Speaker 1: She was the first time met us.
Speaker 2: Everything to me, having now spent so much time with Christy,
Speaker 2: this is hard to watch. I'm looking back at the
Speaker 2: family's first press conference from the Channel nine archives and
Speaker 2: my heart is breaking. Christie's told me so much about
Speaker 2: this time in her life. She's pale, bewildered. And it's
Speaker 2: just a week after Rochelle's death. It's June two thousand
Speaker 2: and one. There are no clear suspects, and detectives are
Speaker 2: desperate for more people to come forward with information. Putting
Speaker 2: the family's grief on display is their strongest play, so
Speaker 2: they asked the family to make their first public appeal
Speaker 2: and the child's would do anything for answers. At this point,
Speaker 2: Graham sits in the middle of a long trestle table
Speaker 2: with his wife and to his left, and then Christy
Speaker 2: beside her. They're all holding hands as they face them media,
Speaker 2: their sorrow raw and visible.
Speaker 3: Love I very much and we're always will And if
Speaker 3: anyone's got any knowledge, you know, to help us in
Speaker 3: our party, then come forward.
Speaker 2: I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode two of
Speaker 2: Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is
Speaker 2: the untold story of Rochelle Charles, a twenty three year
Speaker 2: old who was brutally murdered. Her killer has never been caught.
Speaker 4: The four of us were so close.
Speaker 5: I think this sort of a thing would either rip
Speaker 5: a family apart or bring them closer together. And it
Speaker 5: definitely brought the three of us close together. But we
Speaker 5: kind of grieved away from one another. We would talk
Speaker 5: about her and talk about the case all the time,
Speaker 5: but being upset and crying, and you know, we didn't
Speaker 5: do that in front of each other, which is interesting.
Speaker 5: You know, if I saw Mom upset, that would make
Speaker 5: my grief worse, and same with Dad, and likewise, we
Speaker 5: just talked about her and the case and happy times.
Speaker 5: But yeah, we kind of fell apart away from each other.
Speaker 5: It was only eighteen at the time and grew up
Speaker 5: very quickly. Yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 2: And did you go into a bit of a fog?
Speaker 2: I know you've described before that you don't remember a
Speaker 2: lot of that period after that, which is totally understandable.
Speaker 2: So how did you pick yourself back up?
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 5: I don't remember that. Probably the next six months are
Speaker 5: very blurry. I was very angry, I was very sad.
Speaker 5: I was very angry, rightly, so, yeah, And I was
Speaker 5: an eighteen year old with attitude anyway, but I was
Speaker 5: just angry.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I don't honestly don't remember much. I do remember that day.
Speaker 5: This is horrible, this part. I didn't talk to Mum
Speaker 5: and Dad.
Speaker 4: For a little while.
Speaker 5: I just sort of stayed away because I didn't want
Speaker 5: to see them feel that.
Speaker 4: I just didn't want to say it.
Speaker 5: But later on I was sitting on my bed and
Speaker 5: Dad was sitting next to me, and I was born,
Speaker 5: and he was cuddling me, and we're talking about it,
Speaker 5: and he said there's more. When I said what and
Speaker 5: he said when they put her down at to row
Speaker 5: while they set her on fire. I don't know how
Speaker 5: Dad told me that. Then he was crying and I
Speaker 5: was screaming, and.
Speaker 4: It was horrible. That's very clear in my mind.
Speaker 7: Poor dad, Have you ever thought why me? I've lost
Speaker 7: so much over there is? I never say why me?
Speaker 7: I just think of why all of it? There's some
Speaker 7: awful people out there. She was so good.
Speaker 4: I just don't.
Speaker 2: Understand how do you process new grief.
Speaker 8: You never get over it, never, but you just learn
Speaker 8: to manage it. And yeah, you have to get on
Speaker 8: with life because I've still got another daughter and granddaughter
Speaker 8: there so and you can't put yourself out there and
Speaker 8: be complaining and carrying on because it just brings everyone
Speaker 8: else down and it's not good for yourself. You've just
Speaker 8: got to cop it and always wonder why and to
Speaker 8: eventually hopefully I find closure. I don't see there's closing anything,
Speaker 8: but it's just satisfaction that hopefully we can find out
Speaker 8: who dio this. I'd just like to see a person
Speaker 8: off the streets. No, I'd like to be in a
Speaker 8: room with him for five minutes if you don't just
Speaker 8: stick him and I.
Speaker 4: No rules.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's understandable. He's taken so much from you. He
Speaker 2: has no idea, oh idea really. Rochelle might have moved
Speaker 2: to Bargo for the peace in the space a small
Speaker 2: community offered, but the people of Bargo had encountered evil before.
