WEBVTT - Conversations with Cornesy - Blanche d’Alpuget 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:04.120 Everyone, Welcome to conversations. I have a special guest today. 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:08.760 Blanche del Puget is my guest author, writer, wife of 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:13.280 the late Prime Minister Bob Hawk. She has a new 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:15.040 book out, a new novel. Now it's a little bit 0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.640 different because it's fiction. It's murder mystery, and it's all 0:00:19.680 --> 0:00:22.560 sort of all sorts of sex in it and stuff 0:00:22.640 --> 0:00:25.840 like that. But Blanche is more renowned as a writer 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:30.120 of serious biographies and author of serious biographies and historical fiction. 0:00:30.560 --> 0:00:32.599 Blanche del Puget, welcome to the program. 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:34.200 Thank you very much. Fancy. 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:36.800 I love that name, del Puchet. It is the way 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:39.199 it rolls off the tongue. Can you tell us the 0:00:39.560 --> 0:00:40.520 origin of it? Please? 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:45.840 Sure it's from Bordeaux in France. It's typical Bordeaux name 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:51.040 that get ending. And with my great grandfather who left 0:00:51.080 --> 0:00:53.720 Bordeaux at the time of I think it was called 0:00:53.720 --> 0:00:59.920 the phlox of whatever it was that destroyed the French venue. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:04.200 It's the economy of Bordeaux. And he came out to 0:01:04.280 --> 0:01:06.360 the South Pacific game to Australia. 0:01:07.240 --> 0:01:09.160 There was so much to talk about. But I mean 0:01:09.240 --> 0:01:11.760 treat I wish I knew your father. He sounds like 0:01:11.840 --> 0:01:16.000 a really much so sort of a guy. Can you 0:01:16.520 --> 0:01:17.720 tell us a bit more about him? 0:01:18.319 --> 0:01:21.560 Yeah, he was very much Oh he was. He was 0:01:21.680 --> 0:01:26.319 love sailing, was bluebody, yachtsman. He was a champion boxer, 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:31.120 champion wrestler, champion water polo player. The guy who beat 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:36.119 him for the Australian title in boxing went to the 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:41.520 Olympics and won the gold medal, according to family legend history. 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:42.640 I've never looked that up. 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:44.399 And the Lifesaver as well. 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:50.240 I mean lifesaver sure, sure, and in a champion team. 0:01:50.600 --> 0:01:53.520 So tell us about tell us about you, your child. 0:01:53.640 --> 0:01:55.440 Is it true that your dad wanted you to be 0:01:55.720 --> 0:01:57.800 was expecting you to be a boy, or wanted you 0:01:57.840 --> 0:01:58.080 to be. 0:01:58.200 --> 0:02:02.840 My mum really wanted me to boy. My dad was 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.360 absolutely love me as a girl. But I grew up 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:10.840 as a daddy's girl, I think because of that. And 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:15.640 he did teach me all sort of some things like 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:21.160 boxing and shoesing, and of course how to catch fish 0:02:21.680 --> 0:02:27.440 and how to kill an octopus. That's pretty dairy. 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:32.119 If you're such a feminine lady, how did boxing fit 0:02:32.200 --> 0:02:34.840 into it? Did you do you ever have to use it? 0:02:36.000 --> 0:02:40.520 No? I didn't quite Seriously, it's very good for a woman, 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:44.760 especially as a small woman as I am, to know 0:02:44.840 --> 0:02:49.200 something about self defense and armed combat. It's very good. 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:52.560 I did have cause to use that later. 0:02:52.320 --> 0:02:55.880 In life against two a. 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:03.200 Very large Italian male who was bent on doing something 0:03:03.320 --> 0:03:04.000 dreadful to me. 0:03:05.919 --> 0:03:08.280 Can you expand on that? That's intriguing? 0:03:09.040 --> 0:03:12.520 Yeah. Sure. He was the person of the ship on 0:03:12.560 --> 0:03:14.679 which I was sailing to England. I was twenty one, 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:18.280 and he invited me to a party in his apartment 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:20.720 whatever you call it on a ship cabin, I guess, 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:23.960 And of course the person is a second in command 0:03:24.000 --> 0:03:27.480 on a ship after the captain. And I arrived at 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.520 the party and I looked around as nobody else there. 