Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Something to Talk About Burstella Podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Sarah Lamarquin, your host, and this year I have
Speaker 1: had the privilege of sitting down with some of the
Speaker 1: biggest names in the country. Because when Estrada's celebrities are
Speaker 1: ready to talk, they come to Something to talk About.
Speaker 1: We're continuing to publish across the summer break and we'll
Speaker 1: be back with a brand new episode on January twelfth.
Speaker 1: In the meantime, each day for the next two weeks,
Speaker 1: we'll be revisiting some of your favorite episodes from the
Speaker 1: past year, and I'm happy to report that there have
Speaker 1: been a lot of popular episodes, but out of the
Speaker 1: fifty we released in twenty twenty four, we've narrowed it
Speaker 1: down to ten conversations to revisit over the summer break,
Speaker 1: and today we'll be revisiting our episode with Tina Arena.
Speaker 1: We had a huge response to this conversation from October,
Speaker 1: which was full of truth bombs from Tina about getting older,
Speaker 1: social media women being pitted against one another, and a
Speaker 1: heartbreaking admission about why her son has been living on
Speaker 1: the other side of the world from her. And if
Speaker 1: you're curious as to why Tina thinks she was quote
Speaker 1: unquote burnt at the stake in a former life.
Speaker 2: Then take a listen.
Speaker 1: You have been a stellar regular over the years, one
Speaker 1: of the most beloved performers this country's ever produced. But
Speaker 1: I'm talking to you today about one of the moments
Speaker 1: where really that this period of your career, Tina Arena,
Speaker 1: the performer that we know today, really in some ways began.
Speaker 1: I would say, let's go back to November nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: an album called Don't Ask is released.
Speaker 2: What are your memories of.
Speaker 1: That time, Tina? Going back to the release of that
Speaker 1: album in late nineteen ninety.
Speaker 3: Four, clearly I was considerably younger, so I perhaps wasn't
Speaker 3: as cynical as what I am now. It was a
Speaker 3: very exciting time because music was really exciting then, and
Speaker 3: there was a structure around music that I think was
Speaker 3: much more It was just a little bit.
Speaker 2: It was a lot better than what it is today.
Speaker 2: So it gave artists had.
Speaker 3: An opportunity to present their works and also to be
Speaker 3: able to go on some sort of an adventure with
Speaker 3: their artistic careers, their performing and their writing and their
Speaker 3: creating of records and so forth. There was a real
Speaker 3: sense of excitement because I really think that that also
Speaker 3: was a time where music was really validated, really really valued, valued,
Speaker 3: I guess is really the word. It wasn't really so
Speaker 3: much a commodity as such. I mean, of course it's
Speaker 3: a commodity, but it wasn't a commodity in the technical
Speaker 3: terms of the word. It was something that people looked
Speaker 3: forward to. They weren't having music rammed down their throats,
Speaker 3: so it enabled people to have the opportunity to really
Speaker 3: immerse themselves in an artist's journey.
Speaker 2: So it was a beautiful time.
Speaker 3: It was a crazy time, but it was exciting certainly
Speaker 3: creatively that moment.
Speaker 1: In Australia, we go back to November nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 1: Paul Keating was Prime Minister. This thing called the Internet,
Speaker 1: which I'm imagining, Tina, would have facilitated a lot of
Speaker 1: the change of culture that you've just spoken about, like
Speaker 1: the onslought of digital media, social media, everything that's come
Speaker 1: with the era that we live in now. Culturally, it
Speaker 1: was the year where Muriel's Wedding was released. It's also
Speaker 1: turning thirty this month, and Priscilla, what about the culture
Speaker 1: at that time would you like to go back and change.
Speaker 3: I missed the fact what I really enjoyed about the
Speaker 3: eighties and the nineties, particularly in Australia, is the fact
Speaker 3: that Australians were much more invested in their own culture.
Speaker 3: They were much more invested in their own music. Hence
Speaker 3: Muriel's wedding was a wonderful example, and so was Priscilla.
Speaker 3: Queen of the Desert was really really very much a
Speaker 3: foray into what Australian culture was at the time. I
Speaker 3: really feel that that has unfortunately, very sadly drifted so
Speaker 3: far away now in these last sort of twenty years,
Speaker 3: because we've had such an infiltration of American music and
Speaker 3: in English music too, which is really sort of buried.
Speaker 3: It buried our community and our capacity to be able
Speaker 3: to bring our art to the fore front. I think
Speaker 3: that's what's ultimately disappointing today as a musician. You can't
Speaker 3: really compete with you know, one hundred thousand songs or
Speaker 3: so that are streamed or delivered every single day. It's
Speaker 3: just it's it's impossible. So there, you know, it's there.
Speaker 3: There is a big pot, and people have.
Speaker 2: Just thrown everything into it.
Speaker 3: And of course that's that's not going to make a
Speaker 3: really beautiful minnestrone, you know, throwing absolutely everything in the
Speaker 3: kitchen sink, and it just doesn't work. It's just it's
Speaker 3: we live in a world that is ultimately saturated. So
Speaker 3: therefore those little jewels and those beautiful things really struggle
Speaker 3: to come to the forefront. So I do I do
Speaker 3: miss I miss that implication and that real fight for
Speaker 3: our own culture that we had in that time.
Speaker 1: What about when you're in the presence of a live audience.
Speaker 3: I think it's the closest that you can that you
Speaker 3: can come to grace if you want to kind of
Speaker 3: use that word. For me, that's that's the that's the
Speaker 3: moment of reckoning.
Speaker 2: That's where I that's where I feel that I'm truly
Speaker 2: doing my job. That's where I that's where it is.
