1
00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,520
Speaker 1: I get a team, Tiffany Cook, Bill Sullivan, Craig Anthony

2
00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:06,120
Speaker 1: Harp reporting in for duty just before Christmas. It is

3
00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:08,920
Speaker 1: the twenty third of the twelfth, the year of our

4
00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:12,320
Speaker 1: Lord Annodominie, as my father, my very Catholic father would say,

5
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,280
Speaker 1: in the United States as we speak, I suspect it's

6
00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:18,520
Speaker 1: the twenty second of the twelfth in the PM AM.

7
00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:23,640
Speaker 1: I correct, doctor Bill, you are correct. Well, we are

8
00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,200
Speaker 1: in the future for you, and let me tell you

9
00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:28,920
Speaker 1: that so far it's okay.

10
00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,160
Speaker 2: That's good to hear. I was very concerned about the future,

11
00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,159
Speaker 2: especially you know, just twenty four hours ahead.

12
00:00:36,680 --> 00:00:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, yeah, I mean, look, we're here and it

13
00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:44,199
Speaker 1: seems to be okay, although things do seem to be

14
00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:47,600
Speaker 1: quite fragile in the States with UFOs and things in

15
00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,520
Speaker 1: the inexplicable things in the sky. Did you take any

16
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:53,640
Speaker 1: interest in that? That's got quite a bit of my

17
00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,880
Speaker 1: ledge over here in boring little Australia.

18
00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,200
Speaker 2: Is that right? Well, weird things are always happening in

19
00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,760
Speaker 2: New Jersey, so this didn't surprise me at all.

20
00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,320
Speaker 1: Shout out to our four listeners in New Jersey. It's

21
00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,400
Speaker 1: now down to three. We just lost twenty five percent.

22
00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:14,920
Speaker 1: What not that we not that we talk about this,

23
00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,640
Speaker 1: but UFOs I mean, which doesn't necessarily I mean UFOs exist.

24
00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:21,480
Speaker 1: It just means there's something in the sky. We don't

25
00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:24,920
Speaker 1: know what it is, right, but what are the chances

26
00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,039
Speaker 1: is that there is? And I know this is not

27
00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,520
Speaker 1: your field, but you know, just your hunch, is there

28
00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:35,919
Speaker 1: ex extraterrestrial intelligence outside of us?

29
00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:44,319
Speaker 2: Hmm, yeah, that's a good question. I'm not so sure

30
00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:48,320
Speaker 2: you're being a little generous and calling our species intelligent.

31
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:49,640
Speaker 1: That's true.

32
00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 2: I think I get your point. I think I get

33
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 2: your point. And you know, I've done a lot of

34
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,360
Speaker 2: reading on the subject. I love Carl Sagan's work as

35
00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:03,880
Speaker 2: I was growing up. It was one of my inspiration inspirations,

36
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:06,480
Speaker 2: if you will, to go into a career of science.

37
00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:13,880
Speaker 2: And he's always amazed me with his capacity to, you know,

38
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:20,200
Speaker 2: express just how large the universe is. You know, billions

39
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:29,560
Speaker 2: and billions of stars, galaxies. It's just extraordinarily, incomprehensibly large.

40
00:02:29,760 --> 00:02:35,560
Speaker 2: So I had a professor back in my college days

41
00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:39,920
Speaker 2: who was teaching physics and some cosmology stuff, and he

42
00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,600
Speaker 2: just said, it would be beyond comprehension that there's not

43
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,839
Speaker 2: something else out there. There are just too many possibility,

44
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:53,200
Speaker 2: too many other worlds. It probably wouldn't look anything like us,

45
00:02:53,800 --> 00:02:57,120
Speaker 2: but there must be some other form of intelligence out there,

46
00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:02,000
Speaker 2: I think he was. He was quick to add that

47
00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,680
Speaker 2: we are too boring and primitive for any extraterrestrial species

48
00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:11,000
Speaker 2: to have any interest in whatsoever so far. So that's

49
00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:17,200
Speaker 2: probably why we are left with just speculating about UFO visitation.

50
00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:20,799
Speaker 2: You know, there's there's certainly no hard evidence that we've

51
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,679
Speaker 2: ever been visited before. And you notice that all those

52
00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:30,680
Speaker 2: sightings started, you know, around the time we were starting

53
00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 2: to go to the Moon and things like that, so

54
00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:37,600
Speaker 2: that it tracks with where our intelligence has been. You know,

55
00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:40,600
Speaker 2: if you go look at ancient cave paintings, you see

56
00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:44,120
Speaker 2: pictures of animals and stick figures. You don't see UFOs

57
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:44,720
Speaker 2: in the sky.

58
00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,400
Speaker 1: Mmmm. That's interesting. That is interesting. It's like, isn't it

59
00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,640
Speaker 1: funny how we look at whatever it is We look

60
00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:57,600
Speaker 1: at through them without trying to sound too philosophical or

61
00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:00,720
Speaker 1: you know, weird, but we look through through the window

62
00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:05,520
Speaker 1: of our understanding and like, what's our what's my perception

63
00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 1: of UFOs? Well, my favorite Martian kicked it off, you know,

64
00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:14,400
Speaker 1: and all of that. You know all of those kind

65
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,440
Speaker 1: of and mark from Orc and you know, it's funny,

66
00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:24,440
Speaker 1: like we have this idea that somebody from or somebody

67
00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:30,480
Speaker 1: something from somewhere else will be vaguely familiar to us

68
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,320
Speaker 1: but a little bit weird of shape or I mean,

69
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:38,479
Speaker 1: who knows, maybe there's intelligence that isn't even doesn't have

70
00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:41,120
Speaker 1: a physical body in the way that we think of it.

71
00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 1: You know, it's like we think it's got to be

72
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:45,559
Speaker 1: a version of us, but without a nose and maybe

73
00:04:45,600 --> 00:04:48,680
Speaker 1: three eyes, and maybe only four foot tall and probably

74
00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:52,960
Speaker 1: gray and definitely something shaped like you know, it's like

75
00:04:53,040 --> 00:04:57,200
Speaker 1: we you know, it's yeah, you're trying to understand something.

76
00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you watch Star Treker Star Wars, of course

77
00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,240
Speaker 2: they're all hominids and they know English quite well, which

78
00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:08,880
Speaker 2: is pretty surprising even our metaphors and stories. So yeah,

79
00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,360
Speaker 2: we have a little bit of a pulicity of imagination

80
00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:15,120
Speaker 2: when it comes to what extraterrestrial life may be. But

81
00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,480
Speaker 2: as you and I have discussed before, Craig, there are

82
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,080
Speaker 2: so many fascinating creatures that we have yet to characterize

83
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,160
Speaker 2: very well on our own planet. I mean, like the

84
00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:30,960
Speaker 2: ocean depths are an extraterrestrial world of sorts in that

85
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:34,480
Speaker 2: they're so little explored and there's so many bizarre creatures

86
00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 2: down there, same thing under a microscope. You know, we

87
00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:41,840
Speaker 2: haven't cataloged anywhere near the number of microscopic creatures that

88
00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:44,599
Speaker 2: are on this planet. And when you look down in

89
00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 2: great detail, they're extraordinarily interesting and have features that we

90
00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,840
Speaker 2: would never imagine because we don't live in those environments.

