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Speaker 1: Welcome to this special episode of Headgame. I'm AMT Middleton.

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Speaker 1: Many people dream of fame and fortune in their lives,

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Speaker 1: but those who have had it will tell you life

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Speaker 1: in the spotlight isn't always as bright as it seems.

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Speaker 1: Today we look back on three men whose talent brought

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Speaker 1: them into the public sphere. Shortly chronic addiction almost ruined

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Speaker 1: his career and ended his life.

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Speaker 2: So what was Rapper three? Sixties wake up call? But first?

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Speaker 1: Pete Murray was a late bloomer on the Australia's music scene.

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Speaker 1: He spoke to me about how his father's death at

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Speaker 1: a young age influenced his music career.

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Speaker 3: So I was twenty six and I sort of come

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Speaker 3: back and started to play a little bit of rugby again.

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Speaker 3: And at the same time I's got a bit more

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Speaker 3: confident and started to play a couple of covers gigs.

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Speaker 3: So music was starting to earn some money with music

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Speaker 3: and the rugby. Halfway through that season, I remember I

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Speaker 3: buy this finger just dislocated it, you know, And I thought, geez,

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Speaker 3: I got a chance here, have actually earning some money

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Speaker 3: doing music. And if I keep playing this game, if

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Speaker 3: I if I damage my fingers, then that's not going

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Speaker 3: to be it's not.

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Speaker 4: Gonna help me.

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Speaker 3: So halfway through that year, I stopped playing, and I

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Speaker 3: think that was the time. It was a bit disappointing

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Speaker 3: because I think that's your sporting career pretty much.

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Speaker 5: That's it.

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Speaker 3: Not that it was much of a career of that'stage anyway,

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Speaker 3: but it was kind of like, once again, these things

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Speaker 3: were just sort of pushing me in this other direction.

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Speaker 4: So music became.

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Speaker 3: I thought, I'll just I'll just play covers and you know,

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Speaker 3: and then I'll i'll still sort of think along with

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Speaker 3: my with the natural medicine that I've been doing, so

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Speaker 3: I'll have a clinic and be doing working with sportsmen

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Speaker 3: and women. And then I did that for about two years.

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Speaker 3: But three months in I went, this, this is not

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Speaker 3: going to be for me. If I want to actually

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Speaker 3: earn money, I'm going to have to write my own songs.

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Speaker 3: So that was the moment I went, Okay, this is

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Speaker 3: where I'm at. And I was twenty six or twenty seven,

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Speaker 3: and I want, I need to write my own songs.

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Speaker 3: So this is kind of getting late in life to

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Speaker 3: be thinking about music because music is a very I

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Speaker 3: think it's the hardest industry to have success in it's

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Speaker 3: extremely hard. But at that stage I just had this

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Speaker 3: belief that I could do it and that did nothing.

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Speaker 4: Was going to stop me.

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Speaker 3: I have that come for I think from my early

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Speaker 3: sporting days, you know, having that drive of being the

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Speaker 3: best in you know, firstly the one hundred meters and

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Speaker 3: then the eight hundred meters are changing, and sort of

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Speaker 3: I think you've got to be used to change in

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Speaker 3: your life.

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Speaker 4: Things happened and things change, and you've.

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Speaker 2: Got to go to ability.

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Speaker 4: So this is all.

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Speaker 3: Happening through my life anyway. And then suddenly music came

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Speaker 3: into it. So I'm going, this is something that I'm

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Speaker 3: interested in doing. So I started to write and for

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Speaker 3: the next couple of years I played a covers gig

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Speaker 3: just at one bar, did two nights a week, and

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Speaker 3: did a bit of work with some mates during the week,

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Speaker 3: some builder mates. Because I'd sort of lost interest in

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Speaker 3: this sport and the well or least, you know, in

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Speaker 3: working in a clinic, I thought, I don't want to

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Speaker 3: go to the one place anymore and be there. I

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Speaker 3: want to travel the world. What can I do the

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Speaker 3: travels the world? So a bigger picture thing for me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, and I sort of molded in with the music.

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Speaker 3: And it was a lifestyle choice to mate because I

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Speaker 3: don't know if you remember, but my dad died when

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Speaker 3: I was eighteen. He was only forty seven, so that

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Speaker 3: changed my whole perspective on life too. And he worked

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Speaker 3: as a watchmaker jewelren in the one shop, sold his

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Speaker 3: business to another guy. He worked for that guy for

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Speaker 3: twelve months. At the end of that year had a

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Speaker 3: heart attack and died. Him and Mama just bought a caravan.

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Speaker 3: They were about to travel around Australia and enjoy their life, and.

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Speaker 4: Dad died, and I was pretty pissed off about that.

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Speaker 3: I was angry about it, and I learned a lot

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Speaker 3: from it, unfortunately, from his loss about what I didn't

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Speaker 3: want to happen to me. So I wanted to experience travel.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to make sure I had time with my

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Speaker 3: family and my kids. What was that job that I

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Speaker 3: needed to find? And at that stage, I was still

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Speaker 3: just tinkering with music, so I didn't think that was

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Speaker 3: the job.

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Speaker 4: I was still looking for it.

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Speaker 3: As I started to write, I still wasn't sure that

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Speaker 3: was the job either, but I just had this passion

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Speaker 3: for it. So I kind of story is kind of

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Speaker 3: famous as well, because I started quite late and you

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Speaker 3: did even doing And I recorded my first independent album

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Speaker 3: at the age of thirty, which is old. Yeah, I

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Speaker 3: was an old and I had people. I had people

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Speaker 3: saying to me like, you know, you know, what do

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Speaker 3: you think of the theory that you know, if you

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Speaker 3: haven't made in the music business by the time you're

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Speaker 3: twenty four, you're never going to make it. And I

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Speaker 3: just thought, well, that's bullshit. You know, you write a

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Speaker 3: good song, A good song is a good song, and

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Speaker 3: people will hear it. That's what I believed absolutely. So

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Speaker 3: I wasn't a pop act. I wasn't someone that was

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Speaker 3: pretty and danced, you know. I was like, I had

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Speaker 3: wrote songs that meant something to people. And I think

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Speaker 3: that's the thing that when you know my songs, people

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Speaker 3: started getting too my music. They started to have a

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Speaker 3: real connection to the lyrics.

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Speaker 1: When do you feel like people you were getting real

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Speaker 1: traction in the music industry. And what I love about

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Speaker 1: what you just said there, Pizza, why all this is

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Speaker 1: happening as well? You know, you've got the life lessons

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Speaker 1: from your dad's passing. You want to travel the world,

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Speaker 1: you've sort of put the sport to one side. And

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Speaker 1: I suppose with a music career, you have to be fully.

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Speaker 2: Embedded in it, don't you.

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Speaker 1: Like you said, you know, the covers aren't good enough.

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Speaker 1: You have to start writing. You have to start, you know,

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Speaker 1: investing every penny that you've got into yourself. And you know,

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Speaker 1: when do you actually when does it the penny dropped you?

