1 00:00:05,921 --> 00:00:07,801 Speaker 1: Apoche production. 2 00:00:11,561 --> 00:00:14,161 Speaker 2: On a sunny Saturday at the football in Adelaide in 3 00:00:14,241 --> 00:00:15,561 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy three. 4 00:00:15,561 --> 00:00:17,761 Speaker 3: And the rover will put it forward from Santa Wing 5 00:00:17,801 --> 00:00:19,881 Speaker 3: towards Santa harf Ford Hobby in the front point, couldn't 6 00:00:19,881 --> 00:00:21,921 Speaker 3: pull it down, Knocked on intelligently. 7 00:00:21,361 --> 00:00:22,281 Speaker 4: By sorl Format. 8 00:00:23,121 --> 00:00:25,841 Speaker 2: Eleven year old Joanne Ratcliffe took her four year old 9 00:00:25,881 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 2: friend Kirsty Gordon to the toilet. They were never seen again. 10 00:00:37,801 --> 00:00:42,601 Speaker 2: Fifty three years later, joeanne sister Susie is still searching well. 11 00:00:42,601 --> 00:00:44,681 Speaker 5: Of all the baffling crimes that have been committed in 12 00:00:44,681 --> 00:00:47,801 Speaker 5: this city, few are more heartbreaking than the disappearance of 13 00:00:47,881 --> 00:00:51,441 Speaker 5: Kirsty Gordon and Johann Ratcliffe. But not having I bought 14 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 5: it to bury and to actually grieve for her. 15 00:00:56,081 --> 00:01:04,961 Speaker 2: Probably there are theories. 16 00:01:03,761 --> 00:01:06,241 Speaker 3: That were seen in the of a man wearing a 17 00:01:06,361 --> 00:01:10,321 Speaker 3: check coat and a brimmed hat leading them from the ground, 18 00:01:11,041 --> 00:01:13,601 Speaker 3: never to be seen again. It was a crime that 19 00:01:15,441 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 3: one would think was a part of child abuse type 20 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,720 Speaker 3: of thing, you know, So. 21 00:01:22,721 --> 00:01:24,241 Speaker 5: Do you think there could be a link between what 22 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 5: pedophilia and the battle? 23 00:01:25,801 --> 00:01:27,961 Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely no doubt about that. 24 00:01:28,241 --> 00:01:32,121 Speaker 6: Suspects he should probably be in a mental institution to 25 00:01:32,121 --> 00:01:34,520 Speaker 6: tell you the truth rather than imprison. 26 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,721 Speaker 5: The gentleman that was dressed in women's clothing was sort 27 00:01:38,721 --> 00:01:42,241 Speaker 5: of loitering around where the ladies toilets were. 28 00:01:43,081 --> 00:01:46,361 Speaker 6: Rumors its childhood and how do you access that while 29 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:49,201 Speaker 6: you're in prisons, And he was put on that property 30 00:01:49,361 --> 00:01:52,881 Speaker 6: by government. He was sent out to there to get 31 00:01:52,961 --> 00:01:56,681 Speaker 6: him away from Adelaide because he was molesting too many children. 32 00:01:56,841 --> 00:01:58,361 Speaker 2: And possible cover ups. 33 00:01:58,881 --> 00:02:04,081 Speaker 6: If you've got a pedophile ring that's catering for the 34 00:02:04,561 --> 00:02:08,081 Speaker 6: high high end of anxiety, you'd probably want to protect 35 00:02:08,081 --> 00:02:10,241 Speaker 6: that bit of borring. 36 00:02:11,361 --> 00:02:15,001 Speaker 2: What happened to Joe Anne and Kirsty and I. 37 00:02:15,081 --> 00:02:18,761 Speaker 5: Just appeal to those outdo that may have close answers, 38 00:02:19,001 --> 00:02:24,561 Speaker 5: please find it within your heart during crime stoppers can 39 00:02:24,641 --> 00:02:28,921 Speaker 5: put an end to our pain. Thank you, Susan. 40 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,681 Speaker 2: Susie Ratcliffe has lived for the last forty seven years 41 00:02:42,161 --> 00:02:45,881 Speaker 2: never hearing her sister Joanne's voice. She's made it a 42 00:02:45,921 --> 00:02:48,361 Speaker 2: life's mission to not only try and find closure for 43 00:02:48,401 --> 00:02:51,721 Speaker 2: her family, but to help other families who have suffered 44 00:02:51,761 --> 00:02:57,601 Speaker 2: loss due to a long term missing person. Susie hasn't 45 00:02:57,601 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 2: been alone in the search. Countless police officers have been 46 00:03:01,121 --> 00:03:02,761 Speaker 2: on the case from the early seventies. 47 00:03:04,361 --> 00:03:07,921 Speaker 3: Even though Lehman's been long retired from the police force, 48 00:03:08,481 --> 00:03:11,081 Speaker 3: it's a case he can never forget. I had a 49 00:03:11,161 --> 00:03:15,041 Speaker 3: very good staff on, quite a few detectives in circlets 50 00:03:15,081 --> 00:03:18,121 Speaker 3: working with me, many out in the field now of course, 51 00:03:18,161 --> 00:03:22,081 Speaker 3: men in the operations room, shifting through everything that came in. 52 00:03:22,841 --> 00:03:26,041 Speaker 2: Her brother David, her mum and dad, along with the 53 00:03:26,041 --> 00:03:29,321 Speaker 2: Australian public have all tried to help to find an answer. 54 00:03:30,121 --> 00:03:32,201 Speaker 2: I wanted to know if Susie was happy with the 55 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:32,921 Speaker 2: police effort. 