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Speaker 1: I'll get eight champions. I hope you're bloody terrific. It's

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Speaker 1: the project that's you. It's a Thursday. It's all going

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Speaker 1: on over here at Camp Harps and Camp Tip will

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Speaker 1: introduce our guests in a moment. TI if I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to tell you this because I didn't want you

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Speaker 1: to cry af air, but I have some news. So

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Speaker 1: tell everyone what time it is as we're recording.

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Speaker 2: It's ten am.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's ten oh four five. Let's be honest to

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Speaker 1: go on, go on. The Jumbo Jumbo's going into hospital

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Speaker 1: at twelve fun Jumbo's going in for new ears.

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Speaker 2: I think I spent three and a half seconds and

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Speaker 2: thinking you were getting a dog today, And you have

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Speaker 2: no idea the excitement that brewed inside my body that

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Speaker 2: now it will not dissipate.

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Speaker 1: And I'm conferable the dogs. What about what about my hospital?

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Speaker 2: I tell you what's very brave, and I'm so proud

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Speaker 2: that you're fixing your ears.

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Speaker 1: Well, I would be much happier getting a fucking Golden

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Speaker 1: Retriever puppy, but this is what today requires. So Kelsey, Hi, Hello,

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Speaker 1: how are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm good? Also, I would be much happier if I

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Speaker 3: was getting a Golden Retriever puppy as well. I had

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Speaker 3: one a long time ago.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, well I'm getting a new puppy this year,

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Speaker 1: so Tiff is probably, i would say, on a par

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Speaker 1: with me in terms of excitement, And I somehow think

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Speaker 1: she thinks that it's kind of somehow going to be

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Speaker 1: kind of her puppy, which I feel like, I'll come

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Speaker 1: home from something and the dog will be gone, and

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Speaker 1: there'll be a small note from Tiff going, no need

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Speaker 1: to worry, all good, yeah, no good, Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: I'll have to ring the cops and go, there's a

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Speaker 1: fucking dog napping that's gone on, and I'll have to

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Speaker 1: send them a photo of her. It's going to be

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Speaker 1: a whole thing. It's going to be messy anyway. But

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, yeah, fuck my is, let's get Let's get

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Speaker 1: a puppy. That's a much better idea. How long go

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Speaker 1: did you have a Golden Er Treva Kelsey?

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Speaker 3: Oh? Like, I adopted my dad's friends Golden Retrievers when

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Speaker 3: I was like in middle school, when we moved across

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Speaker 3: the country and when we moved into because we stayed

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Speaker 3: with them for a while when we moved into our place.

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Speaker 3: We got she was older, she wasn't a puppy, but

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Speaker 3: she her name was Angie. She was blind. So this

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Speaker 3: was back in the mid twenty tens and we had

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Speaker 3: it for like four years, and we didn't know she

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Speaker 3: was blind when we got her, but shortly after we

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Speaker 3: realized she couldn't see because she was bumping into the walls.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, Jiff does that too. She bounced into things,

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Speaker 1: but only when she's hungry because she can't focus on shit.

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Speaker 1: So you give her a copkake or a cookie and

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Speaker 1: her set and Nev comes back on lawn. So it's

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Speaker 1: all right. Well, so Kelsey, tell my uh listeners, who

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Speaker 1: you are? What do you do? Like, what what's the uh,

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Speaker 1: what's the deal with you?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, my name is Kelsey Packwood and I am

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Speaker 3: a filmmaker, and I guess in the umbrella of filmmaking,

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Speaker 3: I would say I'm a director, a writer, producer, and

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Speaker 3: an actor and I've been focusing on telling a story

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Speaker 3: about mental health and borderline personality disorder. So yeah, if

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Speaker 3: you had asked me a year and a half ago,

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Speaker 3: I couldn't have told you I was a director. So

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Speaker 3: that's kind of been a newer hat that I'm wearing,

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Speaker 3: but it's been it's been a comfortable hat. It felt

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Speaker 3: like I I definitely fell into that pretty easily.

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Speaker 1: So that's the Uh, what's the being the biggest learning curve?

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Speaker 1: You producing, directing, writing, or acting? That's question one and

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Speaker 1: question two? Where are you in your natural Habitat the

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Speaker 1: most I.

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Speaker 3: Would have told you it was acting, but I think

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Speaker 3: I think producing because you can just like make a

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Speaker 3: list of things and make them happen. And I don't

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Speaker 3: know how, but I was able to make a lot

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Speaker 3: of things happen to make my pilot. But also what's

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Speaker 3: been the most challenging is the marketing aspects, like the

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Speaker 3: you know, social media strategy. I feel like I'm learning

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Speaker 3: a lot, but it's it's so cool to take something

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Speaker 3: that you created out of nothing and then like share

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Speaker 3: it with the world, but it's it's hard to get

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Speaker 3: things out there sometimes undersent.

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Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, even podcasting obviously different thing,

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Speaker 1: different level, but film producing, writing, obviously, acting, directing, and

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Speaker 1: even marketing it's like you might have this great thing,

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Speaker 1: but no one knows about it. Well, good good luck

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Speaker 1: making a few bucks, right so, and good luck having

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Speaker 1: a commercial. Oh it's amazing. No one's seen it, by

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Speaker 1: the way, but it's amazing. It's like I'm the most

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Speaker 1: brilliant artist in the world. Nobody's seen any of my work,

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Speaker 1: and nobody's bored a painting. But I'm super gifted, which

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Speaker 1: is nice. But yes, so I feel like all of

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Speaker 1: that stuff is constance problem solving. Like I did three

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Speaker 1: podcasts before this that didn't work, Like that didn't work commercially, right,

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Speaker 1: they were okay, but you're like, okay, first one, what

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Speaker 1: do we learn? What went okay? What went shit? What

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Speaker 1: do I need to do more of less of? What

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Speaker 1: didn't I understand? What do I understand now? How do

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Speaker 1: I need to be different? What did the audience want?

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Speaker 1: What's going to resonate? How do I share this idea

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Speaker 1: in a way that's not complicated but still explaining the

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Speaker 1: guts of the idea while being relevant for the average person.

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Speaker 1: And then version two, and then version three, and then finally,

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Speaker 1: you know, the fourth installment or the fourth Incarnation, which

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Speaker 1: you're currently sitting on the new project. Even that took

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Speaker 1: about six hundred episodes before it was like for me

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Speaker 1: worth doing financially. You know, we're over two thousand now,

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Speaker 1: But I literally spent three or four years just trying

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Speaker 1: to figure out this this podcast algorithm, Like how do

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Speaker 1: I Because I know the shit that I know is

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Speaker 1: relevant to people, and I know I'm a little bit

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Speaker 1: amusing and a little bit interesting at times sometimes a

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Speaker 1: fucking idiot also, but how do I how do I

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Speaker 1: operationalize what I have in a way that people are

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Speaker 1: going to want to come back and want to you know,

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Speaker 1: So for you, how are people going to Are people

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Speaker 1: going to want to come to your next show or

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Speaker 1: your next doco or your next whatever it is. So

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Speaker 1: I feel like it's high level problem solving on an

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Speaker 1: ongoing basis.

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Speaker 3: Totally, and you can't get too comfortable because you can

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Speaker 3: plateau a little bit and everything that you were saying.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I went through all those phases of like, Okay,

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Speaker 3: I have an idea. I know that this is a

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Speaker 3: large problem that if we can get enough attention and

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Speaker 3: enough heads together to do enough research and really educate

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Speaker 3: the public, then I think that this is a topic

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Speaker 3: that won't be so stigmatized, won't be so terrifying for

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Speaker 3: people to talk about. So it's just like, how can

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Speaker 3: I then translate that into a twenty eight minute episode

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Speaker 3: of television that engages my audience, has them relate to me,

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Speaker 3: and then makes a difference, makes an impact, and then

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Speaker 3: has that person spread the word and say, hey, I

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Speaker 3: saw this really amazing thing. And what I've noticed is

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Speaker 3: I've had a lot of support in the BPD community specifically,

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Speaker 3: because if you know BBD, if you know somebody who's BBD,

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Speaker 3: you know how challenging it is. You know how painful

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Speaker 3: it can be, not just for the person who's suffering

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Speaker 3: with BBD, but the people around them. And so I've

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Speaker 3: noticed that you can have like such a powerful, amazing

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Speaker 3: project and like, unless people really start spreading the word

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Speaker 3: for you, it's very difficult to get anywhere. But then

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Speaker 3: at the same time, it's like it doesn't happen overnight.

