1 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Doctor Sandeep Gupta, Welcome to the podcast. 2 00:00:12,880 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Paul. Excited to be here and 3 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 2: to chat to you. 4 00:00:16,560 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: Yes, I'm excited as well. Maybe so you you've had 5 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: an interesting journey, right You started off in the traditional 6 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:34,040 Speaker 1: GP clash hospital environment and then you have focused more 7 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: on an integrative being, an integrated GP and longevity and 8 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 1: health span. Why the shift and when did that come 9 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: in year career? 10 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 2: So the shift happened around about six years after graduating 11 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: from that school. And so, as you say, initially I 12 00:00:53,479 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 2: went down the more standard pathways of working in the 13 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 2: hospital and doing emerging medicine, anesthetics and intensive care, and 14 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:10,559 Speaker 2: really any interest I had in holistic approaches to health 15 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,679 Speaker 2: were really beat out of me in my first couple 16 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: of years of being a junior doctor. And it wasn't 17 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 2: until I myself had a brush with health in two 18 00:01:22,160 --> 00:01:25,880 Speaker 2: thousand and five that I started revisiting some of this. 19 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 2: And so if you go back to my med school days, 20 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:31,760 Speaker 2: I used to you know, I've had an interest in 21 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:34,920 Speaker 2: meditation for a long time, and I started getting interested 22 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 2: in ari verda, which is an I guess it's a 23 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:41,840 Speaker 2: Indian traditional medicine. And then also just holistic medicine in general. 24 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:46,200 Speaker 2: I remember I drove past a holistic medicine center one day, 25 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 2: and I remember the thought came into my head, why 26 00:01:48,840 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: wouldn't you do that? Like you know that, you know, 27 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: that just makes so much sense to take that approach 28 00:01:54,880 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: to health But as I say, I went in a 29 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:02,000 Speaker 2: different path and it until I myself had to be 30 00:02:02,040 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 2: a patient that my interest in a more holistic and 31 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: comprehensive approach to healthcare came back up again. 32 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: And when you say it was beat out of you 33 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 1: as a junior doctor, I think I know what you mean. 34 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,160 Speaker 1: But just explain that to our listeners. 35 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 2: Well, I guess you could say there's a certain narrative 36 00:02:23,080 --> 00:02:27,800 Speaker 2: that's given to junior doctors by the more senior consultants, 37 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,639 Speaker 2: if you like, whether that be in emergency medicine or 38 00:02:32,040 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 2: general medicine, general surgery, etc. And yeah, one of them 39 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: is almost general practitioners are not very bright. Anyone who 40 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 2: gets into anything slightly slightly holistic is you know, slightly 41 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:51,080 Speaker 2: less intelligent. And if you're an intelligent young doctor, the 42 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: only option for you is to get into the most 43 00:02:53,560 --> 00:03:01,560 Speaker 2: technological forms of medicine available. So whether that be you know, cardiology, radiology, 44 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:07,919 Speaker 2: anything highly technological ticks the boxes. But anything where you're 45 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,600 Speaker 2: starting to look at building blocks for health doesn't tick 46 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 2: the box at all. That's like, you know, the people 47 00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:17,840 Speaker 2: who just muck everything else up, and you know, we 48 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 2: were taught that nature paths are generally people who you know, 49 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,880 Speaker 2: just delay cases until they're incurable. 50 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 3: Right. 51 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: It's It's interesting, isn't it the that the general medical 52 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: system tends to look down its nos on anything that 53 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: is a bit more holistic and often slags it's evidence 54 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 1: bace and what what? Why do you why do you 55 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 1: think that is? 56 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 2: Well, I try not to speculate, but you could say 57 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 2: that the history, and that I've been told by some 58 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,960 Speaker 2: slightly older doctors, is that it used to be that 59 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:06,600 Speaker 2: in the early eighties, late seventies and so on, doctors 60 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: used to get together in the hospital in the tea 61 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 2: rooms and do their journal club. Now, these journal clubs 62 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 2: were totally independent. They would each of them will pull 63 00:04:18,160 --> 00:04:22,039 Speaker 2: an article and try to interpret that article for the 64 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:28,560 Speaker 2: mutual benefit of all the doctors there. Now, towards the 65 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:34,280 Speaker 2: late eighties and early nineteen nineties, there were a group 66 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 2: of super drugs that came out. Now, those were referred to. 67 00:04:39,240 --> 00:04:42,200 Speaker 2: And this is doctor Andrew McIntyre, a colleague of mine 68 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 2: here who was a gastron rollers, who shared this knowledge 69 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:48,480 Speaker 2: of me, and he said that these three classes of 70 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:53,960 Speaker 2: drugs were ACE inhibitors, statins and proton pump inhibitors. These 71 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:58,120 Speaker 2: were the super drugs because they were huge sellers. They 72 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 2: could they were used on very large patient groups. There 73 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,920 Speaker 2: were massive studies which were run on them that showed benefit, 74 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 2: and therefore the pharmaceutical sales escalated a lot of that time. 75 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 2: And so at that same time they started to approach 76 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 2: doctors and say, you know, do you want to be 77 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 2: sitting in this tea room at seven am? Or do 78 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 2: you want to come to our fancy education sessions where 79 00:05:27,160 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 2: we do all the work for you. You don't have 80 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 2: to read those journals anymore. At six am in the morning, 81 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 2: we'll do all the work for you. You come along 82 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:38,480 Speaker 2: and we'll tell you what to think. You don't have 83 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: to you know, you don't have to work so hard. 84 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 2: You can come and drink wine and eat our beautiful food. 85 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: And the and have the jollies as well. My view 86 00:05:52,120 --> 00:05:56,479 Speaker 1: that I have formed over the years is that the 87 00:05:56,680 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 1: medical system and inverted Commas isn't a healthcare system, It's 88 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 1: a sick care system in that and what I mean 89 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: by that is that the vast majority of spending and 90 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:14,839 Speaker 1: resources and focus is on treating disease, not on optimal health. 