1 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:05,840 Speaker 1: She was the first time met us. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,639 Speaker 2: Everything to me, having now spent so much time with Christy, 3 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,080 Speaker 2: this is hard to watch. I'm looking back at the 4 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 2: family's first press conference from the Channel nine archives and 5 00:00:18,880 --> 00:00:22,520 Speaker 2: my heart is breaking. Christie's told me so much about 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: this time in her life. She's pale, bewildered. And it's 7 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:30,240 Speaker 2: just a week after Rochelle's death. It's June two thousand 8 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 2: and one. There are no clear suspects, and detectives are 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:39,000 Speaker 2: desperate for more people to come forward with information. Putting 10 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,600 Speaker 2: the family's grief on display is their strongest play, so 11 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 2: they asked the family to make their first public appeal 12 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:50,519 Speaker 2: and the child's would do anything for answers. At this point, 13 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 2: Graham sits in the middle of a long trestle table 14 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: with his wife and to his left, and then Christy 15 00:00:56,560 --> 00:01:00,400 Speaker 2: beside her. They're all holding hands as they face them media, 16 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 2: their sorrow raw and visible. 17 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 3: Love I very much and we're always will And if 18 00:01:09,080 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 3: anyone's got any knowledge, you know, to help us in 19 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 3: our party, then come forward. 20 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,320 Speaker 2: I'm Ashley Hanson and you're listening to episode two of 21 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: Dear Rochelle, a podcast by True Crime Australia. This is 22 00:01:29,520 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: the untold story of Rochelle Charles, a twenty three year 23 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: old who was brutally murdered. Her killer has never been caught. 24 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:52,960 Speaker 4: The four of us were so close. 25 00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:56,000 Speaker 5: I think this sort of a thing would either rip 26 00:01:56,000 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 5: a family apart or bring them closer together. And it 27 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 5: definitely brought the three of us close together. But we 28 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 5: kind of grieved away from one another. We would talk 29 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,359 Speaker 5: about her and talk about the case all the time, 30 00:02:08,960 --> 00:02:15,320 Speaker 5: but being upset and crying, and you know, we didn't 31 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,680 Speaker 5: do that in front of each other, which is interesting. 32 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 5: You know, if I saw Mom upset, that would make 33 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 5: my grief worse, and same with Dad, and likewise, we 34 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,560 Speaker 5: just talked about her and the case and happy times. 35 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,000 Speaker 5: But yeah, we kind of fell apart away from each other. 36 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 5: It was only eighteen at the time and grew up 37 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:37,480 Speaker 5: very quickly. Yeah, I can imagine. 38 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:40,040 Speaker 2: And did you go into a bit of a fog? 39 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: I know you've described before that you don't remember a 40 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:46,399 Speaker 2: lot of that period after that, which is totally understandable. 41 00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 2: So how did you pick yourself back up? 42 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:51,520 Speaker 4: I don't know. 43 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,920 Speaker 5: I don't remember that. Probably the next six months are 44 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 5: very blurry. I was very angry, I was very sad. 45 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:04,919 Speaker 5: I was very angry, rightly, so, yeah, And I was 46 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,240 Speaker 5: an eighteen year old with attitude anyway, but I was 47 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 5: just angry. 48 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:09,239 Speaker 6: Yeah. 49 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 5: I don't honestly don't remember much. I do remember that day. 50 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 5: This is horrible, this part. I didn't talk to Mum 51 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 5: and Dad. 52 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 4: For a little while. 53 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:20,320 Speaker 5: I just sort of stayed away because I didn't want 54 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:23,760 Speaker 5: to see them feel that. 55 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 4: I just didn't want to say it. 56 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,920 Speaker 5: But later on I was sitting on my bed and 57 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:31,919 Speaker 5: Dad was sitting next to me, and I was born, 58 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 5: and he was cuddling me, and we're talking about it, 59 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 5: and he said there's more. When I said what and 60 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 5: he said when they put her down at to row 61 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 5: while they set her on fire. I don't know how 62 00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,160 Speaker 5: Dad told me that. Then he was crying and I 63 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 5: was screaming, and. 64 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 4: It was horrible. That's very clear in my mind. 65 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:59,160 Speaker 7: Poor dad, Have you ever thought why me? I've lost 66 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 7: so much over there is? I never say why me? 67 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 7: I just think of why all of it? There's some 68 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,560 Speaker 7: awful people out there. She was so good. 69 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 4: I just don't. 70 00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:12,440 Speaker 2: Understand how do you process new grief. 71 00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 8: You never get over it, never, but you just learn 72 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 8: to manage it. And yeah, you have to get on 73 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 8: with life because I've still got another daughter and granddaughter 74 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 8: there so and you can't put yourself out there and 75 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 8: be complaining and carrying on because it just brings everyone 76 00:04:32,440 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 8: else down and it's not good for yourself. You've just 77 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 8: got to cop it and always wonder why and to 78 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 8: eventually hopefully I find closure. I don't see there's closing anything, 79 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 8: but it's just satisfaction that hopefully we can find out 80 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:49,239 Speaker 8: who dio this. I'd just like to see a person 81 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 8: off the streets. No, I'd like to be in a 82 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 8: room with him for five minutes if you don't just 83 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 8: stick him and I. 84 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 4: No rules. 85 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,599 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's understandable. He's taken so much from you. He 86 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: has no idea, oh idea really. Rochelle might have moved 87 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,239 Speaker 2: to Bargo for the peace in the space a small 88 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 2: community offered, but the people of Bargo had encountered evil before. 