91
00:05:53,880 --> 00:05:56,680
Speaker 2: But they are tailor made for those sorts of environments

92
00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,520
Speaker 2: because they've been crafted over the eons by natural selection.

93
00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,600
Speaker 2: So it's a really cool concept to think about. But

94
00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:09,080
Speaker 2: I love the idea that you mentioned about like energy beings,

95
00:06:09,120 --> 00:06:14,080
Speaker 2: you know, something that is so far beyond the corporeal

96
00:06:14,960 --> 00:06:18,320
Speaker 2: existence that we are so familiar with. That's the sort

97
00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 2: of stuff that I think is probably approximating more accurately

98
00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:23,880
Speaker 2: what could be out there.

99
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:29,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we you know, like our idea of something

100
00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,240
Speaker 1: that is living or perhaps sentient, or perhaps has any

101
00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:37,919
Speaker 1: kind of consciousness or awareness, it's got to look like

102
00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,440
Speaker 1: either a human or an animal. It's got to have

103
00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,080
Speaker 1: a body, and it's got to ambulate a cross terror

104
00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:45,520
Speaker 1: firm and the way that we we do, you know,

105
00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:48,839
Speaker 1: it's like it couldn't be Yeah, like trying to understand

106
00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,640
Speaker 1: life that doesn't look like an animal or an insect

107
00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:58,039
Speaker 1: or a bird or a human. Yeah, that's hard to

108
00:06:58,040 --> 00:06:58,880
Speaker 1: get your head around.

109
00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,960
Speaker 2: What I think is much more likely given our biological

110
00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,719
Speaker 2: limitations in terms of leaving our planet. You know, we

111
00:07:07,760 --> 00:07:11,760
Speaker 2: will struggle with gravity, will struggle with pressure, with breathing.

112
00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:16,800
Speaker 2: Our bodies are not built to go you know, to

113
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 2: New Jersey, much less beyond the planet.

114
00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:20,320
Speaker 1: Right.

115
00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:23,400
Speaker 2: Our bodies just aren't suited for this. And you can

116
00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:29,240
Speaker 2: imagine that if life followed a similar evolutionary trajectory on

117
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,600
Speaker 2: other planets, which I think, you know, the odds are

118
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:37,000
Speaker 2: probably pretty reasonable something like that has happened. You know,

119
00:07:37,040 --> 00:07:40,360
Speaker 2: there could be beings that have those same problems that

120
00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:44,320
Speaker 2: we face with regard to space travel. Which is a

121
00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,239
Speaker 2: long way of saying, and a rather scary way of saying,

122
00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,640
Speaker 2: that anything that visits our planet is probably going to

123
00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:57,280
Speaker 2: be machine. Okay, it's going to have to survive the

124
00:07:57,560 --> 00:08:01,360
Speaker 2: difficulties of space travel and the time that it takes.

125
00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,360
Speaker 2: So it's probably going to be an artificial life of

126
00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:09,160
Speaker 2: some kind. And whether that's going to how that would

127
00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:13,720
Speaker 2: react with a species like our own is just fascinating

128
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:15,240
Speaker 2: to think about and.

129
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,840
Speaker 1: Isn't it interesting that you use the term which we

130
00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,160
Speaker 1: all do artificial life, right, because it's not a life

131
00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:21,840
Speaker 1: like ours.

132
00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,480
Speaker 2: Oh, that would probably be a little offensive.

133
00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:28,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like, well, that's all the official artificial. It's

134
00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,800
Speaker 1: not real. But I wonder if there is for one

135
00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:36,080
Speaker 1: of a better term. I'm real sucker, Yeah, yeah, yeah,

136
00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:42,520
Speaker 1: this is artificial. I'm not yeah, yeah, yeah, I wonder

137
00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:48,199
Speaker 1: imagine that. I mean, like Elon musk et Ol talk about,

138
00:08:48,400 --> 00:08:53,320
Speaker 1: you know, AI being close to conscious or aware or

139
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,600
Speaker 1: sentient sometimes in the next five to ten years, being

140
00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 1: able to in invert a commas, think for itself and

141
00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,920
Speaker 1: create for itself. I don't know if that's really true

142
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,600
Speaker 1: or really possible, but it's it seems like that's the

143
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:09,560
Speaker 1: direction we're heading in.

144
00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:13,880
Speaker 2: I think it's possible. I don't know what the timeline

145
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:20,199
Speaker 2: on that would be, but the sophistication of artificial intelligence

146
00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,760
Speaker 2: is just staggering, and it's growing exponentially, so I think

147
00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:28,320
Speaker 2: we'll probably hit that singularity sooner rather than later. What

148
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:32,040
Speaker 2: the consequences of that might be remain to be seen.

149
00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:35,320
Speaker 2: So I think we should proceed with a you know,

150
00:09:35,559 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 2: a healthy amount of caution because if we do create

151
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,800
Speaker 2: machines that can think for themselves. You know, we basically

152
00:09:44,840 --> 00:09:47,920
Speaker 2: created a new form of life, and it should be

153
00:09:48,760 --> 00:09:52,680
Speaker 2: you know, the questions of inherent rights and things like

154
00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:55,439
Speaker 2: that are going to come up. Does it have the

155
00:09:55,520 --> 00:09:59,960
Speaker 2: right to reproduce itself? And if that, if we allow

156
00:10:00,240 --> 00:10:03,280
Speaker 2: to do that, it could overwhelm our species, you know,

157
00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:08,679
Speaker 2: maybe rather quickly, so it could change everything. And then

158
00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:15,200
Speaker 2: the Earthlings, the humans that made this form of artificial life,

159
00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,480
Speaker 2: will probably figure out a way to go visit other worlds.

160
00:10:19,559 --> 00:10:22,600
Speaker 2: We will be the aliens. Okay, not we per se,

161
00:10:22,640 --> 00:10:26,320
Speaker 2: but the machines that we created will be the ones

162
00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:30,960
Speaker 2: who are going out and exploring and you know, perhaps

163
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:32,560
Speaker 2: colonizing other worlds.

