1 00:00:03,880 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey. 2 00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 1: It's Wednesday, February twenty five, twenty twenty six. Labor frontbencher 3 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,360 Speaker 1: Julian Hill says the concerns of people who marched in 4 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,919 Speaker 1: March for Australia anti immigration rallies should be listened to, 5 00:00:20,239 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: not dismissed. Hill is the Assistant Minister for Multiculturalism and 6 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: he referenced March for Australia's concerns about what he calls 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:35,480 Speaker 1: unacceptable cultural practices on Australian soil, including homophobia, gender discrimination 8 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 1: and forced marriage. That story is live right now at 9 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: the Australian dot Com dot a U. The Federal Opposition 10 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,280 Speaker 1: wants a full review of the work done by e 11 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: Safety Commissioner Julie Inman Grant. That's after a Federal court 12 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: finding she's been operating outside the scope of her powers. 13 00:00:56,120 --> 00:01:00,320 Speaker 1: Coalition spokesperson for Communications Sarah Henderson says the government should 14 00:01:00,360 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: probe how many potentially unlawful removal notices the commissioner has 15 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: issued What's antisemitism and what's free speech? The first day 16 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,680 Speaker 1: of the Bondai Beach massacre. Royal Commission has gone there 17 00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:19,399 Speaker 1: right at the top. Commissioner Virginia Bell and Council assisting 18 00:01:19,480 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: Richard Lancaster say they believe Australians can all agree that 19 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: antisemitism is out of control and empathy needs to come back. 20 00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:31,759 Speaker 1: But is that wildly optimistic in today's climate? Today, Chief 21 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 1: International Correspondent Cameron Stewart joins us to assess where this 22 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 1: probe is going. Cameron Stewart is the Australian's Chief international 23 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 1: correspondent and just like me, he was watching the opening 24 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:49,760 Speaker 1: addresses of the Bondai Royal Commission. Cam it's going to be, 25 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 1: of course about the Bondai Beach massacre in which fifteen 26 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:55,920 Speaker 1: people died. Of course, somebody is up on charges in 27 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: relation to that. Navide R Crumb, one of the shooters, 28 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:02,280 Speaker 1: the other shooter our crime, was shot dead at the scene. 29 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: So there's a criminal process underway. How's the Royal Commission 30 00:02:06,160 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 1: going to do its work with that in the background? 31 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,440 Speaker 2: Claire, Although the references of the Royal Commission are to 32 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:14,200 Speaker 2: look at the circumstances leading up to the shooting, including 33 00:02:14,240 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 2: the intelligence and law enforcement response as well, and what 34 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 2: they knew quite clearly because there were criminal proceedings of 35 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: Foot Commissioner Bell said, Look, there's some things we simply 36 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: mon't be able to talk about, certainly not in public. 37 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 2: They suggested there would be quite a few private, closed 38 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 2: door hearings in relation to that aspect of the Royal Commission. 39 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,040 Speaker 2: I think everyone understands that, of course, the Royal Commision 40 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:36,519 Speaker 2: does have to be extremely careful not to prejudice those 41 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:40,680 Speaker 2: criminal charges against that surviving government. And so that's what 42 00:02:40,720 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 2: she was saying. Look, we will be looking at this, 43 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 2: but we will be looking at it with those constraints 44 00:02:45,200 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 2: in mind. 45 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:51,359 Speaker 1: Can Virginia Bell said she'd be using the International Holocaust 46 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:56,520 Speaker 1: Remembrance Association's definition of anti Semitism. Now, for people who 47 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: are unfamiliar with this, this is hot. Over the past 48 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:03,399 Speaker 1: couple of years, there's been great controversy about what antisemitism 49 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:08,200 Speaker 1: actually is and how it interacts or lives alongside freedom 50 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: of speech and the right of people who believe that 51 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:13,760 Speaker 1: Israel has done the wrong things in its war in 52 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: Gaza to express that opinion. Let's hear Virginia Bell reading 53 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: aloud that International Holocaust Remembrance association IRA definition of antisemitism. 54 00:03:25,919 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 3: The definition itself is uncontroversial. It provides antisemitism is a 55 00:03:33,600 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 3: certain perception of Jews, which may be expressed as a 56 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 3: hatred towards Jews. Rhetorical and physical manifestations of antisemitism are 57 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 3: directed toward Jewish or non Jewish individuals and or their property, 58 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 3: toward Jewish community institutions and religious facilities. The definition is 59 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 3: accompanied by eleven exacts examples of conduct which could amount 60 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 3: to anti Semitism. At least two of the examples are 61 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:12,680 Speaker 3: controversial and have led some critics to argue that the 62 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 3: IRA working definition wrongly labels as anti Semitic the expression 63 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 3: of political views which do not reflect a hatred of Jews. 64 00:04:25,640 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: Now, Virginia Bell didn't say exactly which examples she was 65 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 1: talking about there, But I went and had a look 66 00:04:30,520 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: at that IRA definition cam and I think this might 67 00:04:33,640 --> 00:04:36,920 Speaker 1: be what she's talking about. The eleven examples listed by 68 00:04:36,960 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: IRA things that are antisemitism start with calling for aiding 69 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,039 Speaker 1: or justifying the killing or harming of Jews in the 70 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,239 Speaker 1: name of a radical ideology or an extremist view of religion. 