1 00:00:03,430 --> 00:00:05,850 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. I'm Sean 2 00:00:05,850 --> 00:00:09,100 Sean Aylmer: Aylmer. Empty shelves in shops have become a very familiar 3 00:00:09,100 --> 00:00:12,800 Sean Aylmer: site in the last couple of months. Staff isolating, shortages 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:16,439 Sean Aylmer: of workers, major supply chain issues. They've all combined to 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:20,700 Sean Aylmer: create the shortage economy. There's also inflation, without a doubt, 6 00:00:20,890 --> 00:00:24,720 Sean Aylmer: throughout most major economies. It all makes very, very interesting 7 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,260 Sean Aylmer: earning season, which really kicks off an earnest this week. AMP 8 00:00:28,260 --> 00:00:31,640 Sean Aylmer: Capital Australian Equities portfolio manager, Dermot Ryan, is my guest 9 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:33,690 Sean Aylmer: this morning. Dermot, welcome back to Fear and Greed. 10 00:00:34,020 --> 00:00:34,690 Dermot Ryan: Thanks, Sean. 11 00:00:35,090 --> 00:00:37,920 Sean Aylmer: Let's start with the problem, and then hopefully look at 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:41,010 Sean Aylmer: the solution. Just how bad is the shortage economy that we're 13 00:00:41,010 --> 00:00:42,260 Sean Aylmer: hearing so much about? 14 00:00:43,229 --> 00:00:47,879 Dermot Ryan: The shortage economy has been an issue across many aspects of 15 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:52,170 Dermot Ryan: daily life, and the economy for some time now. Individuals 16 00:00:52,170 --> 00:00:55,770 Dermot Ryan: will see it as empty shelves, or lack of stock 17 00:00:55,780 --> 00:01:00,340 Dermot Ryan: in various retailers, or also extreme demand for things like 18 00:01:00,690 --> 00:01:04,590 Dermot Ryan: rapid antigen tests. And economists kind of see it as 19 00:01:04,810 --> 00:01:07,729 Dermot Ryan: inflation coming through. I guess to show how bad it 20 00:01:07,730 --> 00:01:12,430 Dermot Ryan: is, the U. S. printed a 7% inflation rate. The 21 00:01:12,470 --> 00:01:16,759 Dermot Ryan: European Union, 5%. And Australia, which is lagging a little 22 00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:20,130 Dermot Ryan: bit because of our later lockdowns with COVID, printed a 3. 23 00:01:20,130 --> 00:01:25,380 Dermot Ryan: 5% inflation for the last quarter of last year. And 24 00:01:25,380 --> 00:01:27,819 Dermot Ryan: what we're seeing is that this is the highest level 25 00:01:27,870 --> 00:01:33,339 Dermot Ryan: of inflation since generally the '70s for major advanced economies. 26 00:01:33,910 --> 00:01:37,280 Dermot Ryan: It's a trip back in time, and certainly a problem 27 00:01:37,280 --> 00:01:40,560 Dermot Ryan: that we haven't seen for a while in advanced economies. 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,550 Sean Aylmer: Is it transitory? Wills things return back to normal, whatever 29 00:01:44,550 --> 00:01:48,050 Sean Aylmer: normal is? Or is it the case that we are 30 00:01:48,050 --> 00:01:51,420 Sean Aylmer: not going to get inflation back to those extremely low 31 00:01:51,420 --> 00:01:52,730 Sean Aylmer: levels we had pre- pandemic? 32 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:55,240 Dermot Ryan: Well, there's probably a couple things to your question there. 