WEBVTT - #1912 Rejection, Recovery and Reinvention - Dee Dee Dunleavy 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.520 Get a your bloody superstars, Welcome to another and Storming 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:06.360 and the Youth Projector's HAPs I'm excited. I'm excited because 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:08.119 I didn't have to do any prep. I didn't have 0:00:08.200 --> 0:00:10.799 to do any research. I didn't have to put on 0:00:10.800 --> 0:00:13.440 a party dress. I've got no fucking lippy or makeup 0:00:13.600 --> 0:00:16.680 because I've got a long time friend who I haven't 0:00:16.720 --> 0:00:19.520 seen for a long time. So I'm a shit friend. 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:23.720 But I'm trying to rekindle the relationship with your help listeners. 0:00:24.400 --> 0:00:26.280 So hi, dd oh. 0:00:26.200 --> 0:00:28.280 That's so hurtful. You know, I carry a picture of 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:32.199 you in my wallet every day. I like you. 0:00:33.720 --> 0:00:36.800 That's lovely what you just said, because you know, I 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:40.920 do various interviews and media appearances and stuff, and I'm 0:00:40.920 --> 0:00:44.400 a frantic prepper. I like to be over prepped for everything. 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:48.800 But today I was genuinely just feeling excitement, zero prep, 0:00:49.000 --> 0:00:51.000 just the thought of talking to you. I feel safe 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:53.360 in your hands, So don't let me down. 0:00:54.240 --> 0:00:58.240 Okay, and we'll do a podcast. Also, I mean, I 0:00:58.280 --> 0:01:02.360 think like you know me. I know you right, You're 0:01:02.400 --> 0:01:04.760 a little bit more You're a bit more organized, a 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:07.720 bit more pedantic than me. But I don't think you're 0:01:07.760 --> 0:01:09.399 not particularly OCD, are you. 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:13.600 I mean that shounds No, I'm just so organizer. 0:01:13.720 --> 0:01:17.720 Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, So whereas I it depends who 0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.119 it is. Like if I'm talking to somebody that I mean, 0:01:21.200 --> 0:01:23.400 I've literally I've told you, We've done nearly two thousand 0:01:23.440 --> 0:01:26.119 of these. I've had some conversations with people. And about 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.440 five minutes in, like, I had a conversation with this 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:32.039 guy who's maybe the smartest person in the world. His 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:36.880 name is Professor Ahmi Goswami. Right, is this beautiful Indian academic, 0:01:37.040 --> 0:01:41.200 spiritual teacher, guru, Like he lives at the intersection of 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:44.640 academia and research and wisdom and spirituality and the soul 0:01:44.720 --> 0:01:49.440 and the He's like, and I'm talking to him, and like, 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:52.520 this is not even me fucking around being funny. Five 0:01:52.640 --> 0:01:56.200 or six minutes in, I'm thinking to myself, I'm literally 0:01:56.280 --> 0:02:00.120 too dumb to have a conversation with this person. I 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.040 don't know, I don't know, I don't even know what 0:02:03.120 --> 0:02:06.520 to fucking ask him. I like, And so I said, 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:09.359 so I got about you know, I don't think I'm 0:02:09.360 --> 0:02:11.640 a complete dummy, but compared to him, I was a 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:15.840 fucking yaka, Right, And I said to him, Hey, prof, 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.600 I've got to admit something. And he goes, what you know, 0:02:18.680 --> 0:02:20.840 what's that, Craig? You know? And I said, I think 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:23.600 I'm too stupid to have a conversation with you. And 0:02:23.639 --> 0:02:25.880 he was so sweet and so nice, and he said, 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:30.160 somebody who's stupid wouldn't say that. I'm like, well, maybe, 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:33.000 but have you ever had a moment on an interview 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:35.000 where you've gone, fuck, I'm out of my depth or 0:02:35.040 --> 0:02:35.959 I don't know where to go? 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:38.640 Well before I answer that, you've got a hell of 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:40.639 a potty mouth on you, Craig Harp, But where did 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:43.360 that come from? Didn't used to swear that proper lady 0:02:43.520 --> 0:02:44.520 like me back in the day. 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.640 What your answer to him? Your response to him? 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:51.680 And I'm not going to listen to your response about 0:02:51.680 --> 0:02:53.359 having a potty mouth because I see you having a 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:55.520 sip of water and I know you're watching you. 