14,000
Speaker 2: precedent for the next introduction I went to, which is Derek,

590
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 2: where I was abused twice, very savagely, one time in

591
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 2: my bed and once in a boiler room where and

592
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 2: obviously literally walks out of the room and leaves six

593
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: guys with me, like six like almost adults, you know,

594
00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:27,400
Speaker 2: and this little tiny boy and turning the blind eye

595
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 2: to it, turning a blind eye to it, you know.

596
00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 2: And like again, I just went silent. I was this

597
00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 2: silent kid, and happening is like I've not had any

598
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: violence in my life until Derek. What happened was the

599
00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:39,199
Speaker 2: guy asked me to have an arm wrestle with him,

600
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,280
Speaker 2: and I beat him in chess first, and then they said, oh,

601
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:42,879
Speaker 2: you couldn't beat Fisher in an arm wrestle, so give

602
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,520
Speaker 2: him his arm wrestle. In some reason, I've just gone

603
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,040
Speaker 2: bang and put him straight down. He's gone bang and

604
00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 2: can hit me. I lost my shit, and it's the

605
00:26:49,480 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 2: first time in my life I just it was like

606
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 2: that song cowd of the County and everything just come

607
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:54,960
Speaker 2: out of me. In one game, something I was told me,

608
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: you were reading Tommy wrong. They're reading me wrong, because

609
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 2: I just I just keep lashing the people are pulling

610
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 2: me off, and I'm going back. I actually grabbed a chair,

611
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,399
Speaker 2: like I just I lost it. And it was like

612
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,160
Speaker 2: all of my rage was in that one. They poured

613
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 2: into that. You know. It was the first time I

614
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 2: realized I was more capable than I had thought o

615
00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 2: my life. I'd been like people went like this to me.

616
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,920
Speaker 2: I did the I jumped, and I always had my

617
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,480
Speaker 2: hands up like, don't let me hurt me. Don't. Yeah,

618
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,199
Speaker 2: that's right. And because every time I even moved as

619
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:24,399
Speaker 2: a kid, I just the violence was so much that

620
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 2: I spent a whole lot of my life counting, you know.

621
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 2: And so that continued on as a child through these interests.

622
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,040
Speaker 1: When you unleash like that, did that change the dynamics

623
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: for you.

624
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 2: So what happened was there was this boy and I

625
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 2: won't say his name, but he was an older indigenous boy.

626
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 2: And when he got up, he put his hand on

627
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 2: my head and he said, this little boy, he's got

628
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 2: more ticket than half of your pricks in here. And

629
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,720
Speaker 2: he said, the next one that puts their hand on

630
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 2: this kid, he said, they're going to deal with me.

631
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 2: And no one touched me again, but no one talked

632
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 2: to me either. I just became like, you know, I'm

633
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: not there. You know that was okay. I was as

634
00:27:53,840 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 2: long as people were in touching me, hitting me, hurting me,

635
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 2: I was okay with that.

636
00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,800
Speaker 1: So how how long were you in and out of

637
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:00,960
Speaker 1: the system for like that?

638
00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 2: From the age of seven to the age of about fourteen,

639
00:28:04,119 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: I was in and out pretty much a fair bit.

640
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: Okay, there was one I heard you talk about one

641
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,000
Speaker 1: place when you were released from the system and you

642
00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:14,160
Speaker 1: went and you thought, oh, this is good. I'm being

643
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,560
Speaker 1: put in the house and there was nine adults or

644
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,440
Speaker 1: nine people living in there, and you were sleeping in

645
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,879
Speaker 1: a room with two adult male pedophiles.

646
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,199
Speaker 2: That's right. So what actually happened was I ran as

647
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 2: soon as I got out of Direk. My dad picked

648
00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:27,400
Speaker 2: me up, and as soon as we got back to Gosford,

649
00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 2: I'm not doing this anymore. I don't want to be

650
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: in a home and I don't want to be in

651
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 2: a home of violence. I'm sick of being hurt, and

652
00:28:32,440 --> 00:28:34,399
Speaker 2: I knew that it was going to continue, so I

653
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: just wanted to stop it. So I actually ran away

654
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: two docks and I went up and saw an office

655
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:40,600
Speaker 2: and at the Mount drew a Dock's office and I said, look,

656
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:42,520
Speaker 2: I said, I'm not trying to be a bad boy.

657
00:28:42,800 --> 00:28:44,840
Speaker 2: I'm not trying to run away or cause trouble. I said,

658
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:47,360
Speaker 2: I'm scared and I'm sick of being hurt. Helped me

659
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 2: and he said, oh well, he rings around. He comes

660
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 2: back and he said, I've got a foster family for

661
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: you in Mount Drew. It. Now, what I don't know

662
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: is prior to my going there, one kid's been shot

663
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 2: dead in their custody. Another girl has been abused in

664
00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: their care. There's two men with prior convictions in his house. Yeah,

665
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 2: kids in three bedroom house. Nine people have lived there.

666
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,560
Speaker 2: It's like they're using foster kids to make make money,

667
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 2: lose a payment that you know, and buying her house

668
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,800
Speaker 2: pretty much with all of us kids. But I get

669
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,160
Speaker 2: put into this room with three adult men and me

670
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:23,120
Speaker 2: a little boy, and it didn't take long before he

671
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 2: starts touching and hurting me, you know. And I stayed

672
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: in that house for about five or six months. Then

673
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 2: what happened is I'm just sick of her. And my

674
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 2: mum turns up drunk one day out the back, tries

675
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,400
Speaker 2: to have a fight with them all and then about

676
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,200
Speaker 2: a month after that, because the dogs will come in

677
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 2: taking me on visits with my siblings. She says, oh,

678
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:41,959
Speaker 2: we're moving South Australia. She said, I've got a new

679
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 2: boyfriend who's got a job, and I want to bring

680
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,160
Speaker 2: the family back together and try and be a mum.

681
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 2: And I'm like sold, I mean, all I want to

682
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 2: do is be my siblings. You're looking for Yeah, I'm

683
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: looking to be loved by my mum and my siblings.

684
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: You know.

685
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: We get to we stop at every pub all the

686
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: way to Save Australia. She's drinking and when we get there,

687
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,440
Speaker 2: her boyfriend and her have a big punch on in

688
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,280
Speaker 2: the caravan park. So my brother and I thirteen or fourteen,

689
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:08,480
Speaker 2: we try to jump in and fight for my mum

690
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: ends up happening and she ends up kicking us out.

