WEBVTT - An optimistic take on antisemitism at the Royal Commission 

0:00:03.880 --> 0:00:06.840
<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:13.320
<v Speaker 1>It's Wednesday, February twenty five, twenty twenty six. Labor frontbencher

0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.360
<v Speaker 1>Julian Hill says the concerns of people who marched in

0:00:16.520 --> 0:00:19.919
<v Speaker 1>March for Australia anti immigration rallies should be listened to,

0:00:20.239 --> 0:00:25.120
<v Speaker 1>not dismissed. Hill is the Assistant Minister for Multiculturalism and

0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:29.280
<v Speaker 1>he referenced March for Australia's concerns about what he calls

0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:35.480
<v Speaker 1>unacceptable cultural practices on Australian soil, including homophobia, gender discrimination

0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:39.000
<v Speaker 1>and forced marriage. That story is live right now at

0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:46.000
<v Speaker 1>the Australian dot Com dot a U. The Federal Opposition

0:00:46.080 --> 0:00:48.280
<v Speaker 1>wants a full review of the work done by e

0:00:48.479 --> 0:00:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Safety Commissioner Julie Inman Grant. That's after a Federal court

0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.720
<v Speaker 1>finding she's been operating outside the scope of her powers.

0:00:56.120 --> 0:01:00.320
<v Speaker 1>Coalition spokesperson for Communications Sarah Henderson says the government should

0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:05.080
<v Speaker 1>probe how many potentially unlawful removal notices the commissioner has

0:01:05.080 --> 0:01:12.640
<v Speaker 1>issued What's antisemitism and what's free speech? The first day

0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.680
<v Speaker 1>of the Bondai Beach massacre. Royal Commission has gone there

0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.399
<v Speaker 1>right at the top. Commissioner Virginia Bell and Council assisting

0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:23.600
<v Speaker 1>Richard Lancaster say they believe Australians can all agree that

0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:27.240
<v Speaker 1>antisemitism is out of control and empathy needs to come back.

0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.759
<v Speaker 1>But is that wildly optimistic in today's climate? Today, Chief

0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:35.800
<v Speaker 1>International Correspondent Cameron Stewart joins us to assess where this

0:01:35.880 --> 0:01:42.440
<v Speaker 1>probe is going. Cameron Stewart is the Australian's Chief international

0:01:42.480 --> 0:01:45.600
<v Speaker 1>correspondent and just like me, he was watching the opening

0:01:45.600 --> 0:01:49.760
<v Speaker 1>addresses of the Bondai Royal Commission. Cam it's going to be,

0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:53.120
<v Speaker 1>of course about the Bondai Beach massacre in which fifteen

0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:55.920
<v Speaker 1>people died. Of course, somebody is up on charges in

0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.480
<v Speaker 1>relation to that. Navide R Crumb, one of the shooters,

0:01:58.520 --> 0:02:02.280
<v Speaker 1>the other shooter our crime, was shot dead at the scene.

0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:06.120
<v Speaker 1>So there's a criminal process underway. How's the Royal Commission

0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:08.359
<v Speaker 1>going to do its work with that in the background?

0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.440
<v Speaker 2>Claire, Although the references of the Royal Commission are to

0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:14.200
<v Speaker 2>look at the circumstances leading up to the shooting, including

0:02:14.240 --> 0:02:16.840
<v Speaker 2>the intelligence and law enforcement response as well, and what

0:02:16.919 --> 0:02:19.480
<v Speaker 2>they knew quite clearly because there were criminal proceedings of

0:02:19.560 --> 0:02:22.720
<v Speaker 2>Foot Commissioner Bell said, Look, there's some things we simply

0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.080
<v Speaker 2>mon't be able to talk about, certainly not in public.

0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:28.080
<v Speaker 2>They suggested there would be quite a few private, closed

0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:31.200
<v Speaker 2>door hearings in relation to that aspect of the Royal Commission.

0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.040
<v Speaker 2>I think everyone understands that, of course, the Royal Commision

0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.519
<v Speaker 2>does have to be extremely careful not to prejudice those

0:02:36.560 --> 0:02:40.680
<v Speaker 2>criminal charges against that surviving government. And so that's what

0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:42.880
<v Speaker 2>she was saying. Look, we will be looking at this,

0:02:43.040 --> 0:02:45.200
<v Speaker 2>but we will be looking at it with those constraints

0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:45.640
<v Speaker 2>in mind.

