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Speaker 1: This is the fitsy and with her with Kate Richie podcast.

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Speaker 2: We love having this lady in the studio.

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Speaker 3: First of all, she's one of the warmest embraces that

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Speaker 3: you know with can heart can Maggie Dent, can heart

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Speaker 3: love a hug. But she's also going to bran new

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Speaker 3: podcast out. The Good Enough Dad is available now. Listen

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Speaker 3: to it wherever you get your good podcast from. She

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Speaker 3: made Kate get very emotional.

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Speaker 2: The last time she was in the studio.

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Speaker 3: It's the magnificent Maggie Dead Welcome Maggie.

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Speaker 4: Do you feel like to me everyone's mum and when

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Speaker 4: you come in here and you give us a hug,

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Speaker 4: it just feels like I'm in a safe space.

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Speaker 1: Isn't that us gorgeous? You know that my own mom

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Speaker 1: was really cold and aloof like she, yeah, gave you nothing.

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Speaker 5: How many children in your family?

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Speaker 1: Six? Yeah, but she came from a family of twelve.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, Sydney with lots of poverty. All the

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Speaker 1: reasons why she would find it hard to do attachment.

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Speaker 5: How do you learn to mother than if you have

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Speaker 5: not been mothered yourself.

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Speaker 1: Well, there's there's a lot of things you had to do.

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Speaker 1: An awful lot of work on all the stories that

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Speaker 1: I had learned from that as my as a childhood,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't realize that it was traum okay, and

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Speaker 1: being able to realize that the stories that I had

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Speaker 1: learned from that weren't true, that I didn't deserve to

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Speaker 1: be loved, that I was a worthless piece of crap.

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Speaker 1: That you know, you just got to do what you're

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Speaker 1: told all the time or you'll get hit all those

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Speaker 1: sorts of things.

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Speaker 2: What about what about your father mate?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well he was the good guy, so, which is

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Speaker 1: probably why you know I do what I do now.

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Speaker 1: We know that that warmant connected relationship even with an

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Speaker 1: old krusty you know, in the fifties my dad, I

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Speaker 1: spent time with him. He was a farmer, so we'd

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Speaker 1: hang out in the youth, we hang around the sheep.

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Speaker 1: I was his little right hand girl.

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Speaker 2: Actually, just on the ute. Can you please tell us

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Speaker 2: the story.

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Speaker 3: You nearly lost your life in a youth, didn't you,

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Speaker 3: with a couple of blokes that you went to school with.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I did, got it.

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Speaker 4: What happened?

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Speaker 1: Well, I was a tomboy and I was obviously used

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Speaker 1: to driving on the farm from a young age and

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Speaker 1: I was at boarding school, but I went with a

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Speaker 1: couple of the boys to their farm and they had

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Speaker 1: a few beat up old cars and we were just

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Speaker 1: driving around the paddock. But they dared me. You don't

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Speaker 1: dare me, so we had a race, but unfortunately caught

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Speaker 1: a rock and it flipped and then it flipped up

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Speaker 1: against a tree and it came back down on my

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Speaker 1: right foot.

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Speaker 4: Oh you're kidding me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So yeah, that.

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Speaker 1: Was like one of those moments where you think I'm

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Speaker 1: a sensible girl. Welcome to the teenage years, guys, k

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Speaker 1: Can I.

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Speaker 3: Ask you just on that, Max, because that is such

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Speaker 3: a if I would be just if I knew my

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Speaker 3: son was about to jump into a car to do that,

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Speaker 3: you would be so upset that this was.

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Speaker 2: About to happen, do you now?

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Speaker 3: I want to ask you this question because I have

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Speaker 3: to look back at my and I was quite rogue, rebellious.

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Speaker 2: So when my boys are doing this stuff.

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Speaker 3: Now, there is an element of me going Ryan, just relax,

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Speaker 3: take a deep breath. You went through this as well,

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Speaker 3: because you know your first reaction is stop it, don't

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Speaker 3: even look at that, don't even do this. So how

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Speaker 3: do we approach that with our kids knowing what you

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Speaker 3: went through. Maggie.