91 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: And and and my personal experience both with my son 92 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,440 Speaker 1: who had Cushing's disease and me who went through which 93 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: as you know, is pretty rare, but me also going 94 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,000 Speaker 1: through the open heart surgery last year because I found 95 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,839 Speaker 1: out I was born with a dodgy aortic valve. I 96 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:34,040 Speaker 1: was born with a by customer, no, no, no, it's 97 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: all good. But the system was brilliant up until the 98 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: time that we got released from the system, and then 99 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: it was shithush. And what I mean by shithuse no 100 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 1: focus on the optimal health, on returning to optimal health. 101 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 1: Basically all the focus was don't fuck us up and 102 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 1: come back in, so completely conservative and really no focused 103 00:07:00,560 --> 00:07:04,679 Speaker 1: on optimal health. So that then leads us nicely into 104 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: this whole idea of medicine three point oh or focusing 105 00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 1: on health span, focusing on life span, what's your particular bent. 106 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: Do you focus on extending people's longevity or do you 107 00:07:19,560 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: focus on extending their health span or have you got 108 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,760 Speaker 1: a little bit of a foot in both camps. 109 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 2: Well, it depends on people's goals and their particular view 110 00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:34,400 Speaker 2: on this. However, my personal view is it's all about 111 00:07:34,640 --> 00:07:39,160 Speaker 2: having those you know, those quality years of life which 112 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,000 Speaker 2: you can do the things in life that bring you 113 00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: passion and joy and meaning. And for me personally, it's 114 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 2: not about the number of years of life. However, if 115 00:07:48,840 --> 00:07:52,920 Speaker 2: that came along as a side effect, sure yea. And 116 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: my suspicion is it probably will with any with any 117 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:00,840 Speaker 2: really good longevity program, the number of views probably is 118 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,360 Speaker 2: going to increase as well. But the thing for me 119 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: is that I want to be, you know, into my 120 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,600 Speaker 2: eighties and hopefully the nineties. I want to be functioning 121 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: at a level where I'm doing the things that bring 122 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 2: me joy and meaning and passion. 123 00:08:16,720 --> 00:08:19,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. I want to go out and maybe 124 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:21,800 Speaker 1: play a bit of golf. Catch up with me, it's 125 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: catch up with family, have a nice dinner, good to sleep, 126 00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: and never wake up. 127 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:27,320 Speaker 2: There you go, Yeah, that's that's a good one. 128 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,079 Speaker 1: Not like the average Australian who lives the last ten 129 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 1: years of their life riddled with chronic disease. Right, so exactly, 130 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: and that's the difference between health span and lifespan. So 131 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,720 Speaker 1: what let's let's dive into the sort of stuff that 132 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 1: you do. So when somebody comes to see you, I 133 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:54,920 Speaker 1: know you have longevity programs. What's the starting point is there? 134 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,800 Speaker 1: Is there a number of different screens that you put 135 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: people through and nitche to get a bit of an 136 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,920 Speaker 1: assessment of where they're currently at. Top talks through what 137 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: that looks like. Yeah. 138 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 2: Sure, So the first thing is just taking the history, 139 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 2: as with any other consultation, but I guess one of 140 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: the big parts of that is just working out what 141 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:18,880 Speaker 2: what's the client's goals? What do you want to be like, 142 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,360 Speaker 2: So if we're if it's you, for instance, and you're 143 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:24,079 Speaker 2: telling me you want to be playing golf until the 144 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 2: you know, until the day you die pretty much, so 145 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: you could make an estimation of that. You could say, okay, well, 146 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:34,120 Speaker 2: roughly you want to have a biological age of sixty 147 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 2: when you're ninety. Would that be a would that be 148 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 2: a reasonable thing to say for you? 149 00:09:39,160 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 1: Yep, yeah, yeah, let's go for that. 150 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: Let's go with that, okay, And then of course we 151 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 2: you know, we need to delve into any medical problems 152 00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 2: you've had in the past, et cetera, and what could 153 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 2: be getting in the way of your longevity family history, 154 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:54,079 Speaker 2: et cetera. So if you've got a really strong family 155 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: history of something, we've most certainly got something there that 156 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,760 Speaker 2: we've got to We've got to look that and try 157 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 2: and prevent and then we generally go into a standard 158 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,160 Speaker 2: set of testing. So one of the big ones is 159 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: the biological age testing with true age. 160 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: Okay, you use true age diagnostics, which I had used 161 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:21,920 Speaker 1: with doctor Denise Furness. We did a study recently that 162 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,080 Speaker 1: we published in ACNEM where we took a bunch of 163 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,440 Speaker 1: people and reverse their biological age through through the true 164 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 1: age diagnostics. So we're we're kind of in the same field. 165 00:10:33,679 --> 00:10:35,840 Speaker 1: You just you just do it more often than I 166 00:10:36,000 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: do it. So so when we're talking about that, so 167 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:43,720 Speaker 1: somebody comes in, we're looking at looking at the goals. 168 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: You're looking at their family history and say they want 169 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 1: to have a really good health span and a long life, 170 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: and do you have a focus on reduced looking at 171 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: their risk of the big chronic diseases and trying to 172 00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:04,360 Speaker 1: minimize those as part of the entire program, and then 173 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:07,640 Speaker 1: add acing onto the kick so to speak or do 174 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: you take a different approach. 