691
00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:13,000
Speaker 2: We get put on a bus back to Oxford Street

692
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: to meet my real dad in OxyS Street. I get

693
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,120
Speaker 2: off the bus and we're starve and gary. We haven't

694
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 2: eaten for, you know, probably three or four days, and

695
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: I'm really hungry and I'm walking behind my dad with

696
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 2: my brother, and then all of a sudden, my dad

697
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: stops and he turns around and says, where the fuck

698
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:27,840
Speaker 2: you think you're gone? He said, piss off. He said,

699
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,400
Speaker 2: you can't go to your foster family. I don't want you,

700
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 2: you know, go away. And I remember sitting on Oxford

701
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 2: Street in this bus terminal and I was just sobbing,

702
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: and I was like, I don't have anywhere to go.

703
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 2: I don't have the foster family. Now, I don't you

704
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: know if everybody gave. People are hurting me. I literally

705
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 2: don't know what to do. And this man comes and

706
00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 2: sit down beside me, a predator, you know. And I'm

707
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 2: a big, strong looking guy, but talks really softly. Are

708
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,280
Speaker 2: you okay a little fella? Can I buy you something

709
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: to eat? And like, I'm so susceptible to any kind

710
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: of attention or love that I just into this man's charm.

711
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: But something twigged me as we're walking up Oxford Street.

712
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,320
Speaker 2: We walk up these stairs. All I've got is a

713
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: little bag with a T shirt and a pair of

714
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,920
Speaker 2: shorts in it. That's my life. And I'm walking up

715
00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 2: there and I said, I'm not going to come in,

716
00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:16,240
Speaker 2: miss so I don't want to go in. And I

717
00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 2: pulled a bag away and I started to walk and

718
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: he grabs my hand and he ends up getting the

719
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:21,920
Speaker 2: bag off me, and then I just ran and I

720
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 2: ran all the way down, got to Central Station and

721
00:31:24,080 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 2: went back to my foster family, who didn't want me,

722
00:31:27,200 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 2: you know. So they drove me to Mount Drew a

723
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,120
Speaker 2: train station, gave me five bucks, and they rang a

724
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 2: refuge in King's Cross called the Opposition Use Refuge. And

725
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,000
Speaker 2: there was my journey about to go to kings Cross,

726
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: you know. And it was like, do you know when

727
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,960
Speaker 2: I walked out that train station. I mean, I'm fourteen,

728
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: you know what a fourteen's I think we know everything.

729
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:46,120
Speaker 2: I remember walking out that station. I thought, no one's

730
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,240
Speaker 2: going to ever hurt me again. That's it. It's over.

731
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,480
Speaker 2: No person will ever touch me, control me, or hurt

732
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 2: me again. Little did I know, I was walking out

733
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,960
Speaker 2: of the potton into the fire. You know. I was

734
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 2: literally walking into our predator's paradise. The place was alittered

735
00:31:59,000 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 2: with him.

736
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:02,040
Speaker 1: Hence the name me your book.

737
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, paradise.

738
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: Okay, So for thean you and look, this is a

739
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,520
Speaker 1: story that people. We know it in a general sense.

740
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:11,680
Speaker 1: Everyone hears about the kids that end up on the

741
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,480
Speaker 1: streets of King King's Cross, But this is your story

742
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,120
Speaker 1: on how you ended up there and the horrors that

743
00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 1: you've seen and been involved in the lead up to that.

744
00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: You get the King's Cross as Forten take us through

745
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:23,920
Speaker 1: that journey.

746
00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 2: So when I first get there, like, I'm curious, So

747
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 2: I go into every building all the way out the

748
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 2: left and every building all the way out the right.

749
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 2: You know, I want to know what's going.

750
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 1: On, the bright lights all that, the people around. So

751
00:32:33,720 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: you're thinking, okay, well.

752
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, the weird, the wonderful, the colorful. You know, it

753
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 2: was like it was crazy. But what really got me

754
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 2: was I met a whole lot of different kids that

755
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 2: were on the street just like me, and and I

756
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 2: didn't have to be tough, I didn't have to be handsome,

757
00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:48,000
Speaker 2: I didn't have to be anything. I could just be green.

758
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 2: And I fitted into this little group where we lived

759
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,160
Speaker 2: in this squat. And as you've probably read it in

760
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,040
Speaker 2: my book, and I'm going to try my hardest, but

761
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:55,800
Speaker 2: I actually get really emotional when I talk about her.

762
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 2: I met a beautiful girl. Her name was Linda. Yeah,

763
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 2: and you know, she just like me, and I loved her.

764
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 2: It was my first girlfriend. I'd never had a friend.

765
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: Later girlfriend, you know what, I mean, here, I've got

766
00:33:05,520 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: this girlfriend that's just enamored with me, who was stunning,

767
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 2: absolutely stunning, you know, and we were staying in squats

768
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: and running around the st I mean, we're playing chasings

769
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 2: on the main street of King's Cross.

770
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: So how many kids are we talking about? And what

771
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: were their stories? What were their backgrounds?

772
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:22,600
Speaker 2: Very similar? So we had a group of about twelve

773
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,080
Speaker 2: that was in our specific group, but there was lots

774
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:27,360
Speaker 2: and lots of kids in multiple groups around the street.

775
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 1: What is it that they end up in the Cross?

776
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: What's like you were sent there? But what was it

777
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:36,200
Speaker 1: about the Cross that attracted I think it's the system.

778
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: I think most kids talked amongst each other and knew

779
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,560
Speaker 2: that Manly town Hall and King's Cross where the go

780
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 2: to spots.

781
00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,600
Speaker 1: Okay, because you'll find other kids in the same situation.

782
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: In the same situation, most of them running away. They're

783
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,640
Speaker 2: sick of being hit. Their parents are alcoholics or heroin

784
00:33:50,680 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: adictsal drug addicts. You know, you know, not always that

785
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 2: some kids are just bloody.

786
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:57,640
Speaker 1: Spoiler because I suppose and there would be on clothes

787
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: in different suburbs. But if you're out in a you

788
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,680
Speaker 1: be on your own and you found your tribe collective.