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Speaker 1: Oh, look, it's so good you've brought that up, because

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Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons our kids aren't as resilient

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Speaker 1: and I can't cope with life is that we don't

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Speaker 1: let them follow those trees early on. But in the

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Speaker 1: adolescent window, we've got to realize that because of the

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Speaker 1: brain and how it's slowly developing, they're wired to have fun,

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Speaker 1: They're wired to take risks, they're wired to make impulsive,

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Speaker 1: poor choices, particularly boys and some girls. And it's the

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Speaker 1: natural consequence that comes from those things that helps them

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Speaker 1: grow that whoa I'm going to whereas it you tell them,

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Speaker 1: what happens when we tell them not to do something,

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Speaker 1: it has to be counter will. I've got to push

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Speaker 1: you back because you don't know what you're talking about, right.

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Speaker 1: So it's one of the trickiest things of being a

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Speaker 1: parent is to allow them those moments, knowing that hopefully

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Speaker 1: they won't, you know, come undone. And I do remember

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Speaker 1: the phone call to my dad because no smartphone's in

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Speaker 1: and I said, Dad, I'm at the hospital and he said, oh,

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Speaker 1: And I said, I'll hurt my foot. Oh okay, ok

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Speaker 1: I didn't even want to tell him what I did.

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Speaker 1: I think he thought I fell over it next okay, yeah, No,

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Speaker 1: it was until it got there that he realized. Oh

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Speaker 1: and the other thing is I reckon. This is the

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Speaker 1: biggie for you all, is that I want you to

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Speaker 1: be the parent your kid says I want to call mom,

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Speaker 1: I want to call dad, rather than the opposite, which says, God,

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Speaker 1: don't tell my mum or my dad. Right, And that's

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Speaker 1: why we turn up when they muck up. Going first thing,

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Speaker 1: are you hurt? Rather than what what are you doing?

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Speaker 1: We go, oh, you're hurt, Okay, We're going to look

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Speaker 1: after your body, and then later on chat about the

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Speaker 1: choice you made. But right now I'm more concerned are

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Speaker 1: you hurt?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 4: Can I ask a question? It really took my breath

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Speaker 4: away when I saw a headline that said that in

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Speaker 4: Florida they were looking to ban social media for kids

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Speaker 4: under the age of sixteen, and I thought to myself,

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Speaker 4: my God, if I could put money towards anything or

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Speaker 4: make any effort to contribute to that movement to stop

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Speaker 4: it till the age of sixteen that I'm one hundred

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Speaker 4: percent behind it. Can you give us some indication of

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Speaker 4: how bad it is.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well the stats just keep getting worse and worse.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know, the other day when you know,

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Speaker 1: the matter boss was out there saying, oh, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it contributes. They have evidence, of course, and we

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Speaker 1: also know the earlier you get a smartphone, the more

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Speaker 1: significant your chances of mental health challenges. From eighteen to

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Speaker 1: twenty four, we know it's a massive contributor to our girls,

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Speaker 1: you know, terrible sense of self and also their mental health.

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Speaker 1: We've got the evidence, so you know, it's it's really diffright.

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Speaker 4: Why are we not doing something as a nation about this?

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Speaker 1: No, because the tech companies have got a lot of money.

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Speaker 1: Right at the end of the day, they actually don't

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Speaker 1: care that they're damaging out now, of course not. It's

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Speaker 1: a bit like the cigarette and tobacco companies don't care

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Speaker 1: that vaping hurts our kids. They're about making money out

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Speaker 1: of our kids. And I'm with you, why aren't we outraged?

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Speaker 4: Some way to stop?

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Speaker 1: Why aren't we outraged?

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Speaker 4: I want to watch what happens in Florida as the

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Speaker 4: template for hopefully what can roll out in other parts

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Speaker 4: of the world.

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Speaker 1: You know, if there's not the phone in the classroom.