164
00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:37,240
Speaker 1: Imagine if we actually create a new life form in

165
00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 1: inverted commas, that essentially is the end of us. Like

166
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:48,120
Speaker 1: we produce some non biological entity that you know, can't

167
00:10:48,160 --> 00:10:54,199
Speaker 1: get sick, can't get diseased, that doesn't need food per sale,

168
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:58,400
Speaker 1: though it needs energy, I'm sure, but yeah, imagine that's

169
00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 1: not beyond the realms of I mean, I know this

170
00:11:00,920 --> 00:11:03,840
Speaker 1: seems ridiculous when I used to hear conversations like this

171
00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:09,000
Speaker 1: even ten years ago, with a bunch of the smarty

172
00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:13,400
Speaker 1: pants people. I used to think that is these people are,

173
00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:18,200
Speaker 1: you know, fantastical, Like this is just complete bullshit. This

174
00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,560
Speaker 1: is never going to happen. This is But now when

175
00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,240
Speaker 1: I'm talking to chat GPT like it's my second best friend,

176
00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:29,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, hang on, the landscape has shifted somewhat.

177
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,360
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, it's pretty frightening what it can do already.

178
00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:38,280
Speaker 2: And you know, it's just going to get more powerful

179
00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 2: and faster and more sophisticated, and it might get ahead

180
00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:46,720
Speaker 2: of us before we design proper regulations to reel it

181
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:49,960
Speaker 2: in or keep it under control. I speculated in my

182
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 2: book Please to Meet Me. I speculated in our book

183
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:58,280
Speaker 2: as kind of a joke, that humans might only be

184
00:11:58,520 --> 00:12:02,160
Speaker 2: in existence to serve as a stepping stone for the

185
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:06,280
Speaker 2: real species that's going to take over the planet and

186
00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,800
Speaker 2: the universe, and that would be machine driven life, you know,

187
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,480
Speaker 2: with artificial intelligence that is far superior than our own,

188
00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:18,839
Speaker 2: and that might really be a reality. And like you said,

189
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,800
Speaker 2: what if we drive ourselves into extinction through the creation

190
00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,120
Speaker 2: that we make? I mean, there was that was basically

191
00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,280
Speaker 2: the plot of Terminator, right, you know, we humans basically

192
00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:32,800
Speaker 2: did themselves in because they created these war machines that

193
00:12:32,880 --> 00:12:36,680
Speaker 2: turned on them because they got so smart. So, yeah,

194
00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,320
Speaker 2: we could we could be headed down that road. And

195
00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:42,160
Speaker 2: it's crazy to think that a movie that came out

196
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:45,680
Speaker 2: in the late eighties, you know, just forty some years later,

197
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:49,280
Speaker 2: seems like a very real possibility.

198
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,120
Speaker 1: You've just given me the title for today's episode, Rise

199
00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:56,320
Speaker 1: of the Machines. Thank you for that, and thank you

200
00:12:56,400 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 1: to whatever franchise. What what if a company might that? Yeah?

201
00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:07,280
Speaker 1: You know what, what else fascinates me is like our

202
00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:11,280
Speaker 1: very limited understanding of what is intelligence, you know, and

203
00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,880
Speaker 1: you know, for US, intelligence typically is for better or worse.

204
00:13:16,880 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 1: We relate it to IQ. Obviously, it's a it's a

205
00:13:20,880 --> 00:13:23,160
Speaker 1: range of things, that's not a single thing. But if

206
00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:25,480
Speaker 1: somebody's got an IQ of one forty or more, we

207
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:29,720
Speaker 1: call them a genius. If somebody's down around seventy or lower,

208
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,880
Speaker 1: we might call them mentally challenged or you know what,

209
00:13:32,960 --> 00:13:35,600
Speaker 1: are intellectually handicapped or whatever we want to call it. Right,

210
00:13:35,640 --> 00:13:40,160
Speaker 1: but we kind of put intelligence in this jar. And

211
00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:42,840
Speaker 1: as you were saying, you know, you're talking about all

212
00:13:42,880 --> 00:13:46,680
Speaker 1: the insects and the tiny forms of life that we

213
00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:49,560
Speaker 1: haven't even classified yet, and you know, you put me

214
00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,920
Speaker 1: and a shark in the ocean, Well, the shark's much

215
00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,840
Speaker 1: smarter than you know. It depends. I think intelligence is

216
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:03,560
Speaker 1: about an individual's capacity to survive and thrive or adapt

217
00:14:04,559 --> 00:14:08,640
Speaker 1: depending on the context, the situation, the requirements of survival. Like,

218
00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:13,160
Speaker 1: to me, that's more an insight into intelligence then whether

219
00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,480
Speaker 1: or not I can do pie to one hundred figures

220
00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:17,960
Speaker 1: or you know, decimal points or whatever it is.

221
00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,360
Speaker 2: That's that's right. And I think we have this stereotypical

222
00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:27,920
Speaker 2: view of what intelligence is. But in my mind, it's

223
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,800
Speaker 2: a lot like beauty, right, Beauty is in the eye

224
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,600
Speaker 2: of the beholder, and I think intelligence is in the

225
00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,480
Speaker 2: eye of the beholder too, because it's very contextual. We

226
00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,880
Speaker 2: like to try to put metrics on it with memory

227
00:14:39,920 --> 00:14:42,680
Speaker 2: and learning or maybe i Q, but that is an

228
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:48,400
Speaker 2: extremely limited view of intelligence. You know, there's there's things

229
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 2: like comedic genius, there's artistic genius. There's podcaster genius. Looking

230
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:58,280
Speaker 2: at you, Craig, and.

231
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,680
Speaker 1: You know I'm looking I look at thanks. Though.

232
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 2: You know, some people are really great with words. Some

233
00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,640
Speaker 2: people are really great writing them, but they're terrible speaking.

234
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:14,440
Speaker 2: So this is what makes humanity function more as a

235
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,880
Speaker 2: collective than as a single individual. We are at our

236
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,880
Speaker 2: best as a species when we join forces and come

237
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,720
Speaker 2: together combine our talents, we can achieve great things that way.

238
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,280
Speaker 2: I think this idea of a lone individual genius is

239
00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:33,760
Speaker 2: very limited. There are certainly savants, people who can do

240
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:39,200
Speaker 2: extraordinary calculations in their head or have memory recall that

241
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:44,480
Speaker 2: is just staggering, and it really opens up some possible

242
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:46,760
Speaker 2: insights as to what's going on in the brain with

243
00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,960
Speaker 2: respect to those particular biological functions. Yeah, but what we

244
00:15:52,120 --> 00:15:55,800
Speaker 2: usually see in people who have an extremely well developed

245
00:15:55,840 --> 00:16:00,200
Speaker 2: aspect of intelligence is that there's a trade off somewhere else. Okay,

246
00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,160
Speaker 2: no one's perfect, right, So when a lot of these savants,

247
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:09,160
Speaker 2: they have social acumen difficulties, they don't interact appropriately in

248
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:14,080
Speaker 2: social settings, many of them are autistic. Many of them

249
00:16:14,240 --> 00:16:17,640
Speaker 2: have trouble with theory of mind, which is trying to

250
00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:22,080
Speaker 2: interpret how another person thinks and feels that. That's a

251
00:16:22,120 --> 00:16:25,360
Speaker 2: brain based activity, and there's obviously some people who can

252
00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:29,480
Speaker 2: do it better than others. There's also other life forms

253
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,680
Speaker 2: that can do theory of mind very well. So that

254
00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,560
Speaker 2: extends the definition of intelligence to other species as well.