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:59.320 You know you know you've turned it wrong. No, seriously, 0:02:59.360 --> 0:03:00.359 I swear like a wolfing. 0:03:02.280 --> 0:03:04.720 I think your response to him was exactly what I 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.480 would have done. And you've always got to remember that 0:03:08.240 --> 0:03:10.280 you're probably not the dumbest person in the room, but 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:12.800 if you are, there's an opportunity to learn so don't 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:15.960 don't think of it in and I'm not calling you vain, 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:17.000 but don't think of it. 0:03:17.040 --> 0:03:19.120 Oh everyone's going to think I'm done because I can't 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:20.120 keep up with this guy. 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.280 You have to look at it as an opportunity to 0:03:23.360 --> 0:03:26.000 learn something, and you won't learn anything if you don't 0:03:26.040 --> 0:03:28.000 put your hand up and say, I actually didn't really 0:03:28.120 --> 0:03:31.400 understand your answer just then, or I'm not keeping up 0:03:31.400 --> 0:03:33.320 with you. Can you please tell me? And that's where 0:03:33.360 --> 0:03:35.720 you that's where you're going to learn something. And you 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:40.160 can almost bet that eighty ninety percent probably more of 0:03:40.200 --> 0:03:42.560 the people listening are thinking, oh, I'm so glad he 0:03:42.600 --> 0:03:44.240 asked that because I wasn't following either. 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:47.680 Yeah, yeah, I agree with you. It's like one of 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:49.800 my kind of rules is hang out with people who 0:03:49.920 --> 0:03:53.320 drag you up, you know, like when I'm training, like 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:55.200 the guy that I've been training with for the last 0:03:55.200 --> 0:03:58.480 fifteen years is better than me, stronger than me, you know, 0:03:58.560 --> 0:04:01.160 more gifted genetically than me. And I'm like, it's great 0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:03.840 because I'm never winning with him. Not that it's a comp, 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.080 but it's kind of a comp. But I'm never winning 0:04:06.480 --> 0:04:10.760 right now. I'm always coming second. But what it does 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:13.280 is being with and whether or not. That's like I 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:15.600 told you just before we went live. I'm doing my 0:04:16.320 --> 0:04:20.760 PhD at Monash and it's at this in this lab 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.159 called brain Park. What a great name, hey, brain Park. 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:28.159 So it's the Neuroscience Neuropsychology Laboratory. And when I started 0:04:28.200 --> 0:04:31.800 their dd oh my god. It's like going to a 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.239 country where you don't speak one word of the language 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:37.920 everyone else does and you're like, oh, by the way, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:39.320 I'm a hundred years old. 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:39.880 Fuck. 0:04:40.560 --> 0:04:44.600 So yeah, I think that especially when you get older, 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:47.159 right you and I are about the same age. When 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:49.719 you get older and putting yourself in a situation where 0:04:49.720 --> 0:04:55.159 you've got to keep learning and keep developing, and. 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:56.560 I think, sorry, I've talked over you. I can't help 0:04:56.600 --> 0:04:59.760 myself and get over excited. I also think a lot 0:04:59.800 --> 0:05:04.000 of people we feel inadequate for some reason I don't know, 0:05:04.040 --> 0:05:05.880 and it could be to do with social media, that 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:09.400 we're constantly comparing ourselves to what we see and hear 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:12.640 of other people and wondering are we up to scratch? 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:15.880 Are we're going to be liked as much? And this morning, 0:05:15.920 --> 0:05:18.680 actually I had to put I don't need to share 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:20.440 the deep details of what it was, but that it 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:22.440 was two people I had to put in touch with 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.960 each other, both of whom in their particular fields are 0:05:26.120 --> 0:05:31.560 absolute leaders and pillars and highly respected people. And when 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.560 I said to one, hey, you know, you're okay to 0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:36.600 make a call to the other person, one of them 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:40.080 sent me a thing saying, Oh, I'm having imposter syndrome. 