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Speaker 1: Appoche production.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Secrets of the Underworld. I am Neil the

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Speaker 2: Muscle Commons, and in this episode I speak with Penny Clifford,

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Speaker 2: a pioneering trans show girl who became a Queen of

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Speaker 2: Oxford Street.

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Speaker 3: I was born in nineteen sixty one and then seeing

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Speaker 3: my first drag show with trans women and I was like,

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Speaker 3: it was like a light bulb went off for me,

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Speaker 3: and I was.

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Speaker 1: Like, that's who I am.

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Speaker 3: There are very few men that are happy to say

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Speaker 3: I like a trans woman, and I didn't want to

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Speaker 3: be someone's secret lasking the cross.

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Speaker 4: You've got a character that plays you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, apparently can did anyone else.

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Speaker 3: With a dramatic well, no, there's no other six foot

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Speaker 3: two dance. I remember at one point she was like,

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Speaker 3: I need climb that ladder and pour hot wax on

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Speaker 3: that lesbian snipples And I was like, okay. It was

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Speaker 3: written up in the Daily Telegraph or something. My mum

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Speaker 3: read it and she was like, what is that. You

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Speaker 3: know Penny was seen at the Madonna thing and I

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Speaker 3: was like, Lord have mercy.

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Speaker 4: Penny, thank you for coming on. I appreciate this. I've

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Speaker 4: been trying to get you on here. Probably over a

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Speaker 4: year now.

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Speaker 1: I know, I know I shy away from it, but

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm here.

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Speaker 4: I'm grateful for your coming in.

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to see your face.

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Speaker 4: Thank you. It's been a long time, sure.

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Speaker 1: Has way too many decades.

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Speaker 4: All right, let's get this on the way.

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Speaker 2: So before we get into all our exciting, dizzy grizzy stuff,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about you growing up, and let's get to

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Speaker 2: know you first as a person.

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Speaker 3: Okay, I grew up out at Auburn. I was a

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Speaker 3: Western suburbs kid. I grew up there. I had a

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Speaker 3: relatively normal childhood and went to school and went to

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Speaker 3: high school and just yeah, fluffed around for a little while.

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Speaker 3: And it was around that time that I started to question,

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Speaker 3: you know, and we're talking, you know, was early seventies,

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Speaker 3: early seventies. By then I started questioning my gender and

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Speaker 3: who I was and all of that kind of thing.

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Speaker 3: And I think around about, you know, because it wasn't,

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Speaker 3: you know, transness was I really wasn't a thing like

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Speaker 3: it is now, you know, And to it was.

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Speaker 4: More of the radar back then when they told quite much.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I mean I was born in nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty one, so you know, to learn about transits was

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Speaker 3: an accident in the library you know where I grew up,

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Speaker 3: so you know, it was a really I remember being

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Speaker 3: very confused for a while, and I never felt right

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Speaker 3: in my body. And then I think around about fourteen

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Speaker 3: or fifteen, I remember learning some more information about it

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Speaker 3: and understanding it and then realizing obviously that's what I was.

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Speaker 3: But I don't even remember the word transnist coming around,

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Speaker 3: but I remember reading. I remember reading books like Conundrum

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Speaker 3: by Jen Morris or Second Serve by Renee Richards, the

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Speaker 3: very famous tennis player back in those days that had

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Speaker 3: a sex change, and so that made a lot of

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Speaker 3: sense to me. So I started going out as early

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Speaker 3: as I could, you know, fifteen or sixteen, catching the

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Speaker 3: train in and going around Oxford Street, and you know,

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Speaker 3: it was much easy to get into clubs, and because

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Speaker 3: I was taller, it was easy for me to get

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Speaker 3: in and figuring out from there. And then seeing my

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Speaker 3: first drag show with trans women and I was like,

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Speaker 3: it was like a light bulb went off for me,

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Speaker 3: and I was like, that's who I am.

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Speaker 4: You know, what about your parents, they like.

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Speaker 3: They didn't really understand it, and it was hard for

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Speaker 3: them at the start, but they obviously knew. I mean, look,

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Speaker 3: you know, when I was young, I went to the

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Speaker 3: Debi Graham Dance School in Grand Ball, you know, so

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Speaker 3: they obviously knew there was a very feminine side to me.

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Speaker 3: And I would often I remember pulling the curtains off

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Speaker 3: the curtain rod and wrapping them around and dancing around

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Speaker 3: the house for mom and dad, and you know, so

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Speaker 3: they probably were eye rolling. And my two eldest brothers

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Speaker 3: would always turn my previous name into some kind of

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Speaker 3: feminine name, and you know, like I grew up like that,

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Speaker 3: so it was kind of like everyone just put up

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Speaker 3: with my silliness and.

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Speaker 4: How a schooler for that feature.

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Speaker 3: You know, school was something I got through, but I

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Speaker 3: never it wasn't something where I don't ever remember being

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Speaker 3: abused or bashed or.

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Speaker 4: Picked on to more female friends than male.

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Speaker 1: I went to an old boys high school.

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Speaker 4: Oh fuck, really that was fun?

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Speaker 3: And do you know there was another star of lay

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Speaker 3: girls that went to the same high school as me.

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Speaker 3: I don't know what was in the world or at

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Speaker 3: beer On Boys High School.

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Speaker 4: Wow?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So how early did you know, like

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Speaker 2: besides fourteen and all like that, But did you.

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Speaker 1: Know there was something. See, the problem was, it wasn't it.

