Speaker 1: Welcome to the mentor. I'm Mark Boris Sam Gordon. Well
Speaker 1: to the mentor, mate.
Speaker 2: Mark, Absolute pleasure, man, absolute pleasure.
Speaker 1: You're killing it. You're the founder of I was Property Scouted.
Speaker 1: We're going to talk about it. And you've got a
Speaker 1: great podcast called the Top one Percent Podcast and you're
Speaker 1: the host of it, and we'll talk about that as well.
Speaker 1: But I just want to get a little bit of
Speaker 1: background on if you don't mind. Of course, we're just
Speaker 1: talking about Gold Coast. Apparently you live up that way,
Speaker 1: but you're a Sydney boy. Yes, Warner Bread yeah, Worn
Speaker 1: Bread mate, Yeah, where'd you grow up?
Speaker 2: I grew up in a tiny little rabbit farm actually Indiandera,
Speaker 2: which is in the wall and Dilly just before win
Speaker 2: your Cariby so Dilly Shi, yes, yeah, okay Bargo there Yeah,
Speaker 2: not far from Bargain made famous by of course someone infamous.
Speaker 1: And I actually travel down that way quite a lot,
Speaker 1: and like every Friday for about maybe ten years. I
Speaker 1: used to do a lot of work, a lot of business.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of properties, used to develop in
Speaker 1: mos File and Barrel and that sort of surround eras
Speaker 1: and we owned like a big commercial premises in the
Speaker 1: middle of Barrel which is the Grand Hotel and pedistrian
Speaker 1: not sort of stuff and nicely love going down there
Speaker 1: was fantastic.
Speaker 2: Made I cut my teet developing in Mosvaw seven years.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so what period was that.
Speaker 2: That would have been the early twenty teens. So I
Speaker 2: bought my first one in two thousand and nine. I
Speaker 2: started developing twenty twelve.
Speaker 1: So you we're going to talk about property, maybe it's
Speaker 1: a good way to start. So you said you brought
Speaker 1: up in a rabbit farm. Yeah, actual rabbits. You're harvesting
Speaker 1: rabbits and selling rabbits.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So my boy was a mechanic by trade Sydney.
Speaker 2: Both both parents from Cayum and Us and George born
Speaker 2: and bred Sydney guys. Dad was a mechanic by trade,
Speaker 2: was a detective in the seventies and eighties in Sydney
Speaker 2: when it was pretty hectic, got out there when everything
Speaker 2: was sort of going crazy. And when I bought this
Speaker 2: little rabbit farm down down in Yandera and at the
Speaker 2: time and it was dead, like the thing was barely runningruggling,
Speaker 2: and he did a lot of research into Okay, how
Speaker 2: can I make this thing big and grow and all
Speaker 2: the rest of it and end up buying all these
Speaker 2: parts of a feed meal and build his own feed
Speaker 2: meal and then the rabbits for the rabbits. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: then he grew it into one of the largest in
Speaker 2: the Southern Hemisphere and sold it.
Speaker 1: Oh wow. Yeah, and you you went to school down
Speaker 1: They're all grew up there.
Speaker 2: I went to Bargo Primary, but I actually went to
Speaker 2: Westfield Sports up in Sydney. So to catch two trains
Speaker 2: in a bus two and a half hours to and
Speaker 2: from school every day.
Speaker 1: That's in your teens. Yeah, you're a sports person.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was a soccer player play play Socket. Yeah. So
Speaker 1: I mean you usually get selected for Westfield. Yes, you
Speaker 1: have to be pretty good at what you do, you
Speaker 1: craft yep. So they take cricketers and soccer players and
Speaker 1: footy players, et cetera. They're like some well known sports
Speaker 1: people come out of that school. How was school?
Speaker 2: School was good. I'm a very competitive person, so I
Speaker 2: loved that environment. It was something like three thousand kids
Speaker 2: trial for ten places per year, right, So I love
Speaker 2: that sort of thrill of a challenge and having to
Speaker 2: push yourself like that and made every day was we
Speaker 2: train every day, so especially when you're playing that elite level.
Speaker 2: As a teenage, we trained four or five days a
Speaker 2: week at school, and then we'd be training four days
Speaker 2: a week with Sydney, like playing in Sydney and then
Speaker 2: playing on the weekends as well, so.
Speaker 1: As in Sydney.
Speaker 2: Of no, so this is pre a league was round,
Speaker 2: but there's no a league youth at the time, so
Speaker 2: this is like paramount of my leader Sydney Olympic. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I played for Syna Olympics for two seasons there in
Speaker 2: my youth as well, So yeah, I just kind of
Speaker 2: played all over. So it was. I liked school for
Speaker 2: the sports side of things, but I was never I
Speaker 2: couldn't study just.
Speaker 1: A scholarly scholarly site, a scholarly since it wasn't your thing.
Speaker 1: You didn't go out to university or anything like that.
Speaker 1: So what do you just come out of school? High school? Robot? Yeah,
Speaker 1: dropped out as high school.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so I just turned sixteen, so heading into year eleven,
Speaker 2: first first month into year eleven, I couldn't do the workload,
Speaker 2: plus the massive commute to and from school every day
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: You mean when you say workload, you mean the training.
Speaker 2: School yeah, that they actually they actually like study workload
Speaker 2: right was too was too big for me sort of
Speaker 2: back then, and the training and everything as well. I
Speaker 2: had no interest in going to UNI. I never have.
Speaker 2: I was never someone that grew up I want to
Speaker 2: be a doctor or a lawyer or anything like that.
Speaker 2: I either wanted to be a soccer player or finally
Speaker 2: enough I wanted to do special forces, like one of
Speaker 2: the two things, just to like always be pushing myself
Speaker 2: to try and go to the top. So yeah, they
Speaker 2: were my two things that I really but obviously soccer
Speaker 2: was a big thing when I when I left school,
Speaker 2: So I left school. My dad pretty much said to me,
Speaker 2: you got three options. Go to another school and finish
Speaker 2: year eleven and twelve and get your thing. But geest
Speaker 2: somewhere nearby. You go get a trade straight away. But
Speaker 2: all my mates were my mates that had gone out.
Speaker 2: They're making like four dollars an hour for fifteen hours.
Speaker 2: So it was like terrible. I was like, I don't
Speaker 2: want to go out and make four bucks an hour.
Speaker 2: And then the other one was all you work on
Speaker 2: the farm and you start working tomorrow, and so I
Speaker 2: pretty much did that. So I used to do three
Speaker 2: days a week with the old boy on the farm,
Speaker 2: and then three days a week scaffolding around Sydney as well, and.
Speaker 1: You travel to sitting In from Bargo or from from
Speaker 1: where you live. So you pretty much left school at
Speaker 1: the beginning of year eleven, which is like, as you said, sixteen,
Speaker 1: did you give up your sport?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: So kept I kept playing. Yeah, I kept playing. I
Speaker 2: was actually saw of my first first grade contracts at
Speaker 2: sixteen years of age. I was playing for and Sutherland
Speaker 2: Sharks at the time, and they were like the powerhouse
Speaker 2: in Sydney at the time. There was a lot of
Speaker 2: money that came in. There was one big guy that
Speaker 2: he just loved he loved soccer and he'd rock up
Speaker 2: in his yellow lamp beginning. It was a funny thing
Speaker 2: because he'd rock up on his yellow lamb beginning. You
Speaker 2: get out walking, you have no idea. He just looked
Speaker 2: like some punter off the street, shorts, thongs, t shirt,
Speaker 2: like the most unassuming bloke he'd ever seen. And then
Speaker 2: he'd walk back out and jump back in his yellow
Speaker 2: limbo and take off. And so that it was a
Speaker 2: really really good club. First astro turf in the league
Speaker 2: as well. And it just brought some really good players
Speaker 2: to the thing, to the club, and it was I
Speaker 2: pretty much played through there. I was doing really well
Speaker 2: playing even though I signed signed effectively to the professional contract.
Speaker 2: I was playing in the Razzies as a sixteen seventeen
Speaker 2: year old. And then Yeah, had hip surgery at nineteen
Speaker 2: and just never really never really came back properly from it.
Speaker 1: And what made you think, Well, pretty immature at sixteen
Speaker 1: seventeen and eighty enough, you've been let's say, let's say
Speaker 1: you had your hip surgery what like around eighteen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I justin it was at the end of when
Speaker 2: I was eighteen, just about a hit nineteen I had
Speaker 2: the surgery. Nineteen.
Speaker 1: That's pretty long for a young bloke. Hip surgery. Well,
Speaker 1: obviously a sporting career at that stage is probably that's cactus.
Speaker 1: You're probably thinking, I'm not the sporting career is pretty
Speaker 1: much over, or I'm going to have a long recovery
Speaker 1: from his hip surgery. When did you start looking at
Speaker 1: buying and selling property or getting involved in property at least?
Speaker 1: And what was it? Think?
Speaker 2: What was the thing?
Speaker 1: Because I mean, you've got a big property portfolio for
Speaker 1: a young guy. What was it that excited you about
Speaker 1: the property environment and what made you think that, yes,
Speaker 1: you could get involved in the proper environment. And by
Speaker 1: the way, you probably didn't even have a job, you
Speaker 1: have a cash flow at that stage.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I was working on the farm, right, so
Speaker 2: like I was kind of that. Yeah, and that was
Speaker 2: buba all between that and the and the and the scaffolding.
Speaker 2: I was making about seven it was seven fifty a week,
Speaker 2: I remember exactly. It was thirty nine grand a year,
Speaker 2: seven to fifty a week, gross five eighty four a
Speaker 2: week in that so not very much, not enough to
Speaker 2: service definitely, well finally enough. It actually was just right
Speaker 2: because my living expenses were really really low. But to
Speaker 2: answer your first question around like what got me thinking
Speaker 2: about it was? And I know just recently you had
Speaker 2: Harry Triggerboff on the show and I listened to it.
