1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:05,560 Speaker 1: Her burning body was found nine hours later, So what happened? 2 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,640 Speaker 1: So the missing nine hours is what we're really trying 3 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:09,399 Speaker 1: to fill in. 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,000 Speaker 2: Is they planned to do this or was it a 5 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 2: last minute thing done in haste and panic, because the 6 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 2: disposal of the body seems to meet not to be 7 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 2: well planned at all. 8 00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: Where was she going and who was she going to meet? 9 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: Now we believe that the person that she was going 10 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: to meet is probably the person that killed her. 11 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: I'm Andrew Rules Life in Crimes, and today we welcome 12 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 2: to our humble studio Ashley Hansen, who is interstate and 13 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:43,520 Speaker 2: she's been working on a big project that is quite fascinating. 14 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: I clearly don't know as much about it as Ashley 15 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 2: because she's done a heap of work on this, but 16 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 2: it is the big story that's currently hitting the airwaves, 17 00:00:55,080 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: and it is about the murder of Rachelle Child's in 18 00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: two thousand and one, and really it's about the failure 19 00:01:04,760 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 2: of the system to work out who killed her twenty 20 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 2: four years ago. Is that about it, Ashley? 21 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:14,640 Speaker 1: Well, it is a big case. You are right, and 22 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:18,040 Speaker 1: we do go back to the very beginning of Rochelle's 23 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:21,360 Speaker 1: life and we focus it on the days and weeks 24 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: leading up to her murder, and then we pull apart 25 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,319 Speaker 1: the investigation and go back over the key pieces of 26 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: evidence to put it back out in the public domain, 27 00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 1: because we think that that is the best way where 28 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,639 Speaker 1: we're out in terms of twenty twenty five to solve 29 00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: this case, because it's now been a cold case for 30 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:44,679 Speaker 1: over twenty three years and the family wants justice. 31 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: Well, no wonder, now, I cheated before I came in 32 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 2: to talk to you. I did watch some of it 33 00:01:50,760 --> 00:01:53,120 Speaker 2: and get a little bit of an idea. It really 34 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: is a fascinating case because Rachelle, young woman, worked in 35 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 2: a car dealership and you know, I won't say rural 36 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: South Wales but provincial New South Wales. And she was 37 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,639 Speaker 2: going to meet and you'll tell us better than I can. 38 00:02:06,840 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 2: She was going to meet someone we don't know who 39 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 2: at a particular pub where she had not been before, 40 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: and she vanished. Is that what happened? 41 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:18,760 Speaker 1: Well, her family say that they found out that she 42 00:02:18,840 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: was going to meet someone in the days after her disappearance, 43 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,800 Speaker 1: because there was this frantic search for Rochelle. As of 44 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 1: Friday afternoon they realized that she was missing. But by 45 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: then in the early hours of Friday morning, her burning 46 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: body had been discovered at GIRoA, which is one hundred 47 00:02:37,080 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: kilometers away from her hometown in Bargo, so police hadn't 48 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: put two and two together, and because the body that 49 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:49,760 Speaker 1: was burnt at GIRoA, it took days to formally identify 50 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 1: that victim. So it wasn't until the Sunday did the 51 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:56,640 Speaker 1: detectives come and inform the family that was still frantically 52 00:02:56,680 --> 00:03:01,079 Speaker 1: looking for Rochelle and say, we've actually found her, and 53 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 1: sadly she'd been murdered. So we pull apart the case 54 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: and the days leading up to it, as I said, 55 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: and then the days and the weeks and the years 56 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,640 Speaker 1: that followed the investigation. But from the family's perspective, they 57 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,240 Speaker 1: said that they knew that she was going out because 58 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: she had this urgency to go somewhere. She left work early. 59 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:23,200 Speaker 1: They think that she made it home, so her clothes 60 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: that she wore to work were at home, and the 61 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: police and her friends found them in the days later 62 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 1: on the Saturday, I think they confirmed that they were 63 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: her clothes. So the belief is and the evidence suggests 64 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,080 Speaker 1: that she did make it home, but where she went 65 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,440 Speaker 1: to after that, nobody knows, and her burning body was 66 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 1: found nine hours later, So what happened, So the missing 67 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,880 Speaker 1: nine hours is what we're really trying to fill in 68 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,480 Speaker 1: because there are still so many gaps in this case. 69 00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 2: I can see that. So it's conceivable that whatever went 70 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: wrong could have gone wrong even at her own house, 71 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 2: that someone could have been waiting for her. She gets changed, 72 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,120 Speaker 2: she puts on some other clothes, ready to go out, 73 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 2: and the bad guy turns up and grabs her or 74 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,800 Speaker 2: something there possibly, or she drives off in her old 75 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:17,080 Speaker 2: blue Commodore that she drove, is it right, her favorite 76 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 2: old car, that's right, and she heads off to perhaps 77 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,400 Speaker 2: the pub where she told her sister she was going. 