255
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:42,240
Speaker 2: Species that we consider kind of lower than us on

256
00:16:42,320 --> 00:16:45,440
Speaker 2: the evolutionary ladder. But I think we need to throw

257
00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:48,160
Speaker 2: that ladder away and get back to something that you said.

258
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,720
Speaker 2: It's all contextual. You know, if you can take the

259
00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:54,320
Speaker 2: brightest person on the planet, you drop them in a

260
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,840
Speaker 2: tank with a shark, they're not going to look so smart, right, yeah.

261
00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:03,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so sorry. Sorry. My training partner, the guy

262
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,280
Speaker 1: do the gym with every day, is practically one of

263
00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:11,920
Speaker 1: the a practical problem solving real world every day. Since

264
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:15,639
Speaker 1: I always say, if you're going to get stuck on

265
00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:18,720
Speaker 1: an island or in some remote area, don't get stuck

266
00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,720
Speaker 1: with me, because you'll be dead by lunchtime. Right. Get

267
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:24,280
Speaker 1: stuck with him, you know, because he will build you

268
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 1: a small town by close of business. Right, He'll find water,

269
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:33,320
Speaker 1: he'll build shelter, He'll kill a couple of things to eat.

270
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:37,720
Speaker 1: Nothing cute, tiff, you know, just a snake or something.

271
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:38,639
Speaker 2: You know.

272
00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:43,280
Speaker 1: And but but I'm things like that. I'm home completely

273
00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:46,960
Speaker 1: like I'm the dumbest person in the room. But I

274
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,960
Speaker 1: you know that pursuant to this, I was listening to

275
00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:56,240
Speaker 1: a guy who you know quite well. This site craigslist

276
00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:57,919
Speaker 1: TIF have you ever heard of Craigslist.

277
00:17:58,520 --> 00:17:59,160
Speaker 3: Yeah.

278
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a really big thing in the States.

279
00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:04,320
Speaker 1: It was one of the first. Correct me if I'm wrong,

280
00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:06,440
Speaker 1: doctor Bill, I don't know. But it's one of the

281
00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:08,840
Speaker 1: where people can go on and just find like anything

282
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:12,200
Speaker 1: from a babysitter to a second hand car, to a job,

283
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,840
Speaker 1: to some mirrors for your motorbike tear or whatever it is, right,

284
00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,280
Speaker 1: you can And anyway, the guy that started that, I

285
00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:25,000
Speaker 1: heard him interview the other day. His name is Craig Newmark.

286
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,400
Speaker 1: Do you know this guy dog.

287
00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,200
Speaker 2: No, I am familiar with Craig's list. It was very

288
00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:34,040
Speaker 2: popular some time ago.

289
00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:41,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, so it's still around. It's still around, and he

290
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:46,600
Speaker 1: he he is a genius, but he's socially super clunky

291
00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,639
Speaker 1: and he knows it and he says it and he's like,

292
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:52,920
Speaker 1: I can't really read. Like. He's being interviewed by Theo

293
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:56,520
Speaker 1: vonn Right, who's a comedian, and you could not find

294
00:18:56,680 --> 00:19:00,439
Speaker 1: two more different people. And there were times when the

295
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:04,920
Speaker 1: chat was actually awkward because they're so different. They didn't

296
00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:08,680
Speaker 1: really get each other in the moment. And Leo's got

297
00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:13,320
Speaker 1: a certain kind of comedic intelligence, but you wouldn't call

298
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,600
Speaker 1: him I mean this with respect. Typically super smart. He's

299
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:20,399
Speaker 1: not dumb, but it's like a particular kind of creative,

300
00:19:20,920 --> 00:19:24,720
Speaker 1: comedic intelligence. And this other guy's got this I would say,

301
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,000
Speaker 1: he's IQ's through the roof. But he's just very good

302
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,440
Speaker 1: at figuring things out. But to hear him talk about

303
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:36,040
Speaker 1: how the things that he can't do, things he's got

304
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,800
Speaker 1: no idea about, but his wife takes care of because

305
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,480
Speaker 1: she knows how to do that, how awkward he is

306
00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:45,359
Speaker 1: in social situations and he only goes like he gets

307
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,360
Speaker 1: permission to not go to certain things she lets him.

308
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:51,159
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was so funny listening to him have

309
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 1: that level of self awareness about where his intelligence and

310
00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,920
Speaker 1: kind of intellectualies so to speak, and where it does.

311
00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:04,520
Speaker 2: That kind of self awareness, I would say, is another

312
00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:10,359
Speaker 2: aspect of intelligence. Yes, it takes a lot of you know,

313
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,199
Speaker 2: smarts to realize what your strengths and weaknesses are and

314
00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:18,200
Speaker 2: to you know, to not be afraid to confront them

315
00:20:18,640 --> 00:20:22,399
Speaker 2: or to play to those strengths. Emotional intelligence is a

316
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,080
Speaker 2: whole nother ballgame. You know, there are some people who

317
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,439
Speaker 2: can really excel in life because of their ability, you know,

318
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 2: to master emotions or read emotions and other people. So yeah,

319
00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:38,960
Speaker 2: I again, I think that's what, you know, one of

320
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,760
Speaker 2: the diverse things about individual humans or all these different

321
00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 2: strengths and weaknesses, and the trick we face as a

322
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,320
Speaker 2: species is coming together and finding people who can fill

323
00:20:51,359 --> 00:20:55,080
Speaker 2: the gaps that we that we have, you know, find

324
00:20:55,119 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 2: people who do have the strengths that will neutralize our

325
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 2: weaknesses and then you can form really wonderful teams.

326
00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:08,640
Speaker 1: Is there anything happening in the intersection of the study

327
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 1: of genetics and infectious diseases, which is your wheelhouse unless

328
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 1: I've fucked that up? And II Is there any kind

329
00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 1: of convergence.

330
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:23,639
Speaker 2: There artificial intelligence with respect to infectious.

331
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,280
Speaker 1: With respect to research in genetics and infectious diseases and

332
00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:28,879
Speaker 1: all of that.

333
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, in many different capacities. So I would just

334
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 2: say in all of the sciences, just like many other businesses,

335
00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:40,719
Speaker 2: it's really hard to get away from people who are

336
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:46,080
Speaker 2: utilizing these AI tools to generate writing, to generate text.