89 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 5: The nation was shocked by the most brutal of crimes, 90 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:24,719 Speaker 5: the rape and murder of Bargo schoolgirl Ebonie Simpson. 91 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,080 Speaker 9: She was Daddy's little girl, nine year old ebone Simpson. 92 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:33,040 Speaker 10: She was abducted, raped and thrown alive into a dam, 93 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 10: where she drowned. 94 00:05:38,560 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety two, nine years before Rochelle's murder, Ebonie's 95 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: innocent smile was seen in the minds of Australian parents. 96 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:49,280 Speaker 2: I remember when it happened. I was the same age 97 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: as Ebonie, nine years old, and I wasn't allowed to 98 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,280 Speaker 2: walk to school anymore like so many other children. Her 99 00:05:56,320 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: pedophile killer, Andrew Peter Garforth, was senten to life in 100 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: prison and his papers marked never to be released. 101 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 6: My name is Mick Ashwood, a police officer from New 102 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 6: South Wales Police Force between nineteen eighty four and twenty ten, 103 00:06:12,640 --> 00:06:16,000 Speaker 6: twenty six year service. I retired in twenty ten as 104 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 6: a detective inspector. 105 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 2: Mick Ashwood recalls escorting Garforth to the Bargo Dam where 106 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:23,320 Speaker 2: he drowned little Ebony. 107 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,280 Speaker 6: We call miss a Girl's Missing and that was the 108 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:31,160 Speaker 6: one case I've worked on where I would say every 109 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 6: decision from the top down was made, was excellent. When 110 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 6: the young offender, when he admitted to what he'd done, 111 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 6: then wanted to show where the body was, so I 112 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 6: just drove him with the others out to the scene. 113 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 6: We've found a body later in the dam. 114 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 2: Garforth was even part of the volunteer search group pretending 115 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,359 Speaker 2: to look for Ebony before he began to unravel. Cases 116 00:06:52,480 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: like that, they stick with you and Mick would never forget. 117 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,640 Speaker 2: When Ebeney's family met Rachelle's. 118 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 6: The irony is grand child's came to speak to one 119 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,839 Speaker 6: of the detective's training courses and Ebide Simpson's mum was 120 00:07:06,839 --> 00:07:12,000 Speaker 6: there and just you know, I broke down because it's 121 00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 6: the first some way I'd put my head into the 122 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 6: world of the victim, you know, And so because you know, 123 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 6: her pink lunchbox was floating on the water when we 124 00:07:21,160 --> 00:07:23,640 Speaker 6: got there and the lights were turned on. It was 125 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 6: only in the two thousands, ten years later that it 126 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:26,720 Speaker 6: got to me. 127 00:07:27,040 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 2: Two very horrendous crimes connected to Bargo. How does that 128 00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:32,600 Speaker 2: change your community? 129 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 6: Well, it is a stigma, and people say the old 130 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:39,360 Speaker 6: usual thing, blame the media. Don't want the media in here, 131 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 6: and that's I understand that, But it's the evolution of 132 00:07:44,520 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 6: a rural area that into urbanization. Garforth was a guy 133 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 6: who got out of jail, came over and start up 134 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 6: a new life here and was just looking for another victim. 135 00:07:58,160 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 6: Could have been any area. 136 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 2: And at what point did you join the murder investigation 137 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:04,880 Speaker 2: of Rochelle Child's I. 138 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 6: Think it was about one year after the death occurred. 139 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:11,760 Speaker 6: I was asked by my boss to undertake an intelligence 140 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 6: review and assist the local police who are leading the investigation. 141 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,640 Speaker 2: And how would you describe the investigation when you joined it. 142 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 6: The initial meetings didn't occur in the normal way at 143 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 6: a police station. They occurred at coffee shops, which was 144 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,640 Speaker 6: a bit unusual. They had five or six persons of interest, 145 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 6: and how the position they were in there was sort 146 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:37,920 Speaker 6: of stuck. My initial concern was after a year homicide 147 00:08:37,960 --> 00:08:41,800 Speaker 6: investigation generally does not have five or six persons of interest, 148 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 6: or they were referred to at the time as suspects. 149 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 6: It's quite unusual. It's usually one two usually that's the case. 150 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 6: And that highlighted to me there was an issue of 151 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 6: fundamental issue with the investigation. 152 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:02,400 Speaker 2: Rochelle's murder was always comples from a police perspective. They 153 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 2: quickly came to the realization they were hunting an extremely 154 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:12,959 Speaker 2: dangerous sex offender. But this wasn't a random attack. Detectives 155 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,280 Speaker 2: believe Rochelle knew her killer and he was hell bent 156 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:21,599 Speaker 2: on covering his tracks. Rochelle's body was badly burned, destroying 157 00:09:21,679 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 2: forensic evidence. There was a lot of finger pointing and 158 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:27,840 Speaker 2: someone was spreading rumors. 159 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 9: Graham Child's wife Ann and daughter Christie last saw a 160 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:35,680 Speaker 9: twenty three year old Rochelle last Wednesday night. 161 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:38,400 Speaker 2: The following evening she was murdered. 162 00:09:38,840 --> 00:09:40,440 Speaker 4: Don't know something like that could happen here. 163 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,280 Speaker 2: Rachelle's parents say their daughter's body cannot truly be put 164 00:09:44,320 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 2: to rest until it's known who is responsible for her death. 