0:05:40.120 --> 0:05:42.560 I don't know that I'm up to the other person's 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:43.839 level to speak to them. 0:05:44.600 --> 0:05:47.800 And you know, it just it surprised me. 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:51.039 Because it was somebody who I respect and defer to 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:52.040 their great knowledge of. 0:05:51.960 --> 0:05:53.239 Their particular topics. 0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:56.839 So I think that just tells us even the most 0:05:56.920 --> 0:06:00.320 successful people are probably thinking that they're not as good 0:06:01.120 --> 0:06:02.599 as the person next to them. 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:06.159 You know, it's just human nature, I. 0:06:06.560 --> 0:06:10.839 Think one I totally agree. I think even more than that, maybe, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.920 like some of the most successful in inverted commas from 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.400 the outside looking in, some of the most successful people 0:06:17.440 --> 0:06:19.960 that I've chatted with or mentored or coached or met 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:24.040 or whatever more insecure than the average. 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:26.719 And it also comes back to what is success. 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:30.400 I was listening to a podcast the other day called Heavyweight, 0:06:30.560 --> 0:06:34.120 and it was a story about a guy who was friends. 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:35.680 With you know, Moby, and I don't know how to 0:06:35.720 --> 0:06:36.200 describe him. 0:06:36.279 --> 0:06:39.520 Is he a rapper, a musician, Moby who was pretty 0:06:39.520 --> 0:06:42.040 successful in his eye right, And this guy knew him 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:42.840 when he was young. 0:06:43.480 --> 0:06:45.320 And this guy had a. 0:06:45.320 --> 0:06:48.200 Set of CDs, told you how long ago it was 0:06:48.440 --> 0:06:51.479 of gospel music, you know, music that was recorded in 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:54.520 the Deep South, and he gave those CDs to Moby, 0:06:54.520 --> 0:06:57.240 who then sampled music from it and made big hits 0:06:57.240 --> 0:06:59.880 from it. And this guy was like, I'm not asking 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.960 of the credit, I just want my CDs back. Anyway, 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:06.359 they tracked down Moby and he's still very friendly to 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:10.440 this guy. And part of this guy's issue was that 0:07:11.000 --> 0:07:13.920 he felt as though he was doing an ordinary job 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:17.280 and that everyone in his life, including his childhood friend Moby, 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:22.119 had completely surpassed him. And so eventually tracked down Mobe 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:23.960 and this guy sits with him and talks to him, 0:07:24.000 --> 0:07:28.840 and Moby says, the most lonely and the most flat 0:07:28.880 --> 0:07:30.760 he ever felt in his life was when he was 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:34.320 in this extraordinary hotel room waiting to go out on 0:07:34.480 --> 0:07:36.840 stage at the Grammys and receive all the awards in 0:07:36.880 --> 0:07:39.120 the world, and everyone's fawning all our room, and your 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.920 great mate and he went back to this hotel room 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:43.520 and he said he just walked around. I think he 0:07:43.680 --> 0:07:47.200 maybe said he cried. He was alone. He just felt 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:52.880 so lonely. So my point being that everyone else watching 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:55.600 and seeing him and knowing his name would think, wow, 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:59.600 that guy's an incredible success, and yet he inside himself 0:08:00.480 --> 0:08:04.080 was just thinking what is this? You know, what what 0:08:04.120 --> 0:08:07.320 am I measuring? How my happiness is not great? What 0:08:07.360 --> 0:08:08.240 am I getting from this? 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:12.000 That is? Okay? So we're going to have a good chat, right, 0:08:12.080 --> 0:08:14.720 So I love this shit, right. I talk about what 0:08:14.720 --> 0:08:17.960 what is success a lot, and it's like, obviously success 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.040 is different things for different people. But yeah, it's so 0:08:21.160 --> 0:08:24.720 true that you can be in a crowd and lonely, 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:28.920 or you can be totally alone and not lonely. You know, 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.440 I live by myself and people like, don't you get lonely? 