Speaker 3: That's sort of that's where it starts and stops for me,
Speaker 3: because that is the ultimate truth, and people see it
Speaker 3: right in front of their very eyes and they're able
Speaker 3: to participate in something that extraordinary happens when you get
Speaker 3: beautiful music and performance and people coming together, it's always
Speaker 3: a celebration where everybody is on the same frequency, and
Speaker 3: that's an extraordinary that's a real gift, and I'm very
Speaker 3: grateful that i have the opportunity to still be able
Speaker 3: to do that and to focus and to feel like
Speaker 3: I've still got some learning and growing to doing that,
Speaker 3: and that I'm excited about doing all of that. I
Speaker 3: think that if the live aspect wasn't what it is,
Speaker 3: it can't be manipulated. It's not going to be manipulated
Speaker 3: by artificial intelligence. That, as far as I'm concerned, is
Speaker 3: just the technocrats doing what it is for them to
Speaker 3: be able to survive, have some sort of evocation, and
Speaker 3: to rape and pillage people and their crafts all at
Speaker 3: the same time. It's unbelievably disappointing that they feel that
Speaker 3: they have the right to be able to do that
Speaker 3: to people, and the fact that very few people turn
Speaker 3: around and say to them, who do you think you
Speaker 3: are by wanting.
Speaker 2: To take us what it is that we do.
Speaker 3: And to transform it and to not remunerate us for it,
Speaker 3: you know what I mean, and then to create some.
Speaker 2: Sort of a digital.
Speaker 3: Replication of that person of that spirit. It doesn't work
Speaker 3: for me. It just doesn't make any sense. So therefore,
Speaker 3: getting back to the question, the live thing is the
Speaker 3: most beautiful thing. You can't mess with it, you can't
Speaker 3: touch it.
Speaker 1: If you were starting your career now, then, Tina, in
Speaker 1: this landscape, do you think it's something that.
Speaker 2: You would persevere with?
Speaker 1: Would you put aside your doubt? No, you think you'd
Speaker 1: just go and do something.
Speaker 3: I can tell you really honestly, Sarah, if I feel
Speaker 3: a big part of the reason why I fight so
Speaker 3: strongly for musicians and that I've had some stand up
Speaker 3: arguments with people in the music business and record industry
Speaker 3: and in radio and so forth. And I don't mean
Speaker 3: to have those disputes to them. I'm not, They're too
Speaker 3: attack them on a personal level. What I find frustrating
Speaker 3: is that if nobody says anything, nothing is ever ever
Speaker 3: going to change.
Speaker 2: And how are.
Speaker 3: These kids supposed to make some sort of a living
Speaker 3: or have some sort of a life when they're not
Speaker 3: in the least bit respected. So it is particularly sad.
Speaker 3: I do really fret for the younger generation.
Speaker 2: I really do.
Speaker 3: I am scared for them, and I fight for them.
Speaker 3: And I've had some people say to me, well, why
Speaker 3: would you bother fighting. You're fine, You're privileged, you have
Speaker 3: a career, you have money to be able to do
Speaker 3: what it is that you want to do. It's like, well,
Speaker 3: it's actually not about me. I know, I'm fine. You know,
Speaker 3: I've already hit almost fifty years in my career, and
Speaker 3: yes I am privileged, but I've worked very, very hard.
Speaker 3: So it's a privilege that I deserve because I've implicated
Speaker 3: myself in it in a very traditional way. But I
Speaker 3: will fight for the new generation and I will hold
Speaker 3: the government up to the fact that they should be
Speaker 3: respectful of the artistic community and understand that the artistic
Speaker 3: community make an extraordinary financial contribution to any gross domestic
Speaker 3: product of any country. So that's nothing to negate. You
Speaker 3: can't just put that aside and go, yeah, they're just musicians.
Speaker 3: Leave them, you know, don't worry about it. Throw them
Speaker 3: a bone.
Speaker 2: Fuck off.
Speaker 3: No, we don't take that. And it's unbelievably disrespectful. I
Speaker 3: think that's the thing that I find really disheartening is
Speaker 3: the real lack of respect, and that's demonstrated in the
Speaker 3: fact that they are careless and they don't care about
Speaker 3: our future or our children's future.
Speaker 1: You have never been one to hold off sharing your opinion.
Speaker 1: You are a passionate advocate for the industry, You started
Speaker 1: a big conversation with an interview Instellar during COVID where
Speaker 1: you called out lack of support for the arts community,
Speaker 1: you know, complete decimation of an industry and really took
Speaker 1: a big one that ignited a huge national conversation at
Speaker 1: the time when you were inducted into the ARIA Hall
Speaker 1: of Fame in twenty fifteen, you use that moment to
Speaker 1: call out the industry, especially radio, for not playing a
Speaker 1: quote unquote old woman, your God forbid woman over forty.
Speaker 1: Why would we be listening to this on radio? These
Speaker 1: are moments where some people might think, I'm just going
Speaker 1: to have a good night, wear my great gown, have
Speaker 1: a glass of champagne, and bask in the moment, and
Speaker 1: hopefully you take a moment to do those things as
Speaker 1: well when I.
Speaker 2: Wish I was better at that, But anyway, go continue.
Speaker 1: To do though, where does this come from, Tina? And
Speaker 1: has this been something that has been with you from
Speaker 1: the beginning? Were you always outspoken?
Speaker 3: Do you know, Sarah, when you grow up in the
Speaker 3: industry from a little girl and you're you're subjected to
Speaker 3: just seeing things really early on, so you start putting
Speaker 3: two and two together. There's unfortunately the arts is full
Speaker 3: of a lot of bullshit that I just don't really
Speaker 3: I don't have any time for it doesn't interest me.
Speaker 3: I don't feel I learn anything from that. I think
Speaker 3: we learn when we're out of our comfort zone, when
Speaker 3: we do create a conversation, when we ask a question
Speaker 3: that people don't necessarily expect to be asked, when we
Speaker 3: confront and have a discussion about something that is absolutely
Speaker 3: not discussed. And I guess the smoke and mirror thing
Speaker 3: for me is always I've had a real problem with
Speaker 3: that these last few years, and I guess in it
Speaker 3: subconscious way, I've slowly been deconstructing that a little bit,
Speaker 3: and it's like my life. I don't want my life
Speaker 3: to be smoke and mirrors. I have a privilege of
Speaker 3: being able to do my job, and the basis of
Speaker 3: my job is about honesty. So I don't really I
Speaker 3: can't be anything, but because I don't believe that that
Speaker 3: is my I don't believe that's my purpose era. I
Speaker 3: believe that my purpose obviously came out of fighter. I
Speaker 3: don't know what kind of karma I have. I don't
Speaker 3: know what kind of past life I have. I may
Speaker 3: have been burnt at the stake. There are times where
Speaker 3: I've felt that very seriously around some people that I
Speaker 3: feel haven't had the right intentions or perhaps didn't say
Speaker 3: the right thing.