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Speaker 3: So four years sounds great. I came up with my

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Speaker 3: idea four years ago. It took me three out of

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Speaker 3: those four years to then film it, and then a

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Speaker 3: year of getting it into the right hands to be seen.

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Speaker 3: So it's anything worthwhile. It takes a lot of time

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Speaker 3: and care, tender look.

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Speaker 1: And for every one of you, there's another ten thousand

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Speaker 1: of you, fifty hundred thousand of you with kind of

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Speaker 1: the same intention or similar or similar drive or similar aspirations.

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Speaker 1: You know, in the podcasting world. I think it's like

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Speaker 1: the average podcast loves last seven episodes and almost one

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Speaker 1: hundred percent, but not like ninety nine point five percent

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Speaker 1: of or more podcasts make zero dollars like zero, you know,

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Speaker 1: they don't have sponsors. They don't actually, which is fine.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if all you want to do is have

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Speaker 1: a podcast and talk to cool people and hang out,

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Speaker 1: then you're succeeding if that's your goal. But yeah, to

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Speaker 1: actually take your idea and then turn that into a

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Speaker 1: creative success, a financial success, a personal success, and something

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Speaker 1: that's potentially doing some good in the world where this

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Speaker 1: information and inspiration and education is needed. That's that's not

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Speaker 1: a quick or easy process, right.

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Speaker 3: Right, you know, and it goes with it. I was

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Speaker 3: thinking about this with all kinds of art or major ideas.

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Speaker 3: Like a song, it couldn't exist if this person didn't

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Speaker 3: write it first. They make the money after. But yeah,

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Speaker 3: you don't even think about that. When they're like the

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Speaker 3: biggest star in the world. You're like, oh, they have millions, millions.

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Speaker 3: Like when you really strip it back, it's like, well,

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Speaker 3: initially they had to come up with the song first.

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Speaker 3: They came out of them. And that's what I think

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Speaker 3: also happened with me, Like these words that I wrote,

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Speaker 3: they came out of me, almost without me even thinking.

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Speaker 3: It just was in me and it just happened. So

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Speaker 3: there is some spiritual element to it too. I think

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Speaker 3: when you're passing on knowledge or showkissing art at a high.

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Speaker 1: Level, I agree tif to you. You might not. I don't,

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Speaker 1: I should, but I'm old, you're young. The dude that

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Speaker 1: we had on who wrote a book like twenty years ago,

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Speaker 1: a really good book, but it didn't sell like it

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Speaker 1: didn't you know, it did Okay, he probably sold a

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Speaker 1: few thousand copies, but it didn't catch fire. And then

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Speaker 1: about a year ago, a major league baseball player was sitting,

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Speaker 1: you know, like he was in the game, as in

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Speaker 1: he was playing, but he was sitting in the dugout

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Speaker 1: waiting for his turn to bat or whatever, and he

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Speaker 1: was reading this guy's book, right, And so the TV

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Speaker 1: camera zoomed in on this book and they're like, what

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Speaker 1: is he reading? And then the name of the book

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Speaker 1: came up, and then the producers research it in real

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Speaker 1: time and they're like, oh, this guy wrote this book,

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Speaker 1: it's about that, And then they kept cutting back to

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Speaker 1: this guy who's literally in the middle of a game

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Speaker 1: obviously not his turn at bat or whatever, but and

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Speaker 1: he was yes, And so that dude Kelsey went from

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Speaker 1: oblivion to doing all the national talk shows in a week.

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Speaker 1: He got booked out for speaking, like his book became famous,

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Speaker 1: and he became famous. I should remember anyway, I interviewed

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Speaker 1: him really good, dude. I feel bad, but I've interviewed

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Speaker 1: two thousand people, so I don't feel that bad.

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Speaker 3: But you know, it's like a lot of pieces and

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Speaker 3: names to remember. Yeah, he'll be calling incredible story. I mean,

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Speaker 3: that's that's that's totally the magic of life. And yes,

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Speaker 3: you can't even create that energy that just that just happened.

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Speaker 3: That's that's incredible. I love that.

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Speaker 1: I love this. I'm just going to if you figure

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Speaker 1: that out, let me know, just interrupt me. You don't

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Speaker 1: need to. By the way, Kelsey is the writer and

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Speaker 1: creator of Borderline, a half hour traumity. I've never heard that,

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Speaker 1: but I understand that's. I love that word. That's clever,

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Speaker 1: a half hour traumany scripted series based on her lived

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Speaker 1: experience with Borderline Personality is sort of BPD. Kelsey's directional

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Speaker 1: debut of Borderline premiere at Sony Picture January sixteen, twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty five. So pretty much this time last year. Well

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Speaker 1: done you. I mean, I don't know, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to ask you how old you are, but you look

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Speaker 1: fucking twelve. So well done. I mean it's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I look like I could be a great great granddad.

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Speaker 1: But that's that's amazing. Did you How did your friends

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Speaker 1: and family respond to you know, I'm sure you're very

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Speaker 1: talented and always have been. But did they go, of

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Speaker 1: course you did that, that's what you do, of course,

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Speaker 1: or did they go, how the fuck did you pull

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Speaker 1: that off?

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Speaker 3: You know, that's so funny. I think that, Like I

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Speaker 3: think my immediate family isn't totally surprised. But the story

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Speaker 3: is about my dad and I. You know, when I

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Speaker 3: get diagnosed with VPD, there's a rift in our relationship,

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Speaker 3: and so you know, he wasn't really around for those

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Speaker 3: years where I was creating the show and rewriting the scripts,

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Speaker 3: and so when it came time to make the movie

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Speaker 3: and get it all done, and by the time my

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Speaker 3: dad had seen it, he had no idea what to expect.

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Speaker 3: He had no idea what quality to expect. I mean,

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Speaker 3: first time making my own film didn't mean that I

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Speaker 3: hadn't experienced many film sets. So it all somehow seamlessly

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Speaker 3: came together down to, like the fundraising elements of I

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Speaker 3: had exactly what I needed when I shot the pilot,

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Speaker 3: you know, and I didn't have what I needed for

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Speaker 3: post production, so I raised that later. But when I

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Speaker 3: did my little call out on my Instagram asking, hey, like,

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Speaker 3: I have these roles, these positions to fill on the crew,

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Speaker 3: and you know, don't have a lot of money to pay,

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Speaker 3: but maybe I will when I raise it. Does anybody

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Speaker 3: want to work on this thing? Two day shoot like

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Speaker 3: in April of this year, And so yeah, it just

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Speaker 3: kind of just worked. And so I don't think I

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Speaker 3: even realized how quick it all happened and how well

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Speaker 3: it went until I saw it for the first time,

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Speaker 3: Like until I was with my editor Chris Rosenbloom, who

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Speaker 3: he was such a life saver and such a talented

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Speaker 3: guy who gave his whole heart to this project. And

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Speaker 3: by the time that we could watch it for the

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Speaker 3: first time, all the way through that roughish cut that

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Speaker 3: we got together, I was like, oh, wow, like this

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Speaker 3: is this is going to be something, This is going

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Speaker 3: to be something special. I mean, I thought it would,

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Speaker 3: but I know it now. And then it was another

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Speaker 3: couple of months until my dad got to see it,

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Speaker 3: and I knew that he wouldn't be surprised because I've

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Speaker 3: always been a performer and he hadn't known me as

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Speaker 3: a filmmaker. But in the end, he wasn't surprised, but

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Speaker 3: he definitely he didn't know what to expect. I didn't

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Speaker 3: know what his reaction would be. And what I was

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Speaker 3: surprised about was how well he took the movie, because

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Speaker 3: it's a lot about the fractured relationship. You know, it's

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Speaker 3: very it's complex, and there were so many call outs

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Speaker 3: in the film that were directly for him, and my

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Speaker 3: mom knew everything along the way, so you know, it

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Speaker 3: wasn't as much of a reveal. But I think it's

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Speaker 3: been a pleasant surprise, and it's also brought my family

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Speaker 3: closer together, which is, you know, it was the hope

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Speaker 3: when I made it, and so the fact that it

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Speaker 3: ended up happening that way is just kind of like, wow, Okay,

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Speaker 3: you can do something like out of you know, love

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Speaker 3: and pain and grandiosity, you know, like I wanted to

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Speaker 3: change my life, and I wanted to tell a big

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Speaker 3: story and I thought, Okay, let me strip it away

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Speaker 3: and let me get back to the basics. And what

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Speaker 3: is the most core relationship you have on this planet?