Speaker 5: The nation was shocked by the most brutal of crimes,
Speaker 5: the rape and murder of Bargo schoolgirl Ebonie Simpson.
Speaker 9: She was Daddy's little girl, nine year old ebone Simpson.
Speaker 10: She was abducted, raped and thrown alive into a dam,
Speaker 10: where she drowned.
Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety two, nine years before Rochelle's murder, Ebonie's
Speaker 2: innocent smile was seen in the minds of Australian parents.
Speaker 2: I remember when it happened. I was the same age
Speaker 2: as Ebonie, nine years old, and I wasn't allowed to
Speaker 2: walk to school anymore like so many other children. Her
Speaker 2: pedophile killer, Andrew Peter Garforth, was senten to life in
Speaker 2: prison and his papers marked never to be released.
Speaker 6: My name is Mick Ashwood, a police officer from New
Speaker 6: South Wales Police Force between nineteen eighty four and twenty ten,
Speaker 6: twenty six year service. I retired in twenty ten as
Speaker 6: a detective inspector.
Speaker 2: Mick Ashwood recalls escorting Garforth to the Bargo Dam where
Speaker 2: he drowned little Ebony.
Speaker 6: We call miss a Girl's Missing and that was the
Speaker 6: one case I've worked on where I would say every
Speaker 6: decision from the top down was made, was excellent. When
Speaker 6: the young offender, when he admitted to what he'd done,
Speaker 6: then wanted to show where the body was, so I
Speaker 6: just drove him with the others out to the scene.
Speaker 6: We've found a body later in the dam.
Speaker 2: Garforth was even part of the volunteer search group pretending
Speaker 2: to look for Ebony before he began to unravel. Cases
Speaker 2: like that, they stick with you and Mick would never forget.
Speaker 2: When Ebeney's family met Rachelle's.
Speaker 6: The irony is grand child's came to speak to one
Speaker 6: of the detective's training courses and Ebide Simpson's mum was
Speaker 6: there and just you know, I broke down because it's
Speaker 6: the first some way I'd put my head into the
Speaker 6: world of the victim, you know, And so because you know,
Speaker 6: her pink lunchbox was floating on the water when we
Speaker 6: got there and the lights were turned on. It was
Speaker 6: only in the two thousands, ten years later that it
Speaker 6: got to me.
Speaker 2: Two very horrendous crimes connected to Bargo. How does that
Speaker 2: change your community?
Speaker 6: Well, it is a stigma, and people say the old
Speaker 6: usual thing, blame the media. Don't want the media in here,
Speaker 6: and that's I understand that, But it's the evolution of
Speaker 6: a rural area that into urbanization. Garforth was a guy
Speaker 6: who got out of jail, came over and start up
Speaker 6: a new life here and was just looking for another victim.
Speaker 6: Could have been any area.
Speaker 2: And at what point did you join the murder investigation
Speaker 2: of Rochelle Child's I.
Speaker 6: Think it was about one year after the death occurred.
Speaker 6: I was asked by my boss to undertake an intelligence
Speaker 6: review and assist the local police who are leading the investigation.
Speaker 2: And how would you describe the investigation when you joined it.
Speaker 6: The initial meetings didn't occur in the normal way at
Speaker 6: a police station. They occurred at coffee shops, which was
Speaker 6: a bit unusual. They had five or six persons of interest,
Speaker 6: and how the position they were in there was sort
Speaker 6: of stuck. My initial concern was after a year homicide
Speaker 6: investigation generally does not have five or six persons of interest,
Speaker 6: or they were referred to at the time as suspects.
Speaker 6: It's quite unusual. It's usually one two usually that's the case.
Speaker 6: And that highlighted to me there was an issue of
Speaker 6: fundamental issue with the investigation.
Speaker 2: Rochelle's murder was always comples from a police perspective. They
Speaker 2: quickly came to the realization they were hunting an extremely
Speaker 2: dangerous sex offender. But this wasn't a random attack. Detectives
Speaker 2: believe Rochelle knew her killer and he was hell bent
Speaker 2: on covering his tracks. Rochelle's body was badly burned, destroying
Speaker 2: forensic evidence. There was a lot of finger pointing and
Speaker 2: someone was spreading rumors.
Speaker 9: Graham Child's wife Ann and daughter Christie last saw a
Speaker 9: twenty three year old Rochelle last Wednesday night.
Speaker 2: The following evening she was murdered.
Speaker 4: Don't know something like that could happen here.
Speaker 2: Rachelle's parents say their daughter's body cannot truly be put
Speaker 2: to rest until it's known who is responsible for her death.