78 00:04:22,839 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 2: I think Bargo Pub. 79 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:26,720 Speaker 1: She didn't tell her sister that she was going there, 80 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 1: and we really look into where that information came from. Oh, 81 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: in terms of her going to the Bargo Hotel, because 82 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: there aren't any verified sightings of her at the Bargo Hotel. 83 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:41,719 Speaker 1: So initially because her car was found there in the 84 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: days after her murder, and this was when the family 85 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 1: was still frantically looking for her. Her car turned up 86 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: parked at the back of the Bargo Hotel. Now back 87 00:04:50,880 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: in two thousand and one. The Bargo Hotel was a 88 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,080 Speaker 1: bit of a rough pub. The bikes, the local rebels 89 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: bikes used to drink there and it's been renovated now 90 00:05:00,960 --> 00:05:03,200 Speaker 1: and very family friendly, so I want to make sure 91 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:05,839 Speaker 1: I make that distinction. But at the time, it wasn't 92 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: somewhere where Rochelle would have gone. And a couple of 93 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:10,960 Speaker 1: reasons for that of this, well, she'd never been known 94 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 1: to go there before. Thursday night was pull competition night 95 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:19,200 Speaker 1: and it was also topless waitress night, so mostly the 96 00:05:19,240 --> 00:05:22,200 Speaker 1: pub was full of men. That was the clientele usually 97 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: on a Thursday night. So the fact that her car 98 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:29,600 Speaker 1: turned up there really stunned her friends and family because 99 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 1: they were like, what's that car doing here, Like, we've 100 00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: never known her to go there, And then the other 101 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: clues that police and family have always have come to 102 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: the conclusion and belief that she didn't drive her car there, 103 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,600 Speaker 1: but possibly it was a staged crime scene, so whoever 104 00:05:47,720 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: killed her may have dumped her car there to cover 105 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:53,880 Speaker 1: his tracks in some way, And in the beginning, certainly 106 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:57,320 Speaker 1: it worked because the media reports all around Rochelle and 107 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:00,040 Speaker 1: her disappearance was this belief that she went to the 108 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,279 Speaker 1: Bargo Hotel and certainly someone who is a key person 109 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,280 Speaker 1: of interest did say that she was going there to 110 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: meet someone. So we go into that and we explore 111 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: all of that, but it's a vital piece of the 112 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 1: puzzle because who did drive that car to the pub? 113 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 1: The pub manager at the time, he gave evidence and 114 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 1: did a statement with police and he said, there's no 115 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:24,720 Speaker 1: way she was in this pub. He would have known. 116 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 1: She was really recognizable because she was blonde, she was attractive, 117 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: she was twenty three, and she would have stood out, 118 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: especially given it was a really bloky night at the pub. 119 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,680 Speaker 1: And there was this other sighting of her at the pub, 120 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:41,880 Speaker 1: and this is where we think, you know, things could 121 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 1: have been confused over the years. There was a sighting 122 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: of another twenty three year old that night and the 123 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 1: bartender said, I did serve this blonde woman and she 124 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,159 Speaker 1: was twenty three because she checked her ID. Now that 125 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 1: person was identified and just by coincidence, that person looked 126 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,400 Speaker 1: very simil to Rochelle, but wasn't Rochelle Noe. So that's 127 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: all part of it too. So we go back over Yeah, 128 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: the case and the car is just such a yeah. 129 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:12,520 Speaker 1: As I said, the car is really the key to 130 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:15,600 Speaker 1: all of this because who drove it and where did 131 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: they go back to? So if the killer drove the 132 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,120 Speaker 1: car there, then how did the killer get home and 133 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 1: get away? And so we're going we're trying to retrace 134 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:28,120 Speaker 1: the killer's steps and also Rachelle's to try and ultimately 135 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: bring about new witnesses that could potentially be the breakthrough 136 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: that this case needs. 137 00:07:34,360 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 2: Where else could she have been going? She spoke to 138 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 2: her sister very briefly because the sister was busy. This 139 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:43,559 Speaker 2: is after work on the night in question. 140 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,840 Speaker 1: So on Thursday, she left Camden Holden shortly after five 141 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,040 Speaker 1: pm and there was this phone call with Christy, her sister, 142 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: and she was talking really fast on the phone and 143 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: Christy was on the other line. So she said, I'll 144 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:01,720 Speaker 1: call you back, and she never did, cause that plays 145 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:03,880 Speaker 1: on her mind still to this day, and she holds 146 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 1: a lot of guilt about not calling her back because 147 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: she didn't really get into what she was doing. And 148 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 1: obviously Christy had no idea that that would have that 149 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 1: would be the last time she'd ever speak to her sister. 