33 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,550 Dermot Ryan: I mean, the first thing is that there are parts 34 00:01:57,550 --> 00:01:59,520 Dermot Ryan: of it that are (transistasis) . Some of these high 35 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,810 Dermot Ryan: numbers are because of the prior year being lower and 36 00:02:02,810 --> 00:02:06,950 Dermot Ryan: impacted by COVID demand. But certainly, what we're starting to 37 00:02:06,950 --> 00:02:10,850 Dermot Ryan: see is a breakout in a number of sequential inflation 38 00:02:10,850 --> 00:02:14,940 Dermot Ryan: points. What we have is ... the COVID virus has made 39 00:02:14,940 --> 00:02:18,639 Dermot Ryan: a lot of things very intermittent. It's moved supply and 40 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,119 Dermot Ryan: demand to turn up in different places to usual. Something 41 00:02:22,120 --> 00:02:25,050 Dermot Ryan: that we might use the same amount of suddenly can 42 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:29,190 Dermot Ryan: become scarce in points. I think the toilet paper example 43 00:02:29,190 --> 00:02:31,190 Dermot Ryan: is probably a good example of that. It's not like 44 00:02:31,190 --> 00:02:33,730 Dermot Ryan: the economy needed more of it, but it just ran 45 00:02:33,730 --> 00:02:36,030 Dermot Ryan: out in places where people would buy it for their 46 00:02:36,030 --> 00:02:40,520 Dermot Ryan: homes. We've seen also production disruptions, and that's because it's 47 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,859 Dermot Ryan: been hard to move people and goods around. Logistics is 48 00:02:43,860 --> 00:02:47,989 Dermot Ryan: very difficult in the economy at the moment. Not just 49 00:02:47,990 --> 00:02:50,710 Dermot Ryan: because the trucks are full, but also because you can't 50 00:02:50,710 --> 00:02:55,139 Dermot Ryan: find truck drivers, as well as demand is changing. We've 51 00:02:55,139 --> 00:02:58,859 Dermot Ryan: kind of gone between lockdown and reopen, and everything in 52 00:02:58,860 --> 00:03:04,180 Dermot Ryan: between, and people's consumption patterns are changing. How does this play 53 00:03:04,180 --> 00:03:07,130 Dermot Ryan: through, and how do things get back to normal? Well, 54 00:03:07,740 --> 00:03:12,750 Dermot Ryan: without trying to be an armchair epidemiologist, if things can 55 00:03:12,750 --> 00:03:15,270 Dermot Ryan: kind of get to an endemic stage where we get 56 00:03:15,270 --> 00:03:19,020 Dermot Ryan: a more mild variant of COVID and it becomes endemic 57 00:03:19,020 --> 00:03:21,040 Dermot Ryan: like the flu, then I think we can have a 58 00:03:21,040 --> 00:03:24,419 Dermot Ryan: normal like what we saw before. But the question for 59 00:03:24,419 --> 00:03:27,340 Dermot Ryan: inflation is it's been around for quite some time now, 60 00:03:27,340 --> 00:03:30,210 Dermot Ryan: and it's impacting businesses on a number of lines. We're 61 00:03:30,210 --> 00:03:33,700 Dermot Ryan: starting to see more embedded inflation coming into the economy. 62 00:03:34,450 --> 00:03:37,700 Dermot Ryan: Getting back to normal is probably going to need the 63 00:03:37,700 --> 00:03:41,900 Dermot Ryan: central banks here and globally to start lifting their interest 64 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:46,280 Dermot Ryan: rates to pull back on demand, so that inflation doesn't 65 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:48,140 Dermot Ryan: continue to stay out of control. 66 00:03:48,510 --> 00:03:51,070 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Just before we get into the opportunities for investors, 67 00:03:51,070 --> 00:03:54,580 Sean Aylmer: you mentioned the central banks. What's your take? We've seen 68 00:03:54,670 --> 00:03:57,590 Sean Aylmer: the Bank of England, the U. S. Fed ... they're indicating 69 00:03:57,590 --> 00:04:01,020 Sean Aylmer: or have started lifting rates. Even ECB is talking about, 70 00:04:01,020 --> 00:04:05,970 Sean Aylmer: which is unusual. Australia still isn't really there, although it's 71 00:04:05,970 --> 00:04:08,620 Sean Aylmer: more likely to be next year now rather than 2024 72 00:04:08,620 --> 00:04:11,010 Sean Aylmer: or even earlier. I suppose my question is: have central 73 00:04:11,010 --> 00:04:14,160 Sean Aylmer: banks done a good job, do you think, keeping a 74 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:14,990 Sean Aylmer: lid on inflation? 75 00:04:15,520 --> 00:04:18,870 Dermot Ryan: I think the central banks did a good job initially. 