Speaker 11: We heard that she had been tied to a tree
Speaker 11: and set on fire and possibly tortured. That was some
Speaker 11: very early reports. Police were not, you know, sharing a
Speaker 11: lot of information during investigations, and that's quite common. They
Speaker 11: want to keep a few things secret. So these torture allegations,
Speaker 11: the tying up, that took us a long time to
Speaker 11: even have that dispelled, that she'd been tied to a tree.
Speaker 11: My name is Mark murray On, the crime editor of
Speaker 11: the Sydney Daily Telegraph. You've got a small country town.
Speaker 11: They're very very protective those communities. That also made it
Speaker 11: hard to get accurate information. It also means there's a
Speaker 11: lot of like pub talk rumor, so getting to the
Speaker 11: truth of what happened or what was being investigated. Was
Speaker 11: really very hard, especially back then, because in a town
Speaker 11: like that, you can't tell me that somebody doesn't know
Speaker 11: what's going on. That killers do share.
Speaker 2: But do they always share the truth. Rachelle was popular,
Speaker 2: She had no known enemies. She was single, gorgeous, friendly,
Speaker 2: and maybe a little naive. She was only twenty three.
Speaker 2: He from her best friend Lisa and work mate Fiona
Speaker 2: about their final conversations with Rachelle.
Speaker 12: I gave her a serving. She had told me at
Speaker 12: that point that she was going to a rebels clubhouse,
Speaker 12: and I just ripped into her and I said, that
Speaker 12: is idiotic, stupid, don't you dare?
Speaker 2: Do you know how dangerous that could be?
Speaker 12: You know, just ripped into her, and in my head
Speaker 12: she was going to a particular clubhouse, but probably because
Speaker 12: that's the only one I knew of.
Speaker 13: The only time she'd ever mentioned rebels to me was
Speaker 13: that she'd been invited to a party and would I
Speaker 13: ever go? And I said, no way, and that was
Speaker 13: the end of the conversation.
Speaker 12: She kind of fought back a little bit, and I
Speaker 12: think we hung up on each other in fury, but
Speaker 12: she ended up texting me back afterwards. Saying, you know,
Speaker 12: you're a good mate, Lisa, and I get where you're
Speaker 12: coming from. But don't worry. You know what, I trust
Speaker 12: this Sash person, which was the person that was going
Speaker 12: to take her there, and I'll be fine. So I
Speaker 12: think that that put me at peace a little bit.
Speaker 12: But also I was still twenty three and fiery, and
Speaker 12: so I turned my phone off. I'll never stop regretting
Speaker 12: turning my phone off because she died that night and
Speaker 12: she could have been calling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's only one person or people responsible for Rochelle's
Speaker 2: death and it's not her loved ones.
Speaker 4: Logic knows that, ah bo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the Sash Lise is referring to is Sash milchah
Speaker 2: Reck Senior. He's one of the first persons of interest
Speaker 2: police explored. Remember nine pois were identified and scrutinized. At
Speaker 2: the time, he was a senior member of the Bargo
Speaker 2: chapter of the Rebel Outlaw motorcycle Gang and he also
Speaker 2: owned a car yard in Bargo. You can imagine after
Speaker 2: Rochelle's murder it was a pretty unnerving time for locals.
Speaker 2: Everyone was talking about it and they wanted to know
Speaker 2: who did it. A killer was on the.
Speaker 4: Loose, cropper in a Larma General Checks.
Speaker 2: Sash and other members of the biking group were hauled
Speaker 2: in for questioning. Here's the Daily Telegraph crime editor Mark Mourray. Again,
Speaker 2: there were.
Speaker 11: Rumors that the potentially had some involvement with bikes. You know,
Speaker 11: there was suggestions that the Bargo had a biking influence.
Speaker 11: And we do know country towns bikes, especially some of
Speaker 11: the lower members, they make their money selling dope, and
Speaker 11: particularly in those smaller towns like that. So there were
Speaker 11: those rumors that she could have been involved with the
Speaker 11: biking member or just knew some of them, which would
Speaker 11: be hard not to. I suppose if you're a young person,
Speaker 11: they'd probably only be a pub or two in town,
Speaker 11: so and a rumor would fly she might have had
Speaker 11: a beer with one.
Speaker 2: We did hear that police were taking the rumors seriously.
Speaker 2: They were investigating whether Rochelle was involved with the Rebels
Speaker 2: bikei club and was she selling drugs.
Speaker 13: I'd never ever seen her with drugs. If she was
Speaker 13: selling drugs, she'd have had money. If she was selling drugs,
Speaker 13: she'd have probably been doing.
Speaker 4: Drugs like that.
Speaker 13: It just makes no sense whatsoever, and it makes me angry.
Speaker 4: But it was sort of like a case of Chinese whispers.