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Speaker 3: Nowadays people can read about transness at eight or nine

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Speaker 3: and understand it. There wasn't anything, So it took me

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Speaker 3: a little bit longer to figure it out. But by

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Speaker 3: twelve or thirteen, I think everyone just presumed I was

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Speaker 3: effeminate and gay, and you know, it just took me

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Speaker 3: a little bit longer to figure out my journey. But

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Speaker 3: by seventeen, I kind of sixteen and seventeen, and I

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Speaker 3: really knew that I wanted to be what you want

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Speaker 3: to do well, that I felt that I was trans

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Speaker 3: and that this is what I needed to do. It

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Speaker 3: took me a year or two, and I had to

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Speaker 3: move out of home, and you know, like to settle

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Speaker 3: myself because I mean we're talking seventy something, you know,

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Speaker 3: seventy five, seventy six, and you know, Mum and Dad

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Speaker 3: were okay but not great and didn't really understand it.

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Speaker 3: And I felt like I needed to figure myself out

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Speaker 3: and then present them with a package of where I

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Speaker 3: looked more presentable. And so during that what you would

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Speaker 3: call an androgynous period, I suppose, you know, I rang

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Speaker 3: I would call them but not see them too often.

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Speaker 1: And then once I.

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Speaker 3: Started to look a little bit more presentable, then I

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Speaker 3: started to get to go home and.

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Speaker 4: See who did you go and see for this change?

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Speaker 1: Well, you do, just go to the doctors and NAT,

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Speaker 1: you went nervous.

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Speaker 2: You went nervous rather course, yeah, because as you said,

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Speaker 2: back in the seventies and eighties, early eighties, it was

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Speaker 2: like wow, you know, bring that out to what you

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Speaker 2: wanted to do.

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Speaker 4: Like now you could just do it every Yeah, there's.

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Speaker 3: There's so much information out there for young trans kids.

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Speaker 3: But it wasn't until I went to a club called

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Speaker 3: Capricios on Oxford Street, which is where Stonewall Hotel is now,

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Speaker 3: and upstairs they had a show and it was called

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Speaker 3: International Vanities, and it was just all trans women, beautiful

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Speaker 3: trans women, and I met all of them and they explained,

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Speaker 3: go on hormones, go and see this doctor.

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Speaker 1: They took me under their wing.

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Speaker 3: I went to the doctor, I got on hormones, and

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Speaker 3: I started my transwoman journey.

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Speaker 1: And that's how it happened for me.

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Speaker 3: You know, I knew, but I just needed that catalyst

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Speaker 3: of meeting a group of beautiful trans women. And some

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Speaker 3: of those are still my friends today, Those women that

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Speaker 3: I met are still friends. I don't get to see

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Speaker 3: them that often. They're a bit older than me, but

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Speaker 3: you know, they're around and I still look at them

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Speaker 3: all as superstars. And that show was very legendary on

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Speaker 3: Oxford Street.

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Speaker 2: So so when you got to the age, I think

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Speaker 2: it was because I looked up as well. It was

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Speaker 2: the seventeen you actually you decided that's when you were

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Speaker 2: going to kind of get into the showgirls.

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Speaker 4: Yes.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I started experimenting and talent shows and tragedy, and

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Speaker 3: you know, I look back at some of the things

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Speaker 3: I did then, and I remember going There was a

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Speaker 3: club on Oxford Street, I don't know, it would be

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Speaker 3: Flow's Palace, and they had a drag contest and I

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Speaker 3: went into that and won. From there, I went down

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Speaker 3: to Patches, Yes, and Tricksy Lamont, the star of Patches,

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Speaker 3: gave me a job helping backstage and I would get

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Speaker 3: to do a song in the show. And I think

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Speaker 3: that would have been maybe nineteen eighty. I got into

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Speaker 3: Patches from doing.

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Speaker 4: That's what I read up. It was nineteen eighty got

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Speaker 4: in there.

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Speaker 3: But I also was working out at There was a

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Speaker 3: pub at Balmain, a really early gay pub called the

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Speaker 3: Balmain town Hall, owned by two friends who I loved,

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Speaker 3: Dealian called Mom and Dad, David and Brian, and so

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Speaker 3: a lot of us were working out there three or

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Speaker 3: four nights a week. And there's a little pub in

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Speaker 3: Balmain that just was so popular. And so there was

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Speaker 3: Balmain and there was Patches for me and down O'Donnell,

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Speaker 3: you know, the very famous lesbian mafia lady, and that

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Speaker 3: was you know, King of Oxford Street as we like

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Speaker 3: to call with, you know, Rogia Claude. And I got

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Speaker 3: into Patches and got into the show and was helping

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Speaker 3: backstage and doing my song and learning my craft and

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Speaker 3: being told, you know, how.

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Speaker 1: To be a show girl.

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Speaker 3: And I learned from all the kids in the show

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Speaker 3: with Trixie and three D and Cindy Pastel and Sarah

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Speaker 3: Pax and Maggie Burns and Paul and Egrey and all

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Speaker 3: of those, and slowly, months and months and months, it just.

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Speaker 1: Kind of seven years. Yeah, sorry, you were there a

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Speaker 1: very long time.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And I didn't leave Patches until nineteen eighty five,

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Speaker 3: so I stayed there for a very long time. And

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Speaker 3: it was a real I got into the main show

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Speaker 3: cast from that and became and you know, you were

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Speaker 3: if you were in the main show cast at Patches,

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Speaker 3: you were sort of like Hollywood, you know, like you

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Speaker 3: were the you know, so it from me back on

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Speaker 3: Oxford strength. Then that became really Hollywood for me, and

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Speaker 3: I felt like I achieved something.

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Speaker 4: Did your parents ever come and see you do a show?

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Speaker 3: Not until not then? No, not to a gay club.

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Speaker 3: They were a bit because nowadays it would be yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's okay. But it wasn't till I joined Simona Monique's

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Speaker 3: Playgirls and Carlotta's show when I left Patches and became

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Speaker 3: more of a tits and feather kind of showgirl touring

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Speaker 3: RSL clubs that mum and dad kind of felt like, okay,

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Speaker 3: let's take the bingo friends and come and see the show,

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Speaker 3: because to them that was more mainstream or something that

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Speaker 3: they could a substance they could be proud of, rather

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Speaker 3: than a little gay club in Oxford.