789
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's what it is. It's the safety in

790
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:08,400
Speaker 2: numbers thing, you know. We're in a group together, and

791
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 2: so I always felt safe. And there was one guy

792
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 2: that was bigger than me. He was Fijian and he

793
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 2: was my best friend. And I just was enamored with

794
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,719
Speaker 2: this man because he I mean he was fourteen two,

795
00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 2: but he was big and strong, you know, and he

796
00:34:18,680 --> 00:34:20,799
Speaker 2: was like you ever see that cardoing with the big

797
00:34:20,880 --> 00:34:23,879
Speaker 2: dog and the little dog and he's chasing the out dog.

798
00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I can picture it. Describe to us when you say,

799
00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: you know, we used to bed down in a squad like,

800
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: I've got a sense of I've seen those places, but

801
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,080
Speaker 1: describe it to people that it's a world that's foreign

802
00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:38,359
Speaker 1: to them.

803
00:34:38,680 --> 00:34:40,960
Speaker 2: So this one specifically was in Manning Street. It was

804
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 2: an old convent and it was dangerous. It had no

805
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 2: floor on two levels and it used to walk up

806
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 2: and every room had either drunks or heroin addicts or

807
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 2: people living in it. But there was one room at

808
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,120
Speaker 2: the end that just that was the kids room, you know,

809
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:54,759
Speaker 2: And we had like crates or set up and we

810
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,800
Speaker 2: had a couple of mattresses we dragged from somewhere. I

811
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 2: don't know where they're there. Before I got there, we

812
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,120
Speaker 2: used to use to get dyeed sheets to make curtains.

813
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:04,760
Speaker 2: It was kind of like, yeah, it was spray paints

814
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,399
Speaker 2: all over the wall, but it was our little spot. Yeah,

815
00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 2: but it was quite volatile and dangerous, you know, because

816
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 2: there was different people would use drugs, get alcohol, and

817
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: they come and they see kids, and there was always

818
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: young pretty girls with us as well, so you know,

819
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,800
Speaker 2: they sort of look at that as something a challenge

820
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 2: to them, you know, and we weren't capable of depending

821
00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: ourselves really against that.

822
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: You had one incident, you had some skinheads tell us

823
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:29,000
Speaker 1: about that.

824
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're all sitting there one time and a group

825
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,120
Speaker 2: of skinhead to come up to use in the place.

826
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 2: And they all walked into the room and they were

827
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,959
Speaker 2: big boys, man like, they were big kind of guys

828
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: and we're like little skinny, you know, nothings. And they've

829
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,319
Speaker 2: all walked in and they started talking to the girls.

830
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 2: Fresh mate sniffing and doing all these things, you know,

831
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 2: old enough to blue, you know, saying these fucking cruise

832
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 2: ships to us. And like, my mate, he gets up

833
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 2: and he's like stands up and I'm like there's about

834
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 2: eight of them, there's like one of him. And I'm like,

835
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 2: I stand behind in tentatively, like I'm there with you, bro,

836
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,120
Speaker 2: but I'm no good to you at all, but I'm

837
00:35:58,680 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 2: in support.

838
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,919
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, it's always good to know someone's behind you. Yeah.

839
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 2: But then there was a torch, a torch light, and

840
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: I said to him, well, that's the coppers. Like one

841
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 2: thing I've always been got as being smart, I can

842
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: use my brains pretty well. And I said, that's the coppers.

843
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:13,680
Speaker 2: I said, because we're kids that come here, and chet

844
00:36:13,680 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 2: con us every hour said they'll be up in a minute,

845
00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:17,279
Speaker 2: and they sort of looked at each other and bang,

846
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 2: there gone, you know. And then I wanted to go.

847
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:21,799
Speaker 2: I wanted to get out of there, and let's get

848
00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: out of.

849
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 1: Here of sexual abuse of the kids in there. And yeah,

850
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 1: the tourists wall that we talk of in King's Cross

851
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:33,960
Speaker 1: and different things tell us the dynamics of that environment. Yeah.

852
00:36:34,040 --> 00:36:36,279
Speaker 2: So in the daytime, there was the park half he

853
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 2: Troy Park, which was outside the police station, right outside

854
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:41,919
Speaker 2: the police station, and all day long you'd see little

855
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 2: boys sitting in there, and all these different men and

856
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,400
Speaker 2: all who become known to me over my period in

857
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:49,920
Speaker 2: the cross, you know, and they come in and like

858
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:52,799
Speaker 2: they're very good at make filling voids. What they did

859
00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:54,719
Speaker 2: is they find the kid and they find what it

860
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,160
Speaker 2: is that's missing them. They need their tires pump? Do

861
00:36:57,239 --> 00:36:57,719
Speaker 2: they need you know?

862
00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:58,120
Speaker 1: Laugh?

863
00:36:58,200 --> 00:37:01,000
Speaker 2: Do they need Buney security home? Whatever it is? And

864
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 2: and they take these kids off. And the people I

865
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:05,280
Speaker 2: used to see come to there and the war specifically

866
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 2: the war were some people that would blow your mind.

867
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 2: You know, some of the most powerful people in our country.

868
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 2: I'm talking about teachers, principles, lawyers, politicians, movie stars, you know.

869
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 2: And I won't name it all on camera obviously, but

870
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 2: I'm happy to share with you some of them. And

871
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 2: it's it's like bizarre. And some of those people, I mean,

872
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,239
Speaker 2: I gave evidence of the both commissions and I named

873
00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,799
Speaker 2: these people, but you know, they sealed our files, which

874
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 2: I don't understand.

875
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: And so when they these people approach, whether the high

876
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: profile or and positions of responsibility or anyone, when they're

877
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:40,320
Speaker 1: approaching the kids, they're offering them money for sex or whatever.

878
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,880
Speaker 1: That could be as simple as a feed. I'll take

879
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: you for take you for a feed.

880
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, that's what they do. They come in,

881
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 2: they go, how are you doing? You know, like the

882
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 2: first one I met, I was playing a pinball machine

883
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 2: and he come up beside it and he goes, oh,

884
00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:52,960
Speaker 2: you win a mate. I said, you know, like a

885
00:37:52,960 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 2: little kid pomatize. Oh yeah, I'm doing really good. Let

886
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 2: me have a go with you. Yah yeah, yea yeah

887
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,080
Speaker 2: we're playing. And then oh would you like something to eat?

888
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm going to have something to eat.