0:03:30.600 --> 0:03:33.680 It was just him and me, and he was a 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:37.280 big bloke. I was five for three. I can't do 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.720 that in the new money. He was about six foot 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.360 two and big. And he grabbed me and kissed me, 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.160 and I did. I remembered what I'd been taught. I 0:03:48.240 --> 0:03:52.160 grabbed him by the years really hard and jammed my 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:55.920 thumbs in his eyes, and he gave a yell of 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.440 surprise and horror. Let go. I went in my life, 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.480 and he wore sunglasses for wite Some. 0:04:03.560 --> 0:04:06.880 Days feel satisfying. 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.760 Yeah, it was very satisfying. Yeah. Well, my father taught 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.880 me some other things to do in that in nasty circumstances, 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.000 but I didn't ever have to employ them. 0:04:17.800 --> 0:04:19.920 So what ambition did you have growing up? Your father 0:04:20.360 --> 0:04:24.640 high achiever, charismatic guy, he's an editor of a newspaper. 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:26.520 What ambition did you have? 0:04:27.400 --> 0:04:30.560 My only ambition was to travel and have fun. I 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.240 was don't terribly serious. 0:04:32.760 --> 0:04:33.480 Is that all? 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:37.479 Yeah? Really, I was mad keen on traveling and did 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:42.159 a lot. I lived basically, I lived outside of out 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.440 of Australia from the edge of twenty one to thirty, 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:50.320 in various countries, a lot of the time, spending Indonesia 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:50.920 and Malaysia. 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.039 I read something that I've found quite shocking, and I 0:04:55.040 --> 0:04:57.000 don't know. I'd have to run it past you to 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.120 see if it was actually you said you had your 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:01.239 first affair when you were twelve. 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.880 It wasn't an affair. I was groomed. 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:09.279 He was a district court judge who was a neighbor 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:14.039 and a friend of the family, and he started by 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:15.640 walking me. 0:05:15.720 --> 0:05:19.960 Home from the school bus stop every day and it 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:24.799 sort of went on from there. He was a nut. 0:05:25.560 --> 0:05:28.320 I mean, I've I realized that in retrospect. At the time, 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:31.840 I thought he was wonderful. He was fifty four and 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:32.479 you're twelve. 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:36.080 Yes, when you reflect back on that, I mean a 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:38.000 lot of young ladies would be scarred by that. 0:05:38.680 --> 0:05:43.760 Well, I wasn't, partly because I had a father as 0:05:43.800 --> 0:05:48.479 a backup. I knew that if anything went wrong, I 0:05:48.480 --> 0:05:50.719 could go to my father, and I would get into 0:05:50.800 --> 0:05:55.200 terrible trouble myself, but he would walk down the street 0:05:55.200 --> 0:05:58.640 and he would pull that man limb from limb, and 0:05:58.920 --> 0:06:03.040 the man knew my father, and he knew that. He 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:05.200 realized that too, that he had to be very careful. 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.920 We spoken about your father, tell us about your mother. 0:06:09.279 --> 0:06:11.880 Your mother's influence on you. 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:16.120 She was a sky blue soul, or I can say 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:20.640 she was a really lovely woman, terrific sportswoman. Used to 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.640 she done gymnastics, used to go sailing all the time. 0:06:25.360 --> 0:06:27.880 She was just a wonderful, loving mother. And she had 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.560 a terrific sense of humor, very very funny, which was 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:35.120 important with my dad, who could be extremely trying. 0:06:35.600 --> 0:06:40.240 What do you mean by that trying of that of 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:41.960 the day. Perhaps it was. 