150 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: So there's that phone call which left Christie believing that 151 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:24,200 Speaker 1: she was definitely going somewhere because she was excited, and 152 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 1: she was speaking really fast, and that was something that 153 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:28,840 Speaker 1: she used to do, and she was obviously heading somewhere 154 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 1: and heading to bargo her home to get changed, so 155 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:34,360 Speaker 1: she had somewhere to be And a lot of other 156 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,240 Speaker 1: people gave us that evidence and have said that to us, 157 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: like the last customer that served her, So there's no 158 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: sort of confusion around that she was going somewhere, it's 159 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 1: just where was she going and who was she going 160 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 1: to meet. Now we believe that the person that she 161 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:55,120 Speaker 1: was going to meet is probably the person that killed her. 162 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: And the reason for that is because no one came 163 00:08:57,600 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: forward afterwards and said, well, Rachelle didn't turn up, she 164 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 1: hasn't met me. So no one's come forward and said 165 00:09:03,160 --> 00:09:05,640 Speaker 1: that she failed to turn up to meet them. So 166 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: that almost rules out the fact that there was this 167 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: random attacker going around and she just happened to cross 168 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: spas with someone, you know, a really dangerous man just 169 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:19,600 Speaker 1: by chance that she you know, unlikely, highly unlikely because 170 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:22,679 Speaker 1: of her actions leading up to it and her excitement. 171 00:09:22,760 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: But another really important part of this case is her 172 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: excitement about being loaned a hold in Walking Shaw. Now, yes, 173 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:36,199 Speaker 1: I'd never heard of a walking Shaw Andrew had you, I. 174 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 2: Had, But then again I'm older and you know, different generation, 175 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: and I had heard of walking Shaws. I think I 176 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:44,880 Speaker 2: remember the original walking Shaw. 177 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 1: There you go. Well, you'll probably know a bit more 178 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,720 Speaker 1: than I do. But I have had to do a 179 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: bit of research into walking Shaws because I've never heard 180 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: of them before. But why it's important is because Rochelle 181 00:09:54,880 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: was a whole and fanatic. She was mad about cars 182 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:03,319 Speaker 1: and particular Holdens. So she held this belief and had 183 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: set it to a couple of people that leading up 184 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 1: to the June Long Weekend, which is the weekend before 185 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,200 Speaker 1: she was murdered. She was murdered on the Thursday night. 186 00:10:13,040 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: The time of her death isn't exactly known, but her 187 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 1: burning body was found at two just after two am 188 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:21,560 Speaker 1: on the Friday morning before the June Long Weekend in 189 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: two thousand and one. Now, she'd told her sister, and 190 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,480 Speaker 1: she'd also told a few other people close to her 191 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:31,520 Speaker 1: at the time that she was super excited about being 192 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: loaned a Holden walking Shaw from Camden Holden. So that 193 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,199 Speaker 1: was her belief for whatever reason. So we really look 194 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: into whether or not there was any truth to that. 195 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 1: Did a walking shaw exist. Was there ever a walkn saw? 196 00:10:46,240 --> 00:10:48,680 Speaker 1: Why did she hold that belief and why did someone 197 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:52,160 Speaker 1: promise her a walking shaw for the long weekend? And 198 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:54,560 Speaker 1: being the car found that she was, she was super 199 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:55,559 Speaker 1: excited about that. 200 00:10:56,280 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 2: Great bait to get her in would be to mension 201 00:10:58,920 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 2: something like. 202 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: That possibly, and that is a very very strong theory 203 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: that you know, was that the bait that got her 204 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:10,480 Speaker 1: somewhere and got her in a place where she was 205 00:11:10,559 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 1: vulnerable because she was excited about it. And no walking 206 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:18,400 Speaker 1: shaw ever turned up. You know, there wasn't one that 207 00:11:18,480 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 1: turned up to Camden Holden and that's where she was 208 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,440 Speaker 1: working as a saleswoman. And you can probably give some 209 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:27,200 Speaker 1: insights on this, but the walkingshur at the time they 210 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:31,760 Speaker 1: were incredibly rare. And also a car yard bringing a 211 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 1: walk Inshaw into their yard and onto the lot, it 212 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 1: would need to be ensured. It's not something that would 213 00:11:38,679 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: be done in secret. It wouldn't just be a surprise 214 00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,680 Speaker 1: to the manager or to the owner of the car 215 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:47,400 Speaker 1: yard if a car like that was coming in. Everyone 216 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,680 Speaker 1: sort of told us, look, they'd make a big deal 217 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:51,640 Speaker 1: about it. There'd be a lot of plans in place 218 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 1: as to where are we going to store it. Even then, 219 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: if there was one coming in, it's highly unlikely they 220 00:11:57,640 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 1: would be loaning it out such an expense in sidcar 221 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: to a twenty three year old saleswoman. And what are 222 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: your thoughts on that? 223 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: Well, I suspect you're right. If this was a kosher offer, 224 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,040 Speaker 2: you'd think there'd be some trace of it. Now. I 225 00:12:14,080 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 2: don't know whether they'd lend it to her or not. 226 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 2: Maybe they would if there was a reason, you know, 227 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: but there ought to be someone somewhere that knows which 228 00:12:23,640 --> 00:12:26,600 Speaker 2: car it was and who had the control of it. 229 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 2: It sounds as if it's a made up car, doesn't it. 230 00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:31,880 Speaker 2: It sounds like a made up bait to hook her 231 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 2: in by a manipulative person. 