56 00:03:34,401 --> 00:03:37,681 Speaker 1: Yes and no. I know that. 57 00:03:38,041 --> 00:03:42,041 Speaker 5: You know, back when the girls first disappeared, you know, 58 00:03:42,281 --> 00:03:49,121 Speaker 5: the circumstances surrounding the disappearance were unique. I mean the 59 00:03:49,721 --> 00:03:53,841 Speaker 5: police had never really dealt with anything like it other 60 00:03:53,881 --> 00:03:57,921 Speaker 5: than the Beaumont children seven years prior. So they were 61 00:03:57,961 --> 00:04:02,721 Speaker 5: still finding their feet the want of a better saying. 62 00:04:03,481 --> 00:04:07,481 Speaker 5: So it was it was something differ for them. I mean, 63 00:04:07,521 --> 00:04:10,761 Speaker 5: they didn't have the use of technology like we do today. 64 00:04:10,801 --> 00:04:14,321 Speaker 5: There was no CCTV footage, you know, they didn't have 65 00:04:14,401 --> 00:04:17,801 Speaker 5: social media like we do now in a Facebook and 66 00:04:18,401 --> 00:04:22,921 Speaker 5: Twitter and Instagram play an integral part in a lot 67 00:04:22,921 --> 00:04:26,320 Speaker 5: of our society nowadays. So it was quite difficult for 68 00:04:26,361 --> 00:04:30,281 Speaker 5: them back then, of course, you know, DNA testing and 69 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 5: stuff like that was, you know, it was still in 70 00:04:32,681 --> 00:04:34,801 Speaker 5: its infancy. The fact that it was in such a 71 00:04:34,801 --> 00:04:38,961 Speaker 5: public area and there was very little of any evidence 72 00:04:39,921 --> 00:04:44,721 Speaker 5: left behind, it was an incredibly difficult investigation right from 73 00:04:44,961 --> 00:04:52,801 Speaker 5: the start. Over the years, we've had some questionable contact 74 00:04:53,281 --> 00:04:57,441 Speaker 5: or lack of contact from police. I mean, I understand 75 00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,241 Speaker 5: that there are so many cases of missing persons and 76 00:05:00,361 --> 00:05:07,121 Speaker 5: homicides going on every day. It doesn't take much for 77 00:05:08,041 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 5: a five minute phone call to a family to say, look, 78 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 5: we haven't forgotten you. We're still piecing together information, we're 79 00:05:19,361 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 5: still working on your daughter's case. The lack of contact 80 00:05:24,081 --> 00:05:26,921 Speaker 5: was a great concern and has been an ongoing concern, 81 00:05:28,201 --> 00:05:34,601 Speaker 5: especially for me, because I've watched my mum, you know, 82 00:05:35,041 --> 00:05:40,241 Speaker 5: slowly give up hope. You know, I watched my brother, 83 00:05:42,001 --> 00:05:44,601 Speaker 5: you know, go through the agony of the realization that, 84 00:05:45,641 --> 00:05:48,041 Speaker 5: in all likelihood will never be able to bring her 85 00:05:48,081 --> 00:05:52,241 Speaker 5: home and bury her before they pass. And unfortunately that's 86 00:05:52,401 --> 00:05:53,481 Speaker 5: exactly what happened. 87 00:05:54,241 --> 00:05:57,001 Speaker 2: They believe there are still people out there that know 88 00:05:57,161 --> 00:06:00,081 Speaker 2: what happened here that day, and they're pleading with them 89 00:06:00,241 --> 00:06:01,081 Speaker 2: to come forward. 90 00:06:01,361 --> 00:06:03,361 Speaker 4: I want to be able to lay my dad's tortured 91 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:07,001 Speaker 4: soul to rest, and I want to be able to 92 00:06:07,041 --> 00:06:10,841 Speaker 4: look my mum in the faces that Mom, we're bringing 93 00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:11,600 Speaker 4: Sissy home. 94 00:06:12,761 --> 00:06:18,121 Speaker 7: I would like the police to keep working on our case, 95 00:06:18,721 --> 00:06:24,200 Speaker 7: and not just our case, but everybody's cases, because I 96 00:06:24,241 --> 00:06:27,361 Speaker 7: don't want this passed on to our next generation. 97 00:06:27,521 --> 00:06:30,001 Speaker 5: I don't want my daughter to have to pick up 98 00:06:30,041 --> 00:06:33,681 Speaker 5: the fight and to pick up the push to locate 99 00:06:33,721 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 5: her Auntie joe Ane, or my nieces or their kids. 100 00:06:38,041 --> 00:06:40,201 Speaker 5: You know, we all deserve to be able. 101 00:06:39,961 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: To bring her home. 102 00:06:41,481 --> 00:06:45,601 Speaker 5: And if there's you know, evidence in the case files 103 00:06:45,641 --> 00:06:48,201 Speaker 5: that can do that, then you know, I certainly want 104 00:06:48,201 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 5: the police to work hard on that, as does every 105 00:06:51,801 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 5: family that has a missing person. You know, it's something 106 00:06:55,521 --> 00:06:59,361 Speaker 5: that you know, until you're actually walking in the shoes 107 00:06:59,921 --> 00:07:02,801 Speaker 5: of having a missing loved one, you don't understand the 108 00:07:02,841 --> 00:07:08,561 Speaker 5: concept of the pain and that and the loss through 109 00:07:08,601 --> 00:07:15,161 Speaker 5: this ambiguous suffering. It has been difficult knowing that, you know, 110 00:07:15,921 --> 00:07:21,521 Speaker 5: police have lost evidence over the years, or didn't follow 111 00:07:21,641 --> 00:07:25,521 Speaker 5: up phone calls that were made to crime