889
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 2: And then you know, we in the back. He said,

890
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 2: how nothing happens the first time, if you've read that

891
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: in my book, But what actually happens is as a

892
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:11,000
Speaker 2: prelude to the biker thing that happened. There was this

893
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,160
Speaker 2: big fight on the street to the cross and there

894
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:16,160
Speaker 2: was all these bikers and dormant just punching on. There

895
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 2: was women. He was the most violent thing I ever seen,

896
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 2: and being a kid like I ran to the front

897
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 2: of the crowd. But the crowd around me got so

898
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,439
Speaker 2: big that I kept getting pushed in, pushed into this crowd,

899
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 2: and I was about two am in the morning. A

900
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: big hand comes through and literally pulls me out of

901
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 2: the crowd and he says, get the fuck out of

902
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,600
Speaker 2: the cross, bro, this is no place for kids. And

903
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,279
Speaker 2: a woman screaming at me as well, and I'm like,

904
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:36,600
Speaker 2: and then the only place I knew to go Gary

905
00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:38,759
Speaker 2: was the squad. But the squad was right down the

906
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 2: back of the cross in this back lane had to

907
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:42,440
Speaker 2: go a f it was like dark, it was sketchy.

908
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 2: I was never going there on my own, And so

909
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:47,279
Speaker 2: the only place I knew to go was the pedophiles home, right,

910
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: you know. And that so that's the first sort of

911
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 2: introduction for me to a predator. Whereas he says to me, oh,

912
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,360
Speaker 2: I know, and he was he was working for a

913
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: guy and I won't say his lane, but a bit

914
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 2: some big pushes in the cross, you know. And so

915
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,120
Speaker 2: he's saying, I can look after you, I can give

916
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: you pot, I can give your money, you know, and

917
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,400
Speaker 2: all this sort of stuff. And it doesn't come on

918
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:05,160
Speaker 2: to me straight away.

919
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: You know.

920
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,480
Speaker 2: It's like I can have all my friends there, like

921
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,479
Speaker 2: it's like, what more do I want? But it comes

922
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 2: to the cost, and that that's what the cost was.

923
00:39:12,800 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 2: And they let your friends hang in there, and yeah,

924
00:39:14,920 --> 00:39:16,719
Speaker 2: that's right, and give them pot and you know, and

925
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,480
Speaker 2: so I'm suddenly popular because I've got pot to give

926
00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 2: out and.

927
00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 1: Like it's you know, and when does the abuse start

928
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 1: or when does it?

929
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: Well, it starts there first, but I and I'm living

930
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:30,680
Speaker 2: with a girlfriend. The thing about it is all our

931
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 2: girls know what's happening. It's like just how it works,

932
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: what your survival. But where the real predatory stuff starts

933
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:40,880
Speaker 2: for me is I got sick of this guy and

934
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,440
Speaker 2: I end up moving out of there. And first one

935
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:45,359
Speaker 2: is I meet this guy at the park named Ken

936
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:49,359
Speaker 2: Foggerty and who I've had convicted and charged. He says

937
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: to me, I'll give you money, and he raped me.

938
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 2: It didn't turn out the way it should have, you know,

939
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,440
Speaker 2: like he actually abused me quite savagely. And then one

940
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,520
Speaker 2: day I'm sit in the park with my girl and

941
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 2: my friends, and these two little school girls walk in

942
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:06,879
Speaker 2: the park. One's probably about ten, maybe eleven or twelve,

943
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:09,120
Speaker 2: I don't know. They're very young, very very young. I'm

944
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: not good at identifying danger for myself, but instantly I thought, no, no, no,

945
00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:14,719
Speaker 2: I've got to get these girls out of here. So

946
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:16,879
Speaker 2: I run over and there's this guy comes walking over

947
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,960
Speaker 2: and anyway he comes over. He says, I'm a counselor

948
00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:21,680
Speaker 2: blah blah blah, And I said, hell you are mate,

949
00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:23,399
Speaker 2: You're not taking them kids anywhere, you know. And I'm

950
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 2: sort of standing up and I I've got twenty other

951
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 2: kids behind me. It makes me kind of more bravee,

952
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,880
Speaker 2: you know. So that gives me a little bit of

953
00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: Dutch courage. And they like, I'm spruce and offer. Then

954
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:32,880
Speaker 2: he says, I'm a counselor. And the little people are

955
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 2: peeling away as he's talking because he's very articulate and

956
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 2: he's he as a counselor. He was in a refuge

957
00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:42,480
Speaker 2: called the Homeless Childrens Association. Now this refuge was founded

958
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,880
Speaker 2: by a children's magistrate, Simon Davies, the guy the other

959
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 2: guy had convicted. So what happens is we agree that

960
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: we'll go to the refuge with him. Well, now I'm

961
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 2: letting these kids go anywhere with him on my own,

962
00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: So it would be and a possive about twenty kids

963
00:40:55,440 --> 00:40:56,920
Speaker 2: follow him all the way through the cross all the

964
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: way down to Liverpool Street.

965
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:02,320
Speaker 1: Of this of these kids talking, kids, whether we we're talking.

966
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,920
Speaker 2: From twelve year old up to eighteen year olds, you know,

967
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 2: it's quite a kid yeah, old kids.

968
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 1: Yeah.

969
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 2: And we get to this refuge, and that's Simon Davies.

970
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:12,239
Speaker 2: And I walk in and there's this guy with the

971
00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 2: whack eye looking all over the place, and he sits

972
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: there and he goes, oh, you're a Glen, are you?

973
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 2: He said, Oh, you're incredible. Look at the way all

974
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,080
Speaker 2: the other kids follow you. And then he's just so

975
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: good at pumping my tethering.

976
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, compliments for the life that you've had, you'd be

977
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: taking all the compliments he can get.

978
00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. And the other thing that he said

979
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 2: to me was he said, let me tell you your story.

980
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 2: He said, I'd say that your mum and dad are

981
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 2: probably alcoholics or addicts. You've probably spent most of your

982
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:40,279
Speaker 2: time in institution. Came more. Amazing, Yeah, amazing, man, How

983
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 2: does he know all this about me?

984
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:41,800
Speaker 1: You know?

985
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 2: And it's because he's met a hundred other Glens, you know.

986
00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 2: And but what ends up happening is about a week

987
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,719
Speaker 2: after we move into this refuge with all so the

988
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,960
Speaker 2: part that's always carry good with me is that I

989
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:53,799
Speaker 2: go back to the kids and I say, oh, there's

990
00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: a refuge we can stay in. We'll have to drink,

991
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: we can take drugs, we can have our girlfriend sleep

992
00:41:58,080 --> 00:41:59,960
Speaker 2: in the same bed. The only rule is no vile,

993
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 2: you know, and it's riding King's Grass.