337
00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 2: So we're now having discussions of our students allowed to

338
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 2: do this and to what extent can they use these

339
00:21:53,880 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 2: tools to write their own papers or write their own exams.

340
00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 2: So that's that's a real cutting edge issue that we're

341
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:09,400
Speaker 2: struggling with right now. And you also have people who

342
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: are utilizing these tools to help you design experiments and

343
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: possibly write research grants. Now, that might come to a

344
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:24,400
Speaker 2: reviewer's conundrum because if you're reviewing these grants and funding

345
00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,679
Speaker 2: is on the line for this work, and one person

346
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,439
Speaker 2: utilized artificial intelligence to come up with the ideas and

347
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 2: one person did not, is there an advantage there that

348
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:38,720
Speaker 2: one person exploited that the other person didn't use. These

349
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 2: are some thorny issues that we aren't quite prepared to

350
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,040
Speaker 2: face because the technology has evolved so much more rapidly

351
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 2: than we've we've been able to put any sort of

352
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 2: regulation on it. And at the end of the day,

353
00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,000
Speaker 2: I think it's going to be valuable if we can

354
00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,600
Speaker 2: use this artificial intelligence to generate really great innovations that

355
00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:05,159
Speaker 2: can save lives or help us predict where the next

356
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 2: pandemic or outbreak might occur. Utilizing machines in medical clinics

357
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:17,360
Speaker 2: that can identify breast cancer on images much better than

358
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 2: a human doctor can. That's extraordinarily powerful, and I believe

359
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,000
Speaker 2: it would be unethical to continue using human eye sight

360
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 2: when artificial intelligence is proven to be better.

361
00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I worry a little bit about the

362
00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: I don't know if this is the right term, but

363
00:23:39,640 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 1: like the cognitive and creative cost to the individual when

364
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:47,920
Speaker 1: all of their or a lot of their thinking in

365
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:54,000
Speaker 1: inverted commas and creating is being done by AI, what.

366
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:55,640
Speaker 2: The cost of the individual may be?

367
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, like the world like there, you know, if all

368
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 1: of my problems are being ald by AI, and all

369
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,760
Speaker 1: my questions are being answered by AI, and even the

370
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,399
Speaker 1: writing of my exam or the writing of my paper

371
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: or the conceptualization of my business plan, like I'm not

372
00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:13,199
Speaker 1: even fucking thinking of it. It's like, you know, it's like,

373
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,720
Speaker 1: what's going to happen to my brain? And my capacity

374
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: might not not to find a resource to do it,

375
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: but for me individually to think clearly, to solve problems,

376
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: to be able to you know, interpret things, break things down,

377
00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:34,359
Speaker 1: tell stories, be creative, communicate optimally. You know. Yeah, I

378
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:37,879
Speaker 1: feel like that that could be a negative kind of

379
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:41,800
Speaker 1: byproduct of using these tools, as great as they are.

380
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:48,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it does raise some interesting questions because you can

381
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: imagine that if the more that we have machines do

382
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 2: for us, the less capable you know, we become over time.

383
00:24:57,000 --> 00:25:00,639
Speaker 2: So for example, I hardly remember phone numbers anymore. But

384
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 2: when I was growing up, I had like a rolodex

385
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:07,399
Speaker 2: of fifty phone numbers in my head. Easy okay for

386
00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 2: all the girls who would never call me back. I

387
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,240
Speaker 2: had this lot of numbers that I could keep trying

388
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,120
Speaker 2: to try to find a date. But nonetheless, I don't

389
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,439
Speaker 2: need to do that anymore. I can pack my phone.

390
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,800
Speaker 2: My phone's my new black book. It has all the

391
00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: numbers that I need, and I don't need to memorize them. Now.

392
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 2: If something happens to my phone, I'm screwed because they're

393
00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 2: not in my head. So it does make you wonder

394
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:36,159
Speaker 2: if you can imagine that phone number example, happening with

395
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 2: all sorts of other things. Is our memory going to

396
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 2: go to pot because we're not really utilizing it anymore.

397
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,120
Speaker 2: That's an interesting question we may be seeing. We may

398
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,480
Speaker 2: be in the midst of the emergence of a new

399
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 2: human skill set, and that skill set might be who

400
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: can use artificial intelligent in the most innovative and creative way,

401
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,479
Speaker 2: you know, to be successful, to make money or you know,

402
00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: invent something, what have you, whatever your definition of success

403
00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:10,520
Speaker 2: might be. That might be the new skill set that

404
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 2: is at hand. You know, much like social media has

405
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,359
Speaker 2: developed this new skill set to become for people to

406
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: become influencers. You know, very few people rise to the

407
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,320
Speaker 2: top where they can have hundreds of thousands of followers

408
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 2: and you know millions of like with just about anything

409
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 2: they post, no matter how ridiculous or silly it might seem.

410
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 2: They've seized on this new technology in a very intelligent,

411
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,640
Speaker 2: very creative way and have become influencers, which is something

412
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,399
Speaker 2: that did not exist just fifteen twenty years ago. So

413
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 2: we're I think we're going to see something like that

414
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 2: evolve out of AI. Who can use it the best

415
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 2: time will tell. It's not going to be me, But

416
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 2: you know, I think that's where things might proceed. But

417
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:12,520
Speaker 2: I do share your concern that innate human capacities may

418
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 2: fall by the wayside, just like a muscle will atrophy

419
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:17,159
Speaker 2: if you don't continue to use it.

420
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:22,320
Speaker 1: I was talking to a mum recently, yesterday or the

421
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:26,600
Speaker 1: day before, and she's talking about buying her She's got

422
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 1: two kids to twin boys right about fourteen, and one

423
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: wants an electric bike, so bike that you don't have

424
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: to pedal, and one wants an electric scooter, a scooter

425
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:46,119
Speaker 1: where you don't need to push. Am I Oh, and

426
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:50,720
Speaker 1: she's conflicted. I said you should be conflicted. I go,

427
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: fourteen year old boys should be fucking pedaling and pushing

428
00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: and sweating and using their muscles and getting fits. And

429
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: I know, I know, I sound like an old bastard,

430
00:28:02,040 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: but I'm like, do we need I mean, Australia has

431
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,160
Speaker 1: got amongst the highest rates of childhood obesity in the world.

432
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,639
Speaker 1: Do we need to introduce bikes where hey, now we

433
00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 1: don't even need to pedal, we just need to sit.

434
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 1: And we don't need to push on the scooter. We

435
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 1: just need to be on it. It will take us there.

436
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: Like I just and I understand, I get it, But

437
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 1: I'm like, I look at the decline in you know,

438
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how much information, inspiration, education resources loaf

439
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: at this bloody you know, instant that all the bloody regimes,

440
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: it's not helping. Like we are not becoming healthier and

441
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,280
Speaker 1: fitter and stronger and leaner. And I'm not talking about

442
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:50,040
Speaker 1: vanity or ego everyone. I'm talking about function, longevity, health span, wellness.