Speaker 5: And you know, the Rebels are known for not being
Speaker 5: nice people and for being into drugs and crime and
Speaker 5: things like that, so they're an easy target to point
Speaker 5: the finger out. And it's an interesting story.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 5: I heard someone say that she was dealing drugs for
Speaker 5: the Rebels and she ripped them off. I can tell
Speaker 5: you for free. She was lucky to put more than
Speaker 5: five dollars at a time in her tank at the
Speaker 5: petrol station. She was broke, she was terrible money. She
Speaker 5: didn't have any money.
Speaker 2: Let's explore those two points. Was Rochelle involved with bikeis
Speaker 2: and could she have been dealing drugs? First, Rochelle's friends
Speaker 2: say she'd been invited to a party at the Rebels clubhouse,
Speaker 2: but she'd never mentioned anything like that before, so they
Speaker 2: were shocked. And then after she was killed, a rumor
Speaker 2: has started the bikes were responsible because she owed them
Speaker 2: money for drugs. Police weren't ruling anything out, but let's
Speaker 2: look at the evidence. The autopsy results found no traces
Speaker 2: of drugs or alcohol in Rochelle's system, No drugs were
Speaker 2: found in her home, car or any of her belongings,
Speaker 2: and When police went through her phone records, they found
Speaker 2: nothing out of the ordinary. Rochelle was known to ask
Speaker 2: her family for help if she was short on cash,
Speaker 2: so turning to drug dealing before going to them would
Speaker 2: be very out of character. And if Rochelle was involved
Speaker 2: with bi kids and was in that much trouble, wouldn't
Speaker 2: her friends and family have noticed some kind of change
Speaker 2: in her behavior. There are just so many things about
Speaker 2: this case that don't add up. Someone who's been helping
Speaker 2: Christy piece it all together over the years is her
Speaker 2: best friend, Mindy Wicks. Minnie's a self confessed sluice with
Speaker 2: a sharp mind. She's consumed by Christie's quest to find justice.
Speaker 4: We do awkward?
Speaker 5: Well, see is that part of what you love about Mint?
Speaker 4: She snorts.
Speaker 14: It's one of the first things I noticed about her.
Speaker 4: But that's on did you when you laugh?
Speaker 6: Ad?
Speaker 4: How would I describe Mindy as the best friend?
Speaker 14: She's incredibly loyal, hilarious, She's hilarious, she's feeding me lies, Chris.
Speaker 14: She's incredibly loyal, incredibly kind, incredibly giving, pretty fierce backs
Speaker 14: the younger dogs. She reminds me of Rochelle in a
Speaker 14: lot of ways.
Speaker 15: How would I describe my friendship with Christie easy natural.
Speaker 4: It's just Christie.
Speaker 2: She's the best true story.
Speaker 15: Yeah, no, bullshit.
Speaker 4: Just she just loves you. That's true. I do.
Speaker 2: I it makes me angry.
Speaker 4: I'll just get angry.
Speaker 2: It's not right.
Speaker 15: It's twenty three years. Shouldn't have been twenty three days,
Speaker 15: shouldn't have happened.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so.
Speaker 15: I don't know what it would be like to be
Speaker 15: in that position, to ship position. I mean, it just
Speaker 15: makes me angry. They deserve it, they deserve to know.
Speaker 15: None of it should have happened in the first place.
Speaker 6: But to be.
Speaker 2: Waiting not knowing is.
Speaker 4: Shit.
Speaker 15: I don't know how she does it like it kills me.
Speaker 4: And yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 15: She is probably one of, if not the strongest person
Speaker 15: I know.
Speaker 4: She's just.
Speaker 15: I don't think she believes it, but she's pretty fierce herself.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 16: Already ready to blame always.
Speaker 12: I did.
Speaker 2: Chadwick, Christie and Mindy A going to have the words
Speaker 2: team shell tattooed on their legs. It's a tribute to
Speaker 2: Rachelle and also a symbol of their commitment to finding
Speaker 2: the truth.
Speaker 17: We're going to do exactly why Rochelle made it, How
Speaker 17: to make.
Speaker 18: That slight.
Speaker 17: I'd like to do it a little bit bigger than
Speaker 17: your okay, because you know something you want to hide.
Speaker 17: It's something that you want people to see. Is this
Speaker 17: something that Rachelle wrote?
Speaker 2: No, they've created the design by using Rochelle's handwriting.
Speaker 16: Did you put that together?
Speaker 17: And have just put that together?
Speaker 5: She got in trouble with the police, had a driving
Speaker 5: incident and she had written all over the statement from
Speaker 5: the cloth with all these arguments down the side about
Speaker 5: how wrong he was the chatty tattooist.
Speaker 2: Is Dash milcharek? He actually knew Rochelle. You've heard him
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier in relation to a party at the Rebels clubhouse?