Speaker 1: Mate.
Speaker 2: It was a great episode, man, I loved it. And
Speaker 2: Harry triggerbov was was the one that tricked it in
Speaker 2: my mind because I remember hearing about Harry. This would
Speaker 2: have been fifteen years ago. I bought my first one,
Speaker 2: I just over fifteen years ago, and I remember hearing
Speaker 2: about him owning something like three thousand apartments. I'm like,
Speaker 2: how does some bloke own three thousand apartments? He built them,
Speaker 2: I know, right, and like the strategy around what he
Speaker 2: did with it. And so the more that I looked
Speaker 2: into it, like, I was just like, and I would
Speaker 2: have been seventeen eighteen at the time when I heard
Speaker 2: about this, and I just started researching, and like when
Speaker 2: I kind of kind of get fixated on something, I
Speaker 2: get like a little bit obsessed with it, right, and
Speaker 2: really want to find out as much as I can
Speaker 2: about it. So I started researching him. And then the
Speaker 2: more I looked into it, and the more I started
Speaker 2: reading about it, the more that like, property was either
Speaker 2: this thing that people built their wealth in or they
Speaker 2: made their money somewhere else maybe whether it's it's an
Speaker 2: athlete or a business own or whatever, and then they
Speaker 2: park their wealth in it. Yeah, they make their wealth
Speaker 2: in it or they store their wealth in it. And
Speaker 2: I was like, even at that age, I realized, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: this must be a decent asset class to be chasing.
Speaker 2: And then I was actually saving for my first car,
Speaker 2: and the old boy kept talking me out of us.
Speaker 2: I wanted tour to Super. I grew up in the
Speaker 2: Fast and Furious era, the two thousands. I went to
Speaker 2: score on Fairfield, so they're bloody everywhere. And yeah, man,
Speaker 2: I my old boy kept going to these inspections with
Speaker 2: me and talking me out of them. That's a piece
Speaker 2: of shit, that's a biece of shit.
Speaker 1: Just kept like house inspection of the current spections, current inspection,
Speaker 1: current special.
Speaker 2: So he kept talking me out of the cars, right
Speaker 2: and then offendedly, one day we're driving back from this
Speaker 2: current inspection, he goes, mate, what he is by property?
Speaker 2: Stop looking all these ship boxes, just go go buy
Speaker 2: a property. And then I I remember.
Speaker 1: How much would you have saved though at that stage?
Speaker 2: How about thirty grand? Saved about ten grand a year?
Speaker 1: So okay, so you got thirty grand and your dad's
Speaker 1: saying to you, maybe you should invest it in property.
Speaker 1: So let's say you put ten percent into the property,
Speaker 1: so you're going to borrow another thirty at three hundred.
Speaker 2: Yep, it did.
Speaker 1: Just at that point, let's say you decided yes, yeah,
Speaker 1: good idea. Dad. What did you do next? Like, in
Speaker 1: terms of did you go and get a pre approval
Speaker 1: next from somebody? I?
Speaker 2: Did you?
Speaker 1: Did you know how much you could borrow? Did you
Speaker 1: sort of do some calculations or I did.
Speaker 2: I just went to the max. So, like it was,
Speaker 2: probably wasn't as easy to find those numbers now. And
Speaker 2: you remember rate City back in the day, they'd compare them.
Speaker 2: I don't know if they's even still around now right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, owns it.
Speaker 2: Okay, there you go. So, man, I just used to
Speaker 2: go on Raat City and have a look at the
Speaker 2: different But how did you find my parents?
Speaker 1: They said, look at rat City, Yeah, because.
Speaker 2: I think they just done a big REFI in their
Speaker 2: house right on there to get their loans and stuff down.
Speaker 2: So so yeah, they just said go look at Raat City.
Speaker 2: Well I just knew that that's what they were doing,
Speaker 2: went and figured it out, punched it in. I think
Speaker 2: it was one Direct, which was a subsidiary of ain Z.
Speaker 2: They had the best rate and then they kind of
Speaker 2: had the best serviceability at the time for me as well.
Speaker 2: So I could buy up to two hundred and seventy
Speaker 2: five grand with ninety percent land on it. I could
Speaker 2: borrow hundred and fifty more insurance.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, had to cough up a bit. So so
Speaker 1: basically what you did is you worked out pretty quickly.
Speaker 1: You know once you find a comparison website. There's lots
Speaker 1: of them out there. Rate City is one of them.
Speaker 1: Still exists today, by the way, but that's just one
Speaker 1: example of them. You got and all the lenders say,
Speaker 1: tell us how much you earn, tell us how sort
Speaker 1: of deposit you've got, and they'll give you what servicing
Speaker 1: ability you have. They'll say, your servicing ability is alliwsure
Speaker 1: to borrow two seventy fargument seet. Then you've got to
Speaker 1: go back and sort of work out, well to seventy
Speaker 1: plus my thirty three hundred stamp duty, bit of more insurance.
Speaker 1: I have to find a bit more dough What did
Speaker 1: you do?
Speaker 2: Then? This was my lucky part was at the time.
Speaker 2: It was when they were aggressively trying to stimulate the market.
Speaker 2: The government was which you were talking about just after
Speaker 2: the GFCS. It is two thousand and nine, yeah, okay,
Speaker 2: And and mate said there there was no stamp duty
Speaker 2: like six hundred or something. Yep, no stand duty and
Speaker 2: a ten and a half thousand dollars grant first first
Speaker 2: home and grand first time grant. So it used to
Speaker 2: be seven and then they doubled it to fourteen fourteen
Speaker 2: I got the one in the middle, which was a
Speaker 2: ten and a half.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, so that helped me. How did you know
Speaker 1: about that?
Speaker 2: I was just researching it. I was just trying to
Speaker 2: find everything.
Speaker 1: So, but were you were an aver read of their
Speaker 1: thin review? I can't imagine you were definitely not, But
Speaker 1: would I don't know. I can't remember back then, like
Speaker 1: in terms of two thousand and nine, but I guess
Speaker 1: eachnet was probably as popular as it is today. I mean,
Speaker 1: and therefore you just type in buying property, where'd you go?
Speaker 1: Did you get some advice?
Speaker 2: So the only advice I ever got really from my parents'
Speaker 2: side of things were just my old boy making that
Speaker 2: comment you should buy a house instead of instead of
Speaker 2: buying a card. When I started looking into it, I
Speaker 2: started getting really really obsessed with it, like I was
Speaker 2: kind of saying before, and just trying to find everything
Speaker 2: I could add about it. And I think like I
Speaker 2: went looking for I don't know if someone had mentioned
Speaker 2: to me around grants. Maybe someone had mentioned to me
Speaker 2: something around the grand side of things. This has gone
Speaker 2: back over fifteen years, was two thousand and nine, so
Speaker 2: I can't remember exactly what led me down that route,
Speaker 2: but I remember I didn't actually have quite enough of
Speaker 2: a deposit except for the grants that I was going
Speaker 2: to get as well, I pretty much would have been
Speaker 2: fully exhausting the bank account. So the ten and a
Speaker 2: half grand was big to me, and obviously they no
Speaker 2: stampty allowed it to make it happen as well.
Speaker 1: In those days, there's no stampture as long as you're
Speaker 1: brought under a certain price. So you were buying something
Speaker 1: probably a six or one hundred thousand and six fifty,
Speaker 1: I think it was around that time. It was, so
Speaker 1: you knew that you could buy something out of six fifty.
Speaker 1: So all of a sudden, you know how much you
Speaker 1: can borrow. Yes, you know that you've got enough cash
Speaker 1: because of all the grants and all the other things
Speaker 1: that existed out there. You knew that you had to
Speaker 1: buy something under a certain price because otherwise you don't
Speaker 1: qualify for the grand. So that's sort of pretty much
Speaker 1: triangulated for you where you should buy yah or where
Speaker 1: are the possibilities that you can buy it. You could
Speaker 1: buy something in Adelaid. You buy something Melbourne, parts of Melbourne, Victoria,
Speaker 1: some parts of you said, well, parts of Queensland and
Speaker 1: parts of Northern Territory, Darwin, How did you then bring
Speaker 1: it into finding the exact area that we should buy
Speaker 1: and what type of thing you should buy? We should
Speaker 1: buy an apartment, a terrorist or whatever.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is to me. At the time, I was
Speaker 2: looking to stay close to home. I didn't know it.
Speaker 2: I didn't know it well enough. I look it Campbelltown
Speaker 2: because I was kind of halfway between Campbelltown and the
Speaker 2: Highlands right smack bang in the middle, but then to
Speaker 2: the east as well, you have Woollongong, and so I
Speaker 2: looked at Woollongong and I was like, well, out of
Speaker 2: the two, most people see Cambletown, it's a bit of
Speaker 2: a shitter in reality, right, whereas Woollongong, well relative perhaps, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's amazing in Campbelltown. I spent a lot of time
Speaker 2: there when when I was younger. But I looked at
Speaker 2: the two and okay, maybe restaurants, but I think what
Speaker 2: I could afford at that time in Campbelltown wasn't the
Speaker 2: sort of place that you and I would would probably
Speaker 2: want to live.
Speaker 1: And were you thinking about living in it?
Speaker 2: Yes? I had to for the grants.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, I had to for the grants, and
Speaker 3: so I kind of like looked at more at Woollongong,
Speaker 3: being like, well, there's a big university there, so there's
Speaker 3: always that rental demand.
Speaker 2: I knew it was still works a bit of a
Speaker 2: mining precinct sort.
Speaker 1: Of slicity, so people had jobs.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not maybe at the level of what
Speaker 2: it is now, Like obviously now it's quite seen. It's
Speaker 2: quite a nice, a nice place to live. At the time,
Speaker 2: it's still probably a bit more run down than the
Speaker 2: other but.