175 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 2: I think you need to. I don't think there's any 176 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 2: getting away from that, because let's say, let's say it's 177 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,360 Speaker 2: you again with the goal of being sixty at ninety, Well, 178 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:23,080 Speaker 2: if you were to develop any of the major illnesses, 179 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 2: whether it be heart disease, cancer, et cetera, well that's 180 00:11:28,679 --> 00:11:32,640 Speaker 2: going to derail the whole process. So we need to 181 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:36,440 Speaker 2: make sure that in those ninety years you don't develop 182 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 2: one of the major illnesses, the major degenerative illnesses, that 183 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 2: that is going to derail the whole process and threaten 184 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 2: your life expectancy as well. So there needs to be 185 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 2: a Yeah, cardiovascular is a really big one for me. Yeah, yeah, cardiovascular, 186 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 2: metabolic and cancer would be the biggest ones. 187 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: And what about neuroty generative because we're starting to see NI, 188 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: I mean, particularly if you look back at the at 189 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 1: the history of the biggest killers. Let's just take Australia 190 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:12,480 Speaker 1: and you know, traditionally cardiovascular disease has been the biggest 191 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:16,319 Speaker 1: killer by by far and away. But I believe NI 192 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 1: that in women it is neurodegenerative diseases that have just 193 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: come out of nowhere and right up to the top, 194 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:29,360 Speaker 1: so do you focus on neurodegenitive diseases as well as the. 195 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 2: Other three hundred percent? And it does tie into cardiovascular 196 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 2: and metabology, so there's a tie in with the different conditions. 197 00:12:36,559 --> 00:12:38,920 Speaker 2: But yeah, one hundred percent, there's no use getting to 198 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 2: ninety and you're incredibly fit, but you've got no ability 199 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 2: to recognize anyone around you. That's not going to work either, right, 200 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 2: So that doesn't fit with those goals either, And so yeah, 201 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 2: that's that's extremely important. And you know there's some very 202 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 2: basic things you can do for people like you know, 203 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:00,959 Speaker 2: to start off with having look at the appo E 204 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 2: between typing and so on, as thing, are they particularly 205 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 2: at higher risk of Alzheimer's or other forms of neurodegeneration. 206 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,440 Speaker 2: So for instance, there's a very strong history of Parkinson's 207 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 2: in my family, and so you know, I would need 208 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:22,040 Speaker 2: to definitely embark on a prevention program for neurodegenerative disease. 209 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 1: And maybe talk our listeners through the interactions between those 210 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,640 Speaker 1: diseases because, as you very rightly pointed out, you know, 211 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:37,200 Speaker 1: you develop one and your risk of the others goes 212 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:44,080 Speaker 1: up significantly. So what are you seeing today like as 213 00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:50,280 Speaker 1: the primary driver. Is it justsregulated metabolism, Is it poor 214 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,959 Speaker 1: cardiovascular health? You know what if you were to depeck, 215 00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:58,560 Speaker 1: like what is what's coming first and that's driving some 216 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: of the others in general, what would your thinking be. 217 00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 2: I think I think generally it's going to be metabolic. 218 00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:09,199 Speaker 2: And so that's that's where we talk about insulin resistance syndrome. 219 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:15,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm surprised how little talk some deep there is 220 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:21,320 Speaker 1: about metabolic syndrome these days. And maybe just talk our 221 00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 1: listeners through metabolic syndrome and this whole idea of your 222 00:14:26,360 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: metabolism that when it starts to go awry, it's just 223 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: creates carnage at a system level, at an ecosystem level. 224 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 2: One h And I'll start off as saying that when 225 00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,960 Speaker 2: I was working in intensive care at one point, we 226 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,320 Speaker 2: used to have often people in their fifties who would 227 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 2: come into the hospital with pneumonia and other conditions like that, 228 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 2: where they would often be an intensive care for weeks 229 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,440 Speaker 2: to months. And I remember I wrote in one of 230 00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 2: their chart one day, fifty three year old jentlemen fit 231 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:09,400 Speaker 2: and healthy, type two diabetes. And so the consultant at 232 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:12,480 Speaker 2: the time said to be something, look at this guy, 233 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,360 Speaker 2: Do you think he's fit and healthy? Why are you 234 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 2: writing that? And then that was actually a bit of 235 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 2: an aur harm moment for me because we used to 236 00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: It's almost like, you know, we felt like we had 237 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 2: to just fill the chart in with something. And so 238 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 2: if someone doesn't have a medical condition, so usually you'd 239 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,280 Speaker 2: write fifty two year old gentleman with diabetes. But if 240 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:36,520 Speaker 2: they don't have that, you just write fit and healthy, 241 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 2: had a car accident. And so it's almost like you're 242 00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 2: using that to fill in the lack of a diagnostic condition. 243 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: You're not using that to actually evaluate whether they really 244 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:55,800 Speaker 2: were healthy. That's an interesting little, a little sidetrack, but 245 00:15:56,840 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 2: on that thought process, as I say, if you develop diabetes, 246 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 2: or you develop obesity or anything like that, your risk 247 00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:07,360 Speaker 2: of having major medical problems even as you go into 248 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 2: your fifties is very greatly increased. So what causes these conditions? 249 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 2: So the condition is, as you said, metabolic syndrome, which 250 00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 2: is also known as insulance resistance syndrome. So the explanation 251 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 2: I often give people is that, let's say you were 252 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 2: to go have a can of coke, healthiest food on 253 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:31,560 Speaker 2: the planet or drink rather, so I think there's something 254 00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 2: like seven to eight teaspoons of sugar in like a 255 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:39,080 Speaker 2: can of that. It's huge, and that's the case for 256 00:16:39,120 --> 00:16:41,480 Speaker 2: most soft drinks, by the way, if people aren't aware, 257 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 2: it's absolutely part. 258 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,360 Speaker 1: Of and that's a three thirty mil can right in there. 