Speaker 4: Is that little bits too bad?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 3: Didn't have.
Speaker 1: To that is awesome?
Speaker 17: Coo are.
Speaker 15: Sorry?
Speaker 4: Mum got another one.
Speaker 2: Christie is keen to speak to anyone connected to her
Speaker 2: sister's case. Do fill in the blanks.
Speaker 4: Did you fire Carl Fair?
Speaker 15: Or did she.
Speaker 4: Oh deah oh there.
Speaker 2: In two thousand and one, Sash lived in Bargo and
Speaker 2: he ran a business there called Sash Has Used Cars.
Speaker 2: His slogan was don't buy trash, see Sash and save cash.
Speaker 2: He was a well known character in town, either through
Speaker 2: his car yard or through his membership with the Rebels
Speaker 2: motorcycle club. As you just heard, Sasha had brought a
Speaker 2: car from Rochelle's boyfriend, and it was common practice to
Speaker 2: wheel and deal cars and parts between other businesses, which
Speaker 2: included Camden Holden where Rochelle and Fiona worked.
Speaker 17: So, guys, I meet with smaller caryards, we go and
Speaker 17: buy them from the big kayaks, same as where Rashaul worked.
Speaker 13: If he had needed anything brought down. She lived there,
Speaker 13: so it made sense that she would drop them in
Speaker 13: to the caryard. I assume if he needed stuff for
Speaker 13: his caryard, so it wasn't that usual for him to
Speaker 13: call and.
Speaker 4: Ask for her.
Speaker 13: In regards to parts, I would assume.
Speaker 17: I only remember her Camden holder trying to order a
Speaker 17: car for my wife. That's when I made the phone
Speaker 17: call they to see the that car come in. She
Speaker 17: thought was going to come in on a Tuesday or something,
Speaker 17: and was it a Thursday? It was a Thursday on
Speaker 17: it and then I said, she goes, We'm me Thursday
Speaker 17: afternoon should be in by then, you know, But it
Speaker 17: wasn't a been. That was the end of it. Yeah,
Speaker 17: and the young girl said that she left about five
Speaker 17: ten minutes ago. Whoever was on the counter, Yeah, and
Speaker 17: that was it.
Speaker 2: That call Sash made to Candid Holden asking for Rochelle
Speaker 2: just minutes after she was seen for the last time,
Speaker 2: were to put him on the police radar very early.
Speaker 2: And don't forget the Rebels biker group are considered by
Speaker 2: Australian authorities to be a criminal gang known for drug
Speaker 2: trafficking and other serious crimes. Not that we're suggesting Sash
Speaker 2: had any involvement in criminal activity. Sash says he met
Speaker 2: Rochelle through her boyfriend at the time, Shane Loakes. It
Speaker 2: was hard.
Speaker 17: It was hard, and everywhere you walked and then you're
Speaker 17: started hearing people saying this about you and saying that
Speaker 17: Abelian and saying you've done this and you've done that.
Speaker 17: You think, how do you get this shit? How does
Speaker 17: this come? You know, like fucking blame on me? What
Speaker 17: because I'm in a bike club fun. We're in the
Speaker 17: bikes and chase you know, chasing fun and whatever and
Speaker 17: drinking beer and you know it's and chasing that dream,
Speaker 17: going for arrive your mates and whatever. You know, Chilling people,
Speaker 17: you know, especially a woman like come on and over money. Please,
Speaker 17: No amount of money is gonna worth the while going
Speaker 17: in jail for you know what I mean, Like, come on, And.
Speaker 4: I didn't need to have definitely didn't have any money.
Speaker 17: And you know, I never ever, ever, ever, I never
Speaker 17: been in a house, never even knew where she lived.
Speaker 17: I knew that Shane and her lived up Bargo, you know,
Speaker 17: because I've filled out the paperwork obviously, and I knew
Speaker 17: there were locals because they would have said I live
Speaker 17: up the road. But yeah, that's that's about im. I
Speaker 17: don't know how many times I met shame with her,
Speaker 17: but it wasn't that many times, you know what I mean.
Speaker 17: It was many fank walls, the carcomers car coming. It
Speaker 17: was like early early early stages of the two. But
Speaker 17: she never ever, ever ever ever went never never never
Speaker 17: never was there ever. I even said the cops, it's footage.
Speaker 17: Take what you want, do you want who they ain't?
Speaker 17: And you've got to try and help out because the
Speaker 17: more you can help, the quicker This might have been resolved.
Speaker 17: But obviously it went nowhere. You know, they sort of
Speaker 17: knew where they were going. The cops knew where they
Speaker 17: were going. But I'm thinking that they had to eliminate
Speaker 17: all the other outside interference, which is probably what choked
Speaker 17: it all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know that probably better.
