Speaker 1: Get a your bloody superstars, Welcome to another and Storming
Speaker 1: and the Youth Projector's HAPs I'm excited. I'm excited because
Speaker 1: I didn't have to do any prep. I didn't have
Speaker 1: to do any research. I didn't have to put on
Speaker 1: a party dress. I've got no fucking lippy or makeup
Speaker 1: because I've got a long time friend who I haven't
Speaker 1: seen for a long time. So I'm a shit friend.
Speaker 1: But I'm trying to rekindle the relationship with your help listeners.
Speaker 1: So hi, dd oh.
Speaker 2: That's so hurtful. You know, I carry a picture of
Speaker 2: you in my wallet every day. I like you.
Speaker 3: That's lovely what you just said, because you know, I
Speaker 3: do various interviews and media appearances and stuff, and I'm
Speaker 3: a frantic prepper. I like to be over prepped for everything.
Speaker 3: But today I was genuinely just feeling excitement, zero prep,
Speaker 3: just the thought of talking to you. I feel safe
Speaker 3: in your hands, So don't let me down.
Speaker 1: Okay, and we'll do a podcast. Also, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think like you know me. I know you right, You're
Speaker 1: a little bit more You're a bit more organized, a
Speaker 1: bit more pedantic than me. But I don't think you're
Speaker 1: not particularly OCD, are you.
Speaker 2: I mean that shounds No, I'm just so organizer.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So whereas I it depends who
Speaker 1: it is. Like if I'm talking to somebody that I mean,
Speaker 1: I've literally I've told you, We've done nearly two thousand
Speaker 1: of these. I've had some conversations with people. And about
Speaker 1: five minutes in, like, I had a conversation with this
Speaker 1: guy who's maybe the smartest person in the world. His
Speaker 1: name is Professor Ahmi Goswami. Right, is this beautiful Indian academic,
Speaker 1: spiritual teacher, guru, Like he lives at the intersection of
Speaker 1: academia and research and wisdom and spirituality and the soul
Speaker 1: and the He's like, and I'm talking to him, and like,
Speaker 1: this is not even me fucking around being funny. Five
Speaker 1: or six minutes in, I'm thinking to myself, I'm literally
Speaker 1: too dumb to have a conversation with this person. I
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know, I don't even know what
Speaker 1: to fucking ask him. I like, And so I said,
Speaker 1: so I got about you know, I don't think I'm
Speaker 1: a complete dummy, but compared to him, I was a
Speaker 1: fucking yaka, Right, And I said to him, Hey, prof,
Speaker 1: I've got to admit something. And he goes, what you know,
Speaker 1: what's that, Craig? You know? And I said, I think
Speaker 1: I'm too stupid to have a conversation with you. And
Speaker 1: he was so sweet and so nice, and he said,
Speaker 1: somebody who's stupid wouldn't say that. I'm like, well, maybe,
Speaker 1: but have you ever had a moment on an interview
Speaker 1: where you've gone, fuck, I'm out of my depth or
Speaker 1: I don't know where to go?
Speaker 3: Well before I answer that, you've got a hell of
Speaker 3: a potty mouth on you, Craig Harp, But where did
Speaker 3: that come from? Didn't used to swear that proper lady
Speaker 3: like me back in the day.
Speaker 2: What your answer to him? Your response to him?
Speaker 3: And I'm not going to listen to your response about
Speaker 3: having a potty mouth because I see you having a
Speaker 3: sip of water and I know you're watching you.
Speaker 2: You know you know you've turned it wrong. No, seriously,
Speaker 2: I swear like a wolfing.
Speaker 3: I think your response to him was exactly what I
Speaker 3: would have done. And you've always got to remember that
Speaker 3: you're probably not the dumbest person in the room, but
Speaker 3: if you are, there's an opportunity to learn so don't
Speaker 3: don't think of it in and I'm not calling you vain,
Speaker 3: but don't think of it.
Speaker 2: Oh everyone's going to think I'm done because I can't
Speaker 2: keep up with this guy.
Speaker 3: You have to look at it as an opportunity to
Speaker 3: learn something, and you won't learn anything if you don't
Speaker 3: put your hand up and say, I actually didn't really
Speaker 3: understand your answer just then, or I'm not keeping up
Speaker 3: with you. Can you please tell me? And that's where
Speaker 3: you that's where you're going to learn something. And you
Speaker 3: can almost bet that eighty ninety percent probably more of
Speaker 3: the people listening are thinking, oh, I'm so glad he
Speaker 3: asked that because I wasn't following either.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. It's like one of
Speaker 1: my kind of rules is hang out with people who
Speaker 1: drag you up, you know, like when I'm training, like
Speaker 1: the guy that I've been training with for the last
Speaker 1: fifteen years is better than me, stronger than me, you know,
Speaker 1: more gifted genetically than me. And I'm like, it's great
Speaker 1: because I'm never winning with him. Not that it's a comp,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of a comp. But I'm never winning
Speaker 1: right now. I'm always coming second. But what it does
Speaker 1: is being with and whether or not. That's like I
Speaker 1: told you just before we went live. I'm doing my
Speaker 1: PhD at Monash and it's at this in this lab
Speaker 1: called brain Park. What a great name, hey, brain Park.
Speaker 1: So it's the Neuroscience Neuropsychology Laboratory. And when I started
Speaker 1: their dd oh my god. It's like going to a
Speaker 1: country where you don't speak one word of the language
Speaker 1: everyone else does and you're like, oh, by the way,
Speaker 1: I'm a hundred years old.
Speaker 3: Fuck.
Speaker 1: So yeah, I think that especially when you get older,
Speaker 1: right you and I are about the same age. When
Speaker 1: you get older and putting yourself in a situation where
Speaker 1: you've got to keep learning and keep developing, and.
Speaker 3: I think, sorry, I've talked over you. I can't help
Speaker 3: myself and get over excited. I also think a lot
Speaker 3: of people we feel inadequate for some reason I don't know,
Speaker 3: and it could be to do with social media, that
Speaker 3: we're constantly comparing ourselves to what we see and hear
Speaker 3: of other people and wondering are we up to scratch?
Speaker 3: Are we're going to be liked as much? And this morning,
Speaker 3: actually I had to put I don't need to share
Speaker 3: the deep details of what it was, but that it
Speaker 3: was two people I had to put in touch with
Speaker 3: each other, both of whom in their particular fields are
Speaker 3: absolute leaders and pillars and highly respected people. And when
Speaker 3: I said to one, hey, you know, you're okay to
Speaker 3: make a call to the other person, one of them
Speaker 3: sent me a thing saying, Oh, I'm having imposter syndrome.
Speaker 3: I don't know that I'm up to the other person's
Speaker 3: level to speak to them.
Speaker 2: And you know, it just it surprised me.
Speaker 3: Because it was somebody who I respect and defer to
Speaker 3: their great knowledge of.
Speaker 2: Their particular topics.
Speaker 3: So I think that just tells us even the most
Speaker 3: successful people are probably thinking that they're not as good
Speaker 3: as the person next to them.
Speaker 2: You know, it's just human nature, I.
Speaker 1: Think one I totally agree. I think even more than that, maybe,
Speaker 1: like some of the most successful in inverted commas from
Speaker 1: the outside looking in, some of the most successful people
Speaker 1: that I've chatted with or mentored or coached or met
Speaker 1: or whatever more insecure than the average.
Speaker 2: And it also comes back to what is success.
Speaker 3: I was listening to a podcast the other day called Heavyweight,
Speaker 3: and it was a story about a guy who was friends.
Speaker 2: With you know, Moby, and I don't know how to
Speaker 2: describe him.
Speaker 3: Is he a rapper, a musician, Moby who was pretty
Speaker 3: successful in his eye right, And this guy knew him
Speaker 3: when he was young.
Speaker 2: And this guy had a.