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Speaker 3: And it's with your parents. And when you start having

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Speaker 3: mental health issues and start realizing patterns in your family

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Speaker 3: and behaviors, and then like your lived experience is dependent

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Speaker 3: on like the experience that they had with you. It's

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Speaker 3: it's very it's it's wild when when you just strip

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Speaker 3: it all away and like talk straight to your family,

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Speaker 3: your your parents. So I don't think there was any

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Speaker 3: surprises on their end, but for me, I was surprised

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Speaker 3: at how well received it was.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I feel like I write something on social

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Speaker 1: media about that. Dioh yes to die about the spice

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Speaker 1: between being gifted and being skilled. Like, so you know,

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Speaker 1: you have you borne with certain abilities or gifts or talent,

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Speaker 1: innate talent, right, but you didn't earn it, you didn't

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Speaker 1: create it, you didn't work for it. You just have it.

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Speaker 1: But then there's what you do with that, you know.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, I don't have many gifts at all,

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Speaker 1: but I was probably of all the things, you know,

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Speaker 1: I was probably a reasonably gifted communicator even as a kid,

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Speaker 1: Like I could bullshit my way in and out of everything,

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Speaker 1: you know, and talk with adults when I was ten

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Speaker 1: and have adult conversations. And but then, you know, as

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Speaker 1: you move into what I do now, which is corporate

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Speaker 1: speaking and podcasting and the odd bit of university lecturing

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Speaker 1: and talking to teams and athletes and all that stuff,

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Speaker 1: you realize that how good you You know, like, your

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Speaker 1: your talent is finite, but your skill is the one

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Speaker 1: thing that you can develop so that you can become

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Speaker 1: a better producer, better actor, better director, better marketer, all

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Speaker 1: through work and effort and paying attention to the outcomes,

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Speaker 1: like what are my results telling me what I need

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Speaker 1: to do more or less of? Yeah, And I think

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Speaker 1: there's that when you're born with something, you go especially

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Speaker 1: if that's something that talent is something that you happen

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Speaker 1: to be passionate about. Well, that's a beautiful running start.

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Speaker 1: But then what it matters is what am I going

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Speaker 1: to do with this? Like this thing that I have,

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Speaker 1: like TIFSA an athlete, box are genetically gifted. I'm not

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Speaker 1: genetically gifted. And then you go, like I've said to

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Speaker 1: many times, well you know, so you've got an athletic body,

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Speaker 1: You've got amazing genetics, and now what matters is what

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Speaker 1: we do with that, you know, skill and training and

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Speaker 1: adaptation and kind of getting uncomfortable. And I feel like

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Speaker 1: that that for many people as a limiting factor where

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Speaker 1: things come really easily when they're young. You know, it

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Speaker 1: might be with sport, might be with academia, it might

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Speaker 1: be with I don't know, solving problems. But then sometimes

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Speaker 1: they don't keep building on that as they get older.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I remember as a kid, I had this strong

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Speaker 3: pull for TV and film, and I didn't know anything

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Speaker 3: about it. I didn't know what a showrunner was. I

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Speaker 3: didn't know where Hollywood was, Like, I had no concept.

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Speaker 3: And I slowly gained because I was in New York

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Speaker 3: with my with my parents, I mean, they weren't together,

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Speaker 3: so I was kind of back and forth. So my

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Speaker 3: whole life consisted of, you know, going to my mom's

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Speaker 3: house for a couple of days out of the week,

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Speaker 3: going to my dad's. I was like, I was more

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Speaker 3: focused on, like where we were going to be, where

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Speaker 3: I was going to be not like what was out

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Speaker 3: in the world. I only knew what I knew, and

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Speaker 3: so it's been wild to to learn more and then

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Speaker 3: learn what is possible and like that you can create

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Speaker 3: things for yourself and also like that, yeah, you can

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Speaker 3: have that gift, but when it comes to being the

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Speaker 3: best version of yourself, you need to set yourself up

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Speaker 3: for success. You know, you need to position yourself to

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Speaker 3: even have this thing that you're creating, like land correctly.

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Speaker 3: So I totally know what you mean. It's it's you

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Speaker 3: can see it. I think pretty clearly with people like that,

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Speaker 3: just how easy certain things are for certain people, or

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Speaker 3: how how some people like you know, they need to

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Speaker 3: work a little harder and do a little more. Like

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Speaker 3: you know, in school, when you're there's theater school, where

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Speaker 3: there's like a music school, and like somebody's like better

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Speaker 3: than you. There's always like somebody who's better than you.

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Speaker 3: So like there's a balance between trusting and then also

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Speaker 3: just sharpening and constantly absorbing from the universe to see

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Speaker 3: what you can take from the world and what you

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Speaker 3: can learn so that you can implement those things going forward.

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Speaker 1: I might be being very presumptuous when I'm thinking you

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Speaker 1: probably don't listen to a lot of Joe Rogan.

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Speaker 3: I don't.

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Speaker 1: Good assumption hops. I have a recommendation for you, which

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Speaker 1: I think you might even say an email and go thanks,

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Speaker 1: that was good. So Ben Athleck and Matt Damon are

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Speaker 1: talking with him and it's a nearly three hour just

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Speaker 1: rambling conversation about their creative process production, you know, creating

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Speaker 1: a team, creating, you know, working with different people, rewarding

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Speaker 1: the people that they work with, and it's just a

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Speaker 1: very very you know, like they're smoking, they're drinking booze,

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Speaker 1: they're hanging out, and it's just yeah, it's a really

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Speaker 1: good listen and like, I'm never going to make a film.

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Speaker 1: I'm not a filmmaker. I'm never going to make but

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Speaker 1: just listening to how they solve problems in that space, create,

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Speaker 1: build connection, rapport, trust, respect, do their job. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: would have a listen to that if I was you.

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Speaker 1: It's probably if you just go into the JR. Jo

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Speaker 1: Rogan experience. I think it's the most recent one or

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Speaker 1: the last one. But yeah, you're.

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Speaker 3: Like, well, there are some of the ogs who wrote

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Speaker 3: their own thing, wrote parts for themselves and pushed things

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Speaker 3: together and packaged films together to create the life they

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Speaker 3: have and now, I mean, they're at the top of

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Speaker 3: their game. It's really a beautiful thing to watch people

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Speaker 3: who have dreams execute them to the point of creating

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Speaker 3: a life beyond the work too. I mean, it's pretty magical.

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Speaker 3: And I feel that way about the project that I've

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Speaker 3: been working on. I've had so many people reach out

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Speaker 3: to me who have BPD or who are family members

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Speaker 3: of people who have VPD, who've lost people who've died

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Speaker 3: by suicide because of their worderland personality disorder, and it's

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Speaker 3: been that's how I know that this feels greater than me,

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Speaker 3: you know, like it feels. And the reason why I

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Speaker 3: wanted to create a show specifically about it was because,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I know that I started feeling better when

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Speaker 3: I had more psycho education about BPD. And there's so

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Speaker 3: many people who just don't have the resources or the

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Speaker 3: energy to go out and get the help that they need.

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Speaker 3: There's just so many people who just can't They can't

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Speaker 3: find comfort, they can't find a calmness in the storm.

