WEBVTT - #2091 Borderline Personality Disorder - Kelsey Packwood 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:04.520 I'll get eight champions. I hope you're bloody terrific. It's 0:00:04.559 --> 0:00:09.160 the project that's you. It's a Thursday. It's all going 0:00:09.200 --> 0:00:11.440 on over here at Camp Harps and Camp Tip will 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:13.720 introduce our guests in a moment. TI if I didn't 0:00:13.720 --> 0:00:16.360 want to tell you this because I didn't want you 0:00:16.440 --> 0:00:21.319 to cry af air, but I have some news. So 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:23.600 tell everyone what time it is as we're recording. 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:25.920 It's ten am. 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:30.520 Yeah, it's ten oh four five. Let's be honest to 0:00:30.600 --> 0:00:33.519 go on, go on. The Jumbo Jumbo's going into hospital 0:00:33.560 --> 0:00:39.159 at twelve fun Jumbo's going in for new ears. 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:41.800 I think I spent three and a half seconds and 0:00:41.920 --> 0:00:43.800 thinking you were getting a dog today, And you have 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:46.960 no idea the excitement that brewed inside my body that 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:48.400 now it will not dissipate. 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:52.080 And I'm conferable the dogs. What about what about my hospital? 0:00:54.080 --> 0:00:56.840 I tell you what's very brave, and I'm so proud 0:00:56.840 --> 0:00:58.440 that you're fixing your ears. 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.480 Well, I would be much happier getting a fucking Golden 0:01:02.520 --> 0:01:10.120 Retriever puppy, but this is what today requires. So Kelsey, Hi, Hello, 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:11.679 how are you? 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:15.399 I'm good? Also, I would be much happier if I 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:18.480 was getting a Golden Retriever puppy as well. I had 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:19.560 one a long time ago. 0:01:19.800 --> 0:01:23.720 But yeah, well I'm getting a new puppy this year, 0:01:23.800 --> 0:01:28.200 so Tiff is probably, i would say, on a par 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:32.840 with me in terms of excitement, And I somehow think 0:01:33.080 --> 0:01:36.240 she thinks that it's kind of somehow going to be 0:01:36.680 --> 0:01:42.960 kind of her puppy, which I feel like, I'll come 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:46.120 home from something and the dog will be gone, and 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:49.080 there'll be a small note from Tiff going, no need 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:54.080 to worry, all good, yeah, no good, Yeah, and then 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:55.800 I'll have to ring the cops and go, there's a 0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.480 fucking dog napping that's gone on, and I'll have to 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:01.280 send them a photo of her. It's going to be 0:02:01.280 --> 0:02:05.120 a whole thing. It's going to be messy anyway. But 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:08.400 uh yeah, yeah, fuck my is, let's get Let's get 0:02:08.400 --> 0:02:12.079 a puppy. That's a much better idea. How long go 0:02:12.240 --> 0:02:13.880 did you have a Golden Er Treva Kelsey? 0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:19.760 Oh? Like, I adopted my dad's friends Golden Retrievers when 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:21.919 I was like in middle school, when we moved across 0:02:21.960 --> 0:02:25.640 the country and when we moved into because we stayed 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.400 with them for a while when we moved into our place. 0:02:27.600 --> 0:02:30.440 We got she was older, she wasn't a puppy, but 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:33.720 she her name was Angie. She was blind. So this 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:39.040 was back in the mid twenty tens and we had 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.320 it for like four years, and we didn't know she 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:43.800 was blind when we got her, but shortly after we 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:47.320 realized she couldn't see because she was bumping into the walls. 0:02:48.480 --> 0:02:52.880 So yeah, Jiff does that too. She bounced into things, 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:56.680 but only when she's hungry because she can't focus on shit. 