WEBVTT - The interview that brought Amanda Keller to tears

0:00:08.520 --> 0:00:11.360
<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Something to Talk About the Stella Podcast. I'm

0:00:11.400 --> 0:00:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Sarah Lamarquin, your host and Stella's editor in chief. Every

0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:17.280
<v Speaker 1>week I sit down with some of the biggest names

0:00:17.280 --> 0:00:20.320
<v Speaker 1>in the country because when Australia's celebrities are ready to talk,

0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.880
<v Speaker 1>they come to Something to Talk About. It's Amanda Keller's

0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:27.080
<v Speaker 1>job to share snippets of her private life. For the

0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.520
<v Speaker 1>past nineteen years, she's co hosted a breakfast radio show

0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:35.000
<v Speaker 1>where she has laid bare many family details at times,

0:00:35.080 --> 0:00:37.680
<v Speaker 1>as she's the first to admit a little too many.

0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:41.120
<v Speaker 1>But there was something that Amanda kept secret for a

0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:45.000
<v Speaker 1>long time, and then late last year on her podcast,

0:00:45.360 --> 0:00:48.600
<v Speaker 1>Amanda revealed that her husband of thirty four years, Harley,

0:00:48.920 --> 0:00:51.880
<v Speaker 1>had been living with Parkinson's for the past six years.

0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.760
<v Speaker 1>As a confessed oversharer, this was one thing Amanda couldn't

0:00:56.760 --> 0:00:58.240
<v Speaker 1>share until she was ready.

0:00:58.480 --> 0:01:00.720
<v Speaker 2>And I'm really proud of how we are, well not

0:01:00.760 --> 0:01:02.920
<v Speaker 2>always how I try and navigate it with him, how

0:01:02.920 --> 0:01:05.640
<v Speaker 2>we are doing this as a team, and the fact

0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:07.200
<v Speaker 2>that we are a team. That's what we said, you

0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:12.200
<v Speaker 2>said on our anniversary, we said, aren't we lucky that

0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:14.840
<v Speaker 2>despite all the rest of it, that the nut of

0:01:14.920 --> 0:01:16.480
<v Speaker 2>love is still there.

0:01:17.800 --> 0:01:21.319
<v Speaker 1>On today's episode, Amanda joins me to talk about Harley,

0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:25.240
<v Speaker 1>their two adult sons, Jack and Liam, whether or not

0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.839
<v Speaker 1>she'll ever consider a role on television again, and why

0:01:28.920 --> 0:01:32.759
<v Speaker 1>she's forgiven Tom Gleeson, the man many believe robbed her

0:01:32.800 --> 0:01:41.759
<v Speaker 1>of a well deserved gold LOGI five years ago, Amanda Keller,

0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:43.240
<v Speaker 1>welcome to something to talk about.

0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:45.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm thrilled to be here. Hello. I wanted to.

0:01:45.920 --> 0:01:49.919
<v Speaker 1>Open our conversation by asking about something that is really

0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:54.120
<v Speaker 1>quite poignant. You revealed last year that your husband Harley,

0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:58.840
<v Speaker 1>had been diagnosed with Parkinson's around six years earlier. Do

0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.120
<v Speaker 1>you mind if I start by not at all how

0:02:01.160 --> 0:02:04.320
<v Speaker 1>you're all doing, How you're doing, of course, how Harlee's doing,

0:02:04.360 --> 0:02:05.320
<v Speaker 1>in your two sons.

0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:07.640
<v Speaker 2>I've bought a tissue just in case, because every time

0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I talk about it, sometimes I'm fine, and sometimes it

0:02:09.680 --> 0:02:15.480
<v Speaker 2>gets a bit overwhelming. Look, Harley's quite remarkable. He's so

0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:20.440
<v Speaker 2>pragmatic with this. He just gets on with it. And

0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:25.600
<v Speaker 2>I've gone through a phase of being angry because I'd

0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.240
<v Speaker 2>say things like, oh, come on, stand upright, or your voice.

0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:30.040
<v Speaker 2>You know, I knew what was it he'd been diagnosed.

0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:33.040
<v Speaker 2>I knew what was going on, but I found it

0:02:33.080 --> 0:02:35.639
<v Speaker 2>hard to accept it all. And I just feel now

0:02:36.680 --> 0:02:38.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm very much on the path of acceptance, or that

0:02:38.880 --> 0:02:42.760
<v Speaker 2>radical acceptance as we speak about. Some days that's a

0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:45.320
<v Speaker 2>phrase that I'm trying to live and other days I

0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.120
<v Speaker 2>do feel it. But we're both on the same page now.

0:02:49.200 --> 0:02:52.079
<v Speaker 2>I think for a while I was kind of fighting it.

0:02:53.120 --> 0:02:58.560
<v Speaker 2>And as I said, Harley is quite remarkable in his

0:02:58.639 --> 0:03:01.680
<v Speaker 2>approach to this, and because of that, the boys just

0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:03.560
<v Speaker 2>get on with it. To our sons, it's hard for

0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.200
<v Speaker 2>them because they don't live at home anymore. And I

0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.840
<v Speaker 2>see Harley every day. And was my son's twenty first birthday,

0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:11.079
<v Speaker 2>and I got very emotional talking on air about how

0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:13.840
<v Speaker 2>it felt to be going to that without him, and

0:03:13.880 --> 0:03:16.120
<v Speaker 2>how he is normally the archivist of our lives and

0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.040
<v Speaker 2>he would have done the audio visuals and he would

0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:20.160
<v Speaker 2>have done a speech and all of this. I just

0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.200
<v Speaker 2>felt wrong that I was going without him. And then

0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:27.399
<v Speaker 2>not long into the evening, my friend said, Harley's here,

0:03:28.480 --> 0:03:33.560
<v Speaker 2>and as a surprise, he'd organized with a friend and

0:03:33.600 --> 0:03:36.960
<v Speaker 2>a driver to get him there. And I still feel

0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:39.120
<v Speaker 2>very emotional about it because I thought he I know

0:03:39.240 --> 0:03:41.480
<v Speaker 2>how hard it was for him to do that, but

0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:44.600
<v Speaker 2>how amazing that he did, How amazing that he did,

0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:48.160
<v Speaker 2>And in that moment, I think the love I had

0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:51.400
<v Speaker 2>for him and for our family. I just thought, he's

0:03:51.400 --> 0:03:54.240
<v Speaker 2>still him, and he is still him, and the other

0:03:54.280 --> 0:03:56.440
<v Speaker 2>physical things are going on around it, but the heart

0:03:56.480 --> 0:03:58.040
<v Speaker 2>of him is still him, and the brain of him

0:03:58.120 --> 0:04:01.200
<v Speaker 2>is still him, and it was a great reminder. So

0:04:01.200 --> 0:04:02.960
<v Speaker 2>some other people were shock because I hadn't seen him

0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.000
<v Speaker 2>for a while, but I was just so proud that

0:04:06.040 --> 0:04:09.720
<v Speaker 2>he was vanity free. He thought, it's too important for

0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.040
<v Speaker 2>me to be here, and the rest of it just

0:04:11.040 --> 0:04:11.600
<v Speaker 2>didn't matter.

0:04:12.000 --> 0:04:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Did your son Jack whose twenty first birthday did he know?

0:04:15.200 --> 0:04:16.400
<v Speaker 3>No, none of us was coming.

0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:20.320
<v Speaker 2>None of us knew, and so it was a wonderful

0:04:20.480 --> 0:04:22.359
<v Speaker 2>rush for all of us to have him there. So

0:04:22.440 --> 0:04:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Harley sayd for about an hour, was there for the speeches,

0:04:24.520 --> 0:04:26.520
<v Speaker 2>and friends come up to say hello to him, and

0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:28.560
<v Speaker 2>then he went home and then you know, the dancing

0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:32.400
<v Speaker 2>and the rest of it continued. But it was so important,

0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:36.479
<v Speaker 2>and I'm so grateful that he appreciate the importance. And

0:04:36.560 --> 0:04:38.400
<v Speaker 2>also the fact he didn't tell me he was coming

0:04:39.000 --> 0:04:40.440
<v Speaker 2>kind of gave me a night off because I would

0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:40.800
<v Speaker 2>have tried to.

0:04:40.920 --> 0:04:42.040
<v Speaker 3>That's my problem is I try.

0:04:41.880 --> 0:04:44.479
<v Speaker 2>And micromanage everything and make everything all right for everybody,

0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:46.880
<v Speaker 2>and this isn't going to be all right for everybody.

0:04:47.240 --> 0:04:52.720
<v Speaker 2>So I'm exhausting myself. So the fact that I could

0:04:52.720 --> 0:04:54.520
<v Speaker 2>turn up without having to think about how he was

0:04:54.560 --> 0:04:57.640
<v Speaker 2>going to get there made my night so much easier too.

0:04:58.320 --> 0:05:02.960
<v Speaker 1>What an amazing twenty four birthday gift you absolutely and

0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:04.840
<v Speaker 1>for him to say, how could I not be here?

0:05:05.520 --> 0:05:06.800
<v Speaker 3>That will stay with Jack forever.

0:05:06.839 --> 0:05:11.200
<v Speaker 1>I think every time there's a diagnosis in a family,

0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:14.719
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is, everyone is often on a really steep

0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:18.479
<v Speaker 1>learning curve, especially if it is something that you might

0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:21.920
<v Speaker 1>not necessarily have even thought very much about or known

0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.520
<v Speaker 1>very much about. Has it been, to put it mildly,

0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.720
<v Speaker 1>an incredibly steep learning curve for.

0:05:28.760 --> 0:05:32.800
<v Speaker 2>You, interestingly only through living through it. Harley's a big

0:05:32.839 --> 0:05:35.440
<v Speaker 2>science head, so he knew the science, he knew the story,

0:05:36.440 --> 0:05:40.280
<v Speaker 2>but he chose not to be doctor Google and some

0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:42.839
<v Speaker 2>friends at the beginning were saying, hey, here's some remedies

0:05:42.880 --> 0:05:45.160
<v Speaker 2>I've seen, and it was showing people at the very

0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:46.920
<v Speaker 2>tail end, and so he thought, I don't want those

0:05:46.920 --> 0:05:49.800
<v Speaker 2>images in my head, so neither us I've remained quite

0:05:49.800 --> 0:05:53.520
<v Speaker 2>pollannerish on this in that I haven't deep dived on

0:05:53.560 --> 0:05:57.000
<v Speaker 2>a medical story. I'm living it as it happens. And

0:05:57.080 --> 0:06:00.800
<v Speaker 2>part of that is choosing to be naive, almost like

0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:03.680
<v Speaker 2>taking the easy way out, because if you're going to

0:06:03.720 --> 0:06:06.040
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what preparedness does for you, apart from

0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:10.400
<v Speaker 2>panic you so probably to my detriment, because maybe I

0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.880
<v Speaker 2>should have been more prepared, but I'm learning as we go,

0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:16.240
<v Speaker 2>and neither of us need to know more than that

0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:16.800
<v Speaker 2>as we go.

