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Speaker 1: I get a team.

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Speaker 2: Tiffany Cook, Bill Sullian Kraig, Anthony Harp reporting in for

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Speaker 2: duty just before Christmas. It is the twenty third of

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Speaker 2: the twelfth, the year of our Lord Annodominie, as my father,

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Speaker 2: my very Catholic father would say, in the United States

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Speaker 2: as we speak, I suspect it's the twenty second of

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Speaker 2: the twelfth in the PM AM. I correct, doctor Bill,

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Speaker 2: you are correct. Well, we are.

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Speaker 1: In the future for you, and let me tell you

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Speaker 1: that so far it's okay.

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Speaker 3: That's good to hear.

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Speaker 4: I was very concerned about the future, especially you know,

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Speaker 4: just twenty four hours ahead.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well yeah, I mean, look, we're here and it

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Speaker 2: seems to be okay, although things do seem to be

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Speaker 2: quite fragile in the States, with UFOs and things in

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Speaker 2: the inexplicable things in the sky. Did you take any

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Speaker 2: interest in that? That's got quite a bit of my

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Speaker 2: ledge over here in boring little Australia.

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 4: Well, weird things are always happening in New Jersey, so

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Speaker 4: this didn't surprise me at all.

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Speaker 2: Shout out to our four listeners in New Jersey. It's

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Speaker 2: now down to three. We just lost twenty five percent

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Speaker 2: what not that we not that we talk about this,

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Speaker 2: but UFOs I mean, which doesn't necessarily I mean UFOs exist.

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Speaker 2: It just means there's something in the sky. We don't

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Speaker 2: know what it is, right, but what are the chances

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Speaker 2: is that there is? And I know this is not

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Speaker 2: your field, but you know, just your hunch, is there

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Speaker 2: ex extraterrestrial intelligence outside of us?

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Speaker 3: Hmm, yeah, that's a good question.

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Speaker 4: I'm not so sure you're being a little generous and

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Speaker 4: calling our species intelligent.

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Speaker 1: That's true.

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Speaker 4: I think I get your point. I think I get

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Speaker 4: your point. And you know, I've done a lot of

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Speaker 4: reading on the subject. I love Carl Sagan's work as

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Speaker 4: I was growing up. It was one of my inspiration inspirations,

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Speaker 4: if you will, to go into a career of science.

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Speaker 4: And he's always amazed me with his capacity to, you know,

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Speaker 4: express just how large the universe is. You know, billions

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Speaker 4: and billions of stars, galaxies. It's just extraordinarily, incomprehensibly large.

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Speaker 4: So I had a professor back in my college days

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Speaker 4: who was teaching physics and some cosmology stuff, and he

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Speaker 4: just said, it would be beyond comprehension that there's not

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Speaker 4: something else out there. There are just too many possibility,

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Speaker 4: too many other worlds. It probably wouldn't look anything like us,

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Speaker 4: but there must be some other form of intelligence.

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Speaker 3: Out there, I think he was.

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Speaker 4: He was quick to add that we are too boring

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Speaker 4: and primitive for any extraterrestrial species to have any interest

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Speaker 4: in whatsoever so far. So that's probably why we are

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Speaker 4: left with just speculating about UFO visitation. You know, there's

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Speaker 4: there's certainly no hard evidence that we've ever been visited before.

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Speaker 4: And you notice that all those sightings started, you know,

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Speaker 4: around the time we were starting to go to the

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Speaker 4: Moon and things like that, so that it tracks with

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Speaker 4: where our intelligence has been. You know, if you go

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Speaker 4: look at ancient cave paintings, you see pictures of animals

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Speaker 4: and stick figures. You don't see UFOs in the sky.

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Speaker 2: M hmm.

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Speaker 1: That's interesting. That is interesting.

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Speaker 2: It's like, isn't it funny how we look at whatever

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Speaker 2: it is We look at through them without trying to

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Speaker 2: sound too philosophical or you know, weird, but we look

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Speaker 2: through through the window of our understanding and like, what's

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Speaker 2: our what's my perception of UFOs?

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Speaker 1: Well, my favorite Martian kicked it off.

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Speaker 2: You know, and all of that, you know, all of

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Speaker 2: those kind of and mark from Orc And you know,

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Speaker 2: it's funny, like we have this idea that somebody from

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Speaker 2: or somebody something from somewhere else will be vaguely familiar

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Speaker 2: to us but a little bit weird of shape or

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Speaker 2: I mean, who knows, maybe there's intelligence that isn't even

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Speaker 2: doesn't have a physical.

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Speaker 1: Body in the way that we think of it.

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Speaker 2: You know, it's like we think it's got to be

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Speaker 2: a version of us, but without a nose and maybe

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Speaker 2: three eyes, and maybe only four foot tall and probably

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Speaker 2: gray and definitely something shaped like you know, it's like

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Speaker 2: we you know, it's yeah, you're trying to understand something.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, if you watch Star Trek or Star Wars, of

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Speaker 4: course they're all hominids and they know English quite well,

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Speaker 4: which is pretty surprising even our metaphors and stories. So

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Speaker 4: we have a little bit of a pulsity of imagination

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Speaker 4: when it comes to what extraterrestrial life may be. But

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Speaker 4: as as you and I have discussed before, Craig, there

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Speaker 4: are so many fascinating creatures that we have yet to

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Speaker 4: characterize very well on our own planet. I mean, like

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Speaker 4: the ocean depths are an extraterrestrial world of sorts in

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Speaker 4: that where they're so little explored and there's so many

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Speaker 4: bizarre creatures down there, same thing under a microscope. You know,

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Speaker 4: we haven't cataloged anywhere near the number of microscopic creatures

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Speaker 4: that are on this planet, and when you look down

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Speaker 4: in great detail, they're extraordinarily interesting and have features that

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Speaker 4: we would never imagine because we don't live in those environments,

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Speaker 4: but they are tailor made for those sorts of environments

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Speaker 4: because they've been crafted over the eons by natural selection.