259 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 1: Often people are taking five six hundred mil bottles with 260 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:52,720 Speaker 1: like fourteen tea spoons of sugar in there. 261 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, thank you for pointing that out. So what 262 00:16:55,680 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 2: we're getting at here is the amount of sugar in 263 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,960 Speaker 2: the Western diet. It laid somewhere around the nineteen forties 264 00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:06,520 Speaker 2: to nineteen fifties after World War Two. And so if 265 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,680 Speaker 2: you were to drink a can of coke or a 266 00:17:08,720 --> 00:17:12,159 Speaker 2: pepsi or whatever it might be, then your blood sugar 267 00:17:12,240 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 2: so normal blood sugar's around four to five let's say. Okay, 268 00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: so if you to have a. 269 00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: Huge sorry just for overseas listeners, we're talking Miller moles 270 00:17:22,840 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: per liter here, right, So we do have some overseas 271 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: listeners we can just google and do the translation. 272 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,800 Speaker 2: I forget the conversion myself, but it's very different in 273 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: yes units. Yeah, So then what happens is your blood 274 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 2: sugar might shoot up to fifteen all of a sudden 275 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 2: or at least ten, and so you know which is 276 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 2: which is a very high level. So what happens is 277 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:49,760 Speaker 2: the pancreas, which is an organ which is located behind 278 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 2: the stomach, has to do something about the situation. And 279 00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: so the response is it shoots out a hormone called insulin. Now, 280 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 2: the insulin opens the doors in the cells, particularly in 281 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 2: the liver to accept that glucose or sugar and to 282 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: store it as glycogen or to use it, you know, 283 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 2: use it in a majority ways. It can also store 284 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:18,199 Speaker 2: it as fat. But the key thing is that the 285 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,760 Speaker 2: blood sugar will then drop back to four to five 286 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 2: again and every and the crisis was averted. So it's 287 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 2: a very effective hormone and that's a very effective response. Now, 288 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,639 Speaker 2: the problem is if the next day you come back 289 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:36,080 Speaker 2: and the next day after that with another huge amount 290 00:18:36,119 --> 00:18:39,880 Speaker 2: of sugar or refined carbohydrates of any type. So let's 291 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 2: just include any white flour product into this. It doesn't 292 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:48,040 Speaker 2: have to be just sugar. It can be any type 293 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:54,440 Speaker 2: of refined carbohydrate. So in nature, carbohydrates are generally unrefined 294 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:58,960 Speaker 2: and therefore they take a lot more time to break 295 00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:05,119 Speaker 2: down into glucose. So any refined carbohydrate will shoot your 296 00:19:05,119 --> 00:19:07,800 Speaker 2: blood sugar up. So then let's say you do it 297 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:12,160 Speaker 2: for the next thirty days. On day thirty, the same 298 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 2: thing happens. Your blood sugar shoots up again. The pancreas 299 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,240 Speaker 2: releases inchulin. But then the cells, just like a child 300 00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:24,280 Speaker 2: who is starts to become resistant to the parents who're 301 00:19:24,320 --> 00:19:27,600 Speaker 2: pestering him or her all the time. They start saying, 302 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 2: hang on, hang on, stop shouting at me all the time. 303 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,400 Speaker 2: I don't want to listen to you anymore, so they 304 00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,720 Speaker 2: become resistant. So what that means is that the effect 305 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 2: of insulin is nowhere near as powerful as it was before. 306 00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 2: So therefore, let's say the blood sugar only drops to half, 307 00:19:48,560 --> 00:19:51,560 Speaker 2: the pancreas then says, oh, okay, I'm going to have 308 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 2: to shoot another amount out to have the same equal 309 00:19:56,040 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 2: amount out to have the same effect as I previously had. Okay, 310 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,159 Speaker 2: now that's all well and good. But the problem is 311 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,679 Speaker 2: if this problem keeps on going up or keeps on going, 312 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:12,879 Speaker 2: then the rising levels of insulin itself have problem creates problems. 313 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 2: It inflames the arteries to some degree, so high blood 314 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,159 Speaker 2: pressure can start to develop. It starts to push metabolism 315 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 2: towards formation of visceral fat, and that's one of the 316 00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:32,080 Speaker 2: most harmful forms of fat. So often faty liver, faty pancreas, etc. 317 00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 2: Will start to form, the weight will start going up 318 00:20:36,920 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 2: and that's not muscle. And finally, somewhere along this road, 319 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 2: the pancreas cannot keep up with the needs of the 320 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:49,480 Speaker 2: blood sugar and therefore the blood sugar rises and that's 321 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 2: where you start getting pre diabetes and then finally diabetes. 322 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:56,119 Speaker 2: But the key thing to yeah, but the key thing 323 00:20:56,160 --> 00:21:00,000 Speaker 2: to know is there's many, many stages before you become 324 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 2: overtly diabetic. Yeah. 325 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:08,960 Speaker 1: And people's metabolism is often under massive pressure before they 326 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:11,640 Speaker 1: get the diagnosis. Right, It's not like you just wake 327 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: up one day and there's a problem. The system is 328 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,720 Speaker 1: under pressure for many, many years before exactly. And then 329 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: people think they're just going to be able to reverse 330 00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: it like that. Well, guess what took you twenty or 331 00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: thirty years to develop it. It ain't going to get 332 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 1: reversed super quick. Now, this leads us in quite nicely 333 00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 1: because you were talking about diets and deep so I'm 334 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: guessing from what you were talking about that's kind of 335 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: leading me a little bit to what sort of diets 336 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:46,200 Speaker 1: that you recommend from a longevity perspective, but what would 337 00:21:46,200 --> 00:21:50,760 Speaker 1: be your preferred way of eating for most people? And 338 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:54,560 Speaker 1: then what nuances are that well you might steer someone 339 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:55,680 Speaker 1: down a different path. 340 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, So my belief is that there's no one diet 341 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,840 Speaker 2: for everyone, but there are some key principles. 