0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:51.359
<v Speaker 1>Can Virginia Bell said she'd be using the International Holocaust

0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:56.520
<v Speaker 1>Remembrance Association's definition of anti Semitism. Now, for people who

0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.919
<v Speaker 1>are unfamiliar with this, this is hot. Over the past

0:03:00.040 --> 0:03:03.399
<v Speaker 1>couple of years, there's been great controversy about what antisemitism

0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:08.200
<v Speaker 1>actually is and how it interacts or lives alongside freedom

0:03:08.200 --> 0:03:11.240
<v Speaker 1>of speech and the right of people who believe that

0:03:11.400 --> 0:03:13.760
<v Speaker 1>Israel has done the wrong things in its war in

0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:18.480
<v Speaker 1>Gaza to express that opinion. Let's hear Virginia Bell reading

0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:25.320
<v Speaker 1>aloud that International Holocaust Remembrance association IRA definition of antisemitism.

0:03:25.919 --> 0:03:33.560
<v Speaker 3>The definition itself is uncontroversial. It provides antisemitism is a

0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:37.960
<v Speaker 3>certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as a

0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:45.200
<v Speaker 3>hatred towards Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are

0:03:45.200 --> 0:03:50.400
<v Speaker 3>directed toward Jewish or non Jewish individuals and or their property,

0:03:51.160 --> 0:03:57.560
<v Speaker 3>toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities. The definition is

0:03:57.600 --> 0:04:03.080
<v Speaker 3>accompanied by eleven exacts examples of conduct which could amount

0:04:03.200 --> 0:04:07.760
<v Speaker 3>to anti Semitism. At least two of the examples are

0:04:07.840 --> 0:04:12.680
<v Speaker 3>controversial and have led some critics to argue that the

0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:19.280
<v Speaker 3>IRA working definition wrongly labels as anti Semitic the expression

0:04:19.360 --> 0:04:24.159
<v Speaker 3>of political views which do not reflect a hatred of Jews.

0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:28.640
<v Speaker 1>Now, Virginia Bell didn't say exactly which examples she was

0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:30.520
<v Speaker 1>talking about there, But I went and had a look

0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:33.640
<v Speaker 1>at that IRA definition cam and I think this might

0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.920
<v Speaker 1>be what she's talking about. The eleven examples listed by

0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:41.200
<v Speaker 1>IRA things that are antisemitism start with calling for aiding

0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.039
<v Speaker 1>or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the

0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:47.239
<v Speaker 1>name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion.

0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.640
<v Speaker 1>That one's pretty uncontroversial. Another one that I think is

0:04:50.720 --> 0:04:57.280
<v Speaker 1>uncontroversial is making mendacious, dehumanizing demonizing or stereotypical allegations about Jews,

0:04:57.360 --> 0:04:59.719
<v Speaker 1>and it goes on like that. But the ones of

0:04:59.760 --> 0:05:03.880
<v Speaker 1>a Niebel identified are controversial, I would suggest, are these.

0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:08.800
<v Speaker 1>Example ten is drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to

0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.960
<v Speaker 1>that of the Nazis. Example seven is denying the Jewish

0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:16.560
<v Speaker 1>people their right to self determination, for example, by claiming

0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:19.120
<v Speaker 1>that the existence of a state of Israel is a

0:05:19.200 --> 0:05:23.360
<v Speaker 1>racist endeavor, or promoting myths about a world Jewish conspiracy

0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:28.320
<v Speaker 1>or Jews controlling the media, and so on. Kem, You've

0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.520
<v Speaker 1>been at protests throughout the past couple of years about

0:05:31.560 --> 0:05:34.520
<v Speaker 1>the war in Gaza. We have seen people saying those

0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:37.800
<v Speaker 1>things in the streets of Sydney and Melbourne and Brisbane

0:05:38.120 --> 0:05:40.760
<v Speaker 1>since October seven, haven't we that Israel is a Nazi

0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.479
<v Speaker 1>state and that Jews control everything?

