1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,720 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Ailmam. 2 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,080 Sean Aylmer: Small businesses in Australia are under all sorts of pressure 3 00:00:12,160 --> 00:00:15,640 Sean Aylmer: right now, from rising costs in energy, rent and insurance, 4 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,799 Sean Aylmer: through to cyber attacks and grappling with complex changes to 5 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:22,000 Sean Aylmer: industrial relations. Small business owners have been hit hard in 6 00:00:22,079 --> 00:00:24,920 Sean Aylmer: the years since the pandemic, and those that are dependent 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:28,760 Sean Aylmer: on household discretionary spending are probably doing it even tougher. 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,840 Sean Aylmer: Food and beverage businesses, for instance, are facing a business 9 00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:35,680 Sean Aylmer: closure rate above nine percent, a record according to Credit 10 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:38,599 Sean Aylmer: to Watch. So what does the small business sector need 11 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,960 Sean Aylmer: from this federal election to ease the pressure on operators 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,200 Sean Aylmer: and help SMEs thrive. Luke Arkterstrat is the chief executive 13 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,559 Sean Aylmer: of COSBOA, the Council of Small Business Organizations Australia. Luke, 14 00:00:49,600 --> 00:00:51,640 Sean Aylmer: welcome back to Fear and Greed today. Sean, thanks for 15 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:56,280 Sean Aylmer: having me on the program. Characterize the state of small 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:57,640 Sean Aylmer: business in Australia at the moment. 17 00:00:58,880 --> 00:01:00,880 Luke Achterstraat,: You gave a pretty good a summary there of a 18 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,279 Luke Achterstraat,: lot of the live issues at play. You know, it's 19 00:01:03,320 --> 00:01:05,160 Luke Achterstraat,: interesting and the lead up to the election, a lot 20 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:07,880 Luke Achterstraat,: of the political commentary has been about what are the 21 00:01:07,880 --> 00:01:10,480 Luke Achterstraat,: top three issues. It's cost of living, cost of living 22 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,640 Luke Achterstraat,: and cost of living. From a small business perspective, we 23 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:17,040 Luke Achterstraat,: would suggest it's cost of doing business. So that ability 24 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:22,520 Luke Achterstraat,: to actually manage energy, rent, insurance, borrowing costs that you 25 00:01:22,600 --> 00:01:25,440 Luke Achterstraat,: mentioned in their inflation is still pretty stubborn in some 26 00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:28,600 Luke Achterstraat,: sectors in terms of supply chain. So the state of 27 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,760 Luke Achterstraat,: small business at the moment is they are really between 28 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:33,960 Luke Achterstraat,: a rock and a hard place, you know, trying to 29 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,320 Luke Achterstraat,: absorb those costs to the best of their ability, noting 30 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:39,720 Luke Achterstraat,: that there's only so much a lot of small businesses 31 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:42,679 Luke Achterstraat,: can pass those costs on to their consumers. You know. We know 32 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:44,880 Luke Achterstraat,: that there's only so much people will pay for a 33 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,760 Luke Achterstraat,: cup of coffee before they simply make one at home. 34 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,360 Luke Achterstraat,: We know there's only so much someone will pay for 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:54,400 Luke Achterstraat,: a stintl at a pub or a club rather than 36 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,080 Luke Achterstraat,: choosing to stay at home. So it's really that perfect 37 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,400 Luke Achterstraat,: storm of costs you've talked about, combined with that reduction 38 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:06,120 Luke Achterstraat,: in discretionary spending. So you're absolutely right for discretionary industries. 39 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:08,600 Luke Achterstraat,: You know, we had an interesting example the other day 40 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:13,040 Luke Achterstraat,: a Gelado store in Western Sydney, and the feedback from 41 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:14,919 Luke Achterstraat,: the owner was you know, even though he's got high 42 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:20,200 Luke Achterstraat,: levels of customer satisfaction, really good product, really strong brand. 