Speaker 3: Set of CDs, told you how long ago it was
Speaker 3: of gospel music, you know, music that was recorded in
Speaker 3: the Deep South, and he gave those CDs to Moby,
Speaker 3: who then sampled music from it and made big hits
Speaker 3: from it. And this guy was like, I'm not asking
Speaker 3: of the credit, I just want my CDs back. Anyway,
Speaker 3: they tracked down Moby and he's still very friendly to
Speaker 3: this guy. And part of this guy's issue was that
Speaker 3: he felt as though he was doing an ordinary job
Speaker 3: and that everyone in his life, including his childhood friend Moby,
Speaker 3: had completely surpassed him. And so eventually tracked down Mobe
Speaker 3: and this guy sits with him and talks to him,
Speaker 3: and Moby says, the most lonely and the most flat
Speaker 3: he ever felt in his life was when he was
Speaker 3: in this extraordinary hotel room waiting to go out on
Speaker 3: stage at the Grammys and receive all the awards in
Speaker 3: the world, and everyone's fawning all our room, and your
Speaker 3: great mate and he went back to this hotel room
Speaker 3: and he said he just walked around. I think he
Speaker 3: maybe said he cried. He was alone. He just felt
Speaker 3: so lonely. So my point being that everyone else watching
Speaker 3: and seeing him and knowing his name would think, wow,
Speaker 3: that guy's an incredible success, and yet he inside himself
Speaker 3: was just thinking what is this? You know, what what
Speaker 3: am I measuring? How my happiness is not great? What
Speaker 3: am I getting from this?
Speaker 1: That is? Okay? So we're going to have a good chat, right,
Speaker 1: So I love this shit, right. I talk about what
Speaker 1: what is success a lot, and it's like, obviously success
Speaker 1: is different things for different people. But yeah, it's so
Speaker 1: true that you can be in a crowd and lonely,
Speaker 1: or you can be totally alone and not lonely. You know,
Speaker 1: I live by myself and people like, don't you get lonely?
Speaker 1: And I go, I actually don't get lonely because when
Speaker 1: you know, within reason, whenever I want to talk to
Speaker 1: someone or have a coffee with someone, or you know,
Speaker 1: I'm always doing this. I'm talking to people every day,
Speaker 1: I'm having meetings. You know, there's a lot of interaction.
Speaker 1: But then also it's my personality that I'm kind of
Speaker 1: quite good on my own, but for a lot of
Speaker 1: other people, my life would be intolerable for them based
Speaker 1: on how they work. And it's like, you think about
Speaker 1: your job for most of your life, being on air,
Speaker 1: listened to by hundreds of thousands of people over the years,
Speaker 1: millions and millions of people, and the MIC's on, and
Speaker 1: you're on air and be funny, be amusing, be entertaining,
Speaker 1: creating engagement, you know, like build rapport, and now you
Speaker 1: finished like you could perform under a level of pressure
Speaker 1: that most people couldn't deal with and you were in
Speaker 1: your element. But for someone else, your job would have
Speaker 1: been a fucking nightmare.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Well that comes back to the prep thing. I
Speaker 3: was made sure I was over prepped. But this again
Speaker 3: comes back to the thing of success, because if you
Speaker 3: just look at the data, by the measurement that we
Speaker 3: can look at of the figures, I was a success.
Speaker 3: I was number one in my time slot, and yet
Speaker 3: the management and for people who aren't familiar with me,
Speaker 3: I've worked in radio for close to forty years and
Speaker 3: was hosting an afternoon talk show on three OW, which
Speaker 3: is a.
Speaker 2: Talkstation in Melbourne, and.
Speaker 3: Doing well at it, Like It's taken me a long
Speaker 3: time to actually I'm very bad at singing my own praises,
Speaker 3: but I've had to learn how to do that to
Speaker 3: actually state as fat here's what I achieved. Anyway, I
Speaker 3: achieved number one status, which was great. Yeah, and yet
Speaker 3: management still turned to me and said that they weren't
Speaker 3: renewing my contract. So even though I had what probably
Speaker 3: appeared to be success, it wasn't enough to keep me
Speaker 3: in the job that I loved and lived for. So again, like,
Speaker 3: what is success? How do you measure? Where is it
Speaker 3: you're going? It's like, this is a stupid example, but
Speaker 3: in Bridget Jones's diary, she's got this goal weight, you know,
Speaker 3: she diets and diets and diets and all the wrong
Speaker 3: things she does to get herself to a goal weight.
Speaker 3: And she wakes up the next morning where she's hit
Speaker 3: her goal weight and she's like, oh, everything's the same.
Speaker 3: I still don't have the man that I want, and
Speaker 3: like nothing's different. So how do we all know what
Speaker 3: we're aiming for?
Speaker 1: I think there's this dichotomy between our external world. You know,
Speaker 1: what people see situation, circumstance, environment, brand, career, accolades, trophies, Grammys, money,
Speaker 1: you know, qualifications, podcast numbers, you know, all of that
Speaker 1: shit that everyone's aware of, and we somehow correlate all
Speaker 1: of those three dimensional, physical, visible things that the world
Speaker 1: can pay attention to, we equate that with success. But
Speaker 1: as as you and I both know, you can be
Speaker 1: succeeding in inverted commas and miserable and lonely and disconnected
Speaker 1: and medicated for anxiety and depression. Right, so, I think
Speaker 1: the dichotomy is like for me, especially the last six
Speaker 1: years with my research and beyond that just because I'm curious,
Speaker 1: but it's like what needs to be happening in my
Speaker 1: internal world for success, Like what's the you know, psycho logical, emotional, sociological,
Speaker 1: spiritual in a working of success, Like because you can
Speaker 1: be in what seems to be a successful life like
Speaker 1: from the outside looking in success, but the inside out
Speaker 1: experience might be trauma or loneliness or sadness despite your
Speaker 1: nice house and your nice bank balance.
Speaker 3: Well, it's something that I've had to really focus on because, like,
Speaker 3: losing that job really hit me hard, and so it
Speaker 3: forced me to first of all, just stop, take a breath,
Speaker 3: try and recover from the stress and that's a whole
Speaker 3: separate story that I've been interested to ask you about
Speaker 3: and dealing with stress, but then thinking.
Speaker 2: And sorry to like go all hairy theory on you,
Speaker 2: but I think you're probably up for.
Speaker 3: The conversation, but actually thinking what am I doing on
Speaker 3: this plan and what is my point of being here?
Speaker 2: And what do I want from it?
Speaker 3: And it honestly, it sounds it's like a cliche, but
Speaker 3: it comes back to all of those very basic things.
Speaker 3: The love of my husband, who I've been with for
Speaker 3: many many years, like his love and my love I
Speaker 3: think deepened because he supported me so much through that.
Speaker 3: The love of my children, the love of my family,
Speaker 3: that's probably my number one.
Speaker 2: Thing in life. The realization that my friends are like this.
Speaker 3: Giant blanket that's kind of in that next layer out
Speaker 3: beyond family, and that they are so important. It's like
Speaker 3: you may not speak to you, I haven't spoken to
Speaker 3: you for a long time, and yet I feel a
Speaker 3: friendship from you, like to know that you've got friends
Speaker 3: who love and support you. And then there's all the
Speaker 3: extra things. You start to think to yourself, you know,
Speaker 3: what can I do for pleasure each day? My pleasure
Speaker 3: is going for a long walk every morning. And you know,
Speaker 3: I'll sound like a crazy hippie, but just to be
Speaker 3: amongst trees and to be walking along next to the
Speaker 3: river in the direction that the water is flowing, that
Speaker 3: somehow energizes me. I love to go out into my
Speaker 3: garden and plant things and grow them. I've got chickens.
Speaker 3: I love to watch them running around the garden like
Speaker 3: I derive so much pleasure from those simple things. I
Speaker 3: love to cook a beautiful meal for my husband when
Speaker 3: he comes home and we enjoy that together. Those things
Speaker 3: that are so simple that anyone can have. Those are
Speaker 3: the things that nourish me and make me feel energized.
Speaker 3: And come back to that word again, I feel successful
Speaker 3: in my life because I am lucky enough to have
Speaker 3: all of those things in my life.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Can I ask you a question?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Sure.
Speaker 3: So when I lost my job, it was quite well, look,
Speaker 3: it made headlines and it was a bit of a splash,
Speaker 3: and I literally retreated into a hole in my home.