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Speaker 4: So it's a really cool concept to think about. But

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Speaker 4: I love the idea that you mentioned about like energy beings,

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Speaker 4: you know, something that is so far beyond the corporeal

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Speaker 4: existence that we are so familiar with. That's the sort

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Speaker 4: of stuff that I think is probably approximating more accurately

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Speaker 4: what could be out there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because we you know, like our idea of something

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Speaker 2: that is living or perhaps sentient, or perhaps has any

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Speaker 2: kind of consciousness or awareness, it's got to look like

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Speaker 2: either a human or an animal. It's got to have

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Speaker 2: a body, and it's got to ambulate a cross terror

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Speaker 2: firm and the way that we we do, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's like it couldn't be. Yeah, like trying to understand

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Speaker 2: life that doesn't look like an animal or an insect

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Speaker 2: or a bird or a human. Yeah, that's hard to

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Speaker 2: get your head around.

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Speaker 4: Well, what I think is much more likely given our

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Speaker 4: biological limitations in terms of leaving our planet. You know,

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Speaker 4: we will struggle with gravity, will struggle with pressure, with breathing.

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Speaker 4: Our bodies are not built to go you know, to

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Speaker 4: New Jersey, much less beyond the planet. Right, our bodies

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Speaker 4: just aren't suited for this. And you can imagine that

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Speaker 4: if life followed a similar evolutionary trajectory on other planets,

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Speaker 4: which I think, you know, the odds are probably pretty

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Speaker 4: reasonable something like that has happened. You know, there could

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Speaker 4: be beings that have those same problems that we face

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Speaker 4: with regard to space travel. Which is a long way

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Speaker 4: of saying, and a rather scary way of saying, that

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Speaker 4: anything that visits our planet is probably going to be machine. Okay,

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Speaker 4: it's going to have to survive the difficulties of space

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Speaker 4: travel and the time that it takes. So it's probably

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Speaker 4: going to be an artificial life of some kind. And

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Speaker 4: whether that's going to how that would react with a

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Speaker 4: species like our own is just fascinating to think about.

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Speaker 2: And isn't it interesting that you use the term which

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Speaker 2: we all do artificial life, right, because it's not a

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Speaker 2: life like ours.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that would probably be a little offensive.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, well, that's all the official artificial. It's

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Speaker 1: not real. But I wonder if there is for one

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Speaker 1: of a better term.

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Speaker 2: I'm real sucker, yeah, yeah, yeah, this is artificial.

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Speaker 1: I'm not ye yeah, yeah, yeah, I wonder imagine that.

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Speaker 2: I mean, like Elon musk et Ol talk about, you know,

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Speaker 2: AI being close to conscious or aware or sentient sometimes

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Speaker 2: in the next five to ten years, being able to

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Speaker 2: in invert a commas, think for itself and.

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Speaker 1: Create for itself. I don't know if.

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Speaker 2: That's really true or really possible, but it's it seems

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Speaker 2: like that's the direction we're heading in.

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Speaker 3: I think it's possible. I don't know what the timeline

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Speaker 3: on that would be, but the sophistication of.

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Speaker 4: Artificial intelligence is just staggering, and it's growing exponentially, so

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Speaker 4: I think we'll probably hit that singularity sooner rather than later.

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Speaker 4: What the consequences of that might be remain to be seen.

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Speaker 4: So I think we should proceed with a you know,

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Speaker 4: a healthy amount of caution because if we do create

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Speaker 4: machines that can think for themselves, we basically created a

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Speaker 4: new form of life, and it should be you know,

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Speaker 4: the questions of inherent rights and things like that are

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Speaker 4: going to come up. Does it have the right to

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Speaker 4: reproduce itself? And if that, if we if we allow

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Speaker 4: to do that, it could overwhelm our species, you know,

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Speaker 4: maybe rather quickly, so it could change everything. And then

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Speaker 4: the Earthlings, the humans that made this form of artificial life,

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Speaker 4: will probably figure out a way to go visit other worlds.

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Speaker 3: We will be the aliens.

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Speaker 4: Okay, not we per se, but the machines that we

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Speaker 4: created will be the ones who are going out and

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Speaker 4: exploring and you know, perhaps colonizing other worlds.

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Speaker 1: Imagine if we actually create a new life form in

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Speaker 1: inverted commas, that essentially is the end of us.

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Speaker 2: Like we produce some non biological entity that you know,

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Speaker 2: can't get sick, can't get diseased, that doesn't need food

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Speaker 2: per sale, though it needs energy, I'm sure, but yeah,

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Speaker 2: imagine that's not beyond the realms of I mean, I

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Speaker 2: know this seems ridiculous. When I used to hear conversations

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Speaker 2: like this Even ten years ago with a bunch of

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Speaker 2: the smarty pants people. I used to think that is

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Speaker 2: these people are you know, fantastical, Like this is just

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Speaker 2: complete bullshit.

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Speaker 1: This is never going to happen.

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Speaker 2: This is But now when I'm talking to chat GPT

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Speaker 2: like it's my second best friend, I'm like, oh, hang on,

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Speaker 2: the landscape has shifted somewhat.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely, it's pretty frightening what it can do already. And

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Speaker 4: you know, it's just going to get more powerful and

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Speaker 4: faster and more sophisticated, and it might get ahead of

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Speaker 4: us before we design proper regulations to reel it in

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Speaker 4: or keep it under control. I speculated in my book

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Speaker 4: Please to Meet Me. I speculated in our book as

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Speaker 4: kind of a joke, that humans might only be in

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Speaker 4: existence to serve as a stepping stone for the real

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Speaker 4: species that's going to take over the planet and the universe,

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Speaker 4: and that would be machine driven life, you know, with

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Speaker 4: artificial intelligence that is far superior than our own, and

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Speaker 4: that might really be a reality. And like you said,

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Speaker 4: what if we drive ourselves into extinction through the creation

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Speaker 4: that we make. I mean, yes, there was that was

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Speaker 4: basically the plot of Terminator, right, you know, we humans

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Speaker 4: basically did themselves in because they created these war machines

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Speaker 4: that turned on them because they got so smart. So, yeah,

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Speaker 4: we could we could be headed down that road. And

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Speaker 4: it's crazy to think that a movie that came out

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Speaker 4: in the late eighties, you know, just forty some years later,

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Speaker 4: seems like a very real possibility.

