WEBVTT - Dear Rachelle: Ash Hansen on the missing nine hours 0:00:01.440 --> 0:00:05.560 Her burning body was found nine hours later, So what happened? 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:08.640 So the missing nine hours is what we're really trying 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:09.399 to fill in. 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:12.000 Is they planned to do this or was it a 0:00:12.119 --> 0:00:15.120 last minute thing done in haste and panic, because the 0:00:15.160 --> 0:00:17.479 disposal of the body seems to meet not to be 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:18.439 well planned at all. 0:00:18.840 --> 0:00:21.680 Where was she going and who was she going to meet? 0:00:22.239 --> 0:00:25.400 Now we believe that the person that she was going 0:00:25.440 --> 0:00:29.200 to meet is probably the person that killed her. 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.760 I'm Andrew Rules Life in Crimes, and today we welcome 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:39.040 to our humble studio Ashley Hansen, who is interstate and 0:00:39.080 --> 0:00:43.520 she's been working on a big project that is quite fascinating. 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.159 I clearly don't know as much about it as Ashley 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.080 because she's done a heap of work on this, but 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:54.880 it is the big story that's currently hitting the airwaves, 0:00:55.080 --> 0:01:00.440 and it is about the murder of Rachelle Child's in 0:01:00.520 --> 0:01:04.679 two thousand and one, and really it's about the failure 0:01:04.760 --> 0:01:09.319 of the system to work out who killed her twenty 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:11.760 four years ago. Is that about it, Ashley? 0:01:12.520 --> 0:01:14.640 Well, it is a big case. You are right, and 0:01:15.040 --> 0:01:18.040 we do go back to the very beginning of Rochelle's 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.360 life and we focus it on the days and weeks 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:25.319 leading up to her murder, and then we pull apart 0:01:25.360 --> 0:01:28.319 the investigation and go back over the key pieces of 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.080 evidence to put it back out in the public domain, 0:01:31.200 --> 0:01:34.600 because we think that that is the best way where 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:37.639 we're out in terms of twenty twenty five to solve 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:40.200 this case, because it's now been a cold case for 0:01:40.319 --> 0:01:44.679 over twenty three years and the family wants justice. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:48.080 Well, no wonder, now, I cheated before I came in 0:01:48.080 --> 0:01:50.680 to talk to you. I did watch some of it 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:53.120 and get a little bit of an idea. It really 0:01:53.200 --> 0:01:57.400 is a fascinating case because Rachelle, young woman, worked in 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:59.840 a car dealership and you know, I won't say rural 0:02:00.160 --> 0:02:03.880 South Wales but provincial New South Wales. And she was 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:06.639 going to meet and you'll tell us better than I can. 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:08.880 She was going to meet someone we don't know who 0:02:09.400 --> 0:02:12.160 at a particular pub where she had not been before, 0:02:12.840 --> 0:02:15.160 and she vanished. Is that what happened? 0:02:15.880 --> 0:02:18.760 Well, her family say that they found out that she 0:02:18.840 --> 0:02:23.040 was going to meet someone in the days after her disappearance, 0:02:23.200 --> 0:02:26.800 because there was this frantic search for Rochelle. As of 0:02:26.919 --> 0:02:31.079 Friday afternoon they realized that she was missing. But by 0:02:31.160 --> 0:02:33.760 then in the early hours of Friday morning, her burning 0:02:33.800 --> 0:02:37.000 body had been discovered at GIRoA, which is one hundred 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:42.000 kilometers away from her hometown in Bargo, so police hadn't 0:02:42.040 --> 0:02:44.960 put two and two together, and because the body that 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:49.760 was burnt at GIRoA, it took days to formally identify 0:02:49.919 --> 0:02:53.240 that victim. So it wasn't until the Sunday did the 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:56.640 detectives come and inform the family that was still frantically 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:01.079 looking for Rochelle and say, we've actually found her, and 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:05.320 sadly she'd been murdered. So we pull apart the case 0:03:05.400 --> 0:03:07.720 and the days leading up to it, as I said, 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:09.760 and then the days and the weeks and the years 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:13.640 that followed the investigation. But from the family's perspective, they 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:16.240 said that they knew that she was going out because 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:20.040 she had this urgency to go somewhere. She left work early. 