43 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:22,640 Luke Achterstraat,: You know, people are just not going out for ice 44 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,120 Luke Achterstraat,: cream with their kids the way that they used to. 45 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,480 Luke Achterstraat,: That's just something they have had to cut out of 46 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,960 Luke Achterstraat,: the monthly budget to focus on, you know, school fees 47 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:34,760 Luke Achterstraat,: and energy bills and mortgage repayments. So the state of 48 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:37,280 Luke Achterstraat,: small business is highly challenging, and I think it's just 49 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,480 Luke Achterstraat,: worth saying when you've got two and a half million 50 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:43,520 Luke Achterstraat,: small businesses in Australia, they are the overwhelming majority of 51 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:45,960 Luke Achterstraat,: businesses in the economy, but they are quite different from 52 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,120 Luke Achterstraat,: large enterprise. So we're talking about mums and dads who 53 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:52,720 Luke Achterstraat,: have got the business mortgaged against the house. It's difficult 54 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:55,480 Luke Achterstraat,: for them to simply go back to their shareholders to 55 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,600 Luke Achterstraat,: refinance or to get more working capital. So very precarious 56 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:01,919 Luke Achterstraat,: situation at the moment, and I think the next six 57 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,560 Luke Achterstraat,: to twelve months are going to probably be even more 58 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,880 Luke Achterstraat,: challenging as a lot of those you know, the tail, 59 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:12,000 Luke Achterstraat,: A lot of those challenges come through the pipeline. 60 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:15,079 Sean Aylmer: Come to the policies of the politicians in a moment, 61 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,320 Sean Aylmer: but at the end of the day is the thing 62 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:23,320 Sean Aylmer: that's best for small business. A strong economy, I think 63 00:03:23,360 --> 00:03:27,360 Sean Aylmer: it is combined with the right regulatory settings. So I 64 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,359 Sean Aylmer: think you're absolutely right. I think a strong economy consumer 65 00:03:30,480 --> 00:03:33,880 Sean Aylmer: confidence that costs are doing business right. So there is 66 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:37,000 Sean Aylmer: that consumer sentiment that's really important. As we've talked about 67 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,000 Sean Aylmer: discretionary spending, getting that back up. Obviously, some more interest 68 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:44,760 Sean Aylmer: rate cuts we feel would be really impactful for small business. 69 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,560 Sean Aylmer: But until as an economy we really address this cost crisis, 70 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,360 Sean Aylmer: it's going to be extremely difficult for small businesses. Let's 71 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:54,960 Sean Aylmer: just zone in on one particular industry, you know, because 72 00:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,560 Sean Aylmer: there has been a lot of talk this election about housing. 73 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,080 Sean Aylmer: What's actually left out of that discuss in housing is 74 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,880 Sean Aylmer: that ninety eight percent of firms in building in construction SMB, 75 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:08,360 Sean Aylmer: they're small businesses. You know. 76 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,600 Luke Achterstraat,: There could be a carpenter who's become a builder who 77 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:14,760 Luke Achterstraat,: started his or her own business, and there are definitely 78 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,800 Luke Achterstraat,: a small business So we all sort of associate the 79 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,080 Luke Achterstraat,: large brands with construction, but the overwhelming majority of them 80 00:04:21,080 --> 00:04:24,920 Luke Achterstraat,: are small businesses. Now, with raw materials going up, labor 81 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:29,080 Luke Achterstraat,: going up, insurance going up, all of that costs somehow 82 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:31,799 Luke Achterstraat,: needs to be passed on and that's what you're seeing 83 00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:33,960 Luke Achterstraat,: in terms of a lot of really high insolvencies in 84 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,040 Luke Achterstraat,: the construction industry and a lot of those businesses being 85 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:39,840 Luke Achterstraat,: sort of, I suppose, again stuck between a rock and 86 00:04:39,839 --> 00:04:42,320 Luke Achterstraat,: a hard place, particularly if they've entered into fixed price 87 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:47,640 Luke Achterstraat,: contracts where their margins are effectively have become effectively negative margins. 