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Speaker 2: You've just given me the title for today's episode, Rise

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Speaker 2: of the Machines. Thank you for that, and thank you

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Speaker 2: to whatever franchise, whatever company might that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. You know what, what else fascinates me is like.

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Speaker 2: Our very limited understanding of what is intelligence, you know,

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Speaker 2: and you know, for us, intelligence typically is for better

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Speaker 2: or worse. We relate it to IQ. Obviously, it's a

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Speaker 2: it's a range of things, that's not a single thing.

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Speaker 2: But if somebody's got an IQ of one forty or more,

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Speaker 2: we call them a genius. If somebody's down around seventy

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Speaker 2: or lower, we might call them mentally challenged or you

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Speaker 2: know what it intellectually handicapped or whatever we want to

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Speaker 2: call it. Right, but we kind of put intelligence in

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Speaker 2: this jar. And as you were saying, you know, you're

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Speaker 2: talking about all the insects and the tiny forms of

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Speaker 2: life that we haven't even classified yet. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you put me and a shark in the ocean, Well,

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Speaker 2: the shark's much smarter than you know.

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Speaker 1: It depends.

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Speaker 2: I think intelligence is about an individual's capacity to survive

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Speaker 2: and thrive or adapt dependent on the context, the situation,

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Speaker 2: the requirements of survival. Like, to me, that's more an

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Speaker 2: insight into intelligence then whether or not I can do

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Speaker 2: pie to one hundred figures or you know, decimal points

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is.

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Speaker 3: That's that's right.

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Speaker 4: And I think we have this stereotypical view of what

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Speaker 4: intelligence is, but in my mind, it's a lot like beauty, right,

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Speaker 4: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I

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Speaker 4: think intelligence is in the eye of the beholder too,

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Speaker 4: because it's very contextual. We like to try to put

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Speaker 4: metrics on it with memory and learning or maybe i Q,

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Speaker 4: but that is an extremely limited view of intelligence. You know,

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Speaker 4: there's there's things like comedic genius, there's artistic genius, there's

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Speaker 4: podcaster genius. Looking at you great.

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Speaker 1: And you know, look I look at me. Thanks. Though.

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Speaker 4: You know, some people are really great with words. Some

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Speaker 4: people are really great writing them, but they're terrible speaking.

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Speaker 4: So this is what makes humanity function. More as a

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Speaker 4: collective than as a single individual. We are at our

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Speaker 4: best as a species when we join forces and come

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Speaker 4: together combine our talents, we can achieve great things that way.

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Speaker 4: I think this idea of a lone individual genius is

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Speaker 4: very limited. There are certainly savants, people who can do

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Speaker 4: extraordinary calculations in their head or have memory recall that

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Speaker 4: is just staggering, and it really opens up some possible

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Speaker 4: insights as to what's going on in the brain with

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Speaker 4: respect to those particular biological functions. Yeah, but what we

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Speaker 4: usually see in people who have an extremely well developed

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Speaker 4: aspect of intelligence is that there's a trade off somewhere else.

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Speaker 4: No one's perfect, right, So when a lot of these savants,

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Speaker 4: they have social acumen difficulties, They don't interact appropriately in

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Speaker 4: social settings. Many of them are autistic. Many of them

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Speaker 4: have trouble with theory of mind, which is trying to

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Speaker 4: interpret how another person thinks and feels that. That's a

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Speaker 4: brain based activity, and there's obviously some people who can

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Speaker 4: do it better than others. There's also other life forms

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Speaker 4: that can do theory of mind very well. So that

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Speaker 4: extends the definition of intelligence to other species as well.

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Speaker 4: Species that we consider kind of lower than us on

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Speaker 4: the evolutionary ladder. But I think we need to throw

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Speaker 4: that ladder away and get back to something that you said.

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Speaker 4: It's all contextual. You know, if you can take the

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Speaker 4: brightest person on the planet, you drop them in a

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Speaker 4: tank with a shark, they're not going to look so smart, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, so I sorry. Sorry.

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Speaker 2: My training partner, the guy do the gym with every day.

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Speaker 2: He's practically one of the a practical problem solving real

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Speaker 2: world every day. Since I always say, if you're going

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Speaker 2: to get stuck on an island or in some remote area,

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Speaker 2: don't get stuck with me, because you'll be dead by lunchtime. Right,

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Speaker 2: Get stuck with him, you know, because he will build

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Speaker 2: you a small town by close of business.

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Speaker 1: Right.

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Speaker 2: He'll find water, he'll build shelter, He'll kill a couple

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Speaker 2: of things to eat.

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Speaker 1: Nothing cute, tiff, you know, just a snake or something,

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Speaker 1: you know.

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Speaker 2: And but but I'm things like that. I'm home completely

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Speaker 2: like I'm the dumbest person in the room.

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Speaker 1: But I you know.

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Speaker 2: That pursuant to this, I was listening to a guy

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Speaker 2: who you know quite well. This site Craigslist, t if

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Speaker 2: have you ever heard of Craigslist. Yeah, yeah, it's like

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Speaker 2: a really big thing in the States. It was one

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Speaker 2: of the first. Correct me if I'm wrong, doctor Bill,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. But it's one of the where people

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Speaker 2: can go on and just find like anything from a

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Speaker 2: babysitter to a second hand car, to a job, to

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Speaker 2: some mirrors.

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Speaker 1: For your motorbike tear or whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: Right, you can And anyway, the guy that started that,

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Speaker 2: I heard him interview the other day.

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Speaker 1: His name is Craig Newmark.