165 00:09:51,760 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 11: We heard that she had been tied to a tree 166 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,240 Speaker 11: and set on fire and possibly tortured. That was some 167 00:09:57,360 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 11: very early reports. Police were not, you know, sharing a 168 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 11: lot of information during investigations, and that's quite common. They 169 00:10:03,640 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 11: want to keep a few things secret. So these torture allegations, 170 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,240 Speaker 11: the tying up, that took us a long time to 171 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 11: even have that dispelled, that she'd been tied to a tree. 172 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 11: My name is Mark murray On, the crime editor of 173 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 11: the Sydney Daily Telegraph. You've got a small country town. 174 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 11: They're very very protective those communities. That also made it 175 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 11: hard to get accurate information. It also means there's a 176 00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,080 Speaker 11: lot of like pub talk rumor, so getting to the 177 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:34,320 Speaker 11: truth of what happened or what was being investigated. Was 178 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 11: really very hard, especially back then, because in a town 179 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 11: like that, you can't tell me that somebody doesn't know 180 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,359 Speaker 11: what's going on. That killers do share. 181 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: But do they always share the truth. Rachelle was popular, 182 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,600 Speaker 2: She had no known enemies. She was single, gorgeous, friendly, 183 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,319 Speaker 2: and maybe a little naive. She was only twenty three. 184 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:03,080 Speaker 2: He from her best friend Lisa and work mate Fiona 185 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,719 Speaker 2: about their final conversations with Rachelle. 186 00:11:06,440 --> 00:11:09,160 Speaker 12: I gave her a serving. She had told me at 187 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,239 Speaker 12: that point that she was going to a rebels clubhouse, 188 00:11:13,880 --> 00:11:16,440 Speaker 12: and I just ripped into her and I said, that 189 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 12: is idiotic, stupid, don't you dare? 190 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: Do you know how dangerous that could be? 191 00:11:21,160 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 12: You know, just ripped into her, and in my head 192 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 12: she was going to a particular clubhouse, but probably because 193 00:11:26,480 --> 00:11:27,560 Speaker 12: that's the only one I knew of. 194 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,840 Speaker 13: The only time she'd ever mentioned rebels to me was 195 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:34,960 Speaker 13: that she'd been invited to a party and would I 196 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 13: ever go? And I said, no way, and that was 197 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 13: the end of the conversation. 198 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 12: She kind of fought back a little bit, and I 199 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 12: think we hung up on each other in fury, but 200 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 12: she ended up texting me back afterwards. Saying, you know, 201 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 12: you're a good mate, Lisa, and I get where you're 202 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:52,320 Speaker 12: coming from. But don't worry. You know what, I trust 203 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:56,079 Speaker 12: this Sash person, which was the person that was going 204 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,920 Speaker 12: to take her there, and I'll be fine. So I 205 00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 12: think that that put me at peace a little bit. 206 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 12: But also I was still twenty three and fiery, and 207 00:12:08,720 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 12: so I turned my phone off. I'll never stop regretting 208 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 12: turning my phone off because she died that night and 209 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:18,680 Speaker 12: she could have been calling. 210 00:12:23,559 --> 00:12:29,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, there's only one person or people responsible for Rochelle's 211 00:12:29,640 --> 00:12:32,640 Speaker 2: death and it's not her loved ones. 212 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 4: Logic knows that, ah bo. 213 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, the Sash Lise is referring to is Sash milchah 214 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: Reck Senior. He's one of the first persons of interest 215 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:56,439 Speaker 2: police explored. Remember nine pois were identified and scrutinized. At 216 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:58,640 Speaker 2: the time, he was a senior member of the Bargo 217 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:02,600 Speaker 2: chapter of the Rebel Outlaw motorcycle Gang and he also 218 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 2: owned a car yard in Bargo. You can imagine after 219 00:13:06,160 --> 00:13:09,679 Speaker 2: Rochelle's murder it was a pretty unnerving time for locals. 220 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 2: Everyone was talking about it and they wanted to know 221 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:16,199 Speaker 2: who did it. A killer was on the. 222 00:13:16,160 --> 00:13:20,479 Speaker 4: Loose, cropper in a Larma General Checks. 223 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: Sash and other members of the biking group were hauled 224 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: in for questioning. Here's the Daily Telegraph crime editor Mark Mourray. Again, 225 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:30,520 Speaker 2: there were. 226 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 11: Rumors that the potentially had some involvement with bikes. You know, 227 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 11: there was suggestions that the Bargo had a biking influence. 228 00:13:40,160 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 11: And we do know country towns bikes, especially some of 229 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 11: the lower members, they make their money selling dope, and 230 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:49,840 Speaker 11: particularly in those smaller towns like that. So there were 231 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 11: those rumors that she could have been involved with the 232 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:56,120 Speaker 11: biking member or just knew some of them, which would 233 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,000 Speaker 11: be hard not to. I suppose if you're a young person, 234 00:13:58,080 --> 00:13:59,960 Speaker 11: they'd probably only be a pub or two in town, 235 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 11: so and a rumor would fly she might have had 236 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:03,960 Speaker 11: a beer with one. 237 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 2: We did hear that police were taking the rumors seriously. 238 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:11,640 Speaker 2: They were investigating whether Rochelle was involved with the Rebels 239 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,880 Speaker 2: bikei club and was she selling drugs. 240 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 13: I'd never ever seen her with drugs. If she was 241 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 13: selling drugs, she'd have had money. If she was selling drugs, 242 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 13: she'd have probably been doing. 243 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,720 Speaker 4: Drugs like that. 244 00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:28,800 Speaker 13: It just makes no sense whatsoever, and it makes me angry. 245 00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 4: But it was sort of like a case of Chinese whispers. 246 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,240 Speaker 5: And you know, the Rebels are known for not being 247 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 5: nice people and for being into drugs and crime and 248 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 5: things like that, so they're an easy target to point 249 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:43,680 Speaker 5: the finger out. And it's an interesting story. 