0:08:31.480 --> 0:08:34.760 And I go, I actually don't get lonely because when 0:08:34.960 --> 0:08:37.120 you know, within reason, whenever I want to talk to 0:08:37.160 --> 0:08:39.680 someone or have a coffee with someone, or you know, 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:42.439 I'm always doing this. I'm talking to people every day, 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:45.480 I'm having meetings. You know, there's a lot of interaction. 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:48.599 But then also it's my personality that I'm kind of 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.120 quite good on my own, but for a lot of 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:55.880 other people, my life would be intolerable for them based 0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:58.440 on how they work. And it's like, you think about 0:08:58.480 --> 0:09:01.960 your job for most of your life, being on air, 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:06.400 listened to by hundreds of thousands of people over the years, 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:11.320 millions and millions of people, and the MIC's on, and 0:09:11.360 --> 0:09:14.480 you're on air and be funny, be amusing, be entertaining, 0:09:14.600 --> 0:09:18.439 creating engagement, you know, like build rapport, and now you 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.280 finished like you could perform under a level of pressure 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:25.320 that most people couldn't deal with and you were in 0:09:25.360 --> 0:09:27.839 your element. But for someone else, your job would have 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:29.000 been a fucking nightmare. 0:09:30.440 --> 0:09:32.240 Yeah. Well that comes back to the prep thing. I 0:09:32.400 --> 0:09:34.720 was made sure I was over prepped. But this again 0:09:34.760 --> 0:09:37.040 comes back to the thing of success, because if you 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.680 just look at the data, by the measurement that we 0:09:40.720 --> 0:09:43.880 can look at of the figures, I was a success. 0:09:44.080 --> 0:09:46.840 I was number one in my time slot, and yet 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:49.480 the management and for people who aren't familiar with me, 0:09:49.559 --> 0:09:52.880 I've worked in radio for close to forty years and 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:56.719 was hosting an afternoon talk show on three OW, which 0:09:56.800 --> 0:09:57.200 is a. 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:59.360 Talkstation in Melbourne, and. 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:02.880 Doing well at it, Like It's taken me a long 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:06.720 time to actually I'm very bad at singing my own praises, 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:08.400 but I've had to learn how to do that to 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:12.000 actually state as fat here's what I achieved. Anyway, I 0:10:12.040 --> 0:10:17.439 achieved number one status, which was great. Yeah, and yet 0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:20.520 management still turned to me and said that they weren't 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:25.959 renewing my contract. So even though I had what probably 0:10:26.000 --> 0:10:28.920 appeared to be success, it wasn't enough to keep me 0:10:29.000 --> 0:10:34.560 in the job that I loved and lived for. So again, like, 0:10:34.760 --> 0:10:37.760 what is success? How do you measure? Where is it 0:10:37.760 --> 0:10:40.240 you're going? It's like, this is a stupid example, but 0:10:40.600 --> 0:10:44.120 in Bridget Jones's diary, she's got this goal weight, you know, 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.120 she diets and diets and diets and all the wrong 0:10:47.160 --> 0:10:49.000 things she does to get herself to a goal weight. 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:51.160 And she wakes up the next morning where she's hit 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:54.160 her goal weight and she's like, oh, everything's the same. 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:56.160 I still don't have the man that I want, and 0:10:56.520 --> 0:10:59.800 like nothing's different. So how do we all know what 0:11:00.160 --> 0:11:00.920 we're aiming for? 0:11:02.120 --> 0:11:07.280 I think there's this dichotomy between our external world. You know, 0:11:07.320 --> 0:11:15.600 what people see situation, circumstance, environment, brand, career, accolades, trophies, Grammys, money, 0:11:16.200 --> 0:11:21.200 you know, qualifications, podcast numbers, you know, all of that 0:11:21.280 --> 0:11:25.320 shit that everyone's aware of, and we somehow correlate all 0:11:25.360 --> 0:11:31.360 of those three dimensional, physical, visible things that the world 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.640 can pay attention to, we equate that with success. But 0:11:35.720 --> 0:11:38.440 as as you and I both know, you can be 0:11:38.480 --> 0:11:42.120 succeeding in inverted commas and miserable and lonely and disconnected 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:46.080 and medicated for anxiety and depression. Right, so, I think 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:50.000 the dichotomy is like for me, especially the last six 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.280 years with my research and beyond that just because I'm curious, 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:55.720 but it's like what needs to be happening in my 0:11:55.840 --> 0:12:02.760 internal world for success, Like what's the you know, psycho logical, emotional, sociological, 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:06.880 spiritual in a working of success, Like because you can 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:12.040 be in what seems to be a successful life like 0:12:12.080 --> 0:12:15.640 from the outside looking in success, but the inside out 0:12:15.720 --> 0:12:20.160 experience might be trauma or loneliness or sadness despite your 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:21.960 nice house and your nice bank balance. 