WEBVTT - Inside the drama at Nine and ABC

0:00:03.800 --> 0:00:06.920
<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

0:00:07.000 --> 0:00:14.480
<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, May thirty one. Missing mum Bronwyn Winfield told

0:00:14.560 --> 0:00:17.759
<v Speaker 1>a male friend she was being stalked and harassed by

0:00:17.760 --> 0:00:22.119
<v Speaker 1>her estranged husband before she vanished. That's a revelation in

0:00:22.160 --> 0:00:26.200
<v Speaker 1>the newest episode of The Australian's latest investigative podcast, It's

0:00:26.239 --> 0:00:30.600
<v Speaker 1>called Bronwen and subscribers can hear episode three right now

0:00:30.880 --> 0:00:36.760
<v Speaker 1>at Bronwen podcast dot com. Hi drama in the Australian

0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:40.599
<v Speaker 1>media with allegations of misconduct at Channel nine and a

0:00:40.640 --> 0:00:45.400
<v Speaker 1>senior ABC journalist rebuked by the boss in today's episode,

0:00:45.520 --> 0:00:56.080
<v Speaker 1>The Real Life Soapy inside Australia's mainstream media. In the

0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.880
<v Speaker 1>Folklore of Australian Media, the glory days of Channel nine

0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:04.080
<v Speaker 1>from the nineteen eighties to the early two thousands were unrivaled.

0:01:04.520 --> 0:01:10.600
<v Speaker 1>When you want news, nine hasn't covered booze, partying, office romance,

0:01:10.800 --> 0:01:20.560
<v Speaker 1>boardroom machinations and newsroom stouchers. It was blokey and beery

0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:24.440
<v Speaker 1>and famous for big executive pay packets and lots of

0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:38.360
<v Speaker 1>great journalism. They spent millions on ads and they even

0:01:38.440 --> 0:01:52.800
<v Speaker 1>had a theme song performed by John Simon. Nobody's having

0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:55.760
<v Speaker 1>fun at nine, just at the moment, and it started

0:01:55.840 --> 0:01:59.280
<v Speaker 1>with a story broken in Me Australian by media editor

0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:03.920
<v Speaker 1>James Madden and reporter Sophie Ellsworth about allegations of sexual

0:02:03.960 --> 0:02:08.160
<v Speaker 1>harassment against former News and Current Affairs boss Darren Wick.

0:02:08.960 --> 0:02:11.800
<v Speaker 1>Now it's important to note Wick, who's always had a

0:02:11.800 --> 0:02:15.840
<v Speaker 1>good reputation as a newsman, hasn't commented on the allegations

0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.359
<v Speaker 1>and nothing has been proven against him. But there are

0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:23.480
<v Speaker 1>claims of a toxic newsroom culture where speaking out just

0:02:23.840 --> 0:02:28.079
<v Speaker 1>wasn't an option, a culture that hadn't changed since those

0:02:28.320 --> 0:02:33.200
<v Speaker 1>so called glory days. I caught up with our media

0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:37.880
<v Speaker 1>editor James Madden. It feels like what we're seeing now

0:02:38.000 --> 0:02:40.880
<v Speaker 1>is the modern age looking back on a real throwback

0:02:40.919 --> 0:02:42.200
<v Speaker 1>to that time, doesn't it James?

0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it does, in an era which most workplaces in

0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.840
<v Speaker 2>Australia have left behind long ago. I suppose one of

0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:52.919
<v Speaker 2>the saddest elements for me and pursuing this story was

0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:55.960
<v Speaker 2>hearing from so many women who felt they had no

0:02:56.120 --> 0:02:58.960
<v Speaker 2>recourse at nine, no one to trust, no one to

0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:02.160
<v Speaker 2>lodge a complain with. They didn't have faith in the

0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:06.240
<v Speaker 2>HR department, which is pretty damning in itself. You could

0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:10.200
<v Speaker 2>probably argue that the test for any workplace in terms

0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:14.800
<v Speaker 2>of staff management is the degree of support available to staff.

0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:17.960
<v Speaker 2>The people I've spoken to have said there was no

0:03:18.040 --> 0:03:19.040
<v Speaker 2>support available.