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.080 So you give her a copkake or a cookie and 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.799 her set and Nev comes back on lawn. So it's 0:03:05.560 --> 0:03:09.800 all right. Well, so Kelsey, tell my uh listeners, who 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:12.360 you are? What do you do? Like, what what's the uh, 0:03:13.080 --> 0:03:14.239 what's the deal with you? 0:03:15.200 --> 0:03:18.720 Yeah, well, my name is Kelsey Packwood and I am 0:03:18.840 --> 0:03:23.840 a filmmaker, and I guess in the umbrella of filmmaking, 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:28.079 I would say I'm a director, a writer, producer, and 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:32.760 an actor and I've been focusing on telling a story 0:03:32.760 --> 0:03:38.160 about mental health and borderline personality disorder. So yeah, if 0:03:38.200 --> 0:03:40.960 you had asked me a year and a half ago, 0:03:41.160 --> 0:03:43.520 I couldn't have told you I was a director. So 0:03:43.640 --> 0:03:47.840 that's kind of been a newer hat that I'm wearing, 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:51.120 but it's been it's been a comfortable hat. It felt 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:54.880 like I I definitely fell into that pretty easily. 0:03:55.000 --> 0:03:59.880 So that's the Uh, what's the being the biggest learning curve? 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:05.080 You producing, directing, writing, or acting? That's question one and 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.280 question two? Where are you in your natural Habitat the 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:09.760 most I. 0:04:10.000 --> 0:04:12.680 Would have told you it was acting, but I think 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:16.560 I think producing because you can just like make a 0:04:16.600 --> 0:04:18.760 list of things and make them happen. And I don't 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.440 know how, but I was able to make a lot 0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:24.000 of things happen to make my pilot. But also what's 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:26.400 been the most challenging is the marketing aspects, like the 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:31.320 you know, social media strategy. I feel like I'm learning 0:04:31.320 --> 0:04:34.559 a lot, but it's it's so cool to take something 0:04:34.600 --> 0:04:36.960 that you created out of nothing and then like share 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:38.680 it with the world, but it's it's hard to get 0:04:38.720 --> 0:04:40.920 things out there sometimes undersent. 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:47.360 I feel like, you know, even podcasting obviously different thing, 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:54.080 different level, but film producing, writing, obviously, acting, directing, and 0:04:54.120 --> 0:04:56.840 even marketing it's like you might have this great thing, 0:04:56.880 --> 0:05:00.360 but no one knows about it. Well, good good luck 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.320 making a few bucks, right so, and good luck having 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:06.560 a commercial. Oh it's amazing. No one's seen it, by 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:09.360 the way, but it's amazing. It's like I'm the most 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:12.400 brilliant artist in the world. Nobody's seen any of my work, 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:15.680 and nobody's bored a painting. But I'm super gifted, which 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.359 is nice. But yes, so I feel like all of 0:05:19.360 --> 0:05:26.240 that stuff is constance problem solving. Like I did three 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:30.800 podcasts before this that didn't work, Like that didn't work commercially, right, 0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:34.000 they were okay, but you're like, okay, first one, what 0:05:34.040 --> 0:05:36.159 do we learn? What went okay? What went shit? What 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:37.880 do I need to do more of less of? What 0:05:37.960 --> 0:05:40.400 didn't I understand? What do I understand now? How do 0:05:40.480 --> 0:05:42.479 I need to be different? What did the audience want? 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:45.120 What's going to resonate? How do I share this idea 0:05:45.160 --> 0:05:48.039 in a way that's not complicated but still explaining the 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:51.040 guts of the idea while being relevant for the average person. 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:54.400 And then version two, and then version three, and then finally, 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:58.679 you know, the fourth installment or the fourth Incarnation, which 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.200 you're currently sitting on the new project. Even that took 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.479 about six hundred episodes before it was like for me 0:06:06.240 --> 0:06:10.560 worth doing financially. You know, we're over two thousand now, 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:15.000 But I literally spent three or four years just trying 0:06:15.000 --> 0:06:20.000 to figure out this this podcast algorithm, Like how do 0:06:20.120 --> 0:06:22.560 I Because I know the shit that I know is 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.159 relevant to people, and I know I'm a little bit 0:06:25.200 --> 0:06:27.760 amusing and a little bit interesting at times sometimes a 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.239 fucking idiot also, but how do I how do I 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:35.040 operationalize what I have in a way that people are 0:06:35.040 --> 0:06:37.000 going to want to come back and want to you know, 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.440 So for you, how are people going to Are people 0:06:39.440 --> 0:06:42.159 going to want to come to your next show or 0:06:42.160 --> 0:06:44.960 your next doco or your next whatever it is. So 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:48.400 I feel like it's high level problem solving on an 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:49.839 ongoing basis. 