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Speaker 2: Actually? No, I can make you know, I can break through.

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Speaker 3: Basically when when I came out and played my first

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Speaker 3: original gig. That's when I have to stop doing all

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Speaker 3: the covers things. You can't do both. So am I

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Speaker 3: going to be a covers artist? Or am I going

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Speaker 3: to be an original artist? And once you become original

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Speaker 3: singer songwriter, it's you're not earning much money, You're not

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Speaker 3: getting paid much. That's when it becomes that that's when

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Speaker 3: life becomes to.

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Speaker 1: Take me through the day in the life of a songwriter.

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Speaker 1: So how did that change?

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Speaker 4: Well, I borrowed.

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Speaker 3: Money from my sister and her husband the time to

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Speaker 3: try and to record my first independent album, and I

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Speaker 3: got some really good reviews from that, which gave me

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Speaker 3: the confidence. So you've got you've got to sort of

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Speaker 3: pick up little things along the way that gives you

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Speaker 3: confidence in your belief in yourself when you're going Remember

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Speaker 3: getting a great article written on me in the Australian

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Speaker 3: Australian newspaper and someone said, look, this guy could be

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Speaker 3: really huge if we had if a major label took

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Speaker 3: him on. And back in those days you kind of

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Speaker 3: needed a major label to.

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Speaker 4: Give you a leg.

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Speaker 3: It was either like, you know, here you can be independent.

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Speaker 3: If you're getting Triple j support, then you can do okay.

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Speaker 3: But if you don't have Triple Jane, you don't have commercial.

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Speaker 3: You've got nothing. And so many sort of fell into

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Speaker 3: that in between and there's nothing there. So looks as

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Speaker 3: I went on, I did my independent album and it

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Speaker 3: was really hard because you just don't have money, you know,

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Speaker 3: and I'm thirty and I've got mates. At this stage,

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Speaker 3: I moved to Melbourne to try and from Brisbane to

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Speaker 3: Melbourne to give me a really good girl, I had

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Speaker 3: to give it everything I had otherwise it just wasn't

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Speaker 3: going to work. And I remember times when I was

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Speaker 3: digging in the cupboard for food because there was just nothing.

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Speaker 3: I had no money and I was whatever I had

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Speaker 3: their you know, counter bake beans or whatever.

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Speaker 4: Just living off whatever.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was.

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Speaker 4: Mulded toast, you know, to eat stuff. It was. It

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Speaker 4: was really hard.

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Speaker 3: And I remember getting to the point where I hadn't

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Speaker 3: quite finished my studies in the natural medicine. So I

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Speaker 3: thought got the point that I I can't do this anymore.

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Speaker 4: It's just too hard. I think of this. So JO

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Speaker 4: was getting closer to thirty one, thirty two, and you.

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Speaker 2: Get you're digging up a lot of debt. You're getting

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Speaker 2: yourself all right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, my sister, and you know, it was just I

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Speaker 3: think my other mates too were starting to get good jobs,

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Speaker 3: are having families, and I had I had nothing, you know.

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Speaker 3: So there's plan B was to go back and finish

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Speaker 3: the studies and I'll go back and do you know,

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Speaker 3: work natural medicine again.

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Speaker 4: I was like, well, if I have to, I have

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Speaker 4: to do then, you know.

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Speaker 3: I mean, it's just kind of a lined up I

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Speaker 3: had four years earlier. But when I got signed to

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Speaker 3: the label, a friend of mine had a friend who

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Speaker 3: worked in the accounts department at Sony, So they said, look,

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Speaker 3: can we send a little you know, four track EP

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Speaker 3: to them.

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Speaker 1: You know, you're tapping into every everything you've got and

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Speaker 1: you have to every every penny your your take, so

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Speaker 1: you're literally exhausting all options at this stage.

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Speaker 3: Back in those days, it was just wasn't it was

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Speaker 3: an email, you know, you've got to physically drop off

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Speaker 3: the CD, you know, And so I did that, dropped

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Speaker 3: it off, and then I forgot about it. So then I,

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Speaker 3: you know, off the good reviews I was getting. I

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Speaker 3: had someone at Sony going interested in, you know, getting

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Speaker 3: me signed of the label, and I gave them my album,

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Speaker 3: the new independent album that had sort of got lost

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Speaker 3: in somewhere, and he was this guy's based in Melbourne,

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Speaker 3: but the main guy's up here in Sydney. So he's

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Speaker 3: contacted them and said, look, you know, if you guys

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Speaker 3: heard this new album, because you know, this guy's starting

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Speaker 3: to get some good.

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Speaker 4: Buzz on him. And they said, we haven't. We can't

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Speaker 4: find the album.

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Speaker 3: But there's been this four track EP by Pete Murray

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Speaker 3: that's been apparently circulating through the office here at Sony

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Speaker 3: and everyone loves it for the last four years or something,

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Speaker 3: you know, like is it the same guy? So that

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Speaker 3: I've had my contract in Melbourne going, was that you

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Speaker 3: that did? I said, I forgot about it. Yeah, yes

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Speaker 3: it is. It's all these things lined up and said,

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Speaker 3: we want to come down and play a gig for

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Speaker 3: some and then it's you know, I got signed from there.

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Speaker 1: So take me back to that moment when you got

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Speaker 1: signed people, because that's that's a huge moment, you know,

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Speaker 1: not only for you, a huge moment for music. Was

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Speaker 1: it progressive or do Was there a moment where they

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Speaker 1: just want to hear the contract?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I knew they wanted to sign me. You know,

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Speaker 3: I played a good, a great gig for them. There's

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Speaker 3: also this just a bit of a swell, but you're

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Speaker 3: still not out of the woods, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: And so I was like, I was nervous about signing

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Speaker 3: with it because I've been independent for a while and

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Speaker 3: you hear these stories about labels and how the deals

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Speaker 3: aren't so good and the deals aren't so good, but

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Speaker 3: that's your only option back then. So I kind of

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Speaker 3: said to myself, Look, if I don't do it, I'm

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Speaker 3: probably going to start the death.

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Speaker 4: This isn't going to work.

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Speaker 3: But if I if I can give these guys the

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Speaker 3: best album I can I can do, then they're going

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Speaker 3: to take it as far as they can.

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Speaker 4: That was my attitude.

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Speaker 3: So I recorded the first album called FeelA, first major

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Speaker 3: release through those guys Feeler, and I recorded that, and I,

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Speaker 3: to be honest, I sort of fell into a bit

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Speaker 3: of a.

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Speaker 4: World of doubt about that. I just didn't think it

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Speaker 4: was good enough.

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Speaker 1: And when it didn't think that they promoted it well

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Speaker 1: enough or mucked olger, you didn't think that you'd done

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Speaker 1: a good enough job.

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Speaker 3: The album and gang Busters that went gang buses. But

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Speaker 3: I was still sitting there, going, this is just not

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Speaker 3: good enough, you know. I sort of foun into this.