0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.280
<v Speaker 1>It's emerged now that he left Nine with a million

0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:27.160
<v Speaker 1>dollar payout. Now television's very famous for enormous salaries, that

0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:29.280
<v Speaker 1>is still a huge amount of money to give someone

0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:31.400
<v Speaker 1>who was pretty close to retirement age, isn't it.

0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes, And it's infuriated Nine employees on the floor. It's

0:03:36.280 --> 0:03:41.080
<v Speaker 2>certainly the case that nine has long celebrated its robust culture,

0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.000
<v Speaker 2>but it seems the network and the wider media company

0:03:45.000 --> 0:03:48.360
<v Speaker 2>perhaps has been slow to evolve, whereas the rest of

0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:52.560
<v Speaker 2>corporate Australia has long moved past the era where harassment

0:03:52.640 --> 0:03:54.920
<v Speaker 2>of women can be swept under the carpet.

0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.520
<v Speaker 1>As I said, you broke this story. It was then

0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:02.280
<v Speaker 1>widely covered in other media outlets, but it took several

0:04:02.400 --> 0:04:06.520
<v Speaker 1>days Fort nine's own print publications, The Sydney Morning Herald,

0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:09.040
<v Speaker 1>The Age and the Financial Review to get involved in

0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.760
<v Speaker 1>that coverage. When they did, they went pretty hard, didn't they, James,

0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.560
<v Speaker 1>Given that the person who's alleged to have overseen that

0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.440
<v Speaker 1>one million dollar payout is still in charge of Nine.

0:04:18.839 --> 0:04:21.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, it was certainly noticeable how strident the criticism was

0:04:21.880 --> 0:04:26.200
<v Speaker 2>coming out of Nine's publishing division. Investigative reporter Cape mcclemont

0:04:26.240 --> 0:04:28.440
<v Speaker 2>certainly wrote a fierce piece that was on the page

0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:31.360
<v Speaker 2>one of the weekend edition on Saturday. But it's also

0:04:31.480 --> 0:04:35.039
<v Speaker 2>interesting to note how unusual it was as the coverage developed,

0:04:35.279 --> 0:04:38.520
<v Speaker 2>how critical they were of Mike sneeze Bee, and how

0:04:38.600 --> 0:04:43.640
<v Speaker 2>open those master heads were just speculating about his likely demise.

0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:48.880
<v Speaker 1>Nine's overall board met on Thursday. How does eruptive? Do

0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:51.240
<v Speaker 1>you think this issue has been for the functioning of

0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:52.240
<v Speaker 1>the business.

0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.120
<v Speaker 2>Hugely disruptive and in fact Nine is admitting how damaging

0:04:56.360 --> 0:05:00.599
<v Speaker 2>the past fortnight's revelations have been on the business. There's

0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:05.280
<v Speaker 2>certainly been strong indications from inside nine that the CEO,

0:05:05.400 --> 0:05:09.280
<v Speaker 2>Mike Sneezebe and the chair Peter Costello appear to be

0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:12.720
<v Speaker 2>at cross purposes in how to handle the crisis, and

0:05:12.720 --> 0:05:16.159
<v Speaker 2>perhaps more importantly, the five other members of the board

0:05:16.320 --> 0:05:20.839
<v Speaker 2>are understood to be deeply upset and shocked in fact,

0:05:21.240 --> 0:05:23.440
<v Speaker 2>at the way the matter has been handled.

0:05:24.080 --> 0:05:26.240
<v Speaker 1>Do you think Mike Sneezebey can keep his job and

0:05:26.240 --> 0:05:27.719
<v Speaker 1>Peter Costello can keep his job.