0:05:43.880 --> 0:05:47.200
<v Speaker 2>Look, that's right. Certainly, the activist movement, the activist ramp

0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:50.680
<v Speaker 2>of the pro Palestinian movement, doesn't really even try to

0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:54.000
<v Speaker 2>separate the politics of Israel with criticism of Jewish people

0:05:54.080 --> 0:05:56.440
<v Speaker 2>in Australia. I mean, that's the unfortunate fact. That's what

0:05:56.480 --> 0:05:59.080
<v Speaker 2>we've seen play out on the streets for over two

0:05:59.200 --> 0:06:01.640
<v Speaker 2>years now, and you know, that's obviously one of the

0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.560
<v Speaker 2>root causes here of the tensions that arise in anti

0:06:04.560 --> 0:06:07.480
<v Speaker 2>semitism we've seen over the past two and a half years.

0:06:07.520 --> 0:06:09.960
<v Speaker 2>And I think what Commissioner Bell was saying was, look,

0:06:10.360 --> 0:06:14.359
<v Speaker 2>she accepts there have been debates about that definition of

0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:16.880
<v Speaker 2>anti Semitism, but the fact is clear that the Albanisia

0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.880
<v Speaker 2>government has accepted that definition. And what she's saying is,

0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:22.400
<v Speaker 2>we're not going to get bogged down in this Royal

0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.640
<v Speaker 2>Commission having endless debates about this. We can't do that.

0:06:25.680 --> 0:06:27.839
<v Speaker 2>We need to move on and look at the actual issues.

0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.040
<v Speaker 2>She did make the point though, which of course is

0:06:30.040 --> 0:06:32.760
<v Speaker 2>a very correct point, that just mere criticism of the

0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:35.760
<v Speaker 2>policies of the Israeli government does not constitute anti Semitism.

0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:38.240
<v Speaker 2>So she was very clear on that point. But she

0:06:38.320 --> 0:06:40.360
<v Speaker 2>did say We're not going to get bogged down on

0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:43.120
<v Speaker 2>definitions of anti Semitism in this Royal Commission.

0:06:44.279 --> 0:06:47.039
<v Speaker 1>It's interesting, though, isn't it. Cam By going there on

0:06:47.240 --> 0:06:50.480
<v Speaker 1>day one in her opening address, she kind of has

0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.000
<v Speaker 1>set this out as a battleground that it is going

0:06:54.040 --> 0:06:56.840
<v Speaker 1>to be addressed. I mean, I'm imagining that these public

0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.800
<v Speaker 1>hearings are going to involve people wearing kefias and people

0:07:00.800 --> 0:07:03.960
<v Speaker 1>who are not hashing it out in public using this

0:07:04.000 --> 0:07:07.160
<v Speaker 1>as an opportunity to kind of grandstand about exactly these

0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:08.599
<v Speaker 1>issues from both sides.

0:07:09.360 --> 0:07:11.720
<v Speaker 2>What do you think, Yeah, look, that's right. What she's

0:07:11.720 --> 0:07:14.800
<v Speaker 2>interestingly done is she's made the point which might seem

0:07:14.840 --> 0:07:17.120
<v Speaker 2>a very obvious point to people if she's doing a

0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Royal commission on anti Semitism, but she said that I

0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.920
<v Speaker 2>am going to prioritize throughout this Royal Commission the focus

0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:26.600
<v Speaker 2>on anti Semitism. And what she then said was I

0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.240
<v Speaker 2>do accept, of course that other religions experience in tolerance

0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:34.120
<v Speaker 2>and prejudice against them as well. However, as a starting point,

0:07:34.400 --> 0:07:37.240
<v Speaker 2>we've had the massacre of people at Bondai. That's my

0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.840
<v Speaker 2>starting point. We are going to focus on anti Semitism.