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Speaker 3: We call it post album blues, where you've done the

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Speaker 3: product but you can't hear anything good about it to.

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Speaker 1: Put the album together, and you must have thought to

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Speaker 1: put it to someone like God, this is this album's good?

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Speaker 1: How does it go from that to I think that's

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Speaker 1: really interesting what you said about the post album blues.

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Speaker 2: That's yeah, I've never heard of that before.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what it is, and I can't explain

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Speaker 3: it because but I couldn't listen to that album. And

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Speaker 3: I didn't listen to that album from start to finish,

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Speaker 3: because I listened to sort of, you know, as the

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Speaker 3: mixers came in a little bit of the songs, and

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Speaker 3: I just I just couldn't hear it anything good about it.

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Speaker 3: Everyone was telling me this is a great album, and

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Speaker 3: then when they put it out, it was kind of,

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Speaker 3: you know, it was kind of acoustic roots music, which

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Speaker 3: back then it was all pop before this came out

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Speaker 3: and this hit and it just went bang. It was

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Speaker 3: massive and it became like the biggest act in the

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Speaker 3: country there for a number of years. But at the

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Speaker 3: start of it, I'm sort of thinking this is still

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Speaker 3: why do people like this?

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Speaker 4: I just couldn't get it. So I didn't listen to

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Speaker 4: this album for eight years.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't do it. Every time I put it on,

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Speaker 3: just turn it off. I couldn't listen to it. I

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Speaker 3: don't know what it was. Eight years later, I got

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Speaker 3: a text message from this is when I've had.

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Speaker 4: A lot of success.

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Speaker 2: Interesting.

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Speaker 3: I got a text message from Darren Middleton from a

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Speaker 3: band called powder Finger. Darren just text me said, mate,

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Speaker 3: just listen to Feeler.

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Speaker 4: What a great album.

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Speaker 3: And I remember thinking to myself, is it I've got

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Speaker 3: to listen to this album from start to finished because

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Speaker 3: I just hadn't done it. So I thought put it

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Speaker 3: on because what you do is you kind of judge

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Speaker 3: your stuff too much. And you know, I thought, I'm

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Speaker 3: going to put it on, I'm not going to judge it.

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Speaker 3: I'm listened to it from start to finish and not

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Speaker 3: turn it off. And so I did, and I got

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Speaker 3: to the end of the album eight years later and

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Speaker 3: I went, oh shit, actually that's a really good album.

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Speaker 3: I put myself through health eight years.

291
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Speaker 1: Matty John's is a fixture of them media and sports

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Speaker 1: welds these days. Growing up in the Hunter Valley with

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Speaker 1: a family of coal miners, Matty decided early on that

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Speaker 1: mining wasn't for him and set his sights.

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Speaker 2: On rugby league.

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Speaker 1: Coupled with a friendly but robust sibling rivalry with brother Andrew,

297
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Speaker 1: Matty took the sports by storm, trusting hard work and

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Speaker 1: strategy to give him the winning edge.

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Speaker 5: To be honest, I always had the ambition, the ultimate

300
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Speaker 5: ambition to be able to play league and rebul league

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Speaker 5: Nazi Robert in the Sydney competition. That was it, That

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Speaker 5: was the big comp.

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Speaker 2: And where did that come from? Where did that dream

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Speaker 2: come from? For your dad?

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Speaker 5: One of my earliest memories is is I can smell

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Speaker 5: the kerosoon and they used to mark the sidelines with

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Speaker 5: the Carosoon and you know, I was a young kid

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Speaker 5: and going there and I just remember, remember I can

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Speaker 5: smell it now, and so that's all I grew up

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Speaker 5: in and and in my town where I come from,

311
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Speaker 5: if you were a rugby league player and a good one,

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Speaker 5: then you were somebody, you know, like you were fucking somebody.

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Speaker 5: And so I used to watch those blakes and the

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Speaker 5: way they were treated and how they were treated differently

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Speaker 5: and things like that, and I said, I want to

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Speaker 5: fuck me one of those guys, one of my dad's

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Speaker 5: mates and things like that, you know, like these blokes.

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Speaker 5: It wasn't until I actually got older into my sort

319
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Speaker 5: of early teams that I realized there was good money

320
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Speaker 5: in professional sport. I just wanted to play it to

321
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Speaker 5: be somebody, you know. It was a far distant dream.

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Speaker 5: It was a star, far far away where my brother

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Speaker 5: Andrew was always going to be the one with Andrew

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Speaker 5: whatever it was he was. I mean, he's built, he's

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Speaker 5: like yourself, so he's built thick to the ground that

326
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Speaker 5: but he's always a freak at any sport like anything.

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Speaker 5: Like I remember he took up surfing and about three

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Speaker 5: weeks after he took up surfing. He ended himself into

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Speaker 5: a surf competition. I mean we grew up an hour

330
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Speaker 5: in land and against these blokes have been surfing five six,

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Speaker 5: seven years, it's kids, and beat them.

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Speaker 2: Born with surfboards in the hand.

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Speaker 5: That's right. And he beat them. And this the guy

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Speaker 5: who ran it fell like, called Terry McKenna, I still

335
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Speaker 5: remember his name. And he said to Andrew, I reckon,

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Speaker 5: I could turn you into a world champion. And where

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Speaker 5: do you live and he said cesnot And he goes,

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Speaker 5: I refuse to believe that. He said, yeah, said Andrew

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Speaker 5: has always had this amazing hand eye coordination. If I

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Speaker 5: went to watch him play in junior raby league, he'd

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Speaker 5: get the worst player in his side and say get

342
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Speaker 5: in the end goal. I'll bring the ball to you

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00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,040
Speaker 5: and beat everyone give him the ball. It was a

344
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Speaker 5: little bit like back in the when I was in

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Speaker 5: my radio breakfast radio days, interviewed Wayne Gretzky, the great

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Speaker 5: Wayne Gretzky. But I remember speaking to him when he

347
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Speaker 5: was growing up in Edmonton, and I said to him,

348
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Speaker 5: we are always going to be and he goes, yeah,

349
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Speaker 5: I was always He said, people would drive three hundred

350
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Speaker 5: miles when I was eight years old to watch me

351
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Speaker 5: play ice hockey. Now, not to that extent with Andrew,

352
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Speaker 5: but people would go to what to the junior football

353
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Speaker 5: to watch this nine year old kid and say him,

354
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Speaker 5: that kid's going to be the best player we've ever

355
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Speaker 5: seen one day, and he and he was.

356
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Speaker 1: Was that annoying for you or at that that age

357
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Speaker 1: or was it an inspiration for you?

358
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Speaker 5: I would say probably a bit of both. And you know,

359
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Speaker 5: backwards and forwards a little bit, because I'm the polar

360
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Speaker 5: opposite Nandrew in so many ways we are in personality,

361
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Speaker 5: we are as and as far as sport was concerned.

362
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Speaker 5: For Andrew, it was just get out there and go.