994
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: And thinking you've found paradise.

995
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:07,120
Speaker 2: Paradise. Yeah, so we move in there. What I don't

996
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,360
Speaker 2: know is that the five men working there are all pedophiles.

997
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,520
Speaker 2: It's an actual ring of predators who have targeted children,

998
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 2: you know. And I can say this because I've had

999
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,919
Speaker 2: four of them convicted, you know. So about a week

1000
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,560
Speaker 2: into my stay there, I'm sitting in the office and

1001
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 2: he says, I've got a bottle of scotch you want

1002
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 2: to drink, And I'm like, you don't let me drink alcohol.

1003
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'll do that. I've never been drunk, right,

1004
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:31,400
Speaker 2: but I'll do that. So I'm drinking scotch. And then

1005
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: this other guy, who I've a convicted, Paul Jones, he

1006
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 2: walks in and he goes, I've got these pillows. They're

1007
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 2: called mandies. If you want one, So what do they do?

1008
00:42:38,760 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: Oh?

1009
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, you love it makes your fun bang. I take

1010
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 2: that too. I'm sitting there playing guitar. The next thing

1011
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 2: I know is I wake up in the morning. I'm

1012
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:49,640
Speaker 2: semi naked, and I'm getting snippets of the night and

1013
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 2: I'm like fucking's happened again, you know, Like that's what

1014
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,239
Speaker 2: I'm going through. And I literally walk out of the

1015
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 2: refuge and I walk up to Grant Morris, who I've

1016
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 2: also convicted, and I said, I've been raped and he

1017
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,080
Speaker 2: goes by who Glen Bye? Who? And I tell him

1018
00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:04,960
Speaker 2: and then his face goes lily white and he goes,

1019
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 2: I'll meet you tonight at the Cloan I think it

1020
00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:09,160
Speaker 2: was called the Clown your Cafe. Come and talk to

1021
00:43:09,239 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 2: me and we'll sort this out. And I'm like, okay.

1022
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: And then I go up to the cross and I

1023
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 2: sit down with my girlfriend and I heer'sally talking about her.

1024
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,040
Speaker 2: She sits on my lap. She puts her nase on

1025
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 2: me all the time, and she used to say, you

1026
00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 2: know the song Vincent Starry Starry Night. She's always sending

1027
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 2: that something to me and she's yeah, and she used

1028
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 2: to put her nase on and sing this song and

1029
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,800
Speaker 2: she used to go, the world doesn't know you like

1030
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:30,080
Speaker 2: I know you, Glenn. You're such a beautiful person, you know.

1031
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 2: And she tall that to me all the time, and

1032
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:33,920
Speaker 2: she said, but I know something's not right, what's going on?

1033
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:35,960
Speaker 2: And I was too scared to tell her you know,

1034
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 2: like I didn't want to say what's happened, so I

1035
00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:41,439
Speaker 2: go to this. I also run into Annie Crow, who's

1036
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 2: the woman who also works at the refuge, and I

1037
00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 2: tell her. When I arrived at the cafe, Grant Morris,

1038
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 2: Simon Davies were all at the cafe and I sit

1039
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 2: down with him, and then Grant jumped and he goes

1040
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 2: every child he has an adult that looks after him.

1041
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:58,360
Speaker 2: That's how King's Cross works. You know, you're over reacting,

1042
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:00,440
Speaker 2: you know, like do you want to leave refuge and

1043
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: all your mates go? You know, like it's like suddenly

1044
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:04,520
Speaker 2: it's like, oh, what have I done wrong? Have I

1045
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:05,279
Speaker 2: done something wrong?

1046
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: You know?

1047
00:44:05,960 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 2: What they taught me was that my body was a commodity,

1048
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:11,040
Speaker 2: and I started to learn that I be can't. I

1049
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,920
Speaker 2: started taking drugs and to block out what's going on,

1050
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:17,200
Speaker 2: and then the money. I'm spreading it out with my

1051
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 2: friends because I'm a people pleaser and I want to

1052
00:44:19,719 --> 00:44:22,720
Speaker 2: please everyone, so you know, I've got all these things

1053
00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 2: going on.

1054
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 1: It's a horrible situation, but you can see how it's

1055
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: very scripted in the way that they drag and drag

1056
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,799
Speaker 1: you in. They find find the kids, and then manipulate

1057
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 1: the situation.

1058
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. And I mean like they give you

1059
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 2: all this stuff and then they were going to take

1060
00:44:38,080 --> 00:44:41,120
Speaker 2: it all away. And plus the police are their friends.

1061
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,800
Speaker 2: Everyone knew what was happening in this place, you know.

1062
00:44:43,920 --> 00:44:49,359
Speaker 2: And in nine and eighty three January, another guy who

1063
00:44:49,440 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: runs a refuge comes to the refuge and he says

1064
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 2: two he calls in the judge and a general, right,

1065
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,600
Speaker 2: and who run the refuge, And he says, Simon Davis's

1066
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,360
Speaker 2: abusing your children. They call Simon Davies in and they

1067
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,719
Speaker 2: say you can no longer be the CEO, or you

1068
00:45:03,760 --> 00:45:06,319
Speaker 2: can no longer reside at four two nine. But they

1069
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,240
Speaker 2: never report the crime. They never come to the refuge,

1070
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:11,520
Speaker 2: nor do they check if he lives at the refuge.

1071
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,440
Speaker 2: And he resides there for another eight months with the

1072
00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: other four men who are abusing us kids.

1073
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:17,640
Speaker 1: It's got that stink of the church, isn't it like

1074
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: protecting protecting their reputation because a lot of them had

1075
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: a good reputation. Yeah, well so called good reputation, and

1076
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: that's what they were doing. Hey, guys, it's Gary Jubilan here.

1077
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 1: Want they get more out of I catch killers, then

1078
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:35,400
Speaker 1: you should head over to our new video feed on

1079
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,360
Speaker 1: Spotify where you can watch every episode of VI Catch Killers.

1080
00:45:40,200 --> 00:45:43,360
Speaker 1: Just search for I Catch Killers video in your Spotify

1081
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: app and start watching today. With that environment, your story

1082
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:51,800
Speaker 1: is that your story very typical for other kids, the

1083
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:54,839
Speaker 1: way they get caught up in it. Were the girls

1084
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 1: abused as well?