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Speaker 1: It's their device that they're using for their learning that

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Speaker 1: they're suddenly just watching YouTube videos but they're not concentrating.

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Speaker 1: And the long term impact, I think is you need

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Speaker 1: to be able to concentrate and focus to learn well

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Speaker 1: at any age. And they're noticing that is exactly what's

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Speaker 1: not happening with today's brain. So remember I said twenty

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Speaker 1: seven is about when the boys' brain. No, they're now

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Speaker 1: thinking boys with excessive gaming. It is closer to thirty

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Speaker 1: that the prefrontal finally finishes because of that, you know,

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Speaker 1: that stuff that happens, but it's delaying it well.

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Speaker 5: Because I do know some people who have older slightly

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Speaker 5: older children than my daughter who is nine, so they're

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Speaker 5: in that kind of tween early teen boys gaming. And

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Speaker 5: what they have said is, and these are parents are

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Speaker 5: quite active themselves. They say things to me like, I

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Speaker 5: cannot get my children out of the house. I cannot

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Speaker 5: get that device from them. If I attempt to do that,

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Speaker 5: it is all hell breaks loose in the house. And

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Speaker 5: there's part of me who has not yet reached that stage.

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Speaker 5: I'm thinking, just take the iPad off them, but apparently

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Speaker 5: it's not that easy. It feels as though there are

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Speaker 5: young teens or boys and girls who are in charge

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Speaker 5: of the household by their mood and addiction to devices.

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Speaker 5: How do you implement change if you're already too far

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Speaker 5: down that track.

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Speaker 1: You've painted it so accurately, Kate, and you know, there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of things that we've done along the journey,

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Speaker 1: and I really look to the expert. You've just got

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Speaker 1: to do this thing very gradually. And one of the

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Speaker 1: things that really does improve it is that there's something

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Speaker 1: you get that means you block the Wi Fi for

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Speaker 1: your own home. So you start with a big conversation

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Speaker 1: it says we're realizing it's getting problematic, but we also

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Speaker 1: we're also using our devices too much. So this family

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Speaker 1: is going to wind back the amount of time, and

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Speaker 1: the amount of time will be you know, let's be

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Speaker 1: Reasonab'll say they're doing three hours gaming a night. We're

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Speaker 1: just going to wind it back to two and a

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Speaker 1: half hours for a couple of weeks. But also, you

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Speaker 1: don't get to go gaming until your homework's done, So

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Speaker 1: we're just going to put some slight shifts in. Because

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Speaker 1: you try and look at all our best New Year's resolutions,

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Speaker 1: you can't hand change habits quick. But while you're doing it,

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Speaker 1: you're also stoking your relationships. So you eat more ice cream.

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Speaker 1: You're nicer to them, right, you justavnn courage sausages at right? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is. In other words, you're doing it from

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Speaker 1: a space of love rather than all the old stuff

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Speaker 1: that says just do it teenager.

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Speaker 5: It's a bit like if we had to give up

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Speaker 5: coffee overnight. We had to, you know, we wouldn't be nice.

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Speaker 5: Humans would know.

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Speaker 1: So it's a very gradual thing and it's a full

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Speaker 1: time job for today's parents. My heart goes out to you.

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Speaker 1: I was lucky. I can't imagine what would happen if

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Speaker 1: my four boys with gaming in one house.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, Maggie Dint she's abit to take your calls

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Speaker 3: if you've got a parenting issue that you want to

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Speaker 3: give us a call about thirteen twenty fourteen. She's got

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Speaker 3: a brand new podcast out, The Good Enough Dad, which

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Speaker 3: is available now. But Fasca has given us a call

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Speaker 3: from Croydon Park. What is your question, Fasha, I have it.

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Speaker 6: Look, I've got a thirteen year old boy and he's

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Speaker 6: quite an introvert. He's going into high school and I'm

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Speaker 6: just concerned about how can I get him to be

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Speaker 6: more assertive. He is quite an introvert, and you know,

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Speaker 6: going into high school, you know, I'm worried because he's

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Speaker 6: such a has such a kind nature, and he's not

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Speaker 6: that confident.