0:03:20.120 --> 0:03:23.200 They think that she made it home, so her clothes 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:27.840 that she wore to work were at home, and the 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:31.320 police and her friends found them in the days later 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.480 on the Saturday, I think they confirmed that they were 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:36.840 her clothes. So the belief is and the evidence suggests 0:03:36.840 --> 0:03:39.080 that she did make it home, but where she went 0:03:39.160 --> 0:03:42.440 to after that, nobody knows, and her burning body was 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:46.560 found nine hours later, So what happened, So the missing 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:49.880 nine hours is what we're really trying to fill in 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.480 because there are still so many gaps in this case. 0:03:54.120 --> 0:03:57.560 I can see that. So it's conceivable that whatever went 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.960 wrong could have gone wrong even at her own house, 0:04:00.280 --> 0:04:03.880 that someone could have been waiting for her. She gets changed, 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:06.120 she puts on some other clothes, ready to go out, 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:10.160 and the bad guy turns up and grabs her or 0:04:10.760 --> 0:04:14.800 something there possibly, or she drives off in her old 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.080 blue Commodore that she drove, is it right, her favorite 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:20.279 old car, that's right, and she heads off to perhaps 0:04:20.320 --> 0:04:22.400 the pub where she told her sister she was going. 0:04:22.839 --> 0:04:24.040 I think Bargo Pub. 0:04:24.240 --> 0:04:26.720 She didn't tell her sister that she was going there, 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.680 and we really look into where that information came from. Oh, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.880 in terms of her going to the Bargo Hotel, because 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.640 there aren't any verified sightings of her at the Bargo Hotel. 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:41.719 So initially because her car was found there in the 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:45.120 days after her murder, and this was when the family 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:47.960 was still frantically looking for her. Her car turned up 0:04:48.279 --> 0:04:50.839 parked at the back of the Bargo Hotel. Now back 0:04:50.880 --> 0:04:53.919 in two thousand and one. The Bargo Hotel was a 0:04:53.960 --> 0:04:57.080 bit of a rough pub. The bikes, the local rebels 0:04:57.120 --> 0:05:00.920 bikes used to drink there and it's been renovated now 0:05:00.960 --> 0:05:03.200 and very family friendly, so I want to make sure 0:05:03.240 --> 0:05:05.839 I make that distinction. But at the time, it wasn't 0:05:05.880 --> 0:05:08.159 somewhere where Rochelle would have gone. And a couple of 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:10.960 reasons for that of this, well, she'd never been known 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.880 to go there before. Thursday night was pull competition night 0:05:15.240 --> 0:05:19.200 and it was also topless waitress night, so mostly the 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:22.200 pub was full of men. That was the clientele usually 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.720 on a Thursday night. So the fact that her car 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:29.600 turned up there really stunned her friends and family because 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.080 they were like, what's that car doing here, Like, we've 0:05:32.120 --> 0:05:35.240 never known her to go there, And then the other 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:39.520 clues that police and family have always have come to 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:43.120 the conclusion and belief that she didn't drive her car there, 0:05:43.560 --> 0:05:47.600 but possibly it was a staged crime scene, so whoever 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:51.120 killed her may have dumped her car there to cover 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:53.880 his tracks in some way, And in the beginning, certainly 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.320 it worked because the media reports all around Rochelle and 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.040 her disappearance was this belief that she went to the 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.279 Bargo Hotel and certainly someone who is a key person 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.280 of interest did say that she was going there to 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.680 meet someone. So we go into that and we explore 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:12.320 all of that, but it's a vital piece of the 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:16.200 puzzle because who did drive that car to the pub? 