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.200 Totally, and you can't get too comfortable because you can 0:06:53.560 --> 0:06:56.479 plateau a little bit and everything that you were saying. 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:58.919 I feel like I went through all those phases of like, Okay, 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.120 I have an idea. I know that this is a 0:07:01.240 --> 0:07:05.120 large problem that if we can get enough attention and 0:07:05.279 --> 0:07:09.560 enough heads together to do enough research and really educate 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.040 the public, then I think that this is a topic 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:16.240 that won't be so stigmatized, won't be so terrifying for 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.760 people to talk about. So it's just like, how can 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.840 I then translate that into a twenty eight minute episode 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:26.040 of television that engages my audience, has them relate to me, 0:07:26.640 --> 0:07:30.440 and then makes a difference, makes an impact, and then 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.640 has that person spread the word and say, hey, I 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.440 saw this really amazing thing. And what I've noticed is 0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:40.760 I've had a lot of support in the BPD community specifically, 0:07:41.080 --> 0:07:44.239 because if you know BBD, if you know somebody who's BBD, 0:07:44.320 --> 0:07:46.720 you know how challenging it is. You know how painful 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:48.800 it can be, not just for the person who's suffering 0:07:48.800 --> 0:07:53.680 with BBD, but the people around them. And so I've 0:07:53.720 --> 0:07:57.200 noticed that you can have like such a powerful, amazing 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:01.040 project and like, unless people really start spreading the word 0:08:01.080 --> 0:08:06.000 for you, it's very difficult to get anywhere. But then 0:08:06.040 --> 0:08:08.200 at the same time, it's like it doesn't happen overnight. 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.160 So four years sounds great. I came up with my 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.760 idea four years ago. It took me three out of 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.440 those four years to then film it, and then a 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:21.080 year of getting it into the right hands to be seen. 0:08:21.280 --> 0:08:24.400 So it's anything worthwhile. It takes a lot of time 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:26.160 and care, tender look. 0:08:26.280 --> 0:08:29.200 And for every one of you, there's another ten thousand 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:33.520 of you, fifty hundred thousand of you with kind of 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:37.800 the same intention or similar or similar drive or similar aspirations. 0:08:38.200 --> 0:08:40.920 You know, in the podcasting world. I think it's like 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:46.240 the average podcast loves last seven episodes and almost one 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.400 hundred percent, but not like ninety nine point five percent 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:54.560 of or more podcasts make zero dollars like zero, you know, 0:08:54.600 --> 0:08:57.199 they don't have sponsors. They don't actually, which is fine. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:58.960 I mean, if all you want to do is have 0:08:59.000 --> 0:09:01.440 a podcast and talk to cool people and hang out, 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.440 then you're succeeding if that's your goal. But yeah, to 0:09:04.520 --> 0:09:07.960 actually take your idea and then turn that into a 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:13.040 creative success, a financial success, a personal success, and something 0:09:13.080 --> 0:09:16.920 that's potentially doing some good in the world where this 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:21.280 information and inspiration and education is needed. That's that's not 0:09:21.360 --> 0:09:24.520 a quick or easy process, right. 0:09:25.040 --> 0:09:27.520 Right, you know, and it goes with it. I was 0:09:27.559 --> 0:09:31.480 thinking about this with all kinds of art or major ideas. 0:09:31.520 --> 0:09:34.600 Like a song, it couldn't exist if this person didn't 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.360 write it first. They make the money after. But yeah, 0:09:37.400 --> 0:09:38.959 you don't even think about that. When they're like the 0:09:39.000 --> 0:09:41.640 biggest star in the world. You're like, oh, they have millions, millions. 