stoppers, or 112 00:07:26,281 --> 00:07:32,081 Speaker 5: didn't you know, question you know certain people. You know, 113 00:07:32,161 --> 00:07:36,961 Speaker 5: there's there's just been a bit of not disinterest, but 114 00:07:37,961 --> 00:07:42,761 Speaker 5: just I don't know, just a lack of lack of 115 00:07:42,801 --> 00:07:49,401 Speaker 5: empathy to some degree from the police, and you know, 116 00:07:49,561 --> 00:07:55,601 Speaker 5: it's just, yeah, just it does irk me that, you know, 117 00:07:55,961 --> 00:08:00,481 Speaker 5: some things have been overlooked, you know, and you know, 118 00:08:00,521 --> 00:08:03,481 Speaker 5: we're just hoping that with this the new detective that's 119 00:08:03,521 --> 00:08:07,841 Speaker 5: that's on with the girl's case now that he has 120 00:08:07,921 --> 00:08:09,201 Speaker 5: that passion to drive. 121 00:08:10,681 --> 00:08:11,961 Speaker 1: To do what needs to be done. 122 00:08:13,961 --> 00:08:15,761 Speaker 2: Over the space of the forty seven years that the 123 00:08:15,801 --> 00:08:18,521 Speaker 2: girls have been missing, you can imagine the case has 124 00:08:18,601 --> 00:08:22,921 Speaker 2: changed hands multiple times. It's important to note that Susie 125 00:08:23,001 --> 00:08:26,161 Speaker 2: is not unhappy with the police efforts, but does wish 126 00:08:26,201 --> 00:08:28,801 Speaker 2: that over the long period there was a bit more 127 00:08:28,841 --> 00:08:32,041 Speaker 2: care and attention shown to her sister's case, and she 128 00:08:32,161 --> 00:08:35,441 Speaker 2: hopes that the new officer in charge can show as 129 00:08:35,521 --> 00:08:38,641 Speaker 2: much empathy as the initial two detectives that worked on 130 00:08:38,641 --> 00:08:40,881 Speaker 2: the case. Way back in the early. 131 00:08:40,721 --> 00:08:45,561 Speaker 5: Days, we had a number of detectives, like near the start, 132 00:08:45,601 --> 00:08:51,121 Speaker 5: we had John McCall and John Atwood, two fantastic detectives 133 00:08:51,161 --> 00:08:59,121 Speaker 5: that they they became friends of the family, not just detectives. 134 00:08:59,121 --> 00:09:02,281 Speaker 5: They took it on board. It was not something that 135 00:09:02,401 --> 00:09:04,481 Speaker 5: at the end of the day, they close the books 136 00:09:04,521 --> 00:09:07,361 Speaker 5: and go home and not think about the case until 137 00:09:07,361 --> 00:09:10,841 Speaker 5: the next day next time there at work. It was 138 00:09:10,881 --> 00:09:14,761 Speaker 5: something that consumed them and they they got to the 139 00:09:14,761 --> 00:09:17,761 Speaker 5: point where we weren't just you know, another case. While 140 00:09:17,841 --> 00:09:23,401 Speaker 5: we were we were friends. My mum up until the 141 00:09:23,521 --> 00:09:26,321 Speaker 5: day she passed away, was still receiving Christmas cards from 142 00:09:26,881 --> 00:09:30,401 Speaker 5: John McCall's wife. You know, we were invited to his funeral, 143 00:09:31,321 --> 00:09:35,041 Speaker 5: you know, with mum, you know, watched the kids grow up, 144 00:09:35,961 --> 00:09:38,801 Speaker 5: so there was there was certainly a closeness with those two. 145 00:09:38,841 --> 00:09:43,201 Speaker 5: But after they they were sort of retired or left 146 00:09:43,241 --> 00:09:46,761 Speaker 5: the force, it was we had a number of detectives 147 00:09:47,361 --> 00:09:50,321 Speaker 5: on the case, but you know, as Mum said to 148 00:09:50,321 --> 00:09:53,601 Speaker 5: me once, she wouldn't even she didn't even know who 149 00:09:53,681 --> 00:09:59,081 Speaker 5: was investigating the case through different periods of time, because 150 00:09:59,121 --> 00:10:03,841 Speaker 5: nobody would contact her. It was only if they'd suddenly 151 00:10:03,881 --> 00:10:09,961 Speaker 5: got information or you know, the papers or the TV 152 00:10:10,121 --> 00:10:12,521 Speaker 5: were going to come out with something that they'd remum 153 00:10:12,601 --> 00:10:15,361 Speaker 5: and go, oh, this is this is coming out or 154 00:10:15,441 --> 00:10:19,601 Speaker 5: this has happened. Be prepared, and then in later years 155 00:10:19,601 --> 00:10:20,201 Speaker 5: they didn't. 156 00:10:19,961 --> 00:10:20,441 Speaker 1: Even do that. 157 00:10:22,081 --> 00:10:24,321 Speaker 2: It's been a difficult year for Susie and her family. 158 00:10:27,001 --> 00:10:29,401 Speaker 2: She told us earlier of her own battle with mental 159 00:10:29,441 --> 00:10:32,201 Speaker 2: health and how it affected her search for closure. 160 00:10:33,121 --> 00:10:36,161 Speaker 5: I suppose I have sort of a blot. It's like 161 00:10:36,401 --> 00:10:42,081 Speaker 5: a little bit I haven't been there the dog hounding them, 162 00:10:42,361 --> 00:10:44,601 Speaker 5: which ideally I shouldn't have to do. I mean it 163 00:10:44,601 --> 00:10:49,721 Speaker 5: should be, you know, them sort of contact than the families. Initially, 164 00:10:49,801 --> 00:10:53,041 Speaker 5: when he first started on the case, he kept in 165 00:10:53,121 --> 00:10:57,321 Speaker 5: regular contact. He went out and met mum at my 166 00:10:57,361 --> 00:11:03,841 Speaker 5: brother's house in Adelaide. But you know, as you know, 167 00:11:03,961 --> 00:11:07,321 Speaker 5: inevitably they have to have to take themselves away from 168 00:11:07,321 --> 00:11:11,601 Speaker 5: the case to investigate other cases because unfortunately, there are 169 00:11:11,761 --> 00:11:15,961 Speaker 5: so many more homicides and missing persons happening every day, 170 00:11:17,801 --> 00:11:19,801 Speaker 5: so that we can't just have them dedicated just to 171 00:11:19,841 --> 00:11:25,921 Speaker 5: our case. But I've spoken with the Victims of Crime 172 00:11:25,961 --> 00:11:29,961 Speaker 5: officer a number of times over the last eighteen months, 173 00:11:29,961 --> 00:11:32,241 Speaker 5: so she's been keeping me up to date with what's 174 00:11:32,241 --> 00:11:36,961 Speaker 5: been going on. There's always phone calls into crime stoppers 175 00:11:37,041 --> 00:11:42,321 Speaker 5: about the girl's case. There's been numerous, numerous calls, and 176 00:11:42,521 --> 00:11:45,921 Speaker 5: unfortunately the police can't sort of say whether it's a 177 00:11:45,961 --> 00:11:49,521 Speaker 5: crank call or it's viable information, so they have to 178 00:11:49,521 --> 00:11:57,001 Speaker 5: investigate every single call that comes in which can lead 179 00:11:57,041 --> 00:11:59,921 Speaker 5: them on a wild goose chase. It takes up precious time, 180 00:12:00,601 --> 00:12:07,201 Speaker 5: and so you know, that's been quite disheartening. But you know, unfortunately, 181 00:12:07,481 --> 00:12:12,641 Speaker 5: you know, as time goes on, you know, people pass away, 182 00:12:13,881 --> 00:12:17,721 Speaker 5: people get dementia or Alzheimer's, so information that they may 183 00:12:17,801 --> 00:12:26,081 Speaker 5: have could be forgotten. And unfortunately it's you know, it's 184 00:12:26,121 --> 00:12:31,441 Speaker 5: heartbreaking to know that we might not ever locate the girls. 185 00:12:32,041 --> 00:12:33,881 Speaker 5: But in so saying that I'm not going to give 186 00:12:33,921 --> 00:12:39,041 Speaker 5: up hope. Hope is all we have and if I 187 00:12:39,121 --> 00:12:41,841 Speaker 5: give that up, then we've got nothing. 188 00:12:45,321 --> 00:12:48,681 Speaker 2: As I'm talking to Susie on a zoom call, she's 189 00:12:48,721 --> 00:12:51,281 Speaker 2: in a Melbourne home. We're seeing each other down a 190 00:12:51,281 --> 00:12:54,721 Speaker 2: computer screen. But I noticed behind her there's a single 191 00:12:54,801 --> 00:12:58,361 Speaker 2: photo on the mantle. It's the same photo that Susie 192 00:12:58,401 --> 00:13:00,921 Speaker 2: as a child used to sneak out of her bedroom 193 00:13:00,961 --> 00:13:03,361 Speaker 2: while her mum and dad were consoling each other in 194 00:13:03,401 --> 00:13:08,441 Speaker 2: another room and talk to It's a picture of her sister, 195 00:13:09,401 --> 00:13:12,481 Speaker 2: the sister she never met, a big sister, Joanne. 196 00:13:13,681 --> 00:13:14,681 Speaker 1: But yeah, she's there. 197 00:13:14,881 --> 00:13:19,401 Speaker 5: She's also on my mantelpiece that we look at right 198 00:13:19,441 --> 00:13:22,201 Speaker 5: next to the TV, so she's always there. 199 00:13:22,761 --> 00:13:24,681 Speaker 1: And I'll actually get it to show it to you. 200 00:13:24,881 --> 00:13:38,321 Speaker 5: Hang on. She's in a better frame now. Yeah, she's 201 00:13:38,481 --> 00:13:43,001 Speaker 5: been knocked around a few times, but she's and the 202 00:13:43,361 --> 00:13:48,881 Speaker 5: fighter itself is I had it enlarged because it was 203 00:13:48,881 --> 00:13:51,121 Speaker 5: only a little one initially. 204 00:13:51,761 --> 00:13:55,041 Speaker 2: There's so much pain surrounding Susie's life. It's unimaginable to 205 00:13:55,201 --> 00:13:58,241 Speaker 2: try and comprehend how she feels and how losing a 206 00:13:58,321 --> 00:14:01,361 Speaker 2: brother and a mum and the sister she never knew 207 00:14:01,841 --> 00:14:06,241 Speaker 2: impacted her life. Her work would leave a that's a 208 00:14:06,281 --> 00:14:09,521 Speaker 2: glimmer of hope to those who were suffering from ambiguous loss, 209 00:14:10,401 --> 00:14:13,681 Speaker 2: but never does the pain that Susie must feel. I've 210 00:14:13,721 --> 00:14:16,801 Speaker 2: never asked Susie this question before, and it seems an 211 00:14:16,801 --> 00:14:21,921 Speaker 2: obvious one, but I wanted to know what she thinks 212 00:14:21,961 --> 00:14:24,161 Speaker 2: happened to her sister Joanne. 213 00:14:25,121 --> 00:14:26,081 Speaker 1: I believe that. 214 00:14:29,481 --> 00:14:34,281 Speaker 5: An incredibly evil person with no forethought to anyone else 215 00:14:34,321 --> 00:14:42,801 Speaker 5: but himself, abducted the two girls with extremely horrific intentions 216 00:14:43,081 --> 00:14:50,921 Speaker 5: in mind. I believe that Kirsty was the main target 217 00:14:51,561 --> 00:14:58,241 Speaker 5: and Joanne ended up being collateral damage because she wouldn't 218 00:14:58,641 --> 00:15:00,001 Speaker 5: give up Kirsty without a fight. 219 00:15:01,041 --> 00:15:04,521 Speaker 2: And do you believe that person that took them one 220 00:15:04,561 --> 00:15:07,281 Speaker 2: of the two people that have been mentioned as people 221 00:15:07,321 --> 00:15:07,801 Speaker 2: of interest. 