Speaker 2: So I'm a very keen observer. I observe people.
Speaker 3: I study people, and their behavior gives me the answers
Speaker 3: that I need. I also spent many years not listening
Speaker 3: to myself and listening to others, and as a result
Speaker 3: of that, I lost my way. I lost who I was,
Speaker 3: and that's not what it's about. Ex Self expression is
Speaker 3: about you what you inherently feel, think, desire, and I
Speaker 3: can't be anything but truthful and if people that's fine.
Speaker 3: If people don't agree, I'm so comfortable with that because
Speaker 3: I'm comfortable in the notion of agreeing to disagree. And
Speaker 3: that's something Australians don't do very well at all.
Speaker 2: But I lived in.
Speaker 3: France for a long time and there's a lot of
Speaker 3: people that agree to disagree, and there's some extraordinary I
Speaker 3: have had some extraordinary conversations over the last few years
Speaker 3: that I think have probably been a massive con tribution
Speaker 3: to the woman that I am today because I was
Speaker 3: out of my comfort zone and some things I knew
Speaker 3: and some things I didn't know. And sometimes I would
Speaker 3: make points where people were like which I never thought
Speaker 3: about that, or other times though ire like, no, but
Speaker 3: you don't see this is sort of and I go, oh, okay,
Speaker 3: so I'm just open. I'm very open to discussion.
Speaker 1: I wish we had more of that in this country.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: I think agreeing to disagree and listening to one another
Speaker 1: and maybe God forbid, learning from one another is I
Speaker 1: think becoming a really endangered trait. And it's certainly to
Speaker 1: be speak your truth and listen to somebody else can
Speaker 1: make you a target. And I think especially as as
Speaker 1: a woman and a high profile woman, and you talked
Speaker 1: about you know, possibly you know, being burned at the stake.
Speaker 1: I mean might still think, you know, we still like
Speaker 1: to burn women at the stake, even in twenty.
Speaker 2: Twenty four, you know, we do, Sarah. And it's really sad.
Speaker 3: It's really sad because I was really hoping that as
Speaker 3: women we would be able to somehow evolve a little
Speaker 3: bit more graciously as opposed to being in this sort
Speaker 3: of thing of let's fight. No, things are not solved
Speaker 3: like that. They can be solved much more beautifully and
Speaker 3: gently than that, and I don't like this sort of
Speaker 3: male female you know, friction. I believe in the balance
Speaker 3: of life. I believe in the balance of the female,
Speaker 3: like I believe in the balance of the male.
Speaker 2: So that's truly what I feel.
Speaker 3: It's unbelievably important to support other women in a very
Speaker 3: honorable way, even if you don't agree with them, but
Speaker 3: to just sit there and go, you know, what they're doing,
Speaker 3: what they feel is right. So just be gracious to
Speaker 3: enough to understand that that is very honorable. You know.
Speaker 3: I'm a woman who's had many other people attack me
Speaker 3: over the years because I am forthright, because I do
Speaker 3: speak my mind. And it's like, I'm like, look, if
Speaker 3: you want to cancel me and knock yourself out, I
Speaker 3: really like, is it going to really change my life? Well,
Speaker 3: probably not spiritually for me anymore, because I'm learning to
Speaker 3: protect myself around that and I won't buy into the bullshit.
Speaker 3: I just just don't.
Speaker 2: And media plays a big, big, big role in that.
Speaker 3: Therefore, it's important what I say. That's why I feel
Speaker 3: that the truth is everything. The truth is everything.
Speaker 1: And coming up, Tina opens up about the heartbreak of
Speaker 1: her teenage son moving to the other side of the
Speaker 1: world during the pandemic. You spoke there, Tina about the
Speaker 1: honorable idea of supporting other women even if we don't
Speaker 1: necessarily see I too. I I wanted to ask you
Speaker 1: a little bit about how you think the industry may
Speaker 1: hopefully have improved. Maybe it hasn't improved in terms of
Speaker 1: the way that women were once pitted against one another.
Speaker 1: I feel like sometimes that narrative has been turned down
Speaker 1: a little bit. What do you think you were someone
Speaker 1: who has a lot of high profile women that you support.
Speaker 1: I mentioned the ARIA Award being inducted into the.
Speaker 2: Hall of Fame.
Speaker 1: It was Kylie Minogue who inducted you. She flew back
Speaker 1: into Australia for that.
Speaker 3: And I'd asked for Kylie to do the induction because
Speaker 3: for me, it made sense that she would do it
Speaker 3: as she's known me for a long time and she
Speaker 3: understands my trajectory, so for me, it made sense that
Speaker 3: somebody like Kylie, who's been on a long journey herself,
Speaker 3: she would completely understand and empathize. That's why it was
Speaker 3: I made that call and I really wanted.
Speaker 2: Her to do it.
Speaker 1: It was a really beautiful moment, and you, of course
Speaker 1: an fellow a young talent, time alumni Danny Minogue. Have
Speaker 1: been in one another's lives for years since, very formative
Speaker 1: years when you're on the show together and again somebody,
Speaker 1: I think the power of those high profile relationships and
Speaker 1: friendships probably shouldn't be that revolutionary, that we have women
Speaker 1: supporting other women in this way. But do you think
Speaker 1: that that has become something that I imagine there have been
Speaker 1: points in your career where you've even been told, oh,
Speaker 1: we can't release that, we've already got a woman signed
Speaker 1: to the label, or so and so is doing that.
Speaker 1: There's only a room for one woman in the charts,
Speaker 1: one woman on the room.