0:09:41.720 --> 0:09:44.280 Like when you really strip it back, it's like, well, 0:09:44.320 --> 0:09:46.280 initially they had to come up with the song first. 0:09:46.320 --> 0:09:48.000 They came out of them. And that's what I think 0:09:48.080 --> 0:09:51.000 also happened with me, Like these words that I wrote, 0:09:51.240 --> 0:09:54.520 they came out of me, almost without me even thinking. 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:56.760 It just was in me and it just happened. So 0:09:57.240 --> 0:10:00.360 there is some spiritual element to it too. I think 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:07.160 when you're passing on knowledge or showkissing art at a high. 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:10.520 Level, I agree tif to you. You might not. I don't, 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:13.800 I should, but I'm old, you're young. The dude that 0:10:13.840 --> 0:10:17.120 we had on who wrote a book like twenty years ago, 0:10:17.440 --> 0:10:20.280 a really good book, but it didn't sell like it 0:10:20.320 --> 0:10:23.240 didn't you know, it did Okay, he probably sold a 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.679 few thousand copies, but it didn't catch fire. And then 0:10:26.920 --> 0:10:30.679 about a year ago, a major league baseball player was sitting, 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:32.640 you know, like he was in the game, as in 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:34.760 he was playing, but he was sitting in the dugout 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.880 waiting for his turn to bat or whatever, and he 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:42.520 was reading this guy's book, right, And so the TV 0:10:42.640 --> 0:10:46.400 camera zoomed in on this book and they're like, what 0:10:46.559 --> 0:10:48.640 is he reading? And then the name of the book 0:10:48.679 --> 0:10:52.000 came up, and then the producers research it in real 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.079 time and they're like, oh, this guy wrote this book, 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:56.720 it's about that, And then they kept cutting back to 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:59.000 this guy who's literally in the middle of a game 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:04.000 obviously not his turn at bat or whatever, but and 0:11:04.080 --> 0:11:09.120 he was yes, And so that dude Kelsey went from 0:11:09.240 --> 0:11:14.000 oblivion to doing all the national talk shows in a week. 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.880 He got booked out for speaking, like his book became famous, 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.720 and he became famous. I should remember anyway, I interviewed 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:25.640 him really good, dude. I feel bad, but I've interviewed 0:11:25.640 --> 0:11:27.400 two thousand people, so I don't feel that bad. 0:11:27.440 --> 0:11:30.280 But you know, it's like a lot of pieces and 0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:34.679 names to remember. Yeah, he'll be calling incredible story. I mean, 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:38.320 that's that's that's totally the magic of life. And yes, 0:11:39.280 --> 0:11:43.160 you can't even create that energy that just that just happened. 0:11:43.200 --> 0:11:44.640 That's that's incredible. I love that. 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:47.520 I love this. I'm just going to if you figure 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:50.840 that out, let me know, just interrupt me. You don't 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:57.040 need to. By the way, Kelsey is the writer and 0:11:57.120 --> 0:12:00.839 creator of Borderline, a half hour traumity. I've never heard that, 0:12:00.920 --> 0:12:04.040 but I understand that's. I love that word. That's clever, 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.920 a half hour traumany scripted series based on her lived 0:12:07.960 --> 0:12:13.800 experience with Borderline Personality is sort of BPD. Kelsey's directional 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.839 debut of Borderline premiere at Sony Picture January sixteen, twenty 0:12:17.840 --> 0:12:23.480 twenty five. So pretty much this time last year. Well 0:12:23.559 --> 0:12:26.040 done you. I mean, I don't know, I'm not going 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:27.480 to ask you how old you are, but you look 0:12:27.559 --> 0:12:33.080 fucking twelve. So well done. I mean it's like, you know, 0:12:33.559 --> 0:12:36.079 I look like I could be a great great granddad. 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:42.440 But that's that's amazing. Did you How did your friends 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.079 and family respond to you know, I'm sure you're very 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.920 talented and always have been. But did they go, of 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.360 course you did that, that's what you do, of course, 0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:53.640 or did they go, how the fuck did you pull 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:54.120 that off? 