Speaker 1: That's always good actually because if it's going to get
Speaker 1: better and you write it up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so that was my idea. And so I
Speaker 2: was looking for something a bit run down that I
Speaker 2: could renovate. And that was pretty much the thing. What
Speaker 2: could I afford what looks a bit run down that
Speaker 2: I could renovate. And I was always able to sniff
Speaker 2: out a discount and so and Stiff had a deal,
Speaker 2: and I was I was just always wanted to get
Speaker 2: something for good value. Even now I got to I'll
Speaker 2: go to Woollies and if I look at the two
Speaker 2: peanut butters on salm, so we're going to buy the
Speaker 2: one on sale, just because I like, I like getting
Speaker 2: something half priced, right, So and I was exactly the
Speaker 2: same when I was younger, just trying to get trying
Speaker 2: to get something that was a good deal. And yeah,
Speaker 2: that's pretty much it led me. There a lot of
Speaker 2: opportunity there effectively at that time as well.
Speaker 1: And yeah, so you did you decide on whether and
Speaker 1: does someone give you advice should you buy an apartment
Speaker 1: or a house.
Speaker 2: Or couldn't afford a house down there? Couldn't afford it?
Speaker 1: So good an apartment, So that's interesting. So how important
Speaker 1: is it that you could add value to it? So
Speaker 1: you know in your decision making process you just said
Speaker 1: something I could renovate. What do you look at when
Speaker 1: you're buying a property in terms of particularly when you've
Speaker 1: put your first property and a lot of people you know,
Speaker 1: trying to buy the first property that proposition I must
Speaker 1: be able to add value to this. In other words,
Speaker 1: you don't want to go and buy is it correct
Speaker 1: from your point of view you want to go and
Speaker 1: buy a place set if you pay three hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty grand for a fraguments sake which probably ran about
Speaker 1: what you paid, or three hundred thousand dollars, you want
Speaker 1: to go buy a the department that's completely deck, brand new,
Speaker 1: new kitchen, new bathroom, new carpet, new walls, new everything's
Speaker 1: new looks beautiful, But you can't need value to it.
Speaker 1: Is that an important factor for you? Add value? In
Speaker 1: other words? And where are the areas you want to
Speaker 1: add value? Do you want to add paint the joint
Speaker 1: or do you want to to the kitchen in the bathroom?
Speaker 1: What was your thought process?
Speaker 2: Maye back then, I probably was was I definitely obviously
Speaker 2: wasn't as hyper focused on it as I am now
Speaker 2: and from the results side of things. But I want,
Speaker 2: I just want to saying run down that I knew
Speaker 2: I could sort of bring back to life.
Speaker 1: To me, where did you get that idea from?
Speaker 2: I don't know, a man just renovating, probably watching shows
Speaker 2: all that sort of things, or wanting wanting to have
Speaker 2: a crack at that side of things. And I think
Speaker 2: the big thing man, I was making next to nothing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so I thought I can make money out of property.
Speaker 2: I probably didn't realize quite the extent of how much
Speaker 2: you can make out of it if you do this incorrectly.
Speaker 2: But I just knew in my head, if I get
Speaker 2: if I get something that's at a good price, if
Speaker 2: I can get a discount and something and then force
Speaker 2: value through a renovation. It was going to be better than.
Speaker 1: I had him into a discount. So it was advertised
Speaker 1: for price.
Speaker 2: Cheaper than like what was comparable around.
Speaker 1: It, right, okay, And that's because it was run down.
Speaker 2: Even just like sell the circumstance. And that was a
Speaker 2: big thing with this one that I actually bought. To
Speaker 2: kind of jump to the actual property that I bought.
Speaker 2: I remember I looked at one in the same block
Speaker 2: as it, and it was straight right behind Crown Street
Speaker 2: more in Wollongong there right in the guts of the
Speaker 2: of the city. And there was one that I looked
Speaker 2: at and ended up selling for like three it was
Speaker 2: three ten or three fifteen or something like that, and
Speaker 2: it was you walked in, there was like eight mattresses
Speaker 2: on the floor. It was just packed out with UNI students.
Speaker 2: It was grubby as it was very average. And looked
Speaker 2: at that one sold at like three ten, three fifteen
Speaker 2: whatever it was. The one I bought ended up it
Speaker 2: was actually a level up. Paid two seventy five for
Speaker 2: it and it was actually it wasn't in too bad
Speaker 2: nick and need a new carpets needed to repaint. But
Speaker 2: other than that, it was actually a pretty good nick
Speaker 2: whereas the other one was really grubbing that sold for
Speaker 2: like thirty forty grand more so. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So in other words, the original border because you sawt
Speaker 1: of arbitrarges the value you knew that something worse. It's
Speaker 1: sold for more and more than the asking price of
Speaker 1: upstairs and middlely that sort of encourage you to buy
Speaker 1: that one at a lower price. And when you choose
Speaker 1: the location of where you want to buy, and I'm
Speaker 1: talking about Wollongong, by the way, how important are men?
Speaker 1: It is so? And I was just only talking to
Speaker 1: someone about just before you came in. He was saying,
Speaker 1: for people in the twenties, what are the sort of
Speaker 1: things they should be looking for? When did they go
Speaker 1: to buy? And I said, we'll buy in regional areas
Speaker 1: like you did in Wollongong. Probably not so much originally now,
Speaker 1: but it was then I said, not all original areas
Speaker 1: are equal, so the regional areas that I'd always be
Speaker 1: looking for. That I always advise young people to buy
Speaker 1: in places where there's airports or transport access near the water.
Speaker 1: And it doesn't have to be the waterfront, but you
Speaker 1: can go, you can drive to the beach, hospitals, schools.
Speaker 1: How much of those things are do you think are
Speaker 1: important in terms of you being successfully very first purchase.
Speaker 2: With that one, I probably put a pretty big emphasis
Speaker 2: on it. So it was walking distance to obviously the
Speaker 2: city was right behind the city center, it was walking
Speaker 2: distance to the hospitals, it was one and a half
Speaker 2: ks to the beach, all that sort of thing. Amenities
Speaker 2: on this one were really strong, and I thought it
Speaker 2: was a really important thing. The only like, probably what
Speaker 2: I would throw in on this as a caveat is
Speaker 2: a lot of people get very hung up these days
Speaker 2: on the amenity side of things, and like, how much
Speaker 2: does it have From that perspective, Now, you need, especially
Speaker 2: if you're going regional, you need things. If it's an
Speaker 2: aging population, you need things like good schools, good transport,
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff as well. But these days I
Speaker 2: actually don't place anywhere here as much as an emphasis
Speaker 2: on it as I used to do back in the day.
Speaker 1: So what would you do today? I mean, if you're
Speaker 1: your you know, your twenty year old self back then, yeah,
Speaker 1: but you're you're putting your current head on your shoulders.
Speaker 1: What would you have done, would you've done exactly the
Speaker 1: same thing.
Speaker 2: I would have gone on board in Campbelltown. I would
Speaker 2: have gone on board the stuff that I was scared
Speaker 2: to buy back.
Speaker 1: Then, Now tell me why that's that's interesting.
Speaker 2: So Wollongong kicked off about a year after Sydney and
Speaker 2: Campbelltown itself, right and in the twenty thirteen boom when
Speaker 2: Sydney started, both the Southern Highlands being like moss Fower,
Speaker 2: Barrel and Woollongong Newcastle, all the regional outskirts kicked off
Speaker 2: around about a year later.
Speaker 1: Now what do you think that? Is it? Because it
Speaker 1: was they were cheaper, then they kicked off later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know that they kicked off. In fact, just they
Speaker 1: did kick off at at all? Is it because like
Speaker 1: people from Sydney said, it is too expensive in Sydney
Speaker 1: therefore I got to go to these other areas where
Speaker 1: and then they started supporting those other areas like like
Speaker 1: like Barrel.
Speaker 2: I think it's a ripple effect kind of like a
Speaker 2: flow on, right, So exactly like that, like people especially
Speaker 2: that younger or they're not as wealthy sort of demographic,
Speaker 2: if they can't afford to buy in their local area,
Speaker 2: it starts to will use the term run. They wouldn't
Speaker 2: probaly see it like that. But let's say it goes
Speaker 2: from a three hundred thousand of the house to four
Speaker 2: hundred thousand dollars. If there are all of a sudden
Speaker 2: like well, I can't act ford this side of things,
Speaker 2: so I'll go out there. But the same as investors. Right, So,
Speaker 2: if investors are buying that sort of product and then
Speaker 2: the return dips because they've had that growth, and this
Speaker 2: is a cool thing about now, they could pull the
Speaker 2: equity out of that deal. So so refinance the equity
Speaker 2: back out of it, and then go and buy in
Speaker 2: that next ring of where it looks affordable, the.
Speaker 1: Next adjacent suburb or whatever it might be, or it
Speaker 1: might be adjacent regional area.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, like this example here, so and yeah, so
Speaker 2: that's what I definitely would have if I could wind
Speaker 2: back now, one hundred percent would have go on a
Speaker 2: board in those areas instead.
Speaker 1: Let's go back to Campbelltown. Yeah, why do you think
Speaker 1: Campbelltown would have been a better investment, say today relative
Speaker 1: I mean, it's always good look back in hindsight, but
Speaker 1: why would Cambelton be better place today relative to Woollongong back.
Speaker 2: Then Sydney had better drivers as a whole.
Speaker 1: And Campbelltown and Sydney, Yeah yeah, yeah, So what you're
Speaker 1: saying is include Cambeltown in the greatest Sydney.
