Speaker 1: And welcome to the two hundred and ninety ninth installment
Speaker 1: of this your Favorite podcast. He says that with some
Speaker 1: sense of confidence, not knowing at all that you project hullo, Melissa, Hello,
Speaker 1: Happy Wednesday, Happy Wednesday to you champion. Have you had
Speaker 1: a great day? I have had a great day so far.
Speaker 1: Thank you. I think our day sorry for that. I
Speaker 1: think our day's about to get a little bit better.
Speaker 1: What why has your day been good so far? What
Speaker 1: have you done? Because I know you're a box ticker,
Speaker 1: you're a list doer, you love your very type A.
Speaker 1: You push the button before you finished wing? Or is
Speaker 1: that just me? What's been the what's been the pinnacle
Speaker 1: so far? Well, actually it's got to do with this episode,
Speaker 1: because you sent me a video earlier of our guests
Speaker 1: and it was fascinating. I did, Yeah, I watched the
Speaker 1: whole thing because it was so interesting. I normally do
Speaker 1: I normally don't. I've never done that, in fact before,
Speaker 1: because you don't really need to do too much research
Speaker 1: on our guests, because you don't need to ask too
Speaker 1: many questions. But as I say, you can be as
Speaker 1: evolved or uninvolved as you want. But I watched so
Speaker 1: last night, I went, I'm going to have a look
Speaker 1: at this dude, and he's because Russ, one of our
Speaker 1: mutual friends, told me listen to the podcast and went,
Speaker 1: so I had to listen. That was great, and I went,
Speaker 1: I'm going to have a look at it. He did
Speaker 1: a ted talk and then look at that, I'm like,
Speaker 1: well that was good. And then I'm just had a
Speaker 1: look at a few others. And then this morning I
Speaker 1: woke up at six ish and which is about nine
Speaker 1: hours after Dnash gets up, and I watched I don't
Speaker 1: know who produced it, he'll tell me in a moment,
Speaker 1: but it was about a half hour VID, which well
Speaker 1: will pass on to you folks. It is really, really fascinating.
Speaker 1: And I knew that once because you're busy, like you've
Speaker 1: got no free time, and I sent this to you
Speaker 1: and I said, because it's thirty odd minutes, I said,
Speaker 1: just watch ten twelve minutes so you get a sense
Speaker 1: of who we're chatting with. And I knew that once
Speaker 1: you watched it, you wouldn't you wouldn't stop, and you
Speaker 1: watch the whole thing, didn't you. Yeah, you can't just
Speaker 1: watch ten twelve minutes of that, like imriguing You've got
Speaker 1: to watch the whole thing. I know. It's like, here,
Speaker 1: just have a bite of this cheesecake. Just you don't
Speaker 1: have to have the whole piece. I'm like, God, give
Speaker 1: me the whole piece.
Speaker 2: Which video this was?
Speaker 1: What's the hat?
Speaker 2: Now I'm concerned about which video this was?
Speaker 1: It was one of you at that swinger's party with
Speaker 1: the cocaine and the plastic sheets. That one.
Speaker 2: See. I knew you didn't come back to bite me.
Speaker 1: I knew, well, there it is. There it is, dude,
Speaker 1: that's what happens. Hey, you're not on yet. Just wait now.
Speaker 1: Our guest name is Denise Palapana Palipanna. He is this
Speaker 1: is There's way too much stuff and I'm terrible in
Speaker 1: intros when I read things, so I'm not going to
Speaker 1: read too much. But born in Sri Lanka nine eighty four.
Speaker 1: Here's a doctor, he's a lawyer. Here's a disability the advocate.
Speaker 1: He's the first quadriplegic medical intern. He was in Queensland,
Speaker 1: second one in Australia, second person with quadriplegia to graduate
Speaker 1: as a doctor in Australia, and the first wispinal cord injury.
Speaker 1: There's just way too much stuff. He's been on the
Speaker 1: ABC Radio, ABC TV, BBC, The Today Show, Vice Magazine.
Speaker 1: He's got a Medal of the Order of Australia for
Speaker 1: Service to Medicine Junior Doctor of the Year at Gold
Speaker 1: Coast University. His actual do you know why? I know? Now?
Speaker 1: Denesse Versusly, Hello, my friend, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm great, I'm having a beautiful morning in the gold
Speaker 2: Course once afternoon.
Speaker 1: Now of course you are, now, I want to I
Speaker 1: bet you've never been asked this question before. This is
Speaker 1: a question you've never been asked in an interview. Did
Speaker 1: you write or contribute to your own Wikipedia page.
Speaker 2: I've had a look at it. I've had to look
Speaker 2: at it.
Speaker 1: I tell you why, because whoever wrote it is clearly
Speaker 1: an academic Melissa, do you know why why? Because there's
Speaker 1: one hundred and eight citations? I'm like, who wrote this?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 2: I was at a job interview last year and that
Speaker 2: actually came up and they're like, there are one hundred
Speaker 2: references to this or something like that. I'm like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I didn't. I didn't. I didn't really check. But it's
Speaker 2: good that it's so well referenced.
Speaker 1: It is very well referenced and it is very thorough.
Speaker 1: So mate, where so you're based on the Gold Coast, yes,
Speaker 1: and you work at Gold Coast Hospital, Yeah, and you also,
Speaker 1: So we'll jump around a little bit and you feel
Speaker 1: free to go where it And also whatever ideas and
Speaker 1: thoughts and messages you want to share with our audience,
Speaker 1: we would love you to do that. We don't need
Speaker 1: to go in any particular direction. But so the quick snapshot,
Speaker 1: everybody correct me if I'm wrong, is you were twenty
Speaker 1: five ISHU. You were midway through your medical degree. You
Speaker 1: were driving home to see your folks who lived too
Speaker 1: and two ish hours away, which was a regular thing
Speaker 1: for you. You hit a big patch of water in
Speaker 1: the road, Your car went out of control and flipped
Speaker 1: end to end, and you ended up a quadriplegic. You
Speaker 1: ended up you're in hospital for seven months or so
Speaker 1: and spent another four years recovering and doing bits and
Speaker 1: pieces fill in the gaps for me and you all
Speaker 1: that while we're thinking about can I ever be a doctor?
Speaker 1: I'm halfway through my medical degree? Can I do it?
Speaker 1: Is it possible? And you ended up obviously going back
Speaker 1: qualifying as a doctor. A lot of speed bumps along
Speaker 1: the way, a lot of hurdles and barriers, probably ones
Speaker 1: that we wouldn't think. But you did law before you
Speaker 1: did what you did the law, and then what happened
Speaker 1: with that? Did you go? Hang? What was that about?
Speaker 1: It was?
Speaker 2: You know that there was a that was a really
Speaker 2: interesting process for me. And yesterday someone asked me, did
Speaker 2: you ever get depressed after the accident? And I don't
Speaker 2: think I actually, you know, I don't think I felt
Speaker 2: low like I was distressed and it was an adjustment period,
Speaker 2: but I don't think I was extremely depressed after the accident.