1085
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,880
Speaker 2: Or now where the girls were and all the boys were,

1086
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,960
Speaker 2: or the girls were in a different way. They were

1087
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:02,880
Speaker 2: going out at some point, and they have in somewhere

1088
00:46:02,880 --> 00:46:08,000
Speaker 2: in strip clubs, some when in become into prostitution. But yeah,

1089
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 2: I just so what happened in August? I come home

1090
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 2: with a couple of kids and two of the other

1091
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 2: people that work in the refuge a standing there and

1092
00:46:15,840 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 2: they say the refuge is being closed. And they said

1093
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 2: we can no longer stay here. And I said, yous

1094
00:46:20,080 --> 00:46:22,040
Speaker 2: can go. We're not fucking out anywhere. And I just

1095
00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 2: stopped my footing, you know, so us kids stay in

1096
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 2: this refuge. I contacted a journalist who came and put

1097
00:46:28,360 --> 00:46:29,560
Speaker 2: us on the front page of the paper. We're on

1098
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:32,320
Speaker 2: the paper, you know, like it's I remember it's August,

1099
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 2: the first issue in the Telegraph in August of nine

1100
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,080
Speaker 2: and eighty three. So what happened is about two weeks

1101
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:40,959
Speaker 2: after our stay there, the police come in the morning,

1102
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: about six o'clock and arrest is like they come for everywhere,

1103
00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 2: you know, and they take us all off to Bajura.

1104
00:46:46,040 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 1: We'll just break this down so I make sure with

1105
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,759
Speaker 1: the story. Yeah, yeah, the refugees supposedly shut down that

1106
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: you guys, we're not leaving. Yeah, cops have turned up.

1107
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:58,400
Speaker 1: The next day. You get charge with whatever charge was

1108
00:46:58,719 --> 00:46:59,279
Speaker 1: placed on you.

1109
00:46:59,800 --> 00:47:02,680
Speaker 2: The rest all of us, every one of thems got

1110
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:05,359
Speaker 2: some kind of warrant for wanted for something in the past.

1111
00:47:05,440 --> 00:47:07,959
Speaker 2: I'm literally the only one that didn't because I didn't

1112
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:11,080
Speaker 2: do crimes. So I get let out. But what happens

1113
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 2: is I start speaking about our abuse. This is where

1114
00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 2: I start talking to police. I start saying, this is

1115
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,520
Speaker 2: what's going on. But what's happening is and this is

1116
00:47:18,600 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: a big part of the story that people don't understanding.

1117
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,919
Speaker 2: King Cross. People were picking up kids at the wall,

1118
00:47:23,239 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 2: at the park and places like this. They were taking

1119
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 2: them to established in the Cross. They're being filmed. So

1120
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 2: what happened is the people that are filming it are

1121
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 2: now compromising these people who are coming in and touching

1122
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,239
Speaker 2: these children right, So that's kind of how it works.

1123
00:47:36,239 --> 00:47:39,279
Speaker 2: So what ends up happening is I start speaking, I

1124
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 2: get out, and then the next time I'm sitting in

1125
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,239
Speaker 2: the park with one another girl and a friend, and

1126
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:44,879
Speaker 2: these two police walk over to me and they said

1127
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,040
Speaker 2: that to him, and they grabbed me and they charged

1128
00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 2: me with a Sultan robbery. So I get put into

1129
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 2: minda another institution for a crime I didn't do. And

1130
00:47:52,800 --> 00:47:56,720
Speaker 2: then in December they take me to court into Bajura.

1131
00:47:57,160 --> 00:48:00,600
Speaker 2: They dismissed the charge, but they play to be into

1132
00:48:00,680 --> 00:48:03,920
Speaker 2: the custody of my primary abuser, Simon Davies in Carton

1133
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,000
Speaker 2: Crescent in Summer Hill.

1134
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: Run just break that down again, so you would charge

1135
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:14,279
Speaker 1: your bar refuse you're putting the custody. The charges would

1136
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: drop when the hearing actually took place. But you were

1137
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: then sent from the court. And how old are we

1138
00:48:20,719 --> 00:48:21,240
Speaker 1: at this stage?

1139
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:22,560
Speaker 2: So now about sixteen?

1140
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:26,200
Speaker 1: Okay? From the court? Ye to live with Simon Davies,

1141
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: the person that you've been saying has been abusing that's right, yeah,

1142
00:48:29,719 --> 00:48:30,600
Speaker 1: to live with him.

1143
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:33,720
Speaker 2: And the same court where that person was made aware

1144
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 2: in the beginning of eighty three of him abusing me,

1145
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 2: where he was systematically removed supposedly as a CEO and

1146
00:48:40,920 --> 00:48:41,759
Speaker 2: able to live at the.

1147
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: Refuge, Right, how did that work out? Did you go there?

1148
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:45,399
Speaker 1: Or just I did?

1149
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,480
Speaker 2: And so I actually don't think I had to, but

1150
00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:50,520
Speaker 2: I just because I was such so kid at like

1151
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:51,880
Speaker 2: the systems.

1152
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:53,160
Speaker 1: Life.

1153
00:48:53,239 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. So I'm doing what I believe I'm

1154
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,720
Speaker 2: supposed to do. But after about two weeks of sleeping

1155
00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,800
Speaker 2: in his bed with him in his room in his

1156
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 2: parents home, his sister comes up to me one day

1157
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 2: and he says, Glenn, you should not be sleeping in

1158
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,839
Speaker 2: that bedroom with that with Simon. What is going on here?

1159
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 2: She confront her parents. So the parents end up kicking

1160
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 2: us out or kicking me out, and he puts me

1161
00:49:13,040 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 2: into a flat and he leaves me in this place

1162
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: with this guy that runs it, and he says, I'll

1163
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,399
Speaker 2: leave you here for the night, and he said I'll

1164
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 2: be back tomorrow. He didn't come back for two weeks.

1165
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,600
Speaker 2: He just left me there, and then I remember sitting

1166
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 2: there waiting for that knock knock, knock knock, and he said,

1167
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:28,480
Speaker 2: come on, mate, your dad's not coming. I told him

1168
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:30,479
Speaker 2: he was my dad. Your dad's not coming back, mate,

1169
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 2: And he opened up and kicks me out. And that's

1170
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 2: where I, you know, I start to realize what's happening.

1171
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:38,279
Speaker 2: But the problem is, and this is the part of

1172
00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: my shore I don't like sharing. I'm now a heroin

1173
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 2: addict and the only way I know how to survive

1174
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,120
Speaker 2: his prostitution, right, And that's what's happened.