232 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: It's it's either true or false, really, isn't it. So 233 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,360 Speaker 1: we look into was there a walking shaw? Did one 234 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: Edward exist? 235 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 2: Yes? 236 00:12:44,840 --> 00:12:48,200 Speaker 1: And so we follow that path and explore that theory 237 00:12:48,240 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: as well, because it is a really important part of 238 00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: Rochelle's case. The family believes that all the investigators that 239 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:58,920 Speaker 1: have worked on it have also believed that as well, 240 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:03,320 Speaker 1: because yeah, why was she promised this walking share and 241 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 1: what happened to it? What happened to Rochelle. You know, 242 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,600 Speaker 1: the main part of this case and the biggest unsold 243 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: question is what happened to Rochelle. We don't even know 244 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:16,320 Speaker 1: where she was killed, you know, as I said, those 245 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: nine missing hours from her possibly going home and getting 246 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: changed yep, And it was nine hours later that her 247 00:13:23,160 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: burning body was found. So in episode three, which is 248 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 1: are now available, we go through all the witness accounts 249 00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: down at GIRoA at seven Mile Beach, which is one 250 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: hundred kilometers away from her home, and some of her 251 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:40,160 Speaker 1: friends hadn't even heard of GIRoA or seven Mile Beach, 252 00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 1: so again they were shocked that she not only had 253 00:13:44,640 --> 00:13:47,960 Speaker 1: been murdered, but that her body had turned up there. 254 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: So it was a bit of a mystery to why 255 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 1: that location. So we really look into the location and 256 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: talk to experts about the mind of a killer and 257 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: the disposal of a body and what goes into that 258 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:05,680 Speaker 1: that thought process, and that's fascinating stuff because you know, 259 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 1: the experts give that really psychological insights into what people 260 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 1: do to try and cover their tracks. And so we 261 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:18,280 Speaker 1: explore the area down there as well, seven Mile Beach, 262 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:23,320 Speaker 1: and the car sightings as well, because her car or 263 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: a car very similar to Rachelle's. So police have the 264 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: view that her car was used to go to GIRoA, 265 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,960 Speaker 1: whether the killer took her body down there, or whether 266 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: the killer drove her down there and she was murdered 267 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 1: down at GIRoA. But there was all these car sightings 268 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 1: of the car moving near where her body was found, 269 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: moving from one side of the road to the other. 270 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,280 Speaker 1: So we look at whether or not burning her body 271 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: was planned b which goes to the mindset of the 272 00:14:54,480 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: killer as well, which helps to profile this killer as well. 273 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 1: Was it planned because if her murder was planned, it 274 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: wasn't planned very well. But at the same time, this 275 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,560 Speaker 1: person or these people responsible have got away with it, 276 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:12,760 Speaker 1: and they had a lot of things go their way, unfortunately, 277 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:16,080 Speaker 1: because there were so many failures in the initial investigation. 278 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 2: Sadly, yes, you can see that if this had happened 279 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:23,280 Speaker 2: in the last five years, parts of this puzzle would 280 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:27,600 Speaker 2: not be a mystery because there'd be more CCTV footage, 281 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. Now, even the fact that this 282 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,680 Speaker 2: person had accelerant, they had petrol or kerosene or whatever 283 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,160 Speaker 2: they had that already with them because they'd planned to 284 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 2: do this, or was it a last minute thing done 285 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 2: in haste and panic, because the disposal of the body 286 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 2: seems to me not to be well planned at all. 287 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,800 Speaker 2: It's right beside the busy road, as one of the 288 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,280 Speaker 2: investigators points out, if you stand where her body was found, 289 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,200 Speaker 2: people can see you from the road. It's not a 290 00:15:56,240 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: great spot to hide a body. So it looks as 291 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 2: if it was done really quick and in haste. And 292 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 2: they've said, oh, hell, I've got a burner because my 293 00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:08,640 Speaker 2: DNA will be on it. So they've just burnt her. 294 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:11,640 Speaker 2: But did they go and get some fuel to do that? 295 00:16:12,000 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 2: So you know, did they go to a service station 296 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 2: three kilometers away and buy some fuel and come back 297 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 2: and burn the body, there'd be all these little possibilities. 298 00:16:21,880 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 2: The other thing is I noticed that she was pictured 299 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 2: with Peter Brock at some stage. 