88 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,960 Luke Achterstraat,: So we need those economic fundamentals to be strong, as 89 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:54,600 Luke Achterstraat,: you absolutely say, but I think there's often too much 90 00:04:54,640 --> 00:04:56,960 Luke Achterstraat,: focus on the demand side, which is important, and not 91 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,320 Luke Achterstraat,: enough on this supply side. So even access to Gill 92 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,520 Luke Achterstraat,: Shawn labor costs, you know, which is one of the 93 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:06,320 Luke Achterstraat,: reasons why Cosboa and other PEAT bodies have talked a 94 00:05:06,320 --> 00:05:09,400 Luke Achterstraat,: lot about industrial relations trying to address that cost of 95 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:12,200 Luke Achterstraat,: doing business. And you know, and one of many reasons 96 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:14,839 Luke Achterstraat,: that house prices are so high is that cost of 97 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:18,359 Luke Achterstraat,: construction just has not been dealt with. So, yeah, the 98 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,640 Luke Achterstraat,: economic fundamentals, but also the regulatory and the policy settings 99 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:26,320 Luke Achterstraat,: that a light touch that are easy to navigate can 100 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:29,000 Luke Achterstraat,: really give small businesses a fair crack at, you know, 101 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,239 Luke Achterstraat,: not just remaining in business, but actually growing their business 102 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:35,480 Luke Achterstraat,: and becoming an even more important part of the economy. 103 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:38,600 Sean Aylmer: The personal one. But good a mate of minds of 104 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:40,120 Sean Aylmer: Bill that he just can't get an overdraft at the 105 00:05:40,160 --> 00:05:44,000 Sean Aylmer: moment because the banks, the regulations which are actually OPRA 106 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:47,560 Sean Aylmer: related rather than the banks, means he can't get an 107 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,760 Sean Aylmer: ave draft. And it is it's kind of quite broad 108 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:53,919 Sean Aylmer: what you're talking about. The changes that are needed to 109 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:59,040 Sean Aylmer: help small business filter into finance as much as it 110 00:05:59,080 --> 00:05:59,920 Sean Aylmer: does the economy. 111 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:05,279 Luke Achterstraat,: For example, access to finance is a huge issue. On 112 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,440 Luke Achterstraat,: that example you site there with your builder. That does 113 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,800 Luke Achterstraat,: not surprise me at all. I think one of the 114 00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:13,599 Luke Achterstraat,: other areas where small businesses feel they could actually have 115 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,640 Luke Achterstraat,: their cash flow access to credit improved is actually through 116 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,560 Luke Achterstraat,: tax reform, Shawn. So a couple of different things in 117 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,240 Luke Achterstraat,: the lad up to the election. One is we're actually 118 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,720 Luke Achterstraat,: calling for a small business company tax cut. So at 119 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,880 Luke Achterstraat,: the moment we've got a sort of two fase system 120 00:06:28,880 --> 00:06:32,320 Luke Achterstraat,: in Australia where if you earn turnover of over fifty 121 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,920 Luke Achterstraat,: million dollars you pay the full thirty percent and if 122 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:38,240 Luke Achterstraat,: you're under fifty million dollars turnover you're paying twenty five percent. 123 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,320 Luke Achterstraat,: We feel that could be even more targeted towards the 124 00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:45,320 Luke Achterstraat,: SMB section of the economy and that we should reduce 125 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,440 Luke Achterstraat,: the tax ray from twenty five percent to twenty percent 126 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:52,640 Luke Achterstraat,: for firms with the turnover of up to twenty million dollars, 127 00:06:52,920 --> 00:06:56,560 Luke Achterstraat,: So that would capture the overwheling majority of incorporated small businesses. 