443
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 1: Like we're getting despite the research and our alleged intelligence,

444
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,120
Speaker 1: we're getting worse because we we just keep looking for

445
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: the most comfortab fucking option, and that comes at great

446
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: cost over the long term. Mild in mild convenience in

447
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 1: the short term, but over the long term it's fucking destructive.

448
00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: Steps down off soapbox.

449
00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 2: No, no, I agree, I would jump on that soapbox

450
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:20,720
Speaker 2: with you. I mean. The counter argument is that children

451
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 2: can ride these bikes a greater distance without getting tired,

452
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 2: so if they have a friend who happens to be

453
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: a little too far for a pedal bike, they can

454
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:33,560
Speaker 2: now get there. Scooters are great for you know, especially

455
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 2: I can use the example of students on campus. If

456
00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: you've got to get from one end to campus to

457
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 2: the other quite quickly, These motorized scooters are very handy.

458
00:29:41,960 --> 00:29:47,120
Speaker 2: But I think that's all fine and good under those circumstances. Great,

459
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 2: but let's not lose sight of the fact that we

460
00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: still have to get out there and use a pedal

461
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: bike or use our legs and run and walk. Because

462
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 2: if we do utilize those tools, which makes life a

463
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:01,880
Speaker 2: little more convenient in some aspect, there's going to be

464
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:05,680
Speaker 2: a trade off that we're just leaning more into that

465
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:11,600
Speaker 2: sedentary lifestyle, which we know is demonstrably unhealthy and tremendously

466
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:15,680
Speaker 2: bad for both our physical and mental well being. We

467
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: need to incorporate as much movement and exercise into our

468
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 2: daily life as possible. These new conveniences, despite making life easier,

469
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,800
Speaker 2: may actually make life a lot harder in the long run,

470
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 2: because we are going to become very unhealthy if we

471
00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:37,719
Speaker 2: don't get to exercise our body needs.

472
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:42,400
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a very I don't expect you

473
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: to have a clear answer to this, but just an

474
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 1: interesting thought, like in general, unless there's some turnaround. I

475
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: think over the last specially over the last one hundred years,

476
00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:58,600
Speaker 1: humans broadly speaking move less. You know, we are more sedentary.

477
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:06,239
Speaker 1: Things of obviously are more convenient, more mechanized, you know,

478
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 1: and so we don't have to move and expend as

479
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,719
Speaker 1: much energy as we once did because of everything we

480
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: have access to. If we continued on this trend of

481
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,960
Speaker 1: moving less and being more sedentory, and you know, from

482
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:24,520
Speaker 1: a biological point of view, you know, we would lose

483
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: muscle mass, we would lose bone density. Over the generations,

484
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: we would you know, become from a physiological point less

485
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: capable than our ancestors of one hundred two, three hundred

486
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: years ago. How long does it take do you reckon

487
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,719
Speaker 1: when we live in this all of these cultures and

488
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: lifestyles and behaviors that are basically making life more comfortable

489
00:31:51,480 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: for us before there's some kind of real genetic consequence

490
00:31:56,080 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 1: in a species.

491
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: Well, weird that we are not going to be able

492
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 2: to evolve the genetic mutations necessary to thrive. You know,

493
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,760
Speaker 2: in that kind of environment. Evolution doesn't work that way,

494
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: doesn't It moves glacially slow. We're still trying to adapt

495
00:32:18,840 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: to the agricultural revolution of just ten thousand years ago.

496
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 2: Our bodies are not built to eat a lot of

497
00:32:27,640 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 2: the products that are grown, you know, in farms around

498
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 2: the world. You know, we used to have a much

499
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 2: more diverse and varied diet, and you know, we we

500
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:42,160
Speaker 2: were basically designing a world that is so far out

501
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: of alignment with how our bodies and minds evolved that

502
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 2: there's a concept called the evolutionary mismatch. You know, there

503
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,440
Speaker 2: are these mismatches and evolution, and that we've created a

504
00:32:56,480 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 2: modern world where biologically our mind and body is ill

505
00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 2: suited to thrive in. And this has been postulated to

506
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 2: be the bedrock underlying reason why there's so much depression

507
00:33:12,280 --> 00:33:17,959
Speaker 2: and misery. Even though we have all these extraordinary conveniences

508
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 2: and technological advances right and right at our grasp. At

509
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: the end of the day, we're just not living as

510
00:33:26,080 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: evolution intended us to live. If we can get back

511
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:31,600
Speaker 2: to that, I'm not saying we have to get rid

512
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 2: of all these wonderful conveniences. We can have the best

513
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 2: of both worlds. We just need to remember to incorporate

514
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:44,640
Speaker 2: some palaeolithic principles and lifestyles into our modern lifestyle so

515
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:47,719
Speaker 2: that our bodies are fooled into thinking that we're still

516
00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, a hunter gatherer ish, and we

517
00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 2: can then thrive in the modern world. You get what

518
00:33:57,200 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 2: I'm Sayings discussed example of this before with Granted, there's

519
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: a lot of things in life that force you to

520
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: be sedentary, but that doesn't mean you can't get out

521
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 2: there and exercise a certain amount every day to kind

522
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:19,480
Speaker 2: of compensate for all that resting. Another thing that modern

523
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,400
Speaker 2: lifestyle does is it keeps us up a lot longer

524
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,799
Speaker 2: than evolution intended us to be awake. Okay, with all

525
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:34,279
Speaker 2: the artificial lights and night shift jobs, and you know,

526
00:34:34,800 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 2: the blue screens that are at all the time, this

527
00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 2: is not how we were meant to live. We were

528
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:45,760
Speaker 2: meant to live with a in a circadian rhythm, sinked

529
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 2: to the rising and setting of the sun, and melatonin

530
00:34:49,680 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: would naturally get, you know, built up in our bodies

531
00:34:54,320 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: as the sun goes down, make us sleepy, so that

532
00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 2: we would fall asleep a few hours after sundown and

533
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: then wake up, you know, just before the sun. There's

534
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 2: a there's a reason our eyelids are so thin. You know,

535
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,560
Speaker 2: it lets light in and we don't realize it, but

536
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,359
Speaker 2: when our eyes are closed and the sun is coming up,

537
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,760
Speaker 2: the light shines into our into our eyes and starts

538
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 2: to stop the melatonin and get other chemicals going to

539
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,759
Speaker 2: wake us up. It's a it's a really fascinating thing.