Speaker 3: I didn't leave the house. I was humiliated and devastated
Speaker 3: because it was what I loved doing. And I would
Speaker 3: feel this stress that kept me awake for quite a
Speaker 3: few nights but well, you know, you wake in the
Speaker 3: night and your stomach sinks again. You know you've forgotten
Speaker 3: that something bad has happened, and then your brain brain
Speaker 3: It's like when your footy team loses, you know, and
Speaker 3: you wake up the next morning, Oh yeah we lost.
Speaker 2: So I was having that the whole time.
Speaker 3: Oh please, I still love them, even though they break
Speaker 3: my heart all the time.
Speaker 2: But I would get this waves of stress.
Speaker 3: And you know that expression, you know you shit yourself,
Speaker 3: but there isn't There is a feeling and I don't
Speaker 3: mean I shap myself, but there's a feeling where it
Speaker 3: sort of washes over you and you feel it go
Speaker 3: right to your fingertips. And I remember thinking to myself,
Speaker 3: this can't be good for my physical body. This is
Speaker 3: not good for me to have. Whatever it is, it's
Speaker 3: rushing through me.
Speaker 2: Like I don't know.
Speaker 3: I've never been a drug taker, but I imagine when
Speaker 3: drug takers take a shot of something, it's that feeling.
Speaker 2: It will literally, you know, it makes your stomach drop,
Speaker 2: It makes you.
Speaker 3: Feel like you want to rush to the toilet, It
Speaker 3: makes your fingers tingle.
Speaker 2: How do you get rid of that?
Speaker 1: Craig, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So let me. Can I just
Speaker 1: come from a few angles and then if I don't
Speaker 1: tick the right box, let me know. And I'm glad
Speaker 1: you opened the woo woo door, because I think I've
Speaker 1: been kind of successful. You've been kind of successful. Depends
Speaker 1: on how you know, Like in my career, I've done
Speaker 1: pretty well, you've done pretty well. Go us. Does that
Speaker 1: mean you and I are going to be happy and
Speaker 1: never anxious? And that doesn't mean that at all? We could,
Speaker 1: you know. So one doesn't always equal the other, you know.
Speaker 1: But that's how like you and I grew up in
Speaker 1: a collective culture and mindset that said, hey, Craig and
Speaker 1: d D. Success is about all that shit that everyone
Speaker 1: can see, right, and you tick the box and you
Speaker 1: get the right weight, and you make the right money,
Speaker 1: and you climb the right ladder and you drive the
Speaker 1: right car and you're mixing the right and all of
Speaker 1: that and then you're s ccessful. And then as you know,
Speaker 1: your Bridget Jones what's her name, Bridge of Jones reference,
Speaker 1: it's like she woke up, she was in the dream body,
Speaker 1: and she was still probably lonely and disconnected and insecure
Speaker 1: and all of those things. So one doesn't equal the other.
Speaker 1: But I think what happens part of the So you're
Speaker 1: in radio, you're well known, you're flying, people love you,
Speaker 1: you're show's rating, it's ass off. You're good. You're really
Speaker 1: fucking good at what you do. And that's not accolades,
Speaker 1: that's just data, Like we can literally prove statistically that
Speaker 1: you're good. Right, So that's not even that's not even
Speaker 1: an idea or a suggestion. That's just like, well, can
Speaker 1: we look at the can we look at the numbers?
Speaker 1: Can we look at the ratings? We sure can't. Okay,
Speaker 1: she's on top. Well, she's fucking good. So that's you know.
Speaker 1: But then one of the challenges for us is when
Speaker 1: you're really good at something, you have your sense of
Speaker 1: self intertwined with that thing that you do. Yes, so
Speaker 1: it becomes part of your identity and you're you're in
Speaker 1: that I am it's an im statement. I am a broadcaster,
Speaker 1: I am a journalist, I am I am I am.
Speaker 1: And then somebody takes that away from you when you
Speaker 1: weren't expecting it to go, and then you don't know
Speaker 1: who the fuck you are because if I'm not that
Speaker 1: who I am? Who am I? So that can be
Speaker 1: part of it where who you are is intertwined with
Speaker 1: what you do. And so one of the challenges from
Speaker 1: a my PhD is largely about self awareness, but it
Speaker 1: is trying to know who you are and understand who
Speaker 1: you are beyond what you do or what you look like,
Speaker 1: or where you live, or what you have or what
Speaker 1: people think you all the shit that you are not.
Speaker 1: Like you have a body, and you have a brand,
Speaker 1: and you have a brand, and you have a car,
Speaker 1: and you have a husband, and you have a track record.
Speaker 1: You have all these things, but you're not any of that.
Speaker 1: We need to figure out where's DD beyond all of
Speaker 1: the shit that she's not. And this is a little
Speaker 1: bit you know, woo woo, you open the door, So
Speaker 1: I blame you. This is a little bit eckhart Toll,
Speaker 1: who says, I.
Speaker 2: That's victim blaming.
Speaker 1: Craighatha, I mean says, I'm the awareness of what I'm
Speaker 1: not right, and that's kind of I'm the observer, like
Speaker 1: that's that heightened, elevated version of me seeing the me
Speaker 1: that operates in the world. And so then back to
Speaker 1: your So there's that and you and I have seen that.
Speaker 1: You know a lot of footballers now you and I
Speaker 1: know footballers who have gotten the ass mid career what
Speaker 1: we thought was mid Korea, and then capitulated emotionally, mentally,
Speaker 1: socially where some and of course we're not going to
Speaker 1: mention any names, but have gone from flying, making lots
Speaker 1: of dough, playing on the MCG, being very well known
Speaker 1: and doing well in that context, and then their life
Speaker 1: falls apart on some level because they weren't equipped or
Speaker 1: skilled or prepared for anything beyond football. Right, So there's
Speaker 1: that there's a trying to figure out who we are.
Speaker 1: And I think that when you get the sack, or
Speaker 1: when there's a big life change, you kind of do
Speaker 1: get to that what the fuck actually matters? Like what
Speaker 1: is really you know? I've got this lady who was
Speaker 1: like my second mom. I grew up with her. I
Speaker 1: had obviously my mum, but this lady who's my mum's
Speaker 1: best friend, who was very much my second mom. And
Speaker 1: she passed away just before New Year, and I went
Speaker 1: into hospital. She was a day or two away from
Speaker 1: the end, and I sat with her. Her name's Ray,
Speaker 1: and I sat with her and there was just me
Speaker 1: and her in the room, and she was holding my
Speaker 1: arm and I was holding her, and in that moment,
Speaker 1: I'm like, this is what matters, Like all my bullshit,
Speaker 1: all my hey, how many likes have I got? Who
Speaker 1: thinks I'm funny? Hey, I'm doing a PhD. Hey, but whatever, right,
Speaker 1: all the shit that I identify with, right, that's not
Speaker 1: my reason for living. That's just stuff. They're just they're
Speaker 1: not bad, they're not bad, but they're ultimately kind of distraction.
Speaker 1: And in that moment, and I don't mean to be
Speaker 1: too weird, but she turned to me and she she's
Speaker 1: holding my hand, now she's she's dying, says to me,
Speaker 1: you know how much I love you? And that was it.
Speaker 1: And I'm the big alpha male. I'm fucked. I can't
Speaker 1: even speak. Yeah, And in that moment, You're like, oh,
Speaker 1: you know what matters is love? Yeah, what matters is people,
Speaker 1: What matters is connection, What matters is compassion, What matters
Speaker 1: is having a purpose bigger than me. Yes, I can
Speaker 1: be a selfish fuck.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: And then that so, yeah, I think it's And then
Speaker 1: the last bit I want to say then I'll shut up,
Speaker 1: is so when you say all this stuff.
Speaker 3: Is happening, don't shut up on your own podcast. To
Speaker 3: be really shut up for you because just silence.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that would be awkward. So how is the last
Speaker 1: thirty minutes?
Speaker 2: Craig? Shut up? But that was it.
Speaker 1: But when you said, I've never used drugs or you
Speaker 1: know which you haven't, I've never used drugs. I've never
Speaker 1: even had beer, Right, So you and I are pretty boring,
Speaker 1: but maybe wise, who knows. But the thing is that
Speaker 1: like when you have a thought, when you have a
Speaker 1: negative thought, there's a biochemical reaction in your body. When
Speaker 1: you have a positive thought, the same except you know,
Speaker 1: one's producing adrenaline and cortisol the negative one, and one's
Speaker 1: producing dopamine, which is a feel good hormone. Right, So
Speaker 1: everything you eat a bit of food, there's a chemical
Speaker 1: reaction in your body. I give you a hug. Now,
Speaker 1: if you hate me, there's a chemical reaction that's bad.