222 00:15:09,881 --> 00:15:18,361 Speaker 5: I do. I have strong belief that heart was behind it. 223 00:15:20,841 --> 00:15:21,601 Speaker 1: Whether he. 224 00:15:23,321 --> 00:15:31,601 Speaker 5: Was part of a larger party of pedophiles that you know, 225 00:15:33,681 --> 00:15:38,921 Speaker 5: we're so big back in the day, you know, there's 226 00:15:38,961 --> 00:15:41,641 Speaker 5: there's that possibility, and there's been a lot of talk 227 00:15:42,241 --> 00:15:49,281 Speaker 5: around that, yeah, being that Yatna was a place where 228 00:15:51,081 --> 00:15:59,161 Speaker 5: children were taken. I have a a book that was 229 00:15:59,201 --> 00:16:06,081 Speaker 5: given to me by a lovely gentleman who grew up 230 00:16:06,161 --> 00:16:12,681 Speaker 5: in an orphanage in Adelaide. He was. 231 00:16:14,881 --> 00:16:15,841 Speaker 1: Put through. 232 00:16:17,561 --> 00:16:22,321 Speaker 5: An emotional turmoil as a child growing up in that orphanage. 233 00:16:23,001 --> 00:16:28,321 Speaker 5: He was a victim of a lot of sexual abuse 234 00:16:28,681 --> 00:16:33,561 Speaker 5: at the hands of a lot of different people. His 235 00:16:33,721 --> 00:16:41,761 Speaker 5: strength and tenacity to survive that and go on to 236 00:16:41,761 --> 00:16:46,081 Speaker 5: be an advocate against child abuse and sexual abuse against 237 00:16:46,121 --> 00:16:53,241 Speaker 5: children and to raise awareness of what not what just 238 00:16:53,441 --> 00:16:56,321 Speaker 5: he went through, but hundreds of not thousands of other 239 00:16:56,601 --> 00:17:01,721 Speaker 5: boys and girls went through at the hands of these pedophiles. 240 00:17:02,041 --> 00:17:12,801 Speaker 5: But he has spoken of numerous get together to put 241 00:17:12,801 --> 00:17:17,921 Speaker 5: it nicely in Jetna, which of course is where Stanley 242 00:17:17,961 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 5: Hart recited. And so my belief is that you know, 243 00:17:24,001 --> 00:17:30,321 Speaker 5: the girls were possibly taken for one of those get togethers. Initially, 244 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,121 Speaker 5: as I said, Kirsty being the target, but because Joanne 245 00:17:35,120 --> 00:17:40,360 Speaker 5: wouldn't give up and wouldn't let go, he's taken both 246 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:41,721 Speaker 5: of them. 247 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:48,201 Speaker 2: When you read that letter from Stanley Heart's grandson, how 248 00:17:48,241 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 2: difficult was that to read? 249 00:17:51,521 --> 00:17:58,401 Speaker 5: Took me over a week. The first couple of pages 250 00:17:58,521 --> 00:18:01,041 Speaker 5: wasn't too bad, and I thought to myself, I don't 251 00:18:01,041 --> 00:18:03,801 Speaker 5: know what Brian's on about, because he said he did 252 00:18:03,801 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 5: warm me. He said, look, it's pretty graphic, you know, 253 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,600 Speaker 5: make sure you don't read it alone. Have someone there 254 00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:16,761 Speaker 5: with you. Stupid me, didn't you know. I was like, 255 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,720 Speaker 5: I'll be right, Yeah, I can. I can do this. 256 00:18:19,761 --> 00:18:22,281 Speaker 5: It's not can't be that bad. Sat down with a 257 00:18:22,321 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 5: coffee while I'm home alone and read the first couple 258 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:31,240 Speaker 5: of pages. I said, ah, know what he's on about it, 259 00:18:31,241 --> 00:18:33,801 Speaker 5: it's not that bad. But then as I got further, 260 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:35,121 Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god. 261 00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:40,281 Speaker 1: I think the. 262 00:18:39,281 --> 00:18:48,160 Speaker 5: Biggest thing that got me was his description of going 263 00:18:48,201 --> 00:18:53,561 Speaker 5: to the dam and one of the barrels had lid 264 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:58,880 Speaker 5: had come off, and he saw Joanne inside that barrel. 265 00:19:00,041 --> 00:19:05,001 Speaker 1: With crabs crawling out of her face. From my cab. 266 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:06,961 Speaker 1: It is that that tuned into. 267 00:19:09,241 --> 00:19:17,400 Speaker 5: That that that unlune me. It took me a long 268 00:19:17,481 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 5: time to get that vision out of my head, but 269 00:19:22,761 --> 00:19:29,120 Speaker 5: it's it's something that you know, I forced myself to 270 00:19:29,761 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 5: continue with. But it's as I said, it took me 271 00:19:34,481 --> 00:19:41,401 Speaker 5: about a week to get through. Emotionally, it really unhinged me. 272 00:19:42,921 --> 00:19:47,761 Speaker 5: And then I confided to my brother that I'd read 273 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:54,400 Speaker 5: the statement and he got quite upset with me for 274 00:19:54,840 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 5: putting myself through that. And I think that was pretty 275 00:20:01,241 --> 00:20:04,481 Speaker 5: much the beginning of when I realized that I had 276 00:20:04,481 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 5: to take a start back from being so immersed in 277 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:15,561 Speaker 5: Joanne's case and sort of really delving myself into the investigation. 