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Speaker 4: Do you know this guy, doc, No, I am familiar

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Speaker 4: with Craig's list. It was very popular some time ago.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's still around. It's still around.

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Speaker 2: And he he he is a genius, but he's socially

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Speaker 2: super clunky, and he knows it and he says it

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Speaker 2: and he's like, I can't really read like. He's being

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Speaker 2: interviewed by Theo Vaughn, right, who's a comedian, and you

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Speaker 2: could not find two more different people. And there were

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Speaker 2: times when the chat was actually awkward because they're so different.

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Speaker 2: They didn't really get each other in the moment. And

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Speaker 2: Leo's got a certain kind of comedic intelligence, but you

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Speaker 2: wouldn't call him I mean this with respect. Typically super smart,

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Speaker 2: he's not dumb, but it's like a particular kind of creative,

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Speaker 2: comedic intelligence. And this other guy's got this, I would say,

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Speaker 2: he's IQ's through the roof. But he's just very good

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Speaker 2: at figuring things out. But to hear him talk about

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Speaker 2: how the things that he can't do, things he's got

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Speaker 2: no idea about, but his wife takes care of because

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Speaker 2: she knows how to do that, how awkward he is

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Speaker 2: in social situations and he only goes like he gets

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Speaker 2: permission to not go to certain things she lets him.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it was so funny listening to him have

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Speaker 2: that level of self awareness about where his intelligence and

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Speaker 2: kind of intellectualizes, so to speak, and where it does.

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Speaker 4: That kind of self awareness, I would say, is another

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Speaker 4: aspect of intelligence. Yes, it takes a lot of you know,

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Speaker 4: smarts to realize what your strengths and weaknesses are and

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Speaker 4: to you know, to not be afraid to confront them

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Speaker 4: or to play to those strengths. Emotional intelligence is a

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Speaker 4: whole nother ballgame.

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Speaker 3: You know, there are some.

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Speaker 4: People who can really excel in life because of their ability,

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Speaker 4: you know, to master emotions or read emotions and other

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Speaker 4: people so yeah, I again, I think that's what, you know,

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Speaker 4: one of the diverse things about individual humans or all

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Speaker 4: these different strengths and weaknesses, and the trick we face

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Speaker 4: as a species is coming together and finding people who

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Speaker 4: can fill the gaps that that we have, you know,

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Speaker 4: find people who do have the strengths that will neutralize

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Speaker 4: our weaknesses, and then you can form really wonderful teams.

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Speaker 2: Is there anything happening in the intersection of the study

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Speaker 2: of genetics and infectious diseases, which is your wheelhouse unless

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Speaker 2: I've fucked that up? And II Is there any kind

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Speaker 2: of convergence.

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Speaker 4: There artificial intelligence with respect to infectious data.

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Speaker 2: With respect to research in genetics and infectious diseases and

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Speaker 2: all of that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, in many different capacities. So I would just

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Speaker 4: say in all of the sciences, just like many other businesses,

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Speaker 4: it's really hard to get away from people who are

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Speaker 4: utilizing these AI tools to generate writing, to generate text.

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Speaker 4: So we're now having discussions of our students allowed to

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Speaker 4: do this and to what extent can they use these

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Speaker 4: tools to write their own papers or write their own exams.

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Speaker 3: So that's that's a real.

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Speaker 4: Cutting edge issue that we're struggling with right now, and

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Speaker 4: you also have people who are utilizing these tools to

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Speaker 4: help you design experiments and possibly write research grants. Now,

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Speaker 4: that might come to a reviewer's conundrum because if you're

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Speaker 4: reviewing these grants and funding is on the line for

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Speaker 4: this work, and one person utilized artificial intelligence to come

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Speaker 4: up with the ideas and one person did not, is

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Speaker 4: there an advantage there that one person exploited that the

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Speaker 4: other person didn't use. These are some thorny issues that

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Speaker 4: we aren't quite prepared to face because the technology has

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Speaker 4: evolved so much more rapidly than we've we've been able

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Speaker 4: to put any sort of regulation on it. And at

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Speaker 4: the end of the day, I think it's going to

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Speaker 4: be valuable if we can use this artificial intelligence to

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Speaker 4: generate really great innovations that can save lives or help

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Speaker 4: us predict where the next pandemic or outbreak might occur.

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Speaker 4: Utilizing machines in medical clinics that can identify breast cancer

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Speaker 4: on images much better than a human doctor can. That's

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Speaker 4: extraordinarily powerful, and I believe it would be unethical to

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Speaker 4: continue using human eye sight when artificial intelligence is proven

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Speaker 4: to be better.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I worry a little bit about the

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Speaker 2: I don't know if this is the right term, but

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Speaker 2: like the cognitive and creative cost to the individual when

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Speaker 2: all of their or a lot of their thinking in

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Speaker 2: inverted commas and creating is being done by AI, what

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Speaker 2: the cost of the individual may be? Yeah, like Weld,

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Speaker 2: like there, you know, if all of my problems are

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Speaker 2: being by AI, and all my questions are being answered

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Speaker 2: by AI, and even the writing of my exam or

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Speaker 2: the writing of my paper or the conceptualization of my

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Speaker 2: business plan, like I'm not even fucking thinking of it.

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Speaker 2: It's like, you know, it's like, what's going to happen

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Speaker 2: to my brain? And my capacity might not not to

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Speaker 2: find a resource to do it, but for me individually

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Speaker 2: to think clearly, to solve problems, to be able to

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Speaker 2: you know, interpret things, break things down, tell stories, be creative,

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Speaker 2: communicate optimally.

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Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I feel like that.

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Speaker 2: That could be a negative kind of byproduct of using

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Speaker 2: these tools, as great as they are.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it does raise some interesting questions because you can

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Speaker 4: imagine that if.

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Speaker 3: The more that we have machines do.

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Speaker 4: For us, the less capable you know, we become over time.