128 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:59,719 Luke Achterstraat,: That would allow them to improve their retained earnings, improve 129 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:03,320 Luke Achterstraat,: their cash flow. Perhaps an example of your builder mate, 130 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:06,000 Luke Achterstraat,: you know, if he's keeping an extra five percent there 131 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:08,800 Luke Achterstraat,: on his margin, that's cash flow that he can put 132 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:13,040 Luke Achterstraat,: back into the business, demonstrate that positive cash flow back 133 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:16,280 Luke Achterstraat,: to his bangle, back to his financial institution. So you 134 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,880 Luke Achterstraat,: are one hundred percent right. A lot of these issues 135 00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,400 Luke Achterstraat,: are quite broad and cut across not just construction, but 136 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:25,000 Luke Achterstraat,: across various industries. And that's why we feel, you know, 137 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,760 Luke Achterstraat,: broad based tax reform could really provide a stronger foundation 138 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,360 Luke Achterstraat,: for a lot of our small businesses. I think it's 139 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:35,400 Luke Achterstraat,: also just worth reminding ourselves here. You know, we're talking 140 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:38,600 Luke Achterstraat,: about firms that don't necessarily have a head of HR, 141 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,960 Luke Achterstraat,: ahead of sales, ahead of marketing, a head of legal. Well, 142 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:43,600 Luke Achterstraat,: actually they do, they probably they do. 143 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:45,480 Sean Aylmer: It's the same person, that's right. 144 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,320 Luke Achterstraat,: That's right. It's the same as fear and greed. You know, 145 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:50,440 Luke Achterstraat,: you're the head of you and Michael are the head 146 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:51,480 Luke Achterstraat,: of everything, right, so. 147 00:07:52,200 --> 00:07:54,000 Sean Aylmer: We like to think so we're not that we like 148 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,320 Sean Aylmer: to think so loot yeah. 149 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:57,840 Luke Achterstraat,: Yeah, So you know, this is just the unique operating 150 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:01,000 Luke Achterstraat,: environment of small business. You and I have talked about 151 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,480 Luke Achterstraat,: this before, but it's where can we get policies that 152 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:08,200 Luke Achterstraat,: really meet these small businesses halfway? Spend a day in 153 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:10,640 Luke Achterstraat,: their shoes and understand what some of those constraints are. 154 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,760 Luke Achterstraat,: Whether it's finance, whether it's compliance costs, whether it's regulation, 155 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:18,320 Luke Achterstraat,: whether it's reporting. There's just a whole range of issues 156 00:08:18,360 --> 00:08:20,800 Luke Achterstraat,: that are really tiny, a bit of a leg rope 157 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:22,960 Luke Achterstraat,: on our small businesses at the moment. I'll just quickly 158 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,280 Luke Achterstraat,: leave this with you for this answer. Some of the 159 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:31,160 Luke Achterstraat,: research that's come out of CPA Australia is really damning 160 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:35,520 Luke Achterstraat,: about Australia's small business policy settings in the region. So 161 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:37,920 Luke Achterstraat,: they did a bit of a litmus test of how 162 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:42,040 Luke Achterstraat,: does Australia effectively rank as a place of doing business, 163 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:45,880 Luke Achterstraat,: but specifically small business in all of those various policy settings. 164 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:47,480 Luke Achterstraat,: How hard is it to start a business, how hard 165 00:08:47,520 --> 00:08:49,880 Luke Achterstraat,: is it to maintain a small business? And it actually 166 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:56,480 Luke Achterstraat,: found out of twelve comparable countries, we ranked second lowest. Well, 167 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:00,120 Luke Achterstraat,: so that you know, for a country like Australia, where 168 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:02,800 Luke Achterstraat,: we should be leading the world in terms of our ideas, 169 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,880 Luke Achterstraat,: our entrepreneurship, we were second worst, only just pipping New Zealand, 170 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,280 Luke Achterstraat,: which you know is not necessarily something to necessarily write 171 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:16,520 Luke Achterstraat,: home about unless it's a game of breakby Union. So 172 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,640 Luke Achterstraat,: I guess I'm just saying there is so much work 173 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:20,840 Luke Achterstraat,: we need to do as a country. We really want 174 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,520 Luke Achterstraat,: this election to really focus on a sector that can 175 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:28,400 Luke Achterstraat,: sometimes be taken for granted and is often hidden in 176 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:29,000 Luke Achterstraat,: full view. 177 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:31,720 Sean Aylmer: Okay, we'll come back and talk about that in a moment. 