0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.360
<v Speaker 2>And I think that's an important point for her to

0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.120
<v Speaker 2>make their clear because certainly you've got a lot of

0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:50.280
<v Speaker 2>claims by propalasity in groups that Islamophobia in Australia is

0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.520
<v Speaker 2>just as big a problem as anti Semitism, and so

0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:55.960
<v Speaker 2>I think she's clearing the ground to say, look, we

0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.440
<v Speaker 2>have fifteen people who have been killed at Bondai, you

0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.320
<v Speaker 2>have synagogues that have been burnt down, people are asking

0:08:01.320 --> 0:08:03.480
<v Speaker 2>out to school, et cetera. I mean, is quite clearly

0:08:03.680 --> 0:08:06.920
<v Speaker 2>a bigger problem than Islamophobia. She didn't say all those

0:08:06.960 --> 0:08:08.640
<v Speaker 2>in her words, but that's what she was meaning.

0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, let's justist into a little snippet of that.

0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:18.080
<v Speaker 3>I'm mindful that while antisemitism may be the oldest religious

0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:23.920
<v Speaker 3>and ethnic prejudice, other religions and ethnicities are also subject

0:08:24.000 --> 0:08:31.000
<v Speaker 3>to prejudice in Australia. I expect that social cohesion will

0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:36.320
<v Speaker 3>be advanced by measures that address discrimination against religious faiths,

0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:45.040
<v Speaker 3>ethnicities and cultures generally. Nonetheless, against the background of the

0:08:45.080 --> 0:08:49.559
<v Speaker 3>massacre of innocent people who appear to have been targeted

0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:54.840
<v Speaker 3>simply because they were Jewish. I trust everyone will appreciate

0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:59.280
<v Speaker 3>why the focus of this Commission will be on tackling

0:08:59.440 --> 0:09:05.120
<v Speaker 3>anti senmmotism as a starting point in strengthening our bonds

0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:06.320
<v Speaker 3>of social cohesion.

0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:10.760
<v Speaker 1>Cam. I mean, she seems pretty optimistic there to me.

0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:13.600
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I don't think that everyone who is going

0:09:13.640 --> 0:09:15.960
<v Speaker 1>to be giving evidence that this Royal Commission is going

0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:19.240
<v Speaker 1>to accept that antisemitism short or be or is the

0:09:19.280 --> 0:09:21.400
<v Speaker 1>starting point. What do you think?

0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:23.800
<v Speaker 2>Look, I think it absolutely has to be the starting point,

0:09:23.800 --> 0:09:26.720
<v Speaker 2>because I think quite clearly that has been the main

0:09:26.880 --> 0:09:29.480
<v Speaker 2>form of racial hatred we've seen in Australia for the

0:09:29.520 --> 0:09:31.320
<v Speaker 2>last two and a half years, and it's called led

0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.760
<v Speaker 2>indirectly or directly, we don't exactly know it to another

0:09:33.800 --> 0:09:36.640
<v Speaker 2>for evidence to the massacret Bondo. So look, I think

0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:39.360
<v Speaker 2>it's entirely correct that she takes that approach. But you're

0:09:39.440 --> 0:09:41.520
<v Speaker 2>right clear. There will be a lot of people who

0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:43.720
<v Speaker 2>will be debating this in the hearings, and I think

0:09:43.840 --> 0:09:45.719
<v Speaker 2>this is one of the interesting things about this Royal

0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.160
<v Speaker 2>Commission because it goes into social cohesion as well as

0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.600
<v Speaker 2>anti semitism. There's a lot of sort of subjective matters

0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:57.240
<v Speaker 2>here which will be the point of argument during the hearings,

0:09:57.280 --> 0:09:59.439
<v Speaker 2>and I think there's going to be quite a few passions.

0:09:59.440 --> 0:10:01.840
<v Speaker 2>There'll be people who are upset by what is unearthed

0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.200
<v Speaker 2>of the hearings and what is said, and some of

0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:08.120
<v Speaker 2>those people who actually opposed the Royal Commission originally said, look, listen,

0:10:08.160 --> 0:10:11.760
<v Speaker 2>it will undermine social cohesion to have all these views

0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:16.120
<v Speaker 2>expressed in public. But look, I think the contrary argument

0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:18.320
<v Speaker 2>to that, and I think a better argument is that

0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:22.520
<v Speaker 2>social cohesion was fraying and has been praying in Australia anyway.