71 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,640 Speaker 1: That one's pretty uncontroversial. Another one that I think is 72 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:57,280 Speaker 1: uncontroversial is making mendacious, dehumanizing demonizing or stereotypical allegations about Jews, 73 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: and it goes on like that. But the ones of 74 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,880 Speaker 1: a Niebel identified are controversial, I would suggest, are these. 75 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:08,800 Speaker 1: Example ten is drawing comparisons of contemporary Israeli policy to 76 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: that of the Nazis. Example seven is denying the Jewish 77 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 1: people their right to self determination, for example, by claiming 78 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: that the existence of a state of Israel is a 79 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: racist endeavor, or promoting myths about a world Jewish conspiracy 80 00:05:23,800 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 1: or Jews controlling the media, and so on. Kem, You've 81 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 1: been at protests throughout the past couple of years about 82 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:34,520 Speaker 1: the war in Gaza. We have seen people saying those 83 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: things in the streets of Sydney and Melbourne and Brisbane 84 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: since October seven, haven't we that Israel is a Nazi 85 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: state and that Jews control everything? 86 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: Look, that's right. Certainly, the activist movement, the activist ramp 87 00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:50,680 Speaker 2: of the pro Palestinian movement, doesn't really even try to 88 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 2: separate the politics of Israel with criticism of Jewish people 89 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,440 Speaker 2: in Australia. I mean, that's the unfortunate fact. That's what 90 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,080 Speaker 2: we've seen play out on the streets for over two 91 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: years now, and you know, that's obviously one of the 92 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: root causes here of the tensions that arise in anti 93 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 2: semitism we've seen over the past two and a half years. 94 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 2: And I think what Commissioner Bell was saying was, look, 95 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:14,359 Speaker 2: she accepts there have been debates about that definition of 96 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:16,880 Speaker 2: anti Semitism, but the fact is clear that the Albanisia 97 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,880 Speaker 2: government has accepted that definition. And what she's saying is, 98 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 2: we're not going to get bogged down in this Royal 99 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: Commission having endless debates about this. We can't do that. 100 00:06:25,680 --> 00:06:27,839 Speaker 2: We need to move on and look at the actual issues. 101 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:30,040 Speaker 2: She did make the point though, which of course is 102 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: a very correct point, that just mere criticism of the 103 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: policies of the Israeli government does not constitute anti Semitism. 104 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 2: So she was very clear on that point. But she 105 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,360 Speaker 2: did say We're not going to get bogged down on 106 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 2: definitions of anti Semitism in this Royal Commission. 107 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: It's interesting, though, isn't it. Cam By going there on 108 00:06:47,240 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: day one in her opening address, she kind of has 109 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 1: set this out as a battleground that it is going 110 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: to be addressed. I mean, I'm imagining that these public 111 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: hearings are going to involve people wearing kefias and people 112 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: who are not hashing it out in public using this 113 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,160 Speaker 1: as an opportunity to kind of grandstand about exactly these 114 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:08,599 Speaker 1: issues from both sides. 115 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 2: What do you think, Yeah, look, that's right. What she's 116 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 2: interestingly done is she's made the point which might seem 117 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 2: a very obvious point to people if she's doing a 118 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,240 Speaker 2: Royal commission on anti Semitism, but she said that I 119 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 2: am going to prioritize throughout this Royal Commission the focus 120 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 2: on anti Semitism. And what she then said was I 121 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:30,240 Speaker 2: do accept, of course that other religions experience in tolerance 122 00:07:30,240 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 2: and prejudice against them as well. However, as a starting point, 123 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,240 Speaker 2: we've had the massacre of people at Bondai. That's my 124 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 2: starting point. We are going to focus on anti Semitism. 