1175
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: So and well, what works in the favor of the

1176
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: predators that's trying to get you addicted, and so you'll

1177
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:57,480
Speaker 1: do anything for the addictions you've been dragged into. That

1178
00:49:58,040 --> 00:49:59,879
Speaker 1: and that that was a cycle in the Cross st

1179
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:03,280
Speaker 1: that's your story, but that's a sort of generic tale

1180
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:06,960
Speaker 1: on how kids end up in the cross getting abused

1181
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,280
Speaker 1: and getting addicted addicted to drugs.

1182
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 2: I saw so many kids, Gary, and I can name

1183
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:14,560
Speaker 2: so many of them that would arrive these beautiful, big,

1184
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:16,799
Speaker 2: smiling kids. The next thing you see them in a club,

1185
00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 2: stripping or whatever. You know, a year later, they've overdose, suicided,

1186
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,600
Speaker 2: being murdered, or they're just a cringe of who they

1187
00:50:24,640 --> 00:50:26,840
Speaker 2: were walking up and down on the street of William

1188
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:28,759
Speaker 2: Street's now trying to work for themselves because they're no

1189
00:50:28,840 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 2: longer a commodity to the club, you know, because they

1190
00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:33,160
Speaker 2: don't look the good anymore.

1191
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:37,040
Speaker 1: What about the policing the and I want to talk

1192
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,920
Speaker 1: in part two about you giving evidence at the Royal Commission,

1193
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: So just talking in general sense that, yeah, the policing

1194
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 1: in King's Cross maybe, well, no, I'm not knowing if

1195
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 1: I know there's good cops and I know there's bad cops,

1196
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:53,000
Speaker 1: and they were certainly identified in the Royal Commission where

1197
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:56,399
Speaker 1: flush some people out. But even that in the world

1198
00:50:56,480 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 1: of policing is yeah, it's one thing. Taking the dollar,

1199
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,759
Speaker 1: that's another thing. If you're turning a blind eye to

1200
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:07,400
Speaker 1: kids being sexually abused. What's your take on that environment.

1201
00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,719
Speaker 2: So what the police were doing was they would if

1202
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:11,439
Speaker 2: I went into the police and said this is what's

1203
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,680
Speaker 2: happened to me, they would then go to the pedophile

1204
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 2: and say this is our roles. You give us ten

1205
00:51:16,280 --> 00:51:20,160
Speaker 2: thousand or we have you charged, and then what would

1206
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 2: happen was they'd pay, so they'd have them in the

1207
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 2: pocket and often they come back to us, or not

1208
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,239
Speaker 2: come back to us at all and lock us up

1209
00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 2: or for a fictitious crime, which is what kind of happened.

1210
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:32,560
Speaker 2: You know, the police were may I cannot emphasize enough

1211
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 2: the evilness of the police at King's Cross and I

1212
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,440
Speaker 2: won't name them all, but there were so many. I mean,

1213
00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 2: one of them at Courting Glee you're probably aready, grabbed

1214
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,520
Speaker 2: me by my throat and pushed me up against the

1215
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 2: wall and he said, if I hear any more complaints

1216
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 2: from you, he said, you'll be floating in the river.

1217
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,360
Speaker 2: They used to call me miss dron Budsmen. And the

1218
00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,040
Speaker 2: funny thing about it was someone on my behalf Rada,

1219
00:51:51,080 --> 00:51:53,040
Speaker 2: led us the ONM Budsman about police beating me up

1220
00:51:53,120 --> 00:51:55,600
Speaker 2: really savagely. One time. I didn't even do it, but

1221
00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:57,439
Speaker 2: they thought that I had, so every time they see

1222
00:51:57,480 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 2: me that go yere, he is miss dron Budsmen. And

1223
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:01,279
Speaker 2: these were some of the most dangerous. Like back then,

1224
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: I was a little cocky. I didn't know what I

1225
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:07,960
Speaker 2: know now, and that they were dangerous. These police were

1226
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,160
Speaker 2: very dangerous. And there's nothing worse than you know, they

1227
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 2: have the power to do whatever they want. You know,

1228
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 2: you can't do anything about it.

1229
00:52:14,080 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 1: Well, it's power that can be abused, and this is

1230
00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: your your version of it. I don't think I'm knowing.

1231
00:52:22,440 --> 00:52:24,320
Speaker 1: It must have been some good cops in there that

1232
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,520
Speaker 1: push it back against that type of thing. If that

1233
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:30,880
Speaker 1: because I'm just trying to think all the cops I know,

1234
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: if I can't even comprehend one that would buy into that.

1235
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,640
Speaker 1: But I'm not doubting what you've said. And there was

1236
00:52:37,680 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 1: a history of it, and I suppose not just cops.

1237
00:52:41,120 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 1: People knew what was going on. There was businessmen. There

1238
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:46,080
Speaker 1: was all sorts of people and turned in a blind

1239
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: eye because the money was being made and let's not

1240
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:49,640
Speaker 1: kill the cash cow.

1241
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:51,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, And because that's what it was about,

1242
00:52:52,000 --> 00:52:54,320
Speaker 2: the money. The children of the Cross were the commodity.

1243
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,360
Speaker 2: They were the commodity, you know what I mean. And

1244
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 2: then they had the dealers that were also being protected

1245
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:02,279
Speaker 2: by police. I'm telling you it happened, and you are right,

1246
00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:04,200
Speaker 2: there is a handful of good coppers in there. I

1247
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 2: had the police if someone got murdered in across. I

1248
00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:09,480
Speaker 2: don't know the whole story, but they rested me on it.

1249
00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,359
Speaker 2: And this other copy that walked in and he goes,

1250
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 2: I know this kid, he hasn't got a violent bone

1251
00:53:14,120 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: in his body, you know, And they ended up letting

1252
00:53:16,239 --> 00:53:19,480
Speaker 2: me go. So there was those that did have empathy.

1253
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,760
Speaker 2: And there's others who have brought me food at different times.

1254
00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,400
Speaker 2: What about the gangsters, the bikes and all that. What

1255
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:28,399
Speaker 2: was their role in this, because they must have known

1256
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,960
Speaker 2: it was going on. Did they pull anyone in the

1257
00:53:31,040 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: line or no? The bikers were okay. The bikers are

1258
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:36,960
Speaker 2: actually quite good with kids. They really were. And I

1259
00:53:37,040 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 2: mean although WA used to sell for the bikers at

1260
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:40,399
Speaker 2: a very young age. You probably read that in my book.