278 00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:21,760 Speaker 5: As I was doing, my brother and my sister were 279 00:20:21,801 --> 00:20:24,041 Speaker 5: both said to me that they were extremely worried about 280 00:20:24,041 --> 00:20:28,281 Speaker 5: me now my mental health. They were worried I was 281 00:20:28,281 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 5: going to go down the same sort of lines as 282 00:20:30,681 --> 00:20:36,441 Speaker 5: my dad. And that was a huge wake up call 283 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:40,080 Speaker 5: for me, and it's when I realized that I needed 284 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:41,001 Speaker 5: to take a step back. 285 00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,760 Speaker 2: In April, you had some terrible news. 286 00:20:45,321 --> 00:20:48,081 Speaker 5: Yeah, twenty twenty has certainly been a year that I 287 00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:53,680 Speaker 5: would quite happily forget of twenty nineteen. Twenty twenty has 288 00:20:53,721 --> 00:20:55,561 Speaker 5: been two years that I'd like to forget. 289 00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:00,521 Speaker 1: In April, I got. 290 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 5: The news that my brother had passed away. He he 291 00:21:08,321 --> 00:21:11,000 Speaker 5: had a heart attack and died in the arms of 292 00:21:11,041 --> 00:21:18,680 Speaker 5: his wife two weeks short or two months short, sorry, 293 00:21:18,801 --> 00:21:26,761 Speaker 5: of his sixtieth birthday. I mean you instead of you 294 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,561 Speaker 5: never expect the call, or you never you can never 295 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:34,041 Speaker 5: prepare yourself for anything like this. But last year when 296 00:21:34,241 --> 00:21:37,441 Speaker 5: I lost Mum, I was prepared to a certain point 297 00:21:37,561 --> 00:21:42,561 Speaker 5: because I knew her health was deteriorating, that she wasn't well, 298 00:21:42,761 --> 00:21:46,561 Speaker 5: and that, you know, every day that we had with 299 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:51,840 Speaker 5: her was an extra blessing. But to get the call 300 00:21:51,961 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 5: that David was gone, it just it flawed me, Like 301 00:21:59,321 --> 00:22:03,280 Speaker 5: it just it felt like somebody come up and just 302 00:22:03,441 --> 00:22:06,680 Speaker 5: ripped the rug right out from ane my fate, and 303 00:22:06,721 --> 00:22:10,441 Speaker 5: I was falling. It was just some unexpected I've only 304 00:22:10,481 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 5: spoken with him, you know, the previous week, and you know, 305 00:22:15,600 --> 00:22:20,600 Speaker 5: just joking on the phone, and you know, listening to 306 00:22:20,681 --> 00:22:25,920 Speaker 5: him rambling on about his bloody camper trailer. It was just, 307 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:29,960 Speaker 5: you know, it was such a shock, and I just 308 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:35,240 Speaker 5: I couldn't, I couldn't grasp grasp. But I thought, you know, 309 00:22:35,321 --> 00:22:42,801 Speaker 5: someone's playing some stupid joke. This is ridiculous, and it 310 00:22:43,001 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 5: just at that point, I just thought, you know, I'm it. 311 00:22:50,201 --> 00:22:56,640 Speaker 5: I'm the last of the immediate Ratcliffe family, and it 312 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,561 Speaker 5: just it floored me to think that, you know, we've 313 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:06,360 Speaker 5: we've fought so hard for so long, and everything that 314 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,681 Speaker 5: I've been fighting for is it hasn't been worth it 315 00:23:09,721 --> 00:23:13,440 Speaker 5: because I haven't got, you know, my brother or my 316 00:23:13,521 --> 00:23:16,840 Speaker 5: mum to give them the answers that they've longed for 317 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,961 Speaker 5: for so long. So I did hit an extremely deep hole. 318 00:23:24,321 --> 00:23:27,641 Speaker 5: And I'm not afraid to admit that I have been 319 00:23:27,721 --> 00:23:33,521 Speaker 5: diagnosed with depression and anxiety, which I was diagnosed after 320 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 5: Month passed away last year. And I so often speak 321 00:23:41,001 --> 00:23:49,241 Speaker 5: to family members missing loved ones, you know, and I 322 00:23:49,321 --> 00:23:53,200 Speaker 5: plead with them that if they're feeling, you know, emotions 323 00:23:53,241 --> 00:23:56,440 Speaker 5: like I have been, to please go and speak speak 324 00:23:56,441 --> 00:24:01,761 Speaker 5: with their doctor, to speak with a counselor. Because I 325 00:24:02,321 --> 00:24:06,201 Speaker 5: hit a really dark patch. Now, I will admit that 326 00:24:07,241 --> 00:24:09,921 Speaker 5: it was a really deep dark patch after David died. 327 00:24:10,521 --> 00:24:16,960 Speaker 5: Really the only thing that kept me going was my 328 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:23,921 Speaker 5: daughter who's fourteen years old, and my partner. They kept 329 00:24:23,961 --> 00:24:28,761 Speaker 5: the driving me. They kept me, you