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:48.040 The male of the day, honestly, and he was he 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.680 fell when, when I was eight, he fell in love 0:06:52.720 --> 0:06:56.920 with somebody else, which another a woman journalist. 0:06:58.080 --> 0:07:03.600 Years later he married, but luckily, I regarded it as 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:08.279 luckily they stayed together because of the child, because of me, 0:07:09.160 --> 0:07:12.400 and as a consequence, I had a much more interesting 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:17.560 adolescence than I would have had I been living alone 0:07:17.560 --> 0:07:20.640 with my mother. But it was a very great strain 0:07:20.720 --> 0:07:25.200 on both of them, but I think particularly on her 0:07:25.240 --> 0:07:26.640 because he was quite cruel to her. 0:07:28.560 --> 0:07:30.640 It was a sign of the times that I think 0:07:31.280 --> 0:07:35.160 we'ther in a male dominated era. Yeah, how did that 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:37.720 shape your opinions in your career? 0:07:37.840 --> 0:07:42.360 Perhaps It's very hard for me to know that, because 0:07:43.520 --> 0:07:48.920 except to know that I wouldn't accept being put down, 0:07:49.760 --> 0:07:53.240 my father had always brought me up to never to 0:07:53.360 --> 0:07:57.400 allow myself to be put down, and he himself, I've 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.640 got it. I have to say. It was a terrible bully, 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:04.360 So it had one very good effect. I grew up 0:08:04.400 --> 0:08:09.480 completely unafraid of men, and I think because of that, 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:15.160 I was completely unafraid of Bob Hawk when I met him, 0:08:15.520 --> 0:08:17.280 not that I knew who the hell he was. I 0:08:17.280 --> 0:08:22.640 thought he was somebody called Robin Robin Hawk, Robin Hog, 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.360 whom I met in Chakata. But a lot of women 0:08:26.400 --> 0:08:28.760 were afraid of Bob because he was very, very aggressive. 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.880 But I'd grown up with a super aggressive male and 0:08:33.679 --> 0:08:36.880 so didn't find Bob in any way intimidating. 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:41.160 Butd you pursue your career as a journalist initially? Didn't you? 0:08:41.679 --> 0:08:44.960 Just initially? That's because I had a huge fight with 0:08:45.000 --> 0:08:47.240 my father and ran away from home when I was seventeen. 0:08:47.720 --> 0:08:50.640 I was meant to be studying. I was studying science 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.439 at Sydney University. So then I had to get a 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:59.280 chop because she couldn't do science and work. So he 0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:02.280 did help me get a job as at a cadet 0:09:02.440 --> 0:09:06.600 on the rival newspaper. I pursued that only for a 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:11.880 very brief period. I think I was eighteen when I started. Seventeen, 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:18.520 and then I went to London twenty one and worked 0:09:18.520 --> 0:09:21.280 in their office in London, and then came back and 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:24.599 then that was the end of journalism really, And he 0:09:24.679 --> 0:09:25.200 got married. 0:09:26.000 --> 0:09:28.760 I got married, but well we used to in those days. 0:09:29.760 --> 0:09:36.080 But also for that same reason that women then did 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:42.000 need a male protector. We really did, and having either 0:09:42.040 --> 0:09:46.640 a steady boyfriend or a husband was pretty important. 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.240 Blanche Delpiget is my guest, Folks. Her new book is 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.520 called The Bunny Club. We'll talk about it. We'll get 0:09:52.559 --> 0:09:56.000 into it in detail, but obviously Blant's life is so 0:09:56.040 --> 0:09:58.760 interesting we have to explore that before we talk about 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:02.360 her new novel. Shortly, folks, my guest on conversations is 0:10:02.360 --> 0:10:04.920 Blount del puge. She has a new book out called 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:08.640 The Bunny Club. It's a murder mystery. I've read the 0:10:09.120 --> 0:10:13.680 compelling novel of mystery, passion, and revenge. I can see 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:17.040 your life was mysterious and it was passionate. Was it 0:10:17.080 --> 0:10:19.000 any elements of revenge in your life? 