363
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Speaker 5: For me, I had to work my hand. I had

364
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Speaker 5: and even like and if, like, if I took you

365
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Speaker 5: to my house, now there's a cupboard to open up.

366
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Speaker 5: There's fifty exercise books just stacked. And that's me waking

367
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Speaker 5: up in the middle of the night writing notes and

368
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Speaker 5: just writing and over and over for me to get

369
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Speaker 5: to where I had to get where I wanted to get.

370
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Speaker 5: I was under no illusions, right, I have no I

371
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Speaker 5: have a a really over a savage, mistrusting talent. For me,

372
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Speaker 5: it was just hard work. And I actually got to

373
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Speaker 5: the point that I thought, okay, you know, in my

374
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Speaker 5: in my teens, I didn't make the school football side,

375
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Speaker 5: and I said, what am I going to do here?

376
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Speaker 5: And I just thought, right, I'm just going to train

377
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Speaker 5: harder than anyone. I'm going to work harder than anyone.

378
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,320
Speaker 5: I'm gonna I'm gonna watch more football and I watch tape.

379
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Speaker 5: I'm going to do this. I'm going to do that.

380
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Speaker 5: I'm going to develop a fearlessness. I'm going to develop

381
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Speaker 5: the discipline to not fear failure.

382
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Speaker 2: How much sacrifice does that take?

383
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Speaker 5: Yep? And it actually burns a hole in you after

384
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 5: a certain p There's there's there's two rewards to the

385
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,680
Speaker 5: sit at the end of it. One is you're if

386
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Speaker 5: you're lucky enough to hit that ambition, you're giving yourself

387
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Speaker 5: the best opportunity to reach that dream. That's one. And

388
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Speaker 5: the other one, which is the one that you don't

389
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,120
Speaker 5: even think about that comes a little later, is when

390
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Speaker 5: you retire from your sport or whatever you do, it's

391
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Speaker 5: what you've learned along the way by grafting. And that's

392
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Speaker 5: the thing that goes away. And that is my work ethic,

393
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,880
Speaker 5: my work ethic and the things that I learned along

394
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Speaker 5: the way to chase my dream when I wasn't never

395
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Speaker 5: going to be good enough have just carried on into

396
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,760
Speaker 5: normal parts of my life. I can recognize situations, I

397
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Speaker 5: can even as far as work organizations just multitude. I

398
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,760
Speaker 5: learned all those lessons from just focusing on one thing

399
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Speaker 5: that I want to do and just chasing it.

400
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:27,919
Speaker 2: And when did that work start for you?

401
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,359
Speaker 1: Do you remember you when you were like, right, listen,

402
00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,040
Speaker 1: my brother Andrew, he's smashing it. Now I need to

403
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,280
Speaker 1: up my game. I need to I need I need

404
00:17:37,320 --> 00:17:38,320
Speaker 1: to start this craft.

405
00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:40,359
Speaker 2: Do you remember? Was it at a young age or

406
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,000
Speaker 2: when did that sort of moment come for you?

407
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,440
Speaker 5: I went the side that Andrew and I played for

408
00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,800
Speaker 5: with the Newcastle Knights. They joined the Big League competition

409
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:53,520
Speaker 5: in nineteen eighty eight. The league expanded. They brought in

410
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:56,879
Speaker 5: the Brisbane Broncos, the Gold Coast and the Newcastle Knights,

411
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,600
Speaker 5: and there was a real pushback in the Newcastle and

412
00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,040
Speaker 5: the coal Fields community because we had a strong domestic

413
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,359
Speaker 5: competition anyway, and there was a fear that was going

414
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Speaker 5: to destroy it. I was pretty happy it was coming in,

415
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,240
Speaker 5: Like I was sort of about I could see both

416
00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 5: sides anyway. But and I would have been seventeen at

417
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:16,680
Speaker 5: that point and the Knights were playing their first ever

418
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,080
Speaker 5: just a trial game against Manly and I went down

419
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 5: to the Oval to watch it. No thirty thousand people

420
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 5: turned up for the trial and I said, fuck, yeah,

421
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:24,720
Speaker 5: this is what I want to do. And I went

422
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Speaker 5: home and I said to my old man, I said, Dad,

423
00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,639
Speaker 5: do you reckon? I'd just be satisfied to play reserve

424
00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:33,640
Speaker 5: grade in the Sydney competition. Do you reckon I could

425
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,680
Speaker 5: do it? And he said, mate, you'll play fucking first grade.

426
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:38,679
Speaker 5: And at the time I was like, right, okay, I

427
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,439
Speaker 5: didn't know whether I believe you or not, but it

428
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Speaker 5: just went on.

429
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Speaker 2: Do you believe in yourself then?

430
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,320
Speaker 1: Because I talk about self belief in a way that

431
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,760
Speaker 1: you know something new that you can only gift yourself

432
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,600
Speaker 1: through committing and realizing what you're capable of. Because when

433
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,600
Speaker 1: people say they believe in you, if you don't believe

434
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:55,320
Speaker 1: in yourself, they're just empty words, right, And it does

435
00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,760
Speaker 1: help when you've got a family member or someone that's

436
00:18:57,800 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 1: close you say that I believe in it gives you

437
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:02,440
Speaker 1: an element of hope. But when he said that to you,

438
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:04,880
Speaker 1: and he believed it.

439
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:06,000
Speaker 2: Did you believe it?

440
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,360
Speaker 5: I would say not at first, And yeah, that really

441
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,600
Speaker 5: ludifier on me, and he gave me motivation. Now that's

442
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,280
Speaker 5: what I did there From that motivation, what I did

443
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,880
Speaker 5: with that motivation, I just trained my balls out, trained

444
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:21,240
Speaker 5: that fucking hard. And what did.

445
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:21,560
Speaker 2: That look like?

446
00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:24,160
Speaker 1: What did that look like just for on a day

447
00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,040
Speaker 1: to day sort of basis matter of you know, any

448
00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:30,520
Speaker 1: youngster listening in or anyone that wants to achieve their dreams,

449
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,040
Speaker 1: what does that look like? You know, that obsession, that discipline,

450
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 1: that sacrifice on the day to day basis.

451
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,639
Speaker 2: When you made that decision no, you're.

452
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: Going to play for the first team, what did your

453
00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: daily sort of routine look like there?

454
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,439
Speaker 5: Well, I'm sort of getting towards the end of the school,

455
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 5: so it was get up, you know, it might be

456
00:19:46,640 --> 00:19:49,560
Speaker 5: six seven o'clock, go for a long run, you know,

457
00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 5: get back, breakfast, go to school, come back from school,

458
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 5: get across the road to the park that we me

459
00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:57,720
Speaker 5: and Andrew would go and train at, which is called

460
00:19:57,760 --> 00:19:58,800
Speaker 5: John's Park these days.

461
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:03,760
Speaker 2: I just had a big take that one.