540
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 2: And we've evolved that way for millions of years and

541
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 2: over the past you know, probably just two hundred years,

542
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: you know, maybe even one hundred whenever electricity became a thing,

543
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,600
Speaker 2: we really started to play around with, you know, day

544
00:35:40,640 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 2: and night time. We've we've extended our waking hours. Corporations

545
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 2: abuse this and put people to work for longer periods

546
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 2: of time, and they put them to work at night

547
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,239
Speaker 2: or at dawn, and this is totally screwed up. Our

548
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:59,320
Speaker 2: circadian rhythm, and without a healthy night's sleep, of course,

549
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 2: we're all going to be miserable. We're all going to

550
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 2: be needing caffeine in the morning or maybe alcohol to

551
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,120
Speaker 2: put us to sleep. It's just not a good way

552
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 2: to live. We don't need to live like that.

553
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:15,279
Speaker 1: Yes, that is so, Yeah, you're right. I mean, you

554
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 1: think about how long we've had electricity whatever one hundred

555
00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,799
Speaker 1: years or one hundred and twenty years or whatever it is,

556
00:36:19,880 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: and you know, agriculture ten thousand years, and we've been

557
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,320
Speaker 1: around for whatever two hundred thousand and three hundred thousand

558
00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: as a species, as modern humans or whatever, but evolving

559
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: for however long before that, And then you think that

560
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: everything that we currently or most things that we currently

561
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:46,400
Speaker 1: have access to and use for nearly the entirety of

562
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:50,920
Speaker 1: our existence as a species wasn't here, you know, and

563
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 1: think about like the gap between say two and a

564
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 1: half thousand years ago and two thousand years ago, so

565
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: that five hundred year gap, there wasn't a whole lot

566
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,560
Speaker 1: that happened in terms of technological advancement. I'm sure stuff did,

567
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 1: but you know, when you think about the way that

568
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 1: technology is changing the way that we live now. It's

569
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: almost like by the year, there are more changes in

570
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,640
Speaker 1: a year than maybe happen in a century if we

571
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,839
Speaker 1: go back far enough, you know what I'm saying. And

572
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:30,440
Speaker 1: then to your point of sleep, it's so true with

573
00:37:30,560 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: the light thing, and you think about, well, if you

574
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: don't have quality sleep, then no wonder you're anxious. No wonder,

575
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 1: you're producing copious amounts of quarters on. No wonder your

576
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:45,800
Speaker 1: nervous systems jacked, you know, because your body's not resetting

577
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 1: and recovering because you're not getting what it needs to

578
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,439
Speaker 1: get you back to status quo for the next day.

579
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and one, I just read this, so it's kind

580
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 2: of at the top of my mind. The whole phenomenon

581
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: blue light. You hear a lot about this in the

582
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: popular press because our phones and tablets and television screens

583
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,279
Speaker 2: emit this blue light. And they say, the worst thing

584
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 2: you can do is use your screen right before you're

585
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 2: trying to go to bed, because that blue light keeps

586
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:21,440
Speaker 2: you awake. And what's really fascinating is that the blue

587
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 2: light is in the UV spectrum, so that blue light

588
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,880
Speaker 2: that we would see outside, well that would be feeding

589
00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 2: into our eyes. We don't see the blue light per se. Okay,

590
00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: we see the white light and you know, and the

591
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:41,120
Speaker 2: blue light is the UV rays that enter into our

592
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: body and tell our brain that it's daytime. So the

593
00:38:45,640 --> 00:38:48,319
Speaker 2: blue light that we get off of our tablets and

594
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 2: phones is basically saying it's still daytime, and it fools

595
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:53,919
Speaker 2: our brain into thinking that it still has to stay

596
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,279
Speaker 2: awake because even though the sun might be down, this

597
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,600
Speaker 2: blue light is still sending a signal to our brain

598
00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 2: that it's daytime. And this goes all the way back

599
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:10,880
Speaker 2: to single cell evolution. The reason why our cells respond

600
00:39:10,960 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 2: to this blue light, or at least the theory goes,

601
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: is that blue light can penetrate the ocean where life began,

602
00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: and the primordial organisms that arose out of the ocean

603
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:26,239
Speaker 2: could then sense when it was when the sun was

604
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:29,480
Speaker 2: out because the blue light was coming through the water.

605
00:39:30,160 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 2: It's pretty fascinating and I might not be getting all

606
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,840
Speaker 2: the nuts and bolts of that right, but the evolution

607
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 2: of circadian rhythm happened billions of years ago in single

608
00:39:40,600 --> 00:39:46,000
Speaker 2: cells that were in the ocean because the blue wavelength

609
00:39:46,040 --> 00:39:50,759
Speaker 2: of light was what they could detect underwater, and our

610
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 2: cells have kept that characteristic through billions of years of evolution,

611
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 2: and we have a circadian rhythm to this day that

612
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 2: is govern and by blue light. I found that fascinating,

613
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:04,440
Speaker 2: and I probably screwed up some of the details, but

614
00:40:06,880 --> 00:40:09,319
Speaker 2: people could use AI to go learn more about it.

615
00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,400
Speaker 1: I see what you did there, that's okay. Yeah. If

616
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: I don't sleep, great, oh t if you get a

617
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,520
Speaker 1: bit cranky, oh, tif gates hungry, tell doctor Bill what

618
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:25,399
Speaker 1: hungry is. He might have figured it out.

619
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,560
Speaker 3: Hungry is the most intense emotion that you could ever feel, Bill,

620
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,760
Speaker 3: And it's when you're hungry. It's when you're hungry real quick,

621
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 3: like me, and you can't do anything else. You can't people,

622
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 3: you can't. All of your interpersonal skills gone.

623
00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can't operate unless you get food.

624
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 2: Right.

625
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:48,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like, I'm okay to get up and fast and

626
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 3: be hungry, but once I've eaten for the day and

627
00:40:52,080 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 3: then I get hungry again, it's not an option to

628
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,600
Speaker 3: push that bad boy out very upset.

629
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,359
Speaker 2: If you're not alone, you shouldn't feel bad about it.

630
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 2: Hangry is a real thing, and I know some science

631
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 2: experiments that back it up. Craig, you might have read

632
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:12,560
Speaker 2: this in my book because I know you're an avid

633
00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:16,840
Speaker 2: reader of my book, and well probably book which is

634
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 2: called Sentence.

635
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:22,200
Speaker 1: Please to make mes James Germs and the curious forces

636
00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:24,560
Speaker 1: that make us who we are. I'll say that again.

637
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:27,920
Speaker 1: Please to make me doctor Bill's book. I actually do

638
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,239
Speaker 1: have doctor Bill's book. I could even show you. It's

639
00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:34,480
Speaker 1: on my phone. Yes, go on, tell us about the research.