300 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: When was that, I'm not exactly sure, but it was 301 00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: a couple of years before her death, and Peter Brock 302 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:36,720 Speaker 1: was her idol. Yes, and that was even the number 303 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,320 Speaker 1: his number which I think it was number five, was 304 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 1: on her headstone and it was it was really touching 305 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: when I went to the cemetery with her sister to 306 00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: see her headstone, and she has a picture there of 307 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,360 Speaker 1: herself and I think it's Peter Brock's car or a 308 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: picture of her and Peter Brock as well, but definitely 309 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,120 Speaker 1: pays tribute to him because he was her idol and 310 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 1: as I said, she was a huge Holden fan. So 311 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: we're hoping that we might get some Holden fans following 312 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: us in the podcast as well. Probably will Filling in 313 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:13,000 Speaker 1: any gaps in the case as well would help a lot. 314 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,800 Speaker 2: It could happen. Sometimes experts can help with subtle things. 315 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:21,960 Speaker 2: I mean, even putting out the walking Shaw story, it 316 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 2: might produce someone with specific knowledge out there who goes, well, 317 00:17:26,320 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 2: I'll tell you where they all were right then or 318 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 2: where they weren't, and the people that know all these 319 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 2: things might be able to help triangulate something about the 320 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 2: walking Shaw story. 321 00:17:37,640 --> 00:17:40,760 Speaker 1: Yes, we're very much interested in any of that kind 322 00:17:40,800 --> 00:17:44,120 Speaker 1: of information because it wasn't uncommon at the time as 323 00:17:44,160 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 1: well to mock up a Holden walking Shaw. So we 324 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 1: don't know if okay, the fakes and the genuine walking 325 00:17:56,320 --> 00:17:57,560 Speaker 1: Shaws were all checked. 326 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,560 Speaker 2: Of course, there's that. It's a very interesting thing. And see, 327 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,800 Speaker 2: the person that made the offer to her must know 328 00:18:05,880 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 2: about walking shores. They must know something, because you can't 329 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 2: make up what you don't know, really, can you. They 330 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 2: must have some knowledge in order to raise that who 331 00:18:15,480 --> 00:18:21,080 Speaker 2: attract her attention. So that tells us that this manipulative killer, 332 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:27,200 Speaker 2: sex killer probably has some knowledge of Australian cars and 333 00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:30,960 Speaker 2: racing cars and hot cars, that sort of stuff. I know, 334 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:32,000 Speaker 2: that's a broad church. 335 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,600 Speaker 1: I believe that strongly, and I think most of the 336 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:39,119 Speaker 1: investigators on the case would agree to Yeah. 337 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 2: So that at least gives them a broad group of people. 338 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 2: I've noticed in just checking before we've spoke that you 339 00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 2: investigators have found something like nine people ex boyfriends or 340 00:18:53,119 --> 00:18:56,959 Speaker 2: whatever of Rochelle's and eight of them have sort of 341 00:18:57,119 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 2: been able to ali by themselves or whatever. That hasn't yes, 342 00:19:02,080 --> 00:19:03,919 Speaker 2: So what can you say about that? 343 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,640 Speaker 1: Well, so there were nine initially, there were nine persons 344 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: of interest in Rochelle's murder. And if you think about it, 345 00:19:11,520 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: she was a single woman, She worked in a male 346 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: dominated industry. She was a bit of a tomboy, so 347 00:19:17,560 --> 00:19:19,600 Speaker 1: her circle of friends she had a lot of male 348 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: friends as well. Because of her love of cars. She 349 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,760 Speaker 1: rode horses, but she also played cricket, so her social 350 00:19:27,880 --> 00:19:32,520 Speaker 1: circle was quite large. As well as her work circle. 351 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:36,400 Speaker 1: So they started off with nine persons of interest, and 352 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: then during the inquest, which was held in two thousand 353 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 1: and six to two thousand and eight, it really just 354 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:46,719 Speaker 1: narrowed down to one man, her boss. Now he was 355 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,320 Speaker 1: named as a prime suspect in her murder, and still 356 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,240 Speaker 1: to this day he remains the prime suspect in her murder. 357 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:57,119 Speaker 1: He was her boss at Camden Holden, so she worked 358 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 1: with him for about a year and according to in 359 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 1: all of her work colleagues, she really looked up to 360 00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 1: him like a father figure. And there were a lot 361 00:20:07,840 --> 00:20:11,960 Speaker 1: of people that also felt like he had this obsession 362 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,439 Speaker 1: with her, that he had this Yeah, there's just a 363 00:20:15,440 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: particularly interest in her. He may have been favoring her 364 00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: and affording her perks of the job that weren't afforded 365 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: to everyone else, for example, letting her alone whatever cars 366 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:31,240 Speaker 1: and pushing her into sales. And you know, was he 367 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 1: being a mentor, because certainly a lot of people say 368 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: that his behavior wasn't really in line with a genuine mentor. 369 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 1: People have said that he liked her, you know, and 370 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: he was a lot older than her, and I think 371 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:46,120 Speaker 1: it was the dynamic, you know, she was twenty three. 372 00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 1: She was described as naive and she was also learning 373 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,479 Speaker 1: a lot. She loved her job and he was the 374 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:54,879 Speaker 1: one that used to teach her. So she had a 375 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,760 Speaker 1: lot of faith in him and a lot of trust. 376 00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: And so we look into him and his past and yeah, 377 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,760 Speaker 1: his alibi. We do a deep dive on his alibi. 