462
00:20:03,840 --> 00:20:07,359
Speaker 5: Anyway, and then I trained by myself and then I

463
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:09,240
Speaker 5: got a team training and so.

464
00:20:09,280 --> 00:20:11,359
Speaker 2: For me in it mate, you were in it, so

465
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:12,080
Speaker 2: mate for me.

466
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:14,359
Speaker 5: And even when I started playing first grade and playing

467
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:19,439
Speaker 5: for Australia team, training was icing on top. It was

468
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 5: what you did yourself, those extras to push everyone. It

469
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:26,720
Speaker 5: was almost like and it's just something that's building me

470
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:29,760
Speaker 5: that I can always hear footsteps behind me. Yeah, I

471
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:30,800
Speaker 5: always think that that's.

472
00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:31,720
Speaker 2: They are behind you.

473
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 5: They always come and so mate for.

474
00:20:34,040 --> 00:20:38,520
Speaker 1: Me, someone coming to take your place always you always.

475
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,960
Speaker 2: Someone coming to knock you down as always.

476
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:45,600
Speaker 5: And when I finally got into the nights, I remember

477
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:47,600
Speaker 5: going in, I was playing twenty ones, did some pretty

478
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 5: good stuff and and I was so surprised and proud

479
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,639
Speaker 5: of myself, you know, and then I sort of hit

480
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 5: a plaiterp and first grade. My older Madream was close by.

481
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 5: You know. The things I'd done carry me a certain way.

482
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,120
Speaker 5: And I remember an old Strength and Condition was there

483
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,040
Speaker 5: one day and I walked in. His name was Joe,

484
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:11,800
Speaker 5: Joe A Joe anyway, And then I walked in the

485
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 5: gym and I'm sort of clowning around the gym doing this,

486
00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 5: that and the other. And he walked in and he said,

487
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:18,400
Speaker 5: do you know those people I was talking to and

488
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 5: I know he goes, oh, there you Martha so and so,

489
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,720
Speaker 5: And they said to me, oh, he sunds like a

490
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 5: nice young fellow. Who's that? And he said his name

491
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:29,320
Speaker 5: is Matthew John's and went, okay, does he play for

492
00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,520
Speaker 5: the Knights? He said, mate, he will play if he

493
00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:34,200
Speaker 5: works hard enough in these next two years, he'll play

494
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,879
Speaker 5: for Australia. And again that was the next Like the bunsenbourn,

495
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:39,840
Speaker 5: I got placed under me. And so from there and

496
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,800
Speaker 5: what I did from there, I went right out because

497
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,480
Speaker 5: I went instead of saying, right, oh, let's see how

498
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 5: far I can push, I actually go. I'd think of

499
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 5: my mind, find out what's fucking impossible, then start to

500
00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,440
Speaker 5: pull back from there. So even now I'll do it sometimes.

501
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,119
Speaker 5: Now I'll get there and I'll go right a wake

502
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,399
Speaker 5: out one day and I go, what's something that I

503
00:22:02,440 --> 00:22:05,200
Speaker 5: couldn't do today? I'll do three hundred berbies.

504
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:08,479
Speaker 2: Let's do it, you know, Let's just start knocking them

505
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 2: off one by.

506
00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 5: Start knocking over you and you work your way back

507
00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:13,800
Speaker 5: and it's in your head, right, it's there, that's right.

508
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 5: And that's the thing about it, mate, is and that

509
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 5: does take a toll physically later in my career did,

510
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 5: which we'll get to. But I'd be laying in their

511
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,080
Speaker 5: bed and I'd wake up and my wife would go,

512
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,240
Speaker 5: oh no, not again, and it'd be the exercise book

513
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,840
Speaker 5: and I could stup and just write theories and patterns,

514
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,399
Speaker 5: attacking patterns and things like that for hours.

515
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,600
Speaker 2: Obsessed. Would you think you're obsessed? Obsessed with that of

516
00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:40,119
Speaker 2: your trade?

517
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,080
Speaker 5: Yeah, over the top probably got to the point. I

518
00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 5: remember reading the thing about the great Costure Zoo the Fighter,

519
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 5: and they said that Costure what he would do whenever

520
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:52,760
Speaker 5: he trained coming out of the old Soviet boxing schools

521
00:22:53,119 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 5: he was. He kept a diary of how he trained,

522
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 5: and they said that every single fight he made sure

523
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:02,560
Speaker 5: he did more work than the previous fight. But after

524
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,919
Speaker 5: a while that actually starts to become a counteractive. I

525
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,520
Speaker 5: actually back into micro I started to find that in

526
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 5: the fact that I needed to trust my talent more,

527
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,359
Speaker 5: but I never could. And so you know that that

528
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,280
Speaker 5: over exertion training. Like our coach, who was an Englishman

529
00:23:16,440 --> 00:23:20,320
Speaker 5: from Yorkshire, he used to chase me off the training pack.

530
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,760
Speaker 5: So fucking mate, stop it, Maddie, You've got to stop it.

531
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:24,879
Speaker 5: You're burning yourself out for Sunday and worse than that,

532
00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,120
Speaker 5: maybe he said it's going to cost you your news.

533
00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:30,800
Speaker 2: You're going to make in the red constantly, isn't it.

534
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,280
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's right. But I wouldn't have done it. I

535
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:37,000
Speaker 5: wouldn't unless I was at that mindset. There is no

536
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 5: way in the world I would have achieved what I did.

537
00:23:39,359 --> 00:23:42,000
Speaker 1: When was the moment that you started to realize that

538
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,879
Speaker 1: all your hard work is not only paying off, but

539
00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 1: he's paid off.

540
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 5: I remember being a young guy, it must have been

541
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:53,480
Speaker 5: about nineteen and playing for playing for the Newcomer, and

542
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:56,159
Speaker 5: myself and my brother were coming through the lower grades,

543
00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 5: and so I started to hear whispers like people are

544
00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 5: turning up to watch you and your brother play in

545
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 5: the lower grades, and I'm waiting from a crack of

546
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,919
Speaker 5: first grade. Anyway, I asked my wife to get to

547
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 5: go out on a date. Well married, blah blah blah,

548
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:14,359
Speaker 5: and she'd never been a regular league game before, and

549
00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 5: she's sitting in the grand stand we play on the

550
00:24:16,119 --> 00:24:19,120
Speaker 5: lower grades. Game finishes, and I'm sitting on the bench

551
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,159
Speaker 5: for first grade, not really going to get a go,

552
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,080
Speaker 5: and then all of a sudden, the side's getting beat

553
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:29,760
Speaker 5: and the first grade coach goes, Maddie, warm up, and

554
00:24:29,760 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 5: I've gone right, and I've gone bang, throw the dressing

555
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 5: gown off, and I'm starting to warm up on the

556
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,119
Speaker 5: sideline and the announcer over, who was a local Newcastle

557
00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:42,320
Speaker 5: bloke and had an eye for the local blokes, and

558
00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 5: he goes, ladies and gentlemen, coming on number nineteen Matthew,

559
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:49,359
Speaker 5: and the crowd went fucking berserk, and I remember thinking myself,

560
00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 5: holy shit. Anyway, what happened to Blake I was going

561
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 5: to replace actually was okay after all, and I had

562
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:56,240
Speaker 5: to go back into the grand stand. But I remember

563
00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 5: after the game, my wife just goes, were they cheering

564
00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:04,440
Speaker 5: for you? And I said yeah, She goes, that was strange,

565
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:06,639
Speaker 5: and I said that was really strange now, but I

566
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:07,040
Speaker 5: loved it.