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.560 Well, it's something that I've had to really focus on because, like, 0:12:27.800 --> 0:12:32.040 losing that job really hit me hard, and so it 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:36.720 forced me to first of all, just stop, take a breath, 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:39.640 try and recover from the stress and that's a whole 0:12:39.679 --> 0:12:42.280 separate story that I've been interested to ask you about 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.559 and dealing with stress, but then thinking. 0:12:46.679 --> 0:12:49.400 And sorry to like go all hairy theory on you, 0:12:49.520 --> 0:12:50.720 but I think you're probably up for. 0:12:50.720 --> 0:12:54.280 The conversation, but actually thinking what am I doing on 0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:57.120 this plan and what is my point of being here? 0:12:57.160 --> 0:12:58.600 And what do I want from it? 0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.920 And it honestly, it sounds it's like a cliche, but 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:04.440 it comes back to all of those very basic things. 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:08.080 The love of my husband, who I've been with for 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.440 many many years, like his love and my love I 0:13:11.480 --> 0:13:14.040 think deepened because he supported me so much through that. 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.200 The love of my children, the love of my family, 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:18.520 that's probably my number one. 0:13:18.360 --> 0:13:24.040 Thing in life. The realization that my friends are like this. 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:27.360 Giant blanket that's kind of in that next layer out 0:13:27.400 --> 0:13:30.600 beyond family, and that they are so important. It's like 0:13:31.120 --> 0:13:32.680 you may not speak to you, I haven't spoken to 0:13:32.720 --> 0:13:35.800 you for a long time, and yet I feel a 0:13:35.840 --> 0:13:37.839 friendship from you, like to know that you've got friends 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:39.960 who love and support you. And then there's all the 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.200 extra things. You start to think to yourself, you know, 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.720 what can I do for pleasure each day? My pleasure 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:49.280 is going for a long walk every morning. And you know, 0:13:49.320 --> 0:13:51.280 I'll sound like a crazy hippie, but just to be 0:13:51.360 --> 0:13:54.160 amongst trees and to be walking along next to the 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.520 river in the direction that the water is flowing, that 0:13:57.760 --> 0:13:59.960 somehow energizes me. I love to go out into my 0:14:00.080 --> 0:14:02.560 garden and plant things and grow them. I've got chickens. 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.640 I love to watch them running around the garden like 0:14:04.760 --> 0:14:08.400 I derive so much pleasure from those simple things. I 0:14:08.440 --> 0:14:10.520 love to cook a beautiful meal for my husband when 0:14:10.520 --> 0:14:14.080 he comes home and we enjoy that together. Those things 0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:18.440 that are so simple that anyone can have. Those are 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:23.280 the things that nourish me and make me feel energized. 0:14:23.680 --> 0:14:28.120 And come back to that word again, I feel successful 0:14:28.160 --> 0:14:31.040 in my life because I am lucky enough to have 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:32.720 all of those things in my life. 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:33.600 Yeah. 0:14:33.680 --> 0:14:35.520 Yeah, Can I ask you a question? 0:14:36.160 --> 0:14:36.720 Yeah? Sure. 0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:40.040 So when I lost my job, it was quite well, look, 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.240 it made headlines and it was a bit of a splash, 0:14:43.280 --> 0:14:47.960 and I literally retreated into a hole in my home. 