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Speaker 4: So for example, I hardly remember phone numbers anymore. But

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Speaker 4: when I was growing up, I had like a rolodex

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Speaker 4: of fifty phone numbers in my head. Easy, okay for

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Speaker 4: all the girls who would never call me back. I

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Speaker 4: had a lot of numbers that I could keep trying

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Speaker 4: to try to find a date. But nonetheless, I don't

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Speaker 4: need to do that anymore. I can pack my phone.

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Speaker 4: My phone's my new black book. It has all the

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Speaker 4: numbers that I need, and I don't need to memorize them. Now.

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Speaker 4: If something happens to my phone, I'm screwed because they're

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Speaker 4: not in my head. So it does make you wonder

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Speaker 4: if you can imagine that phone number example, happening with

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Speaker 4: all sorts of other things. Is our memory going to

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Speaker 4: go to pot because we're not really utilizing it anymore. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's an interesting question we may be seeing. We may

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Speaker 4: be in the midst of the emergence of a new

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Speaker 4: human skill set, and that skill set might be who

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Speaker 4: can use artificial intelligent in the most innovative and creative way,

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Speaker 4: you know, to be successful, to make money or you know,

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Speaker 4: invent something, what have you, whatever your definition of success

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Speaker 4: might be. That might be the new skill set that

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Speaker 4: is at hand. You know, much like social media has

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Speaker 4: developed this new skill set to become for people to

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Speaker 4: become influencers. You know, very few people rise to the

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Speaker 4: top where they can have hundreds of thousands of followers

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Speaker 4: and you know millions of like with just about anything

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Speaker 4: they post, no matter how ridiculous or silly it might seem.

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Speaker 4: They've seized on this new technology in a very intelligent,

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Speaker 4: very creative way and have become influencers, which is something

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Speaker 4: that did not exist just fifteen twenty years ago. So

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Speaker 4: we're I think we're going to see something like that

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Speaker 4: evolve out of AI. Who can use it the best

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Speaker 4: time will tell you it's not going to be me.

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Speaker 4: But you know, I think that's where things might proceed.

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Speaker 4: But I do share your concern that innate human capacities

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Speaker 4: may fall by the wayside, just like a muscle will

437
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 4: atrophy if you don't continue to use it.

438
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 2: I was talking to a mum recently, yesterday or the

439
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 2: day before, and she's talking about buying her She's got

440
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 2: two kids to twin boys right about fourteen, and one

441
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: wants an electric bike, so bike that you don't have

442
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,320
Speaker 2: to pedal, and one wants an electric scooter, a scooter

443
00:27:40,359 --> 00:27:43,240
Speaker 2: where you don't need to push am I.

444
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: And she's conflicted. I said you should be conflicted. I go,

445
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: fourteen year old boys should be fucking pedaling and pushing

446
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: and sweating and using their muscles and getting fits. And

447
00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:02,520
Speaker 1: I know I sound like an old bastard, but I'm like.

448
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: Do we need I mean, Australia has got amongst the

449
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,439
Speaker 2: highest rates of childhood obesity in the world. Do we

450
00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 2: need to introduce bikes where hey, now we don't even

451
00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 2: need to pedal, we just need to sit, And we

452
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 2: don't need to push on the scooter, we just need

453
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:19,439
Speaker 2: to be on it.

454
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: It will take us there.

455
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 2: Like I just and I understand, I get it, But

456
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 2: I'm like, I look at the decline in you know,

457
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter how much information, inspiration, education resources loaf

458
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 2: at this bloody you know, instant that all the bloody regimes,

459
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 2: it's not helping. Like we are not becoming healthier and

460
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,240
Speaker 2: fitter and stronger and leaner. And I'm not talking about

461
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 2: vanity or ego everyone. I'm talking about function, longevity, health span, wellness.

462
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:55,640
Speaker 2: Like we're getting despite the research and our alleged intelligence,

463
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 2: we're getting worse because we we just keep looking for

464
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 2: the most comfortab fucking option, and that comes at great

465
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 2: cost over the long term. Mild in mild convenience in

466
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,719
Speaker 2: the short term, but over the long term it's fucking destructive.

467
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 2: Steps down off sapebox.

468
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,120
Speaker 4: No, no, I agree, I would jump on that soapbox

469
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:16,719
Speaker 4: with you.

470
00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:17,520
Speaker 3: I mean.

471
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 4: The counter argument is that children can ride these bikes

472
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:25,200
Speaker 4: a greater distance without getting tired, so if they have

473
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 4: a friend who happens to be a little too far

474
00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,920
Speaker 4: for a pedal bike, they can now get there. Scooters

475
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,120
Speaker 4: are great for you know, especially I can use the

476
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 4: example of students on campus. If you've got to get

477
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,479
Speaker 4: from one end to campus to the other quite quickly,

478
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 4: These motorized scooters are very handy. But I think that's

479
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 4: all fine and good under those circumstances. Great, but let's

480
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 4: not lose sight of the fact that we still have

481
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 4: to get out there and use a pedal bike or

482
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 4: use our legs and run and walk. Because if we

483
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:58,680
Speaker 4: do utilize those tools, which makes life a little more

484
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 4: convenient in some aspect, there's going to be a trade

485
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:07,000
Speaker 4: off that we're just leaning more into that sedentary lifestyle,

486
00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:12,479
Speaker 4: which we know is demonstrably unhealthy and tremendously bad for

487
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 4: both our physical and mental well being. We need to

488
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 4: incorporate as much movement and exercise into our daily life

489
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:27,720
Speaker 4: as possible. These new conveniences, despite making life easier, may

490
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,760
Speaker 4: actually make life a lot harder in the long run,

491
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 4: because we are going to become very unhealthy if we

492
00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 4: don't get to exercise our body needs.

493
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,360
Speaker 2: I mean, this is a very I don't expect you

494
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 2: to have a clear answer to this, but just an

495
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: interesting thought, like in general, unless there's some turnaround. I think,

496
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 2: over the last especially over the last one hundred years,

497
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:58,560
Speaker 2: humans broadly speaking move less. You know, we are more sedentary.