Speaker 3: What are your thoughts about all of that. You've made
Speaker 3: a very interesting point, Sarah, when in the eighties or
Speaker 3: night just probably started way back before then. Because the
Speaker 3: industry was predominantly male at the time. The women were
Speaker 3: pitched up against one another, and I think a lot
Speaker 3: of those males had some sort of a fantasmical, sort
Speaker 3: of an expedition within themselves and their own lunch boxes
Speaker 3: to sort of sit there and fantasize voyeuristically at those women.
Speaker 3: And also the relationships to the dynamics between women.
Speaker 2: I'll be very honest.
Speaker 3: I've been in several situations over the years, and particularly
Speaker 3: in the nineties and late nineties, where I had met
Speaker 3: some very very successful women internationally who shall remain nameless.
Speaker 3: I will not mention their names at all, because it
Speaker 3: would be disrespectful.
Speaker 2: Of me to do that.
Speaker 3: But where I've felt really uncomfortable because of that very
Speaker 3: notion that we were being pitted against one another, We're
Speaker 3: in complete competition. It's such bullshit. It's absolute bullshit. It
Speaker 3: is so boring. It is a storyline that makes no sense.
Speaker 3: Nobody gets anything from it, not the women and not
Speaker 3: the women watching or the greater audience at large. I
Speaker 3: think what I've struggled with a lot is those really
Speaker 3: boring narratives and cliche things that they do when someone goes, oh,
Speaker 3: I've got a really great idea, or what do you think,
Speaker 3: and it's like, it's actually not a great idea at all.
Speaker 3: It's you think it's a great idea, so you know,
Speaker 3: and hence you don't see any beauty coming out of
Speaker 3: one person or the other because they're just both being
Speaker 3: pitted against one another in this absolute bullshit narrative that is,
Speaker 3: I don't know, it's not interesting for anybody. It's really
Speaker 3: not interesting for anybody.
Speaker 1: In terms of challenging narratives. I also, Tina, wanted to
Speaker 1: ask you about the fact that you changed your name
Speaker 1: to Tina, your stage name when I believe when you
Speaker 1: first appeared on Young Talent time back when you were eight. Again,
Speaker 1: you know, we did not see a lot of diversity
Speaker 1: on our screens in the late seventies and eighties. I
Speaker 1: mean sometimes exactly. I mean we've come a long way.
Speaker 1: That's I'd love to ask you a little bit about
Speaker 1: that moment.
Speaker 3: And you know, changing your name, well, you know, Australia
Speaker 3: was very, very white in the seventies, and that's okay.
Speaker 3: I was born and raised here, so I'm not an
Speaker 3: important sorts. My parents came here when they were quite
Speaker 3: in their twenties, but I was born here.
Speaker 2: I didn't have an issue with it.
Speaker 3: Sarah, my name is peenapi Ina and I understood as
Speaker 3: a kid that I was going to get ribbed and
Speaker 3: I was going to get called everything under the sun,
Speaker 3: and I kind of did in a way.
Speaker 2: But that's cool.
Speaker 3: I really I kind of was water off Duck's back
Speaker 3: for me. I was such a happy go lucky kid
Speaker 3: that I kind of just got on with it, and
Speaker 3: when it was actually John Young who made the suggestion
Speaker 3: to change one letter because he as a Dutchman who
Speaker 3: was born in Holland and came to Australia as a
Speaker 3: young man being ethnic, understood and went, well, if we
Speaker 3: allow her to be called Pina, she's going to be
Speaker 3: she's going to be confronted with some serious bullying and ribbing.
Speaker 2: And he was right.
Speaker 3: So he said to my mum and dad, what do
Speaker 3: you think if we changed the peed with tea. My
Speaker 3: parents were like, that's fine with us, and they looked
Speaker 3: over and I remember the moment. Actually, I was sitting
Speaker 3: in his office and he had this beautiful office of
Speaker 3: this gorgeous sort of racing green color on the wall
Speaker 3: and these really cool sort of Italian leather couches. John
Speaker 3: was unbelievably stylish, had incredible taste in these old gold records.
Speaker 3: So I was just wandering in the office and I
Speaker 3: was seven or something, just looking at the gold records,
Speaker 3: and he sort of said, what do you think about
Speaker 3: changing your name from Peanut to Tina? And I turner
Speaker 3: and I remember and I went, oh.
Speaker 2: That sounds cool.
Speaker 3: With me, and then I kept looking at the Gold
Speaker 3: Records and just.
Speaker 2: Studying the room and the space. I was fine with it.
Speaker 1: Well, there would be a few of those Gold records
Speaker 1: in your future, Tina. And then Tina became Tiny Tina.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about that transition from child star,
Speaker 1: from premiering on Young Talent Time around seven, being broadcast
Speaker 1: into people's living rooms for you know, six years, and
Speaker 1: then coming out as a teenager, and that gap. I
Speaker 1: suppose if we go from there till say ten years later,
Speaker 1: when you're you know, twenty five, twenty six, and then
Speaker 1: recording Don't Ask, I'd love to ask you about that
Speaker 1: interim decade. Tina, and you did release an album when
Speaker 1: you were around eighteen, but as I said at the
Speaker 1: start of our conversation, it really was Don't Ask. That
Speaker 1: was the absolute breakthrough and arrival. From the outside, there's
Speaker 1: always a lot of chat and speculation about these child
Speaker 1: star transitions. I mean, obviously we've seen in everyone from
Speaker 1: Miley cyrus Selena Gomez. It's hard enough growing up. I
Speaker 1: can only imagine how difficult it is growing up on
Speaker 1: national television and then finding a way as a young
Speaker 1: artist and having everyone critiquing that or feeling that. In
Speaker 1: some cases, obviously people will accelerate their adolescence and you know,
Speaker 1: do a hold it like go, you know, shave their
Speaker 1: head or do something hyper sexualized. How was that transition
Speaker 1: for you?