378 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,119 Speaker 2: Where is he now and why are we talking so 379 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 2: frankly about him? 380 00:21:10,000 --> 00:21:12,719 Speaker 1: I can't disclose where he is now, but he is 381 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:17,240 Speaker 1: still considered a suspect in Rochelle's murder, and he has 382 00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: always strenuously denied any involvement in Rochelle's death. The coroner 383 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:26,080 Speaker 1: had an open finding in two thousand and eight, so 384 00:21:26,520 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: basically didn't identify or didn't refer the matter to the DPP. 385 00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: But she did say that Rochelle was a victim of homicide, 386 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: but who killed her was never determined by the inquest. 387 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: But through that process, all the other persons of interest 388 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,080 Speaker 1: by one man were ruled out. 389 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:48,520 Speaker 2: So we'd perhaps call him a person of interest. 390 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,320 Speaker 1: Yes, you could call him a significant person of interest, 391 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:52,480 Speaker 1: I think would be very fair. 392 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 2: So he's still with us, He's up there somewhere in 393 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:57,119 Speaker 2: New South Wales. 394 00:21:57,359 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 1: Yes, he's still he's still in the community. As I say, 395 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,840 Speaker 1: he's never been charged over Rochelle's murder. He did participate 396 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,520 Speaker 1: willingly in three records of interview with detectives and he 397 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:13,040 Speaker 1: was very closely looked at. His alibi was looked at. 398 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:15,879 Speaker 1: He gave a very involved alibi on the seventh of 399 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: June two thousand and one, but not a single person 400 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,880 Speaker 1: can back that up. There wasn't another witness to back 401 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: up his alibi. So that's interesting, and we just take 402 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 1: a deep dive into his past and just re examine 403 00:22:31,359 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 1: the evidence that we know about and also look at 404 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:37,360 Speaker 1: new evidence and people that are coming forward and speaking 405 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 1: out after all of these years, and they're prompted to 406 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:46,120 Speaker 1: speak out because of Rochelle and because of the injustice 407 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,840 Speaker 1: that really is centered on this case. You know, someone 408 00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: has got away with murder for over twenty three years. 409 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,679 Speaker 1: And someone or the people that would do that to 410 00:22:55,760 --> 00:23:00,080 Speaker 1: a young, innocent, beautiful woman who was loved by so many, 411 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:02,560 Speaker 1: I mean, they're a dangerous person. And what I will 412 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:05,679 Speaker 1: say as well is most investigators. The theory is that 413 00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: investigators believe that this was a sexually motivated attack. So 414 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:14,760 Speaker 1: because she was found partially naked from the waist down, 415 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: and because of the fire, you couldn't determined whether they'd 416 00:23:18,280 --> 00:23:22,399 Speaker 1: been a sexual attack. But from investigators and police perspective, 417 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:26,400 Speaker 1: they always treated this as a sexually motivated attack, and 418 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 1: the fire was to destroy evidence, to destroy DNA. So 419 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:34,399 Speaker 1: the killer, you know, essentially has got away with murder 420 00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 1: and a very very dangerous man. 421 00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,479 Speaker 2: The person of interest that you refer to have they 422 00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,480 Speaker 2: got an interesting past or a dull past. 423 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,880 Speaker 1: I would say it's an interesting past. Yeah, I would 424 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 1: say it's a very interesting past. 425 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,919 Speaker 2: Interesting and relevant relevant to this sort of thing. 426 00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:54,640 Speaker 1: Relevant. Yeah, Relevant's a good word. 427 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,280 Speaker 2: Probably. We won't say much more about that as my thoughts, 428 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:03,200 Speaker 2: but that is interesting indeed. I mean in your experience 429 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:07,520 Speaker 2: of mind, we know that often these matters concerned people 430 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 2: well known to the victim, usually don't they That's it 431 00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:12,680 Speaker 2: probably eight out of ten. 432 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,880 Speaker 1: And what we do know, as I said before, is 433 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 1: that we know that her personality was the type of 434 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,199 Speaker 1: person she was a little bit shy. Even though she 435 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: was outgoing in one sense, she had a bit of 436 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:29,359 Speaker 1: shyness about her. It's been described to me as she 437 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: was someone that didn't like to go places on her 438 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: own and We do know of an instance where she 439 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 1: met to meet another man in Queensland and she took 440 00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: her girlfriends because she didn't know him. She hadn't met 441 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:43,600 Speaker 1: him before, so it would be out of line of 442 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: her personality. It wouldn't be characteristic of her to go 443 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 1: and meet someone she didn't know and that she didn't trust, 444 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:53,840 Speaker 1: So she wasn't a risk taker in that sense. 445 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:54,320 Speaker 2: Okay. 446 00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:58,359 Speaker 1: So that's why police and people closest to Rochelle are 447 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,320 Speaker 1: so convinced that whoever she went to meat she knew 448 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 1: and she trusted. 449 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:05,960 Speaker 2: Sketch a bit of a pen picture or perhaps a 450 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:09,800 Speaker 2: word picture of the Rochelle that you've come to know 451 00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,000 Speaker 2: in a secondhand way she come from. One of her parents. 452 00:25:14,040 --> 00:25:17,440 Speaker 2: Do tell us about her sister? What sort of girl 453 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:17,720 Speaker 2: was she? 454 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,920 Speaker 1: Yeah? Look, she's the sort of girl that I wish 455 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: I would have known because she sounds so lovable and likable, 456 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:31,719 Speaker 1: and she was cheeky, she was witty, she was she 457 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,639 Speaker 1: was really going and just always up for a good time. 458 00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,640 Speaker 1: She loved her animals. She was a big animal lover. 