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.960 The pub manager at the time, he gave evidence and 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.760 did a statement with police and he said, there's no 0:06:22.839 --> 0:06:24.720 way she was in this pub. He would have known. 0:06:24.920 --> 0:06:29.080 She was really recognizable because she was blonde, she was attractive, 0:06:29.200 --> 0:06:32.080 she was twenty three, and she would have stood out, 0:06:32.279 --> 0:06:36.680 especially given it was a really bloky night at the pub. 0:06:37.080 --> 0:06:39.680 And there was this other sighting of her at the pub, 0:06:39.720 --> 0:06:41.880 and this is where we think, you know, things could 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:45.800 have been confused over the years. There was a sighting 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.040 of another twenty three year old that night and the 0:06:48.080 --> 0:06:51.440 bartender said, I did serve this blonde woman and she 0:06:51.560 --> 0:06:55.159 was twenty three because she checked her ID. Now that 0:06:55.240 --> 0:06:59.440 person was identified and just by coincidence, that person looked 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:03.400 very simil to Rochelle, but wasn't Rochelle Noe. So that's 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:06.520 all part of it too. So we go back over Yeah, 0:07:06.520 --> 0:07:09.840 the case and the car is just such a yeah. 0:07:09.840 --> 0:07:12.520 As I said, the car is really the key to 0:07:12.600 --> 0:07:15.600 all of this because who drove it and where did 0:07:15.640 --> 0:07:18.000 they go back to? So if the killer drove the 0:07:18.040 --> 0:07:20.120 car there, then how did the killer get home and 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.520 get away? And so we're going we're trying to retrace 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:28.120 the killer's steps and also Rachelle's to try and ultimately 0:07:28.600 --> 0:07:32.560 bring about new witnesses that could potentially be the breakthrough 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:33.600 that this case needs. 0:07:34.360 --> 0:07:36.760 Where else could she have been going? She spoke to 0:07:36.800 --> 0:07:41.240 her sister very briefly because the sister was busy. This 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:43.559 is after work on the night in question. 0:07:44.000 --> 0:07:47.840 So on Thursday, she left Camden Holden shortly after five 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:52.040 pm and there was this phone call with Christy, her sister, 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:55.760 and she was talking really fast on the phone and 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.240 Christy was on the other line. So she said, I'll 0:07:58.240 --> 0:08:01.720 call you back, and she never did, cause that plays 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:03.880 on her mind still to this day, and she holds 0:08:03.960 --> 0:08:07.160 a lot of guilt about not calling her back because 0:08:07.200 --> 0:08:09.640 she didn't really get into what she was doing. And 0:08:09.680 --> 0:08:12.480 obviously Christy had no idea that that would have that 0:08:12.520 --> 0:08:15.000 would be the last time she'd ever speak to her sister. 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:20.640 So there's that phone call which left Christie believing that 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.200 she was definitely going somewhere because she was excited, and 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.560 she was speaking really fast, and that was something that 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.840 she used to do, and she was obviously heading somewhere 0:08:28.880 --> 0:08:32.360 and heading to bargo her home to get changed, so 0:08:32.400 --> 0:08:34.360 she had somewhere to be And a lot of other 0:08:34.400 --> 0:08:37.240 people gave us that evidence and have said that to us, 0:08:37.360 --> 0:08:40.920 like the last customer that served her, So there's no 0:08:40.960 --> 0:08:43.480 sort of confusion around that she was going somewhere, it's 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:46.199 just where was she going and who was she going 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:50.200 to meet. Now we believe that the person that she 0:08:50.400 --> 0:08:55.120 was going to meet is probably the person that killed her. 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:57.560 And the reason for that is because no one came 0:08:57.600 --> 0:09:00.560 forward afterwards and said, well, Rachelle didn't turn up, she 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.160 hasn't met me. So no one's come forward and said 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.640 that she failed to turn up to meet them. So 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.079 that almost rules out the fact that there was this 0:09:08.640 --> 0:09:12.360 random attacker going around and she just happened to cross 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:15.840 spas with someone, you know, a really dangerous man just 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:19.600 by chance that she you know, unlikely, highly unlikely because 0:09:19.640 --> 0:09:22.679 of her actions leading up to it and her excitement. 