567
00:25:07,320 --> 00:25:09,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was your Yeah, And then.

568
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 5: You know, we started working through and it was funny

569
00:25:14,480 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 5: the Newcastle Knights when Andrew and I first come into

570
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 5: that club, they had no money whatsoever, and so what

571
00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:24,200
Speaker 5: they did when they would sign players for that club,

572
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,520
Speaker 5: they went, we're going after the two te's players with

573
00:25:27,560 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 5: it plenty of tomorrows and players who are tough the

574
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 5: two te's and going into that club. Made it was

575
00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:37,600
Speaker 5: that they expected so much from you, little things like

576
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,879
Speaker 5: the coach alument Martin, you good life lessons in a

577
00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 5: lot of way, a lot of ways. He said, if

578
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 5: there's a loose ball on the ground and you go

579
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 5: to kick it, you're gone from the club. He said.

580
00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,120
Speaker 5: You I don't care if the people are kicking, are

581
00:25:51,119 --> 00:25:53,400
Speaker 5: trying to kick the ball or whatever. You fucking dive

582
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 5: on the thing, right and get it. There was all these.

583
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 1: Standards they had you dive on the grenade. Yeah, you know,

584
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:02,240
Speaker 1: no matter whether you're going to get blasted, whether you're

585
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 1: going to get you that's your.

586
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,679
Speaker 5: If they get kicked in the head, that's what you do.

587
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,360
Speaker 5: But if you do, if you don't, you don't make

588
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 5: that sacrifice, you don't play for this club. And it's okay, But.

589
00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:14,159
Speaker 2: All things like that money.

590
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: The reason why you why I say that is because

591
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:19,639
Speaker 1: it's very similar going up from the conventional forces, you know,

592
00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 1: the elite convector to the special forces.

593
00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 2: It's the attention to detail.

594
00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:29,480
Speaker 1: It's the small things that separate the levels of being

595
00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,120
Speaker 1: extremely good at your job to being in the elite category.

596
00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,639
Speaker 5: Isn't it so true? I'd say that my boys all

597
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:36,679
Speaker 5: the time, when not just some coaching with young players

598
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 5: and so, mate, it's not the bricks, it's the mortar.

599
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 5: It's the subtleties to separate people and that. And the

600
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 5: club in those days and played a very very primitive

601
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 5: game plan. Their whole game plan was retaining the ball,

602
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,440
Speaker 5: don't make errors, that's the opposition, hope for the best,

603
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:54,560
Speaker 5: and so the club would have a good year every

604
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 5: now and then, but you know, generally it was. It

605
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 5: was a struggling club, that's what. And I remember myself

606
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 5: and Andrew would sit at home and put the game on

607
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,159
Speaker 5: and watch all these glamour scenes like the Broncos and

608
00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 5: Manly and the canber Raiders, and we go, we're going

609
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 5: to fucking boot those guys one day when we get

610
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:14,920
Speaker 5: into first grade. Everything's going to change in this club.

611
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 5: And probably have more to do with Andrew, but it did.

612
00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,639
Speaker 1: In twenty eleven, Australian hip hop star three sixty storm

613
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,760
Speaker 1: the charts with the song boys Like You and the

614
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:36,760
Speaker 1: album Falling and Flying. But secretly, the man behind three sixty,

615
00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 1: Matt Colwell, was spiraling. Addiction and depression took hold of

616
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: his life just as he was hitting his stride as

617
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: an artist. It all came to a head when Matt

618
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:51,480
Speaker 1: collapsed just a few shows into a major national tour.

619
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 6: By their second tour for that third album, it was

620
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 6: a regional tour. But my addiction had gone out of control,

621
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 6: like it was to the point I was going weekly

622
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,919
Speaker 6: to the doctor and getting oxy cotton, which I was

623
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 6: getting on eighty milligram tablets, which is for people dying

624
00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 6: of cancer. But my tolerance was that high that I

625
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 6: needed whatever I could get, really and I would just

626
00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 6: go in there and say I had a saw back

627
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,920
Speaker 6: and just get refills every week kind of thing. And

628
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 6: I had this tour coming up in about a week,

629
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:25,679
Speaker 6: so I went in there. I got stocked up with

630
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 6: all the prescription stuff. I thought, oh, you know, i'll

631
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 6: hold this until the tour to help me get through it.

632
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 6: But typical addict fashion, I went through it in probably

633
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 6: two or three days, and then I had a few

634
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 6: days before the tour and I had nothing. And by

635
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 6: that point it was that bad that if I didn't

636
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,000
Speaker 6: have the oxy cotton, I would either have to get

637
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 6: heroin or I would go to a pharmacy and get

638
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 6: neurop and plus, which is it's got Coatine and Yberprofen

639
00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,480
Speaker 6: in it, and I was having three boxes of those

640
00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:58,360
Speaker 6: at a time, which is ninety tablets, just to because

641
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 6: my tolerance was that high and it would stop me

642
00:29:01,280 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 6: going through withdrawals. So we were three or four shows

643
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:07,640
Speaker 6: in and I was just doing that every day, trying

644
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 6: to get through it. The tour was going really well,

645
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,960
Speaker 6: and then on the fourth show, I was like, I

646
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,400
Speaker 6: just want to feel something, so I had one hundred

647
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 6: and twenty instead of ninety tablets, and I started convulsing

648
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,160
Speaker 6: on the floor. I woke up in hospital. I was

649
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:25,640
Speaker 6: on suicide Watch.

650
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: So you're free shows in, you're killing it, and then

651
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:31,680
Speaker 1: you take instead of your night fucking ninety. I surprise,

652
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,800
Speaker 1: ninety didn't really spies thirty didn't put you on your Yeah,

653
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 1: so one hundred and twenty. And then obviously you've owed deed.

654
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: And when you wake up, what's going on? So one

655
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,160
Speaker 1: minute you're going to you're going to walk on stage.

656
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 1: The next minute, well, you wake up in hospital.

657
00:29:47,920 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 6: YEP, in hospital with someone sitting there told me that

658
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,520
Speaker 6: I try to kill myself, and I was like, dude,

659
00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 6: I would never ever do that.

660
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 7: They wouldn't believe me.

661
00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 6: Then they bring out my suitcase and they're like, look,

662
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,640
Speaker 6: and it was like half was full of my clothes,

663
00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 6: but the other half was just boxes of neuroprom plus

664
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,960
Speaker 6: and they're like, you're clearly trying to kill yourself. And

665
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 6: I was like this is every day, man, Like this

666
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,280
Speaker 6: is just me trying to sustain.