250 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 4: You know. 251 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,960 Speaker 5: I heard someone say that she was dealing drugs for 252 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,960 Speaker 5: the Rebels and she ripped them off. I can tell 253 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 5: you for free. She was lucky to put more than 254 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:56,840 Speaker 5: five dollars at a time in her tank at the 255 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 5: petrol station. She was broke, she was terrible money. She 256 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 5: didn't have any money. 257 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 2: Let's explore those two points. Was Rochelle involved with bikeis 258 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 2: and could she have been dealing drugs? First, Rochelle's friends 259 00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: say she'd been invited to a party at the Rebels clubhouse, 260 00:15:17,160 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: but she'd never mentioned anything like that before, so they 261 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: were shocked. And then after she was killed, a rumor 262 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 2: has started the bikes were responsible because she owed them 263 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:32,320 Speaker 2: money for drugs. Police weren't ruling anything out, but let's 264 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 2: look at the evidence. The autopsy results found no traces 265 00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: of drugs or alcohol in Rochelle's system, No drugs were 266 00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:44,200 Speaker 2: found in her home, car or any of her belongings, 267 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:48,400 Speaker 2: and When police went through her phone records, they found 268 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 2: nothing out of the ordinary. Rochelle was known to ask 269 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,760 Speaker 2: her family for help if she was short on cash, 270 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 2: so turning to drug dealing before going to them would 271 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: be very out of character. And if Rochelle was involved 272 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:07,560 Speaker 2: with bi kids and was in that much trouble, wouldn't 273 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 2: her friends and family have noticed some kind of change 274 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: in her behavior. There are just so many things about 275 00:16:14,080 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 2: this case that don't add up. Someone who's been helping 276 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 2: Christy piece it all together over the years is her 277 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:28,480 Speaker 2: best friend, Mindy Wicks. Minnie's a self confessed sluice with 278 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: a sharp mind. She's consumed by Christie's quest to find justice. 279 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:35,680 Speaker 4: We do awkward? 280 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:42,840 Speaker 5: Well, see is that part of what you love about Mint? 281 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 4: She snorts. 282 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 14: It's one of the first things I noticed about her. 283 00:16:46,240 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 4: But that's on did you when you laugh? 284 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:52,040 Speaker 6: Ad? 285 00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 4: How would I describe Mindy as the best friend? 286 00:16:55,120 --> 00:17:03,440 Speaker 14: She's incredibly loyal, hilarious, She's hilarious, she's feeding me lies, Chris. 287 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:10,600 Speaker 14: She's incredibly loyal, incredibly kind, incredibly giving, pretty fierce backs 288 00:17:10,640 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 14: the younger dogs. She reminds me of Rochelle in a 289 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,840 Speaker 14: lot of ways. 290 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:23,400 Speaker 15: How would I describe my friendship with Christie easy natural. 291 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 4: It's just Christie. 292 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: She's the best true story. 293 00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,600 Speaker 15: Yeah, no, bullshit. 294 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 4: Just she just loves you. That's true. I do. 295 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 2: I it makes me angry. 296 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:43,359 Speaker 4: I'll just get angry. 297 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 2: It's not right. 298 00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 15: It's twenty three years. Shouldn't have been twenty three days, 299 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 15: shouldn't have happened. 300 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:52,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, so. 301 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:58,199 Speaker 15: I don't know what it would be like to be 302 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:03,879 Speaker 15: in that position, to ship position. I mean, it just 303 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:08,760 Speaker 15: makes me angry. They deserve it, they deserve to know. 304 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:12,680 Speaker 15: None of it should have happened in the first place. 305 00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 6: But to be. 306 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,400 Speaker 2: Waiting not knowing is. 307 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:20,160 Speaker 4: Shit. 308 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 15: I don't know how she does it like it kills me. 309 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 4: And yeah, I don't know. 310 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:35,479 Speaker 15: She is probably one of, if not the strongest person 311 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:35,800 Speaker 15: I know. 312 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 4: She's just. 313 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 15: I don't think she believes it, but she's pretty fierce herself. 314 00:18:43,560 --> 00:19:09,440 Speaker 1: I think. 315 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 16: Already ready to blame always. 316 00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:08,159 Speaker 12: I did. 317 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 2: Chadwick, Christie and Mindy A going to have the words 318 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:17,480 Speaker 2: team shell tattooed on their legs. It's a tribute to 319 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 2: Rachelle and also a symbol of their commitment to finding 320 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:21,520 Speaker 2: the truth. 321 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,359 Speaker 17: We're going to do exactly why Rochelle made it, How 322 00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:25,679 Speaker 17: to make. 323 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 18: That slight. 324 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:29,960 Speaker 17: I'd like to do it a little bit bigger than 325 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,240 Speaker 17: your okay, because you know something you want to hide. 326 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 17: It's something that you want people to see. Is this 327 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 17: something that Rachelle wrote? 328 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 2: No, they've created the design by using Rochelle's handwriting. 329 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:44,119 Speaker 16: Did you put that together? 330 00:19:44,240 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 17: And have just put that together? 331 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 5: She got in trouble with the police, had a driving 332 00:19:49,119 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 5: incident and she had written all over the statement from 333 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,520 Speaker 5: the cloth with all these arguments down the side about 334 00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,560 Speaker 5: how wrong he was the chatty tattooist. 335 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:04,080 Speaker 2: Is Dash milcharek? He actually knew Rochelle. You've heard him 336 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 2: mentioned earlier in relation to a party at the Rebels clubhouse? 337 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 4: Is that little bits too bad? 338 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 2: Though? 