76 00:04:19,020 --> 00:04:21,659 Dermot Ryan: We were kind of going of the dark at the very 77 00:04:21,660 --> 00:04:24,870 Dermot Ryan: beginning in 2020. But I think this period we look 78 00:04:24,870 --> 00:04:27,740 Dermot Ryan: back as a big mistake in central banking, particularly in 79 00:04:27,740 --> 00:04:31,289 Dermot Ryan: Australia. Interest rates have been set too low, and have 80 00:04:31,890 --> 00:04:36,849 Dermot Ryan: basically created excess demand for assets. We've seen record prices 81 00:04:36,850 --> 00:04:41,900 Dermot Ryan: across residential housing, land prices. We've seen records amount of M&A in 82 00:04:42,490 --> 00:04:46,760 Dermot Ryan: the market. I think a 2% rate of borrowing is probably 83 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,880 Dermot Ryan: too low for a country like Australia. And what I'd 84 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,990 Dermot Ryan: like to see is a little less conversation and a 85 00:04:52,990 --> 00:04:57,080 Dermot Ryan: little bit more action from the central banks. I think 86 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,210 Dermot Ryan: the path for raising rates is this year in Australia 87 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:03,950 Dermot Ryan: and overseas, because the level of excess in the market 88 00:05:03,950 --> 00:05:07,830 Dermot Ryan: has been quite incredible and no more than what we 89 00:05:07,830 --> 00:05:10,470 Dermot Ryan: see in the tech market. And now that there's even 90 00:05:10,470 --> 00:05:14,050 Dermot Ryan: talk about interest rates going up, we're seeing almost what's 91 00:05:14,050 --> 00:05:16,960 Dermot Ryan: looking like a massive crash globally in tech stocks. 92 00:05:17,220 --> 00:05:19,779 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I mean, the selloff in Meta ... the owner of 93 00:05:19,779 --> 00:05:24,380 Sean Aylmer: Facebook late last week, was quite incredible. Is that about 94 00:05:24,610 --> 00:05:27,570 Sean Aylmer: the discount rate they're using to price those sorts of 95 00:05:27,570 --> 00:05:30,570 Sean Aylmer: companies? Or there must be more to it, because they're big falls. 96 00:05:31,470 --> 00:05:34,380 Dermot Ryan: Yes. Well, Meta has ... a lot of it is to 97 00:05:34,380 --> 00:05:38,270 Dermot Ryan: do with valuation. Valuations over a number of years have 98 00:05:38,270 --> 00:05:42,349 Dermot Ryan: continued to grow without earnings underlying it growing at the 99 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,909 Dermot Ryan: same pace. Meta and other advertising tech firms had a 100 00:05:47,910 --> 00:05:51,210 Dermot Ryan: lot of advertising content and targets when everyone was at 101 00:05:51,210 --> 00:05:54,760 Dermot Ryan: home, and on their computers, and on their phones. But 102 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:58,000 Dermot Ryan: now that things are reopening, their advertising rates are dropping 103 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,210 Dermot Ryan: off and their revenue growth is dropping off as well. 104 00:06:01,339 --> 00:06:04,560 Dermot Ryan: That's been an issue. That's kind of that at- home- to- 105 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,210 Dermot Ryan: reopening kind of transition of the population. But the broader 106 00:06:08,210 --> 00:06:11,860 Dermot Ryan: problem for tech is Meta, or Facebook, as it was 107 00:06:11,860 --> 00:06:15,310 Dermot Ryan: known, is actually a company that generates revenue. There's a 108 00:06:15,310 --> 00:06:18,780 Dermot Ryan: number of companies that just don't generate any free cash 109 00:06:18,790 --> 00:06:22,600 Dermot Ryan: flow, and they generate consistent losses, and investors have been 110 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,370 Dermot Ryan: investing and hoping to make money in, let's say, a 111 00:06:26,370 --> 00:06:30,790 Dermot Ryan: decade when they become profitable. Now, that business model relies 112 00:06:30,790 --> 00:06:34,700 Dermot Ryan: on money being available for the company for shareholders to 113 00:06:34,700 --> 00:06:36,750 Dermot Ryan: give it to them to keep them going with their 114 00:06:36,750 --> 00:06:41,070 Dermot Ryan: losses between now. Obviously with interest rates going up, the 115 00:06:41,070 --> 00:06:44,109 Dermot Ryan: price of money is going up, and also the discounted 116 00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:47,360 Dermot Ryan: cash flows of those future profits ... let's say, 10 years 117 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:51,599 Dermot Ryan: and beyond, are also diminishing as inflation and interest rates 118 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,020 Dermot Ryan: reduce them. All these long duration assets, and tech in 119 00:06:55,020 --> 00:06:58,310 Dermot Ryan: particular, are starting to be aggressively price down in the 120 00:06:58,310 --> 00:06:59,450 Dermot Ryan: market as a result. 121 00:06:59,690 --> 00:07:02,000 Sean Aylmer: Okay. Stay with me, Dermot. We'll be back in a 122 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:09,560 Sean Aylmer: minute. My guest this morning is Dermot Ryan, Australian Equities 123 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,170 Sean Aylmer: portfolio manager at AMP Capital. We've got the earning season 124 00:07:13,170 --> 00:07:15,800 Sean Aylmer: kicking off in earnest this week. I just wanted to go through 125 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:18,750 Sean Aylmer: a few of the sectors. Retailers. We started this talking 126 00:07:18,750 --> 00:07:21,510 Sean Aylmer: about empty shelves and things like that. What's all this 127 00:07:21,510 --> 00:07:25,700 Sean Aylmer: mean for retailers and for investors thinking about investing in retail? 128 00:07:26,060 --> 00:07:28,770 Dermot Ryan: Yeah. Retail is actually very important. A lot of the 129 00:07:28,770 --> 00:07:33,620 Dermot Ryan: retailers ... there's been a number of downgrades this year. Lockdowns 130 00:07:33,620 --> 00:07:37,810 Dermot Ryan: last year with Omicron wave happened at a key selling 131 00:07:37,810 --> 00:07:41,360 Dermot Ryan: time around Christmas for the retailers. A lot of them 132 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,300 Dermot Ryan: had impacted sales, so they've been left with inventory for 133 00:07:44,300 --> 00:07:47,240 Dermot Ryan: summer that they have had to, in some cases, write 134 00:07:47,240 --> 00:07:51,340 Dermot Ryan: down and have foregone sales. And so it's been a 135 00:07:51,340 --> 00:07:55,000 Dermot Ryan: sector that has been on and off. We had the 136 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:58,920 Dermot Ryan: lockdowns and reopened. We've had surges of sales in some 137 00:07:58,920 --> 00:08:02,360 Dermot Ryan: areas like home cares, and furnitures have done very well 138 00:08:02,630 --> 00:08:04,940 Dermot Ryan: as people have been at home. We see that there's 139 00:08:04,940 --> 00:08:08,680 Dermot Ryan: actually some opportunities in this space. We've been buying Metcash, 140 00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:11,002 Dermot Ryan: which owns the IGA brand, as well as (Mitre) 141 00:08:11,140 --> 00:08:15,230 Dermot Ryan: 10, which has benefited as people have been staying in 142 00:08:15,230 --> 00:08:18,420 Dermot Ryan: the suburbs rather than going to the city. And also 143 00:08:18,420 --> 00:08:22,380 Dermot Ryan: the home building boom, partly due to the RBA's zero 144 00:08:22,380 --> 00:08:26,270 Dermot Ryan: interest rates buying a lot of DIY. And we've also 145 00:08:26,270 --> 00:08:30,110 Dermot Ryan: seen companies actually in this recent selloff like Adairs, which 146 00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:34,390 Dermot Ryan: is a homeware company, which sells 50% online. And they've 147 00:08:34,390 --> 00:08:36,910 Dermot Ryan: been kind of caught up in the inventory cycle issues, 148 00:08:36,910 --> 00:08:40,200 Dermot Ryan: as well as the online side of things. That's stock 149 00:08:40,230 --> 00:08:43,880 Dermot Ryan: had a profit warning, and gave some