0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, Gosh, can I just object to the words easy

0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:22.039
<v Speaker 1>way out?

0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:23.839
<v Speaker 3>There's no easy way out?

0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:26.599
<v Speaker 2>But I know what I'm like, and I'd be prone

0:06:26.640 --> 0:06:31.279
<v Speaker 2>to overthinking and panic and trying to fix things so

0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:34.240
<v Speaker 2>out of my control. And I saw a great woman.

0:06:34.240 --> 0:06:36.760
<v Speaker 2>I see this fantastic woman. She's a kinesiologist, but she's

0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:39.800
<v Speaker 2>a fabulous therapist. And she said to me very early on,

0:06:40.839 --> 0:06:44.480
<v Speaker 2>you're in a boat beside Harley. You can't paddle his boat,

0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:47.480
<v Speaker 2>and you take his agency away by trying to. Because

0:06:47.640 --> 0:06:49.680
<v Speaker 2>we'd had a similar conversation when my son left home

0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:52.280
<v Speaker 2>and I still want to cry about that too. She said,

0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:54.800
<v Speaker 2>you have to let his boat go. And I said,

0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:56.039
<v Speaker 2>can I be in the back of the boat, and

0:06:56.040 --> 0:06:57.839
<v Speaker 2>she said, you can be in the back of the boat,

0:06:58.120 --> 0:07:01.920
<v Speaker 2>but it's his, it's his shining light that's navigating it.

0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.080
<v Speaker 2>And it's kind of similar with Harley in a way

0:07:04.120 --> 0:07:07.160
<v Speaker 2>that I know I'm trying to I'm trying to make

0:07:07.200 --> 0:07:10.200
<v Speaker 2>everything right for everybody, and A, you can't because you'll

0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:13.240
<v Speaker 2>exhaust yourself, but B that's not what's right for everybody.

0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.080
<v Speaker 2>So it is that radical acceptance thing of I'm in

0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:18.200
<v Speaker 2>a boat alongside and she said to me, maybe all

0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.360
<v Speaker 2>you have to do is to love him, and psychologically

0:07:21.720 --> 0:07:25.000
<v Speaker 2>that makes so much sense, and that's harder to live

0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.120
<v Speaker 2>by sometimes, but that's there the thoughts I have in

0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:32.760
<v Speaker 2>my head of trying to be alongside him and not

0:07:32.840 --> 0:07:36.120
<v Speaker 2>be in his face and just let him deal it

0:07:36.160 --> 0:07:37.160
<v Speaker 2>with the grace that he is.

0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.400
<v Speaker 1>I think you've just given voice to and experience. So

0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:45.800
<v Speaker 1>many people would relate to Amanda, because that's I think.

0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.600
<v Speaker 1>While we use the word helpless, isn't it when somebody

0:07:48.640 --> 0:07:51.240
<v Speaker 1>we know is dealing with something that we can't make

0:07:51.320 --> 0:07:54.680
<v Speaker 1>better for them, and it is part of what is

0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:58.760
<v Speaker 1>so difficult, so difficult these situations in life that are

0:07:58.800 --> 0:07:59.679
<v Speaker 1>beyond our control.

0:08:00.000 --> 0:08:02.280
<v Speaker 2>I feel am I being selfish in not trying to

0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.160
<v Speaker 2>in today and not fixing it for him? Is it

0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:07.520
<v Speaker 2>okay just to be? And of course it is, and

0:08:07.560 --> 0:08:11.360
<v Speaker 2>he'd prefer that. So taking a step back for all

0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.080
<v Speaker 2>of us is something I'm trying to do.

0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:15.480
<v Speaker 1>Can I ask you a little bit? Are you and

0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:17.560
<v Speaker 1>Harley being married for a very long time?

0:08:17.600 --> 0:08:18.800
<v Speaker 3>Thirty four years? Yesterday?

0:08:19.000 --> 0:08:22.520
<v Speaker 1>Oh? Congratulations? Thirty four years? And that is an amazing

0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:26.880
<v Speaker 1>innings And every relationship, every long term relationship, every marriage

0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:32.000
<v Speaker 1>has its chapters, seasons eras as Taylor Swift, we'll probably

0:08:32.080 --> 0:08:33.640
<v Speaker 1>call it. I'm sure we'll hear a song about that

0:08:33.760 --> 0:08:37.640
<v Speaker 1>thirty four years from now. I imagine the different things that

0:08:37.679 --> 0:08:39.640
<v Speaker 1>you and Harley have been through, like a lot of

0:08:39.640 --> 0:08:44.320
<v Speaker 1>couples that you have children, you know, struggles with creating

0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.200
<v Speaker 1>a family. You know, they're struggling with infertility. Then you've

0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:50.360
<v Speaker 1>got young children, You've got periods where you're both dealing

0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:53.920
<v Speaker 1>with chaos at work or great times at work, extreme busyness.

0:08:54.040 --> 0:08:55.880
<v Speaker 1>I want to ask you a little bit. As you mentioned,

0:08:55.880 --> 0:08:57.720
<v Speaker 1>your boys aren't living at home now, you know, the

0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:02.719
<v Speaker 1>empty nest, this particular situation, what you have navigated this

0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:06.960
<v Speaker 1>past six years together with his diagnosis. Is that something

0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:11.760
<v Speaker 1>that has forged the partnership even more? And as the

0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.800
<v Speaker 1>second part of that question, do you think it's something

0:09:14.840 --> 0:09:18.680
<v Speaker 1>that you could have survived thirty four years ago, thirty

0:09:18.760 --> 0:09:19.400
<v Speaker 1>years ago.

0:09:19.320 --> 0:09:20.480
<v Speaker 3>Twenty four years ago.

0:09:20.720 --> 0:09:23.520
<v Speaker 2>I found a card the other day as a postcard

0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:27.400
<v Speaker 2>of two older people asleeping deck chairs with their mouths

0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:31.120
<v Speaker 2>might open on a cruise. And it must have been

0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:32.959
<v Speaker 2>very early in our relationship. I remember it used to

0:09:33.000 --> 0:09:35.920
<v Speaker 2>be on our window sill and before we got married,

0:09:36.320 --> 0:09:39.480
<v Speaker 2>and I said, here is mister and missus Harley Oliver,

0:09:39.920 --> 0:09:42.959
<v Speaker 2>forty years from now at the old People's Home. I'll

0:09:43.000 --> 0:09:45.000
<v Speaker 2>love you forever beyond two thousand, because we met it

0:09:45.000 --> 0:09:47.720
<v Speaker 2>beyond two thousand, and I suddenly thought, we're at thirty

0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:51.480
<v Speaker 2>four years. You click your fingers and you're there. And

0:09:51.520 --> 0:09:53.880
<v Speaker 2>I take great pride. I don't want to be too weepy,

0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:57.360
<v Speaker 2>but I take great pride in what we've navigated. And

0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I do think in a way a friend of mine,

0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:04.720
<v Speaker 2>I use the word there's a certain exquisite nature to

0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.559
<v Speaker 2>the love when it's like this, an exquisite in the

0:10:07.600 --> 0:10:09.120
<v Speaker 2>way it can be painful to life. You've got to

0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:11.680
<v Speaker 2>lose tooth and you're pressing. It's an exquisite pain, but

0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:16.079
<v Speaker 2>an exquisite love. And I'm really proud of how we are,

0:10:16.400 --> 0:10:18.760
<v Speaker 2>well not always how I try and navigate it with him,

0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:21.320
<v Speaker 2>how we are doing this as a team, and the

0:10:21.360 --> 0:10:23.120
<v Speaker 2>fact that we are a team. And so we said,

0:10:23.160 --> 0:10:27.959
<v Speaker 2>yes said in our anniversary we said, aren't we lucky

0:10:28.120 --> 0:10:31.400
<v Speaker 2>that despite all the rest of it, the nut of love.

0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:32.559
<v Speaker 3>Is still there?

0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.920
<v Speaker 2>And it probably have been times when you're too busy

0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:39.160
<v Speaker 2>to actually think about that, whereas we've really had to

0:10:39.240 --> 0:10:43.760
<v Speaker 2>choose that, and I know it is a choice and

0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:47.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't always express it. I can be impatient and

0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:50.480
<v Speaker 2>cranky and all those things with it, but the nut

0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:55.760
<v Speaker 2>of it is, I'm very conscious that we are leaning

0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.920
<v Speaker 2>in to who we are now and leaning into all

0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:01.520
<v Speaker 2>that this experienced through us, which isn't all terrible.

0:11:01.559 --> 0:11:03.120
<v Speaker 3>There's an absolute.

0:11:02.640 --> 0:11:08.040
<v Speaker 2>Tightness between us now and I'm sort of experiencing all

0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:08.319
<v Speaker 2>of it.

0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Speaking of exquisite love, which was a beautiful phrase that

0:11:13.280 --> 0:11:16.800
<v Speaker 1>you just used exquisite pain to mentioned your sons. So

0:11:16.840 --> 0:11:19.360
<v Speaker 1>of course, Jack, as we just talked about, turned twenty

0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.640
<v Speaker 1>one recently and Liam is twenty three just last week,

0:11:22.800 --> 0:11:24.880
<v Speaker 1>so the empty nest syndrome. I don't know what we're

0:11:24.920 --> 0:11:27.000
<v Speaker 1>calling it in twenty twenty four. You may have a

0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.520
<v Speaker 1>much more modern take on it. How are you and

0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Harley feeling about that side of things? You know?