459 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: Has she had horses, she had dogs, she had a cat, 460 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,000 Speaker 1: and she was just that sort of person that everyone 461 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: has a memory of and really fond memories of her. 462 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: So her death had a huge impact and there was 463 00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 1: almost I think it was almost one thousand people turned 464 00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 1: out to her funeral. Beautiful family. And look, I've only 465 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: met her sister, her younger sister, Christie, and she's the 466 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:06,160 Speaker 1: real driver of this podcast and the person that prompted 467 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: this investigation really because she was the person I went 468 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,239 Speaker 1: to over twelve months ago and said, look, would you 469 00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: consider doing a podcast about your sister's unsolved murder? And 470 00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,320 Speaker 1: the timing was just right for her. So her sister's 471 00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:23,880 Speaker 1: an assistant principal and she's incredible. You know, she's so motivated, 472 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 1: she's so determined to get this case solved after so 473 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:30,879 Speaker 1: many years, and we'll just keep fighting and won't give up. 474 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,520 Speaker 1: And her mom's the same and she's beautiful too. They 475 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 1: lost their dad. Christie lost her dad a couple of 476 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,120 Speaker 1: years ago during COVID Sadly, he died of brain tumor, 477 00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,399 Speaker 1: which was really sad because he was the leader, the 478 00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,960 Speaker 1: advocate for the family. He was the one that dealt 479 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: with police. He had interactions with detectives down at Goldburn 480 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 1: when they were training to be officers, and he would 481 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,960 Speaker 1: give that insight into dealing with victims' families. He's a 482 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 1: really strong, stoic just a really likable guy as well 483 00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,720 Speaker 1: from the sounds of it. So it really fell into 484 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:11,119 Speaker 1: Christie's possession this baton that she's you know, has taken 485 00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 1: on to be the charge and the leader to try 486 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 1: and get this solved and to keep it out in 487 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 1: the public domain and to motivate police as well to 488 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: re examine her case. But not just relook at it. 489 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: We're talking about reinvestigating it, so just doing things that 490 00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: could lead to a breakthrough in the case. And they're 491 00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 1: just things like the reward. I mean, it's sitting at 492 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars and you know what house prices 493 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,680 Speaker 1: are in Melbourne and Sydney that you know that is well, 494 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,000 Speaker 1: it sounds like a lot of money. It's still not 495 00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,920 Speaker 1: a life changing amount of money if you're going to 496 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,119 Speaker 1: break a loyalty or go out on a limb and 497 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 1: speak out about someone who maybe you're very fearful of 498 00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: as well. But relationships change over the years, and that's 499 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: what we're hoping that maybe someone who knew something at 500 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 1: the time but was too scared to come forward or 501 00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:09,800 Speaker 1: didn't have the confidence. Maybe maybe an increase in the 502 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,680 Speaker 1: reward could bring them out, could. 503 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:17,160 Speaker 2: Loosen tongues over time. And is there anybody in particular 504 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,000 Speaker 2: that might have helped with an alibi? Is the reward 505 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 2: aimed at certain people? 506 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:24,239 Speaker 1: Do you think, well, we're hoping that an increase of 507 00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: the reward could reach anyone that has any intimate knowledge 508 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:33,600 Speaker 1: about someone's behavior. Either on the night that Rochelle was murdered, 509 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,040 Speaker 1: or the days that followed, or even the weeks and 510 00:28:38,080 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: the months that followed, there would have been a suspicion. 511 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: You would think that there may have been people that 512 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,720 Speaker 1: thought or heard things over time that maybe didn't add 513 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 1: up or they sounded a little bit strange. And yeah, 514 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: we're just asking for this reward to be increased. The 515 00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: family is pushing for it, and we certainly believe that 516 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: it's not money that you have to pay unless somebody 517 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: is convicted. Usually that's what a reward is only ever paid, 518 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: and it would be well worth it and money well 519 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 1: spent in my view. So we're just asking for that reward, 520 00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:15,760 Speaker 1: and we think it's important because you just don't know 521 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: what that money could motivate someone to do. To tell 522 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,280 Speaker 1: the truth to come forward and maybe just give a 523 00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,960 Speaker 1: little piece of information that could potentially solve this case. 524 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 2: Ashley, what attracted you to it or who attracted you 525 00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 2: to this? 526 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,240 Speaker 1: Well, I just remembered it as a young journalist. So 527 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,920 Speaker 1: I was working in Woollongong at the time, and I 528 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 1: think it must have been the time when her inquest 529 00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: was on in two thousand and eight or around that time, 530 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 1: and reading a story about it and just I remember 531 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: just feeling shocked and sad. And then I