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.920 Not that I'm aware of, No. Look. It centers on 0:10:24.760 --> 0:10:30.359 a television a morning television diva, a very highly paid 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:36.040 morning television hostess who is the station, wants to get 0:10:36.120 --> 0:10:40.040 rid of it because she's Her pay rate is what 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.160 set when the television stations were earning a heap of 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.320 money and now they're not. And also she's getting on. 0:10:47.800 --> 0:10:51.000 She pretends to be fifteen years younger than she actually 0:10:51.120 --> 0:10:56.040 is thanks to a lot of cosmetics, and she goes 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.839 off down to Barrel, to her mansion in Barrel and 0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:04.200 for a romantic weekend. What she thinks of as a 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:08.320 romantic weekend with her lover, who is actually a males 0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:11.679 court whom she pays very well, but she still thinks 0:11:11.679 --> 0:11:15.079 of him as her lover. Next thing, we know, she's dead. 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:21.160 Whether she's dead from a sex game gone wrong or 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:25.400 has been murdered takes quite some sorting out. That's what 0:11:25.480 --> 0:11:30.720 the superficial story is about. There's a second underlying theme 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:33.440 of story there, which I can tell you if you're 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:34.680 a very nice man. 0:11:34.920 --> 0:11:37.920 Well, I'll try to be a nice man. But a 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:41.520 couple of questions there immediately in that description. The sex 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:45.199 game is a Japanese sex game. Firstly, I want to 0:11:45.240 --> 0:11:48.640 know how you discovered this Japanese sex game which involves 0:11:48.679 --> 0:11:50.560 cables and pulleys and the like. 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:56.920 Well, it's called shibari. It's burning around in Japan since 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:00.280 the seventeenth century, and it was used for tying up pess. 0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:03.440 But you know, the Japanese like to turn everything into 0:12:03.440 --> 0:12:06.080 a work of art, so they turned this into a 0:12:06.120 --> 0:12:09.840 work of art, and then it became used, as so 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:15.400 many things do, for sex. It's still used for tying 0:12:15.480 --> 0:12:19.720 up people on trees. I think when you go to Japan, 0:12:19.800 --> 0:12:22.520 all the trees and to retied up. Yeah, how I 0:12:22.600 --> 0:12:24.960 learned about it? Well, I think I've known about it 0:12:25.000 --> 0:12:29.320 for a while. But I interviewed all together four but 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:36.480 mainly two male escorts, and one of them is a 0:12:36.520 --> 0:12:38.080 shabari master. 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:41.520 Really, there's such a thing. It's such a thing as 0:12:41.520 --> 0:12:42.520 a master. 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.480 He's a bit modest, and he would say he's just 0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:51.040 a he's just a practitioner, but he he, he really 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.920 knows a tremendous amount about it, and of course it is. 0:12:54.200 --> 0:13:00.439 It can be very very dangerous. You can accidentally murder 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:03.920 somebody or kill somebody with it. So he showed me 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:08.319 a lot of videos that he'd made of himself tying 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:08.880 up people. 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:17.360 There's so many questions. So you've you hired a mail escort, 0:13:18.080 --> 0:13:21.040 You paid him? I paid him. 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:24.240 Look, they've only got I believe the worker should be 0:13:24.280 --> 0:13:28.760 paid and so and all they've got to sell is 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:34.120 their time, and they have a sliding scale obviously what 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.680 their time costs. But for an interview, it was just 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:41.000 one hundred and twenty five dollars an hour, or more 0:13:41.320 --> 0:13:43.480 elaborate things, that's considerably more. 0:13:43.880 --> 0:13:50.440 Were you attempted to explore those more elaborate things. Yeah, 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:53.439 I've seen the description of the male escort. You said 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.360 he looked more like a diplomat. Can you describe him? 0:13:56.720 --> 0:14:01.360 Yes, very tall, quite reserved and sharp. An introvert, I 0:14:01.400 --> 0:14:06.200 think so. He's all his friendships were with his female clients. 0:14:06.520 --> 0:14:11.839 He likes women a lot, obviously, and from a very 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.280 good family. Went to the same school as well, King 0:14:15.400 --> 0:14:18.920 Charles as he now is in Victoria. Not a scrubber. 