0:10:22.559 --> 0:10:24.880
<v Speaker 2>You certainly can't get much more afraid than having fifteen

0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.040
<v Speaker 2>dead people at bondnine and terror attack, and so these

0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:29.840
<v Speaker 2>things need to be aired. But I think we're going

0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.600
<v Speaker 2>to be up for some very emotional and passionate hearings

0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:33.400
<v Speaker 2>in the months ahead.

0:10:50.760 --> 0:10:54.160
<v Speaker 1>Richard Lancaster SC who's the council assisting the Royal Commission,

0:10:54.679 --> 0:10:57.680
<v Speaker 1>went to this point about social cohesion. Let's just listen

0:10:57.720 --> 0:10:57.920
<v Speaker 1>to that.

0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:03.000
<v Speaker 4>Let us patent to social cohesion as the national consensus

0:11:03.040 --> 0:11:05.720
<v Speaker 4>in support of democracy, freedom and the rule of law.

0:11:07.200 --> 0:11:10.280
<v Speaker 4>The consensus to which the letters patent refer is not

0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:15.160
<v Speaker 4>a uniformity of opinion, nor does it require or involve

0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.680
<v Speaker 4>the suppression of fair criticism and debate. It is quite

0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.720
<v Speaker 4>the opposite. In my submission, it is a consensus that

0:11:21.800 --> 0:11:26.360
<v Speaker 4>a diverse, multicultural society can subsist and thrive only by

0:11:26.440 --> 0:11:32.680
<v Speaker 4>mutual acceptance of our respective democratic freedoms exercised according to law.

0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:38.040
<v Speaker 4>Social cohesion begins with empathy. A large part of the

0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.720
<v Speaker 4>work of this Commission will be to present evidence to

0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:44.160
<v Speaker 4>allow a broader understanding of the scourge of anti Semitism.

0:11:44.840 --> 0:11:48.760
<v Speaker 4>Its nature and prevalence throughout Australian society and its impact

0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:52.559
<v Speaker 4>on the lives of fellow Australians. Through that understanding, there

0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:54.320
<v Speaker 4>may be opportunities to improve.

0:11:55.960 --> 0:11:58.280
<v Speaker 1>I think many people in the Jewish community can are

0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:03.000
<v Speaker 1>hoping that what comes out of this Royal Commission is

0:12:03.040 --> 0:12:07.360
<v Speaker 1>a criticism essentially of governments for allowing, for example, March

0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:10.360
<v Speaker 1>is over the Harbor Bridge marches in every city every

0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:16.080
<v Speaker 1>weekend for two years, where critics of Israel loudly suggested

0:12:16.120 --> 0:12:19.319
<v Speaker 1>that Israel was a terrorist state, Israel was a Nazi state,

0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:25.319
<v Speaker 1>and so on. I just really wonder about Richard Lancaster's again,

0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:30.760
<v Speaker 1>I think quite optimistic idea there that just by existing

0:12:31.360 --> 0:12:33.800
<v Speaker 1>and hearing evidence, the Royal Commission is going to convince

0:12:33.800 --> 0:12:37.720
<v Speaker 1>everyone that antisemitism is real and that it's bad. What's

0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:38.400
<v Speaker 1>your take on that?

0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Yes, I mean social cohesion, of course is slightly in

0:12:42.120 --> 0:12:44.360
<v Speaker 2>the eye of the beholder, isn't it. I mean it's

0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:47.720
<v Speaker 2>not an absolute term. Everyone judges it in different ways.

0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:50.440
<v Speaker 2>I think what Lancaster is saying is they want to

0:12:50.440 --> 0:12:53.920
<v Speaker 2>investigate and try and redraw the line, if you like,

0:12:54.360 --> 0:12:58.280
<v Speaker 2>between anti semitism and freedom of expression. I mean you know,

0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:02.840
<v Speaker 2>for example, in tertiary institutions, with those protests on campus,

0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.200
<v Speaker 2>academics claimed academic freedom for saying what they were saying

0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.440
<v Speaker 2>in their criticism of Israel, but often that straight into

0:13:09.480 --> 0:13:13.080
<v Speaker 2>anti Semitism, and so that was used to justification, if