went on 532 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: and I did TV reporting for years, and I worked 533 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: at Channel seven for about ten years, and then when 534 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,120 Speaker 1: I left Channel seven, I went into and was doing 535 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,280 Speaker 1: a bit of freelance news reading. And I was just 536 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: in this sort of spot in my career where I 537 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,680 Speaker 1: wanted to do something new and different but still be 538 00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: a journalist, but just delve into one case. And so 539 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,320 Speaker 1: I thought I'd love to do a podcast. I was 540 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 1: inspired by Headley Thomas's work yep, as you know his success, 541 00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:23,200 Speaker 1: and I just really got into podcasting and I thought 542 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: I'd love to just yeah, have a look at one 543 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: case and see if I could do a podcast. So 544 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: I reached out to Christy because this is the first 545 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: case that came to mind was Rochelle's case, and I 546 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,400 Speaker 1: did a bit of googling, obviously that's how you start, 547 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: and one of the first articles that came up was 548 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 1: about Christie just a few years earlier saying I would 549 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:48,280 Speaker 1: look at doing a podcast and I'm wondering if Headley 550 00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:50,520 Speaker 1: Thomas might be interested in this case or whatnot. So 551 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,880 Speaker 1: I reached out to her and she was already talking 552 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 1: to Headley but he hadn't really started on her case 553 00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 1: because she didn't know at the time, and obviously Headly 554 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: didn't say it at the time, but he was very 555 00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 1: much invested in Bronwin's case, which is the podcast that's 556 00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 1: now out, so you can see the huge amount of 557 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:13,920 Speaker 1: work that went into that podcast. So yeah, so Christy 558 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,840 Speaker 1: thought about it and she's sort of agreed, No, now's 559 00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:19,000 Speaker 1: the time. I'm ready to do it now, because it's 560 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:22,600 Speaker 1: a huge investment emotionally and time wise as well to 561 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,680 Speaker 1: have a journalist go back and through the case like that, 562 00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,040 Speaker 1: you're opening wounds. But she's been so forthcoming and it's 563 00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,440 Speaker 1: just been an absolute joy to work with her. She's 564 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,000 Speaker 1: an incredible person and I would love for them to 565 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,440 Speaker 1: get the outcome that they so desperately want. 566 00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, where did those girls grow up with 567 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 2: their parents at Bargo. 568 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: No, they actually grew up at Glenfield. They grew up 569 00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:53,800 Speaker 1: in Glenfield in Sydney's southwest, I believe near Campbelltown area, Glenfield, 570 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 1: and they grew up out there. They were into dancing 571 00:31:56,840 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: and I think they had horses when they were growing 572 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: up as well. And what prompted Rochelle to move She 573 00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: was going out with the guy and they wanted more 574 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: space because she wanted to have the horses on her property. 575 00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:11,640 Speaker 1: And I think because of house prices and whatnot, she 576 00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:14,600 Speaker 1: rented at Bargo because she could get this, you know, 577 00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:17,760 Speaker 1: a couple of acres there. And she was living there 578 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,200 Speaker 1: with her boyfriend for a little while, I'm not sure 579 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: how long, and then they broke up and so that 580 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: that's what prompted Christy to move in. But Christie'd only 581 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: be living there for sort of a month or six 582 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: weeks so, and Christi is Rochelle's youngest sister, so she'd 583 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,719 Speaker 1: only been living there for about six weeks and then 584 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:38,240 Speaker 1: this tragedy happened. And yeah, the story sort of goes 585 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 1: from there. 586 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,520 Speaker 2: It goes from there. Actually, how can our listeners tune 587 00:32:42,560 --> 00:32:43,600 Speaker 2: in and listen to this. 588 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: Well, they can visit the website dear Rochelle dot com 589 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 1: dot au. So that's d e A r r A 590 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,200 Speaker 1: c h ewl e dot com dot au. 591 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 2: Perfect and that name is yes as you spelled it 592 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:02,600 Speaker 2: out at Rochelle r A not that's it. We will 593 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: put the URL in the description of the episode. Actually, 594 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,160 Speaker 2: wish you all the best and we look forward to 595 00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:13,760 Speaker 2: tuning into your most excellent work. It's a fascinating case 596 00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 2: and if there's any justice or luck in the world, 597 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:23,920 Speaker 2: something that you do will loosen someone's tongue and get 598 00:33:24,080 --> 00:33:24,720 Speaker 2: a result. 599 00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:29,040 Speaker 1: Thanks Andrew, that would be an absolute dream. 600 00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:32,240 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. Life and Crimes is a Sunday Herald 601 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:37,240 Speaker 2: Sun production for True crime Australia. Our producer is Johnty Burton. 602 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: For my columns, features and more, go to Heroldsun dot 603 00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:47,520 Speaker 2: com dot au forward slash Andrew rule one word. For 604 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: advertising inquiries, go to news Podcasts sold at news dot 605 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 2: com dot au. That is all one word news podcasts 606 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,440 Speaker 2: sold And if you further information about this episode, links 607 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 2: are in the description