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.560 You know, that's so funny. I think that, Like I 0:12:57.559 --> 0:13:03.040 think my immediate family isn't totally surprised. But the story 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.760 is about my dad and I. You know, when I 0:13:06.800 --> 0:13:09.600 get diagnosed with VPD, there's a rift in our relationship, 0:13:10.160 --> 0:13:14.040 and so you know, he wasn't really around for those 0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:18.760 years where I was creating the show and rewriting the scripts, 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:21.040 and so when it came time to make the movie 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:23.200 and get it all done, and by the time my 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.240 dad had seen it, he had no idea what to expect. 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.160 He had no idea what quality to expect. I mean, 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:33.280 first time making my own film didn't mean that I 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:38.080 hadn't experienced many film sets. So it all somehow seamlessly 0:13:38.120 --> 0:13:42.720 came together down to, like the fundraising elements of I 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.720 had exactly what I needed when I shot the pilot, 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.200 you know, and I didn't have what I needed for 0:13:48.240 --> 0:13:52.240 post production, so I raised that later. But when I 0:13:52.280 --> 0:13:56.080 did my little call out on my Instagram asking, hey, like, 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:58.760 I have these roles, these positions to fill on the crew, 0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:01.880 and you know, don't have a lot of money to pay, 0:14:02.200 --> 0:14:05.600 but maybe I will when I raise it. Does anybody 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.160 want to work on this thing? Two day shoot like 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:13.199 in April of this year, And so yeah, it just 0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:16.920 kind of just worked. And so I don't think I 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:22.120 even realized how quick it all happened and how well 0:14:22.160 --> 0:14:24.880 it went until I saw it for the first time, 0:14:24.960 --> 0:14:27.440 Like until I was with my editor Chris Rosenbloom, who 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.280 he was such a life saver and such a talented 0:14:30.280 --> 0:14:34.200 guy who gave his whole heart to this project. And 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:36.120 by the time that we could watch it for the 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:39.600 first time, all the way through that roughish cut that 0:14:39.640 --> 0:14:42.960 we got together, I was like, oh, wow, like this 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.040 is this is going to be something, This is going 0:14:45.120 --> 0:14:47.160 to be something special. I mean, I thought it would, 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.240 but I know it now. And then it was another 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:51.960 couple of months until my dad got to see it, 0:14:52.040 --> 0:14:56.560 and I knew that he wouldn't be surprised because I've 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.840 always been a performer and he hadn't known me as 0:14:59.880 --> 0:15:03.760 a filmmaker. But in the end, he wasn't surprised, but 0:15:04.000 --> 0:15:07.360 he definitely he didn't know what to expect. I didn't 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.360 know what his reaction would be. And what I was 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:13.400 surprised about was how well he took the movie, because 0:15:13.400 --> 0:15:17.160 it's a lot about the fractured relationship. You know, it's 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:22.160 very it's complex, and there were so many call outs 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.040 in the film that were directly for him, and my 0:15:26.120 --> 0:15:28.680 mom knew everything along the way, so you know, it 0:15:28.720 --> 0:15:32.160 wasn't as much of a reveal. But I think it's 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:35.240 been a pleasant surprise, and it's also brought my family 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:38.560 closer together, which is, you know, it was the hope 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:40.720 when I made it, and so the fact that it 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.520 ended up happening that way is just kind of like, wow, Okay, 0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:47.600 you can do something like out of you know, love 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:53.800 and pain and grandiosity, you know, like I wanted to 0:15:53.880 --> 0:15:55.600 change my life, and I wanted to tell a big 0:15:55.640 --> 0:15:57.840 story and I thought, Okay, let me strip it away 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:00.360 and let me get back to the basics. And what 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:05.120 is the most core relationship you have on this planet? 