know, with that 330 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:35,801 Speaker 5: rational thinking. But you know, it's something that It was 331 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 5: a hard struggle, and there are still days now that 332 00:24:38,561 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 5: I have a dark day, But I remember Mum's mantra, 333 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,321 Speaker 5: keep putting one foot in front of the other, get 334 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,841 Speaker 5: up out of bed, put your hair, do your hair 335 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:57,160 Speaker 5: and makeup, have your shower, get yourself ready, even if 336 00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 5: you're not doing anything through the day, just sitting on 337 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:05,561 Speaker 5: your bum watching TV. Always get yourself up and ready. 338 00:25:06,441 --> 00:25:11,161 Speaker 5: So Mum's still here with me chanting. 339 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:11,360 Speaker 1: In my ear. 340 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,481 Speaker 2: How has what happened to your sister changed you as 341 00:25:18,481 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: a parent with your own daughter. 342 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 5: Oh, I'm certainly one of those helicopter parents, although my 343 00:25:26,761 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 5: blades have sort of dwindled a bit over the years. 344 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:38,880 Speaker 5: When she was younger, I was very, very overprotective. I 345 00:25:38,921 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 5: had to pull myself back a number of times because 346 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,521 Speaker 5: I've thought to myself, like, I don't want her growing 347 00:25:43,640 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 5: up like I did, where I couldn't go anywhere or 348 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:51,961 Speaker 5: do anything. I couldn't go visit my friends because Mum 349 00:25:52,041 --> 00:25:54,640 Speaker 5: and my brother were so petrified that the same thing 350 00:25:54,681 --> 00:25:57,440 Speaker 5: had happened to me as what happened to my sister. 351 00:25:58,321 --> 00:26:00,841 Speaker 5: So I had to be really careful about about those 352 00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:08,080 Speaker 5: those steps I took with tomorrow in saying that she 353 00:26:08,801 --> 00:26:12,080 Speaker 5: is very much aware of stranger danger. She has been. 354 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:15,400 Speaker 5: We taught her at a very young age how to 355 00:26:15,441 --> 00:26:18,321 Speaker 5: defend herself, what to say, what to do if someone 356 00:26:18,441 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 5: tried to take her. My brother and I taught her 357 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,201 Speaker 5: a few defensive moves, which we know does work because 358 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 5: my brother, bless him, poor bugger. He come home early 359 00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:36,561 Speaker 5: from work one day and we were around there visiting 360 00:26:37,201 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 5: his wife, and he snuck up behind Tomorrow, we're out 361 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 5: in the front yard. He's snuck up behind her and 362 00:26:44,481 --> 00:26:46,400 Speaker 5: meant to give her a bear hug from behind, and 363 00:26:47,001 --> 00:26:51,161 Speaker 5: she put her defensive moves into play, and he ended 364 00:26:51,201 --> 00:26:54,481 Speaker 5: up flat on the grass, rolling around, swearing that he's 365 00:26:55,001 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 5: now the regions were in the back of his stroke. 366 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:01,001 Speaker 1: It works. 367 00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:07,600 Speaker 5: She's now actually doing karate, so which is something that. 368 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:09,321 Speaker 2: You know. 369 00:27:09,441 --> 00:27:17,201 Speaker 5: I recommend for all people to learn, not just kids, 370 00:27:16,880 --> 00:27:20,921 Speaker 5: but adults as well, to learn some form of defensive moves, 371 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:24,321 Speaker 5: because you just never know when you might be put 372 00:27:24,321 --> 00:27:27,481 Speaker 5: in that position that you need to defend yourself. 373 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 2: Among families like mine who have suffered from a family 374 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,281 Speaker 2: member go missing, the leader light On foundation is a 375 00:27:36,281 --> 00:27:40,720 Speaker 2: shining light in some really dark days. Susie in The 376 00:27:40,761 --> 00:27:42,921 Speaker 2: work that a small team do for nothing more than 377 00:27:42,921 --> 00:27:46,521 Speaker 2: to help find answers shows that in a selfish world 378 00:27:46,561 --> 00:27:50,200 Speaker 2: where most people are content to look after themselves, people 379 00:27:50,241 --> 00:27:52,880 Speaker 2: like Susie Ratcliffe are there to help. 380 00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: Thank you. 381 00:27:55,761 --> 00:28:01,200 Speaker 5: You know, I don't do this for personal gratification or. 382 00:28:02,681 --> 00:28:03,441 Speaker 1: Notoriety. 