125 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 2: And I think that's an important point for her to 126 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:46,120 Speaker 2: make their clear because certainly you've got a lot of 127 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,280 Speaker 2: claims by propalasity in groups that Islamophobia in Australia is 128 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 2: just as big a problem as anti Semitism, and so 129 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 2: I think she's clearing the ground to say, look, we 130 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 2: have fifteen people who have been killed at Bondai, you 131 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 2: have synagogues that have been burnt down, people are asking 132 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,480 Speaker 2: out to school, et cetera. I mean, is quite clearly 133 00:08:03,680 --> 00:08:06,920 Speaker 2: a bigger problem than Islamophobia. She didn't say all those 134 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:08,640 Speaker 2: in her words, but that's what she was meaning. 135 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, let's justist into a little snippet of that. 136 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 3: I'm mindful that while antisemitism may be the oldest religious 137 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 3: and ethnic prejudice, other religions and ethnicities are also subject 138 00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 3: to prejudice in Australia. I expect that social cohesion will 139 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 3: be advanced by measures that address discrimination against religious faiths, 140 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:45,040 Speaker 3: ethnicities and cultures generally. Nonetheless, against the background of the 141 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:49,559 Speaker 3: massacre of innocent people who appear to have been targeted 142 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 3: simply because they were Jewish. I trust everyone will appreciate 143 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 3: why the focus of this Commission will be on tackling 144 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:05,120 Speaker 3: anti senmmotism as a starting point in strengthening our bonds 145 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:06,320 Speaker 3: of social cohesion. 146 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: Cam. I mean, she seems pretty optimistic there to me. 147 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think that everyone who is going 148 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,960 Speaker 1: to be giving evidence that this Royal Commission is going 149 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 1: to accept that antisemitism short or be or is the 150 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:21,400 Speaker 1: starting point. What do you think? 151 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 2: Look, I think it absolutely has to be the starting point, 152 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,720 Speaker 2: because I think quite clearly that has been the main 153 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,480 Speaker 2: form of racial hatred we've seen in Australia for the 154 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,320 Speaker 2: last two and a half years, and it's called led 155 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 2: indirectly or directly, we don't exactly know it to another 156 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,640 Speaker 2: for evidence to the massacret Bondo. So look, I think 157 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: it's entirely correct that she takes that approach. But you're 158 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: right clear. There will be a lot of people who 159 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,720 Speaker 2: will be debating this in the hearings, and I think 160 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:45,719 Speaker 2: this is one of the interesting things about this Royal 161 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 2: Commission because it goes into social cohesion as well as 162 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:52,600 Speaker 2: anti semitism. There's a lot of sort of subjective matters 163 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 2: here which will be the point of argument during the hearings, 164 00:09:57,280 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 2: and I think there's going to be quite a few passions. 165 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:01,840 Speaker 2: There'll be people who are upset by what is unearthed 166 00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,200 Speaker 2: of the hearings and what is said, and some of 167 00:10:04,240 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 2: those people who actually opposed the Royal Commission originally said, look, listen, 168 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,760 Speaker 2: it will undermine social cohesion to have all these views 169 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 2: expressed in public. But look, I think the contrary argument 170 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 2: to that, and I think a better argument is that 171 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 2: social cohesion was fraying and has been praying in Australia anyway. 172 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 2: You certainly can't get much more afraid than having fifteen 173 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 2: dead people at bondnine and terror attack, and so these 174 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:29,840 Speaker 2: things need to be aired. But I think we're going 175 00:10:29,880 --> 00:10:32,600 Speaker 2: to be up for some very emotional and passionate hearings 176 00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 2: in the months ahead. 177 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: Richard Lancaster SC who's the council assisting the Royal Commission, 178 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:57,680 Speaker 1: went to this point about social cohesion. Let's just listen 179 00:10:57,720 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: to that. 180 00:10:59,160 --> 00:11:03,000 Speaker 4: Let us patent to social cohesion as the national consensus 181 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:05,720 Speaker 4: in support of democracy, freedom and the rule of law. 182 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,280 Speaker 4: The consensus to which the letters patent refer is not 183 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 4: a uniformity of opinion, nor does it require or involve 184 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,680 Speaker 4: the suppression of fair criticism and debate. It is quite 185 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 4: the opposite. In my submission, it is a consensus that 186 00:11:21,800 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 4: a diverse, multicultural society can subsist and thrive only by 187 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 4: mutual acceptance of our respective democratic freedoms exercised according to law. 188 00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 4: Social cohesion begins with empathy. A large part of the 189 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,720 Speaker 4: work of this Commission will be to present evidence to 190 00:11:40,800 --> 00:11:44,160 Speaker 4: allow a broader understanding of the scourge of anti Semitism. 191 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,760 Speaker 4: Its nature and prevalence throughout Australian society and its impact 192 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,559 Speaker 4: on the lives of fellow Australians. Through that understanding, there 193 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,320 Speaker 4: may be opportunities to improve. 