Speaker 2: And so that's how I'd probably look at it, right,
Speaker 2: Like Woollongong and the Southern Highlands being like an hour
Speaker 2: further out, Sydney had all the drivers to get it
Speaker 2: to kick off and start running, right, And so because
Speaker 2: that was there and Campbelltown was within that basin, Kemptum
Speaker 2: was always going to start earlier. And so as an investor,
Speaker 2: what you always want to do is like, where's going
Speaker 2: to go next? Like it's all well and good to go,
Speaker 2: let's say in that sort of timeframe, even buying there
Speaker 2: at that time in Sydney, it's like, is there anywhere
Speaker 2: else that maybe could have had a growth run in
Speaker 2: twenty nine and twenty ten rather than when it started
Speaker 2: in twenty thirteen. If there was, I would have preferred
Speaker 2: to buy in those locations well, like earlier, because for example, yeah, well,
Speaker 2: I mean Paramata started the same sort of time, but
Speaker 2: even other regional areas or different cities all these sorts
Speaker 2: of things as well. So it's kind of having a
Speaker 2: look at it from a much broader perspective of what's
Speaker 2: going to give you a better return now as opposed
Speaker 2: to if something's potentially going to pop off in three
Speaker 2: or four years. And looking back in hindsight, it's just
Speaker 2: because Sydney the drivers were coming together for Sydney a
Speaker 2: lot quicker at that time frame. It was still obviously
Speaker 2: a little bit off starting it's run, but yeah, that
Speaker 2: would have been Kempbeltown would have been a better Kempletown
Speaker 2: or Paramatta or anywhere in that more direct Sydney basin.
Speaker 2: Because it started it's run twelve months earlier, you could
Speaker 2: have pulled the equity out of it and then gone
Speaker 2: and built another phase of a portfolio in either Woollongong
Speaker 2: or Highlands or Newcastle, those sort of further out. That
Speaker 2: took another another year before they started kicking.
Speaker 1: Well, I've got to get a break. We want to
Speaker 1: come back out. I actually you said something really important.
Speaker 1: You keep mentioning the drivers. I do want to talk
Speaker 1: about the drive, what the drivers are in terms of
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you've got a big portfolio. How many
Speaker 1: problemy you've got now one hundred and eighteen, one hundred
Speaker 1: and eighteen, So that was your very first that was
Speaker 1: the first. Yeah, he still got it.
Speaker 2: The first time I bought for some hosold.
Speaker 1: First one you bought, the first one is old. But
Speaker 1: you've got one hundred and eighty in properties across Are
Speaker 1: they mostly in Sydney or across Australia?
Speaker 2: Six five, five or six different states? Now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, I want to talk about why you're diversification,
Speaker 1: but we'll come back and talk about in the second half.
Speaker 1: But when I come back from the break, I want
Speaker 1: to do. I want you to explain to our audience
Speaker 1: what you considered to be the drivers. What does that
Speaker 1: you know, we're talking about population growth, wages, incomes. What
Speaker 1: are we talking about we go to the break. When
Speaker 1: it comes straight back, I'm actually back from the break
Speaker 1: and I'm here with Sam. We've been talking about and he's,
Speaker 1: by the way, founder of Australian Property Scout. We'll talk
Speaker 1: about what that is in a second. Would sort of
Speaker 1: in a deep dive in terms of his portfolio and
Speaker 1: is also the host of the Top one percent podcast,
Speaker 1: which is a very heavy, high trending podcast and I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if it's beating straight talk, but it's close.
Speaker 1: But and we're talking about right, really we're talking about
Speaker 1: is your property portfolio of one hundred and eighty properties,
Speaker 1: but we are talking about your very first property. And
Speaker 1: you said that maybe in hindsight, if you look backwards,
Speaker 1: you would have preferred to buy in Campbelltown because Campbelltown
Speaker 1: was part of the greatest Sydney Sydney area. And then
Speaker 1: you kept talking about drivers. What do you mean by drivers?
Speaker 1: We're talking about drivers of growth, drivers of demand. Yes,
Speaker 1: what are you talking about when you talk about drivers?
Speaker 2: So the biggest thing that we look at, there's two
Speaker 2: ways of looking at You've got your macros and your micros.
Speaker 2: So your macros are you things.
Speaker 1: Like your population macro drivers are micro drivers?
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, so yeah, exactly exactly that. So from
Speaker 2: a macro perspective, you've got population growth, you've got big
Speaker 2: projects coming into areas pretty much what's happening from an economic,
Speaker 2: big standpoint that's going to have a direct impact on
Speaker 2: that location. One of the other big ones that most
Speaker 2: people can I.
Speaker 1: Just stop there. So when you talk about if someone's
Speaker 1: trying to identify macro drivers, and let's say call the
Speaker 1: population growth, where do they find out what the population
Speaker 1: of growth is in Sydney and perhaps Campbelltown. Where do
Speaker 1: they find where did you? Where do you and your
Speaker 1: team find this stuff out?
Speaker 2: A lot of the time that stuff, for one, is
Speaker 2: comes from a forecasting perspective as well. It comes from
Speaker 2: like build numbers and what's what's being forecasts for an
Speaker 2: inventory pipeline of what's actually being built and brought into
Speaker 2: an area. You can you can track it in real
Speaker 2: time because the only thing as well is a lot
Speaker 2: of the time it's lagged data. So you want to
Speaker 2: have a look like quarterly. You want to be tracking
Speaker 2: that quarterly and annually in terms of where's getting that
Speaker 2: actual inflow.
Speaker 1: So we're looking at Strain bio statistic too. About core logic.
Speaker 2: ABS is a big one. Poor logic is another. There's
Speaker 2: a lot of.
Speaker 1: Different So just so the mystop because people don't know
Speaker 1: these places. So the ABS is ABS dot dot dot A.
Speaker 1: You Strain Buer Statistics and you just look through their
Speaker 1: menu and you can see the chapters whatever they cover off.
Speaker 1: But like one of the things building approvals, blah blah blah,
Speaker 1: population growth, they do it by region. They by state, country, state, city,
Speaker 1: region and you know, you can actually get this information
Speaker 1: out of correct and it gets it gets printed once
Speaker 1: every at least once every couple of months, and so
Speaker 1: you're on top of that stuff. So and that that's free.
Speaker 1: He's very easy to read. Actually, do you subscribe to
Speaker 1: call logic as well?
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yes, obviously as a business perspective too logic.
Speaker 1: But they're back in those days. I mean, there's proper tech.
Speaker 1: There's a few different things around, different ones around, but
Speaker 1: core logic is one of the good ones. There's a
Speaker 1: proper tech core logic, and what's the other one, I
Speaker 1: can't think what it's called now for the moment, and
Speaker 1: research is sqms correct. That's a good one. Actually, the
Speaker 1: guy behind that's bloody fantastic. He's like his great talent
Speaker 1: is actually good to listen to. So but you subscribe
Speaker 1: to one of those, which makes sense. But you can
Speaker 1: actually get free stuff out of cool Logic as well.
Speaker 1: By the way, But so you and you triangulated all
Speaker 1: this information. You're always looking at the stuff. Where's the
Speaker 1: population growing, you know, and government bringing in Like in Sydney,
Speaker 1: for example, we just must have had of that million
Speaker 1: people that came a million half people coming Australia, probably
Speaker 1: three hundred thousand must be living in Sydney. And what
Speaker 1: do you think is the reason why people come to Sydney?
Speaker 1: Is it as simple as this fundamentals, that's where the
Speaker 1: jobs are.
Speaker 2: It's where people know as well. So when you see
Speaker 2: so much from an immigration perspective, you have so much
Speaker 2: where people they know, cities like Sydney and Melbourne. And
Speaker 2: so the two biggest splits with Sydney and Melbourne that
Speaker 2: came in from that that massive population growth that we had.
Speaker 2: From that perspective, what I found really interesting was actually
Speaker 2: the flow and effect to the other states of internal migration.
Speaker 2: So the amount of inflow that went to Perth and
Speaker 2: went to Adelaide even from an example, but Perth and Brisbane,
Speaker 2: southeas Queensland were massive during that period as well. We
Speaker 2: actually found a lot of Aussies moved on. So was
Speaker 2: that internal migration.
Speaker 1: So Australians moving, Yeah, but people because a lot of
Speaker 1: people move out of Victoria the whole series of reasons,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people moved out in New South
Speaker 1: Wales up to Queensland, and but then a lot of
Speaker 1: people moved austraight as well. Yeah, so and this stuff
Speaker 1: st digital stuff. You've just got to track it to
Speaker 1: get a sense of where the demand's going to be.
Speaker 2: You need to be continually on top of it. So
Speaker 2: it's ever changing, it's always it's always changing from that perspective,
Speaker 2: and you just need to be on top of it.
Speaker 2: And the project side of things, well, the other thing
Speaker 2: we're alluding to a lot of the time, when you
Speaker 2: know projects are coming into an area, especially big projects.
Speaker 1: What do you mean by projects?
Speaker 2: Infrastructure projects? A lot of airport, Yeah, airport tunnels, big
Speaker 2: plants being built, all these different sorts of things. Shopping centers, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: all that's what's depending on the magnitude. So shopping center
Speaker 2: is a big They're not like, you know, a ten
Speaker 2: ten billion dollar tunnel system or the Inland rail Link,
Speaker 2: you know, which was a multi tens of billions dollars projects.
Speaker 1: As so, what are you trying to do. Let's say,
Speaker 1: for example, the airport. So we're looking at the airport,
Speaker 1: the new airport out at West Sydneydris Creek, Yeah, Badger's Creek.
Speaker 1: Like you know, it's pretty obvious there's billions and billions
Speaker 1: are being spent there, invested there by governments and various
Speaker 1: other people. And you've got to have your whole lot
Speaker 1: of infrastructure to support it, roads, shops, factories, housing, what
Speaker 1: have your trains, et cetera. Do you take a long
Speaker 1: view on it because these things can take five ten
Speaker 1: years to get completed. Do you start hunting around the area,
Speaker 1: so saying, well, well let's go buy five houses or four
Speaker 1: hours or two hours or one? How do you bunch
Speaker 1: you in your face? What do you do with it?