383 00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,640 Speaker 5: Certainly don't do it for the money, because you know, 384 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:13,321 Speaker 5: I volunteer all of this. I do countless hours of 385 00:28:13,521 --> 00:28:16,241 Speaker 5: work on leave a lot on each and every day 386 00:28:18,041 --> 00:28:21,521 Speaker 5: because it touches my heart. You know, these of these 387 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:25,641 Speaker 5: families that I've come to know over the years, they're 388 00:28:25,681 --> 00:28:31,720 Speaker 5: not just families of a missing person. You know a 389 00:28:31,761 --> 00:28:37,760 Speaker 5: lot of these cases touch my heart deeply, and you know, 390 00:28:38,281 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 5: each and every single missing person is important to me. 391 00:28:43,721 --> 00:28:46,241 Speaker 5: You know, I don't care about their age, or their race, 392 00:28:46,401 --> 00:28:50,200 Speaker 5: or their religion, their ethnicity, you know what skeletons they 393 00:28:50,281 --> 00:28:52,881 Speaker 5: might have in their closet. You know all of these 394 00:28:52,921 --> 00:28:55,361 Speaker 5: people are someone's loved one. 395 00:28:57,081 --> 00:29:00,161 Speaker 2: You can help Susie by visiting the Leave a Light 396 00:29:00,321 --> 00:29:03,361 Speaker 2: Facebook page and sharing any stories you think. 397 00:29:03,161 --> 00:29:06,681 Speaker 5: Irrelevant, because the end of the day, I don't want 398 00:29:06,681 --> 00:29:09,841 Speaker 5: their loved ones to be forgotten. I mean, I'll never 399 00:29:09,881 --> 00:29:15,841 Speaker 5: be forgotten by their family but the general public need 400 00:29:15,921 --> 00:29:21,041 Speaker 5: to know that these people are loved and they're missed, 401 00:29:21,121 --> 00:29:24,001 Speaker 5: And it doesn't matter if they've been missing for three months, 402 00:29:24,161 --> 00:29:26,241 Speaker 5: three years, thirty years. 403 00:29:26,521 --> 00:29:27,041 Speaker 1: Or longer. 404 00:29:27,721 --> 00:29:32,000 Speaker 5: You know, they're still thought of every day, and they 405 00:29:32,081 --> 00:29:37,720 Speaker 5: still missed every day. And there's always those thousands of 406 00:29:37,801 --> 00:29:43,841 Speaker 5: questions that plague families that you know, they just wish 407 00:29:43,881 --> 00:29:44,681 Speaker 5: they had answers for. 408 00:29:45,481 --> 00:29:49,961 Speaker 2: My final question is, in relation to Kirsty and Joanne, 409 00:29:50,161 --> 00:29:50,961 Speaker 2: what do you hope for? 410 00:29:54,721 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 5: I just hope to be able to locate their remains, 411 00:29:57,761 --> 00:30:07,361 Speaker 5: bring them home, be able to bury them alongside my mum. 412 00:30:07,921 --> 00:30:16,921 Speaker 5: My dad's ashes were scattered across sea the oval, so 413 00:30:18,081 --> 00:30:26,161 Speaker 5: unfortunately we can't bury her with him. But you know, 414 00:30:26,681 --> 00:30:31,641 Speaker 5: just just knowing that, you know we've finally brought her 415 00:30:31,641 --> 00:30:35,561 Speaker 5: home and buried her with the love, dignity and respect 416 00:30:35,681 --> 00:30:39,281 Speaker 5: she and Kirsty deserve is what's most important to me. 417 00:30:40,401 --> 00:30:41,121 Speaker 1: I gave up. 418 00:30:41,041 --> 00:30:43,961 Speaker 5: Worrying about justice and finding out who did it and 419 00:30:44,001 --> 00:30:46,681 Speaker 5: why they did it or anything. I don't care about 420 00:30:46,681 --> 00:30:48,601 Speaker 5: any of that. I just want to be able to 421 00:30:48,601 --> 00:30:51,881 Speaker 5: bring the girls home. We deserve that, you know, we 422 00:30:52,001 --> 00:30:58,081 Speaker 5: deserve that opportunity, as do thousands of other families. So, 423 00:30:58,561 --> 00:31:02,481 Speaker 5: you know, my greatest hope is that someone out there 424 00:31:03,081 --> 00:31:09,161 Speaker 5: that has information finds it within themselves to come forward. 425 00:31:10,041 --> 00:31:14,081 Speaker 5: Areen crime stoppers, send anonymous notes to crime stoppers or 426 00:31:14,121 --> 00:31:17,401 Speaker 5: to police. You know, they don't have to give their 427 00:31:17,481 --> 00:31:20,440 Speaker 5: name if they don't want to, they can remain anonymous. 428 00:31:21,321 --> 00:31:23,921 Speaker 5: But now I think to myself, you know, there's there's 429 00:31:23,921 --> 00:31:28,601 Speaker 5: a million dollar award out there on offer, and that's 430 00:31:29,041 --> 00:31:34,641 Speaker 5: a million reasons to make that call to give our 431 00:31:34,681 --> 00:31:37,201 Speaker 5: families some form of resolution. 432 00:31:38,481 --> 00:32:24,000 Speaker 2: H Thanks for listening to this episode and supporting this story. 433 00:32:24,641 --> 00:32:27,801 Speaker 2: Independent storytelling that shapes the world is what podshape really 434 00:32:27,801 --> 00:32:30,761 Speaker 2: cares about. 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