Speaker 3: It was a rough transition, Sarah. That was tough because
Speaker 3: I was really fine and I was pretty outspoken by
Speaker 3: that stage. Because I think that when you grow up
Speaker 3: as a little kid on TV and you're constantly told
Speaker 3: what to do, it's very easy to lose when you're
Speaker 3: it's a pro it is a form of programmation, right,
Speaker 3: so you are going to you just take on board
Speaker 3: what everybody says, and then it's very difficult to be
Speaker 3: able to grow and learn about setting boundaries for yourself
Speaker 3: and so forth, and you do leave yourself open for
Speaker 3: massive attack, which I did. You know, I was bullied.
Speaker 3: I was bullied because I was Italian. I was bullied
Speaker 3: because I wasn't blonde, you know, gorgeous and didn't fit
Speaker 3: the mold, you know. I yeah, I did. I struggled
Speaker 3: a lot, but I fought through it and I knew
Speaker 3: that it was going to be a phase and I
Speaker 3: just kept I just kept that vision and that dream
Speaker 3: and that goal and that focus in my sight, and
Speaker 3: I was like, the only way I will get to
Speaker 3: my point is by working really hard. And I'm a worker,
Speaker 3: you know, by nature. So I just worked, and you know,
Speaker 3: I did it pretty hard. But I learned so much too.
Speaker 3: I started gigging live. You know.
Speaker 2: I remember when.
Speaker 3: I started gigging live at the Grain Store on Friday nights,
Speaker 3: and you know, they had a massive following in that
Speaker 3: day because there was an in house band called the
Speaker 3: Network Horns, and that had a huge following. And every
Speaker 3: sort of Friday Saturday night you would get five six
Speaker 3: hundred punters come to the venue, which was a small
Speaker 3: venue and it was already at its limit. And I
Speaker 3: remember in the early days when the guy who managed
Speaker 3: part of the Grain Stores, a dear gentleman by the
Speaker 3: name of Peter Hoyland, who I still know and occasionally
Speaker 3: bump into. Peter gave me my first break in that
Speaker 3: live thing. And Peter would stand out the front on
Speaker 3: Friday nights. They would go, oh, who's playing tonight, and
Speaker 3: he'd go Tina Arena and the people would be like,
Speaker 3: you're fucking kidding me.
Speaker 2: It was so great.
Speaker 3: I got I wish I had that stuff on film.
Speaker 3: Now you're kidding me, I've got to see this. So
Speaker 3: those very people that came in and were like, yeah,
Speaker 3: ready to absolutely tear strips off me kept coming back
Speaker 3: every Friday night.
Speaker 2: It was very interesting. It was an interesting time.
Speaker 3: People were pretty rough too, But I just knew that
Speaker 3: I had to work. I knew it was going to
Speaker 3: be tough. I had no illusions. I just kept going.
Speaker 3: I was pretty resilient, Actually pretty resilient.
Speaker 1: We're very resilient, hard worker, a woman of conviction, not
Speaker 1: afraid to speak up, but also extremely extremely talented. I mean,
Speaker 1: a voice of a generation. Brings me back to Don't
Speaker 1: Ask and that moment then where there was no one
Speaker 1: was then thinking about Tiny Tina. No one was outside
Speaker 1: going yoh'm getting me. It was one of those moments
Speaker 1: that really blew everyone away and showed what you could do.
Speaker 1: That's certainly what it seems from me as an outsider.
Speaker 1: How did it feel as that was unfolding TEENA? Because
Speaker 1: the first single was changed, it was a huge hit,
Speaker 1: but the album just kept going. And we do still
Speaker 1: see this a little bit today. You know, you do
Speaker 1: have those albums that will stay in the charts for
Speaker 1: a year. We've seen it with Adele, with Taylor Swift. Yes,
Speaker 1: it certainly was the case with Don't Ask. The singles
Speaker 1: just kept coming. It was on the charts for, you know,
Speaker 1: well over a year. How do you call feeling at
Speaker 1: the time, as it was all unfolding and everything changed.
Speaker 3: I was surprised by the reaction, only because I'd been
Speaker 3: programmed to not really believe that I was capable of
Speaker 3: making that transition, because everyone was like, oh, she's a
Speaker 3: young talon timer, She's not going to be able to
Speaker 3: transcend from child starr into an adult.
Speaker 2: I surprised myself in a way. I think, yeah, it was.
Speaker 2: It was very humbling.
Speaker 3: I remember being unbelievably humbled by it and shocked. I
Speaker 3: think a sort of an equal amount of both things
Speaker 3: of humility and shock. I was kind of balancing those
Speaker 3: around for a while. Yeah, I didn't expect it.
Speaker 2: I knew the.
Speaker 3: Record was a really on perable piece of work, a
Speaker 3: body of work that was very very much a depiction
Speaker 3: of where I emotionally was at that point in time.
Speaker 3: The record deserved it, I think I do believe that.
Speaker 2: I think it did too.
Speaker 1: I have it in well, I had the CD at
Speaker 1: the time I had, I had a different CD, a
Speaker 1: different version of it in my car. Friend of mine
Speaker 1: was like, how many copies of this CD do you have?
Speaker 1: I'm like, I need one in my car, one at home,
Speaker 1: and now of course it lives on my phone in
Speaker 1: digital media.
Speaker 2: Not the same thing. Not the same thing. No, it's
Speaker 2: not listening to it.
Speaker 1: It just reminded me what you said, though, was there
Speaker 1: are songs that you know, obviously everyone you're writing that
Speaker 1: material and recording that material in a certain chapter of
Speaker 1: your life. Different people were listening to it at different
Speaker 1: chapters of our lives and then coming back on stage
Speaker 1: and performing the live tour. For me, I started playing
Speaker 1: it again on my playlist the last few days, knowing
Speaker 1: I was speaking to you today, and I remember thinking, Wow,
Speaker 1: this song is just hitting in a whole different place
Speaker 1: thirty years on, and I imagine everyone is coming to that.
Speaker 1: What about for you, Tina, as you prepare to tour
Speaker 1: the album again. I imagine there's songs that were written
Speaker 1: and coming from you from a certain part of your
Speaker 1: life and experience, and they again must just you know,
Speaker 1: take on a whole new meaning of the woman I'm
Speaker 1: speaking to today.