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:53.160 I didn't leave the house. I was humiliated and devastated 0:14:53.240 --> 0:14:56.320 because it was what I loved doing. And I would 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.360 feel this stress that kept me awake for quite a 0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:01.840 few nights but well, you know, you wake in the 0:15:01.960 --> 0:15:04.920 night and your stomach sinks again. You know you've forgotten 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:06.800 that something bad has happened, and then your brain brain 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:08.520 It's like when your footy team loses, you know, and 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:10.680 you wake up the next morning, Oh yeah we lost. 0:15:11.600 --> 0:15:13.520 So I was having that the whole time. 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:19.480 Oh please, I still love them, even though they break 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:20.680 my heart all the time. 0:15:21.120 --> 0:15:25.560 But I would get this waves of stress. 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.880 And you know that expression, you know you shit yourself, 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.280 but there isn't There is a feeling and I don't 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.520 mean I shap myself, but there's a feeling where it 0:15:33.680 --> 0:15:36.440 sort of washes over you and you feel it go 0:15:36.640 --> 0:15:39.760 right to your fingertips. And I remember thinking to myself, 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.680 this can't be good for my physical body. This is 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.080 not good for me to have. Whatever it is, it's 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:47.600 rushing through me. 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:49.280 Like I don't know. 0:15:49.320 --> 0:15:52.240 I've never been a drug taker, but I imagine when 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:55.440 drug takers take a shot of something, it's that feeling. 0:15:55.480 --> 0:15:58.800 It will literally, you know, it makes your stomach drop, 0:15:58.840 --> 0:15:59.320 It makes you. 0:15:59.360 --> 0:16:01.200 Feel like you want to rush to the toilet, It 0:16:01.240 --> 0:16:02.560 makes your fingers tingle. 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:04.800 How do you get rid of that? 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.720 Craig, Yeah, yeah, yeah, So let me. Can I just 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:11.600 come from a few angles and then if I don't 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:14.800 tick the right box, let me know. And I'm glad 0:16:14.800 --> 0:16:18.120 you opened the woo woo door, because I think I've 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:21.480 been kind of successful. You've been kind of successful. Depends 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:23.520 on how you know, Like in my career, I've done 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.680 pretty well, you've done pretty well. Go us. Does that 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:28.320 mean you and I are going to be happy and 0:16:28.360 --> 0:16:30.880 never anxious? And that doesn't mean that at all? We could, 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:34.720 you know. So one doesn't always equal the other, you know. 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:37.760 But that's how like you and I grew up in 0:16:37.760 --> 0:16:42.080 a collective culture and mindset that said, hey, Craig and 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.000 d D. Success is about all that shit that everyone 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:47.840 can see, right, and you tick the box and you 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:49.880 get the right weight, and you make the right money, 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:52.280 and you climb the right ladder and you drive the 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:54.000 right car and you're mixing the right and all of 0:16:54.000 --> 0:16:58.440 that and then you're s ccessful. And then as you know, 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:01.680 your Bridget Jones what's her name, Bridge of Jones reference, 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:03.880 it's like she woke up, she was in the dream body, 0:17:03.920 --> 0:17:07.520 and she was still probably lonely and disconnected and insecure 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:09.760 and all of those things. So one doesn't equal the other. 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.680 But I think what happens part of the So you're 0:17:13.720 --> 0:17:16.800 in radio, you're well known, you're flying, people love you, 0:17:16.800 --> 0:17:19.680 you're show's rating, it's ass off. You're good. You're really 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.240 fucking good at what you do. And that's not accolades, 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:28.280 that's just data, Like we can literally prove statistically that 0:17:28.320 --> 0:17:31.080 you're good. Right, So that's not even that's not even 0:17:31.080 --> 0:17:33.880 an idea or a suggestion. That's just like, well, can 0:17:33.880 --> 0:17:35.920 we look at the can we look at the numbers? 