0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:31.760
<v Speaker 2>I think mister Sneezeby faces an uphill battle to save

0:05:31.839 --> 0:05:34.559
<v Speaker 2>his job. Not only is there talk that he's lost

0:05:34.600 --> 0:05:38.560
<v Speaker 2>support of the board, it seems quite clear that journalists

0:05:38.600 --> 0:05:43.080
<v Speaker 2>on the editorial flaws across nine are furious at the

0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:48.560
<v Speaker 2>way nine's leadership have pursued this issue. One thing that

0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:51.719
<v Speaker 2>might save mister Sneezby in the short term is his

0:05:51.800 --> 0:05:56.480
<v Speaker 2>announcement earlier this week of a wide ranging internal investigation

0:05:57.279 --> 0:06:02.200
<v Speaker 2>into the culture at nine. He argued that until that

0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:07.120
<v Speaker 2>investigation has been completed, mister Sneezeby is safe at the top.

0:06:07.640 --> 0:06:08.760
<v Speaker 1>And what about Peter Costello.

0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.159
<v Speaker 2>Well, Peter Costllo has been nine chair men for close

0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:16.400
<v Speaker 2>to thirteen years now, and he's been noticeably silent over

0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:19.680
<v Speaker 2>the past ten days. His silence hasn't gone down too

0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.760
<v Speaker 2>well inside nine either. Plenty of people I've spoken to

0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:25.240
<v Speaker 2>have said, you would think at a moment like this,

0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:30.800
<v Speaker 2>mister Costello would stand up and express regret at the

0:06:30.839 --> 0:06:34.440
<v Speaker 2>toxic culture that has flourished under his leadership, and perhaps

0:06:34.480 --> 0:06:38.719
<v Speaker 2>be more forthright about where nine will go in the future.

0:06:39.640 --> 0:06:43.080
<v Speaker 2>To date, he hasn't spoken publicly following the revelation of

0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:47.160
<v Speaker 2>the allegations against Darrenwick. Of course, the other major headache

0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.760
<v Speaker 2>for nine at the moment is its share price. It's

0:06:49.800 --> 0:06:53.040
<v Speaker 2>full of three point seven percent in the last five days,

0:06:53.240 --> 0:06:55.760
<v Speaker 2>down to dollar forty two, which means in the three

0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:59.360
<v Speaker 2>years since mister Sneezebe has been CEO, the share price

0:06:59.600 --> 0:07:04.720
<v Speaker 2>has high coming up.

0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:07.400
<v Speaker 1>Over at the ABC, there's a different kind of drama

0:07:07.680 --> 0:07:11.960
<v Speaker 1>with a superstar journalist reprimanded by her bosses. All the

0:07:11.960 --> 0:07:16.280
<v Speaker 1>big media stories including news corps restructure, Network ten's legal

0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:20.200
<v Speaker 1>adventures and Channel seven's leadership eruptions are in The Australian,

0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.880
<v Speaker 1>with our media team breaking all the big yarns each

0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:26.400
<v Speaker 1>Monday and throughout the week. You can subscribe for a

0:07:26.440 --> 0:07:29.200
<v Speaker 1>lot less than a CEO salary to get all our

0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:32.960
<v Speaker 1>journalism twenty four to seven. We'll be back after this break.

0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:47.360
<v Speaker 1>I know that.

0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:50.680
<v Speaker 3>On the night of Paduttance address and replying to the budget,

0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:56.120
<v Speaker 3>I was sitting there with this terrible chill running through me, thinking, okay,

0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:57.600
<v Speaker 3>we're back into this territory.

0:07:58.560 --> 0:08:02.320
<v Speaker 1>This is the ABC's Laura Tingle, who's previously worked at

0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:06.080
<v Speaker 1>a number of other outlets, including The Australian. She was

0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:10.800
<v Speaker 1>speaking at the Sydney Writers Festival last weekend. If you

0:08:10.840 --> 0:08:14.680
<v Speaker 1>didn't catch it, Tingle said she felt a terrible chill

0:08:15.160 --> 0:08:19.400
<v Speaker 1>when listening to Peter Dutton, the Opposition leader, making this speech.