498
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:06,240
Speaker 2: Things of obviously are more convenient, more mechanized, you know,

499
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 2: and so we don't have to move and expend as

500
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 2: much energy as we once did because of everything we

501
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 2: have access to. If we continued on this trend of

502
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 2: moving less and being more sedentory, and you know, from

503
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 2: a biological point of view, you know, we would lose

504
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: muscle mass, we would.

505
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: Lose bone density.

506
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: Over the generations, we would you know, become from a

507
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: physiological point less capable than our ancestors of one hundred two,

508
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: three hundred years ago. How long does it take do

509
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,480
Speaker 2: you reckon when we live in this all of these

510
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: cultures and lifestyles and behaviors that are basically making life

511
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 2: more comfortable for us. Before there's some kind of real

512
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,479
Speaker 2: genetic consequence in a species.

513
00:31:58,920 --> 00:31:59,880
Speaker 1: Well were weird.

514
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 4: We are not going to be able to evolve the

515
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:09,920
Speaker 4: genetic mutations necessary to thrive. You know in that kind

516
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 4: of environment. Evolution doesn't work that way, doesn't It moves

517
00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 4: glacially slow. We're still trying to adapt to the agricultural

518
00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,640
Speaker 4: revolution of just ten thousand years ago. Our bodies are

519
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 4: not built to eat a lot of the products that

520
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 4: are grown, you know, in farms around the world. You know,

521
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 4: we used to have a much more diverse and varied diet.

522
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 4: And you know, we we were basically designing a world

523
00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 4: that is so far out of alignment with how our

524
00:32:44,360 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 4: bodies and minds evolved that there's a concept called the

525
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:54,440
Speaker 4: evolutionary mismatch. You know, there are these mismatches and evolution

526
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:59,719
Speaker 4: in that we've created a modern world where biologically our

527
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 4: mind and body is ill suited to thrive in. And

528
00:33:03,720 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 4: this has been postulated to be the bedrock underlying reason

529
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 4: why there's so much depression and misery even though we

530
00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:20,560
Speaker 4: have all these extraordinary conveniences and technological advances right and

531
00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 4: right at our grasp, at the end of the day,

532
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 4: we're just not living as evolution intended us to live.

533
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 4: If we can get back to that, I'm not saying

534
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 4: we have to get rid of all these wonderful conveniences.

535
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 4: We can have the best of both worlds. We just

536
00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:41,920
Speaker 4: need to remember to incorporate some paleolithic principles and lifestyles

537
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 4: into our modern lifestyle so that our bodies are fooled

538
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 4: into thinking that we're still kind of, you know, a

539
00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 4: hunter gatherer ish, and we can then thrive in the

540
00:33:54,200 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 4: modern world. You get what I'm saying. Discussed example of

541
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 4: this before with Granted, there's a lot of things in

542
00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 4: life that force you to be sedentary, but that doesn't

543
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 4: mean you can't get out there and exercise a certain

544
00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 4: amount every day to kind of compensate for all that resting.

545
00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 4: Another thing that modern lifestyle does is it keeps us

546
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:27,400
Speaker 4: up a lot longer than evolution intended us to be awake. Okay,

547
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 4: with all the artificial lights and night shift jobs, and

548
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 4: you know, the blue screens that are at all the time,

549
00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 4: this is not how we were meant to live. We

550
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:45,120
Speaker 4: were meant to live with a in a circadian rhythm,

551
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 4: sint to the rising and setting of the sun, and

552
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 4: melatonin would naturally get you know, built up in our

553
00:34:53,560 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 4: bodies as the sun goes down, make us sleepy, so

554
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 4: that we would fall asleep a few hours after sundown

555
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 4: and then wake up, you know, just before the sun.

556
00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 4: There's a there's a reason our eyelids are so thin.

557
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 4: You know, it lets light in and we don't realize it,

558
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:13,759
Speaker 4: but when our eyes are closed and the sun is

559
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,920
Speaker 4: coming up, the light shines into our into our eyes

560
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:22,279
Speaker 4: and starts to stop the melatonin and get other chemicals

561
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 4: going to wake us up. It's a it's a really

562
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,400
Speaker 4: fascinating thing. And we've evolved that way for millions of

563
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:31,239
Speaker 4: years and over the past you know, probably just two

564
00:35:31,320 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 4: hundred years, you know, maybe even one hundred whenever electricity

565
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,759
Speaker 4: became a thing, we really started to play around with,

566
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 4: you know, day and night time. We've we've extended our

567
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:47,480
Speaker 4: waking hours. Corporations abuse this and put people to work

568
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 4: for longer periods of time, and they put them to

569
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 4: work at night or at dawn, and this is totally

570
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:58,360
Speaker 4: screwed up. Our circadian rhythm, and without a healthy night's sleep,

571
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 4: of course we're all going to be miserable. We're all

572
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,240
Speaker 4: going to be needing caffeine in the morning or maybe

573
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,719
Speaker 4: alcohol to put us to sleep. It's just not a

574
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:10,600
Speaker 4: good way to live. We don't need to live like that.

575
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: Yes, that is so, Yeah, you're right.

576
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 2: I mean, you think about how long we've had electricity

577
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 2: whatever one hundred years or one hundred twenty years or

578
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 2: whatever it is, and.

579
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,440
Speaker 1: You know, agriculture ten thousand years, and.

580
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 2: We've been around for whatever two hundred thousand and three

581
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 2: hundred thousand as a species, as modern humans or whatever,

582
00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:37,440
Speaker 2: but evolving for however long before that, And then you

583
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,520
Speaker 2: think that everything that we currently or most things that

584
00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 2: we currently have access to and use for nearly the

585
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: entirety of our existence has a species wasn't here, you know,

586
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,080
Speaker 2: and think about like the gap between say two and

587
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 2: a half thousand years ago and two thousand years ago,

588
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 2: So that five hundred year gap, there wasn't a whole

589
00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 2: lot that happened in terms of technological advancement. I'm sure

590
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:08,799
Speaker 2: stuff did, but you know, when you think about the

591
00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:13,439
Speaker 2: way that technology is changing the way that we live

592
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,640
Speaker 2: now it's almost like by the year, there are more

593
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 2: changes in a year than maybe happen in a century

594
00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:22,960
Speaker 2: if we go back far enough, you know what I'm saying.