0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.840
<v Speaker 2>I think the preparing for it and the imagining of

0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:40.840
<v Speaker 2>it is worse than the reality of it. Liam left

0:11:40.920 --> 0:11:44.080
<v Speaker 2>to go to new University in Newcastle four years ago,

0:11:44.600 --> 0:11:48.400
<v Speaker 2>and I found that hard, really hard. And then Jack

0:11:48.720 --> 0:11:51.839
<v Speaker 2>he went to live on campus but in Sydney, and

0:11:54.400 --> 0:11:57.319
<v Speaker 2>I thought I'd never get used to it. But Jack's

0:11:57.320 --> 0:11:59.600
<v Speaker 2>a party animal, and so meeting up at four in

0:11:59.640 --> 0:12:02.240
<v Speaker 2>the morning and him getting home at two kind of

0:12:02.320 --> 0:12:04.880
<v Speaker 2>had a slight clash to it. So to my shock,

0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.280
<v Speaker 2>I found that it was okay. I found that it

0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.640
<v Speaker 2>was okay. They're both now in Sydney. They don't, as

0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:14.800
<v Speaker 2>I said, they don't live at home, but I see

0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:16.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot more of Liam than I used to, and

0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Jack makes a real effort to and talk most days,

0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:24.640
<v Speaker 2>so I feel okay with it in a way I

0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:27.280
<v Speaker 2>never pictured. The boys went to a school where they

0:12:27.360 --> 0:12:30.480
<v Speaker 2>had an experience in year nine where they go away

0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:32.880
<v Speaker 2>for a whole term half a year.

0:12:32.920 --> 0:12:33.360
<v Speaker 3>Pretty much.

0:12:33.400 --> 0:12:37.560
<v Speaker 2>I think it was they have an outdoors education for

0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:38.319
<v Speaker 2>six months.

0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:39.439
<v Speaker 1>It's a long time.

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.160
<v Speaker 2>It's a long time, and it's when they're in year nine.

0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:44.640
<v Speaker 2>So how old are you in year nine? Thirteen forteen.

0:12:44.679 --> 0:12:47.240
<v Speaker 1>So my oldest son's in year nine, he's about to

0:12:47.280 --> 0:12:48.360
<v Speaker 1>turn fifteen years.

0:12:48.520 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 2>And I found that's so challenging because it's the first

0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.079
<v Speaker 2>time I had to put myself second to what was

0:12:54.120 --> 0:12:59.840
<v Speaker 2>good for them. And they were allowed to make phone.

0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.160
<v Speaker 2>There's no email, they had to write letters home, and

0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:05.240
<v Speaker 2>whether they having a good time or a bad time,

0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:07.200
<v Speaker 2>you weren't in charge. And I thought it was quite

0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.000
<v Speaker 2>profound because the whole point of it was that as

0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:14.199
<v Speaker 2>helicopter parents, suddenly the kids could prove themselves with each

0:13:14.240 --> 0:13:16.760
<v Speaker 2>other and start to look for camaraderie in each other

0:13:16.800 --> 0:13:19.319
<v Speaker 2>and strength that wasn't to do with your parents' perception

0:13:19.440 --> 0:13:22.560
<v Speaker 2>of you. I found it quite profound the experience that

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.000
<v Speaker 2>they had. But I found that really hard. And that's

0:13:26.040 --> 0:13:28.600
<v Speaker 2>one because they leave. There is so little when they go,

0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.800
<v Speaker 2>so I found that hard. And then the dreading. I

0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:35.440
<v Speaker 2>thought it'd be those emotions again when they actually left home,

0:13:35.640 --> 0:13:38.040
<v Speaker 2>but by the time they did, I was kind of

0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:40.600
<v Speaker 2>ready for it. And now I'm so used to it,

0:13:40.920 --> 0:13:42.920
<v Speaker 2>and now I can just go to bed early. I

0:13:42.920 --> 0:13:45.079
<v Speaker 2>don't have to think about it anyone. You know, Harley's okay,

0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:49.160
<v Speaker 2>I'm okay the end. So it's shockingly it's okay.

0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 1>My boys are turning thirteen and fifteen, so.

0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.200
<v Speaker 2>You can't imagine when they're that age. You can't imagine

0:13:54.200 --> 0:13:56.040
<v Speaker 2>a moment where they're not in your care.

0:13:56.320 --> 0:13:58.800
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, when you said six months, I know though I

0:13:58.840 --> 0:14:02.199
<v Speaker 1>was six months, because even a night feels like somehow.

0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.480
<v Speaker 2>And I always embarrassed him because I cry every time

0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.480
<v Speaker 2>I tell this story. But at one point we were

0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.000
<v Speaker 2>climbing up you have to the parents go and do

0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:12.280
<v Speaker 2>hikes with the kids a couple of times during that

0:14:12.559 --> 0:14:17.040
<v Speaker 2>and they're really hard going hikes. And at one point

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:18.679
<v Speaker 2>Lim said, I'll help you get to the top here,

0:14:19.400 --> 0:14:21.560
<v Speaker 2>and I had a flash to his very first day

0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:22.400
<v Speaker 2>of school.

0:14:22.640 --> 0:14:23.760
<v Speaker 3>We're at the top of the stairs.

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:24.840
<v Speaker 2>He said, I don't think I can do it, and

0:14:24.840 --> 0:14:26.480
<v Speaker 2>I said, come on, I'll help you out, and I

0:14:26.520 --> 0:14:29.480
<v Speaker 2>suddenly it was in a blink of an eye, which

0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.040
<v Speaker 2>swapped and he was my guide.

0:14:33.200 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 3>And that's the whole point of that whole experience.

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:40.080
<v Speaker 2>And I had it in that sentence, just amazing, trying.

0:14:39.960 --> 0:14:41.400
<v Speaker 3>To teary through all of that.

0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Obviously, it's at that moment where they over take you

0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:46.680
<v Speaker 1>in height.

0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:48.120
<v Speaker 3>Isn't that weird too?

0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:51.320
<v Speaker 2>That is weird because we express love for a small boy,

0:14:52.080 --> 0:14:56.160
<v Speaker 2>your children not being weird, but you know, cuddles and kisses,

0:14:57.040 --> 0:15:02.320
<v Speaker 2>and suddenly when they're men, it's a very different physical dynamic.

0:15:03.400 --> 0:15:04.880
<v Speaker 2>But the first time he's in a restaurant, I thought,

0:15:04.880 --> 0:15:07.000
<v Speaker 2>oh the wayters come behind me and it was Liam

0:15:07.000 --> 0:15:09.240
<v Speaker 2>and I was so shocked that it was my thirteen

0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:10.400
<v Speaker 2>year old who was taller than me.

0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 3>I got such a shock. And then that just keeps going,

0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:14.440
<v Speaker 3>going and going.

0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:18.080
<v Speaker 1>I listened recently to a voice message that one of

0:15:18.120 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 1>my sons had left, and I picked it up, and

0:15:21.040 --> 0:15:23.480
<v Speaker 1>if you ever had anything like this? He said, Oh

0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:28.440
<v Speaker 1>hi Mom, And I'm listening thinking who is this man?

0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:33.160
<v Speaker 1>It wasn't that boy's voice. So my younger boy, who's

0:15:33.160 --> 0:15:37.480
<v Speaker 1>still twelve, sounds very different. That's another moment in terms

0:15:36.400 --> 0:15:37.800
<v Speaker 1>of and.

0:15:37.760 --> 0:15:41.160
<v Speaker 2>I've always tried to be gracious and accept all those moments.

0:15:41.320 --> 0:15:45.680
<v Speaker 2>But also I lost my mom twenty years ago, and

0:15:45.720 --> 0:15:47.760
<v Speaker 2>I want to say to her because I just left home,

0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.560
<v Speaker 2>didn't look back, and I thought, did she feel like this?

0:15:50.720 --> 0:15:52.400
<v Speaker 3>And how I want to say? G I'm sorry.

0:15:52.400 --> 0:15:55.440
<v Speaker 2>I was so ungracious, you know, And because I thought

0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:56.960
<v Speaker 2>my life began when I left home, I thought, how

0:15:57.040 --> 0:15:59.360
<v Speaker 2>dare my son's lives be beginning after me?

0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:00.160
<v Speaker 3>How can that be?

0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:04.360
<v Speaker 2>So I try and remind myself to be gracious, and

0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:07.240
<v Speaker 2>if they don't return with text or something, I think, gee,

0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:09.240
<v Speaker 2>you know we went overseason, never kept in touch.

0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's so funny, isn't it looking back at those

0:16:12.280 --> 0:16:16.120
<v Speaker 1>moments and seeing it through that lens when you talk about,

0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.320
<v Speaker 1>you know, telling embarrassing stories. A lot of people parents

0:16:20.640 --> 0:16:25.560
<v Speaker 1>are now navigating the oversharing on social media. Conversation for you, Amanda,

0:16:25.600 --> 0:16:28.480
<v Speaker 1>you've worked in FM radio for a long time. Obviously

0:16:28.760 --> 0:16:31.920
<v Speaker 1>you're one half of Jonesy and Amanda the Breakfast Show

0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:36.040
<v Speaker 1>in Sydney, but you've worked for really all of their lives.

0:16:36.720 --> 0:16:39.800
<v Speaker 1>Were there moments in the pre social media era when

0:16:39.840 --> 0:16:42.120
<v Speaker 1>they were growing up where there were stories you're telling

0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:46.280
<v Speaker 1>me because everyone knows how that FM, particularly radio, for

0:16:46.320 --> 0:16:49.320
<v Speaker 1>their moments where you got pushback from them during that time.

0:16:49.600 --> 0:16:52.120
<v Speaker 2>It's so interesting because that's exactly what it is. You

0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.560
<v Speaker 2>mind your own life for moments to talk about that

0:16:55.680 --> 0:16:58.360
<v Speaker 2>might that other people are going through as well. When

0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:00.280
<v Speaker 2>the kids were little, you could say anything because they

0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.120
<v Speaker 2>didn't know and didn't care. But I did become aware

0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:06.840
<v Speaker 2>that you have to give some thought to other people

0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:09.639
<v Speaker 2>hearing these stories. And there's one in particular where and

0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:11.840
<v Speaker 2>here I am telling it again. But Jack's older now,

0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.800
<v Speaker 2>and who cares. I hope he doesn't. But I was

0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:16.439
<v Speaker 2>going through a school bag and there was a one

0:17:16.520 --> 0:17:18.720
<v Speaker 2>hundred sandwiches just squashed in the bottom. Week after we

0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.560
<v Speaker 2>could just smashed them all in the bottom, and I

0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:21.920
<v Speaker 2>took them all out and put them on the table

0:17:21.960 --> 0:17:23.600
<v Speaker 2>and I took a photo and I said I should

0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:25.520
<v Speaker 2>put this on social media. He said, oh, please, don't.