Speaker 2: But I was before and that was before medical school.
Speaker 2: So when I was in law school and studying law,
Speaker 2: I think, you know, I think depression and whatever what,
Speaker 2: whatever our thought process are, there's there's an organic component
Speaker 2: to it, and there's a neuropsychological component to it, and
Speaker 2: there's a very scientific components to it, for sure. But
Speaker 2: I also think that certain life events and new path
Speaker 2: in life can lead you into that as well. I
Speaker 2: think the reasons for me choosing, or the reasons for
Speaker 2: me studying or then we're not, we're not. Something that
Speaker 2: was close to my heart. I just finished school. I
Speaker 2: was trying to figure out what to do, and I thought, hey,
Speaker 2: you know, I'll get paid well, I have a well
Speaker 2: respected job, and this would be a nice thing to
Speaker 2: be doing, which really aren't which probably aren't that good
Speaker 2: reasons to be doing something in all honesty. But over
Speaker 2: a period of time, I just became really really depressed,
Speaker 2: like I was in the pits. I was anxious all
Speaker 2: the time, I had handic attacks, I got at a guaaphobia.
Speaker 2: After a period of time, I locked myself when house
Speaker 2: for weeks, and it was that experience they got me
Speaker 2: thinking about, you know, maybe I need to just rethink life.
Speaker 2: And you know, it was really hard going through that period.
Speaker 2: It was probably actually one of the hardest things I've
Speaker 2: gone through. The spine card injury has been difficult, but
Speaker 2: that was an experience where you become stuck inside your head,
Speaker 2: and I think when you're a prisoner of your thoughts,
Speaker 2: it's a much more difficult thing than being you know,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't even say limited, but having a different body
Speaker 2: now that I do. You know, I use a wheelchair
Speaker 2: and don't use my fingers anymore. But I feel that
Speaker 2: I'll be much more productive after this significant physical injury
Speaker 2: than I was with that. It was a really good
Speaker 2: turning point in my life because I started thinking about
Speaker 2: what I want to do. And I interacted with so
Speaker 2: many people then, because you know, you're struggling, and I
Speaker 2: was talking to friends, and I was talking to doctors,
Speaker 2: and I was talking to all these people, and I
Speaker 2: realized that, you know, people make a big difference in
Speaker 2: your life, and people are really important, and I wanted
Speaker 2: to I started thinking about doing something with people because
Speaker 2: I thought, wow, you know, just having a good conversation
Speaker 2: and having some help really change my world. And that's
Speaker 2: why I wanted to be a doctor. And as soon
Speaker 2: as I made that decision, my life actually just changed
Speaker 2: very rapidly, and I came out of that depression and
Speaker 2: I was a new person.
Speaker 1: It's amazing how when we find our thing, oh our
Speaker 1: you know, all these cliches get chucked around, but our
Speaker 1: purpose or our path or our reason or whatever you
Speaker 1: call it, but if it's a it's amazing how things
Speaker 1: change on a multitude of level psychological, emotional, practical, physiological,
Speaker 1: even I kind of talk about this construct with when
Speaker 1: I'm doing some of my speaking and coaching called I
Speaker 1: call it the duality of the human experience. The duality
Speaker 1: of the human experience, which is the fact that we
Speaker 1: kind of live in these two worlds, the external and
Speaker 1: the internal. Obviously, the practical physical, three dimensional world where
Speaker 1: things happen, people have accidents, you know, pandemics come, whether happens,
Speaker 1: government happens, bills to pay, jobs, to go to roles,
Speaker 1: to play, situation, circumstance environment. That's the external world that
Speaker 1: we inhabit. But the world that we live in is
Speaker 1: more that inner place of thought and feeling, emotion, idea
Speaker 1: and passion and love and hate and terror and joy
Speaker 1: and pain and excite and purpose and goals and beliefs
Speaker 1: and faith. And you know, isn't it interesting how like
Speaker 1: your life from the outside. From the outside looking in,
Speaker 1: people would automatically assume many people, well, his life just
Speaker 1: got a whole lot worse, right, which would not be
Speaker 1: an unreasonable assumption based on the fact that, wow, you
Speaker 1: went from where you were to now you're in a wheelchair,
Speaker 1: to all these things. But almost illogically, it's like your life.
Speaker 1: And I'm sure there are things about your life that
Speaker 1: of course are challenges, of course, but in terms of
Speaker 1: your life as an experience, your lived experience of life
Speaker 1: now is better, Like it's just so interesting. But we
Speaker 1: are such an externally focused world where everything that when
Speaker 1: we talk about success, generally we're talking about stuff, you know,
Speaker 1: we're talking about you know, when we talk about success,
Speaker 1: we're normally talking about, you know, what we have, what
Speaker 1: we earn, what we own, what we drive, where we live,
Speaker 1: what we look like, what people think of us, our qualifications,
Speaker 1: our position, our title. And none of those things are bad.
Speaker 1: But definitely when you go, wow, that that girl or
Speaker 1: that guy they're super successful, you're not talking about the
Speaker 1: fact that they've got no anxiety, or the fact that
Speaker 1: they're calm, or the fact that they've you know, they've
Speaker 1: got a joyful existence despite the fact that they live
Speaker 1: in a one bedroom flat, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Absolutely, I think. And it's like a drug too,
Speaker 2: you know, when you get caught up in that thing.
Speaker 2: You want the next best thing, or you want the
Speaker 2: next best car, or you want the more money or
Speaker 2: the bigger house or whatever. And I think I was
Speaker 2: a big part of that where I was really attached
Speaker 2: to these things. I was. Actually it's an interesting thing
Speaker 2: to reflect on because just before I had my accident,
Speaker 2: I had all these things that I liked, Like I
Speaker 2: had this nice apartment overlooking the ocean and the city,
Speaker 2: and I had this car and whatever else, and you
Speaker 2: know those things, Like I was very attached to those things,
Speaker 2: was attached to my belongings. But when the accident happened,
Speaker 2: I lost every single thing, like because money became a
Speaker 2: challenge and I just had to give it all up
Speaker 2: because I was in the hospital for seven or eight months,
Speaker 2: had to move around, and I think I was really
Speaker 2: stripped down from all that as well, Like I lost
Speaker 2: all the belongings and I lost all those things, and
Speaker 2: I just had to start again from the basics. And
Speaker 2: that was a really good thing because again I got
Speaker 2: the opportunity to just strip down to the core and
Speaker 2: figure out what's important. So I totally agree that having
Speaker 2: that internal world that that that is that is important
Speaker 2: because you know, I use a wheelchair now, I don't
Speaker 2: use my fingers. I have all sorts of differences in
Speaker 2: my life from what it was before. You know, I
Speaker 2: love life, Like I wake up every day, I'm grateful
Speaker 2: for a bunch of stuff. I look out the window
Speaker 2: and I see the sun and the ocean and gold
Speaker 2: courst and that that it's it. That's an awesome thing.