595
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,799
Speaker 1: And then to your point.

596
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:31,319
Speaker 2: Of sleep, it's so true with the light thing, and

597
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:35,160
Speaker 2: you think about, well, if you don't have quality sleep,

598
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,320
Speaker 2: then no wonder you're anxious. No wonder, you're producing copious

599
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 2: amounts of quarters on. No wonder your nervous systems jacked,

600
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:47,120
Speaker 2: you know, because your body's not resetting and recovering because

601
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 2: you're not getting what it needs to get you back

602
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 2: to status quo for the next day.

603
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:56,880
Speaker 4: Yeah, I just read this, so it's kind of at

604
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:57,800
Speaker 4: the top of my mind.

605
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 3: The whole phenomenon blue light.

606
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 4: You hear a lot about this in the popular press

607
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:07,719
Speaker 4: because our phones and tablets and television screens emit this

608
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 4: blue light. And they say, the worst thing you can

609
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 4: do is use your screen right before you're trying to

610
00:38:14,120 --> 00:38:17,160
Speaker 4: go to bed, because that blue light keeps you awake.

611
00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 4: And what's really fascinating is that you know, the blue

612
00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 4: light is in the UV spectrum, so that blue light

613
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 4: that we would see outside, well that would be feeding

614
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 4: into our eyes. We don't see the blue light per se. Okay,

615
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 4: we see the white light and you know, and the

616
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 4: blue light is the UV rays that enter into our

617
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,600
Speaker 4: body and tell our brain that it's daytime. So the

618
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,279
Speaker 4: blue light that we get off of our tablets and

619
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 4: phones is basically saying it's still daytime, and it fools

620
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 4: our brain into thinking that it still has to stay

621
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 4: awake because even though the sun might be down, this

622
00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 4: blue light is still sending a signal to our brain

623
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 4: that it's daytime. And this goes all the way back

624
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 4: to single cell evolution. The reason why our cells respond

625
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 4: to this blue light, or at least the theory goes,

626
00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 4: is that blue light can penetrate the ocean where life began,

627
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 4: and the primordial organisms that arose out of the ocean

628
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,200
Speaker 4: could then sense when it was when the sun was

629
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 4: out because the blue light was coming through the water.

630
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 4: It's pretty fascinating and I might not be getting all

631
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 4: the nuts and bolts of that right, but the evolution

632
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 4: of circadian rhythm happened billions of years ago in single

633
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 4: cells that were in the ocean because the blue wavelength

634
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 4: of light was what they could detect underwater, and our

635
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 4: cells have kept that characteristic through billions of years of evolution,

636
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 4: and we have a circadian rhythm to this day that

637
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 4: is governm and by blue light. I found that fascinating,

638
00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 4: and I probably screwed up some of the details, but

639
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,279
Speaker 4: people could use AI to go learn more about it.

640
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 1: I see what you did, that's okay.

641
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 2: Yeah. If I don't sleep great, Oh tif you get

642
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:21,760
Speaker 2: a bit cranky or tificates hungry.

643
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,000
Speaker 1: Tell doctor Bill what hungry is. He might have figured

644
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:25,359
Speaker 1: it out.

645
00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,520
Speaker 5: Hungry is the most intense emotion that you could ever feel, Bill,

646
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 5: And it's when you're hungry. It's when you're hungry real quick,

647
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 5: like me, and you can't do anything else. You can't people,

648
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 5: you can't. All of your interpersonal skills gone.

649
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can't operate unless you get food.

650
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 5: Right.

651
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:45,840
Speaker 1: Yeah.

652
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 5: Like, I'm okay to get up and fast and be hungry,

653
00:40:50,160 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 5: but once I've eaten for the day and then I

654
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,080
Speaker 5: get hungry again. It's not an option to push that

655
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 5: bad boy out very upset.

656
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 4: If you're not alone, you shouldn't feel bad about it.

657
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 4: Hangry is a real thing, and I know some science

658
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:10,239
Speaker 4: experiments that back it up. Craig, you might have read

659
00:41:10,239 --> 00:41:12,520
Speaker 4: this in my book, because I know you're an avid

660
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 4: reader of my book.

661
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: And well probably no book which is called sentence.

662
00:41:18,760 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 2: Please to make mes James, germs and the curious forces

663
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: that make us who we are. I'll say that again.

664
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,880
Speaker 2: Please to make me doctor Bill's book. I actually do

665
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 2: have doctor Bill's book. I could even show you. It's

666
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 2: on my phone.

667
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: Yes, go on, tell us about the research.

668
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 4: Oh yes, this is for Tiff, so she doesn't feel

669
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 4: bad about this.

670
00:41:40,000 --> 00:41:41,600
Speaker 3: This relates to.

671
00:41:43,600 --> 00:41:48,440
Speaker 4: Some you know, I guess a field of like of psychology,

672
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:52,240
Speaker 4: and this is a very famous experiment that, from my understanding,

673
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:57,239
Speaker 4: has been reproduced on a number of occasions. But psychologists

674
00:41:57,320 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 4: studied the rate by which people in jail were granted parole. Okay,

675
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 4: and it turns out did you hear about this? Tiss

676
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:11,839
Speaker 4: nodding her head, So I'm suspecting she might have heard

677
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:16,400
Speaker 4: about this study. You're more likely to be granted parole

678
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,640
Speaker 4: by the judge if your case is heard early in

679
00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 4: the morning, as opposed to just before lunch, so your

680
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 4: chances of getting parole go down the hungrier the more

681
00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:37,640
Speaker 4: angry the judge is. If your case goes up after

682
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 4: lunch toward to the judge, the judge is more likely

683
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 4: to grant you parole.