Speaker 3: Sure, Sure, I think what I learned about myself even
Speaker 3: thirty years on is that I was a bit ahead
Speaker 3: of my time. I also think that I had an
Speaker 3: emotional maturity back then at twenty four that doesn't really
Speaker 3: exist in many twenty four year olds today, only because
Speaker 3: they have so many distractions. Therefore it's much more difficult
Speaker 3: for them to hone in on something. We didn't have
Speaker 3: those distractions, Sarah. So those songs were created from a really,
Speaker 3: really profound emotional place. There were things I was going through,
Speaker 3: you know, Sorrento Moon a reflection of my childhood, sitting
Speaker 3: on the beach, on the back beach in Sorrento, watching
Speaker 3: the Surfy boys, watching the girls interact, remembering how beautiful
Speaker 3: that time was, the innocence that came with that time.
Speaker 3: And then you get Heaven help my heart, which was
Speaker 3: a real prayer to myself, because I knew that my
Speaker 3: heart was going to get thrown around, and it did,
Speaker 3: and not only in a romantic level. I'm not just
Speaker 3: purely you know, talking about that. I'm talking about the
Speaker 3: greater picture at large. You know that people were constantly
Speaker 3: throwing things my way, you know, wasn't it good? Talking
Speaker 3: about a relationship you know, in my late teens that
Speaker 3: was a really beautiful relationship and it didn't continue, but
Speaker 3: it was important for me to be respectful of how
Speaker 3: wonderful it was when it lasted, and not coming from
Speaker 3: a place of being a victim, which is, you know,
Speaker 3: the place that most people come from today. They choose
Speaker 3: to play the role of a victim. We don't have
Speaker 3: any more heroes. A Chains was absolute frustration because I
Speaker 3: knew that when I entered that project of Don't Ask
Speaker 3: and the Tree, in the emotional trajectory that I was
Speaker 3: on at the time and the alchemy that was around me,
Speaker 3: Chains really is a manifestation of knowing that I was
Speaker 3: gonna go on one hell of the journey and I did.
Speaker 3: I went on a hell of a journey and I
Speaker 3: was in Chains, So you know, it became almost it
Speaker 3: became literal, not almost, it was literal.
Speaker 2: So all those.
Speaker 3: Songs are you know, they're very real emotions that I
Speaker 3: was experiencing at that time as a twenty three, twenty
Speaker 3: four year old young woman, just putting my heart down
Speaker 3: and going, well, it is what it is, and suren
Speaker 3: you know, surentomone. When the record company first heard that,
Speaker 3: they sort of went, what the fuck is that?
Speaker 2: And I was like, what do you mean? Makes me
Speaker 2: feel good? But it's sort of it's not right.
Speaker 3: It doesn't really fit into anything that when musically doing
Speaker 3: at the moment.
Speaker 2: And I was like, precisely.
Speaker 3: Exactly mission mission accomplished, you know, and they were like, oh,
Speaker 3: you can't do that, and I said, I can do
Speaker 3: what I want, Thank you.
Speaker 1: I also love the fact that Sorrento Moon is still
Speaker 1: played to this day. You will be walking around a
Speaker 1: shopping center and all play. I love the fact that
Speaker 1: an iconic Australian song name checks a place where you
Speaker 1: grew up. It's you know, so many of the songs
Speaker 1: that we listened to, you know, international landmarks and aw
Speaker 1: can this and that and how fabulous and we're not
Speaker 1: even talking about Sydney on Melbourne or something.
Speaker 2: That's all like Postcard. It's Sorrento.
Speaker 1: I love that that that's just trickled into part of
Speaker 1: the Australian cultural landscape because of that song.
Speaker 2: Well it is. It is very much.
Speaker 3: The Italians like to think that it's about them on
Speaker 3: the Amalfi Coast and I'm like, well so sure.
Speaker 1: A few years you released In Deep, and this really
Speaker 1: also cemented your success in the French market. You actually
Speaker 1: moved to France in two thousand came back home.
Speaker 2: About twelve years later. I wanted to ask you a.
Speaker 1: Little bit about that, Tina, the experience of living overseas,
Speaker 1: creating a new day to day life in a whole
Speaker 1: new country, and then coming home from that.
Speaker 2: A lot of.
Speaker 1: People will move away overseas for a time. How has
Speaker 1: that fit into the broader story of your life so far?
Speaker 2: Well, it was exciting.
Speaker 3: I mean I traveled an awful lot to Paris sort
Speaker 3: of from about ninety six ninety seven because In Deep
Speaker 3: was released there and started.
Speaker 2: To do really well.
Speaker 3: Chains had a real underground vibe, and then they released
Speaker 3: I'm not sure if it is I want to know
Speaker 3: what Love is that I did a cover of Foreigners
Speaker 3: version of that with Mick Jones, and I had also
Speaker 3: at the time recorded the soundtrack to the film The
Speaker 3: Mask of Zoro with the late Funny, the late James Horner,
Speaker 3: the late Jim Steinman and now the late Will Jennings
Speaker 3: who wrote the lyrics. All three gentlemen are all dead,
Speaker 3: Like it's just mental But anyway, that's another story.
Speaker 2: That film was.
Speaker 3: So unbelievably successful in the French market because they love
Speaker 3: the story of Zoro. So when that film came out
Speaker 3: and it's such a majestic piece of music that it
Speaker 3: just went bananas. So the French public had heard me
Speaker 3: in a pop format and then they heard me in
Speaker 3: a sort of timely classical format.
Speaker 2: So that for them was like yay. So there was
Speaker 2: a real curiosity.
Speaker 3: I was really nonchalant to I was really happy to
Speaker 3: be out of Australia at that time too, because I
Speaker 3: was starting to go through a lot of really difficult
Speaker 3: lessons and things in the late nineties. My relationship had
Speaker 3: fallen apart that became unbelievably ugly.
Speaker 2: So I moved.
Speaker 3: Because I just needed to have clarity. So it was
Speaker 3: lovely to go there and try and find a new
Speaker 3: life and just be me, like really really be me,
Speaker 3: not have to put on any airs and graces because
Speaker 3: people don't know who I am, they don't know my past.