interesting entry points 150 00:08:43,880 --> 00:08:46,960 Dermot Ryan: for new investors. But in general, we think most of 151 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,359 Dermot Ryan: that sector has got very good balance sheets. They've got 152 00:08:49,410 --> 00:08:53,390 Dermot Ryan: franking credits that they can distribute now. And we think 153 00:08:53,390 --> 00:08:56,760 Dermot Ryan: they're an interesting play. Particularly in stocks like Adairs that 154 00:08:56,760 --> 00:09:00,709 Dermot Ryan: are 50% online and 50% physical stores, because they can 155 00:09:00,710 --> 00:09:04,480 Dermot Ryan: kind of thrive in either environment, whether there is future 156 00:09:04,480 --> 00:09:05,360 Dermot Ryan: lockdowns or not. 157 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,050 Sean Aylmer: What about the energy sector? 158 00:09:07,710 --> 00:09:10,630 Dermot Ryan: Energy sector's been very interesting. This has been an area 159 00:09:10,630 --> 00:09:15,240 Dermot Ryan: where there's a secular bull market happening in batteries and 160 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,620 Dermot Ryan: all components of batteries. It's been an area we've been 161 00:09:18,630 --> 00:09:22,300 Dermot Ryan: investing in for a number of years now. We started 162 00:09:22,300 --> 00:09:25,240 Dermot Ryan: buying it in 2020 when the sector was on its 163 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,949 Dermot Ryan: knees at the time with very low commodity prices. This 164 00:09:28,950 --> 00:09:32,810 Dermot Ryan: is an area where there's been very, very strong gains. 165 00:09:33,010 --> 00:09:36,990 Dermot Ryan: Lithium prices have gone up over or eight times, and 166 00:09:36,990 --> 00:09:42,270 Dermot Ryan: downstream lithium minors have been enjoying very strong returns in 167 00:09:42,270 --> 00:09:45,240 Dermot Ryan: the market. We really like a number of aspects of 168 00:09:45,240 --> 00:09:48,230 Dermot Ryan: that battery minerals complex. And we think this is going 169 00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:50,670 Dermot Ryan: to be a big part of Australia's export future as 170 00:09:50,670 --> 00:09:53,770 Dermot Ryan: we look forward over the next couple of years. The 171 00:09:53,770 --> 00:09:56,700 Dermot Ryan: exports are kind of beginning now, and that's very interesting. 172 00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:59,990 Dermot Ryan: The other aspect is kind of, I guess, the fossil fuels. 173 00:10:00,390 --> 00:10:04,670 Dermot Ryan: We're seeing really, really strong gas prices globally. LNG prices 174 00:10:04,670 --> 00:10:09,500 Dermot Ryan: are at record highs. Even coal prices, thermal, and metallurgical 175 00:10:09,500 --> 00:10:12,179 Dermot Ryan: coal are very, very high prices. And oil is at 176 00:10:12,179 --> 00:10:15,800 Dermot Ryan: a seven year high. Now, in a decarbonizing world, that 177 00:10:16,040 --> 00:10:19,120 Dermot Ryan: seem a bit of a paradox. But it's really because 178 00:10:19,170 --> 00:10:20,900 Dermot Ryan: there hasn't been a lot of investment. It's kind of 179 00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:23,960 Dermot Ryan: comes down to this shortage economy as well. There hasn't 180 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:26,100 Dermot Ryan: been a lot of investment in new supply, and it's 181 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:30,120 Dermot Ryan: also been hard for countries and companies to change their 182 00:10:30,179 --> 00:10:35,450 Dermot Ryan: energy supply during such a disrupted period as COVID. There's 183 00:10:35,450 --> 00:10:38,250 Dermot Ryan: both demand for the fossil fuels, which are kind of the 184 00:10:38,250 --> 00:10:41,500 Dermot Ryan: current solution, as well as the new solution that we're 185 00:10:41,500 --> 00:10:45,709 Dermot Ryan: hoping to move increasingly towards, which is batteries and renewables. 186 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,710 Dermot Ryan: It's been a halcyon period for energy investors. 