339 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 3: Didn't have. 340 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,639 Speaker 1: To that is awesome? 341 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:23,200 Speaker 17: Coo are. 342 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 15: Sorry? 343 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:35,959 Speaker 4: Mum got another one. 344 00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,159 Speaker 2: Christie is keen to speak to anyone connected to her 345 00:20:39,240 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 2: sister's case. Do fill in the blanks. 346 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:43,760 Speaker 4: Did you fire Carl Fair? 347 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 15: Or did she. 348 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 4: Oh deah oh there. 349 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 2: In two thousand and one, Sash lived in Bargo and 350 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 2: he ran a business there called Sash Has Used Cars. 351 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:06,119 Speaker 2: His slogan was don't buy trash, see Sash and save cash. 352 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 2: He was a well known character in town, either through 353 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 2: his car yard or through his membership with the Rebels 354 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 2: motorcycle club. As you just heard, Sasha had brought a 355 00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 2: car from Rochelle's boyfriend, and it was common practice to 356 00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:23,720 Speaker 2: wheel and deal cars and parts between other businesses, which 357 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 2: included Camden Holden where Rochelle and Fiona worked. 358 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,240 Speaker 17: So, guys, I meet with smaller caryards, we go and 359 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,400 Speaker 17: buy them from the big kayaks, same as where Rashaul worked. 360 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,919 Speaker 13: If he had needed anything brought down. She lived there, 361 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,760 Speaker 13: so it made sense that she would drop them in 362 00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 13: to the caryard. I assume if he needed stuff for 363 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,920 Speaker 13: his caryard, so it wasn't that usual for him to 364 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 13: call and. 365 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 4: Ask for her. 366 00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 13: In regards to parts, I would assume. 367 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:57,280 Speaker 17: I only remember her Camden holder trying to order a 368 00:21:57,480 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 17: car for my wife. That's when I made the phone 369 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:00,920 Speaker 17: call they to see the that car come in. She 370 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:02,920 Speaker 17: thought was going to come in on a Tuesday or something, 371 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,399 Speaker 17: and was it a Thursday? It was a Thursday on 372 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:08,920 Speaker 17: it and then I said, she goes, We'm me Thursday 373 00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,399 Speaker 17: afternoon should be in by then, you know, But it 374 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 17: wasn't a been. That was the end of it. Yeah, 375 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:16,760 Speaker 17: and the young girl said that she left about five 376 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,440 Speaker 17: ten minutes ago. Whoever was on the counter, Yeah, and 377 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 17: that was it. 378 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 2: That call Sash made to Candid Holden asking for Rochelle 379 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,880 Speaker 2: just minutes after she was seen for the last time, 380 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 2: were to put him on the police radar very early. 381 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,399 Speaker 2: And don't forget the Rebels biker group are considered by 382 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 2: Australian authorities to be a criminal gang known for drug 383 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 2: trafficking and other serious crimes. Not that we're suggesting Sash 384 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,719 Speaker 2: had any involvement in criminal activity. Sash says he met 385 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:49,040 Speaker 2: Rochelle through her boyfriend at the time, Shane Loakes. It 386 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 2: was hard. 387 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:51,280 Speaker 17: It was hard, and everywhere you walked and then you're 388 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:54,159 Speaker 17: started hearing people saying this about you and saying that 389 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 17: Abelian and saying you've done this and you've done that. 390 00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,440 Speaker 17: You think, how do you get this shit? How does 391 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:04,600 Speaker 17: this come? You know, like fucking blame on me? What 392 00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:06,879 Speaker 17: because I'm in a bike club fun. We're in the 393 00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 17: bikes and chase you know, chasing fun and whatever and 394 00:23:11,119 --> 00:23:15,240 Speaker 17: drinking beer and you know it's and chasing that dream, 395 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,120 Speaker 17: going for arrive your mates and whatever. You know, Chilling people, 396 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,800 Speaker 17: you know, especially a woman like come on and over money. Please, 397 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 17: No amount of money is gonna worth the while going 398 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,240 Speaker 17: in jail for you know what I mean, Like, come on, And. 399 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 4: I didn't need to have definitely didn't have any money. 400 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 17: And you know, I never ever, ever, ever, I never 401 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,840 Speaker 17: been in a house, never even knew where she lived. 402 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:44,080 Speaker 17: I knew that Shane and her lived up Bargo, you know, 403 00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 17: because I've filled out the paperwork obviously, and I knew 404 00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,159 Speaker 17: there were locals because they would have said I live 405 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:53,440 Speaker 17: up the road. But yeah, that's that's about im. I 406 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,080 Speaker 17: don't know how many times I met shame with her, 407 00:23:55,119 --> 00:23:57,159 Speaker 17: but it wasn't that many times, you know what I mean. 408 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,600 Speaker 17: It was many fank walls, the carcomers car coming. It 409 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,119 Speaker 17: was like early early early stages of the two. But 410 00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,320 Speaker 17: she never ever, ever ever ever went never never never 411 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 17: never was there ever. I even said the cops, it's footage. 412 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:13,160 Speaker 17: Take what you want, do you want who they ain't? 413 00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 17: And you've got to try and help out because the 414 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 17: more you can help, the quicker This might have been resolved. 415 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,320 Speaker 17: But obviously it went nowhere. You know, they sort of 416 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,760 Speaker 17: knew where they were going. The cops knew where they 417 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 17: were going. But I'm thinking that they had to eliminate 418 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 17: all the other outside interference, which is probably what choked 419 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 17: it all. 420 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know that probably better. 