0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.840
<v Speaker 2>And I hate myself that I didn't. But I spoke

0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.720
<v Speaker 2>about it on air the next day and Harley said

0:17:33.760 --> 0:17:36.240
<v Speaker 2>he was driving Jack to school and Jack just put

0:17:36.280 --> 0:17:39.760
<v Speaker 2>his head against the back of the seat and closed

0:17:39.800 --> 0:17:42.960
<v Speaker 2>his eyes. And when I heard that, I just sobbed

0:17:43.000 --> 0:17:45.440
<v Speaker 2>and sobbed and sobbed, and I thought he deserves to

0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.520
<v Speaker 2>grow up in a house where he is safe from

0:17:49.119 --> 0:17:53.040
<v Speaker 2>public scrutiny in any way. I just felt so terrible.

0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:55.600
<v Speaker 2>So I knew he wanted. He was learning guitar. I

0:17:55.680 --> 0:17:58.520
<v Speaker 2>knew he wanted this little I think it was a ukulele.

0:17:58.680 --> 0:18:01.879
<v Speaker 2>No one bought him put on his bed. But the

0:18:01.920 --> 0:18:04.280
<v Speaker 2>best thing of all of this was not trying to

0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:09.600
<v Speaker 2>buy his acceptance, which was stupid. What happened was when

0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.080
<v Speaker 2>he came home from school. I just said, I'm so sorry,

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Please forgive me. I have no right to speak about

0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:17.480
<v Speaker 2>you in a way that doesn't make you comfortable. And

0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:19.840
<v Speaker 2>he said, that's okay, I don't mind, before he went upstairs,

0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:23.960
<v Speaker 2>and so I guiltily brought him a present, so he'd

0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:25.359
<v Speaker 2>said it.

0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:28.399
<v Speaker 1>Was okay before he saw I'd bribed him.

0:18:28.720 --> 0:18:31.520
<v Speaker 2>But that was such a valuable lesson to me. And

0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:33.320
<v Speaker 2>now I will say, do you mind if I talk

0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.639
<v Speaker 2>about this? To mind if I say this before I

0:18:35.760 --> 0:18:37.400
<v Speaker 2>talk about stuff about them?

0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.080
<v Speaker 3>And how did the ukulele go?

0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.120
<v Speaker 1>I realized that it was not necessary in the end,

0:18:42.200 --> 0:18:45.520
<v Speaker 1>because the good conversation, which of course is what all

0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.560
<v Speaker 1>of us learn, isn't it, as parents, the best moment.

0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:51.240
<v Speaker 1>So when you can go I'm really sorry, I stuffed up.

0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:52.199
<v Speaker 3>I'm stuffed up.

0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.800
<v Speaker 1>I'm such an important thing, that's it. I mean not

0:18:54.920 --> 0:18:56.840
<v Speaker 1>to be cliched about it. But that's such a gift,

0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.040
<v Speaker 1>isn't it for a parent to give a child, I think.

0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:03.119
<v Speaker 2>And for them also to forgive you as rather than

0:19:03.119 --> 0:19:04.679
<v Speaker 2>I just would have held a grudge. I was as

0:19:04.680 --> 0:19:07.520
<v Speaker 2>such a grudge holders if my mother ever admitted any

0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:10.320
<v Speaker 2>moment of weakness or guilt, I would have just been

0:19:10.400 --> 0:19:12.399
<v Speaker 2>surly about it, which he said, Oh, that's okay, and

0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:12.720
<v Speaker 2>that was the.

0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:15.879
<v Speaker 1>End of it. Coming up, Amanda opens up about her

0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:21.160
<v Speaker 1>new podcast and her multiple work husbands. Amanda, you are

0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:24.520
<v Speaker 1>now also hosting a podcast Double a Chattery with your

0:19:24.520 --> 0:19:29.240
<v Speaker 1>best friend Anita McGregor, where you talk about quote smart, dumb,

0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:33.159
<v Speaker 1>topical things. I love this because I don't know what

0:19:33.200 --> 0:19:36.360
<v Speaker 1>your observations are as somebody that's obviously been a consumer

0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:38.080
<v Speaker 1>of media like all of us your whole life, and

0:19:38.119 --> 0:19:40.280
<v Speaker 1>then worked in the media for a long time. Is

0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:45.000
<v Speaker 1>that these conversations about the serious and the trivial, the

0:19:45.119 --> 0:19:47.679
<v Speaker 1>light and the shade, as they used to call it,

0:19:47.720 --> 0:19:51.080
<v Speaker 1>still call it a newspaper world, is something that almost

0:19:51.119 --> 0:19:53.560
<v Speaker 1>every woman I know does in their own conversation. You

0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:57.640
<v Speaker 1>can be talking about really heavy, intense things, and then

0:19:57.800 --> 0:19:59.920
<v Speaker 1>a few minutes later it might be you know about

0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:03.280
<v Speaker 1>something that happened on the Sex and the City reboot,

0:20:03.480 --> 0:20:05.760
<v Speaker 1>or some gossip about Jennifer Lopez.

0:20:06.359 --> 0:20:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Because that's life, isn't it, And that's how it is. Well,

0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:12.040
<v Speaker 2>Anita and I. She's a forensic psychologist, which means that

0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.560
<v Speaker 2>she's a psychologist that works within I guess, the legal

0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:22.880
<v Speaker 2>or policing system. So she sees sex offenders, people who've

0:20:22.920 --> 0:20:25.520
<v Speaker 2>transgressed in a variety of ways, who are in front

0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.159
<v Speaker 2>of the courts, and she's a psychologist who sees them,

0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:31.080
<v Speaker 2>and she's also working at a university teaching this the court.

0:20:31.200 --> 0:20:34.400
<v Speaker 2>She runs a department, so she brings a very interesting

0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:36.440
<v Speaker 2>spin to things. And she and I have gone on

0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.040
<v Speaker 2>weekend walks for about fourteen years. We walk my dog,

0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:42.200
<v Speaker 2>and that's exactly as you're saying, Sarah, what our conversations are.

0:20:42.640 --> 0:20:45.840
<v Speaker 2>We'll say something incredible, she'll say something amazingly profound, like

0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:47.560
<v Speaker 2>oh my god, I hadn't thought of that, and then

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.439
<v Speaker 2>we'll talk about picking your nose or something ridiculous. So

0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:55.000
<v Speaker 2>we thought, other women like us are talking about this stuff.

0:20:55.359 --> 0:20:57.359
<v Speaker 2>And I thought, having worked in the media for a

0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.760
<v Speaker 2>long time and worked on FM radio, talk about certain

0:21:00.800 --> 0:21:03.040
<v Speaker 2>topics and for a certain period of time. It'd be

0:21:03.119 --> 0:21:06.160
<v Speaker 2>nice to see to have a longer chat about topics

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.320
<v Speaker 2>that Jones isn't necessarily interested in, but also that a

0:21:10.359 --> 0:21:14.280
<v Speaker 2>forensic psychologist brings a different skew to, for example, recently

0:21:14.440 --> 0:21:18.840
<v Speaker 2>the Bond Diijunction stabbings. As someone who sees who works

0:21:18.840 --> 0:21:21.679
<v Speaker 2>with perpetrators of domestic violence and violence of all kinds

0:21:22.359 --> 0:21:26.280
<v Speaker 2>her very kind. She's a very kind hearted person. Who said,

0:21:26.320 --> 0:21:28.920
<v Speaker 2>no one should be defined by their worst act. And

0:21:28.960 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 2>I said, well, what if your worst act is an

0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:32.280
<v Speaker 2>act of incredible violence against someone? She said, well, the

0:21:32.320 --> 0:21:34.679
<v Speaker 2>courts will determine that. She said, my job is to

0:21:34.720 --> 0:21:36.960
<v Speaker 2>work out why they're doing it and how they how

0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:39.440
<v Speaker 2>to stop them doing it. So she has huge compassion,

0:21:39.480 --> 0:21:41.400
<v Speaker 2>and she said, if we're just going to throw money

0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:43.600
<v Speaker 2>at the victims, we're just going to be pulling people

0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:47.560
<v Speaker 2>out downstream. Yes, we need to fund help for the victims,

0:21:47.600 --> 0:21:50.159
<v Speaker 2>but we also, she said, it's very unpopular thinking we

0:21:50.320 --> 0:21:52.880
<v Speaker 2>have to fund the perpetrators. We have to fund research

0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:54.800
<v Speaker 2>way up here. We have to look at who they are,

0:21:54.840 --> 0:21:58.120
<v Speaker 2>what they're doing. Why we have to spend our tax

0:21:58.160 --> 0:22:01.720
<v Speaker 2>dollars looking at the men? And she said, not everyone's

0:22:01.720 --> 0:22:03.480
<v Speaker 2>happy to hear that, but that was her experience, and

0:22:03.520 --> 0:22:05.800
<v Speaker 2>I thought, how great that we had this podcast to

0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.960
<v Speaker 2>talk about what her skew of this was when she

0:22:08.040 --> 0:22:10.920
<v Speaker 2>works with those people every day. So that's just one

0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.840
<v Speaker 2>example of stuff. But also being of a certain age we are,

0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:18.680
<v Speaker 2>we've done other topics on getting rid of your parents' stuff.

0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:22.680
<v Speaker 2>I think we're the first generation to not take our parents' stuff.

0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:25.280
<v Speaker 2>And when we all left home, we had to take

0:22:26.000 --> 0:22:30.000
<v Speaker 2>Auntie Mabel's dining room table and this and that. Now

0:22:30.680 --> 0:22:34.320
<v Speaker 2>people are living, are buying their own furniture, lighter, cheaper furniture,

0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:37.680
<v Speaker 2>They're moving around more. They don't want grandma's old dining

0:22:37.800 --> 0:22:40.359
<v Speaker 2>table or the corner table that just sits there and

0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:42.520
<v Speaker 2>doesn't really get used. There's no obligation to take it.

0:22:43.119 --> 0:22:45.840
<v Speaker 2>And parents are downsizing and no one wants their stuff.

0:22:46.000 --> 0:22:47.800
<v Speaker 2>So we kind of look at a variety of age

0:22:47.800 --> 0:22:49.040
<v Speaker 2>related things as well.

0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:52.440
<v Speaker 1>I mean, those two are very different and fascinating topics.