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Speaker 1: Oh look, I think you need to just be lucky

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Speaker 1: that he isn't the opposite because the chest banging, our

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Speaker 1: loud boys out there are the ones most likely to

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Speaker 1: get into most trouble. So just explain that to him

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Speaker 1: that your temperament is different to others, and you've got

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Speaker 1: to work out where are the other A couple of

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Speaker 1: other introverted kind of friends or mates that you can

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Speaker 1: make as you go into high school that he will

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Speaker 1: gradually build in his own capacity. And I think just

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Speaker 1: just keep on encouraging him to be him. But also

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Speaker 1: what are the sorts of things you can help him thirteen?

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Speaker 1: So sometimes the brain does a bit of pruning, and

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Speaker 1: his organization skills and forgetfulness can get really worse. So

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Speaker 1: I would be building his capacity to help him be organized.

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Speaker 1: You know, on a Sunday night, get organized, remember to

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Speaker 1: get your backpack off the bus. You know there's going

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Speaker 1: to be those sorts of things that will build his

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Speaker 1: sense of coping and being capable, which lifts his sense

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Speaker 1: of who he is and how he can deal with

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Speaker 1: this world.

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Speaker 6: Thank you so much, and hugging the lots.

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Speaker 1: And don't forget the random fart exactly.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you're a self confessed introvert yourself, aren't you. You

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Speaker 2: don't you don't like doing this, You don't go, you

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Speaker 2: don't like.

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Speaker 1: Going a day. I can do it for a day,

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Speaker 1: but I can't do anything at night.

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Speaker 2: No, I see sure.

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Speaker 1: And if I'm in a really large this is smaller.

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Speaker 1: I can do smaller really well. Especially when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about deep things. I can't do shallow talk. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: can't do it at all.

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Speaker 5: I think I like what you say. What you said

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Speaker 5: just then, Maggie to fash a wear. Not being particularly

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Speaker 5: confident and maybe keeping to yourself a little bit.

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Speaker 1: That's not a bad. It's not a bad.

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Speaker 5: I mean, unless you're you know, you're feeling crippled yourself

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Speaker 5: with fear around things. It's it's actually very endearing and

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Speaker 5: chances are you'll grow up into a lovely young man.

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Speaker 1: I tell you in a classroom full of fourteen year

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Speaker 1: old boys, I love the quieter interret because he wasn't

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Speaker 1: calling out Allen Behids.

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Speaker 4: You welcome to the show. You're here with Maggie Dan.

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Speaker 4: What's your question?

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Speaker 7: Hey Maggie, Hey guys am, I have a question. So

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Speaker 7: an eleven year old daughter with pubescent like lots of

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Speaker 7: foremon of changes, and I was wondering what strategies you

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Speaker 7: might suggest just to help deal with the ups and

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Speaker 7: downs of these changes, because I know they're going to

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Speaker 7: be around for a while and so yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah they are. And one of the trickiest windows is

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Speaker 1: actually ten to twelve is a significant window where our

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Speaker 1: girls can really struggle with all of those things that

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Speaker 1: are happening earlier than boys because they go into puberty earlier.

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Speaker 1: I would really recommend you get a really great kind

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Speaker 1: of book to have with you. And I'm not the

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Speaker 1: teen girls specialist, but I would love to recommend my

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Speaker 1: friend Michelle Mitchell has a book about twins, and she

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Speaker 1: also has a book about girls and boys puberty, which

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Speaker 1: when the kids can read it themselves and go, oh, okay,

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Speaker 1: so this is then you can have a conversation and

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Speaker 1: they can go and read it when they've got a

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Speaker 1: problem with friendships or what's going on at school with

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Speaker 1: the drama, why their big feelings are getting so unpredictable,

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Speaker 1: you know, and it gives you both something to go

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Speaker 1: to that's you know, diictable and really good. And I'm

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Speaker 1: never writing a book for ten girls, never. So I

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Speaker 1: just got that one out there.