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Speaker 2: So when was the first time they actually seen you

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Speaker 2: being transformed down into a woman?

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Speaker 3: Oh look, I went home eighty two eighty three. You know,

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Speaker 3: there was a gap, but they'd seen photos and stuff

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Speaker 3: and they were great. I've got photos from that first

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Speaker 3: time I went back home and you know, everything was fine,

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Speaker 3: and we just settled into our routine and then I

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Speaker 3: I think they came to see I think Mum came about.

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Speaker 3: We were at South Sydney Juniors and Mum came to that,

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Speaker 3: and I think it was nineteen eighty five or eighty six,

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Speaker 3: So there was a little gap, but I think it

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Speaker 3: was a good gap because it just came around and

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Speaker 3: you know, I was a bit more polished and pretty

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Speaker 3: and I had, you know, a little bit of surgery

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Speaker 3: by then, and so they could appreciate it.

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Speaker 4: Ever been married, No, never, never a long relationship.

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Speaker 1: I there, Yeah, there.

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Speaker 3: Were there were two along the way, but I don't know,

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Speaker 3: you know, there was one very special one and he

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Speaker 3: would always, you know, wherever we went, people would always

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Speaker 3: come over to say hello. And he was Italian and

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Speaker 3: get really upset and he said, I feel like I'm

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Speaker 3: mister Clifford and I you know, we'd go home and

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Speaker 3: there'd be a huge fight about it. I'm like, well,

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Speaker 3: I can't stop people coming up to say hello, because

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Speaker 3: if they see me sitting somewhere on Oxford Street, they

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Speaker 3: want to say high penny, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: And it caused a lot of issues and along the

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Speaker 3: way there's been one or two and some of them

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Speaker 3: are still great friends. But no, I've never really I

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Speaker 3: think I've had more successful relationships with dogs and coffee

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Speaker 3: and you know, apple pies and custards or something.

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Speaker 1: I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Was it difficult you at the start? Was it difficult

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Speaker 2: for you at the start when you transform yourself into

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Speaker 2: a woman?

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Speaker 3: Look, you know, over the years, I had some great

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Speaker 3: fun times, you know what I would call office romances,

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Speaker 3: especially in the DCM office. There was some wonderful office

248
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Speaker 3: romances with you know, many of the man Power boys,

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Speaker 3: and you know that was always fueled by them coming

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Speaker 3: into d CM, and you know, fueled by all kinds

251
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Speaker 3: of things, and you know, suddenly I'm having a romance

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Speaker 3: with one of them. And so I won't say I

253
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Speaker 3: didn't have a lot of fun. Yeah, yeah, But I

254
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Speaker 3: think one of the things about being a trans woman,

255
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Speaker 3: and I think it might be less now, but there

256
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Speaker 3: are very few men that are happy to say I

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Speaker 3: like a trans woman publicly, you know what I mean, Like,

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Speaker 3: that's what I found and I didn't want to be

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Speaker 3: someone's secret, you know, And there's a lot of men

260
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Speaker 3: that would want us that find it appealing, but don't

261
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Speaker 3: ever want to come out and say to their friends

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Speaker 3: or their family, you know, this is my girlfriend and

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Speaker 3: I love her. And the few relationships I did have,

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Speaker 3: that's how they treated me.

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Speaker 1: And that's what I love the most.

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Speaker 3: That they introduced me to their family and they introduced

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Speaker 3: me to you know, their friends, and it was a

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Speaker 3: public thing, and I didn't want to be a secret

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Speaker 3: or a fetish.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's why I've just you know.

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Speaker 4: From your alone or yourself phone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, the many, many things I've done

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Speaker 3: of touring with shows and going overseas and running what

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Speaker 3: I think is three of the better nightclubs on Oxford Street,

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Speaker 3: like ann Erskineville, you know, like DCM for ten years

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Speaker 3: and the Imperial Hotel at Erskineville which was the home

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Speaker 3: of Priscilla and then the midnight Shift. I've been very

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Speaker 3: lucky in a career as well as being a successful

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Speaker 3: show girl, that sometimes you can't just have everything. And

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Speaker 3: I've always looked at it like I've had a great life.

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Speaker 3: And now I live in Byron Bay and I'm super

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Speaker 3: happy up there, and I think, well, maybe that's the

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Speaker 3: one thing that's eluded me is just having a partner,

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Speaker 3: and it's never really you know. I think when I

285
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Speaker 3: was younger, maybe it bothered me, but now I'm like, nah,

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Speaker 3: I think i'd go the other way.

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Speaker 4: Let's talk about because you just brought it up and

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Speaker 4: you've got the hats.

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Speaker 2: On too, Let's talk Yeah, DCM's okay, So what made

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Speaker 2: you go to DCMS.

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Speaker 3: Well, Patches that I did the shows that and got

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Speaker 3: into from working backstage and developing my craft is thirty

293
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Speaker 3: three Oxford Street and DCM is thirty three Oxford Street.