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.400 But another really important part of this case is her 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:31.800 excitement about being loaned a hold in Walking Shaw. Now, yes, 0:09:32.120 --> 0:09:36.199 I'd never heard of a walking Shaw Andrew had you, I. 0:09:35.720 --> 0:09:40.560 Had, But then again I'm older and you know, different generation, 0:09:40.760 --> 0:09:42.840 and I had heard of walking Shaws. I think I 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:44.880 remember the original walking Shaw. 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.199 There you go. Well, you'll probably know a bit more 0:09:47.240 --> 0:09:48.720 than I do. But I have had to do a 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.040 bit of research into walking Shaws because I've never heard 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:54.679 of them before. But why it's important is because Rochelle 0:09:54.880 --> 0:09:58.880 was a whole and fanatic. She was mad about cars 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:03.319 and particular Holdens. So she held this belief and had 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.880 set it to a couple of people that leading up 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:09.960 to the June Long Weekend, which is the weekend before 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:12.200 she was murdered. She was murdered on the Thursday night. 0:10:13.040 --> 0:10:15.480 The time of her death isn't exactly known, but her 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.800 burning body was found at two just after two am 0:10:18.880 --> 0:10:21.560 on the Friday morning before the June Long Weekend in 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:25.520 two thousand and one. Now, she'd told her sister, and 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.480 she'd also told a few other people close to her 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:31.520 at the time that she was super excited about being 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:37.360 loaned a Holden walking Shaw from Camden Holden. So that 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.199 was her belief for whatever reason. So we really look 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:42.640 into whether or not there was any truth to that. 0:10:43.080 --> 0:10:46.160 Did a walking shaw exist. Was there ever a walkn saw? 0:10:46.240 --> 0:10:48.680 Why did she hold that belief and why did someone 0:10:48.760 --> 0:10:52.160 promise her a walking shaw for the long weekend? And 0:10:52.240 --> 0:10:54.560 being the car found that she was, she was super 0:10:54.600 --> 0:10:55.559 excited about that. 0:10:56.280 --> 0:10:58.839 Great bait to get her in would be to mension 0:10:58.920 --> 0:10:59.560 something like. 0:10:59.480 --> 0:11:03.880 That possibly, and that is a very very strong theory 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:07.319 that you know, was that the bait that got her 0:11:07.480 --> 0:11:10.480 somewhere and got her in a place where she was 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:15.000 vulnerable because she was excited about it. And no walking 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.400 shaw ever turned up. You know, there wasn't one that 0:11:18.480 --> 0:11:20.800 turned up to Camden Holden and that's where she was 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:24.440 working as a saleswoman. And you can probably give some 0:11:24.480 --> 0:11:27.200 insights on this, but the walkingshur at the time they 0:11:27.200 --> 0:11:31.760 were incredibly rare. And also a car yard bringing a 0:11:31.840 --> 0:11:35.160 walk Inshaw into their yard and onto the lot, it 0:11:35.200 --> 0:11:38.679 would need to be ensured. It's not something that would 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.520 be done in secret. It wouldn't just be a surprise 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:43.680 to the manager or to the owner of the car 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:47.400 yard if a car like that was coming in. Everyone 0:11:47.520 --> 0:11:49.680 sort of told us, look, they'd make a big deal 0:11:49.720 --> 0:11:51.640 about it. There'd be a lot of plans in place 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:54.520 as to where are we going to store it. Even then, 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:57.640 if there was one coming in, it's highly unlikely they 0:11:57.640 --> 0:12:00.600 would be loaning it out such an expense in sidcar 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:06.400 to a twenty three year old saleswoman. And what are 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:07.200 your thoughts on that? 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.920 Well, I suspect you're right. If this was a kosher offer, 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:14.040 you'd think there'd be some trace of it. Now. I 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:16.760 don't know whether they'd lend it to her or not. 