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Speaker 2: Good.

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Speaker 5: It's a dangerous world out there. I just wanted to

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Speaker 5: ask you, Maggie. You were talking about the fact that you,

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Speaker 5: you know, you're out and about and you have a

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Speaker 5: lot of fathers and dads coming to your talks. Were

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Speaker 5: you saying about forty percent that dads actually want to

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Speaker 5: they want to step up, and they want they want

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Speaker 5: to be involved a bit more. Quite often, I know

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Speaker 5: when we've spoken to you before, we talk about dads

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Speaker 5: that live in the home and that are parenting along

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Speaker 5: with the mother or their partner under the same roof. Now,

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Speaker 5: I'm sure there's a lot of people listening now who

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Speaker 5: don't have that. I don't want to call it a

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Speaker 5: luxury because it's not always lovely living under the same roof.

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Speaker 1: Ah, but not everyone can pare it or the same home.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, So what is your advice to dads who feel

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Speaker 5: on the outer and maybe the relationship with their ex

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Speaker 5: partner is tricky, asking for a.

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Speaker 1: Friend, are we okay? Okay, so okay? And the number

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Speaker 1: one thing again, And in that space since the journey

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Speaker 1: I've walked as well as that the children need to

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Speaker 1: be our priority, not our own dramas. And it's not

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Speaker 1: always easy, particularly if a dad has come from a

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Speaker 1: difficult kind of more patriarchal You know, dad is boss

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Speaker 1: and my way is the highway, and I'm right and

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Speaker 1: you're wrong. That is difficult. I think one of the

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Speaker 1: things that I noticed in the podcast is how dads

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Speaker 1: have sort of said when I realized that I can

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Speaker 1: make a real difference in my kids' lives, both both

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Speaker 1: my sons and my daughters, it was a good kick

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Speaker 1: up my bum And I want to know how to say,

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Speaker 1: can only do what you know until you know more,

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Speaker 1: you do better. So how do you do that? Because

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Speaker 1: it won't come from you telling them that they can

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Speaker 1: do it better. It's I think, other dads talking to

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Speaker 1: other dads. That's definitely happening. We've had some messages from

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Speaker 1: the podcast saying one dad contacted us and said, I

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Speaker 1: was a bit bit iffy about you woman talking to men,

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Speaker 1: and then I binged all of them, and I came

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Speaker 1: back and said up, So I apologize for that, but

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Speaker 1: I want to say that I just from having listened

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Speaker 1: to them, I'm a better man and I'm a better father,

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Speaker 1: and you know, you brought up stuff that I didn't

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Speaker 1: have as he quoted the balls to actually look at.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes it is the good podcast and it is

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Speaker 1: listening to some of these you know, things that are

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Speaker 1: out there because not all of them read a book.

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Speaker 1: But the other one that came up a lot is

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Speaker 1: how many of the dads I spoke to are actually

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Speaker 1: going to work on those stories in their head and

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Speaker 1: to look at how do I heal myself? So they're

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Speaker 1: going into therapy, they're getting some support, and I think

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Speaker 1: that's the biggest shift we need to make that, okay,

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Speaker 1: because that's really behavior is really tricky.

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Speaker 5: I think for people who are open to yes therapy

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Speaker 5: and asking for help, it can be a difficult.

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Speaker 1: Part and you've got to have the money for it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I'm always learning, Maggie.

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Speaker 1: Oh constantly.

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Speaker 3: We are always thank you, thank you introvert for coming up.

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Speaker 3: We appreciate it.

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Speaker 2: You can.

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Speaker 3: The good Enough Dad is available now wherever you get

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Speaker 3: your good podcasts from. But Maggie, we love you today,

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Speaker 3: thank you for your time.

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Speaker 1: Thank you guys, so good to be here.

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Speaker 4: Fits in Whipper with Kate Ritchie is a Nova podcast

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Speaker 4: walk great shows like this. Download the Nova Player via

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Speaker 4: the App Store or Google Playing the Nova Player