294
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Speaker 3: So I was already working at Patches for doorn O'Donnell

295
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Speaker 3: and working out at the Bow Main Pub and working

296
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Speaker 3: down at the Unicorn Pub as a show girl. So

297
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Speaker 3: Tim Berry and Brook Beeves came in and they bought

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Speaker 3: I remember them. They ran the Unicorn Hotels, so I

299
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Speaker 3: was working for them there, and then they took over

300
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Speaker 3: the Bow Main Pub and I was working for them there,

301
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Speaker 3: and then they came in and they were like, maybe

302
00:14:05,121 --> 00:14:08,681
Speaker 3: you know the gay John Abrahams who knows and very

303
00:14:08,721 --> 00:14:11,081
Speaker 3: sweet men and really loved me, and we got along

304
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Speaker 3: very well, and they bought Patches off Dawn and so

305
00:14:15,641 --> 00:14:19,241
Speaker 3: for I think that was nineteen ninety, but DCM didn't

306
00:14:19,241 --> 00:14:22,521
Speaker 3: officially open till July nineteen ninety one. But in that

307
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Speaker 3: period there was, like I suppose, a transition, just like

308
00:14:25,881 --> 00:14:29,841
Speaker 3: being transgender, of you know, moving because Patches had a

309
00:14:29,921 --> 00:14:33,281
Speaker 3: lighter dance floor like Saturday Night Fever on the other

310
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Speaker 3: side of the room, and then they moved that into

311
00:14:35,441 --> 00:14:38,601
Speaker 3: the middle where DCM was, and they moved bars around,

312
00:14:38,681 --> 00:14:42,041
Speaker 3: and they changed a lot of things. And that period

313
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Speaker 3: from nineteen ninety when they brought it to nineteen ninety

314
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Speaker 3: one was a slow process, yeah, of transforming the club

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Speaker 3: and then coming up with the name. And then suddenly,

316
00:14:51,921 --> 00:14:54,801
Speaker 3: you know, Tim had gone to a New Zealand. So

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Speaker 3: during that time I'd started, I think i'd started in

318
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Speaker 3: the changeover two days a week in the office, and

319
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Speaker 3: I remember there was no computers back then. Even the

320
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Speaker 3: deliveries were handed.

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Speaker 4: In a book, you know, like the unvogular.

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Speaker 1: Like hand written in this book.

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Speaker 3: Everything was so old fashioned and there was no such

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Speaker 3: thing as the worldwide where I don't think it was

325
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Speaker 3: super interesting. And so Tim went to New Zealand and

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Speaker 3: there was a club in New Zealand called DTMs Don't

327
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Speaker 3: Tell Mama, and it was Don't tell Mama that I'm gay.

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Speaker 4: Oh okay.

329
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Speaker 3: So he came back from New Zealand with that and

330
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Speaker 3: was toying around with it. And there were two drag

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Speaker 3: queens at the time, and they fought over who came

332
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Speaker 3: up with the real idea. There was when s Mungle

333
00:15:40,761 --> 00:15:44,241
Speaker 3: Bitch and Talula Bright and when Essa's still around and

334
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Speaker 3: Ta Lula's passed away sadly, but she was our door

335
00:15:47,001 --> 00:15:49,561
Speaker 3: bitch at DC for a very long time. And they

336
00:15:49,641 --> 00:15:53,201
Speaker 3: came up toying with Tim over a champagne or something

337
00:15:53,761 --> 00:15:56,961
Speaker 3: to try and have that same kind of initial thing going.

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Speaker 3: And DCM came up and that was don't cry Mama

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Speaker 3: rather than don't tell Mama.

340
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Speaker 1: And you know, I mean I've.

341
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Speaker 3: Seen in the DCM there is like three DCM online groups.

342
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Speaker 3: One I run and then one that Georgie J runs,

343
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Speaker 3: and there's a whole pile of things of arguments. It's

344
00:16:14,401 --> 00:16:18,201
Speaker 3: called don't come Monday, you know, which as it went

345
00:16:18,241 --> 00:16:20,361
Speaker 3: from a gay club because over the ten years I

346
00:16:20,481 --> 00:16:22,681
Speaker 3: was at d CM, it was very gay at the start,

347
00:16:22,721 --> 00:16:24,921
Speaker 3: and around ninety four to ninety five, of course everyone

348
00:16:24,961 --> 00:16:27,881
Speaker 3: came in because it became the hottest night club and

349
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Speaker 3: so that's when I think, don't come Monday. Had that happened,

350
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Speaker 3: But until then it was DCM and it stood for

351
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Speaker 3: don't crime Mama, I don't cry, mamma.

352
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Speaker 1: I'm gay and I'm having a great time at a club.

353
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Speaker 4: Wow.

354
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Speaker 1: And it officially opened in nineteen ninety one.

355
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Speaker 2: Was the setup was exactly like DCMS like we like,

356
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Speaker 2: we like as it is now.

357
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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, Originally the setup was like because.

358
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Speaker 3: The lighter dance floor where the rear bar was in

359
00:16:53,001 --> 00:16:55,641
Speaker 3: the main dance room. That's where the lighter dance floor

360
00:16:55,721 --> 00:16:58,801
Speaker 3: was at Patricks and I'm talking like full on Saturday

361
00:16:58,881 --> 00:17:04,600
Speaker 3: night fever. Glass lighter dance floor raised different colors, big

362
00:17:04,681 --> 00:17:07,721
Speaker 3: huge speaker's fog machine that would spew oil over the

363
00:17:07,761 --> 00:17:10,440
Speaker 3: glass dance floor. So sometimes you'd see people dancing and

364
00:17:10,481 --> 00:17:12,600
Speaker 3: slipping over in the oil of the fog or a

365
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:16,080
Speaker 3: show girl falling over. I saw lots of that. And

366
00:17:16,120 --> 00:17:18,640
Speaker 3: then there were just rows of like RSL club tables

367
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,080
Speaker 3: and chairs that would sit because at Patches there was

368
00:17:21,281 --> 00:17:23,680
Speaker 3: a show cast every night was you know, a huge

369
00:17:23,681 --> 00:17:26,521
Speaker 3: show that was put on, and then little bars everywhere.

370
00:17:26,840 --> 00:17:30,241
Speaker 3: They really moved that around the front bar stayed pretty

371
00:17:30,321 --> 00:17:32,840
Speaker 3: much the same and the entrance stayed pretty much the same.