Speaker 1: If you love me, there's one that's positive. So this
Speaker 1: whole idea of you know that, oh, there's your mind,
Speaker 1: and there's your emotions, and there's your body is actually
Speaker 1: a flawed paradigm because your emotions, your psychology, and your
Speaker 1: physiology are one system and everything affects everything. So if
Speaker 1: you get sad, if I say to you, Hey, dd,
Speaker 1: I've got some bad news. And I tell you something
Speaker 1: and you process it in your brain. Right, that's cognitive,
Speaker 1: and then you understand it. Now you feel sad, Well,
Speaker 1: that's brain and that's emotion. And then there's a physical consequence,
Speaker 1: you know, like your blood pressure goes up and your
Speaker 1: heart rate increases, and your sympathetic nervous system, which is
Speaker 1: fight or flight, switches on and all these things that oh,
Speaker 1: now I'm sad, or now I'm anxious or And the
Speaker 1: genesis of that was me telling you a thing. So
Speaker 1: all interacts all the time, and so the challenge in
Speaker 1: managing our body is really how do I manage my thoughts?
Speaker 3: Well, I was concerned when I was going through that
Speaker 3: stress as to the physical effects that it was having
Speaker 3: on my body, because I did learn something from you
Speaker 3: all those years ago when you.
Speaker 2: Used to train me.
Speaker 3: You know, you do need to look after your physical
Speaker 3: body because everything comes from what you're able to do
Speaker 3: each day and what you're able to get to. But yeah,
Speaker 3: there were some weird consequences. I actually cracked a tooth,
Speaker 3: which I have no awareness of doing, but the dentist
Speaker 3: said that I was probably like biting my jaw down
Speaker 3: so hard in my sleep.
Speaker 2: You know. It's things like that, and that just made
Speaker 2: me annoyed.
Speaker 3: I thought I didn't even know I was doing that,
Speaker 3: and I was annoyed that I had been put in a.
Speaker 2: Situation where I was so stressed that that had happened.
Speaker 2: I had this weird pain.
Speaker 3: I actually thought I must have had a pendicitist or something,
Speaker 3: but it turned out it was just.
Speaker 2: What is it the babies get, like a.
Speaker 3: Colic or something, which was a result of just whatever
Speaker 3: those stress hormones that were going through my body, and
Speaker 3: I was angry that they were there. I was thinking,
Speaker 3: get out of my body. I'm doing everything I can
Speaker 3: to try and let this stress go. Let the whole thing,
Speaker 3: the whole radio, everything that was that go. And I
Speaker 3: think I'm past it now, but yeah, it was like
Speaker 3: I just couldn't get it out of my life fast.
Speaker 3: Can I tell you how I kind of how I
Speaker 3: came from that, because I really was on my knees
Speaker 3: And there are moments now where something will happen or
Speaker 3: something will say something, and I come undone again and I'll.
Speaker 2: Disolve in tears very easily.
Speaker 3: One was a guy who wanted to interview me on
Speaker 3: a It was a podcast about radio people in radio,
Speaker 3: and I really just did not want to talk about
Speaker 3: radio because it had hurt me so badly, and he
Speaker 3: was such a nice guy, and I felt sorry. I
Speaker 3: kept saying, putting him off, putting him off, and in
Speaker 3: the end I said, okay then, and I had to
Speaker 3: because I forget what I've done and I'm terrible with
Speaker 3: dates and all that stuff, but I have kept everything
Speaker 3: in scrapbooks.
Speaker 2: So I got out my scrap books of my.
Speaker 3: Whole radio career and was just sort of flicking through
Speaker 3: to remind myself, Oh yeah, I interviewed that person and
Speaker 3: I remember, you know.
Speaker 2: That show and stuff like that. And as I was
Speaker 2: going through it, I thought, I mean, I did quite
Speaker 2: a bit of stuff. I actually a bit of stuff.
Speaker 3: But the realization that helped me was that no one
Speaker 3: can take that away.
Speaker 2: My record stands.
Speaker 3: So that was part of divorcing myself from what you
Speaker 3: mentioned a moment ago. My identity was as that radio person,
Speaker 3: and I thought, well, no one can take away what
Speaker 3: my achievements were. And I then also reminded myself, I
Speaker 3: know I've always done right by the people I've worked with,
Speaker 3: and all of my friendships with colleagues. I can't think
Speaker 3: of a single colleague that I don't still have a
Speaker 3: friendship with or that we don't have a good relationship still.
Speaker 3: So I've still got all the friendships and the relationships
Speaker 3: with people I worked with. And I started to see
Speaker 3: things from a different perspective.
Speaker 2: Instead of thinking, oh.
Speaker 3: God, I've lost all of that, I started to think, well,
Speaker 3: hang on, let's see all the things that I have
Speaker 3: got left. So there was my record, there was the
Speaker 3: professional relationships. I consider myself very lucky that even though
Speaker 3: it's radio, most people don't know what you look like.
Speaker 3: But you know, occasionally I'll go up to the supermarket
Speaker 3: and someone will tap me on the shoulder and say,
Speaker 3: oh I really miss your show or.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed your show. It's just a little moment.
Speaker 3: But those things lift me and I absorb them and
Speaker 3: I'll take that and that they helped to heal the
Speaker 3: hurt that was done.
Speaker 2: But probably the biggest thing for me, and just stop
Speaker 2: me if I'm talking too much, it's your podcast.
Speaker 1: Keep on.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 3: The thing that really helped me was having a new purpose.
Speaker 3: And if you'll forgive me mentioning a podcast that I've
Speaker 3: been working on on my show. I used to have
Speaker 3: a guy, a former homicide detective by the name of
Speaker 3: Charlie Bazino, was a regular on my show and he
Speaker 3: would come on and talk.
Speaker 2: About crime once a week and just a great guy.
Speaker 3: And one time he came on, he brought a guy
Speaker 3: called Daryl Floyd on to be interviewed, and Darryl back
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy five, his brother went missing. His brother
Speaker 3: was only twelve and Daryl was ten at the time,
Speaker 3: and Darrel has spent his entire life looking for his brother,
Speaker 3: trying to find his body.
Speaker 2: He's pretty sure he knows where it is. It's in
Speaker 2: a gold mine.
Speaker 3: In Mirovoka, and he's digging in that gold mine and
Speaker 3: has been for many years trying to find his brother's remains.
Speaker 3: And the person who he believes is responsible for his
Speaker 3: brother going missing is still alive. So Charlie came to
Speaker 3: me and I interviewed Daryl on my show and I
Speaker 3: was just sort of really moved by his story. But
Speaker 3: after my job ended, I notice how I still have
Speaker 3: trouble saying I was sacked. But that's just how that
Speaker 3: helps me get through it. Charlie said to me, have
Speaker 3: a look at this case again and see what you think.
Speaker 3: And so I did, and the more and more I
Speaker 3: read about it, I thought, this is a massive, massive
Speaker 3: by police and there's a lot of injustice in this story.
Speaker 3: And I also think that this story can be solved,
Speaker 3: and that's something Charlie has sat one hundred percent.
Speaker 2: So I then focused.
Speaker 3: On investigating researching the story, and the last probably eighteen
Speaker 3: months to two years have been creating this podcast if
Speaker 3: you want to listen, it's called The Boy and the
Speaker 3: gold Mine. And knowing that and I'm not making any
Speaker 3: money from it, it's all been a labor of love
Speaker 3: from my perspective, but I have found it so satisfying
Speaker 3: that I'm doing something good to help this person who
Speaker 3: has been so poorly treated by the authorities and by
Speaker 3: life itself. It's given me purpose, It's given me something
Speaker 3: to do, something to create that I can be satisfied
Speaker 3: I've done my best. I'm really proud of what I've created,
Speaker 3: and that has probably been the biggest thing, apart from
Speaker 3: family and the love of those around me, in helping
Speaker 3: me get back on my feet again.