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Speaker 3: And I know that the people who end up getting

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Speaker 3: hospitalized psychiatric hospitalization, I mean, fifty percent of them exhibit

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Speaker 3: traits of orderline personality disorder. So if it's such a

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Speaker 3: gigantic number of people who are constantly in the fire

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Speaker 3: in these hospitals, but yet like there's no clear answer

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Speaker 3: except for maybe hospitalize them, maybe put them on some

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Speaker 3: drugs for a couple of weeks, a couple of months,

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Speaker 3: a couple of years, and see how they do. Versus like, Okay, well,

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Speaker 3: how do we how do we get to the core

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Speaker 3: of the problem, which is the nine symptoms, the chronic

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Speaker 3: feelings of emptiness and loneliness and helplessness, you know, the

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Speaker 3: fear of abandonment to the point of frantic efforts to

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Speaker 3: avoid it, and the suicidality. It's such a major problem

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Speaker 3: that I think is only getting worse. And this project,

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Speaker 3: I mean, I hoped that when I made this project

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Speaker 3: and it started with a pitch deck, you know, it

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Speaker 3: always starts nice, like little pitch deck to say like, hey,

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Speaker 3: here's the concept. And so I said, if I can

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Speaker 3: just like if I was sending it out to people

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Speaker 3: to read, friends, family, random people, executives like directors, I

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Speaker 3: was just really open with spreading that word. When I

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Speaker 3: was in Los Angeles and I remember this one girl

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Speaker 3: who's friends with a friend of mine, and I was

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Speaker 3: telling her about it, and then a couple months later,

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Speaker 3: my friends said, oh, yeah, she got diagnosed with BPD

429
00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 3: after reading your pitch deck. So that was like the

430
00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:52,119
Speaker 3: first example of wow, Wow, if I could just change

431
00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 3: someone person's life and give them some sort of education.

432
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,240
Speaker 3: What they do is they read what I'm saying about

433
00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 3: the BBD and now the pilot, and now that it's available,

434
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:03,399
Speaker 3: now you can see what I'm saying about BPD, and

435
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:06,600
Speaker 3: it can go, hey, maybe that's that's a little bit

436
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 3: like me. And instead of holding that fear and shame

437
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:15,679
Speaker 3: of oh reading up on BPD on the internet and Google,

438
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 3: you can actually just like see a version of it

439
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 3: where we humanize it. And and you know, I was

440
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 3: I was happy with just one with one person telling

441
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,000
Speaker 3: me that they got diagnosed or that it helps them.

442
00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 3: But what I've noticed is that there's such just a

443
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:37,000
Speaker 3: continual support of people who have reached out saying I

444
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 3: have this, my sister has this, my mom is undiagnosed,

445
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:47,600
Speaker 3: I lost my daughter to this, and that that hasn't stopped.

446
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 3: So it's pretty amazing to see how like you can

447
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,200
Speaker 3: tell when something is supposed to exist, and the goal

448
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:00,280
Speaker 3: is to change the way that the world view use

449
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 3: mental illness because I don't think we've cracked the personality

450
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,520
Speaker 3: disorder world. You know, there's a lot of them. There's

451
00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:09,720
Speaker 3: cluster A, Cluster B, Cluster C, and out of all

452
00:26:09,760 --> 00:26:13,120
Speaker 3: of them, bpds, I think I think it's like the

453
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:18,879
Speaker 3: only one that like that I know a lot about.

454
00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 3: So it's like if I if I don't even know

455
00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,160
Speaker 3: about like all of these other ones. I know there's

456
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 3: four personality disorders in cluster B, and if I don't

457
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,640
Speaker 3: even know about the other one, like we haven't even

458
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,879
Speaker 3: begun to describe the surface. So there's a lot of

459
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,600
Speaker 3: work that needs to be done. But there's a lot

460
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,720
Speaker 3: of people out there on this planet who are trying

461
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,880
Speaker 3: to do that work. And I actually think there's more

462
00:26:38,920 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 3: people with personality disorders walking around them we think.

463
00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: You know, probably it's funny because like understanding the human

464
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: brian and the human mind, and more broadly just understanding

465
00:26:53,680 --> 00:27:01,520
Speaker 1: humans throat, it's it's pretty fucking complicated, and it's pretty complex,

466
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: you know. It's like with my PhD. My PhD is

467
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:12,399
Speaker 1: on psychology, but it's metapception, which is your ability to

468
00:27:12,520 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: understand how other people perceive and process you. Right, So,

469
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,480
Speaker 1: in other words, what's the Kelsey experience like for Kraig

470
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: and Tiff in this moment and your ability to have

471
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,320
Speaker 1: some insight into that. It's kind of like a development

472
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 1: of theory of mind. But when people go, oh, so

473
00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 1: you you know, doctor of psychology, and I go, ah, well,

474
00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 1: like technically yes, but then depending on where I'm at.

475
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 1: If I'm at a cafe, I'll pick up the sugar

476
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: and I'll go look into this jar of sugar. How

477
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: many grains of sugar do you reckon herre in there?

478
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: They go, fuck, five, ten thousand, I go, yeah, so

479
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 1: one of those grains of sugar is what I've spent

480
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:59,200
Speaker 1: six years studying. Right, It's like to study a component

481
00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,480
Speaker 1: of human behavior, and even within the context of meta

482
00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 1: perception and meta accuracy, there's so much more. And I

483
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: just think that you know, like we it's almost a misnomer.

484
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: I think sometimes doing like when you come out you

485
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: graduate and you have you know, you're a doctor in

486
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: psychology in effect, but you really don't know most of

487
00:28:22,840 --> 00:28:25,560
Speaker 1: what there is to know at all, Like you might

488
00:28:25,600 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: have a bit of an insight, but it's not really like, well,

489
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:37,160
Speaker 1: in this very very small sliver of awareness, consciousness, social intelligence,

490
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:41,760
Speaker 1: self awareness, in this very small space that is still

491
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: broadly relevant, but it's still a small area of research

492
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: relative to the totality of it. Yeah, I know about that,

493
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: but all the other stuff, you know, do you ever

494
00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: find that that people assume because you have a pretty

495
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 1: good understanding of mental health or human behavior of psychology,

496
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,840
Speaker 1: that people assume you'll know about that other thing because

497
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: that also falls onto the umbrella.

498
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 3: Right right, And then it's like what do what does

499
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 3: anyone know? You know? And also so many professionals who

500
00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,320
Speaker 3: it's easy to say things and then not see them

501
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,960
Speaker 3: in your own life. So it's kind of hilarious how

502
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 3: we can be very clear on things when we look

503
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 3: at other people's experiences, or like advice we would give

504
00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,600
Speaker 3: a friend, but if we had to take that own advice,

505
00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:31,400
Speaker 3: it'd be harder for us to even accept it. So

506
00:29:31,440 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 3: it's yeah, the research on things and the knowledge on things,

507
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 3: but then also just implementing those practices in your everyday

508
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,720
Speaker 3: life is it's fascinating. It's so funny how complex we are.

509
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 3: And that's a part of the human experience. And I

510
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 3: keep saying, you know, I wouldn't want to have been

511
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 3: less deep and less intense in my life, like I

512
00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:54,400
Speaker 3: feel like I've lived my life to the fullest because

513
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,720
Speaker 3: I feel deeply. So it's a conundrum. But at the

514
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 3: same time, I'm happy for all this knowledge. I know

515
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 3: I don't know everything. I know that there's so many

516
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 3: different ways that we can perceive all this information, and

517
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 3: that we haven't even begun to understand the mind. I mean,

518
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 3: the brain is so fascinating, and the fact that we

519
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 3: can study it in any capacity is the fact that

520
00:30:17,760 --> 00:30:20,080
Speaker 3: there's any sort of research down it is a miracle.

521
00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 3: I always think too that the fact that we can

522
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 3: see and hear and taste and everything is such a coincidence.

523
00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: I mean, yes, we had a British we had a

524
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: British neuroscientist on the other day and we're talking about

525
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of stuff, and I said, all there is

526
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 1: to know about the brain, like, you know, if what

527
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: there is to know is a hundred of what's possible,

528
00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,640
Speaker 1: that's there's nothing else anyone could know. If that's one

529
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:53,320
Speaker 1: hundred percent, what do we currently know? And he goes

530
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 1: less than one, less than one, he goes less than one.