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.320 Maybe they would if there was a reason, you know, 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:23.600 but there ought to be someone somewhere that knows which 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:26.600 car it was and who had the control of it. 0:12:26.600 --> 0:12:28.640 It sounds as if it's a made up car, doesn't it. 0:12:28.640 --> 0:12:31.880 It sounds like a made up bait to hook her 0:12:31.920 --> 0:12:35.800 in by a manipulative person. 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:39.000 It's it's either true or false, really, isn't it. So 0:12:39.040 --> 0:12:42.360 we look into was there a walking shaw? Did one 0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:43.200 Edward exist? 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:44.000 Yes? 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:48.200 And so we follow that path and explore that theory 0:12:48.240 --> 0:12:52.040 as well, because it is a really important part of 0:12:52.120 --> 0:12:56.400 Rochelle's case. The family believes that all the investigators that 0:12:56.400 --> 0:12:58.920 have worked on it have also believed that as well, 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:03.320 because yeah, why was she promised this walking share and 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:06.480 what happened to it? What happened to Rochelle. You know, 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:10.600 the main part of this case and the biggest unsold 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.960 question is what happened to Rochelle. We don't even know 0:13:14.000 --> 0:13:16.320 where she was killed, you know, as I said, those 0:13:16.440 --> 0:13:20.440 nine missing hours from her possibly going home and getting 0:13:20.520 --> 0:13:23.160 changed yep, And it was nine hours later that her 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:26.960 burning body was found. So in episode three, which is 0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:31.360 are now available, we go through all the witness accounts 0:13:31.400 --> 0:13:34.640 down at GIRoA at seven Mile Beach, which is one 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.400 hundred kilometers away from her home, and some of her 0:13:37.400 --> 0:13:40.160 friends hadn't even heard of GIRoA or seven Mile Beach, 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.640 so again they were shocked that she not only had 0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.960 been murdered, but that her body had turned up there. 0:13:48.600 --> 0:13:50.600 So it was a bit of a mystery to why 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:54.840 that location. So we really look into the location and 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:57.800 talk to experts about the mind of a killer and 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.960 the disposal of a body and what goes into that 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:05.680 that thought process, and that's fascinating stuff because you know, 0:14:06.080 --> 0:14:10.920 the experts give that really psychological insights into what people 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.520 do to try and cover their tracks. And so we 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:18.280 explore the area down there as well, seven Mile Beach, 0:14:18.480 --> 0:14:23.320 and the car sightings as well, because her car or 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:26.600 a car very similar to Rachelle's. So police have the 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:30.320 view that her car was used to go to GIRoA, 0:14:30.440 --> 0:14:32.960 whether the killer took her body down there, or whether 0:14:33.000 --> 0:14:36.480 the killer drove her down there and she was murdered 0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:40.680 down at GIRoA. But there was all these car sightings 0:14:40.920 --> 0:14:44.200 of the car moving near where her body was found, 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:46.880 moving from one side of the road to the other. 0:14:47.080 --> 0:14:51.280 So we look at whether or not burning her body 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.400 was planned b which goes to the mindset of the 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:58.800 killer as well, which helps to profile this killer as well. 0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:01.880 Was it planned because if her murder was planned, it 0:15:02.040 --> 0:15:05.760 wasn't planned very well. But at the same time, this 0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:08.560 person or these people responsible have got away with it, 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:12.760 and they had a lot of things go their way, unfortunately, 0:15:12.960 --> 0:15:16.080 because there were so many failures in the initial investigation. 