178 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:42,760 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Cosbala chief executive Luke ark Destrat. We 179 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,240 Sean Aylmer: left before the break talking or sort of edging into politics. 180 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:48,000 Sean Aylmer: What do you want to see We've got ten to 181 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:51,640 Sean Aylmer: eleven days till the federal poll. What do you want 182 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:56,000 Sean Aylmer: to see coming from both sides of politics around small business? 183 00:09:56,600 --> 00:09:59,000 Luke Achterstraat,: Look, Sean, I think the first thing is actually getting 184 00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,440 Luke Achterstraat,: some serious ri cognition of the importance of small business. 185 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:05,080 Luke Achterstraat,: You know, I have to say, you know, it is 186 00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,720 Luke Achterstraat,: very rare that I meet a politician or a regulator 187 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,520 Luke Achterstraat,: who doesn't like to say, oh yeah, small business is 188 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:13,040 Luke Achterstraat,: the lifeblood of the economy. Or small businesses the backbone 189 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:16,040 Luke Achterstraat,: of the economy. We hear these really great platitudes, but 190 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:19,360 Luke Achterstraat,: then we look at things like the government's federal budget, 191 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,720 Luke Achterstraat,: we look at things like the Intergenerational Report, We look 192 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,880 Luke Achterstraat,: at all of these bodies of work coming out of 193 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:30,240 Luke Achterstraat,: central agencies, and just so often small business is an afterthought. 194 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:33,679 Luke Achterstraat,: It's as if small business has been consulted at the 195 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:35,760 Luke Achterstraat,: last minute to sort of tick a bit of a box, 196 00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:37,560 Luke Achterstraat,: you know. And that's not just my view, that's the 197 00:10:37,640 --> 00:10:41,000 Luke Achterstraat,: view of you know, fifty odd small business organizations that 198 00:10:41,040 --> 00:10:44,840 Luke Achterstraat,: we represent at KOSBOB. So in terms of the major parties, 199 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:47,680 Luke Achterstraat,: I think we'd actually like to see a small business 200 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:52,640 Luke Achterstraat,: policy that really generates new ideas, but really actually anchors 201 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:56,480 Luke Achterstraat,: small business as that key driver of competition of innovation 202 00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,320 Luke Achterstraat,: in the economy. You know, if we keep sleep walking 203 00:10:59,320 --> 00:11:04,079 Luke Achterstraat,: towards becoming a corporatized Australia, that's going to mean reduced competition, 204 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,680 Luke Achterstraat,: which means higher prices and higher inflation. So the summary 205 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,400 Luke Achterstraat,: kind of asked that we've put to both parties is 206 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:14,840 Luke Achterstraat,: look at what we call the twin engines of reform, 207 00:11:15,120 --> 00:11:18,520 Luke Achterstraat,: which is tax and red tape. So, you know, my 208 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,760 Luke Achterstraat,: most fundamental way of thinking about this tax reform, How 209 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,720 Luke Achterstraat,: can we keep more income in the pockets of small 210 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:29,680 Luke Achterstraat,: business owners so that they can reinvest, build and employ. 