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.720 And it's with your parents. And when you start having 0:16:08.840 --> 0:16:12.760 mental health issues and start realizing patterns in your family 0:16:12.880 --> 0:16:17.800 and behaviors, and then like your lived experience is dependent 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:20.160 on like the experience that they had with you. It's 0:16:20.200 --> 0:16:24.920 it's very it's it's wild when when you just strip 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.120 it all away and like talk straight to your family, 0:16:28.160 --> 0:16:31.160 your your parents. So I don't think there was any 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.080 surprises on their end, but for me, I was surprised 0:16:35.080 --> 0:16:37.360 at how well received it was. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:41.040 Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I write something on social 0:16:41.080 --> 0:16:46.520 media about that. Dioh yes to die about the spice 0:16:46.560 --> 0:16:54.640 between being gifted and being skilled. Like, so you know, 0:16:54.720 --> 0:16:57.600 you have you borne with certain abilities or gifts or talent, 0:16:57.760 --> 0:17:00.880 innate talent, right, but you didn't earn it, you didn't 0:17:00.920 --> 0:17:03.320 create it, you didn't work for it. You just have it. 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:07.280 But then there's what you do with that, you know. 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:09.840 So I was like, I don't have many gifts at all, 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.919 but I was probably of all the things, you know, 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.520 I was probably a reasonably gifted communicator even as a kid, 0:17:16.720 --> 0:17:20.480 Like I could bullshit my way in and out of everything, 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.880 you know, and talk with adults when I was ten 0:17:22.960 --> 0:17:27.560 and have adult conversations. And but then, you know, as 0:17:27.600 --> 0:17:30.400 you move into what I do now, which is corporate 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:34.280 speaking and podcasting and the odd bit of university lecturing 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:38.800 and talking to teams and athletes and all that stuff, 0:17:38.880 --> 0:17:42.760 you realize that how good you You know, like, your 0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:45.840 your talent is finite, but your skill is the one 0:17:45.880 --> 0:17:48.840 thing that you can develop so that you can become 0:17:48.880 --> 0:17:53.440 a better producer, better actor, better director, better marketer, all 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:57.080 through work and effort and paying attention to the outcomes, 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.760 like what are my results telling me what I need 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:02.560 to do more or less of? Yeah, And I think 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.760 there's that when you're born with something, you go especially 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:09.080 if that's something that talent is something that you happen 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.520 to be passionate about. Well, that's a beautiful running start. 0:18:12.640 --> 0:18:15.520 But then what it matters is what am I going 0:18:15.600 --> 0:18:17.840 to do with this? Like this thing that I have, 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:23.480 like TIFSA an athlete, box are genetically gifted. I'm not 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.159 genetically gifted. And then you go, like I've said to 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:30.399 many times, well you know, so you've got an athletic body, 0:18:30.440 --> 0:18:33.640 You've got amazing genetics, and now what matters is what 0:18:33.680 --> 0:18:35.720 we do with that, you know, skill and training and 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:41.040 adaptation and kind of getting uncomfortable. And I feel like 0:18:41.160 --> 0:18:44.439 that that for many people as a limiting factor where 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:48.760 things come really easily when they're young. You know, it 0:18:48.880 --> 0:18:51.240 might be with sport, might be with academia, it might 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:55.760 be with I don't know, solving problems. But then sometimes 0:18:55.800 --> 0:18:58.000 they don't keep building on that as they get older. 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:03.680 Yeah. I remember as a kid, I had this strong 0:19:03.840 --> 0:19:06.959 pull for TV and film, and I didn't know anything 0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:09.760 about it. I didn't know what a showrunner was. I 0:19:09.760 --> 0:19:13.480 didn't know where Hollywood was, Like, I had no concept. 