372
00:17:32,921 --> 00:17:35,241
Speaker 3: I mean they sure they slept a coat of paint

373
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Speaker 3: on it and put on some funny, you know, bead ceilings,

374
00:17:39,481 --> 00:17:42,400
Speaker 3: but the front bar and the entrance pretty much dates.

375
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,521
Speaker 4: What do you think made that club so so good?

376
00:17:45,561 --> 00:17:45,880
Speaker 1: Do you know?

377
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:50,360
Speaker 3: Especially it was the first super club on Oxford Street.

378
00:17:50,681 --> 00:17:53,880
Speaker 3: There wasn't another superclub. There was the midnight shift, but

379
00:17:54,001 --> 00:17:56,561
Speaker 3: at that time, early on the midnight shift wouldn't allow

380
00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:59,681
Speaker 3: women in. The first woman that was ever allowed into

381
00:17:59,681 --> 00:18:02,640
Speaker 3: the midnight shift was Marsha Heines. And I remember reading

382
00:18:02,681 --> 00:18:05,041
Speaker 3: about it in the paper because it was a men's

383
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,120
Speaker 3: gay club and it was very underground and Flow's Palace

384
00:18:09,281 --> 00:18:12,081
Speaker 3: was like more of an Asian bar then, and there

385
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 3: wasn't there wasn't any arc and there wasn't there was

386
00:18:15,120 --> 00:18:17,880
Speaker 3: very few clubs. People would go to Capri Sios to

387
00:18:17,921 --> 00:18:21,041
Speaker 3: see a show, which was where Stonewall is, and then

388
00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:23,400
Speaker 3: they would you know, I remember most people would go

389
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:25,640
Speaker 3: to Caprice shows and then you know, if you're Asian

390
00:18:25,721 --> 00:18:28,120
Speaker 3: or Asian lover, you'd stop at Flow's Palace on the

391
00:18:28,120 --> 00:18:30,400
Speaker 3: way down because don't forget, it was unsafe to walk

392
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:33,120
Speaker 3: streets then, and it was kind of illegal to still be,

393
00:18:34,001 --> 00:18:36,961
Speaker 3: you know, nearly wearing women's clothing a little bit, and

394
00:18:37,001 --> 00:18:40,281
Speaker 3: so it was all very underground still and then everyone

395
00:18:40,281 --> 00:18:42,600
Speaker 3: would end up at Patches, all go up to lay

396
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,760
Speaker 3: Girls to see Carlotta in La Cross. So that was

397
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,720
Speaker 3: you know, people went there. And so DCM became the

398
00:18:48,721 --> 00:18:52,240
Speaker 3: first super club. And even though we aimed at the

399
00:18:52,281 --> 00:18:55,801
Speaker 3: gay people, you know, once people hear about a club,

400
00:18:55,921 --> 00:18:58,760
Speaker 3: slowly it started. Other people would come in, but they

401
00:18:58,801 --> 00:19:01,680
Speaker 3: were allies what we now use the word allies, you know,

402
00:19:01,761 --> 00:19:04,521
Speaker 3: the straight people that love gay people. And you know,

403
00:19:04,721 --> 00:19:06,720
Speaker 3: there was any of the Tongue and SAMs in the

404
00:19:06,761 --> 00:19:09,640
Speaker 3: early days coming in and we needed, you know, we

405
00:19:09,681 --> 00:19:12,281
Speaker 3: needed to install metal detectors to keep you know, that

406
00:19:12,441 --> 00:19:15,481
Speaker 3: was ninety six ninety seven that the metal detectors came

407
00:19:15,561 --> 00:19:18,801
Speaker 3: in and I'd sit on Tongue and Sam's lap having

408
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:21,641
Speaker 3: a chat to him, not really realizing the background of that,

409
00:19:21,801 --> 00:19:25,161
Speaker 3: you know. And so early days it was very gay

410
00:19:25,321 --> 00:19:28,600
Speaker 3: the first few years, and then mixed, and I think

411
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,960
Speaker 3: that mixture people felt safe and happy, and so then

412
00:19:32,961 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 3: they would tell their straight prints. You got to come

413
00:19:34,521 --> 00:19:37,120
Speaker 3: and see these drag shows, and the gays are fabulous

414
00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:39,881
Speaker 3: and just slowly over time, it just changed in the.

415
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 2: I remember when I was rooming the door at d

416
00:19:42,281 --> 00:19:47,400
Speaker 2: CMS and I knew the gay community was so anti DCMS.

417
00:19:46,721 --> 00:19:48,081
Speaker 4: When I was there, you know what I mean.

418
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:51,440
Speaker 3: I remember because it had changed from very much. Because

419
00:19:52,001 --> 00:19:54,761
Speaker 3: I've got to say when John bought it from Tim

420
00:19:54,801 --> 00:19:58,441
Speaker 3: and Brook in two thousand, I went back a couple

421
00:19:58,481 --> 00:20:01,561
Speaker 3: of times and ran a couple of DCMI parties. Margaret

422
00:20:01,561 --> 00:20:04,201
Speaker 3: and David Freeman would call me up and say could

423
00:20:04,241 --> 00:20:06,640
Speaker 3: you come back? And do you know, I think we

424
00:20:06,681 --> 00:20:09,200
Speaker 3: did the eighteenth year of it, and there was another

425
00:20:09,241 --> 00:20:11,681
Speaker 3: one that I did and put on, But by then

426
00:20:11,761 --> 00:20:14,361
Speaker 3: it had changed, you know, it had really become there

427
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 3: was no gaze going and it became a bit rough.

428
00:20:17,721 --> 00:20:21,360
Speaker 3: And I think that started not because of John. It

429
00:20:21,481 --> 00:20:24,761
Speaker 3: started happening, like I said, at ninety seven when we

430
00:20:24,801 --> 00:20:26,080
Speaker 3: had to put in metal detectors.