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.360 Oh, the mind boggles. 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:31.000 The other guy is extrovert, much smaller, mad keen on 0:14:31.200 --> 0:14:36.120 Art say, a real salesman, and he doesn't know anything 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:37.040 about Shabari though. 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:40.720 Well, I look, that's an outline of the book, and 0:14:41.240 --> 0:14:44.280 people need to buy the book. It's called the Bunny Club. 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:47.640 Now let's talk a little bit more about about you. 0:14:47.640 --> 0:14:50.240 You marrit An Anthony Pratt, and you go to you 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:53.520 live in Jakarta. Yes, did you embrace that? 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:57.760 For the first two weeks I wasn't sure where Indonesia 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:02.440 was at that age. He said to me. My husband said, 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:06.760 go north and turn left, and I'll never forget the 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:12.200 day we flew into Jakarta together. As the plane came 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:17.680 towards the landing the airport, the landing field, a little 0:15:17.720 --> 0:15:21.520 flock of brown goats were chopping trotting across in front 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:24.320 of us, and there was nothing to say except coconut 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.240 trees around it. You couldn't see a damn thing. 0:15:28.120 --> 0:15:30.880 What was your life like as the wife of a diplomat? 0:15:31.160 --> 0:15:33.440 Oh no, that's when he was a student. That's when 0:15:33.440 --> 0:15:36.880 we first went. He was a student studying for his 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:38.480 masters in linguistics. 0:15:38.720 --> 0:15:42.920 A student is a life of poverty, basically. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:44.840 Well it is, except that I got a job in 0:15:44.880 --> 0:15:47.560 the working in the embassy in what was called the 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:52.600 News and Information Buro, which was actually our propaganda department, 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:56.400 and I was paid initially. It was funny. I've paid 0:15:56.440 --> 0:16:00.480 initially in rupia, which is worth nothing, and bags of 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:05.400 rice that didn't last very long. They transferred me onto 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:07.960 real money. But back in those days it was five 0:16:08.040 --> 0:16:13.680 hundred percent inflation, so our embassy and every other embassy 0:16:13.880 --> 0:16:17.000 dealt in the black market and black market dollars. 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:20.440 It seems to me as I read stories about your 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.680 life that you really enjoyed living in Chicago, Individeres, I 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:25.680 loved it. 0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:30.600 It's the Indonesians are terrific people. Number one, wonderful sense 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:36.840 of humor, very rich culture, and it's just a back 0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:41.240 then it was a very fun place. It was already 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.240 terribly overcrowded. The city had been built by the Dutch 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:50.240 for I think five hundred thousand, and it was already 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:53.240 five millions, so it was terribly overcrowded, but nothing like 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:53.880 it is now. 0:16:54.160 --> 0:16:56.240 I'm not sure they were great people when they invaded 0:16:56.440 --> 0:16:59.080 New Guinea. How do they defend that? 0:16:59.200 --> 0:17:03.840 Well, that was the army who did that. Armies often 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.760 very nice to the people there in Fading whoever, whatever 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:13.080 there the civilians are like the military are different ours? 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:14.080 Is it no different? 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:17.680 You didn't like it so much when you came back 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:19.200 to Camber though. 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.240 Oh after the excitement of Jakarta, where you didn't know 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:26.160 one day from the next, tip for be electricity, if 0:17:26.200 --> 0:17:30.640 the if the surage would be working. You know. It 0:17:30.680 --> 0:17:36.320 was the telephones I don't think worked at all. We 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:41.760 all took messages by hand. Well, you see, I went 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.960 there twice. So I went there first with Chiny as 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:49.639 a student, and then he came back and joined foreign affairs, 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:53.919 and then we went back and lived in the and 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:55.399 he was working in the embassy. 