Speaker 2: I get to see here and talk to you today.
Speaker 2: That's pretty damn cool. And that wouldn't happen if my
Speaker 2: life was different. So I think, I think you've got
Speaker 2: to look at look at what you have in a
Speaker 2: different lens, and that really helps to shape shape the
Speaker 2: world that you've seen. There's a book called The Diamond Cutter,
Speaker 2: which I don't if you've ever come across.
Speaker 1: But I'm going to write it down right now.
Speaker 2: Essentially, it was I read it a long time ago,
Speaker 2: but it was written by a guy who was a
Speaker 2: monk somewhere in Nepal or India, and he wanted to
Speaker 2: learn a bit more about the world and understand it
Speaker 2: a bit better. So he went to New York and
Speaker 2: became a diamond trader, and he looks at business and
Speaker 2: that world in a bit of a spiritual and philosophical light. Well,
Speaker 2: one of the things that he says is that when
Speaker 2: you get a diamond out of the ground, it's actually
Speaker 2: a fairly ugly things. It's not shiny, he doesn't have
Speaker 2: a shape. But we have the ability to cut that
Speaker 2: diamond into whatever we want, and if we cut it right,
Speaker 2: you see it shine and you see all these different
Speaker 2: colors come through it, and that's like life. You have
Speaker 2: the ability to turn this rock into whatever you want.
Speaker 1: Such a beautiful metaphor. Do you think that, you know,
Speaker 1: one of the things that everybody is saying, especially in
Speaker 1: Melbourne right now, you know, is more Jews. I'd love
Speaker 1: just to be able to go on bloody shit and
Speaker 1: have a cup of coffee with someone. And me too,
Speaker 1: I've said it too. You know, there's all that normal stuff,
Speaker 1: right and so when you know it, this is no
Speaker 1: revelation when I say that we don't appreciate some things
Speaker 1: often until we don't have those things, and then the
Speaker 1: thing that we didn't really value is the thing that
Speaker 1: that's all we want right now? Do you think that,
Speaker 1: like when I watched your story, and I'm not just
Speaker 1: saying this insincerely because you're here it firstly, thank you
Speaker 1: for thank you really from the bottom of my heart
Speaker 1: for what you do, because just watching you and watching you,
Speaker 1: you know, so to give there's some context everyone. If
Speaker 1: Denessh's got to be at work at seven point thirty,
Speaker 1: he's getting up at three thirty or four for all
Speaker 1: the stuff he's got to go through to be at work,
Speaker 1: so he's not rolling out of bed at six thirty
Speaker 1: and you know, having a dart in the car on
Speaker 1: the way to work, in a coffee and shaving it
Speaker 1: at the lights, and you know, putting on yesterday's jocks.
Speaker 1: He's getting up. Okay, that's my life, all right. He's
Speaker 1: getting up four hours and taking hours to do what
Speaker 1: would take us to do minutes. But and I was
Speaker 1: watching you, and I'm thinking what I really thought, because
Speaker 1: I always tell myself how busy I am, right, and
Speaker 1: I don't think I'm a marter. I think I cope
Speaker 1: with it well. But I have this in a dialogue,
Speaker 1: and I am busy, but because I'm doing full time
Speaker 1: work and full time study. But my busy compared to
Speaker 1: your busy is nothing, and my adversity compared to it.
Speaker 1: And I know that you don't look for sympathy or accolades.
Speaker 1: I get that. So I know you're going to deflect,
Speaker 1: but don't fucking deflect, right, as you've been told. Right,
Speaker 1: I was looking at you when I was going I
Speaker 1: need to work harder, because I'm kidding myself. I was
Speaker 1: watching what you do, and it just I found it
Speaker 1: truly inspiring. My question to you, is, how can people
Speaker 1: find that like a significant shift in perspective and thinking
Speaker 1: without going through a catastrophe. Do you think that's possible?
Speaker 1: Do you think it's because when your life changes, the
Speaker 1: way that your life changed once it or not, your
Speaker 1: perspective is different. It's like it's involuntary. You now have
Speaker 1: to have a different mindset and thought process of just
Speaker 1: for navigating life and the world. And you know, we
Speaker 1: hear of so many people who have been through something
Speaker 1: like you, who not only do you perform, but you
Speaker 1: like like new Denesh is out performing Olddnesh. I know
Speaker 1: that's not the right to did you know what I mean? Yeah? Like,
Speaker 1: is can we get that perspective without the drama and
Speaker 1: the trauma and the tragedy.
Speaker 2: I think you have to look for it, right because
Speaker 2: I heard another good metaphor a while ago is that
Speaker 2: you can't tell a fish that it's wet.
Speaker 1: So oh fuck, I love that is that is just
Speaker 1: so simple and so funny.
Speaker 2: So unless the fish is able to see like what
Speaker 2: it's is not to be wet, you can't really explain
Speaker 2: it to him or her. So I think you have
Speaker 2: to really look for different experiences and be consciously looking
Speaker 2: for that others perspective to find it. And it takes
Speaker 2: a choice to do that. It takes a choice to think, Okay,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm struggling right now, I'm struggling with these thoughts,
Speaker 2: or I'm challenged by these thoughts. Maybe I need to
Speaker 2: look outside, or maybe there's a better way to deal
Speaker 2: with it, or maybe there's a different way to think
Speaker 2: about it. But you have to go looking for that,
Speaker 2: and I think it's a process. I'm also lucky in
Speaker 2: that I grew up in Sri Lanka until I was
Speaker 2: ten years old, and Sri Lanka went through a war
Speaker 2: which just finished in the late two thousands, and it
Speaker 2: was a really difficult thing for people. So when I
Speaker 2: was growing up there, I actually had this memory which
Speaker 2: I talked to my mom about just recently, and because
Speaker 2: I didn't really think about it, was in the back
Speaker 2: of my mind. It popped up every now and again.
Speaker 2: But it was this when we were driving around Sri
Speaker 2: Lanka one day to me mom and dad, and there
Speaker 2: was a bunch of there are all these columns of
Speaker 2: smoke in the horizon, just black corns of smoke, and
Speaker 2: then when we drove up to it, we saw people
Speaker 2: being burnt alive in piles of tires, and there were
Speaker 2: suicide bombings, there were people dying, like my uncles died
Speaker 2: in the war, and people are living in fear. I remember,
Speaker 2: you know, we had times where people were hiding out
Speaker 2: in our house during their life, and parents really catch
Speaker 2: different buses to work because if one of them gets
Speaker 2: blown up, the other one would make it home for
Speaker 2: the kids. So people through a really hard time. And
Speaker 2: when after the accident, I also went back and I saw,
Speaker 2: you know it, we're so lucky in Australia, like this
Speaker 2: is truly the country, I think, because I went back
Speaker 2: there and I saw what happens to a lot of
Speaker 2: people with spinal cord injury. There. There's no social support systems,
Speaker 2: there's no in theis, there's nothing like that, and a
Speaker 2: lot of people just go home and die. They don't
Speaker 2: have the opportunity to work, they don't have wheelchairs whatever else.