211 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,440 Luke Achterstraat,: Red tape, How can we get more time back in 212 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,959 Luke Achterstraat,: the day or in the week of small business owners 213 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:39,480 Luke Achterstraat,: so they have more time to reinvest, employ and grow. 214 00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:41,800 Luke Achterstraat,: So tax and red tape are kind of the two 215 00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,640 Luke Achterstraat,: pillars that we see. It's time and money and getting 216 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:47,960 Luke Achterstraat,: that back in the pockets and back in the day. 217 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,760 Luke Achterstraat,: I mean, just a quick stat we came out of 218 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:55,400 Luke Achterstraat,: some research. We saw fifteen hours per week is now 219 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:57,920 Luke Achterstraat,: the average amount of time a small business owner is 220 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:03,120 Luke Achterstraat,: spending on compliance. So that's paperwork, that's bureaucracy. Now, don't 221 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,240 Luke Achterstraat,: get me wrong, there's a role for reporting, there's a 222 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,920 Luke Achterstraat,: role for regulation that is not in dispute here, But 223 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,040 Luke Achterstraat,: fifteen hours a week. You know, when we wonder why 224 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,560 Luke Achterstraat,: we have a productivity problem in Australia, it's because even 225 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:19,680 Luke Achterstraat,: entrepreneurial young entrepreneurial men and women spending what's that equivalent 226 00:12:19,720 --> 00:12:22,960 Luke Achterstraat,: of two full time days or two full days a 227 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,480 Luke Achterstraat,: week just trying to actually satisfy the government of various 228 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,360 Luke Achterstraat,: reporting and compliance costs. So we need to really address 229 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,120 Luke Achterstraat,: that head on. We need to not be afraid to 230 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,480 Luke Achterstraat,: go searching for red tape, and by that I mean 231 00:12:36,880 --> 00:12:39,240 Luke Achterstraat,: making the system easier to navigate as well. You know, 232 00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:42,120 Luke Achterstraat,: you shouldn't have to be a lawyer or a barrister 233 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:45,160 Luke Achterstraat,: to understand how to employ a casual worker. You know, 234 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,840 Luke Achterstraat,: you shouldn't have to be you shouldn't have to be 235 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:51,680 Luke Achterstraat,: a mathematician to understand what to pay someone in the 236 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:55,040 Luke Achterstraat,: retail industry. You know, the Retail Industry Award has almost 237 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:59,080 Luke Achterstraat,: one thousand, nine hundred and eighty six different rates of pay, 238 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:02,240 Luke Achterstraat,: so there is so many concrete examples, so we need 239 00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:03,880 Luke Achterstraat,: to address that. And as I said, we need to 240 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:06,760 Luke Achterstraat,: get the tax settings right, things like the instant asset 241 00:13:06,840 --> 00:13:10,320 Luke Achterstraat,: right off, make that permanent, give small business a certainty. 242 00:13:10,400 --> 00:13:13,320 Luke Achterstraat,: But as I've mentioned, we do feel quite strongly and 243 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,200 Luke Achterstraat,: we will have some modeling on this coming out quite soon, 244 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,960 Luke Achterstraat,: so please stay tuned for that. But the impact some 245 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,160 Luke Achterstraat,: tax relief at a corporate level would have for small 246 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:24,280 Luke Achterstraat,: businesses could really make a big impact. So there's a 247 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:26,440 Luke Achterstraat,: bit of a wish list there in the market, and 248 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:29,280 Luke Achterstraat,: we're really hoping to see a little bit more engagement 249 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:32,199 Luke Achterstraat,: with that from the major parties and from the independence 250 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:32,600 Luke Achterstraat,: as well. 251 00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:34,880 Sean Aylmer: Luke, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 252 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:36,240 Luke Achterstraat,: Boys a pleasure. Sewan, thank you. 253 00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:40,360 Sean Aylmer: That was Luke Arktastrat, chief executive of Cosboa. This is 254 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:42,840 Sean Aylmer: the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join us every morning 255 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,760 Sean Aylmer: for the full episode of Fear and Greed Business news 256 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:48,640 Sean Aylmer: for people who make their own decisions. I'm Chanelman. Join 257 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:50,200 Sean Aylmer: your day.