Speaker 17: You mean you know the whole story better than I do.
Speaker 17: I mean you only read in the papers, and then
Speaker 17: you can't really take that as gospel. I wish all
Speaker 17: the best with him. I hope this has made you happy.
Speaker 4: Yep, I love it.
Speaker 17: Don't get your mom. Don't get your mom bringing me
Speaker 17: shouting at you. Ken and my daughter at tattoo. She's
Speaker 17: a respectable school teacher.
Speaker 4: I'm a school teacher.
Speaker 2: Let's break this down. In a chat with Christy, Sash
Speaker 2: says he has nothing to hide. He's happy to answer
Speaker 2: her questions. I'm there and he's okay being recorded, but
Speaker 2: he doesn't agree to do an interview with me. He
Speaker 2: says that's because he doesn't trust the media, and he
Speaker 2: has had his fair share of news coverage over the years.
Speaker 2: I'm watching him closely and he doesn't appear nervous in
Speaker 2: any way. Sasha's emphatic that Rochelle never went to his clubhouse,
Speaker 2: nor did he invite her to a party there, but
Speaker 2: Lisa and Fiona both recall conversations with Rochelle about being
Speaker 2: invited to a rebels party. Police never found any proof
Speaker 2: there was a gathering at the clubhouse on the Thursday
Speaker 2: night Rochelle disappeared.
Speaker 4: She got along really well with Sash. She quite liked him.
Speaker 2: And Sash was initially a person of interest though, wasn't he?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: And I think because of the rumors about the Red
Speaker 5: Bulls by gang and Rachelle wanting to go to a
Speaker 5: rebels party, which I've never heard her say in life.
Speaker 5: Because of those rumors, and because of the fact that
Speaker 5: there's phone calls between them and things like that, because
Speaker 5: of their line of work, I think that's how he
Speaker 5: kind of became a person of interest.
Speaker 4: Well, Sash gave evidence at the inquest, but he answered
Speaker 4: every question. You know, he said that he wanted to help.
Speaker 4: Nothing worth mentioning came out.
Speaker 5: He just pretty much repeated what his statements were and
Speaker 5: there wasn't really anything suspicious.
Speaker 2: And do you think that someone has used the biki's
Speaker 2: rumor to divert police?
Speaker 4: Oh, definitely.
Speaker 5: It's a convenience escapegoat because of the stigma attached to
Speaker 5: bikis and bikey gangs, Sash and the rebels out it.
Speaker 4: You know Bargo, they've got a reputation.
Speaker 5: Even talking to one of my closest friends recently, they
Speaker 5: believed that the rebels were responsible because of that rumor
Speaker 5: that there's no evidence to back that up, in my opinion, fabricated.
Speaker 5: I'd be happily proven wrong if someone can tell me
Speaker 5: exactly what happened.
Speaker 2: In the end, it was Sasha's signature on a credit
Speaker 2: card receipt from a Chinese restaurant that confirmed his alibi.
Speaker 17: And they still hounded and hounded and hounded. I'm thinking,
Speaker 17: Jesus Christ, you know, come on, you're wasting time. I
Speaker 17: said to him, you're wasting time. Fucking he get on
Speaker 17: with it. Yeah, move, move, fucking wasting time, you know.
Speaker 17: Even And I remember I had cash on me. I
Speaker 17: sold of the cars and I didn't want to break
Speaker 17: and lucky I paid for it by credit card because
Speaker 17: I had to sign for him those days and get
Speaker 17: credit card. You signed it on the white slip, and
Speaker 17: I had I had money in my pocket. It was
Speaker 17: even number. I didn't want to break it. I'm all
Speaker 17: about even numbers. I do want to break it.
Speaker 4: That when you're turning up the volume in the car, yeah.
Speaker 17: Saying when I tell you, I've got to do it
Speaker 17: all perfect, and I'm very ac dc.
Speaker 2: You know, Damien Luna and I have looked into all
Speaker 2: the persons of interest. Here's his take on Sash.
Speaker 16: Well, clearly Rochelle was not involved with bikis or the
Speaker 16: drug scene. Sash doesn't come up on the radar with me.
Speaker 16: He was very cooperative with pleas from the outset, and
Speaker 16: that's sometimes unusual for members of outlaw motorcycle games. And
Speaker 16: I believe that he's no longer a personal interest. And
Speaker 16: the investigating police came to the same conclusion as I have.
Speaker 2: After getting inked, Christy, Mindy and me headed to Seven
Speaker 2: Mile Beach to meet either Davis, the first lead investigator
Speaker 2: on Rochelle's case, and you're going to hear about a
Speaker 2: crucial piece of evidence for the very first time. The tank.
Speaker 2: It's where detectives believe Rochelle's killer had intended to hide
Speaker 2: her body.