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:20.560 Sadly, yes, you can see that if this had happened 0:15:20.720 --> 0:15:23.280 in the last five years, parts of this puzzle would 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:27.600 not be a mystery because there'd be more CCTV footage, 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:30.200 et cetera, et cetera. Now, even the fact that this 0:15:30.280 --> 0:15:33.680 person had accelerant, they had petrol or kerosene or whatever 0:15:34.680 --> 0:15:37.160 they had that already with them because they'd planned to 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.680 do this, or was it a last minute thing done 0:15:40.680 --> 0:15:43.880 in haste and panic, because the disposal of the body 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:45.960 seems to me not to be well planned at all. 0:15:46.040 --> 0:15:49.800 It's right beside the busy road, as one of the 0:15:49.840 --> 0:15:53.280 investigators points out, if you stand where her body was found, 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:56.200 people can see you from the road. It's not a 0:15:56.240 --> 0:15:58.400 great spot to hide a body. So it looks as 0:15:58.400 --> 0:16:02.360 if it was done really quick and in haste. And 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:05.400 they've said, oh, hell, I've got a burner because my 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:08.640 DNA will be on it. So they've just burnt her. 0:16:09.360 --> 0:16:11.640 But did they go and get some fuel to do that? 0:16:12.000 --> 0:16:14.040 So you know, did they go to a service station 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.280 three kilometers away and buy some fuel and come back 0:16:18.320 --> 0:16:21.680 and burn the body, there'd be all these little possibilities. 0:16:21.880 --> 0:16:24.280 The other thing is I noticed that she was pictured 0:16:24.320 --> 0:16:26.160 with Peter Brock at some stage. 0:16:26.200 --> 0:16:29.520 When was that, I'm not exactly sure, but it was 0:16:29.560 --> 0:16:33.160 a couple of years before her death, and Peter Brock 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:36.720 was her idol. Yes, and that was even the number 0:16:36.880 --> 0:16:39.320 his number which I think it was number five, was 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:43.280 on her headstone and it was it was really touching 0:16:43.320 --> 0:16:45.840 when I went to the cemetery with her sister to 0:16:45.880 --> 0:16:49.960 see her headstone, and she has a picture there of 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:53.360 herself and I think it's Peter Brock's car or a 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.720 picture of her and Peter Brock as well, but definitely 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.120 pays tribute to him because he was her idol and 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:03.160 as I said, she was a huge Holden fan. So 0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:07.080 we're hoping that we might get some Holden fans following 0:17:07.160 --> 0:17:10.280 us in the podcast as well. Probably will Filling in 0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:13.000 any gaps in the case as well would help a lot. 0:17:14.160 --> 0:17:17.800 It could happen. Sometimes experts can help with subtle things. 0:17:18.240 --> 0:17:21.960 I mean, even putting out the walking Shaw story, it 0:17:22.119 --> 0:17:26.200 might produce someone with specific knowledge out there who goes, well, 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:29.159 I'll tell you where they all were right then or 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:32.560 where they weren't, and the people that know all these 0:17:32.560 --> 0:17:35.840 things might be able to help triangulate something about the 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:36.760 walking Shaw story. 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:40.760 Yes, we're very much interested in any of that kind 0:17:40.800 --> 0:17:44.120 of information because it wasn't uncommon at the time as 0:17:44.160 --> 0:17:49.959 well to mock up a Holden walking Shaw. So we 0:17:50.040 --> 0:17:56.320 don't know if okay, the fakes and the genuine walking 0:17:56.320 --> 0:17:57.560 Shaws were all checked. 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:02.560 Of course, there's that. It's a very interesting thing. And see, 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:05.800 the person that made the offer to her must know 0:18:05.880 --> 0:18:09.280 about walking shores. They must know something, because you can't 0:18:09.320 --> 0:18:11.800 make up what you don't know, really, can you. They 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.480 must have some knowledge in order to raise that who 0:18:15.480 --> 0:18:21.080 attract her attention. So that tells us that this manipulative killer, 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:27.200 sex killer probably has some knowledge of Australian cars and 0:18:27.400 --> 0:18:30.960 racing cars and hot cars, that sort of stuff. I know, 0:18:31.080 --> 0:18:32.000 that's a broad church. 0:18:32.200 --> 0:18:34.600 I believe that strongly, and I think most of the 0:18:34.680 --> 0:18:39.119 investigators on the case would agree to Yeah. 0:18:38.600 --> 0:18:42.560 So that at least gives them a broad group of people. 