Speaker 2: And I have to say, quite honestly, right now, I
Speaker 2: feel quite content with my life, which is a long
Speaker 2: way from where I was.
Speaker 3: If you spoke to me two years ago, I literally
Speaker 3: couldn't speak. I couldn't speak. No, I couldn't talk for
Speaker 3: two or three days. I couldn't speak.
Speaker 1: How answer as much or as little as you want,
Speaker 1: but what you know, how did you process that emotionally
Speaker 1: and mentally over the first two or three months? Did
Speaker 1: you when you finally could talk, did you talk about it?
Speaker 1: Did you do therapy? Did you punch the walls? Did
Speaker 1: you what? Did scream into a pillow? How did you
Speaker 1: start to decompress and deal with that? If you did, Yeah, no,
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 3: And it took me probably a couple of weeks before
Speaker 3: I gathered myself enough to say I need help. I
Speaker 3: need someone to help me process this like i've you know,
Speaker 3: I'm making it sound like I was under the dinner.
Speaker 2: I was, And I was getting up every.
Speaker 3: Day and going about my life, and I kept doing
Speaker 3: the things that I knew would just give me maximum health.
Speaker 3: At the time, I was trying to make sure that
Speaker 3: I was sleeping. I don't like taking sleeping tablets, but
Speaker 3: I was using sleeping tablets at that time just to
Speaker 3: make sure that I was getting sleep, because I strongly
Speaker 3: believe that getting a good night's sleep is really important
Speaker 3: to setting you up to deal with.
Speaker 2: The day that comes. I was eating as healthily as
Speaker 2: I could.
Speaker 3: I was making sure that I was getting outside in
Speaker 3: nature and walking each day to try and walk away
Speaker 3: the stress. So I did all those physical things. But
Speaker 3: there was a point after a couple of weeks where
Speaker 3: I realized I wasn't being cured, and so I spoke
Speaker 3: to a counselor, and I think I may have had
Speaker 3: three or four sessions in the end, and the woman
Speaker 3: who was my counselor, I actually specifically chose someone who
Speaker 3: wasn't in Victoria, which is where I was going to air.
Speaker 3: She was in another states, which meant that she had
Speaker 3: no clue of who I was, or what my job was,
Speaker 3: or what my media profile was at the time, because
Speaker 3: I wanted to just be a lady who was a
Speaker 3: bit damaged at that point, and she was actually and
Speaker 3: I'm not really a very spiritual person, but in some
Speaker 3: ways I am. Maybe I'm not religious, but maybe I
Speaker 3: am a little bit spiritual.
Speaker 2: But she was quite spiritual. But we really connected.
Speaker 3: I just lucked out that she was very gentle, and
Speaker 3: she gave me a few little droplets that helped me
Speaker 3: to process what I was going through. One of the
Speaker 3: things was that I felt quite betrayed by someone in
Speaker 3: management who, you know, on the very day that they
Speaker 3: let me go, was being my buddy in the corridor.
Speaker 3: And then that night bang and I just remember I
Speaker 3: said to her, I thought he was my friend.
Speaker 2: She said to me, he was never your friend, you.
Speaker 3: Know, So it was just a a few things she
Speaker 3: said like that that kind of gave me the tools
Speaker 3: to unpack what it was that was bothering me so much.
Speaker 2: And I mean other things I did.
Speaker 3: I just said to stop listening to radio full stop,
Speaker 3: which is why I love podcasts like yours, because podcasts
Speaker 3: are everything.
Speaker 2: Instead of radio. But yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Would highly recommend to anyone to speak to a professional
Speaker 3: if you're struggling. It's not a weak thing to do.
Speaker 3: It's not a hairy, fairy, strange thing to do. It's
Speaker 3: actually one of the best things you can do to
Speaker 3: speak to another person who can empathize and sympathize and
Speaker 3: give you some suggestions on how you can work your
Speaker 3: way through whatever it is your trauma.
Speaker 2: Is that you can get through it.
Speaker 1: I love that, Thanks for sharing that. It's funny when
Speaker 1: you say that how your therapist said he was never
Speaker 1: your friend. I'm how do I say this like there's
Speaker 1: no self pity in this or like my life's great.
Speaker 1: I'm very blessed and lucky. But I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of people over the years who I like my bestie
Speaker 1: until I'm no use to them anymore, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like, oh, it's their role playing friendship.
Speaker 1: But then all of a sudden the thing that I was,
Speaker 1: the doors that I was opening, the help, the assistance.
Speaker 1: When I can't do that or they've got everything, then
Speaker 1: they kind of vanish. I've also got beautiful, amazing people, right,
Speaker 1: But like I have a litmus test for friendship, and
Speaker 1: it's like this is my test. One do they say
Speaker 1: nice things behind my back? Like when I'm not around,
Speaker 1: are they you know? Two? Is my life better with
Speaker 1: the minute? Now? Like? Is my life better because dds
Speaker 1: in my life? Like that's a you know, if I'm
Speaker 1: not around and DD is talking about I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I would I'm pretty sure you might be saying
Speaker 1: positive things. And then the other thing is would they
Speaker 1: still want me to be in their lif I feef
Speaker 1: f I'm no value to them, like no strategic value,
Speaker 1: do you know what I mean. I don't mean that
Speaker 1: I'm not supportive of but it's like, you know, like
Speaker 1: I think a lot of what people call friendships are
Speaker 1: almost like a strategic alliance. Yeah, okay, where either one
Speaker 1: side or both sides there's some there's some benefit other
Speaker 1: than other than just the normal you know, emotional, psychological
Speaker 1: or sociological benefits of friendship. But I mean more like
Speaker 1: a more like a career kind of leverage or financial,
Speaker 1: you know, incentive or something like that. So I also
Speaker 1: think if you've got five people in the world, no
Speaker 1: three other than your family, but three people in the
Speaker 1: world who are like your ride or die, you could
Speaker 1: ring that person anytime, anytime and just go I need
Speaker 1: you to come over, and they're like, I'm on my way.
Speaker 1: That's it. I'm on my way. Yeah, not like after
Speaker 1: these it's just like, yep, I'm coming. I'll see in
Speaker 1: ten minutes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's.
Speaker 3: I absolutely one hundred percent agree with you on that.
Speaker 3: And I've got a best best friend. But then I've
Speaker 3: got this circle of friends and I was actually one
Speaker 3: of them, had a birthday just recently, and I was
Speaker 3: in this room of all these incredible women, and I
Speaker 3: just thought, I know that any one of these women
Speaker 3: I could call if I was having a problem of
Speaker 3: some sort and that they would jump and offered help.
Speaker 3: And I do think women do it very well. I
Speaker 3: think men are getting so much better at it.
Speaker 2: You know. I look at my husband, and he's.
Speaker 3: Great, and we talk about everything, and we support each
Speaker 3: other and share what we're thinking and feeling.
Speaker 2: But I also know that he plays golf once a
Speaker 2: week with this group of guys, and you know, they're
Speaker 2: a pack of wrap bags, but I love them. They're
Speaker 2: lovable rogues. But what they do is they talk, you know.
Speaker 3: And I think for guys golf or playing some sort
Speaker 3: of sport, or having some sort of a place where
Speaker 3: you can get together with your.
Speaker 2: Bros and talk about stuff.
Speaker 3: I think it's kind of considered to be a female
Speaker 3: thing that we sit in gossip, But I think men
Speaker 3: are just as willing to do that, to chat over
Speaker 3: things with their pals. And I've personally seen with my
Speaker 3: husband and with some of his mates, how these guys
Speaker 3: have been able to help each other through. And I
Speaker 3: can tell sometimes when Kira, and my husband comes home,
Speaker 3: you know, and he's having a few tests and things
Speaker 3: done on his heart at the moment. And he came
Speaker 3: home and he said, oh, I can't think which of
Speaker 3: the guys it was.
Speaker 2: One of the bros.
Speaker 3: Oh, he also had the same thing. And I thought, well,
Speaker 3: that's just in the back of my mind thought, well,
Speaker 3: that's good. He's obviously talking to the guys about what
Speaker 3: he's dealing with at the moment. These tests is having done.