187 00:10:49,710 --> 00:10:52,220 Sean Aylmer: Another couple just quickly. The travel sector. Not many have 188 00:10:52,220 --> 00:10:55,579 Sean Aylmer: been hit as hard by coronavirus. Has travel sector, though? 189 00:10:55,580 --> 00:10:58,020 Sean Aylmer: It did rebound last year. But then, of course, omicron 190 00:10:58,020 --> 00:10:59,590 Sean Aylmer: has hurt it again. What do you make of the 191 00:11:00,870 --> 00:11:01,180 Sean Aylmer: travel sector? 192 00:11:01,180 --> 00:11:04,490 Dermot Ryan: Travel sector has been very difficult to pick. In a lot of cases, 193 00:11:04,490 --> 00:11:08,880 Dermot Ryan: it's a very capital intensive sector. Whether you're an airline and 194 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,960 Dermot Ryan: have to have planes, or hotelier and own all the 195 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:18,809 Dermot Ryan: hotel and maintenance. We've been broadly cautious on travel. Because 196 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,480 Dermot Ryan: as you know yourself, it's very hard to make plans 197 00:11:21,480 --> 00:11:24,189 Dermot Ryan: at the moment, and we'd all love to go travel 198 00:11:24,190 --> 00:11:27,220 Dermot Ryan: the world, I suspect. But thinking it and doing it 199 00:11:27,220 --> 00:11:30,410 Dermot Ryan: are two different things, and it is very, very tricky. 200 00:11:31,320 --> 00:11:34,450 Dermot Ryan: We've actually stepped away from the travel stocks for the 201 00:11:34,450 --> 00:11:38,309 Dermot Ryan: moment. We actually like casinos, and our casino investment might 202 00:11:38,309 --> 00:11:41,750 Dermot Ryan: not be for everyone. We think where they're trading now 203 00:11:41,750 --> 00:11:44,980 Dermot Ryan: is closer around their property values. We've seen a bid 204 00:11:44,980 --> 00:11:48,290 Dermot Ryan: for Crown by Blackstone, which they actually raised on themselves. 205 00:11:48,290 --> 00:11:51,970 Dermot Ryan: Blackstone are a well known U. S. private equity house 206 00:11:51,970 --> 00:11:56,010 Dermot Ryan: that invest particularly in property of casinos. And so we 207 00:11:56,010 --> 00:11:59,380 Dermot Ryan: think as things reopen, they'll benefit. And also, in a 208 00:11:59,380 --> 00:12:02,390 Dermot Ryan: way, they're quite a good inflation hedge. Because if people's 209 00:12:02,390 --> 00:12:05,490 Dermot Ryan: wages go up, then we assume that their wage ring 210 00:12:05,490 --> 00:12:08,540 Dermot Ryan: might as well. For the exact time that we're in, 211 00:12:08,540 --> 00:12:11,920 Dermot Ryan: it's probably not a bad travel exposure. And both of 212 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:16,010 Dermot Ryan: the large stocks in Crown have significantly invested in their 213 00:12:16,010 --> 00:12:19,570 Dermot Ryan: hotels offering over the last couple of years. They're not 214 00:12:19,570 --> 00:12:22,429 Dermot Ryan: really caught up in that supply shortage of tradies and 215 00:12:22,429 --> 00:12:25,480 Dermot Ryan: builders to improve their properties in a time of very 216 00:12:25,480 --> 00:12:27,370 Dermot Ryan: high demand in the broader economy. 217 00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:30,610 Sean Aylmer: It's going to be a very interesting 2022, Dermot. Thank you 218 00:12:30,610 --> 00:12:31,880 Sean Aylmer: for talking to Fear and Greed. 219 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:33,230 Dermot Ryan: Thanks very much, Sean. 220 00:12:33,490 --> 00:12:36,929 Sean Aylmer: That was Dermot Ryan, Australian Equities portfolio manager at AMP 221 00:12:37,059 --> 00:12:39,820 Sean Aylmer: Capital. This is the Fear and Greed Daily Interview. Join 222 00:12:39,820 --> 00:12:42,310 Sean Aylmer: me every morning for the full Fear and Greed podcast 223 00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:44,709 Sean Aylmer: with all the business news you need to know. I'm 224 00:12:44,710 --> 00:12:46,230 Sean Aylmer: Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.