0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:23.800
<v Speaker 4>Amidst this housing crisis. Labor is bringing in one point

0:08:23.880 --> 0:08:28.320
<v Speaker 4>sixty seven million migrants over five years, more than the

0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:32.720
<v Speaker 4>population of Adelaide. We celebrate the contributions of migrants over

0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.560
<v Speaker 4>many decades or a great country because of what they

0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:39.160
<v Speaker 4>have helped to build, and the great Australian achievement of

0:08:39.200 --> 0:08:42.320
<v Speaker 4>modern Australia is something that we celebrate every day. But

0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:46.719
<v Speaker 4>by getting the migration policy settings right, the Coalition can

0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:50.640
<v Speaker 4>free up more houses for Australians. The other impact Australians

0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:53.400
<v Speaker 4>are feeling from the Albanesi government's poor management of the

0:08:53.440 --> 0:08:57.680
<v Speaker 4>migration program is from congestion on our roads and pressure

0:08:57.720 --> 0:09:00.960
<v Speaker 4>on our existing services which are stretched, like trying to

0:09:00.960 --> 0:09:02.080
<v Speaker 4>get into see a GP.

0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Tingle went on saying she had a sudden flash of

0:09:05.960 --> 0:09:08.760
<v Speaker 1>people turning up to try to rent property or at

0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:14.240
<v Speaker 1>auction and being abused for being different as.

0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:17.680
<v Speaker 3>That basically he has given them license to be abused.

0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.240
<v Speaker 1>Tingle said, I mean we are a racist country and

0:09:21.280 --> 0:09:22.439
<v Speaker 1>it's very depressing.

0:09:22.960 --> 0:09:25.360
<v Speaker 3>I mean, we are a racist capulet's face it. We

0:09:25.400 --> 0:09:28.280
<v Speaker 3>always have been, and it's very depressing. But to give

0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.720
<v Speaker 3>license like that I find profoundly depressing and a terrible

0:09:32.720 --> 0:09:34.000
<v Speaker 3>prospect for the next election.

0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:39.920
<v Speaker 1>Here's Coalition Senator Sarah Henderson at Senate Estimates on Thursday night,

0:09:40.200 --> 0:09:43.440
<v Speaker 1>grilling ABC Managing director David Anderson.

0:09:44.160 --> 0:09:47.200
<v Speaker 3>I'm mister Anderson, will you apologize to mister Dutton for

0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:49.640
<v Speaker 3>the comments of Laura Tingle.

0:09:55.800 --> 0:10:01.520
<v Speaker 1>Green's Senator Sarah Hanson Young chimes in, you don't want racism,

0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:07.360
<v Speaker 1>don't peddle it or order, and Anderson replies.

0:10:07.480 --> 0:10:12.400
<v Speaker 5>The Senator, I am. I am quite regretful that these

0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:16.679
<v Speaker 5>statements were made without the usual qualification they would normally have,

0:10:17.679 --> 0:10:23.000
<v Speaker 5>and therefore that actually hurt hurt the ABC. I think

0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:27.360
<v Speaker 5>Mistingles suffered for it, and I think that it allowed

0:10:27.960 --> 0:10:32.199
<v Speaker 5>that when these comments are put together sometimes it allows

0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:35.240
<v Speaker 5>for other people to take a debate into a different direction.

0:10:35.960 --> 0:10:40.520
<v Speaker 5>I am generally sorry that that happened. I wish it

0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:41.559
<v Speaker 5>hadn't have happened.

0:10:42.520 --> 0:10:46.880
<v Speaker 1>Jingle's remarks were broken by the Australians Media reporter Sophie Ellsworth.

0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:49.880
<v Speaker 1>She's media editor James Madden.

0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:53.640
<v Speaker 2>I was shocked, to be honest, Claire. It basically exposed

0:10:53.840 --> 0:11:00.400
<v Speaker 2>the ABC to severe criticism given her obvious lack of impartiality. Firstly,

0:11:00.480 --> 0:11:05.439
<v Speaker 2>she said unequivocally that Australia is a racist country. Secondly,

0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:09.240
<v Speaker 2>she took aim at Peter Dutton specifically over his migration

0:11:09.360 --> 0:11:13.360
<v Speaker 2>and housing policies, and suggested that his policies were so

0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:18.800
<v Speaker 2>divisive that ordinary Australians would now have an understandable license

0:11:19.080 --> 0:11:23.840
<v Speaker 2>to abuse migrants at events such as home inspections and auctions.