342 00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:03,840 Speaker 1: So glad that you said that. You know what I 343 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: often say, anybody who says there's one diet we should 344 00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 1: all be eating is either demented, they're trying to sell 345 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: you something, are they're a member of a cult. 346 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm glad. I don't fit into those categories, not yet. 347 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:23,119 Speaker 2: So there are definitely some nuances, but definitely the number 348 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:27,160 Speaker 2: one enemy for almost everyone is sugar and refined carbohydrates. 349 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 2: So I don't think everyone needs to eat carnivore or 350 00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:35,600 Speaker 2: anything like that. And I don't think everyone needs to 351 00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 2: be vegan. I think everyone's I think everyone somewhere in 352 00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:43,800 Speaker 2: between needing to be a raw vegan and a carnivore. 353 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:50,959 Speaker 2: That's a pretty wide scope there. So if you're so. 354 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,640 Speaker 2: In the metabolic typing system, they break it up into 355 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:59,240 Speaker 2: three categories protein type, mixed type, and veggie type, let's say, 356 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 2: and so sixty percent of people in Western society seem 357 00:23:03,240 --> 00:23:06,600 Speaker 2: to be more in that protein type where you're generally 358 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 2: going to need the majority of your meal, or let'say 359 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 2: at least fifty percent to be proaching and fat and 360 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:17,720 Speaker 2: a smaller amount of carbohydrates. Again we're not talking refined carbohydrates. 361 00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 2: We're talking about non starchy vegetables in general. So everyone 362 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: still needs some degree of proaching and fat either way, 363 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,600 Speaker 2: but it's about the proportion. So if you're what we 364 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:33,200 Speaker 2: call a veggie type, you may be able to get 365 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:36,240 Speaker 2: away with a higher amount of your plate being plant based, 366 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:39,639 Speaker 2: so you know, quite a lot of veggies and salad 367 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,000 Speaker 2: on your plate, but we're not talking about grains. Still 368 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,679 Speaker 2: a significant amount of grains, maybe a little bit of 369 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:48,560 Speaker 2: quen while or something like that may be doable for 370 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:51,520 Speaker 2: you depending on your metabolic type, but you're going to 371 00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:54,320 Speaker 2: still everyone still needs to get a minimum of protein, 372 00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: which's probably somewhere around sixty or seventy grams. 373 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: And on that. It's it's quite interesting, isn't it the 374 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:07,399 Speaker 1: research coming out around protein requirements, especially as we each 375 00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: and I think it's important for people to understand that 376 00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:16,480 Speaker 1: the old recommended daily alliances that that was done many 377 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: decades ago based on nitrogen balanced studies and was not 378 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,719 Speaker 1: never meant to be optimal. It was what is the 379 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: minimum that you need to not cause an issue? But 380 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: I think since then we realized that as you get older, 381 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: muscle protein synthesis degrades and you tend to need more 382 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,399 Speaker 1: protein as you ege. That's right, And they're they're the 383 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,840 Speaker 1: people who often eat less protein as they start to eat, 384 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:42,280 Speaker 1: isn't it. 385 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, exactly. You know, if you look at 386 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: elderly people's diets in general, you know there's a lot 387 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:52,480 Speaker 2: of biscuits being eaten. Yeah, and generally speaking, people aren't 388 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 2: having really good quality food. So as we say, some 389 00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 2: people are saying more closer to the one point five 390 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 2: to two grams for a kilogram pada. I think I 391 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 2: heard you say that in your life. 392 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm a big fan of that, particularly 393 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 3: as you're aging, because I think just let people know, 394 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 3: like sarcopenia for me, yes, you know, obviously there's a direct. 395 00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: Effect of syclopenia in terms of falls, and if you 396 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,200 Speaker 1: fall and break a hip in your sixties, you got 397 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: a fifty percent chance of being dead in the next 398 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: five years. But for me, it's the thing that people 399 00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: aren't talking about is if you become sarcophenic, if you're 400 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:43,040 Speaker 1: losing significant amounts of muscle, you're losing bone. That as 401 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:48,600 Speaker 1: a risk factor for other chronic diseases, especially metabolic disease, 402 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,760 Speaker 1: cardiovascular disease. Can you can you just educate our listeners 403 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:58,639 Speaker 1: a little bit on those indirect risks of becoming sarcophenic. 404 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, huge if yees. So, if you develop cycopenia and 405 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:06,240 Speaker 2: lose a large amount of muscle volume, you're going to 406 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:10,480 Speaker 2: develop a certain amount of inflammation in the system. And 407 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 2: so inflammation is a common denominator between all degenerative disease. 408 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,160 Speaker 2: So there's going to be a greater risk of cardiovascular problems, 409 00:26:19,200 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 2: there's going to be a greater risk of diabetes and 410 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:26,840 Speaker 2: other metabolic problems. Cancer maybe a thing I haven't looked 411 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:29,920 Speaker 2: at the research at that just recently, but there is. 412 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 2: You know, it's something that's worth investigating. So really yeah, 413 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 2: as you say, Paul, you know, one of the really 414 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:41,520 Speaker 2: key goals of a longevity program is to maintain muscle mass. 415 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:43,920 Speaker 2: As you well, first you've got to first you've got 416 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 2: to create decent muscle mass if you don't already have it, 417 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:53,320 Speaker 2: and then you need to maintain it into your later years. 