421 00:24:33,119 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 17: You mean you know the whole story better than I do. 422 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:37,280 Speaker 17: I mean you only read in the papers, and then 423 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 17: you can't really take that as gospel. I wish all 424 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,879 Speaker 17: the best with him. I hope this has made you happy. 425 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:45,200 Speaker 4: Yep, I love it. 426 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,840 Speaker 17: Don't get your mom. Don't get your mom bringing me 427 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:51,680 Speaker 17: shouting at you. Ken and my daughter at tattoo. She's 428 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:53,119 Speaker 17: a respectable school teacher. 429 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:56,359 Speaker 4: I'm a school teacher. 430 00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 2: Let's break this down. In a chat with Christy, Sash 431 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,680 Speaker 2: says he has nothing to hide. He's happy to answer 432 00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,840 Speaker 2: her questions. I'm there and he's okay being recorded, but 433 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 2: he doesn't agree to do an interview with me. He 434 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,840 Speaker 2: says that's because he doesn't trust the media, and he 435 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 2: has had his fair share of news coverage over the years. 436 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: I'm watching him closely and he doesn't appear nervous in 437 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:29,840 Speaker 2: any way. Sasha's emphatic that Rochelle never went to his clubhouse, 438 00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:33,399 Speaker 2: nor did he invite her to a party there, but 439 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 2: Lisa and Fiona both recall conversations with Rochelle about being 440 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:42,680 Speaker 2: invited to a rebels party. Police never found any proof 441 00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,160 Speaker 2: there was a gathering at the clubhouse on the Thursday 442 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 2: night Rochelle disappeared. 443 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,919 Speaker 4: She got along really well with Sash. She quite liked him. 444 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,119 Speaker 2: And Sash was initially a person of interest though, wasn't he? 445 00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 4: Yeah? 446 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 5: And I think because of the rumors about the Red 447 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 5: Bulls by gang and Rachelle wanting to go to a 448 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,320 Speaker 5: rebels party, which I've never heard her say in life. 449 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 5: Because of those rumors, and because of the fact that 450 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 5: there's phone calls between them and things like that, because 451 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 5: of their line of work, I think that's how he 452 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,399 Speaker 5: kind of became a person of interest. 453 00:26:21,520 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 4: Well, Sash gave evidence at the inquest, but he answered 454 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:26,920 Speaker 4: every question. You know, he said that he wanted to help. 455 00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 4: Nothing worth mentioning came out. 456 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,600 Speaker 5: He just pretty much repeated what his statements were and 457 00:26:31,840 --> 00:26:33,600 Speaker 5: there wasn't really anything suspicious. 458 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 2: And do you think that someone has used the biki's 459 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:40,639 Speaker 2: rumor to divert police? 460 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 4: Oh, definitely. 461 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,639 Speaker 5: It's a convenience escapegoat because of the stigma attached to 462 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 5: bikis and bikey gangs, Sash and the rebels out it. 463 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,800 Speaker 4: You know Bargo, they've got a reputation. 464 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 5: Even talking to one of my closest friends recently, they 465 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:01,080 Speaker 5: believed that the rebels were responsible because of that rumor 466 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,880 Speaker 5: that there's no evidence to back that up, in my opinion, fabricated. 467 00:27:06,320 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 5: I'd be happily proven wrong if someone can tell me 468 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:09,560 Speaker 5: exactly what happened. 469 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,119 Speaker 2: In the end, it was Sasha's signature on a credit 470 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:17,360 Speaker 2: card receipt from a Chinese restaurant that confirmed his alibi. 471 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 17: And they still hounded and hounded and hounded. I'm thinking, 472 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:24,560 Speaker 17: Jesus Christ, you know, come on, you're wasting time. I 473 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,080 Speaker 17: said to him, you're wasting time. Fucking he get on 474 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 17: with it. Yeah, move, move, fucking wasting time, you know. 475 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,840 Speaker 17: Even And I remember I had cash on me. I 476 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 17: sold of the cars and I didn't want to break 477 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 17: and lucky I paid for it by credit card because 478 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 17: I had to sign for him those days and get 479 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,960 Speaker 17: credit card. You signed it on the white slip, and 480 00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,680 Speaker 17: I had I had money in my pocket. It was 481 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 17: even number. I didn't want to break it. I'm all 482 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,560 Speaker 17: about even numbers. I do want to break it. 483 00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,640 Speaker 4: That when you're turning up the volume in the car, yeah. 484 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:55,159 Speaker 17: Saying when I tell you, I've got to do it 485 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,600 Speaker 17: all perfect, and I'm very ac dc. 486 00:27:57,840 --> 00:28:06,639 Speaker 2: You know, Damien Luna and I have looked into all 487 00:28:06,680 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 2: the persons of interest. Here's his take on Sash. 488 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:13,480 Speaker 16: Well, clearly Rochelle was not involved with bikis or the 489 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 16: drug scene. Sash doesn't come up on the radar with me. 490 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,560 Speaker 16: He was very cooperative with pleas from the outset, and 491 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 16: that's sometimes unusual for members of outlaw motorcycle games. And 492 00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 16: I believe that he's no longer a personal interest. And 493 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,600 Speaker 16: the investigating police came to the same conclusion as I have. 494 00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,960 Speaker 2: After getting inked, Christy, Mindy and me headed to Seven 495 00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 2: Mile Beach to meet either Davis, the first lead investigator 496 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,320 Speaker 2: on Rochelle's case, and you're going to hear about a 497 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 2: crucial piece of evidence for the very first time. The tank. 498 00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 2: It's where detectives believe Rochelle's killer had intended to hide 499 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:52,680 Speaker 2: her body. 500 00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 19: So again, when you're considered the amount of crown Land catchment, 501 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 19: but right there like so you pass all of that 502 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,600 Speaker 19: just to come here from that white line to where 503 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 19: that tank was like fifteen meters, So the idea of 504 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 19: concealment would have been in that tank. That's why the 505 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,800 Speaker 19: top was shoved off it. Everybody going to shol over 506 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,680 Speaker 19: and heads or the short cut down an arrow, so 507 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 19: we never had to expressway there. 