0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:26.839
<v Speaker 1>The Australian has a lot of senior journalists who write

0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:30.280
<v Speaker 1>news and they also make commentary. Why is it different

0:11:30.360 --> 0:11:31.760
<v Speaker 1>for someone who works at the ABC.

0:11:32.400 --> 0:11:35.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, put simply, journalists who work at the ABC are

0:11:35.679 --> 0:11:40.480
<v Speaker 2>bound by the ABC Charter. The ABC Charter demands balance,

0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:45.720
<v Speaker 2>fair mindedness and impartiality. That's a non negotiable. A lot

0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:50.280
<v Speaker 2>of ABC journalists appear not necessarily to like those guidelines,

0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:53.040
<v Speaker 2>but they're there in black and white, and they're there

0:11:53.080 --> 0:11:56.800
<v Speaker 2>for a reason. The ABC is the public broadcaster, and

0:11:56.880 --> 0:12:00.640
<v Speaker 2>without impartiality, it's reason for existence is no longer.

0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:03.920
<v Speaker 1>It's a bit of a vicious circle, isn't it. James

0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.080
<v Speaker 1>because every time a coalition government comes in, people at

0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:09.920
<v Speaker 1>the ABC fear that there's going to be retribution that

0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:13.040
<v Speaker 1>their budget will become Does the coalition punish the ABC

0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:15.199
<v Speaker 1>when it has the opportunity.

0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.760
<v Speaker 2>That's certainly opened for debate, And that's certainly a perception

0:12:18.880 --> 0:12:23.040
<v Speaker 2>that has existed in the past, most recently under Tony

0:12:23.040 --> 0:12:26.040
<v Speaker 2>Abbott when there was an argument or indeed a debate

0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:29.600
<v Speaker 2>over the indexing of the ABC funding. But Peter Dutton,

0:12:29.640 --> 0:12:32.959
<v Speaker 2>in comments on Ray Hadley's program, made it very clear

0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:37.200
<v Speaker 2>that the ABC had nailed its political colors to the mast.

0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:40.240
<v Speaker 2>Tingles comments on the Weekend were in no way balanced

0:12:40.520 --> 0:12:44.320
<v Speaker 2>or fair minded. She has expressed regret that she only

0:12:44.360 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 2>had a limited time frame in which to explain the

0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:50.400
<v Speaker 2>nuance of her argument, but the bottom line is she

0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:54.240
<v Speaker 2>said what she said, she didn't display any nuance and

0:12:54.480 --> 0:13:00.160
<v Speaker 2>effectively said that Peter Dutton was fanning racism within Australia.

0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:04.480
<v Speaker 1>Dingle has been formally reprimanded by News boss Justin Stevens,

0:13:04.520 --> 0:13:07.640
<v Speaker 1>who released a statement saying Tingle's remarks would not have

0:13:07.720 --> 0:13:12.800
<v Speaker 1>met babc's standards for on air balance. Babc's new chair

0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:16.000
<v Speaker 1>Kim Williams, who used to run News Corps Australia has

0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:18.880
<v Speaker 1>said anyone who doesn't want to be impartial shouldn't work

0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:19.480
<v Speaker 1>at the ABC.

0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.120
<v Speaker 2>It is a test for Williams. He made clear that

0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.840
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't going to stand for any breach of the

0:13:26.960 --> 0:13:31.040
<v Speaker 2>editorial guidelines and you can be assured that William's fingerprints

0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:34.440
<v Speaker 2>were all over that statement released by Justin Stephens.

0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.520
<v Speaker 1>James Madden is The Australian's Media editor and you can

0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:49.840
<v Speaker 1>check out all his journalism by subscribing at The Australian

0:13:49.960 --> 0:13:53.000
<v Speaker 1>dot com dot au. Thanks for joining us on the

0:13:53.000 --> 0:13:57.600
<v Speaker 1>front this week. Our team is Christian Amyot, Joshua Burton, Leotsammaglue,

0:13:57.640 --> 0:14:01.280
<v Speaker 1>Matthew Condon, Jasper League, Tiffany Dim Back and make Clare

0:14:01.360 --> 0:14:04.400
<v Speaker 1>hobby