667
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:13,880
Speaker 7: My addiction, you know.

668
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,400
Speaker 6: And then and then someone just come up to me

669
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 6: and they're like, here's the phone and it was my mum.

670
00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 7: And I had to break it to her.

671
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:24,640
Speaker 6: And they knew that I was a bit of a

672
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 6: party animal, but they didn't know what was going on

673
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 6: with this stuff. So I just had to break it

674
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 6: to her and be like, look, I'm addicted to prescription stuff.

675
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 6: I've just had an overdose. We're going to have to

676
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 6: cancel the whole tour. I'm going to have to come

677
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 6: back and get into a rehab center.

678
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 5: And yeah, I.

679
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 6: Did that, and man, the effect that that had on

680
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 6: them was pretty brutal, you know, Like for my dad

681
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:51,560
Speaker 6: to sacrifice so much and dedicate so much into raising

682
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,600
Speaker 6: us to be these men with integrity and to only

683
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 6: do the very thing that he tried to steer us

684
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:03,280
Speaker 6: away from was very very confronting for them. I think

685
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 6: it broke them. It also makes it hurts me to

686
00:31:06,360 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 6: think about what I've put them through. But at the

687
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:12,600
Speaker 6: same time, I didn't have the heart to tell anyone

688
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 6: I was I was hiding it. So this forced my hand.

689
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 6: It forced me to come out about my addiction, which

690
00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 6: was a blessing. It was that was the silver lining

691
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 6: of it, even though there's not much of a silver

692
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 6: lining in there.

693
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 7: That was that was a gift.

694
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,840
Speaker 1: There's that out that a glimpse of positivity, which was

695
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 1: that that gift where you were like, I've got a problem.

696
00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,800
Speaker 2: I need to know, I need to sort myself out.

697
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: Because if you didn't have had that, then the next

698
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,360
Speaker 1: time you probably wouldn't be here, you'd probably be dead.

699
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: In a way, your your willingness to need to need

700
00:31:43,920 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: to turn up, to need to show up, to need

701
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: to to you know, be present, ultimately ultimately took such

702
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: a big hit on you that it nearly took your life.

703
00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: Do you remember or ever with ever a feeling that

704
00:31:57,680 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 1: you that you felt like that you needed to perform,

705
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: that you needed to you know people were coming to

706
00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 1: see you, and that you that you needed to turn

707
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: up no matter how much you were suffering. Was there

708
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 1: an element of that you think.

709
00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 6: One hundred and it was like, but it was very

710
00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 6: much tied to the fact that if I.

711
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 7: Don't do it, then I'm going to lose their approval.

712
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

713
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:18,479
Speaker 6: So that was the thing that was fueling the whole,

714
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 6: the whole charge to try and keep chasing my career

715
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,320
Speaker 6: was like, if I don't have this, I lose myself,

716
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 6: you know, because this defines me.

717
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 5: Yeah. Wow.

718
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: So now that you wake up in hospital and you've

719
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: spoken to your mum, does that flip into putting everything

720
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:43,320
Speaker 1: into getting clean that or was it I know that

721
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: probably sounds easier than it is, but you know, was

722
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:49,479
Speaker 1: there did you push everything aside and think I've got

723
00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: to or was there still an element of that I've

724
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 1: got to get out and perform.

725
00:32:54,040 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 3: Nah.

726
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: I went to detox for a month, fully fully committed.

727
00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,160
Speaker 7: No no, no.

728
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 6: I I was all I was committed to was getting

729
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 6: back out and touring and I wasn't even ready to stop.

730
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 6: But they put me on this medication. It was a replacement,

731
00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 6: so I couldn't get high. I could just live my life,

732
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 6: but I had to take this thing every single morning,

733
00:33:16,960 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 6: and that I wasn't ready to stop. So I still

734
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:24,720
Speaker 6: had these habits. Anytime I was feeling off or anxious,

735
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,880
Speaker 6: I was reaching for tablets and stuff and do you

736
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:31,800
Speaker 6: get them? Yes, yeah, I was easily.

737
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

738
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 7: Yeah.

739
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:37,600
Speaker 6: So that was like a that was probably from about

740
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 6: twenty fourteen to twenty twenty.

741
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:47,400
Speaker 1: See, like on a treadmill, you know you're taking one

742
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: step forward, but you know the treadmills taking you back.

743
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:51,719
Speaker 7: Yes, yeah, yeah yeah.

744
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,720
Speaker 6: At about twenty nineteen, I was so overweight. I was

745
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 6: thirty five kilos heavier. I was unhappy and just just no,

746
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 6: good man, I'm.

747
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 2: Going to say that you look at incredible shape right now.

748
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 7: Thank you man, thank you.

749
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 6: That's that's been a crucial part of it. But it

750
00:34:09,080 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 6: was like I remember going to my doctor and he

751
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 6: was like, dude, you are an overweight drug addict.

752
00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,439
Speaker 7: You look disgusting. You need to sort your life out.

753
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 2: Oh is that brutal?

754
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 5: Was he?

755
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 6: And I remember being so off ended, man, Like I

756
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 6: was so so sensitive. Yeah, I was like, oh, I'm triggered.

757
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 6: I want to make a complaint, you know, and all

758
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,120
Speaker 6: this stuff. But then I thought it dwelts on it

759
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:33,120
Speaker 6: and thought about it, like, well, he's actually right, you know,

760
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,760
Speaker 6: no one's telling me this a lot of people around

761
00:34:35,840 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 6: me were probably just enabling me, probably didn't want to

762
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,280
Speaker 6: hurt my feelings, like trying to navigate how to support

763
00:34:42,320 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 6: me without saying the brutal, honest truth. So I remember

764
00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 6: thinking back to that and thinking like that was a

765
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:49,959
Speaker 6: bit of a moment for me that kind of turned

766
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:50,239
Speaker 6: me in.

767
00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 7: The right direction.

768
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 6: So I think saying the brutal, honest truth sometimes is

769
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:59,640
Speaker 6: what needs to be done. So I remember was just like,

770
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:01,160
Speaker 6: I think I got to go to rehab. I've got

771
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,240
Speaker 6: to try and get off all this stuff, but actually

772
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 6: give it a shot. So I went into rehab for

773
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,280
Speaker 6: like four and a half months in twenty twenty during

774
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 6: the COVID lockdowns. I went in before it started and

775
00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:13,800
Speaker 6: then got out while it was popping off. So it

776
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:19,360
Speaker 6: was bizarre. I thought that I was going to be sweet.

777
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 6: I thought that I was going to be have a

778
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 6: switch of my mindset. But I wasn't. I was still

779
00:35:25,160 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 6: in the rehab. I was still getting high in the rehab,

780
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 6: which is really frowned upon while you're there. I got out,

781
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 6: and once I had been reduced off all the medications,

782
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 6: I was in such a bad state of mind that

783
00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 6: the only option for me was to well. I thought

784
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 6: the only option was to go down to the pub

785
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,400
Speaker 6: and have a drink to try and numb these feelings.