Speaker 2: Here's the other thing that you've got to overlay. And
Speaker 2: this is the thing, so it's not just having like
Speaker 2: a couple of boxes ticked. You need to stack the deck.
Speaker 2: And that's where I find you really win is when
Speaker 2: you stack the deck and you understand this thing really intimately.
Speaker 2: The other massive thing from a macro perspective that I
Speaker 2: like to really understand is affordability. So the big issue
Speaker 2: with Badgery's Creek Airport having a huge influence on that
Speaker 2: area and whether it actually will or won't have a
Speaker 2: massive influence on it, it's the actually affordability ratios. So
Speaker 2: what's the median income to house price ratios in the area.
Speaker 1: How do you find the medium income.
Speaker 2: Media income same places.
Speaker 1: We're not talking about medium where he said mediam, which
Speaker 1: is the I A in strain bureau ABS dot dot.
Speaker 1: You can find out it's pretty simple. You look up
Speaker 1: real wages or whatever the case may be, the incomes
Speaker 1: and they'll actually tell you by by district, by suburb.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yes, So you can literally drill down to that
Speaker 2: point as well. And what you can do is you
Speaker 2: effectively can create your own heat mapping. Is what we do.
Speaker 2: We create heat mapping around affordability ratios in different areas.
Speaker 1: So affordability ratio being that the asset to income ratio.
Speaker 1: That's a very important ratio which in economics used across
Speaker 1: all categories of asset classes, many asset classes, shares, et cetera.
Speaker 1: But what you're saying is what is the what is
Speaker 1: the asset relative to the income. So if the assets
Speaker 1: of average average powers or a bit of real estate,
Speaker 1: there is five and grand and if the income the
Speaker 1: average income is one hundred thousand, so the ratio is
Speaker 1: five to one. And so what are you looking for
Speaker 1: in terms of racio? What sort of ratio do you
Speaker 1: look in? Because I mean, there are some rules of
Speaker 1: thumb out there in terms of ascid income ratios, what
Speaker 1: are you looking for?
Speaker 2: So the biggest thing is really understanding within this. So
Speaker 2: the one issue that we're in Australia right now is
Speaker 2: a lot of Australia's had growth because purely because of
Speaker 2: COVID is one piece where most of the country did
Speaker 2: have a spur to growth. And then the other side
Speaker 2: of things is you also have to take the actual
Speaker 2: city into account as well. So metropolitans like Sydney and
Speaker 2: Melbourne they have a bit of a different waiting compared
Speaker 2: to a Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth because the desirability to
Speaker 2: live in a city like that, and again the regions
Speaker 2: would be then another step lower beyond that too. So
Speaker 2: it's understanding it more intimately than just putting a specific
Speaker 2: number on it, if that makes sense. So we've drilled
Speaker 2: down a lot deeper on it from that end to
Speaker 2: then make a decision around it too. But if you
Speaker 2: look at like most of Sydney, even out there in
Speaker 2: Western Sydney, most areas are probably sitting at a ten
Speaker 2: to fourteen x of income to house price ratio is crazy, right,
Speaker 2: like absolutely regid.
Speaker 1: So let me stop you there for a seconds. So
Speaker 1: because generally speaking, the rule of thumb is if the
Speaker 1: asset value to income, that's a bit of misleading. The
Speaker 1: average asset versus the average income specifically for the area
Speaker 1: is more than six times its six hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: property for one hundred thousand dollars income, generally speaking, is
Speaker 1: starting to get into the hefty like a bit too
Speaker 1: heavily price. It's a bit too expensive if you get
Speaker 1: under seven or six. Usually that's sort of saying, well,
Speaker 1: you know, those people can afford to pay more, And
Speaker 1: as a result, you would expect the house price over
Speaker 1: time to adjust upwards.
Speaker 2: It has the ability to increase.
Speaker 1: It might not, but it has the ability. It has
Speaker 1: potential for us side. So the ascid DO income ratio
Speaker 1: is really good income, a really good ratio to know about.
Speaker 1: But by the way, you're right in Sydney, a lot
Speaker 1: of these ratios like a ten to one crazy So
Speaker 1: can I just because on that, and I've often wondered
Speaker 1: about this. Do you go and say, well, you know what,
Speaker 1: it's ten to one, let's say in Campbelltown, but the
Speaker 1: next suburb out, which might be let's call it Leppington,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Do you know what is an except
Speaker 1: whatever that's called Leppington. Just fragument's sake, Let's say it's
Speaker 1: in Leppington. It's the income was actually higher than higher
Speaker 1: than the asset price. Does it all of a sudden
Speaker 1: sort of suggest you that people from Leppington my start
Speaker 1: buying up market and getting into Campbelltown because let's assume
Speaker 1: me Campeton's better than Limpington for a moment. Do you
Speaker 1: see that happening? Do you like? In other words, the
Speaker 1: normal people live in the area can't afford really live
Speaker 1: there anymore, so they all move out to a lower area,
Speaker 1: and then other people move back. Then other move people
Speaker 1: move from a more expensive area currently back down to Campbelltown.
Speaker 1: In other words, it's sort of like the backfilling all
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 2: Is that?
Speaker 1: Does that happen?
Speaker 2: It's it's that's the ripple of facts.
Speaker 1: You might not have be abt Ford, limb Bondai, but
Speaker 1: your on your income, but you might be afforded to
Speaker 1: buying Clovelly. And then because you can now afford to
Speaker 1: buying Clovellly you couldn't before you could before, but you
Speaker 1: can't afford to live in Bondi, the house price in
Speaker 1: Colvellly go up, which pushes a whole lot of people
Speaker 1: in Clverly who are currently they're out and they say, okay,
Speaker 1: I can't live in Cludelium, or maybe I'm going to
Speaker 1: move from Rubra. But what you're trying to well, I
Speaker 1: think what you're saying is I'll buy and Ruber day one.
Speaker 2: That's it. And so that is the exact effect of
Speaker 2: a ripple effect, right, So what you're saying there of
Speaker 2: like it pushes the next bracket out, their next bracket out,
Speaker 2: their next bracket out. All of a sudden, these areas
Speaker 2: start to gentrify that are further out because people that
Speaker 2: have decent money but they're getting pushed out of those
Speaker 2: areas get pushed further and further out. The other thing
Speaker 2: that we see a lot of the time though, is
Speaker 2: like what happens what the ability of your Leppington example
Speaker 2: before example, is it just has the ability to actually
Speaker 2: increase now because there is affordability in the tank there.
Speaker 2: Just because someone has the ability to move doesn't mean
Speaker 2: they always want to move. Oh, you might find people
Speaker 2: that are a bit further out that are trying to
Speaker 2: jump into that area as well. But what we find
Speaker 2: is as a market starts to take off. You'll see
Speaker 2: extremely rapid periods of growth. So if you look at
Speaker 2: if you even look at there's a child out there.
Speaker 2: I can't remember who it's from. It might be prop
Speaker 2: track at someone. And it's over the last thirty years
Speaker 2: of the housing market, from ninety ninety four or whatever
Speaker 2: to twenty twenty four. We had a summit last year
Speaker 2: ran through this whole piece. And I think the market's
Speaker 2: always in this like linear up sorry, this upward trajectory
Speaker 2: over time. They talk about six seven percent perandum average
Speaker 2: annual growth. It doesn't work like that almost always.
Speaker 1: Because beverages are taken over teny period exactly. They might
Speaker 1: have had a twenty to ten and it mightivated one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And so often, like take Sydney for example, everyone
Speaker 2: thinks like Sydney's king, it always keeps growing. From twenty
Speaker 2: three to twenty thirteen, Sydney did nothing, if anything, it
Speaker 2: actually came back. But then in twenty thirteen twenty seventy
Speaker 2: in the market more than doubled. So it's looking for
Speaker 2: like where are the opportunities and where where because in
Speaker 2: that timeframe of debt of no growth, that's where the
Speaker 2: affordability ratio start to increase again, incomes increase in that timeframe,
Speaker 2: Areas change, you know, gentrification comes through, places become nice
Speaker 2: to live, all the rest of the sort of thing. So
Speaker 2: affordability actually increases. If anything. A lot of the time,
Speaker 2: the house bruces will come up, come back a bit,
Speaker 2: other areas, other cities, other regional areas, all the rest
Speaker 2: of the stuff. They have their runs. It comes back
Speaker 2: to being a point where that is now affordable and
Speaker 2: where we really what we really want to do is
Speaker 2: we want to stack the deck, Like I said before,
Speaker 2: stack the deck with okay, sweet, what else is there?
Speaker 2: Is it just affordable or is there also you know
Speaker 2: a couple of big projects coming through. Is there were
Speaker 2: also strong population growth that's going to come off the
Speaker 2: back of that. Has there been strong gentrification? You know,
Speaker 2: all these different things that start stacking up to then
Speaker 2: go okay, Well, when is supply and demands start to
Speaker 2: balance out and go back in our way in our
Speaker 2: favor of supply being limited and then demand being strong,
Speaker 2: and you want to try and time it before that happens,
Speaker 2: because that's when you can get the best buyers. But
Speaker 2: when your time that run. A beautiful case in point
Speaker 2: of this is when we went really heavily into Perth
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty and twenty twenty one. The markets are
Speaker 2: running properly at the end of twenty twenty one, and
Speaker 2: everything stacked up there everywhere. Every other location had been
Speaker 2: having a crazy run during COVID, but because they'd shut
Speaker 2: their borders, wa hadn't really been doing anything. Perth hadn't
Speaker 2: grown in fourteen years. And I was looking at everything
Speaker 2: there and house is the houseprius income ratios was sitting
Speaker 2: at like two or three to one, Like it was cheap, crazy,
Speaker 2: cheap man. We're buying five minutes from the beach, forty
Speaker 2: minutes from the city for three hundred grand for a
Speaker 2: full bed, two bath, Like that closed for three hundred thousand,
Speaker 2: five minutes to beach. And like when I got over there,
Speaker 2: I finally got myself over there, we're able to get
Speaker 2: on the ground look at all these properties, cause I like,
Speaker 2: there must be something wrong with it. It just wasn't
Speaker 2: making sense right. I went over there, got on the ground,
Speaker 2: started speaking to everyone. We're already seeing rents increasing, vacancies
Speaker 2: were dropping through the floor. There's this big hit in
Speaker 2: migration that was starting to happen.