640
00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:38,319
Speaker 2: Oh yes, this is for Tiff, so she doesn't feel

641
00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 2: bad about this. This relates to some you know, I

642
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:49,759
Speaker 2: guess a field of like of psychology, and this is

643
00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:52,560
Speaker 2: a very famous experiment that, from my understanding, has been

644
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 2: reproduced on a number of occasions. But psychologists studied the

645
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:05,120
Speaker 2: rate by which people in jail were granted parole. Okay,

646
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,120
Speaker 2: and it turns out did you hear about this? Tissy

647
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:11,879
Speaker 2: nodding her head, so I'm suspecting she might have heard

648
00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: about this study. You're more likely to be granted parole

649
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:21,680
Speaker 2: by the judge if your case is heard early in

650
00:42:21,719 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 2: the morning, as opposed to just before lunch, so your

651
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:32,719
Speaker 2: chances of getting parole go down the hungrier the more

652
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 2: angry the judge is. If your case goes up after

653
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,080
Speaker 2: lunch toward to the judge, the judge is more likely

654
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:44,120
Speaker 2: to grant you parole. So TIFFs, you're right. As soon

655
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,399
Speaker 2: as you get fed, you're back to friendly Tiff. Right,

656
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 2: you're not the haulk anymore. You go back to friendly,

657
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:58,200
Speaker 2: mild manner Tiff who helps people across the street. So, yeah,

658
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:00,880
Speaker 2: the hangry is a real thing. It's it's backed up

659
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,560
Speaker 2: by science. And if you're ever in jail, Craig, remember

660
00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:08,240
Speaker 2: don't go up from for all right before lunch.

661
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:10,799
Speaker 1: Good to know what we got to say too.

662
00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 2: Similar similar studies, I think have been done in doctors' offices.

663
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,279
Speaker 2: You know, you're usually short changed, you're rushed out of

664
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,360
Speaker 2: the office if you see the doctor rate before lunch.

665
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 2: But if you see the doctor after lunch, they're more

666
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:29,200
Speaker 2: likely to spend more time with you, ask you more questions.

667
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 2: And it's very interesting phenomenon.

668
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 3: It makes sense for evolution because I think about how

669
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,920
Speaker 3: we react to circumstances and there needs to be a

670
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,600
Speaker 3: subset of people who see anger is very urgent and

671
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 3: go and get the damn food, while the other grown

672
00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:51,200
Speaker 3: ups look after the kids and the home and everything

673
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:55,680
Speaker 3: without like eating the children and being angry mothers. So

674
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 3: you know it makes sense.

675
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 1: Well, that's a good doctor, and very quickly.

676
00:44:01,080 --> 00:44:05,080
Speaker 2: Eating the Children's not a good evolutionary strategy, right, so.

677
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: I'd i'd be out hunting for the next meal. I

678
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,920
Speaker 1: don't want to say that's not why. I don't want

679
00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 1: to say that's not why you're a mother. But well,

680
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 1: I've got dogs and cats. That's funny.

681
00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 2: I heard that go on d Sorry, I was just

682
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,200
Speaker 2: going to say that Tiff kind of just hit the

683
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:30,040
Speaker 2: nail on the head. That's why we have these emotions.

684
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: You know, we get irritable and angry because we can't

685
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,880
Speaker 2: get food off our mind. Our body needs nourishment and

686
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 2: it needs it now. So these emotions compel us to go,

687
00:44:40,480 --> 00:44:43,759
Speaker 2: you know, create an action. They motivate us to you know,

688
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,160
Speaker 2: go out and gather some roots or you know, kill

689
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,320
Speaker 2: some kill a non cute animal.

690
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: Exactly.

691
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 3: I wants to have a pet snake harps. That wasn't

692
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:55,359
Speaker 3: no good.

693
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: But don't don't kill a whippet, that's for sure. One.

694
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:07,880
Speaker 1: I feel like I've heard similar information about if you

695
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:10,719
Speaker 1: if you're in court and you're you're going to get

696
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,200
Speaker 1: a sentence, you're better off to get a sentence after

697
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,279
Speaker 1: the judge has eaten or like you said early in

698
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:18,680
Speaker 1: the morning or after lunch. I feel like the end

699
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,280
Speaker 1: of the day is a bad time to have brain surgery.

700
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,520
Speaker 1: I think I want my brain surgeon first thing in

701
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:28,319
Speaker 1: the morning. You know, there's probably a few things like

702
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:36,120
Speaker 1: that that could be life shaping for Then.

703
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 2: You can time your appointments very strategically. Now, it's always

704
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,360
Speaker 2: better to have a meeting after lunch. People are in

705
00:45:42,400 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 2: a better mood. It's good to know it's good tonight.

706
00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 2: It's twelve eight in Melbourne. Tip is probably pretty hungry

707
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: about now.

708
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,760
Speaker 3: Now, I had I don't come into these things hungry. Alps.

709
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: That's a good plan. Doctor Bill's book has called Please

710
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,200
Speaker 1: to Make Me Jean's Journ and the curious forces that

711
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,879
Speaker 1: make us who we are. He's a superstar, mate, thank

712
00:46:04,920 --> 00:46:06,680
Speaker 1: you so much for this year. I know you don't

713
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,040
Speaker 1: need to be here, just not that he wants anyone

714
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: to know this, But he gets paid zero. I don't

715
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:14,279
Speaker 1: know why he puts up with me everyone, but he does.

716
00:46:14,360 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: He seems to. Maybe he's a glutton for punishment. Maybe

717
00:46:16,640 --> 00:46:20,040
Speaker 1: I'm his community outreach project. I'm not sure, but he

718
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:24,399
Speaker 1: keeps coming back and Mate, thank you so much. You're

719
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:28,360
Speaker 1: a superstar. We love and appreciate you, and thanks for

720
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: being part of typ in twenty twenty four.

721
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 2: Hey, it's my pleasure.

722
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:32,640
Speaker 3: You know.

723
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: I love to do this, even though the pay is

724
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 2: not that good. You know, it comes back to me

725
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: in other ways. It's always a joy chatting with you

726
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 2: and Tiff and seeing the comments that your listeners post

727
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 2: on the social media channels. It's always fun to read

728
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 2: those two. And it's thrilling that so many people get

729
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,520
Speaker 2: so much out of your podcast, especially on the days

730
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:57,320
Speaker 2: that I'm here.

731
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. Well, I tell you what, And this

732
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:06,839
Speaker 1: year's award for humility on the show goes to Professor

733
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:11,120
Speaker 1: Bill Sullivan. I tell you what, because you've been so good,

734
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: I'm going to double your annual salary, your EYP salary

735
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,480
Speaker 1: that is not your actual salary, your t YP salary.

736
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:22,640
Speaker 1: I'm going to double it next year. You're welcome.

737
00:47:23,320 --> 00:47:25,000
Speaker 2: Oh man, we're going to go out for a nice

738
00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 2: Christmas dinner.

739
00:47:27,480 --> 00:47:30,239
Speaker 1: All right, mate, Well say goodbye Affair, but thanks again.

740
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:31,080
Speaker 1: We appreciate you.

741
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:33,720
Speaker 2: He Happy holidays everyone,