Speaker 3: But what ended up happening, Sarah is just with not
Speaker 3: a lot of time that went past then people I
Speaker 3: was walking down the street in France and people were
Speaker 3: stopping me everywhere. That was something that was pretty hard.
Speaker 3: It wasn't easy, you know, and then you throw a
Speaker 3: baby into the mix and it's like, oh, Gord, what
Speaker 3: do I do here? You know?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was tough because I'm very private. I'm very private.
Speaker 2: I like to have fun.
Speaker 3: I love to work, but I remove myself from it.
Speaker 3: I can't lead that sort of a lifestyle. I need grounding.
Speaker 3: I need grounding, I need normality. I like I run home.
Speaker 3: I'm happy in my home. I cooked my meals, make
Speaker 3: sure the washing's done, the place is as tidy as
Speaker 3: it can be.
Speaker 2: So I do.
Speaker 3: I'm quite juxtaposed. So I can't live in that other
Speaker 3: world full time.
Speaker 2: It would drive me insane.
Speaker 1: Let me ask you, then, Tina. One of my final
Speaker 1: questions coming home to Australia. You're here, you have family
Speaker 1: in Australia, Your your son now is well, he'll be
Speaker 1: twenty next year. I believe, what's your relationship with Australia
Speaker 1: now with some of those issues, and then being closer
Speaker 1: to your own family and with your son here at
Speaker 1: nineteen at this point in your life.
Speaker 3: Well, my son isn't with me, Sarah. My son lives
Speaker 3: in Paris, so he's been there for the last three
Speaker 3: years my son, his father, and I had decided well,
Speaker 3: Gabriel ultimately had desired to leave Victoria during the lockdown
Speaker 3: because like many young children, he didn't being locked up
Speaker 3: at home. Actually none of us did, and we were
Speaker 3: supposed to put up and shut up. And I still
Speaker 3: struggle with that, and that's why I was also very vocal,
Speaker 3: because I don't think many people understood that it wasn't
Speaker 3: so much you know, the artistic world and so forth,
Speaker 3: that had literally we didn't know what was going to
Speaker 3: happen to our world other than I intuitively knew that
Speaker 3: we're in a massive reset.
Speaker 2: I intuitively knew.
Speaker 3: It was a heartbreaking time for the family because the
Speaker 3: family fell apart. His Gabriel's father and I split up
Speaker 3: about four years ago, maybe more than nearly five years ago.
Speaker 3: And that's fine. We're all fine now, thank god. But
Speaker 3: it was a really brutal, brutal journey. So when your
Speaker 3: only child decides to leave because he needs to be
Speaker 3: able to walk the streets and have a sense of
Speaker 3: freedom and be a young boy and learn, it made
Speaker 3: me really angry with the state with Australia and then
Speaker 3: being so compliant. I do think that there's a tremendous
Speaker 3: amount of work to do in this country.
Speaker 2: It's probably got a lot to do with the.
Speaker 3: Fact that I am very local and that I hate
Speaker 3: the totalitarian display of behavior that we are currently seeing,
Speaker 3: and the fact that nobody talks about it.
Speaker 2: I think it's unbelievably selfish.
Speaker 3: I think it's unbelievably ignorant that it's not spoken about.
Speaker 3: I'm quite traumatized by it. I ended up going to therapy,
Speaker 3: and I'm very comfortable in saying that I have therapy
Speaker 3: on a regular basis because I was very unhappy. I
Speaker 3: got very sick last year and ended up in hospital,
Speaker 3: had to cancel the tour. I really do believe that
Speaker 3: that's a manifestation of the trauma that happened in twenty
Speaker 3: twenty twenty, In twenty twenty one and twenty twenty two,
Speaker 3: it was three years.
Speaker 2: That it went on for it was very unfair.
Speaker 3: Nobody's been held accountable, absolutely no one, And in that
Speaker 3: time my son decided to go overseas, so it was
Speaker 3: a massive hamburger with the lot for me to try
Speaker 3: and ingest at that time. So I've had to slowly
Speaker 3: work my way through it with the help of and
Speaker 3: lot of love of my friends and my family who've
Speaker 3: really helped me, you know, through that journey. It's not
Speaker 3: over every day, you know. There are some days that
Speaker 3: are really great and there are some days that you know,
Speaker 3: are tough. But I'm doing much better because I'm learning
Speaker 3: a lot more about that and I'm understanding that not
Speaker 3: everybody understands these things, not everybody sees the big picture,
Speaker 3: because so many people allow themselves to be completely inundated
Speaker 3: and ruled by what it is that they see. People
Speaker 3: are not inherently the types to try and strip through
Speaker 3: a few layers to see how how did we get
Speaker 3: to this? Why did we get to this? And to
Speaker 3: ask all these questions which I've asked. Perhaps I've done
Speaker 3: my head in a lot more than I should have,
Speaker 3: but I think I've grown a lot and I'm much
Speaker 3: more peaceful with it now. And I'm happy to say
Speaker 3: that my relationship with my son is getting better by
Speaker 3: the day, you know, And that's good because we really
Speaker 3: did struggle as mother and son for a couple of years.
Speaker 3: He was very angry, very angry with being shut off
Speaker 3: here and as a parent, you know, and as you
Speaker 3: know as well, we don't have a guidebook.
Speaker 2: Telling us what to do.
Speaker 3: So the way I navigated through that through unadulterating honesty
Speaker 3: with my boy. I'm very very honest with Gabriel, and
Speaker 3: I have expressed strengths to him. I've expressed perspectives to him,
Speaker 3: and i have expressed to him my failures, and I've
Speaker 3: been very open about that and very very happy because
Speaker 3: I think it's I think my son has sort of
Speaker 3: understood and he has gone well, you know, at least
Speaker 3: mum doesn't sit there and pretend that you know, she's
Speaker 3: got the answer to everything. She's only human and she
Speaker 3: does great things, and sometimes.
Speaker 2: She's an dickhead. Oh it's funny.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for sharing that. I'm really sorry
Speaker 1: that you've you know, had a really challenging few years.