431
00:20:26,481 --> 00:20:27,721
Speaker 1: You know, there was the girl that.

432
00:20:27,721 --> 00:20:30,160
Speaker 3: Got shot famous got shot in the boo at the

433
00:20:30,201 --> 00:20:33,321
Speaker 3: bar when we're all standing there because two security men,

434
00:20:33,400 --> 00:20:34,960
Speaker 3: one of them had a gun and they were just

435
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,321
Speaker 3: mucking around at the bar and the gun went off

436
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:41,761
Speaker 3: and she's standing there with brand new perky surgical tits

437
00:20:42,321 --> 00:20:45,121
Speaker 3: and the gun went straight through there and into the wall,

438
00:20:45,481 --> 00:20:47,240
Speaker 3: and it was a cop killer bullet, you know, one

439
00:20:47,281 --> 00:20:51,241
Speaker 3: of those bullets that's straight through and ground through the wall.

440
00:20:51,321 --> 00:20:54,281
Speaker 3: And later on when the police came, they said, that's

441
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,801
Speaker 3: lucky that bullet didn't even keep straight through that wall

442
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,801
Speaker 3: and across the dance floor. So, you know, there were

443
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,801
Speaker 3: all those kind of things that slowly changed. I remember

444
00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,041
Speaker 3: when that because that was a TV the girl got

445
00:21:06,041 --> 00:21:07,041
Speaker 3: shot in the bullet at DC.

446
00:21:07,201 --> 00:21:09,001
Speaker 1: My mum rang me and was like, dada that.

447
00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:12,161
Speaker 3: And you know that was the last you know, because

448
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:14,920
Speaker 3: I was already leaning towards Okay, I've been here a

449
00:21:14,921 --> 00:21:17,321
Speaker 3: long time, but you know I stayed till you know,

450
00:21:17,441 --> 00:21:19,960
Speaker 3: six months before it got sold. But yeah, there was

451
00:21:20,201 --> 00:21:21,801
Speaker 3: a lot of things that made it change over.

452
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:24,281
Speaker 2: But did that bring problems to the street because X

453
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:26,240
Speaker 2: Street's always been known as the game lesbian.

454
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:28,561
Speaker 3: Yeah, it did, And so that's when the hate for

455
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,161
Speaker 3: d CN came in. Things like the girl got shot

456
00:21:32,201 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 3: at the bar, and you know, we put in metal

457
00:21:34,481 --> 00:21:37,561
Speaker 3: detectors and so we would notice because gay nights were

458
00:21:37,801 --> 00:21:40,521
Speaker 3: Thursday night was what we'd call the blue Card night,

459
00:21:40,961 --> 00:21:44,721
Speaker 3: and Saturday was sweat night. And Sunday was the tea

460
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:46,801
Speaker 3: dance where it would start early and you would come

461
00:21:46,801 --> 00:21:48,600
Speaker 3: in for the tea dance and see the drag show

462
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:51,400
Speaker 3: and all those nights, some of the more gay nights.

463
00:21:51,561 --> 00:21:54,960
Speaker 3: As DC progressed through ninety seven and ninety eight, seemed

464
00:21:55,001 --> 00:21:58,480
Speaker 3: to wean off a little bit, and you know, we

465
00:21:58,561 --> 00:22:00,761
Speaker 3: dropped some of the shows because we could see that

466
00:22:00,801 --> 00:22:01,761
Speaker 3: the crowd was changed.

467
00:22:01,961 --> 00:22:04,600
Speaker 2: Was that when like when John came in and his

468
00:22:04,681 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 2: promotion just kind of wind you out and pushed you

469
00:22:07,241 --> 00:22:08,961
Speaker 2: out a bit because they were a straight club.

470
00:22:08,961 --> 00:22:11,481
Speaker 3: When he bought it. Yeah, it definitely, but by then

471
00:22:11,561 --> 00:22:15,440
Speaker 3: I'd left. None of the management stuff stayed with John. Okay,

472
00:22:15,561 --> 00:22:18,001
Speaker 3: we all left. Sue went up to the shift him

473
00:22:18,160 --> 00:22:21,361
Speaker 3: bought the midnight shift by then, and I went back

474
00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,881
Speaker 3: to being a show girl for a while in Carlotta

475
00:22:23,961 --> 00:22:26,801
Speaker 3: Show and just flopping about trying to figure out who

476
00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,160
Speaker 3: I was because after ten years running DCM and and

477
00:22:30,521 --> 00:22:32,521
Speaker 3: the ego that came with that, because it was the

478
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,041
Speaker 3: number one night club, you believe your own publicity. It

479
00:22:35,041 --> 00:22:37,160
Speaker 3: took me a couple of years of just going, wow,

480
00:22:37,561 --> 00:22:40,160
Speaker 3: I'm not so special anymore. I don't I don't have

481
00:22:40,281 --> 00:22:43,041
Speaker 3: thirty people calling me every hour on the hour to

482
00:22:43,041 --> 00:22:46,001
Speaker 3: get into the number one club in Sydney. So yeah,

483
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,720
Speaker 3: I wallowed a little bit after DCM, but you know,

484
00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:49,721
Speaker 3: found my way back.

485
00:22:49,801 --> 00:22:51,001
Speaker 4: And what about.

486
00:22:50,761 --> 00:22:52,361
Speaker 2: When you when you run it was it was it

487
00:22:52,441 --> 00:22:55,440
Speaker 2: still corrupt like on the doors like as it got

488
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:56,161
Speaker 2: was it very well?

489
00:22:56,201 --> 00:22:58,080
Speaker 1: Do you mean by well?