418 00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:54,200 Speaker 2: That's very very yea. 419 00:26:55,720 --> 00:26:58,960 Speaker 1: And I think people need to realize that we we 420 00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: naturally use it as we tend to earge, and it 421 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,919 Speaker 1: seems to be once you hit you into your sixties, 422 00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: it really starts to fall off a clef and that's 423 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 1: where strength is feeling. I think in your forties and fifties, 424 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:18,760 Speaker 1: it's absolutely critical. And I always say that, you know, 425 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,679 Speaker 1: everybody should be lefting heavy shit, and the older you are, 426 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: the more important that statement actually is. 427 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:26,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that, And yeah, I think I heard 428 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,720 Speaker 2: Peter Aartilla making the statement that when you're only starting 429 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:34,360 Speaker 2: to get into your late forties, that's really the time 430 00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 2: that you need to start putting a lot of effort 431 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 2: into your health, because you know, it's kind of like 432 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,800 Speaker 2: the higher you are, the better state you reach before 433 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:51,640 Speaker 2: any kind of decline starts, the more likely you are 434 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 2: to maintain a good level. 435 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: I think that absolutely it's about having a reserve, right 436 00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: because I think the other thing people don't understand about 437 00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,720 Speaker 1: muscle is that that when you're using your muscle you're 438 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:09,160 Speaker 1: producing a wide range of myokines, these these messenger molecules 439 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: that that basically signal to all of our organs to 440 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: be healthier. And for me, it's it's nature's polyphormacy myokines. 441 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 1: And so if you lose a lot of muscle, you're 442 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:25,760 Speaker 1: losing some of nature's best medicine. That's that's really I 443 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,760 Speaker 1: don't think people are thinking about that exactly. 444 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:30,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of like, you know, these signaling molecules 445 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,119 Speaker 2: are signaling to your body that you are safe and 446 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:36,199 Speaker 2: you are healthy, and so you need to maintain a 447 00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:40,240 Speaker 2: certain amount of muscle mass to be able to have 448 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,560 Speaker 2: that signaling. As Paul said, a very good point. 449 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,320 Speaker 1: And let's bring this back to inflammation. So, as you've 450 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,920 Speaker 1: rightly pointed out, you know, chronic systemic inflammation is the 451 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: driver of pretty much all of the degenerative diseases. And 452 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 1: I mean muscle is anti inflammatory, exercises anti inflammator. But 453 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: for people who are concerned about inflammation, and is there 454 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:10,360 Speaker 1: in your longevity program certain foods that you would steer 455 00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:16,360 Speaker 1: people towards, uncertain supplements that you have seen or used 456 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,040 Speaker 1: that can help to combat inflammation. 457 00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 2: One hundred percent I think actually the top one I 458 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:25,840 Speaker 2: believe is vitamin D M. That's you know, terms of 459 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:29,680 Speaker 2: in terms of just the scope of studies, and that 460 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,880 Speaker 2: the most ideal thing is to try and get your 461 00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 2: vitamin D from the sunlight if you can, yeah, because 462 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:39,360 Speaker 2: then you're getting sulfated vitamin D, which is the ideal. 463 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,840 Speaker 2: But I'm not against using supplements, particularly if you're using 464 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:48,680 Speaker 2: vitamin K and other fat soluble vitamins at the same 465 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,719 Speaker 2: time and magnesium, et cetera. And the key is you've 466 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,360 Speaker 2: got to be quite broad in your supplementation. You don't 467 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:58,040 Speaker 2: want to be just doing one thing like I'm going 468 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 2: to have a heap of vitamin C and nothing else, 469 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:04,800 Speaker 2: because that's when you can start developing oxalate problems, you know, 470 00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:06,600 Speaker 2: same thing. So you don't want to hear if you 471 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 2: just have vitamin D and nothing else, again, you haven't 472 00:30:09,920 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 2: got balance. You can start bringing calcium out of tissues 473 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 2: and so so. So vitamin D is huge. I think 474 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 2: vitamin vitamin is important for cardiovascular inflammation. And then there's 475 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,640 Speaker 2: many kind of what we call phenolic compounds, which are 476 00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:31,240 Speaker 2: just natural plant compounds, and that's that's where you talk 477 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 2: about circumen and vera trill and green tea extract, broccoli sprouts, 478 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,400 Speaker 2: and interestingly those same compounds turn out to be anti 479 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:43,360 Speaker 2: cancer as well. 480 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:50,200 Speaker 1: And curcumin is pretty interesting. And and your heritage, I 481 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:55,040 Speaker 1: presume is from India. Yes, And it's really interesting, isn't it? 482 00:30:55,080 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: The soaring reates of obesity and diabetes, but relatively low 483 00:31:01,680 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: levels of Alzheimer's and dementia, Because often you would see 484 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: with those high rates of diabetes, like you know, type 485 00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:16,240 Speaker 1: three diabetes, Alzheimer's is often called tapti diabetes. I've heard 486 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,040 Speaker 1: some people suggest that it could be the high amounts 487 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:24,080 Speaker 1: of curcumen that that's in the diet from the turmeric 488 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:26,600 Speaker 1: that's in the curry. Any commentary on that. 489 00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,120 Speaker 2: It could well be. And there's many other I mean, 490 00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 2: you could say in the Indian cooking system, there's many 491 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,720 Speaker 2: many spices used, like so the gunr is also useful. 492 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:42,680 Speaker 2: Coriander can be helpful with heavy metals, et cetera, et cetera. 493 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:45,320 Speaker 2: There's many many compounds. The black peppers in there as well, 494 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:48,360 Speaker 2: which helps the turmeric, the kirkumen from the turmeric to 495 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,480 Speaker 2: be better absorbed. So there's many many compounds that are 496 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 2: being used in the food which are really making that 497 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:58,680 Speaker 2: food more medicinal. 