531
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,040
Speaker 1: You guys, we think we know seventy percent, but we

532
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 1: know less than one. It's like that we don't. Yeah,

533
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: we know more than we used to. We understand more.

534
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: We've got better tools, better you know, research capacity. Sure, sure,

535
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: we've really progressed. But you know, it's just there's a

536
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:23,000
Speaker 1: galaxy of knowledge ahead of us to discover, you know.

537
00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:27,840
Speaker 3: So yeah, but I find that connection has been the

538
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 3: most strong energy that I have felt, or maybe not

539
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 3: human because even like dog connection, just like creature being connection,

540
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 3: it's just there's a mystical element to it. And I

541
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 3: remember being a kid and watching Harry Potter and Sabringa

542
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,120
Speaker 3: The Teenage Witch and having dreams of like, oh, I

543
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,520
Speaker 3: have little magical powers and I can fly, and then

544
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 3: waking up and saying, I'm so depressed. I can't do

545
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 3: any of those things. Magic isn't real. And the older

546
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,760
Speaker 3: I get, the more convinced I am that magic is real,

547
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 3: you know, with all the energy that we have on

548
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 3: this planet, because there's been too many coincidences. And you

549
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 3: can see in the pilot, I did a bit of

550
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 3: a version of that in the end because I have

551
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,040
Speaker 3: this basically this girl. It follows my story of this

552
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,760
Speaker 3: girl who doesn't want to be alone, and so the

553
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 3: whole day she's trying to avoid being alone, and she's

554
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:30,560
Speaker 3: forcing it, she's forcing connection. She's she like, wants to

555
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:32,880
Speaker 3: talk to her therapist or therapist. The session is over,

556
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:35,400
Speaker 3: she can't afford it anymore. Okay, well, that option is done.

557
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 3: She tries to call her dad. He doesn't want to

558
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 3: pick up the phone. She goes on a date, but

559
00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 3: the date can't handle the intensity of the relationship, especially

560
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 3: since it's like a new relationship. And in the end,

561
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,440
Speaker 3: she feels like she's failed, you know, like she's incapable

562
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 3: of human connection, she's incapable of sharing a moment with someone.

563
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,520
Speaker 3: And yet like there's and I won't give it away

564
00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,560
Speaker 3: for those who haven't watched it, but there's just there's

565
00:33:02,920 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: moment directly after a deep moment of suffering that's almost

566
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:12,400
Speaker 3: manifested in the exact way it's needed. And I've found

567
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,360
Speaker 3: people have asked me if that was a true incident

568
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: that occurred, and I said no, I had to script

569
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: it very specifically, just to make sure that the arc

570
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 3: of the story landed. But what I did was I

571
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 3: took elements of my life that I had experienced in

572
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 3: deep moments of suffering where I would pray or I,

573
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,040
Speaker 3: you know, would talk to a stranger, and it was

574
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:38,479
Speaker 3: shocking how talking to a stranger made me feel more

575
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 3: hurt and seene than talking to some people that I

576
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 3: on my entire life. And so I have this new

577
00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 3: view of, like, actually, there is magic if you're willing

578
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,680
Speaker 3: to listen and open your eyes and look around the corner.

579
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 3: And that's another thing that I think about the mind

580
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,160
Speaker 3: is that it's so such a powerful thing. And if

581
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 3: we don't know ninety nine percent of what else is

582
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,720
Speaker 3: out there, then isn't there more like percentage chance that

583
00:34:05,760 --> 00:34:09,359
Speaker 3: we can actually like completely create the life that we

584
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 3: want and that we can heal ourselves and we can

585
00:34:13,320 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 3: do the things we say we can't. Because if we're

586
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 3: so sure about what we know we can't do, or

587
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,879
Speaker 3: we're so sure about what we know we can, I mean,

588
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 3: I think that there's so much chance that we actually

589
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:30,640
Speaker 3: don't know the full story. So I like to add

590
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:35,920
Speaker 3: a little element of whimsy and hope to the to

591
00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 3: the hard stuff, you know, because there's a lot of

592
00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 3: people who've reached out to me as well, who maybe

593
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,879
Speaker 3: have been really scared or struggling, and nobody has time

594
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:45,439
Speaker 3: for them, you know, nobody has time to talk.

595
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 1: And yeah, the beauty.

596
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 3: In it is that, like, I might not know this

597
00:34:49,920 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 3: person for longer than a day or a couple of weeks,

598
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,640
Speaker 3: yet we've made a lasting impact. And actually I've had

599
00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:58,680
Speaker 3: people do that to me, where they've in moments where

600
00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 3: I was really really alone, They've reached out and and

601
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:07,359
Speaker 3: you know, been there like and said something at the

602
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:11,000
Speaker 3: perfect moment for me to change my perspective on the struggle.

603
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,200
Speaker 3: Because life, you know, as beautiful as it can be,

604
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:18,719
Speaker 3: it also is uh unpredictable and a little terrifying sometimes.

605
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, do you know what what fascinates me? And Tiff

606
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:27,439
Speaker 1: and I have spoken about this and a few guests,

607
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 1: But is the stuff that you know that you haven't

608
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: been taught, You haven't read it, you haven't studied it

609
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:38,560
Speaker 1: quiet you haven't a quieted And there's shit that you

610
00:35:38,680 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: know and you do not know, you do not know

611
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 1: how you know, like nobody told you, nobody taught you,

612
00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:46,799
Speaker 1: you didn't read it, but you just know shit. And

613
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:50,360
Speaker 1: then one day something happens which goes one hundred percent correct,

614
00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:52,960
Speaker 1: and you're like, I fucking knew it. I knew it.

615
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: And what I don't know, if that's instinct, didn't tuition,

616
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: luck or whatever. But I feel like, I don't know,

617
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: maybe it's a spiritual or a cellular or a physiological

618
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 1: or a cognitive carryover from generations past that my great

619
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: great great grandma knew something and now I know it

620
00:36:12,160 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 1: because somehow I got it. I don't fucking know, but

621
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: I do know. I like that. And as a scientist, I,

622
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: you know, I should be skeptical and I should go, no,

623
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: that's bullshit. There's no data for that. You don't have

624
00:36:26,719 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: data for that. I'm like, fuck the data. Sometimes it's like, yeah, sure,

625
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,279
Speaker 1: science is great, but also there's this thing, and if

626
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: we think that science is the totality, the start and

627
00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:41,400
Speaker 1: finish of what there is to understand and experience in

628
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: the universe, we're fucking idiots, because science is a man

629
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:49,400
Speaker 1: made construct anyway, right, It's just something we created to

630
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:53,080
Speaker 1: look through a particular lens to try to understand stuff.

631
00:36:53,080 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: Who makes the science rules? Humans? Who interprets the data, humans?

632
00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,600
Speaker 1: Who tells the stories to the people who aren't the

633
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,080
Speaker 1: scientists the scientists, do you know?

634
00:37:03,160 --> 00:37:03,239
Speaker 3: So?

635
00:37:03,440 --> 00:37:09,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, science is good. Also flawed, also ignorant, also brilliant.

636
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: You know, I love that pactic.

637
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:15,800
Speaker 3: It's dialectic. It's two truths at the same time being true.

638
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:19,200
Speaker 1: Look at you, look at you? Hey, all right, So

639
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: I want to ask a few specifics. Did your dad

640
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:28,240
Speaker 1: say anything to you about the show the film?

641
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:35,239
Speaker 3: He said, he's so proud of me, and that he's

642
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 3: he he's ready to change the things that he couldn't before.

643
00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 3: It was so symbolic. Yeah, it was symbolic of so

644
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,080
Speaker 3: much we'd been through, so much. He raised me and

645
00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,840
Speaker 3: we took this time apart. And I remember the first

646
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:56,360
Speaker 3: time that I had spent a lot of time with

647
00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 3: him in person, because I saw him briefly once, but

648
00:38:00,120 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 3: then I like spent like a couple of weeks with him,

649
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:05,120
Speaker 3: and there was questions that I was like, oh, I've

650
00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:09,360
Speaker 3: been I've been waiting to ask, and they're hard ones.