490
00:22:58,120 --> 00:23:00,441
Speaker 2: You know when you've got you had the times when

491
00:23:00,441 --> 00:23:02,481
Speaker 2: you have in the cross and you had the corruption

492
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 2: of the police and all like that, comments to the

493
00:23:04,481 --> 00:23:06,321
Speaker 2: doors to make sure who's in there or to run

494
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:07,080
Speaker 2: the doors.

495
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 3: Or that didn't start didn't start later on, so early

496
00:23:10,321 --> 00:23:12,961
Speaker 3: on we were left alone. Like honestly, you could get

497
00:23:13,001 --> 00:23:16,521
Speaker 3: away with so much at DCM, like I remember, just

498
00:23:17,001 --> 00:23:20,160
Speaker 3: people were just it was like Studio fifty four. You know,

499
00:23:20,241 --> 00:23:23,041
Speaker 3: our birthday parties were legendary and you know you just

500
00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 3: turn away if someone was racking up on a table

501
00:23:25,561 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 3: and let them go because that's what we.

502
00:23:28,321 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 2: Do you think that was do you think that was?

503
00:23:30,001 --> 00:23:32,401
Speaker 2: It was left alone because back then when you had it.

504
00:23:32,201 --> 00:23:34,240
Speaker 3: Because it was more gay, yes, correct, and there were

505
00:23:34,241 --> 00:23:36,720
Speaker 3: none of the RSA laws and what they were, but

506
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,120
Speaker 3: you know, no one paid attention to them, and you

507
00:23:39,120 --> 00:23:41,321
Speaker 3: know there was no one being bashed around Oxford Street

508
00:23:41,360 --> 00:23:44,360
Speaker 3: early on, unless it was a gay bashing, and that

509
00:23:44,921 --> 00:23:47,921
Speaker 3: then we were a safety club. As we went through

510
00:23:47,961 --> 00:23:51,761
Speaker 3: the years again around ninety seven and you know, metal

511
00:23:51,801 --> 00:23:54,561
Speaker 3: detectors come in and the gays were leaving us a

512
00:23:54,561 --> 00:23:56,801
Speaker 3: little bit and moving to you know, I think ARC

513
00:23:56,921 --> 00:23:59,681
Speaker 3: opened up around this time. I'm not sure what year

514
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:03,561
Speaker 3: ARC opened, but I remember going to the opening and thinking, Okay,

515
00:24:03,561 --> 00:24:05,961
Speaker 3: this is really going to affect our up. And it

516
00:24:06,041 --> 00:24:08,321
Speaker 3: did a little bit. We lost a lot of gays.

517
00:24:08,041 --> 00:24:10,721
Speaker 3: But but that's when the club. I think John bought

518
00:24:10,721 --> 00:24:14,281
Speaker 3: it in two thousands, so that's when it really changed.

519
00:24:14,481 --> 00:24:16,801
Speaker 3: But I'd already left by then, but I had gone back,

520
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:18,441
Speaker 3: like I said, and did a couple of things.

521
00:24:18,801 --> 00:24:21,441
Speaker 4: I think when yeah, yeah, around that time.

522
00:24:21,761 --> 00:24:24,641
Speaker 2: That time, well, because I've never experienced that. I think

523
00:24:24,801 --> 00:24:27,681
Speaker 2: I went once in two thousand or maybe ninety eight

524
00:24:27,801 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 2: DCMS before I was doing anything. I'm on the doors,

525
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,281
Speaker 2: But do you think that was the best era for

526
00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:34,400
Speaker 2: DCMS when you had it?

527
00:24:34,481 --> 00:24:36,761
Speaker 3: Look, you know, that's a conversation and I saw I'm

528
00:24:36,801 --> 00:24:39,001
Speaker 3: sure you see it in all the DCM groups and

529
00:24:39,041 --> 00:24:41,961
Speaker 3: you know, even the group I run as specifically what

530
00:24:42,001 --> 00:24:44,840
Speaker 3: we call the og group. It's from nineteen ninety to

531
00:24:44,921 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 3: two thousand and and you know, someone comes in there

532
00:24:47,801 --> 00:24:50,521
Speaker 3: and says something nice about John Ibraham. He gets blocked,

533
00:24:50,681 --> 00:24:54,400
Speaker 3: you know, not really, but he should because that's that era,

534
00:24:54,801 --> 00:24:57,041
Speaker 3: you know. And then I see other groups that are

535
00:24:57,080 --> 00:25:01,281
Speaker 3: the Sunset Brothers and u N Sydney, which is United

536
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:05,881
Speaker 3: Nations John Ibraham's United Nations. And yes, I'm gonna eye

537
00:25:06,001 --> 00:25:10,721
Speaker 3: roll there because that was just a wang. And sorry, John,

538
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:15,321
Speaker 3: You're very sweet, but what a wang. And you know

539
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 3: it's just funny, you know. And so it definitely it changed.

540
00:25:20,041 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 3: And you know d c M from two thousand John's

541
00:25:23,001 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 3: d CM. People argue all the time, what's better, but

542
00:25:26,201 --> 00:25:28,281
Speaker 3: you see it, and there's so the groups are so

543
00:25:28,441 --> 00:25:29,321
Speaker 3: passionate about it.

544
00:25:29,441 --> 00:25:31,001
Speaker 2: I get all the time because when I do the

545
00:25:31,001 --> 00:25:32,241
Speaker 2: walks and talk about d CMS.

546
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:34,721
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean I've even come in. I mean, like, no,

547
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:38,681
Speaker 3: our group was better. It's hard not to say something.

548
00:25:38,481 --> 00:25:40,561
Speaker 2: Because I look at it from when I looked of

549
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,120
Speaker 2: the door and two thousand and two to close. That

550
00:25:44,321 --> 00:25:46,561
Speaker 2: was massive. You're back back then. But as I said,

551
00:25:46,561 --> 00:25:49,001
Speaker 2: I never seen what happened when you had it, you

552
00:25:49,001 --> 00:25:50,761
Speaker 2: know what I mean. But that's why I've just got wow.