Speaker 2: So just seeing that different perspectives, many thinks, you know,
Speaker 2: I am so damn lucky to have this opportunity to
Speaker 2: live the way I do, to be to seek education,
Speaker 2: to seek employment, to be able to hopefully spread a
Speaker 2: good message so that that's really mean a driving force
Speaker 2: for me as well, just to think about how lucky
Speaker 2: I am to be greatful for the things that I have.
Speaker 2: So that perspective has been really important.
Speaker 1: Could you maybe give us, for the people who are
Speaker 1: meeting you for the first time, which is the majority
Speaker 1: of my audience right now, how could you maybe give
Speaker 1: us a snapshot of and I know it varies, but
Speaker 1: a kind of a typical snapshot of a day in
Speaker 1: the life of you, where you work, what you do,
Speaker 1: some of the challenges around getting ready for that, and
Speaker 1: some of the practical stuff around, you know, just getting dressed,
Speaker 1: getting out of bed, eating, getting to work, to and from.
Speaker 1: Can you give us a snapshot of you know, I
Speaker 1: know your days vary, and I know you're a doctor
Speaker 1: and a lawyer now over retriever that you are, but
Speaker 1: give us kind of a snapshot of a day.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I mean, I'll talk about some of the
Speaker 2: things that happen actually before the day even starts. Sleep
Speaker 2: is a really big issue for people with spinal cord injury.
Speaker 2: And I haven't slept a full night since I've had
Speaker 2: the injury, and the reasons for that is you get
Speaker 2: spasms and also reading problems I use. I've been trying
Speaker 2: to fix that and we've been trialing a seatpap machine
Speaker 2: at night. But we did a sleep study a little
Speaker 2: while ago, and I found that, you know, my oxygen
Speaker 2: saturations dropping huge, and I was waking up about four
Speaker 2: times per hour. So this sleep was really poor, and
Speaker 2: so sleep is a challenge. But I wake up and
Speaker 2: then my mom, who's been around all my life, she's
Speaker 2: been a big positive force. She helps me have some breakfast.
Speaker 2: The first thing I do when I open my eyes
Speaker 2: is to think about a couple of things that I'm
Speaker 2: grateful for, three to five things, and it could be like,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm grateful for the job that I have,
Speaker 2: and grateful for where I live, and grateful for being alive. Whatever.
Speaker 2: I think of five things that pop into my head
Speaker 2: and I put on something positive to listen to. I
Speaker 2: have breakfast, and while I do that, I get the
Speaker 2: day started. So I reply to the emails I reply to.
Speaker 2: I go through my calendar and set up whatever I
Speaker 2: have for the day or the week. So I try
Speaker 2: to be really efficient and I try to be reliable
Speaker 2: with what I do as well. Someone shoots me an
Speaker 2: email and trying to make sure that it's replied to
Speaker 2: within twenty four hours and that sort of thing. So
Speaker 2: just still things because I think those little things matter
Speaker 2: for life, because big things are built on a collection
Speaker 2: of small things done well. So we do that, and
Speaker 2: then I got a team of a great bunch of guys,
Speaker 2: so one of them will turn up in that hour
Speaker 2: and then we get the day started. So they will
Speaker 2: help me get into the shower on a wheelchair built
Speaker 2: for that, and that that whole morning process with the
Speaker 2: showering and the personal case is quite It can be
Speaker 2: quite painful. It can be you know, like pressure fluctuates,
Speaker 2: like it's actually a bit of a challenging process. And
Speaker 2: I have a shower, I got some music going on
Speaker 2: by this point, and I get out of the shower,
Speaker 2: so by then another hour, hour and a half might
Speaker 2: be gone. Yeah, And then we get back into the
Speaker 2: bed and we start getting dressed. Before we get dressed,
Speaker 2: we're going to go through the skin. Because another thing
Speaker 2: is fine and corny is that you get wounds. You
Speaker 2: can't feel the rest of your body. Sometimes there are
Speaker 2: pressure points that you get. If there's prolonged pressure, your
Speaker 2: skin just starts to break down. Then you get a wound.
Speaker 2: So I've got a very superficient woden at the moment
Speaker 2: that we need to get under control. So you do
Speaker 2: the skin check, you dress that, and then you start
Speaker 2: to get you know, put your clothing on, whatever else.
Speaker 2: I wear a brace around my belly because my lung function.
Speaker 2: I don't have any lung excellent muscles to support that
Speaker 2: lung function. So it helps me breathe, It helps me
Speaker 2: maintain good blood pressure, and it helps me sit upright.
Speaker 2: And it also helps helps me speak because when I
Speaker 2: first had the accident, I couldn't speak a full sentence
Speaker 2: like I am now wow. It took a while to
Speaker 2: get that going again. So that supports all that. So
Speaker 2: we put the brace on, we put the shorts on,
Speaker 2: and that that involves a lot of rolling back and
Speaker 2: forth and get up, put the shirt on, and you know,
Speaker 2: I'm a pretty vain guy. I like to look as
Speaker 2: good as I can, So do the hair, to do
Speaker 2: the moisturized daily, all that other junk, and then we
Speaker 2: get out the door. So I go to work and
Speaker 2: the shifts, you know, I get to work. So typically,
Speaker 2: you know, the eaty has been pretty good in that
Speaker 2: they put they've started putting me on evening and night
Speaker 2: shifts just so I don't have to get up at
Speaker 2: four am as much. Oh god, because my boss actually
Speaker 2: so one of those videos that I don't know you're
Speaker 2: getting up at four to get to work. We could
Speaker 2: just put you on more evening shifts if you like.
Speaker 2: And I'm like, well, yeah, I mean they'll be helpful
Speaker 2: so that they're being awesome. And so I generally start
Speaker 2: work at one pm or ten pm if I'm doing
Speaker 2: a night shift, and then I'll get home at about
Speaker 2: anywhere between. It varies. I'll get anywhere in between eleven
Speaker 2: thirty pm. Just sometimes, you know, the latest would be
Speaker 2: like one ish. If something's significantly dragging on, then the
Speaker 2: bed process will take an hour or two. Grab some dinner,
Speaker 2: get some sleep, start the press again.
Speaker 1: Man, man, now feel guilty for taking your time, dude,
Speaker 1: I know. Yeah, so yeah, I'm honest. Oh dude, we are.
Speaker 1: So you're in You work in the emergency department at
Speaker 1: Gold Coast Hospital. Is that correct? And how are people
Speaker 1: when the bloke in the wheelchair rocks up and goes
Speaker 1: But I'm the doctor, you.