651
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,800
Speaker 3: So I said, like, hey, like, how did you feel

652
00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 3: when I was gone? Because like a lot of it

653
00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:20,840
Speaker 3: was him choosing not to answer the phone, like in

654
00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 3: that beginning portion the first couple of years, And I said,

655
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:27,799
Speaker 3: how did you how are you feeling when you didn't

656
00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 3: know what was going on with me? Or when I

657
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 3: was feeling suicidal and you didn't know if I was

658
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 3: going to survive it. And he told me he was heartbroken,

659
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,480
Speaker 3: and it was so interesting because I said, like, if

660
00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 3: you were so heartbroken, why didn't you call? And it

661
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:46,719
Speaker 3: was just so fascinating to have this like strange conversation

662
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 3: with this person who I used to be so close with,

663
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,160
Speaker 3: and then it just feels like there's this big gap

664
00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,120
Speaker 3: and this like how do you get back to like

665
00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,560
Speaker 3: baseline trust? And we just kept talking about it after

666
00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:02,920
Speaker 3: that conversation, and we you know, there'd be moments where

667
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 3: like one of us would cry and the other would cry,

668
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 3: and then in the end he just said like this

669
00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:09,680
Speaker 3: and like I'm so proud of you and I love

670
00:39:09,719 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 3: you and I'm listening now. And he used to get

671
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 3: so defensive. And people who don't understand BPD, who are

672
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 3: in the thick of it with the other person who's

673
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,800
Speaker 3: going through the BBD, like they get so defensive. And

674
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:23,800
Speaker 3: it's the more you strip it away, when you understand

675
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 3: the behavioral therapy aspect of like how to change the

676
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 3: behaviors on both sides to help mend these interpersonal relationship problems,

677
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 3: it's just fascinating because it's very clear how the people

678
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:41,000
Speaker 3: would be bed, want to be treated and need to

679
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 3: be treated. I haven't had one phone call with a

680
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 3: person with BPD who's reached out to me or I've

681
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,920
Speaker 3: reached out to them and we've told each other our stories.

682
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:52,520
Speaker 3: There hasn't been one time that I've given them like

683
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 3: a suggestion of or like ask them, is this how

684
00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 3: you feel and where they've said, no, that's not how

685
00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:03,400
Speaker 3: I feel. Like it's been pretty like consistent around the

686
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 3: entire the all of the communication where people have told

687
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 3: me that I get it, or I've told them they

688
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,440
Speaker 3: get it, and so it's very clear what's happening to

689
00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 3: people with BPD. But the problem is that there's two

690
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:20,839
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty six different combinations with it. Because there's

691
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 3: the nine criteria, the five out of nine symptoms you

692
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 3: have to have to be considered borderline, and so then

693
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,719
Speaker 3: it presents itself in so many different ways. It also

694
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 3: presents differently in men versus women, and so it's hard

695
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 3: to get people who don't understand BPD to know it

696
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,719
Speaker 3: all and know how to de escalate certain situations. But

697
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,760
Speaker 3: I finally got my dad to the point where he

698
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:57,600
Speaker 3: was willing to be patient and validating, and that was

699
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,319
Speaker 3: like a major change in our relationship for the better.

700
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,439
Speaker 1: Wow, well good on Dad. Yeah. If I were you,

701
00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 1: because I'm not as good a person as you, clearly,

702
00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: I would have gone, hi, Dad, fuck you.

703
00:41:12,040 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 3: I think I did do that once or twice.

704
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: I don't know that i'd be going and Dad, how

705
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:21,880
Speaker 1: do you feel about this? I'm like, that's such a

706
00:41:22,600 --> 00:41:29,320
Speaker 1: that's such a mature, spiritually evolved, bloody approach. I'm like, wow,

707
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 1: you so much better than me.

708
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 3: I missed him. I missed him. But also the movie

709
00:41:37,640 --> 00:41:40,560
Speaker 3: was so cathartic. It was so it was a letter

710
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 3: to him. And once I said what I said and

711
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: felt how I felt, you know, like it, it kind

712
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 3: of just made it go like okay, like I'm putting

713
00:41:49,520 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 3: this over here, and if if I'm going to grab

714
00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:54,320
Speaker 3: it again, it's going to because it's going to be positive.

715
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:57,680
Speaker 3: And if it can't be positive, then I have accepted that.

716
00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 3: You know, people ask, you know, for advice about their

717
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 3: family situations, like I don't know if my parents would

718
00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:06,560
Speaker 3: be capable of reuniting with me the way they've reunited

719
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:09,840
Speaker 3: with you. And I've said listen, like you trust your gut,

720
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 3: you know. I was prepared, and my dad said the

721
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 3: same thing. It was wild hearing this from him. He

722
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:18,360
Speaker 3: said he had mourned my gut, He had mourned the

723
00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 3: loss of me. He thought he would never see me

724
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 3: again in this lifetime, and so when it came time

725
00:42:23,719 --> 00:42:29,080
Speaker 3: to see each other again, it was just really powerful

726
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:34,320
Speaker 3: and intense. But he had at a certain point accepted

727
00:42:34,360 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 3: that there might be a chance that we would have

728
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 3: never seen each other again. And I think we both

729
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 3: had accepted it, you know, And I think that that's

730
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:48,080
Speaker 3: kind of where I needed to get to, this acceptance of, like,

731
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:50,799
Speaker 3: this person might not show up in my life again.

732
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 3: My mom was there with me throughout it all, like

733
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:57,640
Speaker 3: that really really rough time when I first got diagnosed.

734
00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:03,160
Speaker 3: So it was interesting because she witnessed the whole film

735
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,120
Speaker 3: being made, Like she witnessed me developing the series of

736
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 3: shooting the pilot and everything, and she coached me through

737
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 3: really rough moments. But the interesting thing about that is

738
00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 3: that she wasn't close to me before that period of

739
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,800
Speaker 3: my life my dad, So my mom kind of stepped

740
00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 3: in at this time when my dad kind of couldn't

741
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 3: handle what was going on, and then we all have

742
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,640
Speaker 3: somehow come out on the other side of it. We

743
00:43:30,680 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 3: had this really beautiful reunion interview with the National Education

744
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 3: Allianes for borderline Personality Disorder and I brought them on

745
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 3: and you know, they had a rough custody battle for

746
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 3: ten and a half years in Queen's Court in New York.

747
00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 3: I was a kid, and they hadn't talked in at

748
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 3: least decade. So I brought them in to show the

749
00:43:53,880 --> 00:43:57,759
Speaker 3: audience the people, the families who use any ABPD as

750
00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:02,279
Speaker 3: a resource that you know, healing is possible. And you know,

751
00:44:02,360 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 3: there was a long time that I did say fuck

752
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:06,799
Speaker 3: you dad, you know, and there was times where I

753
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 3: said fuck you mom, And there was times that they

754
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,000
Speaker 3: said fuck you, you know, and like yeah, but it's so

755
00:44:11,120 --> 00:44:14,000
Speaker 3: fascinating how like who's going to rile you up like that,

756
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 3: your family or your whole life, Who's seen every side

757
00:44:18,880 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 3: of you? So there's another element to that that's interesting,

758
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,520
Speaker 3: which is, you know, your family is your family. You're

759
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,640
Speaker 3: born with your family, and it's up to you all

760
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,560
Speaker 3: to navigate it and to respect each other. And if

761
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:36,280
Speaker 3: it doesn't serve you to be in each other's lives,

762
00:44:36,280 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 3: if it's causing everybody more grief than okay, except that

763
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,560
Speaker 3: if both people have gone off and healed and then

764
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,960
Speaker 3: come back and already and open, then you can you

765
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 3: can navigate the next steps. If not, then that's just

766
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 3: the way it is. And I think that's that's one

767
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 3: of the most painful things that I think about of

768
00:44:57,640 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 3: human relationships is actually family relationships, as if you just

769
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: get so stuck in your own ways as people like

770
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:12,240
Speaker 3: both sides, you know that, like you can't hear because

771
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 3: when you fight, it's because you care, you know, but

772
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 3: maybe you're caring about your feelings more than somebody else's

773
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:22,640
Speaker 3: feelings or your perspective or being heard over hearing the

774
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:24,920
Speaker 3: other person, and so like both people have to care

775
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 3: enough about the other person, more about the other person

776
00:45:29,160 --> 00:45:32,440
Speaker 3: than their own than being right to be able to

777
00:45:32,520 --> 00:45:37,640
Speaker 3: ever get to the point of resolution. So that's been

778
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,360
Speaker 3: a lifelong journey. That's been a life long journey. And

779
00:45:40,640 --> 00:45:42,400
Speaker 3: I've I'm thirty one.