0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:16.839
<v Speaker 2>you like, for antismitic comments. In the arts community, we've

0:13:16.880 --> 0:13:21.000
<v Speaker 2>had a similar blurred line between so called creative freedom

0:13:21.480 --> 0:13:24.480
<v Speaker 2>and comments which border on anti Semitism. We had the

0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:28.120
<v Speaker 2>Adelaide Writers' Festival controversy, for example. I think what the

0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:30.800
<v Speaker 2>Royal Commission will seek to do, which is an almost

0:13:30.800 --> 0:13:35.120
<v Speaker 2>impossible task, to be honest, is draw those lines in

0:13:35.160 --> 0:13:39.040
<v Speaker 2>what they see as a reasonable and balanced way between

0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:49.559
<v Speaker 2>freedom and expression and avoiding veering into anti Semitism.

0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:54.720
<v Speaker 1>In that quite fevered moment where members of the Jewish

0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.559
<v Speaker 1>community were lobbying Anthony Albanesi to hold a Royal Commission,

0:13:58.920 --> 0:14:02.199
<v Speaker 1>there were also suggestions for judges who could be the commissioner.

0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:05.559
<v Speaker 1>One was Federal Court Justice Michael Lee, another was former

0:14:05.720 --> 0:14:08.600
<v Speaker 1>High Court Chief Justice Robert French. They were people who

0:14:08.679 --> 0:14:11.880
<v Speaker 1>members of the Jewish community thought would be fair to

0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:15.360
<v Speaker 1>their point of view. There was some concern about Virginia Bell,

0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:19.560
<v Speaker 1>Josh Friedenberg, the former federal Treasurer, said that he had

0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:22.720
<v Speaker 1>heard concerns about Virginia Bell from the Jewish community, although

0:14:22.760 --> 0:14:26.160
<v Speaker 1>it was never quite identified exactly what those concerns would be.

0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:31.760
<v Speaker 1>What was your sense on Tuesday of how Virginia Bell's

0:14:31.800 --> 0:14:33.600
<v Speaker 1>going to be and how her conduct of this is

0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:35.160
<v Speaker 1>going to go down with the Jewish community.

0:14:35.480 --> 0:14:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I mean, those criticisms I think were puzzling because they

0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.680
<v Speaker 2>were so vague. We never got to the heart of

0:14:41.720 --> 0:14:44.480
<v Speaker 2>what the concerns were, and I think they were very counterproductive,

0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:46.640
<v Speaker 2>frankly for the Jewish community to have done. I mean,

0:14:46.840 --> 0:14:49.360
<v Speaker 2>they'd finally got that we should have the Royal Commission announced,

0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:51.440
<v Speaker 2>and then they're complaining about the Commissioner, and I think

0:14:51.520 --> 0:14:53.840
<v Speaker 2>that was just a step too far, and I think

0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.200
<v Speaker 2>they regretted it fairly quickly. To be honest, I think

0:14:56.200 --> 0:14:58.560
<v Speaker 2>they should be reassured by what Commissioner Bell said. I

0:14:58.600 --> 0:15:00.680
<v Speaker 2>think she made a point a smatism will be the

0:15:00.800 --> 0:15:03.720
<v Speaker 2>number one focus. She's not going to be debating a

0:15:03.760 --> 0:15:06.520
<v Speaker 2>softening of the standards of anti Semitism as far as

0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.000
<v Speaker 2>the Declaration of it goes. She's going to be practical

0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 2>and to get through as many of the terms of

0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.080
<v Speaker 2>references as she can in the most comprehensive manner possible.

0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:17.080
<v Speaker 2>I think she was pretty impressive, and I think the

0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:20.360
<v Speaker 2>Jewish community, at least from the small amount that we saw,

0:15:20.400 --> 0:15:21.840
<v Speaker 2>should take comforting what we heard.

0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:27.680
<v Speaker 1>Cameron Stewart is The Australian's chief international correspondent. Thanks Cam Pleasure.

0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.080
<v Speaker 1>You can check out Cameron's reporting and all our coverage

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:38.120
<v Speaker 1>of the Royal Commission right now at the Australian dot

0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:39.040
<v Speaker 1>com dot au