Speaker 2: Know that's a.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The Gold Coast ed is actually well it was, at
Speaker 2: least in twenty eighteen and maybe twenty nineteen, the busiest
Speaker 2: eat in the country. It's it is a really interesting
Speaker 2: place to work. But so I've been a doctor now
Speaker 2: for nearly five years, or coming up to my fifth year,
Speaker 2: and in all those years and my years as a
Speaker 2: medical student, not one patient has looked at that as
Speaker 2: a weird thing. In fact, I don't even know if
Speaker 2: some notice it, because it's just such an all interaction.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And if it's anything out of the ordinary, I
Speaker 2: mean sure people might be thinking, oh, they might think, wow,
Speaker 2: it's goin a wheelchair. But the out of the ordinary
Speaker 2: interactions that I've had have been really positive. I remember
Speaker 2: seeing this patient who had a significant physical challenge themselves
Speaker 2: and when I after, after I saw them, they said,
Speaker 2: you know, I was so glad that you came to
Speaker 2: my bedside because I knew you'd understand what I was
Speaker 2: going through. And I've I've talked with parents whose kids
Speaker 2: have been significantly injured or going through things, and they
Speaker 2: just said that it gave them a lot of hope
Speaker 2: to then see someone coming out of that recurring. So,
Speaker 2: you know, I think the medical care is one aspect
Speaker 2: of it and I try to be the best doctor
Speaker 2: as I can, but I think it's what you it's
Speaker 2: the other stuff that you do with people. And there
Speaker 2: was a doctor, you know, I who sadly passed away,
Speaker 2: but I think he likes to quote it was Maya
Speaker 2: Angelou who said, people remember how you made them feel
Speaker 2: mm hmm, and that's what they're left.
Speaker 1: So it's so true, and it's really easy in some professions,
Speaker 1: and medicine is one where you know, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, at the end of the day, every patient,
Speaker 1: of course is a human with emotions and feelings and
Speaker 1: challenges and personality, and every doctor and every nurse and
Speaker 1: every person in that setting is also has brings all
Speaker 1: their own stuff to every moment in time.
Speaker 3: And I think it's really easy to get desensitized when
Speaker 3: you do a lot of stuff in understress with a
Speaker 3: lot of humans with a lot of problems, and so
Speaker 3: for you to actually be there in that moment and
Speaker 3: be fully present.
Speaker 1: Which you know, the stuff I've seen of you sitting
Speaker 1: with patients on the videos I've watched, and I can
Speaker 1: imagine because I think I get a bit of an
Speaker 1: idea about how you are. But yeah, you bring all
Speaker 1: your knowledge and skills and medical brain to the table,
Speaker 1: and of course, you know, which is a necessity. But
Speaker 1: then on top of that, when you bring empathy and
Speaker 1: awareness and kindness and presence where I'm actually here and
Speaker 1: I'm with you and I present, I'm not thinking about
Speaker 1: my lunch, I'm not looking at my watch, I'm not
Speaker 1: I'm not in a hurry. You know, that's such a
Speaker 1: gift to people. And you know, I think that's when
Speaker 1: people love their doctor. That's what they love about their doctor.
Speaker 1: What they love about their doctor is how that doctor
Speaker 1: makes them feel or how they how connected they feel
Speaker 1: to that person. Of course, you're want someone with knowledge
Speaker 1: and skills, but that's a given. But you know, so
Speaker 1: that's Do you think that just to me doing a
Speaker 1: bloody monologue, shut up, ups. Do you think that pre accident,
Speaker 1: post accident, your level of empathy changed?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I think pre accident, you don't know, I was
Speaker 2: never a patient, like I mean, I told you about
Speaker 2: the depression and all those things, but I was never
Speaker 2: a patient in a hospital going through this type of experience,
Speaker 2: so I didn't understand what it was like. And I
Speaker 2: had this really crystallizing moment about this because there was
Speaker 2: this guy who gave us a lecture once before that accident,
Speaker 2: and he was an emergency physician who worked with Queensland Ambulance.
Speaker 2: I looked at his lecture, I'm like, fire, this guy
Speaker 2: is awesome. I want to I want to be like
Speaker 2: you know, I want to do what he's doing and
Speaker 2: whatever else. And then he happened to be in the
Speaker 2: ambulance when I had that accident.
Speaker 1: Oh one of the trances.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 2: So the thing though about that is, you know, I
Speaker 2: knew I was a doctor, I knew all that was
Speaker 2: under control. But it's now ten years later and I
Speaker 2: remember how he made me feel hmm, and that has
Speaker 2: informed how I try to with my patients. And imagine
Speaker 2: making that impact on someone where they remember it ten
Speaker 2: years later, that's that. I think that's pretty powerful. I
Speaker 2: was within for maybe fifteen, twenty, maybe thirty minutes, and
Speaker 2: he made that impact on me, which has been life
Speaker 2: probably gonna be lifelong, and has a flow and effect
Speaker 2: to my own patients.
Speaker 1: Isn't that incredible when you maybe can't even remember what
Speaker 1: someone said specifically or the specifics of that moment in time,
Speaker 1: but you just feel that being around that person had
Speaker 1: an energetic impact on you and an emotional and a
Speaker 1: psychological I like in a really positive way. But don't
Speaker 1: you think that Melissa too, that there are people that
Speaker 1: and you don't even know why there are people that.
Speaker 1: It's just there's something about their energy where you like
Speaker 1: being around that person definitely, you know. And then there
Speaker 1: are other people converts sleep and you go, oh boy, oh,
Speaker 1: this is a struggle. I try not to be the latter.
Speaker 1: I'm sure sometimes I am unless I apologize. I apologize.
Speaker 1: So so you so you finished law mate, and you
Speaker 1: kind of went not for the moment, and but you
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong. You went back with not recently,
Speaker 1: not went back, but you qualified as a lawyer recently.
Speaker 1: Is that right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you have to do that when you finish
Speaker 2: your law degree. There's you get the law degree, but
Speaker 2: there's a process. We have to be admitted as a
Speaker 2: lawyer and then you do some coursework and work experience
Speaker 2: and that sort of thing. Once you take that off,
Speaker 2: you get to turn up at the court and you know,
Speaker 2: they get to sign the role of lawyers. And I
Speaker 2: did that recently, and really the idea behind that was
Speaker 2: to inform some of that advocacy work and inclusivity stuff
Speaker 2: that I've been doing. So that that was a nice moment.
Speaker 1: Now, I know that when you came out of when
Speaker 1: you finished your degree and you got your cap and
Speaker 1: your gown and thumbs up and high fives and you
Speaker 1: know all that stuff, that that the challenges didn't stop. Then,
Speaker 1: So tell us a little bit about getting an actual job,
Speaker 1: because that was not that was not smooth sailing. Give
Speaker 1: us tell us a little bit about how that went down,
Speaker 1: and yeah, what happened.
Speaker 2: No, it wasn't a huge it wasn't a smooth sailing,
Speaker 2: and it was a very frustrating experience because I did
Speaker 2: well in medical school. I spent time in the hospital
Speaker 2: as a student. I proved myself as much as I could.