Speaker 19: So again, when you're considered the amount of crown Land catchment,
Speaker 19: but right there like so you pass all of that
Speaker 19: just to come here from that white line to where
Speaker 19: that tank was like fifteen meters, So the idea of
Speaker 19: concealment would have been in that tank. That's why the
Speaker 19: top was shoved off it. Everybody going to shol over
Speaker 19: and heads or the short cut down an arrow, so
Speaker 19: we never had to expressway there.
Speaker 2: And can you compare this area and this spot to
Speaker 2: what it was back in two thousand and one?
Speaker 19: Was much the same. It wasn't solid brush. There was
Speaker 19: a lot of hoopeness slug. It is near scattered trees,
Speaker 19: you know, the lantana is all over the place, but
Speaker 19: it was more clearer. So just picture of a concrete tank.
Speaker 19: I don't know how deep it was. It might have
Speaker 19: been maybe a meter meter a half, but above the
Speaker 19: ground was maybe three to four hundred and it had
Speaker 19: a concrete lid on it about a meter and a
Speaker 19: half around maybe a meter. So when you fled it off,
Speaker 19: which they did to at least a quarters away, you
Speaker 19: can clearly see the gate valves, water junctions, everything was
Speaker 19: close to the service wasn't like a two meter drop.
Speaker 19: So as obviously we're looking to get the deceased in there,
Speaker 19: so I think in haste they just dropped it into
Speaker 19: the shallow, put an extpillavan over it, and tortured her.
Speaker 6: So the tank's gone.
Speaker 19: I'd say the water board shifted it.
Speaker 2: It's getting dark and we can't find the tank. Christy
Speaker 2: and IV are certain that were in the right spot.
Speaker 4: I've been down here a number of times.
Speaker 5: I used to go like I'd have to duck in
Speaker 5: under trees and there'd be a big There was a big,
Speaker 5: round concrete lid on top of a pit, and I
Speaker 5: didn't I didn't ever know what was in there until
Speaker 5: I was just told us that it was actually part
Speaker 5: of the water services down to the camping area and
Speaker 5: there were water junctions in there. I didn't know what
Speaker 5: it was, but I remember in the early days there
Speaker 5: was black across it, like from the fire, so I
Speaker 5: knew which side she was on.
Speaker 2: And was it deep enough to put a body in there.
Speaker 5: Well, I couldn't see in it, and I did try
Speaker 5: and push the lid over or open it, but it
Speaker 5: was quite a thick concrete lid that was quite heavy.
Speaker 5: It was quite bit and round, and I didn't know
Speaker 5: what was under it. So if it was empty, if
Speaker 5: it was, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: Well what's your reaction to Iver's.
Speaker 4: Suspicions that someone.
Speaker 2: Wanted to put Rachelle in that tank?
Speaker 5: Well, it makes sense and we've always said that it
Speaker 5: would have to be someone who knew this area well
Speaker 5: to pick that spot, because if you have a look,
Speaker 5: even just on Google Maps, the scrub between Bargo and here,
Speaker 5: I doesn't matter which way you go.
Speaker 4: Why here so far away and it's so close to
Speaker 4: the road.
Speaker 5: So it would have to be someone who knew that
Speaker 5: was there. So it would have to be someone who
Speaker 5: knew the area well.
Speaker 2: Someone who did know the area well. With Stephen Frank Fesis,
Speaker 2: his wife's body was found on a track leading to
Speaker 2: seven Mile Beach.
Speaker 9: The couple had been married for four months when Stephen
Speaker 9: reported Joding missing in August nineteen ninety seven. A month later,
Speaker 9: her body was found partially uncovered at seven Mile Beach,
Speaker 9: south of Wollongong.
Speaker 2: Eighteen year old Jody was murdered four years before Rochelle.
Speaker 2: The young mum was found dressed in her pajamas, just
Speaker 2: a few hundred meters from where Rochelle's body would later
Speaker 2: be discovered.
Speaker 10: My name is Stner's suit I was This was closed
Speaker 10: for us for almost twenty years, sixteen years as a
Speaker 10: pine clothes detected.
Speaker 2: Can you recall the day that you were called out
Speaker 2: to respond to the murder of Jody Feesus in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety seven.
Speaker 18: Oh I camp.
Speaker 10: There was a Friday night and at six o'clock the
Speaker 10: very next morning, I attended the crime site, which is
Speaker 10: seven Mile Beach. It's like the lovers Lay place. It's
Speaker 10: a track down there. You drive down to Belie and
Speaker 10: right at the very end of the track that was three.
Speaker 10: And Jody's body was very but they say three. It
Speaker 10: was almost like the killer didn't want to forget where
Speaker 10: he buried Jody and he wanted her to be discovered.