780
00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:48,120
Speaker 4: So I've I've spent a lot of time thinking about

781
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:51,960
Speaker 4: this and also I have a lot longer to conquer

782
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:52,600
Speaker 4: it as well.

783
00:45:53,560 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, wow, that's amazing, and it's it's so true.

784
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: It's like so many people get in interactions or exchanges

785
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:07,560
Speaker 1: or you know whatever, conversations and there is no listening.

786
00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: There's only talking, and everyone's everyone's trying to win. Everyone's

787
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: trying to win, and everyone's trying to be right. And

788
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:19,600
Speaker 1: when when your sense of self is tied into winning

789
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,759
Speaker 1: or being right, like your identity is interwoven with this

790
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: concept or this idea and you don't understand. I understand,

791
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:32,719
Speaker 1: but you don't understand and you don't listen, and they're

792
00:46:32,719 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: both doing that. It's like, hey, just don't just don't

793
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:38,759
Speaker 1: get together, like get together and do something good or

794
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: at the very least, Like I talk about this all

795
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 1: the time, the idea that I could be wrong on

796
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 1: this podcast. I'm sure I've said something that's either version

797
00:46:49,480 --> 00:46:51,800
Speaker 1: of the truth of not a version of the truth,

798
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:57,279
Speaker 1: or misleading in some way without intending to. But like

799
00:46:57,360 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: I think this, when you turn down the emotion because

800
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,840
Speaker 1: I want to be right, that's emotion. I believe in

801
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:08,879
Speaker 1: this thing that's emotion, and because my belief in that

802
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: thing is intertwined with my personality. So when you disagree

803
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,680
Speaker 1: with or you question my belief, then you question me.

804
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: All that kind of stuff. I go, well, how many

805
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,560
Speaker 1: times have I been wrong about things. I go, oh,

806
00:47:23,640 --> 00:47:26,360
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe a million. I don't know, like

807
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: I've been around for a long time. And I go,

808
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:32,799
Speaker 1: did I get anything wrong yesterday? I probably conservatively ten,

809
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:36,279
Speaker 1: maybe thirty, I don't know. And then you go, well,

810
00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: what are the chances that I'm right now? Well, statistically

811
00:47:40,200 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: fucking half, you know, fifty percent if I'm lucky. Where

812
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: you go, look, I could be like one of the

813
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: ones that I talk about people with a lot, because

814
00:47:50,560 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: everyone understands is like, for example, God, like I grew

815
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 1: up in a God house. I grew up with with

816
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,960
Speaker 1: belief and faith. And even though I say sweary words

817
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 1: and all of that, and and the truth is I

818
00:48:03,560 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: believe in God. Do I have any evidence? No? Can

819
00:48:06,360 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: I prove it? No? Could it be that there isn't

820
00:48:10,080 --> 00:48:17,040
Speaker 1: a God? Yep, okay, But it's like, obviously faith is

821
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,400
Speaker 1: believing in something you can't prove, something for which you

822
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,640
Speaker 1: have no evidence or data or absoluteness. Otherwise it'd be knowledge,

823
00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:27,680
Speaker 1: not faith. But it's very hard to talk to religious

824
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: people who would even consider that they could be wrong,

825
00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:37,680
Speaker 1: because their whole sense of security is wrapped around being right.

826
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:42,520
Speaker 1: So I can't be even when you go listen bro, statistically,

827
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,759
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't you could be right. But just

828
00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:48,360
Speaker 1: think about this. There's twelve major religions four thousand minor religions.

829
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,120
Speaker 1: They all think like you think, which is that everyone

830
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 1: except me is wrong. Well, you know, it's like, even

831
00:48:58,320 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: just from that, I think, of course, there's at least

832
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,719
Speaker 1: a chance I'm wrong. Of course, you know, is there

833
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:06,720
Speaker 1: a chance I'm right? Is there a chance that there's

834
00:49:06,760 --> 00:49:09,239
Speaker 1: a god? Is there a chance that there's a thing

835
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,240
Speaker 1: called eternity after this kind of eighty or so years

836
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,280
Speaker 1: spinning on a blue ball in infinity? Is there a chance?

837
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:16,520
Speaker 4: Well?

838
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:17,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know.

839
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:18,400
Speaker 3: But just that.

840
00:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,000
Speaker 1: Arrogance and that need to be right and that need

841
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: to win is so fucking socially, emotionally and relationally toxic

842
00:49:29,640 --> 00:49:31,920
Speaker 1: that you've got to get over that first, or you've

843
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: got to at least open yourself to the possibility that

844
00:49:35,080 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: I don't know, and I'm okay, I don't know.

845
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:41,400
Speaker 3: How do you do that in a country like you know,

846
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,600
Speaker 3: whatever is going on in the States right now, How

847
00:49:43,600 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 3: do you do that when it's promoted to act like that,

848
00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,160
Speaker 3: like we're trained to act like that. I mean from

849
00:49:51,320 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 3: very young, you know, or programmed to behave in a

850
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 3: certain way so that you can be accepted by these

851
00:49:57,680 --> 00:49:59,480
Speaker 3: friend groups, so that you can have friends, so that

852
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 3: you can be accepted in larger friend groups, so that

853
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:05,640
Speaker 3: you can work your way up in the social hierarchy

854
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 3: and have a chance in this life. And bullying is promoted,

855
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 3: and negativity is promoted, and pitting people against each other

856
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 3: is the.

857
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:19,400
Speaker 1: Norm, and it's selective, selective, selective dumbness. It's like, so

858
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:23,480
Speaker 1: do you if you understand the concept of echo chambers

859
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 1: and confirmation bias? Oh yeah, yeah, do you think that's real? Yeah,

860
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: but it doesn't affect you at all. Oh no, it

861
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 1: doesn't affect me because you're superhuman, you know. It's like

862
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: it is an like I always say, the biggest problem

863
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:43,320
Speaker 1: in my life is me, which is not me throwing

864
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 1: myself under the bus. It's not self hate, it's just

865
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: self awareness. It's like, well, of course, because the only

866
00:50:49,280 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 1: person who can really fuck up my life, even with

867
00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: good and bad things going on, is ultimately me, because

868
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 1: I'm the decision maker and the action taker. And if

869
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:00,680
Speaker 1: I don't take total accountability for what I do and

870
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: don't do and what I create, then I'm just going

871
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:06,719
Speaker 1: to blame someone for where I end up. If I

872
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:08,520
Speaker 1: end up in a great place, it will be my

873
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 1: fault because I'm amazing. But if I don't, it's going

874
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,440
Speaker 1: to be Kelsey's problem or fault because she did this

875
00:51:14,520 --> 00:51:17,480
Speaker 1: and she didn't do enough of that. So you know,

876
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:24,680
Speaker 1: this is just the ridiculous, inane, unintelligent kind of operating

877
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: system that so many people are. And when you get

878
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:36,160
Speaker 1: in front of charismatic, charming, articulate, well spoken, good looking, attractive,

879
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 1: popular people who some of them are sociopaths, of course

880
00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:44,719
Speaker 1: they've got a fucking following. Of course, people you know,

881
00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 1: drink the kool aid. Of course humans. And also we

882
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: want to belong to a group. We don't like being

883
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,840
Speaker 1: out here. We want to be in the group. We

884
00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 1: want to be accepted and loved and needed and valued.