Speaker 2: I given spend some time at the Harvard Medical School
Speaker 2: and you did well there. So did all that stuff
Speaker 2: and had letters of recommendation from doctors and whatever else.
Speaker 2: So when you graduate as a doctor in Australia, you
Speaker 2: you you're guaranteed a job if you're a domestic student
Speaker 2: and you put your name into this ballot and you
Speaker 2: put down where you want to work, and then you're
Speaker 2: the ballot system sort of. You know, get you a job.
Speaker 2: But I've just got a letter saying that, hey, you've
Speaker 2: got you you know, because of your spine cort injury,
Speaker 2: we need to take your name out of the ballot
Speaker 2: more consider it separately. But this just turned into this massive,
Speaker 2: long process and they wouldn't really tell me what what
Speaker 2: this what the details of this process was. They all
Speaker 2: these delays. They wanted me to get medical medical reports,
Speaker 2: and I got registration as well, so I've got registration
Speaker 2: whatever else I mean, then there were saying, you know,
Speaker 2: you're probably not going to start work with your with
Speaker 2: your colleagues, and so it took a lot of advocacine.
Speaker 2: It took a lot of support as well, you know,
Speaker 2: from the community, from the media, from other doctors and
Speaker 2: some politicians as well. Like it took a lot of
Speaker 2: work and advocacy to get the job initially and even
Speaker 2: since then, like in twenty eighteen, I was called coos
Speaker 2: Helts Junior Doctor of the Year. But even after that,
Speaker 2: I've you know, it's become a lot smooth sailing. Like
Speaker 2: I work in the ED and it's a great team
Speaker 2: and a great set of bosses that I work on it.
Speaker 2: But along the way I've still had some challenges where
Speaker 2: you know, no matter how hard you work and no
Speaker 2: matter how well you try to do, the people still
Speaker 2: ask questions. So I had a few bumps along the way,
Speaker 2: but I think now now I'm in a great spots
Speaker 2: and work works going smoothly. But it certainly took a
Speaker 2: lot of fighting to get here. But it's been worth it,
Speaker 2: you know. Like like I said, it's worth it for
Speaker 2: the patients. It's worth it for the people that I
Speaker 2: get to do things for, even though they're establishment wasn't
Speaker 2: as supportive.
Speaker 1: So here's my red herring question from left field. Do
Speaker 1: you have Is there a spiritual component to who you
Speaker 1: are and how you are? And if so, what does
Speaker 1: that look like you?
Speaker 2: If I had to put a label on it, I
Speaker 2: would say that I'm agnostic, but I often think about things,
Speaker 2: you know, like I often think about I think I'm
Speaker 2: still trying to find meaning in that whether there's something
Speaker 2: larger than me. But what gets me through is just
Speaker 2: trying to be a good person, you know, And it's
Speaker 2: really it's just the basics. Like you know, I was
Speaker 2: still going to have a friend the other week and
Speaker 2: she said, oh, you can tell a white life, like
Speaker 2: a white life is still a lie, right, So it's
Speaker 2: just about those basic qualities. And I'm trying to always
Speaker 2: try to make sure that a person of integrity, that
Speaker 2: I'm always giving back and I'm always trying to do
Speaker 2: good for the world, because I think that that's important. Spiritually,
Speaker 2: I think it's it's still a search because I also
Speaker 2: don't want to do something, you know, whether it be
Speaker 2: like a formalized faith system or whether it's something I
Speaker 2: don't want to do something just because to do it,
Speaker 2: like I really want to feel it, you know, if I.
Speaker 1: Was that And I think one of that, sorry, I
Speaker 1: think one of the compromises of I'm not saying people
Speaker 1: shouldn't be religious or they and belong to a faith
Speaker 1: or a church or a synagogue or a fill in
Speaker 1: the blank, but is that once you belong to that,
Speaker 1: then you kind of have to align on everything because
Speaker 1: you go, I'm a I practice this, you know, and
Speaker 1: then there's an element of freedom of thinking that goes
Speaker 1: out the window, because you know, your ideology and philosophy
Speaker 1: and thought process need to align with that particular theology
Speaker 1: or philosophy or way of being. I guess, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it just interested me because I think when I
Speaker 1: was training you might find this interesting. But I was
Speaker 1: training a year ago and a year ago and a
Speaker 1: week with my training partner. So it was literally about,
Speaker 1: you know, fifty three weeks ago. I was in the
Speaker 1: gym with my training partner, who's cutlety, is younger than me,
Speaker 1: very fit, very strong, very lean, doesn't drink, doesn't smoke,
Speaker 1: healthy lifestyle, all that stuff. Did a set of thirty
Speaker 1: chin ups the neesh, and because he's a journeyus, he
Speaker 1: held his breath the whole time. So held his breath
Speaker 1: for thirty chins, came down, had a cardiac arrest. Yeah,
Speaker 1: dude died on the gym floor. Dead. They're dead dead.
Speaker 1: So I started working on him, you know, straight instantly,
Speaker 1: Like there's like twenty seconds maybe within from when he exhaled,
Speaker 1: and you know, it was a bit there's a few
Speaker 1: things going on that we won't go into, but so
Speaker 1: I started working on him, and he was The paramedics
Speaker 1: got their ten minutes later, and he was dead for
Speaker 1: seventeen minutes. But it's just interesting how people go like
Speaker 1: when anyway, he's fine, now he's got a pacemaker, and
Speaker 1: they don't even know why because he didn't have a
Speaker 1: heart attack. He just arrested, and I think it could
Speaker 1: have been. He also had before training this progressing from
Speaker 1: your story, sorry but you might find it interesting. But
Speaker 1: before he trained, So this is the guy that doesn't drink,
Speaker 1: doesn't do drugs, all this, he used to have this
Speaker 1: pre workout kind of you know how some of the
Speaker 1: the groovers have pre workout stuff, right. And I looked
Speaker 1: at it, and he had a double dose. And I
Speaker 1: did the I did the calculations, and my best guess
Speaker 1: is and remember it's in about I don't know, one
Speaker 1: hundred mil of liquid, about the same as ten coffees.
Speaker 2: So that's insane.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's you know, he's fifty three or whatever,
Speaker 1: fifty two, a moron, a lovable moron, but a moron.
Speaker 1: He's having ten coffees or the equivalent in one hundred
Speaker 1: mil of liquid and then holding his breath for thirty reps.