Speaker 1: And from these states by the way, Yeah, migration people.
Speaker 2: Trying to get out and get over there as well.
Speaker 2: And then yeah, man, it popped at the end of
Speaker 2: twenty twenty one, so everything sort of stacked right, and
Speaker 2: I think that was a big things. It's stuck in
Speaker 2: the deck because it's not just looking for like one
Speaker 2: or two things, it's how many of these metrics align
Speaker 2: for it to then have the run that they're anticipating.
Speaker 1: And you keep saying we So I presume the Australian
Speaker 1: Property Scout yes, is a group of people as a business.
Speaker 2: Yes, Yeah, So I've obviously got a decent team on that.
Speaker 2: So I've got a research team within within APS as well.
Speaker 2: And then when I say we talk about I'm kind
Speaker 2: of referencing our clients to be honest with that guy,
Speaker 2: because that's where we'rebviously.
Speaker 1: So what does that do? What does a train probably
Speaker 1: scout do? I mean your advice agency and so you
Speaker 1: you you buy as a by's agency, you buy a
Speaker 1: property for or people come to you to go find
Speaker 1: me probably Perth, Gon find me a property Annade later
Speaker 1: wherever it is. Yeah, well I want to buy a property.
Speaker 1: Where do you advise? That's what is that? What they say?
Speaker 2: Pretty much, Yeah, pretty much. They come through and say, yeah,
Speaker 2: we want to buy a property, we want to build
Speaker 2: a portfolio. We're all about building portfolios as well. So
Speaker 2: one of the businesses I built off the side of
Speaker 2: this was School of Property, and so pretty much everything
Speaker 2: I learned over the last fifteen years in a course
Speaker 2: in terms of how to scale a portfolio. I do
Speaker 2: monthly Q and A webinars and those things ago for
Speaker 2: about three hours. I do buy annual summits, so we
Speaker 2: get like six seven hour to seven hundred people at
Speaker 2: the Star Convention Center in November last year. We pretty
Speaker 2: much just do all the training, you know, teaching people
Speaker 2: how to scale the portfolio, what things are changing, how
Speaker 2: to apply these even strategies to scale your portfolio. Because
Speaker 2: you can't retire off one or two properties like you
Speaker 2: have to build a portfolio. It actually gets a retirement
Speaker 2: and effectively the combination of the two. The education course
Speaker 2: shows them how to do it. We strategize it then
Speaker 2: for clients, and then we go out and execute from
Speaker 2: the buying process well, and we do things like this
Speaker 2: like time markets before they.
Speaker 1: Go yeah, so you're a sort of bit of a
Speaker 1: full package. So you hold a seminar, you'll big instructions
Speaker 1: and explain to people your experiences and sort of sort
Speaker 1: of advice as to how to not advice, but sharing
Speaker 1: with people how you build a portfolio. Then if they
Speaker 1: want to build a portfolio and they say, look, here's
Speaker 1: a million bucks or I have the capacity to spend
Speaker 1: a million dollars on might have one hundred and I
Speaker 1: can borrow nine hundred, do you pre qualify them in
Speaker 1: terms of borrowing or do they do it themselves?
Speaker 2: I mean when people come on, When people come on
Speaker 2: the books, we obviously we do a strategy session with them. First,
Speaker 2: throw them out to what's one of our brokers to
Speaker 2: get them assessed, assess what we can actually do with
Speaker 2: them from that perspective. They have to qualify effectively from
Speaker 2: a capital position initially because they need to have a
Speaker 2: certain amount of cash to be able to or equity
Speaker 2: to be able to buy our property. And then once
Speaker 2: once they have that, we pretty much strategize the whole
Speaker 2: thing from there.
Speaker 1: Where to buy and what to do with the existing portfolio.
Speaker 1: And do you talk to them about things like land tax,
Speaker 1: stamp duty, because you know, like if you bought all,
Speaker 1: if you bought all your proberties in New South Wales,
Speaker 1: you'd be playing paying crazy amount of land tax. Do
Speaker 1: you do you talk about lantax in a diversification through
Speaker 1: states you know might allow you to not avoid landtax
Speaker 1: but just not heavy to have as heavy as lantax burden.
Speaker 2: Yeah, minimizing it for sure, y. Yeah, So the strategy
Speaker 2: takes everything into account. Structures is a huge piece of
Speaker 2: that as well. So New South I was is probably
Speaker 2: the most exposed was in Victoria. The probably the two
Speaker 2: most exposed states for lantax in Victoria. Yeah at the moment,
Speaker 2: since it changes last year.
Speaker 1: And what are you seeing Victoria as a result of
Speaker 1: this new land tax imposition that they brought in this
Speaker 1: in other words, they've lowered the threshold. So it's I
Speaker 1: think fifty grand or something, and you paid lantax for
Speaker 1: every dollar after fifty thousand on everything other than your
Speaker 1: own occupy your home. What are you finding is the
Speaker 1: response of owners and or buyers into Victoria.
Speaker 2: I think the thing to throw into the account with
Speaker 2: Victoria is the affordability is actually crazy down there at
Speaker 2: the moment. Good so, yes, very very strong, and so
Speaker 2: I think it's that, so it's it's almost equal sized
Speaker 2: population in Sydney, but it's the six most affordable capital
Speaker 2: city in Australia. It didn't have the same sort of
Speaker 2: runs that a lot of the other capitals had and
Speaker 2: regionals had during COVID, so it's become very affordable. That's
Speaker 2: kept a floor under it. I think if it was
Speaker 2: the same sort of unaffordable city levels of say Sydney,
Speaker 2: mat I think the market would have been decimated. They
Speaker 2: would have been blood on the streets for sure. But
Speaker 2: because the market was so cheap as it was, and
Speaker 2: it was almost at this almost like a bottoming piece
Speaker 2: for where it had been over the last seven years.
Speaker 2: Since it's been finished in twenty eighteen, and it has
Speaker 2: been on a little bit of a slide since then too.
Speaker 2: It's still affordable, so that's holding up the market. Vacancy
Speaker 2: rates are tightening. Yields have always been average down there,
Speaker 2: but they're kind of evening out, so it's it's yeah,
Speaker 2: it's not as crazy as I thought it would be
Speaker 2: as well. I thought there'd be some serious blood on
Speaker 2: the streets last year. It did. There were some areas
Speaker 2: that went down by fifteen percent, but they've all sort
Speaker 2: of bottomed, and it's it's very much in a bottom
Speaker 2: phase at the moment. Isn't dropping any further. It's gonna
Speaker 2: be interesting to kind of watch out.
Speaker 1: They've got plenty of jobs down there though. That's the issue.
Speaker 1: If people work down there and they're going to get
Speaker 1: paid down the Yeah, and if employees want people to
Speaker 1: work for them, they're going to have to pay them
Speaker 1: enough that they can afford living now. Otherwise they're not
Speaker 1: going to live there, which means employees have got to
Speaker 1: pay more. Perhaps you've got to pay more relatively speaking,
Speaker 1: can I just I do? And you've had an amazing
Speaker 1: right rise in terms of your own personal portfolio. You're
Speaker 1: building this business it's advise agent. But I do want
Speaker 1: to talk before we close it. I do want to
Speaker 1: talk about the Top one Percent podcast. What you're the host,
Speaker 1: but it's your show, of course. What is the concept
Speaker 1: behind the Top one Percent podcast?
Speaker 2: It's actually very similar to straight talk. I've always been
Speaker 2: a big fan of straight talk, made always be usually
Speaker 2: I'll followed you for Nate since you saw a Wizard
Speaker 2: for half a billiyone half a Billy back in two
Speaker 2: thousand and four. Mate, I've followed you since then as
Speaker 2: a young fellow two.
Speaker 1: Thousand and four, that's twenty years ago, twenty one years ago,
Speaker 1: hundred percent.
Speaker 2: And man, I think I wanted to do that or
Speaker 2: something very similar to that in my own way as well.
Speaker 2: And I really wanted to get inside the minds of athletes,
Speaker 2: business owners, entrepreneurs, people at the highest level in their
Speaker 2: fields and really sort of unpack and see, for one,
Speaker 2: what their journeys were like at the very very start,
Speaker 2: what they've achieved to day, pretty much the learnings and
Speaker 2: everything they went through as well, and pretty much is unpackable.
Speaker 1: What you learn, what maybe some of the things you
Speaker 1: have learned, What are there some observations at least perhaps
Speaker 1: not learned, but some observations that you can come out of.
Speaker 1: You must have a lot of episodes by now. So
Speaker 1: while we are there, are there any common denominators?
Speaker 2: Almost always the common denominator is hardship early, so really, yes,
Speaker 2: so many people they go through. We had, like one
Speaker 2: of the first episodes I did was Macro and Mike
Speaker 2: the protein guy came over from came over from England
Speaker 2: and just like it took him eight years to get
Speaker 2: this thing off the ground. But also that hustle piece
Speaker 2: for eight years, non stop, going through doing it again
Speaker 2: and again and again, constantly improving, refining, never dropping that
Speaker 2: quality piece. I think that's so often I see these guys,
Speaker 2: especially in business, that dominate, and they keep dominating. It's
Speaker 2: that piece. Look at a meal jurisdic Man. Last year
Speaker 2: they did three billion dollars worth of sales at energy,
Speaker 2: you real estate in Brisy and you know, unpacking these
Speaker 2: guys journeys Man and so many others as well that
Speaker 2: I've done so far. Specifically the guys in business, they
Speaker 2: do everything they can to not drop quality. And if
Speaker 2: I look at the biggest thing, the biggest reason we've
Speaker 2: had so much success to date and what we've really done.