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.360 And you met Bob Hook there in nineteen seventy. 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.200 Yes, when for the first I was an embassy wife 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.679 by that stage, and one of the duties of an 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:09.920 embassy wave was to take around visiting Australians, whom we 0:18:10.119 --> 0:18:16.640 used to refer to as visiting fireman. And the thing 0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.080 that impressed me about him was he did He was 0:18:20.119 --> 0:18:22.680 the only one of all of god knows how many 0:18:22.760 --> 0:18:25.320 I took around who didn't want to go and look 0:18:25.400 --> 0:18:29.160 at the slums. Nearly everybody wanted to see the slums 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:34.520 in Jakarta, which I thought was creepy, and Bob had 0:18:34.640 --> 0:18:38.119 no desire to as a word, perv on the on 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:39.879 the poverty of the people. 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:42.760 Why do you think they would want to visit the slums? Though? 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:47.640 Oh it made me feel good, really well, it gave 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:52.280 them a sense of the exoticness of poverty, and it 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:59.000 was poverty was exotic for people who had had, I guess, 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:03.480 no contact with our original people back then, back in 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:04.240 the sixties. 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:06.600 When you first met him, was there chemistry? 0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:10.160 No? Not on well, apparently there was on his part. 0:19:12.720 --> 0:19:15.879 I heard a story. Now you can tell you can 0:19:15.920 --> 0:19:19.080 correct me or tell me that it's inappropriate. But when 0:19:19.080 --> 0:19:21.360 he first met you, did he proposition you in an 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:22.760 inappropriate manner? 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:26.040 Not when he first met me that was when he 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.359 second met me, or I mean when he met me 0:19:29.400 --> 0:19:30.240 for the second time in. 0:19:30.280 --> 0:19:33.000 Jakarta, and that was nineteen seventy six. 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:37.240 No, No, that were nineteen seventy one, the following year. 0:19:37.560 --> 0:19:40.920 When a male proposition is an attractive lady like yourself, 0:19:41.680 --> 0:19:47.560 surely that's an inappropriate manner. Is that not a turn off? Yeah? 0:19:47.880 --> 0:19:52.160 I ignored it. I mean he did it in public 0:19:52.200 --> 0:19:54.000 in front of a whole lot of people, and we 0:19:54.080 --> 0:19:57.640 all just they we're all diplomats, we all just pretended 0:19:57.680 --> 0:20:00.680 it hadn't happened. And somebody said, oh, are that bunt 0:20:00.840 --> 0:20:05.400 is just going to London, and the conversation went on. 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:06.760 It was something like that. 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:11.840 So you decide to pursue, You decide to you start 0:20:11.880 --> 0:20:15.840 to write, and your first book is called Mediator, a 0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:19.199 Biography of Sir Richard Kirby. Now that's not what is 0:20:19.200 --> 0:20:20.560 that what you said out to write? 0:20:21.640 --> 0:20:27.840 Yes? Absolutely, And it was because of Kirby's contact with Indonesia, 0:20:28.359 --> 0:20:32.280 and he was head of something that doesn't exist anymore, 0:20:32.320 --> 0:20:38.720 the Conciliation and Arbitration Commission, which oversaw wages for workers. 0:20:39.640 --> 0:20:44.040 And so I was interested in him because of Indonesia, 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:48.320 because he had so much to do with the first President, Sakano, 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:53.000 who was a real bogeyman in a street Australia. But 0:20:53.560 --> 0:20:56.199 he also to write the book, I had to study 0:20:56.200 --> 0:21:00.639 the trade unions a lot, and that's when I became 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:02.719 really interested in the trade union movement. 0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.200 Was your first interest, was it Albert Monk the first. 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:09.360 Albert Buns was the first president, Bob was the second. 