0:22:52.480 --> 0:22:54.800
<v Speaker 1>So you find my imagine you've already done this, but

0:22:54.960 --> 0:22:57.600
<v Speaker 1>working in radio for so long, but do you find

0:22:57.640 --> 0:22:59.960
<v Speaker 1>that you're both sending yourself little notes in the middle

0:23:00.040 --> 0:23:02.919
<v Speaker 1>of the night, writing something down. Something happens that you

0:23:02.960 --> 0:23:05.400
<v Speaker 1>observe it and you think, oh, that's the thought, because

0:23:05.440 --> 0:23:08.359
<v Speaker 1>I imagine it was something like that that triggered that conversation.

0:23:08.440 --> 0:23:08.920
<v Speaker 3>Well, that's right.

0:23:08.960 --> 0:23:10.120
<v Speaker 2>I think it was an article I might have seen

0:23:10.119 --> 0:23:12.280
<v Speaker 2>in Washington Post or something. But often an I'll be

0:23:12.280 --> 0:23:14.840
<v Speaker 2>walking along and as I bend down to pick up

0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:17.680
<v Speaker 2>a dog pool, we'll have discussed something. I say, take

0:23:17.680 --> 0:23:19.600
<v Speaker 2>a note on your phone, and she'll send me a

0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:22.640
<v Speaker 2>note that'll make no sense apart from us to us.

0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:25.879
<v Speaker 2>That's this cryptic sentence. We both understand what we're talking about.

0:23:26.400 --> 0:23:28.400
<v Speaker 1>You do you ever have moments where you don't, because

0:23:28.440 --> 0:23:31.800
<v Speaker 1>I often send myself notes if i'm you know, like

0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:33.720
<v Speaker 1>in the car and I like send a voice to

0:23:33.800 --> 0:23:36.720
<v Speaker 1>text or whatever on earth that's called I clearly didn't

0:23:36.720 --> 0:23:38.399
<v Speaker 1>work on beyond two thousand and a man, because I'm

0:23:38.400 --> 0:23:41.080
<v Speaker 1>still struggling with what's that thing called where you're putting

0:23:41.119 --> 0:23:43.640
<v Speaker 1>words in a thing. And then I'll get home it'll

0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:47.000
<v Speaker 1>be something like and I'll think, what was I trying

0:23:47.000 --> 0:23:49.200
<v Speaker 1>to say? Because all I've had an idea for a

0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:51.919
<v Speaker 1>shoot or an interview or something, and then I'm like,

0:23:52.080 --> 0:23:55.119
<v Speaker 1>I have no idea what that jumble of letters I

0:23:55.200 --> 0:23:55.560
<v Speaker 1>do that.

0:23:55.480 --> 0:23:57.640
<v Speaker 2>Too, And I texted Anita just last week and said,

0:23:57.680 --> 0:23:59.040
<v Speaker 2>you know how I wrote that thing to you? Do

0:23:59.080 --> 0:24:01.800
<v Speaker 2>you remember what that means? Because yes, it left my

0:24:01.880 --> 0:24:02.840
<v Speaker 2>head long ago.

0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:08.040
<v Speaker 1>Working with Anita on this podcast on air. In radio

0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:10.440
<v Speaker 1>and TV, you have worked alongside a lot of men,

0:24:10.600 --> 0:24:15.040
<v Speaker 1>so mention Brendan Jones On Jonesy and Amanda Andrew Denton,

0:24:15.119 --> 0:24:19.199
<v Speaker 1>who's been a longtime collaborator on television, radio on the

0:24:19.240 --> 0:24:21.440
<v Speaker 1>Living Room. Of course, I've worked with a couple of

0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:24.480
<v Speaker 1>people that are very much in the stellar ecosystem, including

0:24:24.520 --> 0:24:28.280
<v Speaker 1>doctor Chris Brown and Barry Dubois. Is it nice to

0:24:28.440 --> 0:24:32.080
<v Speaker 1>work alongside a woman because I don't pretend to know

0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:34.840
<v Speaker 1>you very well, Amanna, but you are somebody that seems

0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.440
<v Speaker 1>like what we call terrible phrase, you know, a girl's girl,

0:24:37.960 --> 0:24:41.760
<v Speaker 1>and yet professionally you have found yourself in environments like

0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:43.879
<v Speaker 1>a lot of us, where you are working with a

0:24:43.920 --> 0:24:44.400
<v Speaker 1>lot of men.

0:24:44.600 --> 0:24:45.359
<v Speaker 3>That's true, wasn't it.

0:24:45.359 --> 0:24:48.760
<v Speaker 2>I hadn't even really thought about that, And it's interesting.

0:24:48.760 --> 0:24:50.840
<v Speaker 2>With the radio, I've always been grateful never had never

0:24:50.880 --> 0:24:52.480
<v Speaker 2>having to do that, he said. She said, kind of

0:24:52.600 --> 0:24:55.600
<v Speaker 2>radio or it's two girls topic and it's two boys topics.

0:24:55.840 --> 0:24:57.520
<v Speaker 2>We bring things to the table that we just think

0:24:57.560 --> 0:24:58.120
<v Speaker 2>are interesting.

0:24:59.200 --> 0:24:59.960
<v Speaker 3>But it is different.

0:25:00.040 --> 0:25:02.000
<v Speaker 2>I think to work with Anita because she and I

0:25:02.080 --> 0:25:05.800
<v Speaker 2>find things different different we find things interesting from a

0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:10.200
<v Speaker 2>different perspective, for the deep dive. FM radio doesn't always

0:25:10.240 --> 0:25:14.440
<v Speaker 2>allow the deep dive, which is what I enjoy about it,

0:25:15.440 --> 0:25:17.760
<v Speaker 2>and she and I have similar interest in the things

0:25:17.760 --> 0:25:20.479
<v Speaker 2>we read the things we glean, though she'll come at

0:25:20.520 --> 0:25:23.399
<v Speaker 2>it from a different perspective, so that's different to FM.

0:25:23.480 --> 0:25:24.040
<v Speaker 3>But you're right.

0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:26.920
<v Speaker 2>I often have been that had been the ring leader,

0:25:27.000 --> 0:25:29.240
<v Speaker 2>like in the living room. It's kind of the ring

0:25:29.320 --> 0:25:32.280
<v Speaker 2>leader of a crazy circus with those guys, and I

0:25:32.320 --> 0:25:34.800
<v Speaker 2>loved that role. But with Jonesy, I think we both

0:25:34.840 --> 0:25:37.800
<v Speaker 2>approach it the same way. It's funny that I was

0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:39.520
<v Speaker 2>talking to someone the other day and saying why I

0:25:39.520 --> 0:25:41.920
<v Speaker 2>think the show works is that he might say something

0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:44.560
<v Speaker 2>that will infuriate me, and I'll say, I mean, we're

0:25:44.640 --> 0:25:46.600
<v Speaker 2>very good friends, but he'll say something I say, oh god,

0:25:46.600 --> 0:25:49.080
<v Speaker 2>it's like such a nineteen eighties man, and yet I'll

0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 2>know that half our audience agree with him. So it's

0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:54.679
<v Speaker 2>good for me to also work with someone who's different

0:25:54.680 --> 0:25:57.080
<v Speaker 2>to me or different from me, as my mother would say,

0:25:57.840 --> 0:26:01.000
<v Speaker 2>so that the soup in between the two of us

0:26:01.160 --> 0:26:03.720
<v Speaker 2>hopefully covers more people than just me saying here's what

0:26:03.800 --> 0:26:05.280
<v Speaker 2>I think our show should be about and him saying

0:26:05.280 --> 0:26:07.080
<v Speaker 2>here's what I think it should be about. It's an

0:26:07.080 --> 0:26:09.840
<v Speaker 2>interesting mix of all those things.

0:26:10.359 --> 0:26:16.080
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, and also in this time where everyone's very antagonistic

0:26:16.200 --> 0:26:19.159
<v Speaker 1>and the political debate and the tone, partly because of

0:26:19.200 --> 0:26:21.159
<v Speaker 1>social media, but just there, it does seem to be

0:26:21.200 --> 0:26:24.200
<v Speaker 1>a lot of anger around a lot of what we

0:26:24.280 --> 0:26:27.399
<v Speaker 1>call quote unquote cancel culture is sometimes there's people raging

0:26:27.440 --> 0:26:29.960
<v Speaker 1>against each other and not giving each other the benefit

0:26:30.000 --> 0:26:33.440
<v Speaker 1>of the doubt. The conversation you were talking about earlier

0:26:33.440 --> 0:26:37.159
<v Speaker 1>that you and Anita had on the podcast about complicated

0:26:37.200 --> 0:26:42.080
<v Speaker 1>and often unpopular conversations about how do we stop perpetrators

0:26:42.119 --> 0:26:44.840
<v Speaker 1>of violence against twom and how do we come up

0:26:44.840 --> 0:26:47.760
<v Speaker 1>with solutions? And sometimes that is a lot more complex

0:26:47.880 --> 0:26:51.640
<v Speaker 1>than just saying, oh, I can't deal with this all

0:26:51.680 --> 0:26:54.000
<v Speaker 1>men o. The problem. It's actually, as you said and

0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:58.800
<v Speaker 1>Anita covered, investing money in really complicated solutions because that's

0:26:58.840 --> 0:26:59.800
<v Speaker 1>how things get better.

0:27:00.280 --> 0:27:02.240
<v Speaker 3>It's the same with our discourse.

0:27:01.800 --> 0:27:04.639
<v Speaker 1>Isn't it. If we don't allow that suit between.

0:27:04.320 --> 0:27:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Us and That's what's interesting about Anita because she has

0:27:06.640 --> 0:27:09.440
<v Speaker 2>no media background. She's not even aware that there should

0:27:09.440 --> 0:27:11.359
<v Speaker 2>be discourse, that we should have a different opinion, that

0:27:11.400 --> 0:27:13.960
<v Speaker 2>we should be all that early FM radio stuff. That

0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:16.240
<v Speaker 2>was you have to have different opinions, you have to

0:27:16.920 --> 0:27:19.080
<v Speaker 2>pick a topic that you both got to feel differently

0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:24.040
<v Speaker 2>about that she said, As I said earlier, I don't

0:27:24.080 --> 0:27:28.800
<v Speaker 2>do that kind of radio, but particularly with Anita, she's happy.

0:27:29.040 --> 0:27:31.359
<v Speaker 2>We're happy just to laugh and agree with everything we say.