508 00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,360 Speaker 2: And can you compare this area and this spot to 509 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 2: what it was back in two thousand and one? 510 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,360 Speaker 19: Was much the same. It wasn't solid brush. There was 511 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 19: a lot of hoopeness slug. It is near scattered trees, 512 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,040 Speaker 19: you know, the lantana is all over the place, but 513 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:38,080 Speaker 19: it was more clearer. So just picture of a concrete tank. 514 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 19: I don't know how deep it was. It might have 515 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 19: been maybe a meter meter a half, but above the 516 00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,880 Speaker 19: ground was maybe three to four hundred and it had 517 00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 19: a concrete lid on it about a meter and a 518 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 19: half around maybe a meter. So when you fled it off, 519 00:29:52,440 --> 00:29:55,600 Speaker 19: which they did to at least a quarters away, you 520 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,640 Speaker 19: can clearly see the gate valves, water junctions, everything was 521 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:01,840 Speaker 19: close to the service wasn't like a two meter drop. 522 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,719 Speaker 19: So as obviously we're looking to get the deceased in there, 523 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 19: so I think in haste they just dropped it into 524 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 19: the shallow, put an extpillavan over it, and tortured her. 525 00:30:11,640 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 6: So the tank's gone. 526 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 19: I'd say the water board shifted it. 527 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,959 Speaker 2: It's getting dark and we can't find the tank. Christy 528 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 2: and IV are certain that were in the right spot. 529 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:24,920 Speaker 4: I've been down here a number of times. 530 00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 5: I used to go like I'd have to duck in 531 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,640 Speaker 5: under trees and there'd be a big There was a big, 532 00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:35,040 Speaker 5: round concrete lid on top of a pit, and I 533 00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 5: didn't I didn't ever know what was in there until 534 00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:40,400 Speaker 5: I was just told us that it was actually part 535 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:43,680 Speaker 5: of the water services down to the camping area and 536 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 5: there were water junctions in there. I didn't know what 537 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,600 Speaker 5: it was, but I remember in the early days there 538 00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 5: was black across it, like from the fire, so I 539 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 5: knew which side she was on. 540 00:30:56,280 --> 00:30:58,640 Speaker 2: And was it deep enough to put a body in there. 541 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,440 Speaker 5: Well, I couldn't see in it, and I did try 542 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,680 Speaker 5: and push the lid over or open it, but it 543 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,280 Speaker 5: was quite a thick concrete lid that was quite heavy. 544 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,320 Speaker 5: It was quite bit and round, and I didn't know 545 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,840 Speaker 5: what was under it. So if it was empty, if 546 00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 5: it was, yeah, for sure. 547 00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:19,200 Speaker 2: Well what's your reaction to Iver's. 548 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,360 Speaker 4: Suspicions that someone. 549 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,320 Speaker 2: Wanted to put Rachelle in that tank? 550 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,000 Speaker 5: Well, it makes sense and we've always said that it 551 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 5: would have to be someone who knew this area well 552 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 5: to pick that spot, because if you have a look, 553 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 5: even just on Google Maps, the scrub between Bargo and here, 554 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 5: I doesn't matter which way you go. 555 00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 4: Why here so far away and it's so close to 556 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 4: the road. 557 00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,560 Speaker 5: So it would have to be someone who knew that 558 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:48,760 Speaker 5: was there. So it would have to be someone who 559 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,080 Speaker 5: knew the area well. 560 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,240 Speaker 2: Someone who did know the area well. With Stephen Frank Fesis, 561 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,440 Speaker 2: his wife's body was found on a track leading to 562 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 2: seven Mile Beach. 563 00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 9: The couple had been married for four months when Stephen 564 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 9: reported Joding missing in August nineteen ninety seven. A month later, 565 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,400 Speaker 9: her body was found partially uncovered at seven Mile Beach, 566 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 9: south of Wollongong. 567 00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 2: Eighteen year old Jody was murdered four years before Rochelle. 568 00:32:22,160 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 2: The young mum was found dressed in her pajamas, just 569 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: a few hundred meters from where Rochelle's body would later 570 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:29,360 Speaker 2: be discovered. 571 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 10: My name is Stner's suit I was This was closed 572 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 10: for us for almost twenty years, sixteen years as a 573 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 10: pine clothes detected. 574 00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 2: Can you recall the day that you were called out 575 00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:44,760 Speaker 2: to respond to the murder of Jody Feesus in nineteen 576 00:32:44,880 --> 00:32:45,800 Speaker 2: ninety seven. 577 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 18: Oh I camp. 578 00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 10: There was a Friday night and at six o'clock the 579 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,240 Speaker 10: very next morning, I attended the crime site, which is 580 00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 10: seven Mile Beach. It's like the lovers Lay place. It's 581 00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,040 Speaker 10: a track down there. You drive down to Belie and 582 00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,440 Speaker 10: right at the very end of the track that was three. 583 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:10,800 Speaker 10: And Jody's body was very but they say three. It 584 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 10: was almost like the killer didn't want to forget where 585 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,160 Speaker 10: he buried Jody and he wanted her to be discovered. 586 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,520 Speaker 2: What insights can you share with us about that area 587 00:33:21,680 --> 00:33:23,440 Speaker 2: where JODI's body was buried? 