0:19:13.520 --> 0:19:15.960 And I slowly gained because I was in New York 0:19:16.000 --> 0:19:18.240 with my with my parents, I mean, they weren't together, 0:19:18.280 --> 0:19:20.159 so I was kind of back and forth. So my 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:23.080 whole life consisted of, you know, going to my mom's 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:24.280 house for a couple of days out of the week, 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:25.680 going to my dad's. I was like, I was more 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:29.320 focused on, like where we were going to be, where 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:31.399 I was going to be not like what was out 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:34.000 in the world. I only knew what I knew, and 0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.080 so it's been wild to to learn more and then 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:41.200 learn what is possible and like that you can create 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:45.080 things for yourself and also like that, yeah, you can 0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:48.399 have that gift, but when it comes to being the 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:50.320 best version of yourself, you need to set yourself up 0:19:50.320 --> 0:19:53.440 for success. You know, you need to position yourself to 0:19:54.119 --> 0:19:59.639 even have this thing that you're creating, like land correctly. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.240 So I totally know what you mean. It's it's you 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:06.800 can see it. I think pretty clearly with people like that, 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.760 just how easy certain things are for certain people, or 0:20:11.080 --> 0:20:14.639 how how some people like you know, they need to 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.600 work a little harder and do a little more. Like 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:22.360 you know, in school, when you're there's theater school, where 0:20:22.359 --> 0:20:25.520 there's like a music school, and like somebody's like better 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:27.320 than you. There's always like somebody who's better than you. 0:20:27.400 --> 0:20:32.760 So like there's a balance between trusting and then also 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.119 just sharpening and constantly absorbing from the universe to see 0:20:38.520 --> 0:20:40.639 what you can take from the world and what you 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:44.359 can learn so that you can implement those things going forward. 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:48.439 I might be being very presumptuous when I'm thinking you 0:20:48.520 --> 0:20:50.439 probably don't listen to a lot of Joe Rogan. 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:52.000 I don't. 0:20:53.240 --> 0:20:58.280 Good assumption hops. I have a recommendation for you, which 0:20:58.320 --> 0:21:01.399 I think you might even say an email and go thanks, 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.960 that was good. So Ben Athleck and Matt Damon are 0:21:04.960 --> 0:21:08.000 talking with him and it's a nearly three hour just 0:21:08.240 --> 0:21:14.520 rambling conversation about their creative process production, you know, creating 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:18.040 a team, creating, you know, working with different people, rewarding 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.320 the people that they work with, and it's just a 0:21:21.480 --> 0:21:24.879 very very you know, like they're smoking, they're drinking booze, 0:21:24.880 --> 0:21:31.240 they're hanging out, and it's just yeah, it's a really 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:34.080 good listen and like, I'm never going to make a film. 0:21:34.119 --> 0:21:36.000 I'm not a filmmaker. I'm never going to make but 0:21:36.200 --> 0:21:40.800 just listening to how they solve problems in that space, create, 0:21:41.080 --> 0:21:45.359 build connection, rapport, trust, respect, do their job. Yeah, I 0:21:45.359 --> 0:21:47.040 would have a listen to that if I was you. 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.199 It's probably if you just go into the JR. Jo 0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:53.680 Rogan experience. I think it's the most recent one or 0:21:53.720 --> 0:21:56.280 the last one. But yeah, you're. 0:21:56.160 --> 0:21:59.400 Like, well, there are some of the ogs who wrote 0:21:59.400 --> 0:22:03.560 their own thing, wrote parts for themselves and pushed things 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:08.320 together and packaged films together to create the life they 0:22:08.359 --> 0:22:10.399 have and now, I mean, they're at the top of 0:22:10.440 --> 0:22:14.800 their game. It's really a beautiful thing to watch people 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:19.240 who have dreams execute them to the point of creating 0:22:20.000 --> 0:22:24.600 a life beyond the work too. I mean, it's pretty magical. 0:22:25.119 --> 0:22:26.880 And I feel that way about the project that I've 0:22:26.880 --> 0:22:28.920 been working on. I've had so many people reach out 0:22:28.960 --> 0:22:32.240 to me who have BPD or who are family members 0:22:32.280 --> 0:22:35.960 of people who have VPD, who've lost people who've died 0:22:35.960 --> 0:22:40.880 by suicide because of their worderland personality disorder, and it's 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:46.159 been that's how I know that this feels greater than me, 0:22:46.359 --> 0:22:49.080 you know, like it feels. And the reason why I 0:22:49.119 --> 0:22:52.400 wanted to create a show specifically about it was because, 0:22:53.320 --> 0:22:56.040 I mean, I know that I started feeling better when 0:22:56.080 --> 0:22:58.879 I had more psycho education about BPD. And there's so 0:22:58.880 --> 0:23:00.960 many people who just don't have the resources or the 0:23:01.080 --> 0:23:03.120