1261
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:42,000
Speaker 2: I was selling I won't say what club, but I

1262
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,080
Speaker 2: was selling speed for the bikers. They were all very

1263
00:53:44,160 --> 00:53:46,399
Speaker 2: good to me and protected me that way. In fact,

1264
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:48,279
Speaker 2: one of the stories you're probably read in my book

1265
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,960
Speaker 2: was I was walking down the street, yeah, and this

1266
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:52,960
Speaker 2: guy biker walks up to me and he goes grab

1267
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:54,719
Speaker 2: me by my ear, like literally had my ear and

1268
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: dragged me down to the porkies. And the guy was

1269
00:53:57,200 --> 00:53:59,440
Speaker 2: being wheeled out on a gurney and he pulls the

1270
00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 2: blanket up. Ambler's drivers are horrified and they just step

1271
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:03,880
Speaker 2: back because he's a big boy, right, And he goes,

1272
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:06,160
Speaker 2: see that you want to hit? He said, I'll give

1273
00:54:06,160 --> 00:54:08,359
Speaker 2: you a hit, guaranteed to put John on it every time,

1274
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:12,080
Speaker 2: you know, Like he was trying to help, but it

1275
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 2: didn't work. Once I was in I was in.

1276
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 1: And what about the working girls as well, because you

1277
00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,560
Speaker 1: got you got some people that were sort of doing

1278
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 1: their best to keep an eye out for the kids.

1279
00:54:22,719 --> 00:54:24,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, the ones that looked after me, the mayor, for

1280
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:28,360
Speaker 2: the people you at least expect. They were likers, street strippers, prostitutes,

1281
00:54:28,360 --> 00:54:31,160
Speaker 2: and heroin addicts. They like, you know, they that was

1282
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:33,000
Speaker 2: log eat dog in some parts of the world. But

1283
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 2: when it comes to kids, they did protect us. They looked.

1284
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 2: I mean, they see me. For Sally Anne, she used

1285
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,319
Speaker 2: to give me around all the time regards She's say,

1286
00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:41,080
Speaker 2: don't you buy back and arroon? So I don't want

1287
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,000
Speaker 2: to got heron's gun buy something. The food, I'll take it,

1288
00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:44,640
Speaker 2: she said. She take me to this place called the

1289
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:46,400
Speaker 2: Asteria or the Cosmopolitan.

1290
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:49,240
Speaker 1: Sally Ane huckscept talking there, I thought.

1291
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:50,960
Speaker 2: She was like, I want to be honest, when she

1292
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 2: started telling me all about what's going on the cross

1293
00:54:52,560 --> 00:54:54,080
Speaker 2: as a very young age, I'm just saying to eat

1294
00:54:54,120 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: my food, yes, Sally, you know, like yeah, okay, Sally,

1295
00:54:56,760 --> 00:54:59,640
Speaker 2: you know it's like it's just it's just like I

1296
00:54:59,680 --> 00:55:02,080
Speaker 2: think she you know, we got these tin fall hats

1297
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:04,759
Speaker 2: these days. That's what Sally kind of I thought when

1298
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:07,160
Speaker 2: I first met her, because the way she talked about

1299
00:55:07,160 --> 00:55:08,920
Speaker 2: and you'd be careful of this person, you be careful

1300
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 2: of this. But she was really coming from a loving place,

1301
00:55:11,520 --> 00:55:13,759
Speaker 2: you know, and she's not alone. There was many of them,

1302
00:55:13,840 --> 00:55:17,719
Speaker 2: ros Sam, There's so many street workers who would see

1303
00:55:17,760 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 2: a little boy like me and it was almost like

1304
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 2: they'd have dop me, you know. It was like have

1305
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 2: you eaten today, little fellow?

1306
00:55:22,800 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 1: You know?

1307
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:25,120
Speaker 2: It comes sleep on my lounge, you know, and they'd

1308
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 2: all look after me. But at the same time they

1309
00:55:27,480 --> 00:55:29,400
Speaker 2: were still supporting their own heroin habits.

1310
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,479
Speaker 1: It's so fucked up, isn't it. The people, the people

1311
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: that you would think would you'd be at risk from,

1312
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:35,719
Speaker 1: they're the ones that were protecting you, and that they

1313
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: were they should be protecting you. You were at risk from. Yeah,

1314
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:43,880
Speaker 1: that's right. The system. Yeah, just before we move on

1315
00:55:44,520 --> 00:55:46,600
Speaker 1: the Cross these days, have you got the sense of its?

1316
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:47,560
Speaker 1: Has it changed?

1317
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:49,640
Speaker 2: Absolutely? I mean I go on the Cross every week

1318
00:55:49,640 --> 00:55:51,200
Speaker 2: be as you know, because I work on the streets

1319
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 2: now and it's completely changed. It's different, completely different dynamic,

1320
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:58,680
Speaker 2: the ambience, the whole feel of the Cross is different.

1321
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,360
Speaker 2: There's still a flicker of it and there's still the

1322
00:56:01,440 --> 00:56:03,320
Speaker 2: shooting gallery in kirktain Raid, and there's a couple of

1323
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 2: strip clubs. But for the most I mean, you've got

1324
00:56:05,840 --> 00:56:07,680
Speaker 2: to be a billionairely there these days made it.

1325
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:14,839
Speaker 1: Demographics of I get that that sense, Well, we might

1326
00:56:15,239 --> 00:56:18,399
Speaker 1: we might take a break for part one. I'll further

1327
00:56:18,719 --> 00:56:23,279
Speaker 1: listener warning, you think Glenn's life couldn't get much worse

1328
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,160
Speaker 1: at this stage why he's described, but we're going to

1329
00:56:26,200 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 1: talk about it. And there were things that rock you,

1330
00:56:29,239 --> 00:56:32,320
Speaker 1: rock you to the core, but there's a positive, so

1331
00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: we're better dangle that carrot at the end. You're hearing

1332
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:39,320
Speaker 1: Glenn talk and if anyone should be better and broken

1333
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,080
Speaker 1: that Glenn. But that's not the sense I'm getting. So

1334
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:45,600
Speaker 1: we're going to take Glenn even deeper into the troubles

1335
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,399
Speaker 1: that he's experienced in his life, but we'll also cover

1336
00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: off on how he turned his life around. The good

1337
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:51,359
Speaker 1: work you're doing there.

1338
00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 2: Awesome cheers