0:27:31.720 --> 0:27:34.040
<v Speaker 2>I read this interesting book. I just loved it, and

0:27:34.080 --> 0:27:35.960
<v Speaker 2>we did it one of the podcasts on a book

0:27:36.040 --> 0:27:43.199
<v Speaker 2>called Doppelganger, and it's by Naomi Klein, who is a

0:27:43.440 --> 0:27:46.200
<v Speaker 2>fabulous writer. And she said that she often used to

0:27:46.200 --> 0:27:49.440
<v Speaker 2>be mistaken for Naomi Wolf, who is the beauty myth

0:27:49.440 --> 0:27:53.399
<v Speaker 2>and a very early feminist. And she said, Naomi Wolf

0:27:53.480 --> 0:27:59.520
<v Speaker 2>now has become an anti vaxxer, has become a right wing,

0:27:59.600 --> 0:28:03.760
<v Speaker 2>fully right wing kind of supporter. And she said, by

0:28:03.800 --> 0:28:06.399
<v Speaker 2>looking at their too divergent path, she said, is this

0:28:06.440 --> 0:28:08.800
<v Speaker 2>where society is now? And she looked at why she

0:28:08.840 --> 0:28:11.120
<v Speaker 2>thinks there's been this big schism, if that's the word

0:28:11.800 --> 0:28:14.119
<v Speaker 2>where it? Why is there no middle ground? And I

0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:15.679
<v Speaker 2>took a lot out of that book because I thought, I,

0:28:15.680 --> 0:28:18.600
<v Speaker 2>so as a broadcaster, it's very easy to define yourself

0:28:18.640 --> 0:28:19.800
<v Speaker 2>as not being something.

0:28:21.200 --> 0:28:22.280
<v Speaker 3>I'm not an anti vaxer.

0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:24.919
<v Speaker 2>Therefore, I don't want to hear you if you're an

0:28:24.960 --> 0:28:27.560
<v Speaker 2>anti vaxer, rather than tell me what your fears are

0:28:27.600 --> 0:28:30.440
<v Speaker 2>and it's rationally discussed, and so I kind of took

0:28:30.440 --> 0:28:32.600
<v Speaker 2>a lot from that as to maybe lead to lean

0:28:32.640 --> 0:28:33.879
<v Speaker 2>in a bit more. I know, when we had the

0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:39.760
<v Speaker 2>lulary Statement from the Heart and the referendum vote on air,

0:28:39.840 --> 0:28:42.760
<v Speaker 2>I thought, I don't actually want to interview people who

0:28:42.760 --> 0:28:46.640
<v Speaker 2>are voting no, and yet probably wish I should have,

0:28:46.880 --> 0:28:50.720
<v Speaker 2>because hearing people and being able to talk about this

0:28:50.800 --> 0:28:54.200
<v Speaker 2>stuff makes us all better rather than makes us less.

0:28:54.480 --> 0:28:55.760
<v Speaker 2>So I took a lot from that book.

0:28:55.800 --> 0:28:59.000
<v Speaker 1>Actually, Yeah, she's so right, isn't she? And I hadn't

0:28:59.000 --> 0:29:02.640
<v Speaker 1>thought about that schism of the two miomis and the

0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:06.320
<v Speaker 1>radicalization that come from intolerance as well, because if we

0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:10.680
<v Speaker 1>shout each other down and we deny people platforms, then

0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:13.240
<v Speaker 1>we're probably only in bolding.

0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:15.320
<v Speaker 2>Them, emboldening them. And that's what she said happened. She said,

0:29:15.360 --> 0:29:17.360
<v Speaker 2>there's a lot of valid She was very pro vaxed.

0:29:17.360 --> 0:29:19.320
<v Speaker 2>But she said, there's a lot of valid questions. People

0:29:19.320 --> 0:29:22.360
<v Speaker 2>were asking why do I my kids have to remask

0:29:22.440 --> 0:29:26.480
<v Speaker 2>in school why it is a vaccine okay for pregnant women.

0:29:26.600 --> 0:29:27.680
<v Speaker 3>But the minute any.

0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Questions were asked, the pro vaccine people just shut them down.

0:29:32.240 --> 0:29:34.880
<v Speaker 2>And so it was the anti vax movement who saw

0:29:34.920 --> 0:29:39.040
<v Speaker 2>a vacuum and for the worst of reasons, thought here's

0:29:39.080 --> 0:29:44.040
<v Speaker 2>a vulnerable opportunity and hijacked it. Really rather than so

0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:48.040
<v Speaker 2>if we had all very rationally discussed all as adults,

0:29:48.520 --> 0:29:50.520
<v Speaker 2>it may have been a different result. It was that

0:29:50.600 --> 0:29:55.240
<v Speaker 2>big soup in the middle that allowed everyone to radicalize.

0:29:55.880 --> 0:29:57.960
<v Speaker 1>And it's also, isn't it about those of us in

0:29:58.000 --> 0:30:02.920
<v Speaker 1>the media have a bit of gumption and accepting that

0:30:03.000 --> 0:30:07.680
<v Speaker 1>people might troll you for having a platform for complicated conversations.

0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:10.400
<v Speaker 1>I refer back to that podcast that you and Anita

0:30:10.480 --> 0:30:13.520
<v Speaker 1>had about maybe we do need to actually look at

0:30:13.560 --> 0:30:17.120
<v Speaker 1>some substantial funding for perpetrators and how we stop these

0:30:17.160 --> 0:30:22.240
<v Speaker 1>problems as well as supporting victims. Is that giving someone

0:30:22.240 --> 0:30:25.120
<v Speaker 1>a platform or airing their views is not the same

0:30:25.160 --> 0:30:26.880
<v Speaker 1>as endorsing those fears.

0:30:27.000 --> 0:30:29.600
<v Speaker 2>That's so true. I think my secret fear was if

0:30:29.640 --> 0:30:32.280
<v Speaker 2>they sound rational. I won't know how to argue it.

0:30:33.120 --> 0:30:35.440
<v Speaker 2>So it was my fear that I wouldn't be smart

0:30:35.560 --> 0:30:38.200
<v Speaker 2>or canny enough that I'm not lease sales, I wouldn't

0:30:38.240 --> 0:30:42.800
<v Speaker 2>have enough information to be able to counter what I

0:30:42.840 --> 0:30:45.960
<v Speaker 2>don't agree with. But maybe just allowing them to say

0:30:46.000 --> 0:30:50.400
<v Speaker 2>it you're right. It's not a complicit acceptance. It's just

0:30:50.400 --> 0:30:51.440
<v Speaker 2>saying here's your opinion.

0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:55.120
<v Speaker 1>And I think also what you've just nailed there to Amanda,

0:30:55.240 --> 0:30:56.920
<v Speaker 1>is that that's part of it is that we now

0:30:56.960 --> 0:30:59.440
<v Speaker 1>look at as a sport. And I'm saying this for.

0:30:59.440 --> 0:30:59.880
<v Speaker 2>All of us.

0:31:00.080 --> 0:31:01.680
<v Speaker 3>School is it's hard work.

0:31:01.480 --> 0:31:04.400
<v Speaker 1>To engage and listen and have your worldview challenge.

0:31:04.640 --> 0:31:05.480
<v Speaker 3>It really is.

0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:07.920
<v Speaker 2>But look at what's at stake when you look at

0:31:07.920 --> 0:31:12.560
<v Speaker 2>Trump's America. Look at what's at stake if we blindly follow.

0:31:14.240 --> 0:31:17.400
<v Speaker 1>And after the break, how Amanda really feels about Tom

0:31:17.440 --> 0:31:21.360
<v Speaker 1>Gleeson after that Gold Logi drama five years ago. So

0:31:21.400 --> 0:31:23.760
<v Speaker 1>we've talked about radio and the podcast, So talk a

0:31:23.760 --> 0:31:27.280
<v Speaker 1>little bit about TV. You as we talked about the

0:31:27.320 --> 0:31:30.520
<v Speaker 1>living Room, you also were co hosting Dancing with the

0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:33.720
<v Speaker 1>Stars for a few years there. Your profile on TV

0:31:34.040 --> 0:31:36.960
<v Speaker 1>was so huge, Amanda that you were nominated for a

0:31:36.960 --> 0:31:40.200
<v Speaker 1>Gold LOGI in twenty eighteen, missed out that year to

0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:43.880
<v Speaker 1>Grant Daniel You're Dancing with the Stars co host, and

0:31:43.920 --> 0:31:46.959
<v Speaker 1>then the following year, twenty nineteen, which of course was

0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:50.040
<v Speaker 1>the Tom Gleeson year. I mean Tom had played a

0:31:50.120 --> 0:31:53.320
<v Speaker 1>role obviously in campaigning for Grant Daniel the year prior,

0:31:53.800 --> 0:31:55.920
<v Speaker 1>just to bring our listeners up to speed who might

0:31:55.960 --> 0:31:58.280
<v Speaker 1>not follow logis as much as those of us in

0:31:58.320 --> 0:32:01.480
<v Speaker 1>the industry. And then of course in twenty nineteen, a

0:32:01.520 --> 0:32:04.120
<v Speaker 1>lot of people were really hoping that it would be

0:32:04.200 --> 0:32:07.920
<v Speaker 1>your year, and Tom actually was campaigning for himself to

0:32:07.960 --> 0:32:10.160
<v Speaker 1>sort of make a little bit of a point and

0:32:10.200 --> 0:32:13.320
<v Speaker 1>a joke. But you missed out on the Gold LOGI

0:32:13.400 --> 0:32:17.560
<v Speaker 1>that year. Five years later, What are your thoughts about that?

0:32:17.680 --> 0:32:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Whole time?

0:32:20.480 --> 0:32:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Tom and I have very much made out peace. He

0:32:22.960 --> 0:32:25.320
<v Speaker 2>reached out not long after that, and to be honest,

0:32:25.320 --> 0:32:27.120
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't ready to talk to him too early on,

0:32:27.680 --> 0:32:28.040
<v Speaker 2>and I.

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:29.160
<v Speaker 3>Wasn't bruised by him.

0:32:30.080 --> 0:32:33.400
<v Speaker 2>I've always respected Tom and I knew he was being comedic,

0:32:33.760 --> 0:32:37.840
<v Speaker 2>but the rules had changed in that people didn't campaign

0:32:38.000 --> 0:32:40.480
<v Speaker 2>that way, and I find the Logi's really hard. You

0:32:40.560 --> 0:32:43.320
<v Speaker 2>have to spook yourself, and that's what everyone's skill set.

0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:47.200
<v Speaker 2>It's really uncomfortable, and he saw great comedic opportunities in there.