786
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 6: But I was like, if I do that, Mum and

787
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 6: Dad are going to know and I can't put them

788
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 6: through that again. And then so my option then this

789
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 6: is crazy, Like this is just so bad. But I

790
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,960
Speaker 6: went and got listerine mouth washed and just started chugging

791
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 6: on that because it has alcohol in it, and I

792
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:07,759
Speaker 6: would take two mouthfuls of it and it would give

793
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 6: me this numb feeling. It would numb those feelings and

794
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 6: then I would feel okay. I was able to navigate

795
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:15,720
Speaker 6: through my day like that. And then I started googling

796
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:18,840
Speaker 6: the effects of what drinking that would actually do, and

797
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 6: if you drink the alcohol in listenine, you can go blind.

798
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 6: So I was like, I'm already half blind. I can't

799
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 6: do that. So I went to the doctor and told him,

800
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,560
Speaker 6: which is progress, I guess, because I was actually honest

801
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 6: when I'm not usually honest about it. He put me

802
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,520
Speaker 6: on some different medications and that I was on like

803
00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:42,600
Speaker 6: probably like six different medications. Yeah, brutal. And from then

804
00:36:42,680 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 6: on I was like, Okay, I need to sort my

805
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:45,439
Speaker 6: life out.

806
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 7: And just get my act together.

807
00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:51,040
Speaker 6: But I was so unhappy and depressed that I had

808
00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 6: no motivation. I was like, how do I get myself back?

809
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,760
Speaker 6: Because I remember there was one time I got after

810
00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 6: that detox. I got really fit and I got in

811
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 6: really good shape and I was going to the gym

812
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 6: and eating really well, and I was I felt the

813
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 6: best I'd ever felt.

814
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 7: But that didn't last very long.

815
00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 2: Relapse, Yeah, yeah, what's the trigger? What are you fighting?

816
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: You know when you're when you're in great shape and

817
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: you're feeling good, and you know, how easy is it

818
00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:20,680
Speaker 1: to relapse? Or where are the triggers for the reader?

819
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:22,520
Speaker 1: There a whole crash again, isn't it?

820
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 7: Yeah?

821
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,799
Speaker 6: So for me it was it wasn't an escape kind

822
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 6: of or a trigger kind of thing. It was like

823
00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,280
Speaker 6: I put in four or five months in the gym

824
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 6: and then I remember leaving it and going like, I'm

825
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,800
Speaker 6: doing so well, I might as well treat myself to

826
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 6: a to a bit of a high. And I was

827
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 6: doing that, and it would be I'd probably do it

828
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 6: every few weeks, but then out of nowhere, it just

829
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,799
Speaker 6: snowboared out of control again, you know what I mean.

830
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,840
Speaker 6: So it wasn't an escape thing. It was just a reward.

831
00:37:50,840 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: And will it will it always always snap you up? Yeah,

832
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 1: one one way or another.

833
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 6: It was like, I feel like I had such a

834
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 6: low self esteem and low opinion of myself. I didn't

835
00:38:04,239 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 6: trust myself to make my own decisions. I was able

836
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:12,800
Speaker 6: to lie to myself and manipulate myself into using drugs

837
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 6: through anything that I was going through. I would believe

838
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 6: the lies that I would tell myself that Okay, I

839
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 6: need drugs now, and I would just go and do it.

840
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 6: And now fast forward to after getting out of rehab

841
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,080
Speaker 6: and I was still slipping up. I was drinking the

842
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 6: listrene and stuff like that. I then went and started

843
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:36,480
Speaker 6: smoking weed because it was prescribed by the doctor. So

844
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,040
Speaker 6: that was like the justification in my head, even though

845
00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:41,359
Speaker 6: I knew deep down it wasn't right for me. And

846
00:38:41,400 --> 00:38:46,240
Speaker 6: then about two years ago I became I was probably

847
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:49,400
Speaker 6: about two years ago my friend became born again Christian

848
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 6: and I was very anti religion and very against it,

849
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,760
Speaker 6: but I saw the way it changed him and healed

850
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:00,839
Speaker 6: him in such a radical way so quick that I

851
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 6: was like, maybe there's something to this, and I started

852
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,640
Speaker 6: exploring it for myself. And then about a year ago,

853
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:09,239
Speaker 6: my wall came down to it and I believed in

854
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,319
Speaker 6: the Gospel. I started believing in the whole story of

855
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,959
Speaker 6: the Bible. And then the moment I gave my life

856
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:19,319
Speaker 6: to God was the moment that I was able to

857
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,520
Speaker 6: completely stop manipulating myself because it was like suddenly I

858
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,920
Speaker 6: had someone, I had the highest authority there.

859
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:30,239
Speaker 2: Is in me accountable to.

860
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 6: Yeah, not myself anymore. I'm no longer relying on my

861
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 6: own decision making skills, which have always been so poor.

862
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 6: I'm relying on Him. And it's almost like it was

863
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,920
Speaker 6: very instant. Like I was on all these medications. I

864
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 6: didn't want to get off of them because I was

865
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 6: just cruising, and then as soon as I gave my

866
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:50,879
Speaker 6: life to God, is like, bang, You've got to get

867
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 6: off all this stuff. And it's just streamlined the process.

868
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,680
Speaker 6: I've had moments where I would have used in the past,

869
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 6: like I get anxious or whatever, and I just haven't.

870
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 6: I've just gone into prayer because I know I can't

871
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 6: do that, and it's like having Him there is the

872
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 6: reason for that.

873
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 1: And were you writing you know, when you were going

874
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: just before you found God all through your rehab, were

875
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 1: you still writing.

876
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 7: Yeah, I was.

877
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:17,800
Speaker 2: It wasn't that great, No, but it was so yourself.

878
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:18,520
Speaker 5: Yeah, I was.

879
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 7: I was still writing yeah.

880
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 6: And then when I got out, I was, I wrote

881
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 6: I wrote this album probably about over the last three years.

882
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:33,480
Speaker 6: But yeah, that shift towards God shifted everything. And I

883
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 6: used to I used to mock God. I used to

884
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,399
Speaker 6: mock Christians in my songs. There's so many songs where

885
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 6: I just completely disrespect it. I thought that if anyone

886
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 6: became born again Christian or started proclaiming the name of

887
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,040
Speaker 6: Jesus Christ, that they were brainwashed or in a cult.

888
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 6: And then when I actually explored it, for I'd never

889
00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 6: looked into it. I was speaking from a place of ignorance.

890
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 6: And then when I actually looked into it and explored

891
00:40:59,520 --> 00:41:01,400
Speaker 6: it with an and mine had changed everything.

892
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: If you want to listen to any of these interviews

893
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: in full, I'll put the links in the show notes.

894
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 2: I'm at Middleton. Catch you in the next episode.