Speaker 3: He's obviously worried. He's run it past the guys. One
Speaker 3: of the guys has sivia. I had that too. Here's
Speaker 3: how it worked out for me. So I think that
Speaker 3: having that friendship circle like you just said, and I'll
Speaker 3: go for more than three. I like having tons. The
Speaker 3: more you can get, the merrier, But the more people
Speaker 3: that you can kind of share the load with, spread
Speaker 3: the load, because to me, that's what friendship feels like.
Speaker 3: And I don't like to sound like I'm like a
Speaker 3: heavy weight hanging off all my friends next, but I
Speaker 3: think they know that they could do the same with me.
Speaker 3: You know, That's what a friendship is when there's that
Speaker 3: balance doesn't always have to be sometimes, you know, in
Speaker 3: your own friendships that perhaps you're giving a little.
Speaker 2: Bit more than the other person is.
Speaker 3: And that's when, like you said, you start to think, oh,
Speaker 3: is this person making my life better? Sometimes the balance
Speaker 3: is out, But proper good friends, I think I kind
Speaker 3: of keep that little ledger in their mind. And if
Speaker 3: you've got that with anyone, that's worth gold.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so interesting, Like this is a weird lap, right,
Speaker 1: but like the way that depending on who you listen to,
Speaker 1: whether or not you listen to the creation people or
Speaker 1: the evolution people, but you know, sociologists and the like
Speaker 1: suggests that we've been An anthropologist suggests that we've been
Speaker 1: around as a modern kind of species for three hundred
Speaker 1: thousand years. And you think about for most of that
Speaker 1: evolutionary timeline, we haven't lived like we live now, Like
Speaker 1: we haven't like look at you, You and I are
Speaker 1: in different places having a real time conversation, you know,
Speaker 1: Like we didn't live in high rises, and we didn't
Speaker 1: have cars and planes, and we didn't have electricity, and
Speaker 1: we didn't have fridges. Like ninety nine point nine to
Speaker 1: nine percent of people who have ever lived didn't have
Speaker 1: all the amazing shit that we've got and they lived
Speaker 1: in They lived basically in tribes. And there was a sociologist.
Speaker 1: His name is Dunbar I forget his first name, but anyway,
Speaker 1: he built this. He created this theory around this idea
Speaker 1: of what is the ideal number of people to have
Speaker 1: in your community, because people used to live in communities,
Speaker 1: and the ideal number was about one hundred and fifty,
Speaker 1: where you know about one hundred and fifty people, and
Speaker 1: you get on with about one hundred and fifty people,
Speaker 1: and you know, and there's people within that community who
Speaker 1: all are good at different things and will serve each
Speaker 1: other in different ways. And now it's just like the
Speaker 1: world is so you know, vast, and access to so
Speaker 1: many people is so easy, and it's almost like sometimes
Speaker 1: it can be overwhelmed. And I think when you turn
Speaker 1: down the volume on all the noise and you just
Speaker 1: go and hang out with your friends and turn everything
Speaker 1: off and just plug into another human or group of
Speaker 1: humans and get away from the mayhem of you know,
Speaker 1: whatever social media or whatever external noise, it's like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: this is this is what humans are meant to do.
Speaker 1: When men can be together, the.
Speaker 3: Interaction, you know, And I have to say, if I
Speaker 3: do miss anything, really enough, mostly gotten over.
Speaker 2: Not doing radio anymore, but I missed that interaction.
Speaker 1: I've mostly gotten over getting the sack. Come on, say
Speaker 1: it I gotten over.
Speaker 2: Well, technically they just didn't renew my contract. Is that sacking?
Speaker 2: I suppose it is. But also the interactions we're having
Speaker 2: with people.
Speaker 3: And I absolutely agree with what you're saying that human
Speaker 3: interaction is everything. But these days, so much of the
Speaker 3: interaction is a click.
Speaker 2: On a keyboard.
Speaker 3: You know, it's not and that's not real, and people
Speaker 3: think it's real, and it's not so to me sometimes
Speaker 3: without sounding silly, you know, just popping up to the
Speaker 3: supermarket and bumping into someone that I know, or one
Speaker 3: of the mums that used to go to the kids
Speaker 3: went to school with my kids. Hang on, that sentence
Speaker 3: didn't come out right. Their kids went to school with
Speaker 3: my kids. You know, just those human interactions, they're so
Speaker 3: important and it's something. So my parents are both still alive.
Speaker 3: Dad's eighty eight, mum's eighty six. Mum's got dementia. Dad's
Speaker 3: doing Dad's still got all his faculties and he's looking
Speaker 3: after her. But what it means is he can't have
Speaker 3: a conversation with her because she can't keep.
Speaker 2: A thought in her head.
Speaker 3: She's still fine, she still potters around the house and stuff,
Speaker 3: but he can't have a.
Speaker 2: Conversation with her.
Speaker 3: So I have to make an effort to make sure
Speaker 3: that I talk to him so that he's got someone
Speaker 3: to just discuss everyday life things with because he doesn't
Speaker 3: have that. He's effectively isolated, even though he's living in
Speaker 3: a home with the woman that he's loved his entire life.
Speaker 2: Because of that reason, you need to have interaction with people.
Speaker 3: And yeah, this is the reason people go to the foot,
Speaker 3: isn't it so that you can cheer when there's a
Speaker 3: goal with all these tens of thousands of people you
Speaker 3: don't know. Human beings want to be together with their tribe,
Speaker 3: together with people who they know, they think and feel
Speaker 3: and empathize with.
Speaker 2: We need that. That's that's why, that's part of why
Speaker 2: we're here on this earth.
Speaker 3: We need that kinship of being with people who are
Speaker 3: like ours.
Speaker 1: I totally agree, I'm boring.
Speaker 2: Is this is this?
Speaker 1: No? No, this is what this is. This is what
Speaker 1: we do on the year project. Do you know what
Speaker 1: I think I was going to say this to you?
Speaker 1: Off air listeners listeners. I'm opening the door. I was
Speaker 1: going to have this conversation with DD when we're done,
Speaker 1: but I'm going to have it now because I want
Speaker 1: to include you. This could be wildly inappropriate. I think you, like,
Speaker 1: it is so easy to do a podcast now. Right now,
Speaker 1: I know that you're doing The Boy in the gold Mine,
Speaker 1: which is a love project, and it's beautiful and it's amazing.
Speaker 1: And by the way, everybody, I'm full disclosed, I haven't
Speaker 1: listened to it, but I'm going to start to listen
Speaker 1: to it because I only just became aware of it.
Speaker 1: So I'm recommending you have a listener as well. But
Speaker 1: like I'm sitting in my office now, I am to
Speaker 1: view people every day all over the world, all kinds
Speaker 1: of people. We have meaningful dialogues like this, and it's
Speaker 1: so easy to you know, if you've got a decent
Speaker 1: a decent computer and a decent mic and a quiet room,
Speaker 1: you can do what I'm doing right now, and you're
Speaker 1: doing right now, and even like I'm listening to your
Speaker 1: audio and you're talking on your phone and the quality
Speaker 1: of the audio is amazing. Right, you need your own podcast,
Speaker 1: like one hour a day, Like I really think that
Speaker 1: you could. And just like with the You Project, we
Speaker 1: I've told this story many times for the first six
Speaker 1: hundred episodes. Six hundred by the way, I made fucking
Speaker 1: no dollars zero, and I loved it because I was
Speaker 1: it wouldn't it would take you nowhere near that, of course,
Speaker 1: but just building, you know, where you get to the
Speaker 1: point where, oh, I know how to do this now
Speaker 1: I understand the process and the science and the tech
Speaker 1: and the you know, the whole you know. I just
Speaker 1: think that it would be great for you to have
Speaker 1: your own and whether or not it was once a
Speaker 1: week or you know, three days a week or seven
Speaker 1: days a week, or you record a bunch of shows
Speaker 1: on one day and then take the I just think
Speaker 1: with your skills and your communication, and also, if I'm
Speaker 1: being honest, I think of all the fucking people you know.
Speaker 1: I mean, you could do a year of programs just
Speaker 1: off the people that you personally know.
Speaker 2: Do you know what?