0:21:09.560 --> 0:21:12.080 Yes, But you couldn't get access to Albert Monks. 0:21:12.320 --> 0:21:14.719 Yes. So I wanted to do as a second biography 0:21:15.040 --> 0:21:19.640 Albert Monk's biography because all his papers he kept an 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:24.560 enormous trove of papers in a special shorthand he'd developed 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:29.560 in the State Library of Victoria. But his wife wouldn't 0:21:29.600 --> 0:21:33.959 give me permission to have access to them. And ages 0:21:34.040 --> 0:21:37.040 later I discovered it was because she was his second 0:21:37.119 --> 0:21:40.119 wife and she and people didn't know, and she didn't 0:21:40.119 --> 0:21:42.800 want anybody finding out she was his second wife. I mean, 0:21:43.119 --> 0:21:47.040 that's how stitched up we were back in those days. 0:21:47.280 --> 0:21:48.919 So I thought, oh, well, if I can't do the 0:21:48.960 --> 0:21:51.560 second one, because I was still mad on about the 0:21:52.040 --> 0:21:55.600 importance as it was then of the trade union movement, 0:21:56.320 --> 0:22:01.720 I'll try the current president. I met Bob Hawk. 0:22:02.560 --> 0:22:04.680 We need to take a break, because it gets really 0:22:04.680 --> 0:22:08.000 interesting after that. Blanch dal Pouget is my guest, folks. 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.240 Her new book is called The Bunny Club. It's fiction. 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:14.719 We're going to talk about the biographies that she has 0:22:14.840 --> 0:22:18.639 subsequently written or written previously. Back after the break, folks, 0:22:18.800 --> 0:22:21.199 welcome back to conversations, everybody, if you'd just tuned in, 0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:23.600 and it's a great chat. That's even greater when the 0:22:23.640 --> 0:22:27.119 microphone's turned off. I guess it is Blanche del Puge. 0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:30.560 She's an eminent author, there's no doubt about that. Some 0:22:30.600 --> 0:22:34.320 of the great books that she's written. Most significant, I 0:22:34.320 --> 0:22:37.880 think is Robert J. Hawk, a biography that's probably famous. 0:22:38.359 --> 0:22:43.600 And we're talking Blanche about meeting Bob in Jakarta, in Indonesia, 0:22:43.640 --> 0:22:46.480 and again a year later you meet him again in 0:22:46.560 --> 0:22:51.200 nineteen seventy six. Now can I quote? I'm quoting your words? 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:54.760 So the business just not a prurient interest. I'm quoting 0:22:54.760 --> 0:22:55.280 your words. 0:22:55.320 --> 0:22:58.520 Okay, it could still be a prurian interest. 0:23:00.520 --> 0:23:04.679 Well, yes, I confess it is. With mutual wordless consent. 0:23:04.800 --> 0:23:07.760 It was agreed we would become lovers as soon as possible, 0:23:08.040 --> 0:23:11.000 which happened to be in a different city. The following night. Now, 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:14.280 why are you so brazen about that? 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:16.080 That's not brazen, that's honesty. 0:23:16.680 --> 0:23:17.960 Well, it's brazen honesty. 0:23:19.080 --> 0:23:22.840 I was just telling the truth. 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:25.080 But you knew the man was a womanizer. 0:23:26.520 --> 0:23:33.120 What's that got to do with it? You're very twey 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:33.919 and squeamish. 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:37.399 I like, well, maybe I am, Because then I go 0:23:37.480 --> 0:23:40.639 on it don't go slowly dreadfully. I came to realize 0:23:40.680 --> 0:23:43.240 he was having affairs with women all over the country, 0:23:43.640 --> 0:23:47.840 that his love life was kind of free willing, decentralized harem, 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:51.600 with four or five favorites and a shoe saile queue 0:23:51.920 --> 0:23:55.360 of one night stands. Now, surely you would have tried 0:23:55.400 --> 0:23:56.320 to pull him into line. 0:23:56.960 --> 0:24:03.520 I wasn't so foolish. I mean, he was a larger 0:24:03.560 --> 0:24:08.480 than life guy, as you would know. He wasn't somebody 0:24:09.359 --> 0:24:13.840 that could be pulled into line by a woman who 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:19.320 was fourteen years younger than he and had was just 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:24.240 one of the cure of women. He had taken a 0:24:24.280 --> 0:24:27.639 fancy too. Of course, later when we were married, that 0:24:27.720 --> 0:24:30.639 was quite different. But by then he was madly in 0:24:30.680 --> 0:24:33.359 love and he was truly truly committed to me. 0:24:34.080 --> 0:24:37.760 But going back to those days, you were a strong beautiful, 0:24:37.760 --> 0:24:40.840 attractive woman. Would you know you're not going to tolerate 0:24:41.880 --> 0:24:43.760 your lover having multiple affairs? 0:24:44.200 --> 0:24:48.000 Why did you what's to say he was my own lover? 0:24:50.320 --> 0:24:56.119 Well, here we go, Come on, I don't know how 0:24:56.160 --> 0:24:56.760 to answer that. 0:24:57.280 --> 0:24:59.040