588 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 10: We asked that that was a common burial ground for 589 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 10: racing greyhounds where if a greyhound overdose or it was 590 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,920 Speaker 10: pretty dirty tray back then, and they used a couple 591 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 10: of years off and bury the animal. And there was 592 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 10: quite a few apparently very in that very area. 593 00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:49,880 Speaker 2: In episode one, you met Carmen. She used to run 594 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 2: this seven Mile Beach holiday park. It's camping and caravan 595 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 2: site is split across both sides of the Crooked River Road, 596 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,200 Speaker 2: within walking distance from where Rochelle's body was found. Here's 597 00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 2: commen again. 598 00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 18: And then I remember thinking the next day about Jody, 599 00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,640 Speaker 18: and then because I thought about Jody and then I 600 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:14,640 Speaker 18: realized what had happened to Rachelle, I started thinking, oh gosh, 601 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:16,759 Speaker 18: this is going to be one of those stories like 602 00:34:17,640 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 18: Ivan Malt where he took people to this remote location 603 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 18: that he knew of, that nobody else knew about, and 604 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,240 Speaker 18: no one could see from the road. 605 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:30,160 Speaker 2: And she wasn't alone in her suspicions. Australia is a 606 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,839 Speaker 2: huge country, twice the size of India and thirty two 607 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,759 Speaker 2: times the size of the UK. So what are the 608 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,400 Speaker 2: chances the bodies of two young murdered women would be 609 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,720 Speaker 2: found just a few hundred meters apart in a remote 610 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,200 Speaker 2: scrub on the east coast? Were they looking for a 611 00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:49,760 Speaker 2: serial killer? Here's Dennis. 612 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:57,440 Speaker 10: Where the body was? It was set fire to just 613 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 10: next to the highway. Again to killer want us to 614 00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,000 Speaker 10: find that body? And then you know, obviously you've got 615 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,279 Speaker 10: to connect the dots. Was it the same person or 616 00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:12,200 Speaker 10: did Stephen Thesis want us to believe that it was 617 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 10: the same person? Or was he in cohbes with a 618 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,279 Speaker 10: person that killed Michelle Charles or said insteader in here 619 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:21,879 Speaker 10: and perhaps they'll throw the coppers off and they'll think 620 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:24,800 Speaker 10: that there's a serial murder. These are all things that 621 00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 10: you've got to look at. You can't write it. 622 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,640 Speaker 4: Off whether that's the case bes. 623 00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:33,160 Speaker 10: But the guy that deal with now Damien learned he's 624 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:35,440 Speaker 10: Doe some great thing. I've got a lot of faith 625 00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,360 Speaker 10: in Damien and I think possibly this could be the 626 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 10: break in the case the family needed. So if anyone 627 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 10: can find it, learn again. 628 00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,560 Speaker 2: Stephen Thesis was the prime suspect in his wife's murder, 629 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:55,879 Speaker 2: but police say there wasn't enough evidence to charge him, 630 00:35:56,480 --> 00:36:01,160 Speaker 2: and now detectives are asking did Stephen feesis also murder Rochelle. 631 00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:15,239 Speaker 2: On the next episode of Deer Rochelle, here it is, This. 632 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:16,040 Speaker 16: Is where the take was. 633 00:36:16,160 --> 00:36:18,080 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, that's it. 634 00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:18,880 Speaker 6: It is here. 635 00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:21,520 Speaker 2: Do you think the reason maybe the body wasn't placed 636 00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 2: in the tank was not that it couldn't fit, couldn't 637 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 2: lift it. 638 00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 4: I look at it and go, well, what happened to 639 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,640 Speaker 4: you in that car? Were you killed in that car? 640 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:29,960 Speaker 6: There any drop it? 641 00:36:30,040 --> 00:36:32,960 Speaker 4: There was something underhanded going on. We just had to 642 00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:34,920 Speaker 4: take that to the to the detectives. 643 00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:36,160 Speaker 6: Where's Where's black and white? 644 00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,440 Speaker 2: De Rochelle is a multi media production from True Crime Australia. 645 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,399 Speaker 2: If you want to be the first to find out 646 00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,640 Speaker 2: what happens next, go to de Rochelle dot com dot 647 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 2: ay you. That's where News Corp Australia subscribe its get 648 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 2: early access to podcast episodes and breaking news in our 649 00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 2: live investigation before anybody else, and you'll also find exclusive videos, 650 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:13,080 Speaker 2: interactive evidence, feature articles and more. That's deroshell dot com 651 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:16,040 Speaker 2: dot a U, d E A R R A c 652 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:18,880 Speaker 2: h E w l E dot com dot a U. 653 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 2: If you have any tips or confidential information to share 654 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,399 Speaker 2: with me, Ashley Hanson, please send an email to Deroschhelle 655 00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 2: Atnews dot com dot a you. Our supervising producer and 656 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 2: audio editor is Rehys Gunter Rachel Fountain. His executive producer 657 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 2: and audio director. Our executive editor is Sarah Blake. Our 658 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,240 Speaker 2: senior journalist is Patrick Carlin. Video editors at Jillian McNally, 659 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,560 Speaker 2: Owen Yang and Stephen Woods. Picture editors are Jeff dr 660 00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:48,640 Speaker 2: Mannin and Christy Miller. Send your camera operators are Daniel 661 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 2: Andrews and Oscar Vieira, with sound designed by Martin Perolta. 662 00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,720 Speaker 2: Thanks also to Greg Thompson and Lenny Panerz. Show Burreo 663 00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:00,520 Speaker 2: Faguld Vanessa Graham, Hailey Goddard, Stephen Grice shall At Carb, 664 00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,479 Speaker 2: Tina Coggins and Harry Hughes. Special thanks to the Daily 665 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:07,840 Speaker 2: Telegraph editor Ben English and dear Rochelle would not be 666 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 2: possible without the help and unwavering support of Christy and 667 00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 2: Anne Childs, Mindy Wicks, Damien Loon and Rochelle's friends. This 668 00:38:16,800 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 2: podcast series is hosted and investigated by me Ashley Hanson