885
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:01,480
Speaker 1: So when our group believes something we don't, maybe we

886
00:52:01,520 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: don't say it because we don't want to be rejected

887
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:05,359
Speaker 1: or rejected you.

888
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 3: Know in us since school, I mean it, since every

889
00:52:10,760 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 3: you can remember. So, yes, how do you escape that

890
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:20,040
Speaker 3: mentality of needing to conform? And then you know, finding

891
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 3: a way in a path on your own to build

892
00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 3: something that's healthy.

893
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:29,560
Speaker 1: And not take Yeah, takes incredible courage and self awareness

894
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,280
Speaker 1: and humility to go. I got so many things wrong,

895
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:35,920
Speaker 1: and sometimes I'll say, by the way, what I just

896
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:41,799
Speaker 1: said everyone last five minutes could be wrong. I could be.

897
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: I could be. But I think like a really not

898
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,959
Speaker 1: that this is a one stop kind of fix all.

899
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:53,000
Speaker 1: But if you get really clear about what matters to you,

900
00:52:53,000 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 1: your values, not what anyone else thinks your value should be,

901
00:52:56,120 --> 00:52:58,320
Speaker 1: not what the group says, not what the gang says,

902
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: the theology, to philosophy, the ideology, fuck all that. What

903
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 1: do you think? Like what you we're talking about that

904
00:53:05,360 --> 00:53:08,440
Speaker 1: knowledge that we have without knowing why when you go

905
00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:11,920
Speaker 1: into that place that's beyond mind and brain, it's just

906
00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:16,440
Speaker 1: truth or it's your version of the truth. What do

907
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 1: you know in there? Like, that's where I think values

908
00:53:20,239 --> 00:53:25,239
Speaker 1: kind of reveal themselves. You know, I've been around sixty years, right,

909
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 1: I've done a lot of stuff, bought a lot of

910
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 1: stuff in the eyes of the world, have been somewhat successful.

911
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,680
Speaker 1: Blah blah blah blah blah. But you can get all

912
00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:36,640
Speaker 1: the stuff own, all the stuff have, all the stuff.

913
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:41,239
Speaker 1: Still we medicated for anxiety and depression and sleeplessness. In

914
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:44,280
Speaker 1: the middle of all of your success, you're fucking sad,

915
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:49,880
Speaker 1: so you're not successful. You just have stuff, you know.

916
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,200
Speaker 1: So I think it's that if you can get clear

917
00:53:52,239 --> 00:53:55,719
Speaker 1: about what your values really are for you and then

918
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:58,760
Speaker 1: build a reality around that, it's not the worst start.

919
00:54:00,000 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 3: No one is exempt from suffering. I mean the richest

920
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 3: people in the world who have knowledge that other people

921
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:11,680
Speaker 3: don't have, where they know more about the threats that

922
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 3: face this earth, and also the poorest people in the

923
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:19,840
Speaker 3: world who struggle to find their meal that day, or

924
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,840
Speaker 3: who witnessed horrific experiences of their siblings or their parents

925
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,640
Speaker 3: dying from an air strike in their country and not

926
00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,200
Speaker 3: knowing where they're going to end up. I mean, if

927
00:54:32,239 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 3: I've learned anything from the doctors and professionals that I've

928
00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:39,960
Speaker 3: been speaking with, is that no one is exempt from suffering.

929
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 3: Which that's very eye opening because you know, I came

930
00:54:44,680 --> 00:54:52,200
Speaker 3: from not a lot. I came from, you know, a

931
00:54:52,239 --> 00:54:55,759
Speaker 3: single mom household with my sisters, and then you know

932
00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:59,520
Speaker 3: my single dad, and I mean it's harder to raise families,

933
00:54:59,600 --> 00:55:03,279
Speaker 3: as I say parents, So like both sides, like witnessing

934
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:05,840
Speaker 3: how difficult it was for both My mom and my

935
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,240
Speaker 3: dad to get through raising children, a child or multiple

936
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:15,640
Speaker 3: children by themselves. You know, it took its toll on them,

937
00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 3: and so I. You know, it wasn't easy. It wasn't easy.

938
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,160
Speaker 3: And I didn't know that I was ever going to

939
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:28,800
Speaker 3: be capable of making anything like I have. I didn't

940
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:32,720
Speaker 3: know that I'd be able to carve out a life

941
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:37,000
Speaker 3: for myself that I enjoyed. And it took ten thousand

942
00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:43,680
Speaker 3: hours plus of practice of studying, of dreaming, and that

943
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 3: served me well. I mean the dreaming, dreaming bigger, and

944
00:55:48,560 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 3: knowing that no one was going to do that for me,

945
00:55:52,280 --> 00:55:55,400
Speaker 3: that I had to do that for myself. It pushed me.

946
00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:58,880
Speaker 3: And I still struggle, you know, I still have moments

947
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 3: where I just go like like when when will the

948
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:05,240
Speaker 3: thing happen that will make things even easier, Like I'm ready.

949
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 3: But again, if you if if you look back all

950
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:12,319
Speaker 3: the way to my childhood, I just I need to

951
00:56:12,360 --> 00:56:18,200
Speaker 3: remember that have come far. So but this society, it's

952
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,040
Speaker 3: so hard to deal with with all the stressors and

953
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 3: then the constant reminders on in social media telling you

954
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,839
Speaker 3: all the tragic things that are going on. It's hard.

955
00:56:25,880 --> 00:56:28,280
Speaker 3: It's hard to balance that and to push that stuff out.

956
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,440
Speaker 1: Possible, But do you know what, it's super nice to

957
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: meet you. We need to get you back because we're

958
00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,520
Speaker 1: then talking for an hour and we really haven't done

959
00:56:36,600 --> 00:56:40,840
Speaker 1: any kind of education nor awareness around BP day. So

960
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 1: I want to do that if you if you want

961
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:46,480
Speaker 1: to come back like specific, just talk about it.

962
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 3: So.

963
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:53,640
Speaker 1: Kelsey's website is dub dub dub, kelspac k l s

964
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: p a c k dot com, Instagram, kel spack uh,

965
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 1: and your Borderline and pilot people can watch on YouTube on.

966
00:57:03,160 --> 00:57:07,640
Speaker 3: YouTube and a Borderline TV series on TikTok and Instagram

967
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:11,520
Speaker 3: for behind the scenes and clips of the film and

968
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 3: updates on BPD education.

969
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: Amazing, amazing. Is there anywhere else you want to point

970
00:57:19,240 --> 00:57:22,160
Speaker 1: our audience to anything that you want them to look

971
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: at or follow you on or connect with you on?

972
00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:26,040
Speaker 1: Or is that about it?

973
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:30,560
Speaker 3: I think that's That's what I've been focusing on for now.

974
00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:35,200
Speaker 3: I'm like, maybe I'll get an X account one day,

975
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:39,240
Speaker 3: but I also am like very comfortable on Instagram.

976
00:57:39,560 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: Yeah me too. I We'll talk offeebit. Kelsey, thank you

977
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:45,520
Speaker 1: so much. That was in lightning. You're an inspiration. Keep

978
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:51,520
Speaker 1: doing great things, just quickly twenty seconds. Are you doing

979
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:53,080
Speaker 1: your pay? I stay with doctor Blise.

980
00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 3: You know. I want to get my masters at a

981
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:01,000
Speaker 3: Harvard extension, so that is on the horai in So

982
00:58:01,160 --> 00:58:04,840
Speaker 3: I don't think I'll ever do PhD because that takes

983
00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 3: so long. But if I can do masters, I really

984
00:58:08,240 --> 00:58:11,320
Speaker 3: want to. I really want to have some credentials and

985
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 3: be an expert in psychology.

986
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:16,360
Speaker 1: For you, good for you. Get done to a stay

987
00:58:16,400 --> 00:58:21,160
Speaker 1: that domb. It was not, but uh, Tiffany, and thanks

988
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:22,560
Speaker 1: for sitting over there quietly.

989
00:58:23,520 --> 00:58:25,320
Speaker 2: Thank you sir, Thank you Chilsey.

990
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:27,920
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me. I had a blast with

991
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:29,440
Speaker 3: you guys. Can't wait to do it again.