0:32:47.760 --> 0:32:50.400
<v Speaker 2>But the hard thing for me was that the way

0:32:50.440 --> 0:32:52.760
<v Speaker 2>it was played in the press was it was Tom

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:55.960
<v Speaker 2>versus me, and suddenly it went from what it became

0:32:56.000 --> 0:32:58.320
<v Speaker 2>again this year, which was lovely, was aren't we all

0:32:58.360 --> 0:32:59.480
<v Speaker 2>lucky to be nominated?

0:33:00.040 --> 0:33:03.160
<v Speaker 3>And it didn't feel fun. That's what I feel.

0:33:03.240 --> 0:33:05.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't feel ripped off in any way that I

0:33:05.000 --> 0:33:07.280
<v Speaker 2>didn't win, but I feel ripped off that I couldn't

0:33:07.360 --> 0:33:09.920
<v Speaker 2>enjoy the experience because every interview I did this at

0:33:09.960 --> 0:33:12.520
<v Speaker 2>eh Dom's Coming for You, and I thought, I'm going

0:33:12.560 --> 0:33:14.040
<v Speaker 2>to be the butt of a joke that I don't

0:33:14.040 --> 0:33:17.800
<v Speaker 2>even I'm not really part of here. So I felt that, yes,

0:33:17.880 --> 0:33:21.520
<v Speaker 2>I was at the butt of a joke, and that

0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:24.600
<v Speaker 2>just made the experience not feel fun. Whereas I have

0:33:24.680 --> 0:33:28.320
<v Speaker 2>no problem, and to be honest, I'm not one of

0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:30.160
<v Speaker 2>those people who thinks I should have a Gold LOGI

0:33:30.240 --> 0:33:33.560
<v Speaker 2>not by any means. I'm quite sanguine about the fact

0:33:33.680 --> 0:33:36.000
<v Speaker 2>I don't have one and I didn't need to win

0:33:36.040 --> 0:33:38.320
<v Speaker 2>one to be nominated. And that sounds tripe, but it's

0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:41.560
<v Speaker 2>so true. To be nominated was such an honor, and

0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:43.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm okay with that, but I wish I'd been able

0:33:43.600 --> 0:33:44.960
<v Speaker 2>to enjoy the experience more.

0:33:45.200 --> 0:33:48.120
<v Speaker 1>You're not on television at the moment. Do you see

0:33:48.280 --> 0:33:50.600
<v Speaker 1>a role You've just said you're really not too bothered

0:33:50.600 --> 0:33:53.360
<v Speaker 1>about it, but just from a forecast perspective and in

0:33:53.440 --> 0:33:58.360
<v Speaker 1>terms of what your career goals are for the next five, ten,

0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:02.760
<v Speaker 1>fifteen years, another LOGI in your future, which is really

0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:06.440
<v Speaker 1>also another way of asking another high profile role on

0:34:06.520 --> 0:34:07.440
<v Speaker 1>television in your.

0:34:07.360 --> 0:34:08.879
<v Speaker 3>Future, I'd like to think. So.

0:34:09.000 --> 0:34:10.960
<v Speaker 2>I've got some TV things in the works for the

0:34:11.040 --> 0:34:14.440
<v Speaker 2>last second half of this year. But as much as

0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:16.799
<v Speaker 2>I was sad to see The Living Room go, and

0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:19.440
<v Speaker 2>I really love that show, and I think that had

0:34:19.520 --> 0:34:22.319
<v Speaker 2>legs in it to keep going. Having said that, that

0:34:22.400 --> 0:34:26.040
<v Speaker 2>schedule was getting so hard for me that I don't

0:34:26.080 --> 0:34:28.680
<v Speaker 2>mind the calmer life I'm having now with the breakfast

0:34:28.760 --> 0:34:31.799
<v Speaker 2>radio getting at four o'clock, talking for three hours, all

0:34:31.840 --> 0:34:34.799
<v Speaker 2>the rest of it that comes with that. But I

0:34:34.840 --> 0:34:37.040
<v Speaker 2>don't know if I do a big, long stint on

0:34:37.120 --> 0:34:40.080
<v Speaker 2>TV again. I like the idea of doing a project

0:34:40.080 --> 0:34:42.560
<v Speaker 2>here and there. I think that would probably suit me better.

0:34:42.920 --> 0:34:46.960
<v Speaker 2>But I hope to do more television. I love television

0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:49.280
<v Speaker 2>and it's a very different skill set I think to radio,

0:34:49.719 --> 0:34:52.200
<v Speaker 2>So i'd very much like to and I'm offered things

0:34:52.239 --> 0:34:56.319
<v Speaker 2>all the time, but I just am choosing what and

0:34:56.360 --> 0:34:59.120
<v Speaker 2>where and how, and with things with Harley too. Harley's

0:34:59.120 --> 0:35:01.080
<v Speaker 2>always supportive going to what you need to do, but

0:35:01.120 --> 0:35:02.560
<v Speaker 2>I want to make sure it's the right thing. If

0:35:02.600 --> 0:35:03.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to be at home or I've got

0:35:04.000 --> 0:35:06.000
<v Speaker 2>longer hours, how do we make this work for all

0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:09.320
<v Speaker 2>of us now? So yes, I think I am choosing

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:12.239
<v Speaker 2>starting to choose some things, and i'd really love to

0:35:12.239 --> 0:35:14.520
<v Speaker 2>think that big things were around the corner TV wise,

0:35:14.760 --> 0:35:16.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm certainly not finished with it yet.

0:35:16.880 --> 0:35:18.600
<v Speaker 1>Well that that is really good to hear, and I

0:35:18.640 --> 0:35:21.279
<v Speaker 1>really mean that. And then I personally do hope there

0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:22.799
<v Speaker 1>will be a LOGI and I know we're not making

0:35:22.840 --> 0:35:25.680
<v Speaker 1>it Tom, but if there is another LOGI nomination, I'm.

0:35:25.640 --> 0:35:27.480
<v Speaker 3>Having a couple of words.

0:35:29.080 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 2>One of the things that also about the TOM thing,

0:35:31.520 --> 0:35:33.600
<v Speaker 2>he made a joke about how crap the logis were

0:35:33.600 --> 0:35:35.680
<v Speaker 2>and how ridiculous they were, and I thought that was

0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:38.680
<v Speaker 2>a shame because it took away they are our awards

0:35:38.719 --> 0:35:42.400
<v Speaker 2>the travel industry has the rewards. The building industry have

0:35:42.480 --> 0:35:44.640
<v Speaker 2>the rewards. Whether you think they're tried or not, these

0:35:44.640 --> 0:35:47.560
<v Speaker 2>are our awards and yes they can be easily manipulated

0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:50.560
<v Speaker 2>if you want to, but I think that everyone then

0:35:50.600 --> 0:35:51.320
<v Speaker 2>we had COVID.

0:35:51.760 --> 0:35:53.560
<v Speaker 3>Remember COVID. I don't know if you've heard it, and.

0:35:55.040 --> 0:35:58.479
<v Speaker 2>I'll remind you afterwards. But it's come back with joy

0:35:58.520 --> 0:36:01.719
<v Speaker 2>for the industry again. Everyone stayed home and watch television.

0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:06.880
<v Speaker 2>The industry employed people, gave people a laugh, It entertained

0:36:06.880 --> 0:36:09.279
<v Speaker 2>people during a really tough time and I think we

0:36:09.320 --> 0:36:12.120
<v Speaker 2>really need to be championing the Australian television industry. So

0:36:12.440 --> 0:36:15.399
<v Speaker 2>I'm glad we've come back from making fun of it

0:36:15.600 --> 0:36:16.680
<v Speaker 2>to embracing it again.

0:36:17.120 --> 0:36:20.000
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, and I think you're so right. It's that absence

0:36:20.080 --> 0:36:22.480
<v Speaker 1>makes the heart grow fonder. And when we didn't have

0:36:22.520 --> 0:36:26.080
<v Speaker 1>the Lokis for two years, I think everyone from the

0:36:26.200 --> 0:36:29.239
<v Speaker 1>naysayers through to the people that just love to mock it,

0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:31.120
<v Speaker 1>we're like, oh, I really missed.

0:36:31.320 --> 0:36:33.240
<v Speaker 2>I think so, and it was a kind of return.

0:36:33.760 --> 0:36:36.399
<v Speaker 2>There was kindness supporting it when it came back.

0:36:36.440 --> 0:36:39.319
<v Speaker 1>It's very true. I mentioned doctor Chris Brown because he

0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:42.000
<v Speaker 1>has now obviously moved to seven Network. He's been a

0:36:42.040 --> 0:36:44.600
<v Speaker 1>guest on Something to Talk About as well. He'll be

0:36:44.680 --> 0:36:48.399
<v Speaker 1>doing Dancing with the Stars this year. Any advice for him?

0:36:48.440 --> 0:36:52.319
<v Speaker 1>Are you proud to have seen the sequence being handed on?

0:36:52.400 --> 0:36:53.600
<v Speaker 3>The sequence on.

0:36:53.800 --> 0:36:56.680
<v Speaker 2>That show is always a great show, and Chris is

0:36:56.760 --> 0:37:00.319
<v Speaker 2>such a great host. I will back Chris in any thing.

0:37:00.719 --> 0:37:05.880
<v Speaker 2>He is a rare beast in that he's so dark, humored,

0:37:06.520 --> 0:37:09.680
<v Speaker 2>but he's so sharp and funny, so that I think

0:37:09.760 --> 0:37:12.200
<v Speaker 2>Julia Morris has said this too. He's the brain of

0:37:12.200 --> 0:37:16.719
<v Speaker 2>a scientist zipped up in that physical person. But the

0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:25.160
<v Speaker 2>true Chris is warmer, funnier, darker, kinder than you imagine.

0:37:25.239 --> 0:37:27.400
<v Speaker 2>I've been with him walking late at night through the

0:37:27.400 --> 0:37:30.440
<v Speaker 2>streets of King's Cross after a party or something, and

0:37:30.640 --> 0:37:32.359
<v Speaker 2>homeless people will come up to him and ask about

0:37:32.360 --> 0:37:35.000
<v Speaker 2>their cats. And I've never seen anyone who will give

0:37:35.040 --> 0:37:38.640
<v Speaker 2>more people, more time to more people than Chris does.

0:37:38.800 --> 0:37:42.200
<v Speaker 2>He will always stop, he will always talk. He really

0:37:42.360 --> 0:37:45.719
<v Speaker 2>is an animal lover and a nerded heart, and I'm

0:37:45.719 --> 0:37:47.160
<v Speaker 2>always impressed by that.

0:37:47.600 --> 0:37:48.759
<v Speaker 1>He is a murdered heart.