Speaker 2: I spend no money on advertising, probably the biggest buys
Speaker 2: ency in Australia. I spend no money exactly. It's all referrals,
Speaker 2: all doing a great job by someone, and you give
Speaker 2: someone your word on something that you're trying to do,
Speaker 2: and you follow through on that and you take ownership
Speaker 2: if something goes wrong, and you help people as much
Speaker 2: as you can. And so much of my competition, and
Speaker 2: when I look at other people's competition as well, when
Speaker 2: something happens, they bury their head in the sand, or
Speaker 2: they block the number, they block the hemails, these sorts
Speaker 2: of things instead of like facing things head on trying
Speaker 2: to fix it. And I think what I found is
Speaker 2: like watching these guys so often and how interviewing so
Speaker 2: many of these guys as well guys and girls. It's
Speaker 2: it's seeing that resilience, resilience through everything, like pushing through.
Speaker 2: If you can't, if you don't keep pushing through, you
Speaker 2: don't have that grit determination perseverance to keep pushing through.
Speaker 2: From that perspective, you're not going to get the result, right,
Speaker 2: it's not going to come.
Speaker 1: But as you develop that grit, that resilience perseverance.
Speaker 2: It's when things come up and hit you, you get
Speaker 2: up and you keep going on, you keep going forward.
Speaker 2: And so there's two there's two outcomes. There's two things
Speaker 2: you can do on that you can you can lay
Speaker 2: down the ground and not do anything, or you get
Speaker 2: up and you keep pushing forward. I'm sure you've had
Speaker 2: a ridiculous amount all the businesses you had over the years,
Speaker 2: and they still keep coming and looking You're still going
Speaker 2: strong man, you know, And I think like I can
Speaker 2: only imagine the strength that you would have internally of
Speaker 2: something popping up. These days, it would be very hard
Speaker 2: for many things. I think to rock someone like you
Speaker 2: with the amount of stuff you've been through. And I
Speaker 2: look at all these guys and girls, man, and they
Speaker 2: all go through the same thing, and that's all different levels.
Speaker 2: So what seems hard this year, you know next year
Speaker 2: you look back, would be nothing. And what was hard two, three,
Speaker 2: five years ago? And I look it for me now
Speaker 2: looking back too, three five years ago? What was hard
Speaker 2: back then? These days a walk in the park, it's
Speaker 2: so easy to fix. But when these things pop up,
Speaker 2: it's handling them head on, taking these things, taking these
Speaker 2: things on and winning and finding out pressures. Or if
Speaker 2: you lose, I don't look at anything as a loss
Speaker 2: as long as you learned from it. So as long
Speaker 2: as you learn from anything, a mistake or a lesson
Speaker 2: or anything that happens, even if you lose money from it,
Speaker 2: as long as you learn from it, you can reiterate
Speaker 2: and be better as you move forward. And that's how
Speaker 2: I've seen every single one of these guys and girls
Speaker 2: that I've interviewed with this thing. They've all had losses
Speaker 2: and they've all just picked themselves, dust themselves off. They
Speaker 2: maybe they hurt for a year off the back of
Speaker 2: it or six months off the back of it or whatever,
Speaker 2: until they could keep, you know, keep that thing moving, improve, reiterate,
Speaker 2: you know, the new iterations being better, and then succeeding
Speaker 2: from there.
Speaker 1: It's funny, You're right. I mean, I was thinking as
Speaker 1: I was listening to you then, and there are certain
Speaker 1: characteristics of these successful people that are common and it's
Speaker 1: not they don't make mistakes. Everyone, I'm including Harry how
Speaker 1: trigger Off, will tell you how he makes mistakes. He's
Speaker 1: made mistakes. But he's ninety two this year's actually just
Speaker 1: turned ninety two last couple of days, and he's still
Speaker 1: at it, and he's probably still up against it, like
Speaker 1: council giving approvals or not being able to get the
Speaker 1: pre sales and he wanted to not the price he needs,
Speaker 1: or problems with the building, with the builders, the excavation,
Speaker 1: whatever it is. There's always there's always a problem. And
Speaker 1: if every day you work go to the office knowing
Speaker 1: that I'm just kind of to solve some stuff today,
Speaker 1: that's the way to look at it.
Speaker 2: Solve.
Speaker 1: Yeah, solved, I.
Speaker 2: Think that's the biggest thing. Solutions based thinking, solving problems. Ye,
Speaker 2: that's that's what it's all about. I'm here to solve exactly.
Speaker 2: That's my job and that's how you look at it
Speaker 2: and everything exactly.
Speaker 1: Okay, what are we going to do today? Okay? This problem?
Speaker 1: Also because people ask me what do I do, and
Speaker 1: I say, I spent my life putting up bush fires,
Speaker 1: and because that's that's what I'm I'm a firefighter. I'm
Speaker 1: putting our bush fires. That's what to do. That's my
Speaker 1: daily Apart from this, my daily job, My duty is
Speaker 1: to put out bush fires. Because I don't give a
Speaker 1: shit what job you're in. And if you're successful, you're
Speaker 1: going to one percent good stuff, and nine in nine
Speaker 1: out of one hundred things will be problems if you're
Speaker 1: sitting at the top of the business. Yeah the business
Speaker 1: doesn't mean business, not making money whatever, But if you're
Speaker 1: sitting at top of business, that will be a lot
Speaker 1: of things you got to solve, and you will never
Speaker 1: solve more. You'll go home and go to bed every
Speaker 1: day with things that you didn't fix. The trick is
Speaker 1: to say, okay, park that, what do you do? I
Speaker 1: park it and I try to forget about it. What
Speaker 1: do you do when you know that you haven't solved
Speaker 1: everything for the day? How do you get to sleep
Speaker 1: at night?
Speaker 2: I always put together a list around what are the
Speaker 2: most important things that need to be fixed and then
Speaker 2: the things that can rightise? Yeah, and what needs what
Speaker 2: can be put off and fixed in because if you're
Speaker 2: trying and fix everything at the same time, you're going
Speaker 2: to employ it, right you go nuts, exactly, And not
Speaker 2: a note of itting can be f at one time.
Speaker 2: So it's what could be delegated to someone else to handle,
Speaker 2: and then if it can't be if it can't be
Speaker 2: handled by them, okay, sweet, what's the time frame it
Speaker 2: has to be fixed within? And then you prioritize the
Speaker 2: most importantly, delegate what you can delegate, and if things
Speaker 2: have to be done by you, it's by prioritization because ultimately, yeah, exactly,
Speaker 2: you say they're not going to be able to fix
Speaker 2: everything in the same day and get it all done,
Speaker 2: So yeah, prioritization must different tasks.
Speaker 1: If you develop some sort of skill though, Sam, that
Speaker 1: allows you to park the problems, because like, if you've
Speaker 1: got an obsessive type personality, everyone can obsessed with these things,
Speaker 1: which means you don't sleep, then you don't know, you
Speaker 1: don't perform if you don't sleep. How do you park it?
Speaker 1: I mean, and did you ever go through a period
Speaker 1: when you couldn't park those things at the end of
Speaker 1: the day? And when is the end of the day
Speaker 1: for you? I mean, how do you sort of real
Speaker 1: align in the day and say, Okay, I'm now I'm
Speaker 1: going to go to bed or I'm going to go
Speaker 1: home and have my dinner with my family and then
Speaker 1: I'm not going to think about this sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: How do you how do you re align the day
Speaker 1: and park stuff? Is it a conscious decision or is
Speaker 1: just something you do at the subconcient your unconsciously.
Speaker 2: It's I think it's probably a mix. I think it
Speaker 2: depends on the gravity of what the situation is and
Speaker 2: how important it is. If something is really important, I
Speaker 2: don't get to bed until until I get it done,
Speaker 2: or and I don't I don't finish up work until
Speaker 2: I get it done, or at least put the pieces
Speaker 2: in motion to get a result so I can fix something.
Speaker 2: Because you're a hundred percent right, like it's most of
Speaker 2: what we do is putting out fires and handling problems
Speaker 2: and all the rest of it. One of the other
Speaker 2: big things I've got is I've got a massive white
Speaker 2: boardom office and it's like my you know they do
Speaker 2: like a brainstorming session. Yeah, that's it. So I'll throw
Speaker 2: heaps in myself on the boards, whether it's something i'm
Speaker 2: coming to or different ideas and stuff that I've got,
Speaker 2: and whether I'm drotting that down something later i'll have
Speaker 2: something something where I'm on the phone or someone I
Speaker 2: just have an idea of me, I'll go write it down.
Speaker 2: And one of the one of the columns all the
Speaker 2: way on the right hand side is things that need
Speaker 2: to be fixed and things that are a priority that
Speaker 2: need to be sort of taking care of as well
Speaker 2: and need to stay top of mind, and I write
Speaker 2: it there. So if if it's not something it needs
Speaker 2: to be urgently done, because it's urgently done, will alway
Speaker 2: jump on and do them as quickly as I can
Speaker 2: with those sorts of items. But things that I know
Speaker 2: that need to be fixed but aren't like a crazy priority,
Speaker 2: I'll put them on there. So then every single time
Speaker 2: I walk in the room, I'm seeing it straight away.
Speaker 2: Every time i'm finishing something up. I'm seeing it straight away,
Speaker 2: and I hate having unfinished business like around, especially if
Speaker 2: they're things that I know are either going to be
Speaker 2: needle movers or create a solution that is going to
Speaker 2: take that piece out of my mind, because I'm very
Speaker 2: much someone. Yeah that Like, if I'm going to bed
Speaker 2: with something that's important and I haven't fixed it, I
Speaker 2: don't sleep. You know, I won't sleep.