Speaker 1: And like one of the things that as I'm sitting
Speaker 1: listening to you and you you don't know how this
Speaker 1: show works, right, So I'm telling you in real time
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't involve the listeners, but fuck it, everyone just
Speaker 1: lean in.
Speaker 2: Oh gee, that makes them feel special. Fucked a lot
Speaker 2: of you.
Speaker 3: Craig is just going to go broke and see whatever
Speaker 3: he wants his show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. Have you ever said have you ever
Speaker 1: said fuck on a podcast or any broadcast?
Speaker 2: Oh yes I have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no I'm terrible and yeah I've done some very
Speaker 3: inappropriate things.
Speaker 2: But don't tell anyone.
Speaker 1: But it's like, I have regulars on the show, so
Speaker 1: we have people that so we have all our unique
Speaker 1: guests that come like this is your first time. But
Speaker 1: I also have a bunch of people who are really
Speaker 1: good at what they do when they come on once
Speaker 1: a month or once a fortnight or once every two months.
Speaker 1: So I have a guy that comes on every fortnight
Speaker 1: and we loosely talk about technology. And there's a guy
Speaker 1: called David Gillespie who's a maybe Australia's biggest selling author,
Speaker 1: who wrote A Sweet Poison and a myriad of other
Speaker 1: great books. He's a lawyer by qualification. He comes on
Speaker 1: once every two weeks. He's brilliant. But yeah, I just
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if you miss being
Speaker 1: on mic and talking to people, But if anyone's ready
Speaker 1: to just step into this space and kill it quite quickly.
Speaker 1: And I know that's not what you're about, but you
Speaker 1: could definitely do something from home. You don't have to
Speaker 1: go anywhere. It'd be I can organize someone to help
Speaker 1: you sort the tech and the production quite easily for
Speaker 1: fuck all, you know. So anyway, that's my thoughts. Have
Speaker 1: you thought about doing your own thing.
Speaker 2: I've never been very comfortable with the spotlight being on me,
Speaker 2: which I know it wouldn't be because I'd be speaking
Speaker 2: to different people.
Speaker 3: And firstly, I'm genuinely flattened by what you're saying. It
Speaker 3: kind of if I'm really being honest, it's like a
Speaker 3: little stab in my heart thinking what you're describing is
Speaker 3: me being doing what I was doing, being on radio,
Speaker 3: talking to people, understanding, listening to.
Speaker 2: Them, learning, giving my thoughts. That's what I was doing.
Speaker 3: And and you know, apologies to anyone if this sounds vulgar,
Speaker 3: but I was good at what I did.
Speaker 2: I was good at it, and thank you for about
Speaker 2: being though.
Speaker 1: But you still are like you're and I know you're
Speaker 1: not doing that right now, but it's like me gone,
Speaker 1: I was a good trainer now I'm still a really
Speaker 1: fucking good trainer, and I don't.
Speaker 3: Say something we're a good trainer, except you were mean
Speaker 3: sometimes to me.
Speaker 1: That's what made me a good trainer because you No,
Speaker 1: that may go because you were soft, bro. No, you're welcome. No, no, no.
Speaker 2: I did have very good abs.
Speaker 3: In fact, when I got do you remember I stopped
Speaker 3: coming to you because I got pregnant?
Speaker 2: In fact, I think I trained with you through my
Speaker 2: first pregnancy. But I can remember them in the.
Speaker 3: Birthing suite disapproving of my abs because they were too tight.
Speaker 3: They said you it was it was me And I
Speaker 3: actually tore right down the middle of my abs because
Speaker 3: it was too tight from.
Speaker 2: All the work you maybe do. How did we get
Speaker 2: around to that?
Speaker 1: So so what you're blaming me is your painful pregnancy.
Speaker 2: Was my fault. Yes, we got there.
Speaker 3: No, I'm listening to what you're saying, and maybe one day.
Speaker 2: I'm not quite there yet.
Speaker 3: So I've been really comfortable making the podcast that I've
Speaker 3: been making because it's about someone.
Speaker 2: It's a story, it's.
Speaker 3: It's a quest for me, it's a desire to see justice,
Speaker 3: to see an outcome.
Speaker 2: So that's why I've been okay doing that.
Speaker 3: And once it's done, or it reaches its natural conclusion.
Speaker 3: I will think about it because I miss talking to people,
Speaker 3: or no, I've always missed people talking to me. People
Speaker 3: always with radio would say to me my most recent
Speaker 3: radio show was three hours, and people would say, how
Speaker 3: do you get talk for three hours?
Speaker 2: And I would say, it's actually, that's not the hard part.
Speaker 2: The hard part.
Speaker 3: Is that you've got to listen for three hours and
Speaker 3: don't just be thinking about what you're going to say.
Speaker 2: You've got to listen to what people are saying to.
Speaker 3: You so you can respond a learn from them and
Speaker 3: have a proper conversation and keep the doors open. Let
Speaker 3: people talk to you that don't agree with you, because
Speaker 3: that's where the growth comes from.
Speaker 2: So Craig, one day, maybe I will.
Speaker 3: I do have a recording desk I've got I don't
Speaker 3: have a mic, but yeah, I have the means to
Speaker 3: do it. I just at the moment, I haven't got
Speaker 3: the will to do it because I'm still even though
Speaker 3: it's two years, i still.
Speaker 2: Feel like I.
Speaker 3: Was effectively told by a bunch of faceless men in
Speaker 3: another capital city that I wasn't good enough, And.
Speaker 2: Even though in my heart I know they were wrong.
Speaker 3: I'm still stung by that. There's probably a little part
Speaker 3: of that is still in me thinking you're not good enough,
Speaker 3: and I need to get over that. I need to
Speaker 3: make the podcasts that I've done enough of a success
Speaker 3: and it has been going well.
Speaker 1: And.
Speaker 3: That will help me reach the point that you're encouraging
Speaker 3: me to step toward.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, maybe I just think you And this is
Speaker 1: not me trying to make you feel good, like I've
Speaker 1: I've worked with you on radio little tiny bit at
Speaker 1: gold FM, Yeah, very very you know, I'd stick my
Speaker 1: face in every now and then and we chat. But
Speaker 1: you know, you're not You're not pretty good at it.
Speaker 1: You're like literally the best you know and that skill
Speaker 1: and that knowledge doesn't go away, like and you don't need,
Speaker 1: you don't need the approval of people you don't know.
Speaker 1: And this is such a human thing, is that one
Speaker 1: hundred people go you're great, and one funck with goes
Speaker 1: you're not. And we give all our power to the
Speaker 1: one fuck with, you know, And so like when I
Speaker 1: I I've spoken about you to many people over the time,
Speaker 1: over my time and gone like you and Grubby and
Speaker 1: your heyday, you by yourself just fucking amazing and outstanding
Speaker 1: and that that doesn't go away. It's not like footy
Speaker 1: where you've got to use by date, you know, although
Speaker 1: some people who are the decision makers might think that.
Speaker 1: But yeah, anyway, I just said to everyone, I'm a
Speaker 1: free trying to be not but it is it. I
Speaker 1: want to go punch them in the face for you,
Speaker 1: but that probably won't. Can I just ask one thing
Speaker 1: pursuant to that, pursuant to that you're on it, not
Speaker 1: the face punching. Did you ever get did you ever
Speaker 1: get a did you ever get a rationale? It's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: well you're number one and you're killing it, but we're
Speaker 1: getting like, was there any you know, shudo explanation?
Speaker 3: Well, because the brave men who made the decision didn't
Speaker 3: have the bravery to actually tell me to my face,
Speaker 3: and like I said, they were in another city, I.
Speaker 2: Did make a call.
Speaker 3: And because you know, I think human beings we want,
Speaker 3: we need to process stuff, we need to understand. And
Speaker 3: I think that's why there is such an appetite for
Speaker 3: true crime at the moment, whether it's TV shows or
Speaker 3: podcasts or whatever.
Speaker 2: People are problem solvers. We need to go oh, why
Speaker 2: did that happen?
Speaker 3: We need to sort it out so that I think,
Speaker 3: I think it's almost like it's a big dress rehearsal.
Speaker 3: We're in our heads going, oh, if that happened to me,
Speaker 3: how would I deal with it?
Speaker 2: And so I needed to know why it had.