684
00:42:42,520 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 3: So TIFFs, you're right.

685
00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,960
Speaker 4: As soon as you get fed, you're back to friendly Tiff.

686
00:42:48,120 --> 00:42:51,600
Speaker 3: Right, you're not the haulk anymore.

687
00:42:51,640 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 4: You go back to friendly, mild manner Tiff who helps

688
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 4: people across the street. So, yeah, the hangry is a

689
00:42:59,360 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 4: real thing. It's backed up by science. And if you're

690
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 4: ever in jail, Craig, remember don't go up from for

691
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 4: all right before lunch.

692
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: Good to know what we're going to say too.

693
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,480
Speaker 4: Similar similar studies, I think have been done in doctors' offices.

694
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 4: You know, you're usually shortchanged, you're rushed out of the

695
00:43:18,440 --> 00:43:22,680
Speaker 4: office if you see the doctor rate before lunch. But

696
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:26,439
Speaker 4: if you see the doctor after lunch, they're more likely

697
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 4: to spend more time with you, ask you more questions.

698
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 4: And it's very interesting phenomenon.

699
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,520
Speaker 5: It makes sense for evolution because I think about how

700
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:39,880
Speaker 5: we react to circumstances and there needs to be a

701
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 5: subset of people who see anger is very urgent and

702
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 5: go and get the damn food, while the other grown

703
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 5: ups look after the kids and the home and everything

704
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 5: without like eating the children and being angry mothers. So

705
00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 5: you know, it makes sense.

706
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good doctor and very quickly.

707
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 4: Eating the Children's not a good evolutionary strategy, right, so.

708
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 5: I'd be out hunting for the next meal.

709
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 1: I don't want to say. That's not what I don't

710
00:44:12,719 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: want to say. That's not why you're a mother. But well,

711
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 1: I've got dogs and cats. That's funny I heard going duck.

712
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 4: Sorry, I was just going to say that, Tiff kind

713
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,520
Speaker 4: of just hit the nail on the head. That's why

714
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 4: we have these emotions. You know, we get irritable and

715
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 4: angry because we can't get food off our mind. Our

716
00:44:34,640 --> 00:44:37,719
Speaker 4: body needs nourishment and it needs it now. So these

717
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,520
Speaker 4: emotions compel us to go, you know, create an action.

718
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:45,880
Speaker 4: They motivate us to, you know, go out and gather

719
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 4: some roots, or you know, kill someone, kill a non

720
00:44:49,160 --> 00:44:49,880
Speaker 4: cute animal.

721
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 1: Exactly wants to have.

722
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 5: A pet snake harps, that was no good.

723
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:01,160
Speaker 2: But don't don't kill a whippet, that's for sure. For one.

724
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:07,839
Speaker 2: I feel like I've heard similar information about if you

725
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 2: if you're in court and you're you're going to get

726
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 2: a sentence, you're better off to get a sentence after

727
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,200
Speaker 2: the judge has eaten or like you said, early in

728
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 2: the morning or after lunch. I feel like the end

729
00:45:18,680 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 2: of the day is a bad time to have brain surgery.

730
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,480
Speaker 2: I think I want my brain surgeon first thing in

731
00:45:24,520 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 2: the morning. You know, there's probably a few things like

732
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 2: that that could be life shaping for Then.

733
00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 4: You can tame your appointments very strategically. Now, it's always

734
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 4: better to have a meeting after lunch. People are in

735
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 4: a better mood.

736
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 2: It's good to know it's good tonight. It's twelve eighteen

737
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,960
Speaker 2: in Melbourne. Tip is probably pretty hungry about now.

738
00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 5: Now, I had I don't come into these things hungry alps.

739
00:45:57,000 --> 00:45:59,919
Speaker 2: Doctor Bill's books called Please to Make Me, Jean's Germ,

740
00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:02,120
Speaker 2: and the curious Forces that make us who we are.

741
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 2: He's a superstar, mate, thank you so much for this year.

742
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 2: I know you don't need to be here. Just not

743
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,919
Speaker 2: that he wants anyone to know this, But he gets

744
00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:13,000
Speaker 2: paid zero. I don't know why he puts up with

745
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,200
Speaker 2: me everyone, but he does. He seems to. Maybe he's

746
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: a glutton for punishment. Maybe I'm his community outreach project.

747
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 2: I'm not sure, but he keeps coming back. And Mate,

748
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 2: thank you so much. You're a superstar. We love and

749
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 2: appreciate you, and thanks for being part of typ in

750
00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 2: twenty twenty four.

751
00:46:31,440 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 3: Hey, it's my pleasure.

752
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 5: You know.

753
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 4: I love to do this, even though the pay is

754
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:39,239
Speaker 4: not that good. You know, it comes back to me

755
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 4: in other ways. It's always a joy chatting with you

756
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 4: and Tiff and seeing the comments that your listeners post

757
00:46:47,120 --> 00:46:50,279
Speaker 4: on the social media channels. It's always fun to read

758
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,680
Speaker 4: those two. It's thrilling that so many people get so

759
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 4: much out of your podcast, especially on the days that

760
00:46:56,680 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 4: I'm here.

761
00:46:58,280 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.

762
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:03,040
Speaker 2: Well, I tell you what, And this year's award for

763
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,759
Speaker 2: humility on the show goes to.

764
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:07,880
Speaker 1: Professor Bill Sullivan.

765
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,319
Speaker 2: I tell you what, because you've been so good, I'm

766
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 2: going to double your annual salary, your EYP salary that

767
00:47:16,400 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 2: is not your actual salary, your t YP salary.

768
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to double it next year. You're welcome.

769
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 4: Oh man, We're going to go out for a nice

770
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:26,640
Speaker 4: Christmas dinner.

771
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 2: All right, mate, Well, say goodbye Affair, but thanks again.

772
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 2: We appreciate you.

773
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 3: Hey, Happy holidays everyone,