Speaker 1: Well, what about it if you can't fix it today?
Speaker 2: If you can't fix it and it's super important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's important, I can't fix it. It's on
Speaker 1: the top writing corner my whiteboard. I can't fix it.
Speaker 1: If you've got a technique that helps you go to sleep,
Speaker 1: But what do you do?
Speaker 2: I strategize how I'm going to fix it. That's normally
Speaker 2: the best way because otherwise otherwise I got to sleep
Speaker 2: strategizing it, and I'm writing notes in my phone at
Speaker 2: one am, you know of or speaking to Siri at
Speaker 2: one am to send myself messages on to on how
Speaker 2: to fix these things. But yeah, I'll normally try and
Speaker 2: like actually strategize it before I leave the room or
Speaker 2: before I go to bed, and my notes in my
Speaker 2: phone is all is so much of a hit list
Speaker 2: of all this sort of stuff because exactly what you
Speaker 2: said before, like solving problems and solutions based thinking and
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, Like, I try and apply that
Speaker 2: to everything everything I do. Whether it's something within the
Speaker 2: business you know that we're trying to optimize for, or
Speaker 2: a service that we're trying to maximize, or a problem
Speaker 2: that's popped up and all the rest sort of thing.
Speaker 2: I'm always trying to solve it from that perspective. So
Speaker 2: if I get to the end of the day and
Speaker 2: I couldn't get someone on the phone, or I couldn't
Speaker 2: take care of this or that or whatever, I will, yeah,
Speaker 2: effectively strategize how I can do it. So if I
Speaker 2: can't do it tonight, well I've done all that I
Speaker 2: can now, And but here's a strategy or he's he's
Speaker 2: runing to implement tomorrow to take care of this thing,
Speaker 2: whether it's getting someone on the phone, top points I
Speaker 2: want to run through with with whoever or whatever it is,
Speaker 2: or if there's something specifically needs to be fixed maybe
Speaker 2: from a service position within the business. Well bang writing
Speaker 2: out all my different little things as well. And we're
Speaker 2: going through so many changes in business right now as well.
Speaker 2: Right there's so many different things evolving. So I've always
Speaker 2: got these different ideas come into my head and same
Speaker 2: thing bang throwing out there, taking all the notes of
Speaker 2: it and putting into place whether it needs to be
Speaker 2: tonight or or then it first thing the next day.
Speaker 1: It's very interesting. I often say to people, excuse my
Speaker 1: off sead of people, that solutions in the business means
Speaker 1: is an action as word of action. It's like say
Speaker 1: you've got to do an action. Solving something is an action.
Speaker 1: It's not a thought. You're not thinking about solving something.
Speaker 1: You are. I come up with a strategy, that's the thought,
Speaker 1: but there's an action that associated with it. And part
Speaker 1: of the action I think is taking notes. I mean,
Speaker 1: I'm a big note taker, and I see people in
Speaker 1: things work place where do talks and stuff that they
Speaker 1: don't take notes. And you know a lot of people
Speaker 1: have great ideas, but they never reduce it to writing.
Speaker 1: And I think that if you've got a solution, if
Speaker 1: you've got a problem that you don't know the solution for,
Speaker 1: but you think there's some strategy, here's a few strategies
Speaker 1: around a way I might solve it. Writing it down
Speaker 1: actually helps you, Like you've sort of put it away
Speaker 1: for the moment and you can pick it up the
Speaker 1: next day. But if you go to bed and have
Speaker 1: not written something down, you continually keep thinking about it.
Speaker 1: So writing things down, reducing things to writing can put
Speaker 1: a full stop in your day and lay your brain
Speaker 1: to rest and go to sleep. Then tomorrow morning when
Speaker 1: you wake up and you're fresh. You might wake up
Speaker 1: three o'clock, four o'clock a months that's okay, no drama,
Speaker 1: but at least you can get to bed and get
Speaker 1: some sleep and then started on it again after you refreshed.
Speaker 1: But writing notes is part of the action required to
Speaker 1: solve a problem instead of just ruminating over a problem.
Speaker 1: That's the worst thing you can possibly do. Write shit
Speaker 1: down and or your cereal however you want to do it,
Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter, like and if you wake in
Speaker 1: the middle of night, you're right, just speak how you
Speaker 1: do it, just be to cereal or write down, but
Speaker 1: write down and then go back to sleep. Yeap, don't
Speaker 1: sit there ruminating over it.
Speaker 2: You're what I think is the golden part of this
Speaker 2: that I absolutely love me because that's exactly how I
Speaker 2: look at it as well. And It's worked so well
Speaker 2: for me over the years too. I find that when
Speaker 2: you take that action piece of writing, not just like
Speaker 2: thinking about it whatever, but actually writing it down and
Speaker 2: even a couple of little dot points, it might go
Speaker 2: wizard of like what you're sort of thinking of. I
Speaker 2: find you when I've done that, my mind percolates on it.
Speaker 2: Whilst even whilst it's like a subconscious you know what
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like, well, I've done everything I can today,
Speaker 2: I'll do you know, I'm going to I'll take care
Speaker 2: of it first thing in the morning again, right out
Speaker 2: sort of thing. Your mind will percolate on how to
Speaker 2: actually fix it during you got a plan from yeah,
Speaker 2: and it starts to come up with stuff. So then
Speaker 2: when you start thinking in the morning with the fresh mind,
Speaker 2: it's like, well, all these things start coming to me.
Speaker 2: And a lot of the time it's actually from that.
Speaker 2: It's putting that out there of like this is what
Speaker 2: I'm trying to solve, especially making it a priority. From
Speaker 2: that example, and then it comes up.
Speaker 1: I'm just a big believer and I like what you say.
Speaker 1: I'm just a big believer of taking notes. Sometimes you
Speaker 1: really know what the fuck was thinking about? What does
Speaker 1: that mean, but just taking notes and just to close
Speaker 1: your day down. There's no better time to refresh, you know,
Speaker 1: or to summarize what you've been doing all day or
Speaker 1: working on the problem and put it into context. There
Speaker 1: could be ten bullet points or three bullet points, and
Speaker 1: you look at it again tomorrow and you start again. Nothing.
Speaker 1: There's very few things that are solvable over time. Yes,
Speaker 1: very few things, as long as you're prepared to give
Speaker 1: yourself the time. So when you're not prepared to give
Speaker 1: yourself the time, you think you're in a hurry, that's
Speaker 1: when you really stress yourself out and you can cause
Speaker 1: yourself problems and you will make bad decisions, you know, Like,
Speaker 1: it's not just a lot of people think it's about money.
Speaker 1: I think it's having the funds to do something or
Speaker 1: fix something. Yeah, sure, if you've got lots of money
Speaker 1: that they fixes most things. But you know, you really
Speaker 1: shouldn't worry about that. Think about it that way. It's
Speaker 1: a game, and the game is the solutions to the problem.
Speaker 1: That's the game we play. And if we accept that
Speaker 1: that's the game we're in, then it's such a big deal.
Speaker 1: And in order to accept it, you just write it
Speaker 1: down and write down moves. In a game of chess,
Speaker 1: I'm at a point where it's a difficult game. I
Speaker 1: look like I'm getting the other guys getting on top
Speaker 1: of me. Before I finish the game. Offer today, before
Speaker 1: I resume the game tomorrow, I'm going to write down
Speaker 1: a few ideas about a few moves I might make tomorrow.
Speaker 1: And that's it. I'll go to sleep, and I wake
Speaker 1: up tomorrow morning, I'm set to go again. Businesses like
Speaker 1: playing chess. You just got to write your stuff down
Speaker 1: and that's it. Put it to bed, get up the
Speaker 1: next morning, work on it again, and keep going. Buy
Speaker 1: self time, make moves that buy you time. Eventually, the
Speaker 1: answer will present itself. We don't really think of the answer.
Speaker 1: I don't think. I mean, the answers present themselves. Once
Speaker 1: you've exhausted all the various alleyways and avenues you're going
Speaker 1: to go down. They present themselves a lot of times.
Speaker 1: That's eliminating what.
Speaker 2: Is not an answer?
Speaker 1: And then the answer reveals itself.
Speaker 2: It's like a different solution you hadn't already been thinking.
Speaker 2: It was already in your mind a lot.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm you're and by the way, Sam you're right.
Speaker 1: I don't care of a shit who you are. You know,
Speaker 1: you could have been Kerry Packer, you me Rupe Murdoch.
Speaker 1: Business is about being prepared to accept the problems and
Speaker 1: being really excited about coming up with solutions. Look at
Speaker 1: Murdoch now, he's in his nineties. He's still dealing with
Speaker 1: issues and he's still alive and the reason and he's
Speaker 1: still doing it, and I think it drives him. It
Speaker 1: keeps him alive. I actually think keeps him life. You're
Speaker 1: a young man, but you know when you're my age,
Speaker 1: you know it's actually the game of chess. The solutions
Speaker 1: are actually the game. That's what will keep you young.
Speaker 1: Very true, keep your brain young and a lot of
Speaker 1: times you can be able to deal with these things
Speaker 1: for you've since it before or some variation of it.
Speaker 1: Sam Gordon, thanks very much, made and by the way,
Speaker 1: congratulations on your Top one percent podcast. Appreciate it doing
Speaker 1: a brilliant job.
Speaker 2: Thank you. I appreciate it. I just want to say, man, honestly,
Speaker 2: like I said, I've been watching you for a very
Speaker 2: long time. So to finally meet one of my idols,
Speaker 2: imperson mate, Honestly, it's a massive very humbling moment for
Speaker 2: me to be able to meet your mate, so thank
Speaker 2: you so much having me on.
Speaker 1: Thanks Sammy, you've been on my tail. So in terms
Speaker 1: of your audiences you've caught have been on a long
Speaker 1: time and bla Helen you've caught up so quickly, but
Speaker 1: well done mate, Thank you, Matte really appreciate it.