Speaker 3: Happened so that I could process it and move on,
Speaker 3: you know. If they were going I think I think
Speaker 3: probably what I wanted to hear was something along the
Speaker 3: lines of, oh, well, we've done some private research.
Speaker 2: And you've come up really badly.
Speaker 3: You know, it turns out that women between forty and
Speaker 3: fifty don't like listening to you. Or I wanted something
Speaker 3: and all that I had to ring them, and one
Speaker 3: of them.
Speaker 2: In particular, the best that he could give me was.
Speaker 3: We were all we were looking, you know, two years
Speaker 3: down the track and thinking, oh, you're part of our plans.
Speaker 3: Probably not so, I mean, that's not an explanation. No,
Speaker 3: I've never had an explanation, No one ever has. And
Speaker 3: I don't feel in clid to speak to them ever again.
Speaker 3: I'd love to, maybe one day down the track, speak
Speaker 3: to them and just ask one of them what.
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: One of the things crag that I and this was
Speaker 3: early and this was back with.
Speaker 2: The counselor that I spoke to. That I became clear
Speaker 2: on was I didn't do anything wrong.
Speaker 3: I didn't do anything wrong, and it can't have been
Speaker 3: based on there was never And I think that was
Speaker 3: probably something that was in the.
Speaker 2: Back of my mind.
Speaker 3: I thought, oh gosh, because it was quite a shock
Speaker 3: to people, and it was a shock to me, and
Speaker 3: it was a shock to the audience, and I thought, oh,
Speaker 3: I hope people don't think that.
Speaker 2: You know, there was some mysterious behind the scenes.
Speaker 3: You know, I'd been caught drink diving and they didn't
Speaker 3: like I don't drink for the record, you know that
Speaker 3: there was some terrible scandal and they'd had to swush
Speaker 3: me out of the building.
Speaker 2: There never was.
Speaker 3: There was literally nothing like I am such a goodiejoo shoes,
Speaker 3: I was such a hard worker, and.
Speaker 2: I've lost my train of thought.
Speaker 3: But I never had an explanation as to why it happened.
Speaker 3: But I was able to realize it was nothing that
Speaker 3: I did nothing, Yeah, it was it was just it
Speaker 3: looks can I put on my.
Speaker 1: Coach's hat and my friend and you might not like
Speaker 1: what I'm going to say?
Speaker 2: Oh no, don't make me cry, Yeah, God.
Speaker 1: They're not they're not thinking about you. You're taking too
Speaker 1: much about them, Like, fuck them, Like you're still hour
Speaker 1: like this, all this rumination and all this emotion and
Speaker 1: all this energy that you're investing in them. I understand it,
Speaker 1: but it's so fucking bad for you, all right, And
Speaker 1: you don't need to have a conversation with them. Fuck them.
Speaker 1: You need to find a way to put that in
Speaker 1: a big kind of treasure chest, walk it to the
Speaker 1: edge of an emotional cliff and throw that shit over.
Speaker 1: Easier said than done. And I know I sound like
Speaker 1: a fucking idiot, but yeah.
Speaker 2: Like unnecessarily angry Craig, You've got to calm that down.
Speaker 1: It makes me sad to see that you're so bothered
Speaker 1: by these people that whatever for whatever reason, you know,
Speaker 1: they don't know whatever, And it's but.
Speaker 3: At the same time, it's their business. It's their radio station.
Speaker 3: They're allowed to have working there who they want. They
Speaker 3: wanted to change the lineup, that's that's fine. If they
Speaker 3: wanted to do that, if they want to have someone
Speaker 3: different in there, that's their choice, and they can bear
Speaker 3: the consequences of whether they've made the right choice or not.
Speaker 2: For the record, No they didn't.
Speaker 1: But did the ratings go down when you left?
Speaker 2: Oh? They went down, Craig, and they're continuing to go down.
Speaker 2: But I won't dance on anyone's great. That would be unkind. Now, look, ironically.
Speaker 1: Bring that up at all, ironically, Three, I w suffering
Speaker 1: your jobs.
Speaker 2: Don't be mean. No, Look ironically my in my shift.
Speaker 3: And I don't know if this was the original plan
Speaker 3: or not, but the person who replaced me is actually
Speaker 3: a good friend of mine and a lovely guy. And
Speaker 3: he was very sweet and he ranged me and he
Speaker 3: and I fine, And it's you know, I bear no
Speaker 3: ill will at all toward him, toward him because he's
Speaker 3: doing the job he's been asked to do. He didn't
Speaker 3: make the decision. He's just been offered a position that
Speaker 3: you know I would grab with both hands. Not now
Speaker 3: he grabbed it with both hands. But yeah, that's a
Speaker 3: that's a weird already, isn't it.
Speaker 2: But yeah, no, look I'm letting it go. Well it has,
Speaker 2: it has. And the other point I will make is
Speaker 2: that time.
Speaker 3: I know it's a cliche, but time really does heal
Speaker 3: because peace by piece different.
Speaker 2: People, you know, it's been valuable for me talking to you.
Speaker 3: Every time I have a conversation like this, I take away,
Speaker 3: you know, a droplet or two of something that helps
Speaker 3: me process what I went through. And that again comes
Speaker 3: back to and this is something for everyone, the interaction.
Speaker 3: You know, every time you talk to someone or chat
Speaker 3: to a friend or ask someone how did they deal
Speaker 3: with something, you pick up something that helps you to
Speaker 3: deal with what you're going through in your life. So
Speaker 3: thank you for having me on today to work through stuff.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not trying to make you feel good when
Speaker 1: I say you're great at what you do.
Speaker 3: Now, No, I do ially love to be Craig as
Speaker 3: to come on, I've tell you.
Speaker 1: But that's sorry. Here deal with be right. Champ and
Speaker 1: I am both too old to do anything about it now.
Speaker 2: So I don't know how that happened. Look at us,
Speaker 2: We had.
Speaker 1: Our moment, didn't we once in the hallway when we crossed?
Speaker 1: All right, tell people once again the name of it
Speaker 1: that I'm fucking with you. Tell people the name of
Speaker 1: the show, and yes, and where they can follow you
Speaker 1: on socials and all that kind of stuff if you want.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, I've got my own socials, which is just
Speaker 3: at DD only the audience and Facebook, but the podcast,
Speaker 3: which I would love people to check out if you
Speaker 3: are interested in true crime.
Speaker 2: It's a really heart wrenching story. It's called The.
Speaker 3: Boy in the gold Mine and you'll find it on
Speaker 3: Insta at the Boy in the gold Mine. And also
Speaker 3: there's a Facebook page as well which has got lots
Speaker 3: of behind the scenes photographs and stuff of evidence and
Speaker 3: things that are part of the story. So thank you
Speaker 3: for allowing me to give that a mention because it's
Speaker 3: it's absolutely my passion at the moment.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm sure it's brilliant and we are. Yeah, jump
Speaker 1: on the face, Jump on our Facebook page when we
Speaker 1: have a new project Facebook page which we've got quite
Speaker 1: a lot of people on. If you have a listen
Speaker 1: to do D's potty, jump on there and give us
Speaker 1: a little bit of feedback. I'd love because I'm going
Speaker 1: to have a listen.
Speaker 2: Please be kind, clearly I'm vulnerable still no no.
Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, Well, you know it'll be honest. I'm
Speaker 1: sure it'll be positive. I'm going to have a listen
Speaker 1: over the weekend because I'm driving to see Ron and Mary,
Speaker 1: which is four hours in the car, so I'll consume
Speaker 1: a bit of it. Then we're going to say goodbye
Speaker 1: if Air you and I. But I love your guts
Speaker 1: and I'm so glad that you're in a better place.
Speaker 1: Albeit I think you and I still have some workshopping
Speaker 1: to do, and you enjoy the rest of your Thursday.
Speaker 2: Craig, and thank you. I'm so delighted for your success.
Speaker 2: You've always been such a positive presence in my life.
Speaker 3: Albeit we haven't been that close over the last few years,
Speaker 3: but I have such fond memories of training you with
Speaker 3: you plenty of life.
Speaker 2: You're a good guy. You're one of the good ones.
Speaker 2: You're a pure heart. So thank you for having me on.
Speaker 1: Thanks lovely,