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, no, wonder you died, You fuck an idiot,
Speaker 1: And thank goodness you didn't do that when you're at
Speaker 1: home working under the car or something, you know. So,
Speaker 1: but it's funny because in that moment he Some people
Speaker 1: have these really life changing encounters or moments or and
Speaker 1: he's like, nah, it's like when to sleep for half
Speaker 1: an hour whatever. Absolutely, the people that you've worked with
Speaker 1: that have had you know, I just watched this weird
Speaker 1: show called The OA two seasons on Netflix. Don't watch
Speaker 1: it anyone, but it's a whole show about near death
Speaker 1: experiences and interdimensional travel. Clearly, I've got too much time
Speaker 1: on my hands, and this is why I'm struggling with
Speaker 1: my research. That just came to me. But anyway, you know,
Speaker 1: the people. Do you have much of this around people
Speaker 1: who have died or nearly died, or where there's some awakening,
Speaker 1: some big moment or revelation or spiritual wake up.
Speaker 2: See working in the ED.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'm getting yeah, because you're not with it
Speaker 1: that long out.
Speaker 2: But I think I've certainly had some thoughts because after
Speaker 2: this spine courting drug, the initial phases of such an injury,
Speaker 2: it's involved in so many complications. So I've been in
Speaker 2: the ICU a couple of times and I've been very,
Speaker 2: very sick from it. And those moments really do those
Speaker 2: moments really do make you think about life again a
Speaker 2: bit more and make you I think it's about going
Speaker 2: back to the basics, right and then doing that. But
Speaker 2: it's up. Certainly. There was a one time where I
Speaker 2: had an issue with my lung and they thought that
Speaker 2: it was cancer initially and waiting for that result, and
Speaker 2: you're just sitting there and going, oh my gosh, if yeah,
Speaker 2: please let this not be cancer and I will live
Speaker 2: an amazing life. Yes, So you do have those moments
Speaker 2: where things you start to think about things different, or
Speaker 2: you kind of reground yourself.
Speaker 1: And did you do you ever think who am I
Speaker 1: saying please to?
Speaker 2: Exactly?
Speaker 1: To whom is this? To? Whom is this person that
Speaker 1: I'm requesting this from? Yeah, I think that's Tom Cruise,
Speaker 1: Oprah Cruise. Definitely not Tom Cruise. Mate. Tell us about
Speaker 1: as I went through your series of interviews and you know,
Speaker 1: jumping from podcasts to videos and things. So you've you've
Speaker 1: got a partner, now, you've got a fiance. Now tell
Speaker 1: us about her relationships.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's another challenging thing, and I was I
Speaker 2: was thinking about this yesterday. I'm still in someone because
Speaker 2: it's not a it's not normal you know, inverted comments,
Speaker 2: it's not a normal thing. Like I can't I don't
Speaker 2: do some of the normal things like dance or hold
Speaker 2: hands and walk on the beach, for example, or whatever else.
Speaker 2: So it's it's very different. But I think you also
Speaker 2: start to realize maybe normal isn't so important, you know,
Speaker 2: maybe maybe it's about building a deeper connection and it's
Speaker 2: more about I think you start to value the fundamentals
Speaker 2: a bit more about that, like even physically, you know,
Speaker 2: and how long does that physical thing ask in a normal?
Speaker 1: And also and also what's normal? Dude, Like let's get
Speaker 1: let's get weird and philosophicalor what's normal? Normal is completely
Speaker 1: subjective because my normal would be your complete fucking madness.
Speaker 1: Your your normal would be my completely weird. Melissa's normal,
Speaker 1: Let's not even go there, because she's a whole project, right.
Speaker 1: That's she looks like Mary Poppins. It's a facade.
Speaker 2: Mary Proppins was probably freaky behind the scenes.
Speaker 1: She got crazy. Don't worry about that. But so has
Speaker 1: it been interesting for you too?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 1: And as much or as little as you want to share,
Speaker 1: but I'm just talking about general relationship stuff. Has that
Speaker 1: been an interesting challenge? Navigating how do we do this?
Speaker 1: How do we do life together? How do we do relationship?
Speaker 1: How do we do marriage? How is that going to
Speaker 1: practically work? And yeah, we won't be walking on the
Speaker 1: beach anytime soon holding hands or dancing or you know,
Speaker 1: ten pin bowling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it is. And I was very reluctant to
Speaker 2: get into it actually, so for you know, ten years,
Speaker 2: I didn't really need anyone or engage in that. Of
Speaker 2: that is because I was, you know, consumed in my
Speaker 2: own things otherwise, but part of that is because I
Speaker 2: was thinking, how do I do this? Do I want
Speaker 2: to do it? Like what will it look like? And
Speaker 2: I guess the other aspect of that is I always
Speaker 2: have a lot of people in my close proximity, whether
Speaker 2: it be you know, my mom or my the boys
Speaker 2: that helped me out, whatever else. So a lot of
Speaker 2: it is very visible now, so that adds another dimension
Speaker 2: to the relationship. But I think you just take it
Speaker 2: one step at a time and and I think a
Speaker 2: lot of it is also in your own head. It
Speaker 2: was in my own head. You know, you're scared about
Speaker 2: a lot of things, You fear a lot of things,
Speaker 2: but then they're like, oh hey, actually this is okay
Speaker 2: and it works. So relationships were like that, but it's
Speaker 2: definitely not straightforward, and I think that's OK.
Speaker 1: Melissa, you watched the docco that I sent you. How
Speaker 1: much do you love? How much do you love Danesha's mom? Ah,
Speaker 1: she's gorgeous. Can you tell us maybe a bit about
Speaker 1: that relationship that you have with her because she seems
Speaker 1: so special.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's an incredible woman. And you know, she's been
Speaker 2: a big part of my life since I was a kid.
Speaker 2: She's always been one that taught me that anything is possible.
Speaker 2: And other people around me when I was growing up.
Speaker 2: You know, I remember this conversation once where I wonder
Speaker 2: if I could be an astronaut and the responsors all, no,
Speaker 2: being an astronauts really hard, and only a couple of
Speaker 2: people get to that point, and you know, like that
Speaker 2: sort of response, and you do. I think you do
Speaker 2: so much damaged at kids thinking back, but it's really
Speaker 2: not what we need today. We need kids to be
Speaker 2: able to feel that they can do anything, be anything.
Speaker 2: So my mom was actually fortunately the opposite of that,
Speaker 2: and she always encouraged me to She helped me start
Speaker 2: my own business when I was in high school. I
Speaker 2: got flying lessons when I was in high school, she
Speaker 2: taught me how to drive She told me how to shave,
Speaker 2: She taught me how to do all this stuff, taught me,
Speaker 2: you know, how to look after my bank account, all that,
Speaker 2: and all these ideas like medical school, being a lawyer
Speaker 2: like she's she's made a big influence and even today,
Speaker 2: you know, my dad, their marriage didn't survive this accident,
Speaker 2: but she's been there every single day. I'm taking this
Speaker 2: journey with me, So we're really close and it's just
Speaker 2: a different relationship and I'm very grateful to have her
Speaker 2: in mamma, and it's just been an awesome thing, you know.
Speaker 2: But I guess that's another thing that it adds another
Speaker 2: unique dimension to another interpersonal relationship, because there's that as
Speaker 2: well amazing.
Speaker 1: She's gorgeous. I love my mom a lot. Your Mum's right.