498 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,240 Speaker 1: And that brings you back to earlier on when you 499 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: were talking about polyphenols and flavonoids and all of these 500 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:14,120 Speaker 1: plant compounds, that that we are really only beginning to 501 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:19,520 Speaker 1: see what these things do, and I think that leads 502 00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:23,600 Speaker 1: towards that we should be getting we should be eating 503 00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:29,320 Speaker 1: real food that has this stuff in high amounts, right 504 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: in a in a manner that's easily digestible by the 505 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: human body, you know, you know. So my thing is 506 00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: we've been we've been around for hundreds of thousands of 507 00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,120 Speaker 1: years as our species and back in our lineage millions 508 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:45,640 Speaker 1: of years interacting with these compounds that we now know 509 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,680 Speaker 1: play lots of roles in chemical reactions inside our bodies. 510 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,480 Speaker 1: So from that, do you emphasize when people are on 511 00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 1: a diet, are you emphasize eating a broad reinnge of 512 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,440 Speaker 1: foods so that they're getting a broad reich of these things? 513 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,520 Speaker 2: Yes, one hundred percent, and particularly getting a broad range 514 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 2: of colors means that you're getting a range of different 515 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 2: phytochemicals in your food. So yeah, if you want to 516 00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:19,680 Speaker 2: have a diverse microbiome, you have to have many, many 517 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,840 Speaker 2: different foods Now, Unfortunately, when people get on well, quite 518 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,280 Speaker 2: often their diet becomes quite restricted because there's various foods 519 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,720 Speaker 2: they become intolerant to. But one of the big things 520 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,640 Speaker 2: I talk about, Paul, is that when you start recovering 521 00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 2: from a chronic illness, you shouldn't just relax and do 522 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,280 Speaker 2: nothing else. You should be thinking of then going into 523 00:33:41,320 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 2: a longevity program because you probably have affected your longevity 524 00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: through that illness process. And so therefore, yeah, it's very 525 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 2: important once you recover from an illness to then bring 526 00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,840 Speaker 2: in a much greater diversity in the range of foods 527 00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 2: that you're eating, and also then start getting the exercise 528 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 2: and the fitness going again, getting your strength training going, 529 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,800 Speaker 2: et cetera. So it's not enough to just feel like 530 00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,680 Speaker 2: you no longer have a specific condition. You really want 531 00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 2: to get to the stage where you're truly achieving health 532 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 2: that's going to be enduring health. 533 00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: Yeah. No, look, that's a very good point. So on 534 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,120 Speaker 1: the topic of the microbiome, are you a fan of 535 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:31,560 Speaker 1: microbiome testing or do you think that it's not yet 536 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:36,279 Speaker 1: at the point where getting the testing can lead you 537 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:41,440 Speaker 1: into tailored interventions, whether their dietary or supplements to improve 538 00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: I mean, do we know enough about the microbiome yet 539 00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:48,759 Speaker 1: to start to play believers? 540 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's a great question, and I think 541 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,160 Speaker 2: we are getting there. I think we are getting there. 542 00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:56,319 Speaker 2: I guess what we don't have at this point is 543 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 2: the studies which give us the you know, the long 544 00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:05,000 Speaker 2: time data on you know, for instance, adjusting someone's microbiome 545 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:10,560 Speaker 2: with prebiotics and probiotics and etcetera. So we still I 546 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 2: still see it as being fairly early stage, but the 547 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 2: technology is improving very greatly, and so you can quite 548 00:35:18,120 --> 00:35:21,120 Speaker 2: easily find out, for instance, is someone low in those 549 00:35:21,160 --> 00:35:25,480 Speaker 2: beer rate producers that just keep the gut healthy, do 550 00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:29,160 Speaker 2: they have massive pathogens in the gut? Like, I think 551 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:33,799 Speaker 2: those broad categories are significant for sure. 552 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:38,319 Speaker 1: And interestingly, talking about pathogens, I remember we were talking 553 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,160 Speaker 1: the other day about our dogs and womming our dogs 554 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: right and doing that regularly, and then it brought me 555 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:50,000 Speaker 1: back to when I was a kid, that we would 556 00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,320 Speaker 1: regularly get warmed, right, And that seems to be something 557 00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:58,439 Speaker 1: that has just gone nigh that you know, I don't 558 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: even think of you worming on my kids right, Like, 559 00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:10,200 Speaker 1: what is that? Because there is less of those infections 560 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:12,840 Speaker 1: around today? Or is it just something that was actually 561 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:15,440 Speaker 1: a good practice that we've just lost sight of. 562 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, great question. I haven't looked at the incidents specifically 563 00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 2: of worms in this generation since the last one, but 564 00:36:23,280 --> 00:36:28,279 Speaker 2: in general, we're moving towards you know, greater hygiene, and 565 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:32,160 Speaker 2: of course that's that's had its benefits, but there's also 566 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,279 Speaker 2: the downsides of that. And you know, there's the whole 567 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:41,279 Speaker 2: hygiene hypothesis which suggests that the shift towards allergic and 568 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:45,799 Speaker 2: autoimmune disease maybe because of the lack of exposure to 569 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:51,080 Speaker 2: certain microorganisms in young life. So there may be something 570 00:36:51,120 --> 00:36:53,399 Speaker 2: to be said for that, The fact that we used 571 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 2: to play in the dirt and and you know, and 572 00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 2: eat a little bit of dirt, et cetera, and have 573 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:04,600 Speaker 2: this wide array of different microorganisms that we were exposed 574 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 2: to and developed immune our immune systems from. 575 00:37:07,760 --> 00:37:10,920 Speaker 1: Mmmm. Yeah, I think I think that is is pretty important, 576 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:13,840 Speaker 1: and we see it consistently, right, people who are born 577 00:37:13,880 --> 00:37:18,000 Speaker 1: in farms have much more diverse microbiomes than people who 578 00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:21,799 Speaker 1: are born in cities, and its diversity seems to be 579 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:25,680 Speaker 1: pretty key, doesn't it Having a wide which is why 580 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:28,200 Speaker 1: you know, often, particularly in the fitness industry, standard I've 581 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: been involved in fitness industry for nearly twenty years over here, 582 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: and and there's a lot of people in the fitness 583 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:37,200 Speaker 1: industry who are very regimented around their diet, and they 584 00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:42,279 Speaker 1: eat very healthily, but very narrowly, okay, and