Speaker 1: But I know that it's going to make a lot
Speaker 1: of people feel a lot less alone and seen and
Speaker 1: heard to hear your story. And I think, as you say,
Speaker 1: we don't get a handbook as parents don't, but I would, well,
Speaker 1: people much smarter than me. But probably you know, experts
Speaker 1: in the field do say that it's a real gift
Speaker 1: for us as parents to admit to our children we
Speaker 1: are figuring this out too, and that we're not perfect
Speaker 1: and we're all in this together. And you know, what
Speaker 1: a gift that you have given your son with that
Speaker 1: honesty and vulnerability, and I think, what a gift you've
Speaker 1: given to us. So thank you so much for opening
Speaker 1: up about that.
Speaker 2: I really you're very well. It's not easy.
Speaker 3: It's not easy too, But I also think it's it's
Speaker 3: important that people understand that it doesn't matter what you
Speaker 3: do as a job, living what kind of a life
Speaker 3: you've had. You know, people can only assume that they
Speaker 3: think you've led a particular life. They don't know, and
Speaker 3: then it's up to us as to whether we choose
Speaker 3: to share things or not. I don't want to share
Speaker 3: everything because I don't think it's any every it's not
Speaker 3: anybody's business, you know, Like I don't care to really
Speaker 3: know everything about other people.
Speaker 2: What I do know is that they're.
Speaker 3: Human, and you know, humans, you know, are constantly juggling things.
Speaker 2: That's what that's what they're doing.
Speaker 3: But I do believe in being truthful and saying there,
Speaker 3: you know, there were really really difficult times, but it's
Speaker 3: part of life. And if I can transcend that and
Speaker 3: turn it around, that's when I'm really winning, and I
Speaker 3: think I'm winning now because I am turning it around,
Speaker 3: and I'm very grateful for that.
Speaker 1: Really, what a time to be revisiting this album Don't
Speaker 1: Ask and taking to the stage, Tina. Imagine like it's
Speaker 1: been obviously every time that you're connecting with an audience
Speaker 1: you're performing. Obviously you're digging so deep into yourself to
Speaker 1: share that. But I would imagine that particularly profound. These
Speaker 1: three decades of your life and so much growth and
Speaker 1: so much change and so many wonderful things and so
Speaker 1: many challenges. What a moment to have that moment of
Speaker 1: retrospection yourself and for everyone that is coming to see
Speaker 1: you perform.
Speaker 2: Do you know what's really beautiful? Sarah?
Speaker 3: It recently dawned on me only because I'm not very
Speaker 3: good at celebrating what it is.
Speaker 2: That I do.
Speaker 3: I tend to do what I do, and then I'm
Speaker 3: move away and I do other things, so I don't
Speaker 3: spend that time reflecting what I'm really proud of with
Speaker 3: Don't Ask. And why I think it was the substantial
Speaker 3: it had the substantial success.
Speaker 2: That it did.
Speaker 3: Is it dealt in universal themes? It dealt in love,
Speaker 3: it dealt in loss, which we all deal with.
Speaker 2: And I think that those themes.
Speaker 3: Thirty years down the track haven't shifted at all.
Speaker 2: They're still there.
Speaker 3: There's still things that we deal with, only now I
Speaker 3: deal with them differently. The hindsight of having lived a life,
Speaker 3: having done beautiful things, having made some really stupid mistakes,
Speaker 3: not having listened to myself, but now listening to myself
Speaker 3: and those songs, that's why they've stood the test.
Speaker 2: Of time, you know.
Speaker 3: And I'm very excited and a little scared to get
Speaker 3: back on stage and sing those songs again because I've
Speaker 3: not done the record from top to bottom.
Speaker 2: So it's gonna be fun. It will be fun.
Speaker 1: Well, final question, is there a song that you're most
Speaker 1: looking forward to singing and will it be the same
Speaker 1: song that fans ask you for all the time or
Speaker 1: is it going to be a little bit unexpected?
Speaker 2: Oh look, I don't know fan the fans are. You know.
Speaker 2: I have a very loyal audience around the world.
Speaker 3: I've been so incredibly blessed and it's an audience I've
Speaker 3: nurtured from time. I do have a profound, like a
Speaker 3: request constantly to do show Me Heaven, which was not
Speaker 3: on Don't ask was actually on in deep. I've always like, yeah, no,
Speaker 3: I don't connect with that song.
Speaker 2: For some reason.
Speaker 3: See, that was a record company back then that said, oh,
Speaker 3: do this, you know, do a version of Maria McKee's
Speaker 3: Show Me Heaven. I'm like, what for? She sings it
Speaker 3: so fucking great? Why do you want me to sing
Speaker 3: it for anyway?
Speaker 2: Again?
Speaker 3: You know, I was just doing what I was told
Speaker 3: back then, and hence you know the reason why I'm
Speaker 3: not there doing that anymore because it just doesn't.
Speaker 2: It doesn't. I don't relate.
Speaker 3: There is a song that I'm looking forward to doing.
Speaker 3: I'm looking forward to doing Greatest Gift because I think
Speaker 3: that that's really beautiful. And the other one that I'm
Speaker 3: looking forward to doing is Message M.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a beautiful song. Yeah, and I just I'm
Speaker 2: looking I'm looking forward to it.
Speaker 3: It's going to be very interesting to see when we
Speaker 3: get into rehearsals what kind of shape they're going to take,
Speaker 3: do you know?
Speaker 2: So it's yeah, I'm curious.
Speaker 3: I don't know yet, None of us know till we
Speaker 3: get into that room and start banging away.
Speaker 1: Well, all the best with rehearsals and look forward to
Speaker 1: it and thank you again, Tina for your time today.
Speaker 2: It's been really lovely to speak to you.
Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed that episode of the summer series
Speaker 1: or something to talk about. Make sure you're following us
Speaker 1: if you're not already, because we'll be revisiting some of
Speaker 1: your favorite episodes of the past year until we're back
Speaker 1: with a brand new episode on January twelfth.