Speaker 2: What insights can you share with us about that area
Speaker 2: where JODI's body was buried?
Speaker 10: We asked that that was a common burial ground for
Speaker 10: racing greyhounds where if a greyhound overdose or it was
Speaker 10: pretty dirty tray back then, and they used a couple
Speaker 10: of years off and bury the animal. And there was
Speaker 10: quite a few apparently very in that very area.
Speaker 2: In episode one, you met Carmen. She used to run
Speaker 2: this seven Mile Beach holiday park. It's camping and caravan
Speaker 2: site is split across both sides of the Crooked River Road,
Speaker 2: within walking distance from where Rochelle's body was found. Here's
Speaker 2: commen again.
Speaker 18: And then I remember thinking the next day about Jody,
Speaker 18: and then because I thought about Jody and then I
Speaker 18: realized what had happened to Rachelle, I started thinking, oh gosh,
Speaker 18: this is going to be one of those stories like
Speaker 18: Ivan Malt where he took people to this remote location
Speaker 18: that he knew of, that nobody else knew about, and
Speaker 18: no one could see from the road.
Speaker 2: And she wasn't alone in her suspicions. Australia is a
Speaker 2: huge country, twice the size of India and thirty two
Speaker 2: times the size of the UK. So what are the
Speaker 2: chances the bodies of two young murdered women would be
Speaker 2: found just a few hundred meters apart in a remote
Speaker 2: scrub on the east coast? Were they looking for a
Speaker 2: serial killer? Here's Dennis.
Speaker 10: Where the body was? It was set fire to just
Speaker 10: next to the highway. Again to killer want us to
Speaker 10: find that body? And then you know, obviously you've got
Speaker 10: to connect the dots. Was it the same person or
Speaker 10: did Stephen Thesis want us to believe that it was
Speaker 10: the same person? Or was he in cohbes with a
Speaker 10: person that killed Michelle Charles or said insteader in here
Speaker 10: and perhaps they'll throw the coppers off and they'll think
Speaker 10: that there's a serial murder. These are all things that
Speaker 10: you've got to look at. You can't write it.
Speaker 4: Off whether that's the case bes.
Speaker 10: But the guy that deal with now Damien learned he's
Speaker 10: Doe some great thing. I've got a lot of faith
Speaker 10: in Damien and I think possibly this could be the
Speaker 10: break in the case the family needed. So if anyone
Speaker 10: can find it, learn again.
Speaker 2: Stephen Thesis was the prime suspect in his wife's murder,
Speaker 2: but police say there wasn't enough evidence to charge him,
Speaker 2: and now detectives are asking did Stephen feesis also murder Rochelle.
Speaker 2: On the next episode of Deer Rochelle, here it is, This.
Speaker 16: Is where the take was.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's it.
Speaker 6: It is here.
Speaker 2: Do you think the reason maybe the body wasn't placed
Speaker 2: in the tank was not that it couldn't fit, couldn't
Speaker 2: lift it.
Speaker 4: I look at it and go, well, what happened to
Speaker 4: you in that car? Were you killed in that car?
Speaker 6: There any drop it?
Speaker 4: There was something underhanded going on. We just had to
Speaker 4: take that to the to the detectives.
Speaker 6: Where's Where's black and white?
Speaker 2: De Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia.
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Speaker 2: what happens next, go to de Rochelle dot com dot
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Speaker 2: early access to podcast episodes and breaking news in our
Speaker 2: live investigation before anybody else, and you'll also find exclusive videos,
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Speaker 2: dot a U, d E A R R A c
Speaker 2: h E w l E dot com dot a U.
Speaker 2: If you have any tips or confidential information to share
Speaker 2: with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email to Deroschhelle
Speaker 2: Atnews dot com dot a you. Our supervising producer and
Speaker 2: audio editor is Rehys Gunter Rachel Fountain. His executive producer
Speaker 2: and audio director. Our executive editor is Sarah Blake. Our
Speaker 2: senior journalist is Patrick Carlin. Video editors at Jillian McNally,
Speaker 2: Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors are Jeff dr
Speaker 2: Mannin and Christy Miller. Send your camera operators are Daniel
Speaker 2: Andrews and Oscar Vieira, with sound designed by Martin Perolta.
Speaker 2: Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lenny Panerz. Show Burreo
Speaker 2: Faguld Vanessa Graham, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice shall At Carb,
Speaker 2: Tina Coggins and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to the Daily
Speaker 2: Telegraph editor Ben English and dear Rochelle would not be
Speaker 2: possible without the help and unwavering support of Christy and
Speaker 2: Anne Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon and Rochelle's friends. This
Speaker 2: podcast series is hosted and investigated by me Ashley Hanson