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:37.960 Can we look at the ratings? We sure can't. Okay, 0:17:38.040 --> 0:17:41.520 she's on top. Well, she's fucking good. So that's you know. 0:17:42.080 --> 0:17:45.440 But then one of the challenges for us is when 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.280 you're really good at something, you have your sense of 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:52.480 self intertwined with that thing that you do. Yes, so 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:56.160 it becomes part of your identity and you're you're in 0:17:56.200 --> 0:17:59.719 that I am it's an im statement. I am a broadcaster, 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:02.720 I am a journalist, I am I am I am. 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.240 And then somebody takes that away from you when you 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:08.359 weren't expecting it to go, and then you don't know 0:18:08.400 --> 0:18:11.199 who the fuck you are because if I'm not that 0:18:11.359 --> 0:18:13.320 who I am? Who am I? So that can be 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:17.040 part of it where who you are is intertwined with 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:19.400 what you do. And so one of the challenges from 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:24.399 a my PhD is largely about self awareness, but it 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:27.440 is trying to know who you are and understand who 0:18:27.480 --> 0:18:30.959 you are beyond what you do or what you look like, 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:32.600 or where you live, or what you have or what 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:34.800 people think you all the shit that you are not. 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:36.680 Like you have a body, and you have a brand, 0:18:36.720 --> 0:18:38.240 and you have a brand, and you have a car, 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:40.679 and you have a husband, and you have a track record. 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:42.560 You have all these things, but you're not any of that. 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:45.639 We need to figure out where's DD beyond all of 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:47.520 the shit that she's not. And this is a little 0:18:47.520 --> 0:18:51.240 bit you know, woo woo, you open the door, So 0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.560 I blame you. This is a little bit eckhart Toll, 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:55.040 who says, I. 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:56.080 That's victim blaming. 0:18:56.119 --> 0:19:02.160 Craighatha, I mean says, I'm the awareness of what I'm 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.919 not right, and that's kind of I'm the observer, like 0:19:05.000 --> 0:19:10.480 that's that heightened, elevated version of me seeing the me 0:19:10.600 --> 0:19:14.879 that operates in the world. And so then back to 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.200 your So there's that and you and I have seen that. 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:19.119 You know a lot of footballers now you and I 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:22.359 know footballers who have gotten the ass mid career what 0:19:22.440 --> 0:19:28.240 we thought was mid Korea, and then capitulated emotionally, mentally, 0:19:29.320 --> 0:19:32.159 socially where some and of course we're not going to 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:34.760 mention any names, but have gone from flying, making lots 0:19:34.800 --> 0:19:37.880 of dough, playing on the MCG, being very well known 0:19:38.000 --> 0:19:43.360 and doing well in that context, and then their life 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:46.359 falls apart on some level because they weren't equipped or 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:50.560 skilled or prepared for anything beyond football. Right, So there's 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:52.760 that there's a trying to figure out who we are. 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.720 And I think that when you get the sack, or 0:19:55.720 --> 0:19:59.119 when there's a big life change, you kind of do 0:19:59.240 --> 0:20:03.119 get to that what the fuck actually matters? Like what 0:20:03.320 --> 0:20:06.359 is really you know? I've got this lady who was 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:08.639 like my second mom. I grew up with her. I 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:11.359 had obviously my mum, but this lady who's my mum's 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:15.040 best friend, who was very much my second mom. And 0:20:15.080 --> 0:20:17.760 she passed away just before New Year, and I went 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:21.200 into hospital. She was a day or two away from 0:20:21.520 --> 0:20:24.920 the end, and I sat with her. Her name's Ray, 0:20:25.160 --> 0:20:29.800 and I sat with her and there was just me 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:31.359 and her in the room, and she was holding my 0:20:31.480 --> 0:20:35.159 arm and I was holding her, and in that moment, 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:40.320