Speaker 1: I brag about my mum and I saw your mom
Speaker 1: and I went, Mary, you've got some competition. Because bloody Belta.
Speaker 1: Where are we at for time? Melessa, We're about fifty
Speaker 1: five minutes in, all right, let's start to wind up.
Speaker 1: May tell us a little bit about doctors with disabilities Australia.
Speaker 2: That came about from you know, it was the issues
Speaker 2: that I had going through employment and there were some
Speaker 2: barriers that would put up for medical students with disabilities
Speaker 2: after it came back from me well as well. So
Speaker 2: Australia had this national policy that specified different physical capabilities
Speaker 2: that a medical student should have very explicitly and some
Speaker 2: even some interpersonal things, and it would have excluded me
Speaker 2: as a medical student if that was applied. So we
Speaker 2: me and this guy called Harry Emon, who is a
Speaker 2: guy a person preceded me. He got Gillan Barre syndrome
Speaker 2: and he was in medical school and used a wheelchair.
Speaker 2: And Hannah Jackson who's a GP in Tasmania. She has osteogenesism.
Speaker 2: Perfecto music will just so we got together and said,
Speaker 2: you know what, we need to start changing some of
Speaker 2: these things and sharing our experiences with people who want
Speaker 2: to navigate this maze that we have. That's how it
Speaker 2: came about, and it's been an awesome journey because those
Speaker 2: policies are being rewritten. Now we've done We've managed to
Speaker 2: chieve quite a few things in Australia around making medicine
Speaker 2: more inclusive. So it's been a really cool journey. Now
Speaker 2: we're looking at jeez, what's next.
Speaker 1: I saw you in one of the videos with some
Speaker 1: some Italian research dude who look like a bit of
Speaker 1: a journey us also putting some weird looking thing on
Speaker 1: your head which looked like a helmet with a bunch
Speaker 1: of wires and stuff. And you're on a bike and
Speaker 1: he is, and you are I think involved in some capacity.
Speaker 1: I'm fucking this up, so correct me. But with are
Speaker 1: they're looking at technology now that will kind of almost
Speaker 1: the electrical impulses will bypass the injury site to innovate
Speaker 1: the muscles to be able to walk or ride or like.
Speaker 1: Is that what they're looking at.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, there's a bunch of studies going on in
Speaker 2: that area. The cool thing is we found there's so
Speaker 2: in about in or around twenty thirteen, there was a
Speaker 2: study in some rats or mice in Switzerland and they
Speaker 2: used electrical stimulation and drug therapy in mice with spinal
Speaker 2: cord injury, and using those therapies and after training them
Speaker 2: to walk again, these mice were able to voluntarily move
Speaker 2: their hind limbs again. After me, wow, So then they
Speaker 2: did autopsy on these mice and they found that after
Speaker 2: the lesion that they caused in the spinal cord injury,
Speaker 2: new neurons had grown back, so the board had pickened
Speaker 2: out again by about twenty five percent. So this is
Speaker 2: really exciting. And they've applied some of these therapies to
Speaker 2: humans with electrical stimulation drugs and also thought control using EG,
Speaker 2: which is what we're doing. So we put all these
Speaker 2: things together. In early human trials, they're found that the
Speaker 2: people are able to voluntarily move their things again for
Speaker 2: the first time in history. So it is happening. It's
Speaker 2: been shown to be possible, and we're building all this
Speaker 2: science here. So that's my that's what I do outside
Speaker 2: of clinical work, and you know, a part of that
Speaker 2: is actually engaging the mind and train you know, because
Speaker 2: with traditional rehab, people aren't actually engaged. They're not thinking
Speaker 2: about walking, they're not thinking that, but here you're forced
Speaker 2: to do that. And the drug therapy is actually an
Speaker 2: anti anxiety drug that's been around for ages. That's what's
Speaker 2: been used in a lot of these trials, and we
Speaker 2: you know, the hypothesis is that because if you use antidepressant,
Speaker 2: it doesn't really work that well without psychotherapy, right, you
Speaker 2: need and that's that's probably that's a training mechanism. So
Speaker 2: these drugs probably prime the nervous system for change and
Speaker 2: then you have to train it to change. So that's
Speaker 2: what we're doing and it's really exciting. We've got two
Speaker 2: million dollars from the Murtor Accident Insurance Commission the Queensland
Speaker 2: Government late last year and we're just plowing on with
Speaker 2: this work. And you know, I want to stand.
Speaker 1: Again one day.
Speaker 2: The last thing I did standing up voluntarily, the very
Speaker 2: last thing was hug my mom. Wow, And that was
Speaker 2: a super cool thing. I'm glad I did that. So
Speaker 2: who was listening, Guys, Hug your mom, Hug whoever you
Speaker 2: love every day. You never know it might be the
Speaker 2: last thing that you do. And I want to do
Speaker 2: that again.
Speaker 1: Well that'll be the first thing you do when you
Speaker 1: stand next time. Now, I definitely don't make me crime
Speaker 1: on podcast. I'll have to come up and kick you
Speaker 1: in the fucking wheelchair. You would, Yeah, of course I would.
Speaker 2: I'm heartless.
Speaker 1: Tell us if people want to connect with you or
Speaker 1: I know who's done in undating with a million questions
Speaker 1: and all that, But if people want you, are you
Speaker 1: available for speaking gigs and all that kind of stuff
Speaker 1: for what's the deal? Or if people want to follow
Speaker 1: you on social media? Or how does that work?
Speaker 2: So I have no social media except LinkedIn, so call
Speaker 2: me on LinkedIn. I'm also I think on the Griffith
Speaker 2: University website you should be able to contact me as well,
Speaker 2: so I feel free to get in touch, love to chat, yeah,
Speaker 2: and moreays available to talk about any cool things that
Speaker 2: you want to do.
Speaker 1: Well. You are an inspiring human and I don't say
Speaker 1: that lightly. You're amazing, and I'm sure we can't but
Speaker 1: if there's anything we can do in our tiny, humble
Speaker 1: little podcast down here to support you, or if you
Speaker 1: know we can my my family of listeners can support
Speaker 1: you or help you or help our cause in some way,
Speaker 1: let us know and hopefully we can have you back
Speaker 1: again and go deeper on a few things. But we
Speaker 1: really appreciate your time today, mate.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, thanks for having me and vice versa. If
Speaker 2: that can be of help to you or any of
Speaker 2: your listeners, reach.
Speaker 1: Out, stop it stopp being such a good human now.
Speaker 1: I feel you're amazing. Listen, do you want to say
Speaker 1: goodbye to our friends? Stay on the call, mate, We'll
Speaker 1: talk to you once we're done.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Denesh.
Speaker 1: That was absolutely fascinating, So thank you so much for
Speaker 1: taking the time. We really do appreciate it. Thanks for
Speaker 1: having me guys, Thanks mate, Thanks everyone, Love you, Gut
Speaker 1: to see you next time.