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:47.920 I've noticed in just checking before we've spoke that you 0:18:48.160 --> 0:18:53.119 investigators have found something like nine people ex boyfriends or 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.959 whatever of Rochelle's and eight of them have sort of 0:18:57.119 --> 0:19:01.800 been able to ali by themselves or whatever. That hasn't yes, 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:03.919 So what can you say about that? 0:19:04.760 --> 0:19:07.640 Well, so there were nine initially, there were nine persons 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:11.480 of interest in Rochelle's murder. And if you think about it, 0:19:11.520 --> 0:19:15.080 she was a single woman, She worked in a male 0:19:15.119 --> 0:19:17.439 dominated industry. She was a bit of a tomboy, so 0:19:17.560 --> 0:19:19.600 her circle of friends she had a lot of male 0:19:19.640 --> 0:19:22.919 friends as well. Because of her love of cars. She 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:27.760 rode horses, but she also played cricket, so her social 0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:32.520 circle was quite large. As well as her work circle. 0:19:32.640 --> 0:19:36.400 So they started off with nine persons of interest, and 0:19:36.440 --> 0:19:39.600 then during the inquest, which was held in two thousand 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:42.520 and six to two thousand and eight, it really just 0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:46.719 narrowed down to one man, her boss. Now he was 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.320 named as a prime suspect in her murder, and still 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:53.240 to this day he remains the prime suspect in her murder. 0:19:53.520 --> 0:19:57.119 He was her boss at Camden Holden, so she worked 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:00.440 with him for about a year and according to in 0:20:00.480 --> 0:20:04.159 all of her work colleagues, she really looked up to 0:20:04.280 --> 0:20:07.840 him like a father figure. And there were a lot 0:20:07.840 --> 0:20:11.960 of people that also felt like he had this obsession 0:20:12.000 --> 0:20:15.439 with her, that he had this Yeah, there's just a 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:19.440 particularly interest in her. He may have been favoring her 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.600 and affording her perks of the job that weren't afforded 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:27.080 to everyone else, for example, letting her alone whatever cars 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:31.240 and pushing her into sales. And you know, was he 0:20:31.440 --> 0:20:34.080 being a mentor, because certainly a lot of people say 0:20:34.119 --> 0:20:37.720 that his behavior wasn't really in line with a genuine mentor. 0:20:37.920 --> 0:20:40.520 People have said that he liked her, you know, and 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:43.840 he was a lot older than her, and I think 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.120 it was the dynamic, you know, she was twenty three. 0:20:46.240 --> 0:20:50.480 She was described as naive and she was also learning 0:20:50.480 --> 0:20:52.479 a lot. She loved her job and he was the 0:20:52.480 --> 0:20:54.879 one that used to teach her. So she had a 0:20:54.880 --> 0:20:56.760 lot of faith in him and a lot of trust. 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:01.840 And so we look into him and his past and yeah, 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.760 his alibi. We do a deep dive on his alibi. 0:21:05.640 --> 0:21:08.119 Where is he now and why are we talking so 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:09.560 frankly about him? 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:12.719 I can't disclose where he is now, but he is 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:17.240 still considered a suspect in Rochelle's murder, and he has 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:22.680 always strenuously denied any involvement in Rochelle's death. The coroner 0:21:22.800 --> 0:21:26.080 had an open finding in two thousand and eight, so 0:21:26.520 --> 0:21:30.840 basically didn't identify or didn't refer the matter to the DPP. 0:21:31.520 --> 0:21:34.840 But she did say that Rochelle was a victim of homicide, 0:21:35.480 --> 0:21:39.639 but who killed her was never determined by the inquest. 0:21:40.040 --> 0:21:43.880 But through that process, all the other persons of interest 0:21:44.080 --> 0:21:46.080 by one man were ruled out. 0:21:46.320 --> 0:21:48.520 So we'd perhaps call him a person of interest. 0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:51.320 Yes, you could call him a significant person of interest, 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:52.480 I think would be very fair. 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:55.919 So he's still with us, He's up there somewhere in 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:57.119 New South Wales. 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.680 Yes, he's still he's still in the community. As I say, 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:04.840 he's never been charged over Rochelle's murder. He did participate 0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:09.520 willingly in three records of interview with detectives and he 0:22:09.640 --> 0:22:13.040 was very closely looked at. His alibi was looked at. 0:22:13.480 --> 0:22:15.879 He gave a very involved alibi on the seventh of 0:22:15.960 --> 0:22:19.400 June two thousand and one, but not a single person 0:22:19.640 --> 0:22:22.880 can back that up. There wasn't another witness to back 0:22:22.960 --> 0:22:26.560