194 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,280 Speaker 1: I think many people in the Jewish community can are 195 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: hoping that what comes out of this Royal Commission is 196 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:07,360 Speaker 1: a criticism essentially of governments for allowing, for example, March 197 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 1: is over the Harbor Bridge marches in every city every 198 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:16,080 Speaker 1: weekend for two years, where critics of Israel loudly suggested 199 00:12:16,120 --> 00:12:19,319 Speaker 1: that Israel was a terrorist state, Israel was a Nazi state, 200 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:25,319 Speaker 1: and so on. I just really wonder about Richard Lancaster's again, 201 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 1: I think quite optimistic idea there that just by existing 202 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 1: and hearing evidence, the Royal Commission is going to convince 203 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: everyone that antisemitism is real and that it's bad. What's 204 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: your take on that? 205 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,080 Speaker 2: Yes, I mean social cohesion, of course is slightly in 206 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: the eye of the beholder, isn't it. I mean it's 207 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,720 Speaker 2: not an absolute term. Everyone judges it in different ways. 208 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 2: I think what Lancaster is saying is they want to 209 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 2: investigate and try and redraw the line, if you like, 210 00:12:54,360 --> 00:12:58,280 Speaker 2: between anti semitism and freedom of expression. I mean you know, 211 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,840 Speaker 2: for example, in tertiary institutions, with those protests on campus, 212 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:06,200 Speaker 2: academics claimed academic freedom for saying what they were saying 213 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 2: in their criticism of Israel, but often that straight into 214 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:13,080 Speaker 2: anti Semitism, and so that was used to justification, if 215 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 2: you like, for antismitic comments. In the arts community, we've 216 00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 2: had a similar blurred line between so called creative freedom 217 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 2: and comments which border on anti Semitism. We had the 218 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 2: Adelaide Writers' Festival controversy, for example. I think what the 219 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 2: Royal Commission will seek to do, which is an almost 220 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,120 Speaker 2: impossible task, to be honest, is draw those lines in 221 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:39,040 Speaker 2: what they see as a reasonable and balanced way between 222 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:49,559 Speaker 2: freedom and expression and avoiding veering into anti Semitism. 223 00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 1: In that quite fevered moment where members of the Jewish 224 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,559 Speaker 1: community were lobbying Anthony Albanesi to hold a Royal Commission, 225 00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,199 Speaker 1: there were also suggestions for judges who could be the commissioner. 226 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 1: One was Federal Court Justice Michael Lee, another was former 227 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,600 Speaker 1: High Court Chief Justice Robert French. They were people who 228 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:11,880 Speaker 1: members of the Jewish community thought would be fair to 229 00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,360 Speaker 1: their point of view. There was some concern about Virginia Bell, 230 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: Josh Friedenberg, the former federal Treasurer, said that he had 231 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: heard concerns about Virginia Bell from the Jewish community, although 232 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,160 Speaker 1: it was never quite identified exactly what those concerns would be. 233 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 1: What was your sense on Tuesday of how Virginia Bell's 234 00:14:31,800 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 1: going to be and how her conduct of this is 235 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:35,160 Speaker 1: going to go down with the Jewish community. 236 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,960 Speaker 2: I mean, those criticisms I think were puzzling because they 237 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 2: were so vague. We never got to the heart of 238 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 2: what the concerns were, and I think they were very counterproductive, 239 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:46,640 Speaker 2: frankly for the Jewish community to have done. I mean, 240 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 2: they'd finally got that we should have the Royal Commission announced, 241 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: and then they're complaining about the Commissioner, and I think 242 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,840 Speaker 2: that was just a step too far, and I think 243 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,200 Speaker 2: they regretted it fairly quickly. To be honest, I think 244 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,560 Speaker 2: they should be reassured by what Commissioner Bell said. I 245 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 2: think she made a point a smatism will be the 246 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 2: number one focus. She's not going to be debating a 247 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,520 Speaker 2: softening of the standards of anti Semitism as far as 248 00:15:06,560 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: the Declaration of it goes. She's going to be practical 249 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 2: and to get through as many of the terms of 250 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 2: references as she can in the most comprehensive manner possible. 251 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 2: I think she was pretty impressive, and I think the 252 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 2: Jewish community, at least from the small amount that we saw, 253 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: should take comforting what we heard. 254 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: Cameron Stewart is The Australian's chief international correspondent. Thanks Cam Pleasure. 255 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,080 Speaker 1: You can check out Cameron's reporting and all our coverage 256 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 1: of the Royal Commission right now at the Australian dot 257 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: com dot au