they're they're 585 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:48,399 Speaker 1: eating pretty much the same food week on week. Is 586 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,719 Speaker 1: that a potential problem in your view? 587 00:37:52,440 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 2: Well, it's not gonna Yeah, it's not going to encourage 588 00:37:55,320 --> 00:37:59,680 Speaker 2: new bacteria and organisms to come in. Uh So, you 589 00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 2: know what one of the advantages of that, And I 590 00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:05,360 Speaker 2: have heard certain personal trainers recommend that one advantage of 591 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,200 Speaker 2: that is you know, you're getting a certain amount of 592 00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,080 Speaker 2: approaching and fat and carbohydrates, and you can regulate that 593 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,560 Speaker 2: by having the same meals. But yes, one of the 594 00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 2: downsides could be on the microbiome. And just the other 595 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 2: thought I wanted to complete was that it's not just 596 00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,120 Speaker 2: what you eat though, it's also what you breathe in. 597 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 2: And so you alluded to that by talking about the 598 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,240 Speaker 2: microbiome of those who were brought up on a farm. 599 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 2: So one of the big things I wanted to talk 600 00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:39,400 Speaker 2: about is going back to a life where we explore 601 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:45,320 Speaker 2: nature in various elements and not just through screens. So 602 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:51,360 Speaker 2: the move to words a much greater connection with the 603 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 2: Internet and social media and so on has meant that 604 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 2: the average time a person spends in nature is much 605 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:02,560 Speaker 2: lower now. If you would if if you had asked me, 606 00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,919 Speaker 2: what's the first thing you could do for your microbiome, 607 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 2: I would probably say, get your shoes off, go for 608 00:39:08,880 --> 00:39:13,560 Speaker 2: a walk in the grass and go out into a 609 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:19,040 Speaker 2: forest or some kind of natural environment and take do 610 00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,480 Speaker 2: some deep breathing because we also breathe. 611 00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: Very interesting, Yeah, this is there's such interesting reach. I 612 00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:29,560 Speaker 1: actually wrote a chapter in this in my book. And 613 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,160 Speaker 1: you know, all the studies coming out about forest bathing, 614 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,760 Speaker 1: and I think it's Yoku in Japan where they're seeing 615 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,400 Speaker 1: when you spend time in a forest there's lower levels 616 00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:44,000 Speaker 1: of inflammation and and other things in your blood are changed, 617 00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:50,640 Speaker 1: but your microbiome actually improves because you are ingesting some 618 00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:54,160 Speaker 1: of the microbiome from the forest, which just you know, 619 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:56,359 Speaker 1: kind of spins you out a little bit, doesn't it. 620 00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, it does. It changes the way you think about it, 621 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,600 Speaker 2: because I guess you could say the way we've been 622 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:07,879 Speaker 2: brought up to think is very narrow variables. It's like, okay, microbiome. 623 00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 2: It's about what we eat. Okay, change this little variable 624 00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:15,480 Speaker 2: and we should be fine, right, But actually we probably 625 00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,319 Speaker 2: need to be a lot more broad in the way 626 00:40:17,320 --> 00:40:20,640 Speaker 2: we're thinking about it. And really it takes you to 627 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:24,920 Speaker 2: thinking about life in a different way, doesn't it. It's like, 628 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,120 Speaker 2: you know, it takes us back to this concept of 629 00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:32,680 Speaker 2: health is connection. Health is about connection with the food 630 00:40:32,719 --> 00:40:36,040 Speaker 2: we eat. So ideally the most ideal way of getting 631 00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:40,719 Speaker 2: your food is through farmers' markets and through local farmers 632 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,319 Speaker 2: who themself produce that food. When you think about that, 633 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:49,440 Speaker 2: you're then only one step removed from being the person 634 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:54,040 Speaker 2: producing that food, which is you know, of course ancestrally 635 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 2: the way we used to do things. So you're developing 636 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:02,120 Speaker 2: much more of a connection to that food through through 637 00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:08,360 Speaker 2: taking out all of those intermediate steps, and then connection 638 00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:13,560 Speaker 2: with the living planet. So again not just walking on 639 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:18,000 Speaker 2: it with shoes on and you know, basically looking at 640 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:21,600 Speaker 2: things from a distance, but actually getting your shoes on 641 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:26,360 Speaker 2: and your shoes off rather and your feet on the ground. Well, firstly, 642 00:41:26,440 --> 00:41:29,120 Speaker 2: that has a huge amount of benefits in terms of 643 00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:35,799 Speaker 2: grounding and normalizing your circadian rhythms and discharging EMF or 644 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,720 Speaker 2: electromagnetic frequencies that we're being exposed to all day long, 645 00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 2: assuming you're in a normal urban environment through Wi Fi 646 00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:48,960 Speaker 2: and through mobile phone radiation. 647 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:52,840 Speaker 1: So I if you cendy. But if you'd have asked 648 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:57,400 Speaker 1: me ten years ago about grinding, I probably would have 649 00:41:57,480 --> 00:42:01,160 Speaker 1: said it's fluffy bullshit toted by the crystal waving brigade. 650 00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:06,319 Speaker 1: But I have completely changed my mind about it that 651 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,319 Speaker 1: to the point where you're talking, because I dug into 652 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,879 Speaker 1: it and read lots of studies on it. And when 653 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,759 Speaker 1: you get your feet or your your body surfaces in 654 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:20,719 Speaker 1: contact with the surfaces of the earth, as you said, 655 00:42:20,840 --> 00:42:23,279 Speaker 1: whether it's grass or sand, you know it has to 656 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,360 Speaker 1: be the earth, and it has to be our contact. 657 00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:32,960 Speaker 1: There's the electrical charge in your body actually changes, doesn't it. 658 00:42:33,040 --> 00:42:36,959 Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, we pull electrons from the earth and our 659 00:42:37,360 --> 00:42:44,360 Speaker 2: positive charge, which comes from being in contact with electromagnetic radiation, 660 00:42:44,920 --> 00:42:48,319 Speaker 2: is discharged into the earth. So there's an exchange that 661 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,520 Speaker 2: takes place, and that's very beneficial for us. 662 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,960 Speaker 1: And we mentioned earlier on about inflammation. I've seen some 663 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,480 Speaker 1: studies showing that it can regular grind. It can actually 664 00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,680 Speaker 1: lure it in inflammation as well, right, which is is 665 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:12,000 Speaker 1: pretty cool stuff, h