0:37:48.880 --> 0:37:50.080
<v Speaker 3>He is a murdered heart.

0:37:50.280 --> 0:37:53.719
<v Speaker 2>Don't ask him about his frequent fly card for Spotlight.

0:37:53.760 --> 0:37:55.520
<v Speaker 2>He also loves a fancy dress party.

0:37:56.120 --> 0:37:59.040
<v Speaker 1>Oh okay, all right, Well I must say I did

0:37:59.080 --> 0:38:01.239
<v Speaker 1>not ask him about that when he was a guest

0:38:01.239 --> 0:38:03.160
<v Speaker 1>on something to talk about. You're saying not to, but

0:38:03.239 --> 0:38:04.520
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. Now I really want to ask.

0:38:04.560 --> 0:38:05.520
<v Speaker 3>I think maybe I should.

0:38:05.760 --> 0:38:09.960
<v Speaker 1>I also mentioned Barry Dunboi, who's a homes columnist with Stella.

0:38:10.120 --> 0:38:13.480
<v Speaker 1>You two have been also really good friends, and obviously

0:38:14.239 --> 0:38:17.600
<v Speaker 1>when we profiled him once for Stella, he was talking

0:38:17.640 --> 0:38:19.920
<v Speaker 1>to you a few times on the phone. He was

0:38:19.960 --> 0:38:24.640
<v Speaker 1>just navigating a cancer diagnosis. It's amazing because a lot

0:38:24.640 --> 0:38:27.800
<v Speaker 1>of people think this industry, well, it can be ruthless.

0:38:27.840 --> 0:38:30.959
<v Speaker 1>They're not wrong, and it can be shallow. But these

0:38:31.000 --> 0:38:35.440
<v Speaker 1>are really substantial friendships that you have formed and are

0:38:35.600 --> 0:38:39.000
<v Speaker 1>happening in the way that all good friendships do, seeing

0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:41.520
<v Speaker 1>each other through the highs and the lows.

0:38:41.480 --> 0:38:43.759
<v Speaker 2>And all of us and Miguel too. When I first

0:38:43.760 --> 0:38:45.359
<v Speaker 2>started working there, I thought, God, how do I deal

0:38:45.400 --> 0:38:47.840
<v Speaker 2>with Miguel. He was unlike any other character I'd ever met.

0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:50.360
<v Speaker 2>He's ended up being one of my closest friends. So

0:38:50.480 --> 0:38:53.239
<v Speaker 2>the four of us just went bang, which is such

0:38:53.280 --> 0:38:57.440
<v Speaker 2>a shame. I think that TV didn't see the rarity

0:38:57.480 --> 0:38:58.360
<v Speaker 2>of that chemistry.

0:38:58.480 --> 0:38:59.440
<v Speaker 3>Well it did for ten years.

0:38:59.480 --> 0:39:01.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I'm not planning ten years on a television

0:39:01.440 --> 0:39:04.520
<v Speaker 2>show is an extraordinary thing. I'm in no way complaining

0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:07.040
<v Speaker 2>that that show wrapped up, But it's so rare to

0:39:07.120 --> 0:39:10.120
<v Speaker 2>have that reality of friendship in amongst all the rest

0:39:10.120 --> 0:39:14.719
<v Speaker 2>of it. And also that Barry is so open and

0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:18.840
<v Speaker 2>brave about what he's going through. He helps so many people.

0:39:19.320 --> 0:39:21.759
<v Speaker 2>He really wears his heart on his sleeve, and in

0:39:21.800 --> 0:39:24.359
<v Speaker 2>a way, one hand, he's completely invincible. On the other hand,

0:39:24.400 --> 0:39:27.200
<v Speaker 2>he's so vulnerable when he talks about it. So, yes,

0:39:27.239 --> 0:39:30.120
<v Speaker 2>he and I the minute I met him, I've sort

0:39:30.120 --> 0:39:32.720
<v Speaker 2>of we soniged each other's I know you, We felt

0:39:32.719 --> 0:39:35.600
<v Speaker 2>we knew each other. So this show has given me

0:39:36.280 --> 0:39:38.560
<v Speaker 2>three of the greatest friends of my life.

0:39:38.600 --> 0:39:42.680
<v Speaker 1>You hosted Beyond two thousand before we got to two thousand.

0:39:42.760 --> 0:39:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Remember when we used to say the year two thousand.

0:39:45.719 --> 0:39:49.480
<v Speaker 2>Spaceships incredible jet packs exactly?

0:39:49.480 --> 0:39:50.760
<v Speaker 1>This is my final question.

0:39:50.920 --> 0:39:52.600
<v Speaker 3>Where's your jetpack? Don't you want to know?

0:39:52.760 --> 0:39:55.160
<v Speaker 1>I want to know where is it? Like I'm doing

0:39:55.200 --> 0:39:58.520
<v Speaker 1>my own housework. Why don't I have a robot? Why

0:39:58.520 --> 0:40:03.000
<v Speaker 1>are we still driving cars instead of little self contained spaceships?

0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:04.840
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's a very good question, Sarah.

0:40:05.000 --> 0:40:06.680
<v Speaker 2>I saw something recently that said, you know, with all

0:40:06.680 --> 0:40:11.360
<v Speaker 2>these advancements in AI, why is AI doing the writing

0:40:11.520 --> 0:40:14.279
<v Speaker 2>and the poetry and the creative work and we're doing

0:40:14.280 --> 0:40:17.920
<v Speaker 2>the laundry in the housework. What's happened that we are

0:40:18.480 --> 0:40:22.160
<v Speaker 2>doing the manual labor while AI is doing the lofty,

0:40:22.200 --> 0:40:24.560
<v Speaker 2>wonderful creative stuff the humans should be doing.

0:40:25.520 --> 0:40:26.160
<v Speaker 3>But it's funny.

0:40:26.239 --> 0:40:28.480
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we didn't see a lot of the technology coming,

0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:31.040
<v Speaker 2>or if we did, there were such small increments like

0:40:31.080 --> 0:40:31.600
<v Speaker 2>the Internet.

0:40:32.080 --> 0:40:32.680
<v Speaker 3>Things like that.

0:40:33.320 --> 0:40:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Jones will often have a go at me saying you

0:40:34.920 --> 0:40:37.520
<v Speaker 2>never saw the Internet coming. But it was a series

0:40:37.600 --> 0:40:40.080
<v Speaker 2>of computers that I remember. The first one, I think

0:40:40.440 --> 0:40:43.440
<v Speaker 2>was there was a coffee pot in a university lab

0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:45.880
<v Speaker 2>and they put a camera on it because they wanted

0:40:45.920 --> 0:40:49.080
<v Speaker 2>to see if it was empty. It was downstairs, the

0:40:49.080 --> 0:40:50.880
<v Speaker 2>couldn't be bother going there if it was empty. That

0:40:51.000 --> 0:40:54.640
<v Speaker 2>was the very first kind of interactive camera system. And

0:40:54.640 --> 0:40:57.040
<v Speaker 2>suddenly everyone's got one on their phone, constantly filming themselves,

0:40:57.080 --> 0:40:59.239
<v Speaker 2>constantly doing all of this, often to our detriment. I

0:40:59.239 --> 0:41:02.359
<v Speaker 2>think interesting is that we embraced all the technology. None

0:41:02.400 --> 0:41:04.400
<v Speaker 2>of us said, should we get an ethicist on to

0:41:04.440 --> 0:41:07.640
<v Speaker 2>talk about where this is going. But I know what

0:41:08.239 --> 0:41:10.520
<v Speaker 2>I like about the fact we don't have flying cars

0:41:10.520 --> 0:41:13.520
<v Speaker 2>and all that is that we're still human and humans

0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:16.080
<v Speaker 2>are never going to be good enough to fly a

0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:19.359
<v Speaker 2>car and deal with road rage in the air. I

0:41:19.400 --> 0:41:23.000
<v Speaker 2>know that self driving cars exist, I still can't imagine that.

0:41:23.520 --> 0:41:26.719
<v Speaker 2>So I think that despite all of that, we are

0:41:26.760 --> 0:41:29.280
<v Speaker 2>still humans and that's a relief.

0:41:30.400 --> 0:41:32.560
<v Speaker 1>We just as humans. We just need to have a

0:41:32.600 --> 0:41:36.520
<v Speaker 1>word to AI, don't we yes to make sure that

0:41:36.560 --> 0:41:40.239
<v Speaker 1>the AI generated technology is doing the menial labor. Yeah,

0:41:40.239 --> 0:41:41.440
<v Speaker 1>we're doing the fun things.

0:41:41.600 --> 0:41:43.680
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, We've got to ask about.

0:41:43.680 --> 0:41:46.200
<v Speaker 1>We do the fun things like having you in the

0:41:46.239 --> 0:41:49.000
<v Speaker 1>podcast studio today. I'm glad it was me to talk

0:41:49.040 --> 0:41:49.879
<v Speaker 1>to you today.

0:41:49.600 --> 0:41:51.360
<v Speaker 3>And not AI. When you come back.

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:55.560
<v Speaker 1>In beyond two thy fifty, Amanda or I maybe replaced,

0:41:55.680 --> 0:41:58.200
<v Speaker 1>so might generated robot. So there we go.

0:41:58.640 --> 0:41:59.960
<v Speaker 3>I'll be three D printed by them.

0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:03.080
<v Speaker 1>Thank you so much for coming into the studio today.

0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:04.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm glad we finally.

0:42:03.880 --> 0:42:04.560
<v Speaker 3>Made this happen.

0:42:04.600 --> 0:42:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Be too.

0:42:04.920 --> 0:42:06.200
<v Speaker 3>I loved it, Sarah, Thank you.

0:42:06.520 --> 0:42:09.360
<v Speaker 1>And you can hear more from Amanda on the Double

0:42:09.400 --> 0:42:13.160
<v Speaker 1>a Chattery podcast that's available on the Iheartapp or wherever

0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:16.000
<v Speaker 1>you get your podcasts, and also Jonesy and Amanda, which

0:42:16.040 --> 0:42:19.160
<v Speaker 1>can be heard weekdays from six am on Sydney's one

0:42:19.200 --> 0:42:23.880
<v Speaker 1>oh one point seven WSFM. And if you've enjoyed this episode,

0:42:23.920 --> 0:42:26.080
<v Speaker 1>make sure you're following us because we'll be back with

0:42:26.120 --> 0:42:29.240
<v Speaker 1>another exclusive guest on Something to Talk About next week