553
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:52,241
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what I mean.

554
00:25:52,241 --> 00:25:53,920
Speaker 3: You can watch season two of Last King of the

555
00:25:53,961 --> 00:25:55,720
Speaker 3: Cross to see the transition, you know.

556
00:25:55,921 --> 00:25:58,641
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, dramatic license in there.

557
00:25:58,761 --> 00:26:00,521
Speaker 4: Now you're bringing up this. Now this is I wasn't

558
00:26:00,521 --> 00:26:03,360
Speaker 4: gonna bring this up yet. Okay, but now jump around.

559
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 1: I'm waiting to it off.

560
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,281
Speaker 4: Now, Lasking of the Cross. You've got a character that

561
00:26:08,321 --> 00:26:11,281
Speaker 4: plays you. Yeah, okay, apparently, well apparently.

562
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,281
Speaker 3: With anyone else with a dramatic Well, no, there's no

563
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:19,761
Speaker 3: other six foot two that ever ever worked at Patches

564
00:26:19,961 --> 00:26:22,441
Speaker 3: to d C days, So yes, I suppose.

565
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,321
Speaker 2: So how how much of that is true? On your

566
00:26:25,400 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 2: behalf of what you've seen of your character?

567
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,321
Speaker 1: There were quite a lot of things.

568
00:26:30,241 --> 00:26:32,521
Speaker 3: I mean, but Tim and Brook weren't Indian, I think

569
00:26:32,561 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 3: in the in the show they're Indian, So you know,

570
00:26:35,521 --> 00:26:38,481
Speaker 3: there was that which cracked me out. But there were

571
00:26:38,521 --> 00:26:40,801
Speaker 3: certain things of John coming to the club as a

572
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,801
Speaker 3: kid and and everyone thinking it was just hot stuff,

573
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,960
Speaker 3: and you know, all of us going sexy man, and

574
00:26:47,041 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 3: you know that's what our show girls were like back then, and.

575
00:26:50,481 --> 00:26:51,240
Speaker 1: There was a lot of it.

576
00:26:51,281 --> 00:26:51,961
Speaker 4: Did you try?

577
00:26:52,281 --> 00:26:55,161
Speaker 1: No, I don't remember. Look, I would sure.

578
00:26:57,880 --> 00:26:58,521
Speaker 4: I didn't.

579
00:26:59,001 --> 00:27:04,200
Speaker 3: And if I don't remember, see that's I like short

580
00:27:04,761 --> 00:27:05,321
Speaker 3: really man.

581
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:06,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, the.

582
00:27:07,801 --> 00:27:11,321
Speaker 3: Two relationships I've had, I've always been with short ethnic guys.

583
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:13,960
Speaker 3: You know, give me a Lebanese or an Italian and

584
00:27:14,001 --> 00:27:19,441
Speaker 3: I'm happy. But no, wonder I've never kept one. Yeah,

585
00:27:19,761 --> 00:27:22,801
Speaker 3: but I don't remember. But look, everyone thought he was

586
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 3: fabulous and he would hang around and stuff. But a

587
00:27:25,681 --> 00:27:29,480
Speaker 3: lot of there was definitely the early parts in the

588
00:27:29,481 --> 00:27:33,961
Speaker 3: first few episodes of Me and Stuff very close. You know,

589
00:27:34,281 --> 00:27:37,561
Speaker 3: there's an episode where my character kills herself and John

590
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:42,281
Speaker 3: saves her. I don't remember that. I think that might

591
00:27:42,281 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 3: be a dramatic license in there somewhere.

592
00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,481
Speaker 1: It wasn't me. But you know, it is a TV

593
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: show too, so I mean, you're not in it.

594
00:27:49,561 --> 00:27:50,960
Speaker 4: You should be in it.

595
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 3: Where's David and Margaret well right hand people, and they're

596
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,640
Speaker 3: just not in the show. So obviously John's version of

597
00:27:59,681 --> 00:28:04,681
Speaker 3: it is either clouded by substance or by ego.

598
00:28:04,761 --> 00:28:08,961
Speaker 1: Who And that's just from me. Sorry. I know you

599
00:28:09,001 --> 00:28:09,481
Speaker 1: love him.

600
00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:11,761
Speaker 3: I love him too, but you know, and I see

601
00:28:11,801 --> 00:28:14,041
Speaker 3: him because I live in Byron Bay. I see him

602
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,001
Speaker 3: occasionally come into Byron Bay and we say hello.

603
00:28:17,681 --> 00:28:20,561
Speaker 1: At a distance, like, hey, you.

604
00:28:20,521 --> 00:28:22,801
Speaker 4: Going when you have DCMS?

605
00:28:22,921 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: What clients hell would come into DCMS for you, like

606
00:28:25,761 --> 00:28:27,441
Speaker 2: you're saying, because it was a well known.

607
00:28:27,441 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 3: Super cool, A lot of a lot of the show

608
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,281
Speaker 3: girls would come in because we had a rule. You know,

609
00:28:32,441 --> 00:28:34,640
Speaker 3: show girls got in for free, drag queens got in

610
00:28:34,681 --> 00:28:36,801
Speaker 3: for free. And you know we had different types of

611
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:39,641
Speaker 3: memberships as well. You know, Thursday Night was a gay membership.

612
00:28:39,681 --> 00:28:41,161
Speaker 3: It was a blue card. If you were lucky to

613
00:28:41,201 --> 00:28:43,561
Speaker 3: get one of those, you'd have to apply. You'd get

614
00:28:43,601 --> 00:28:46,761
Speaker 3: in for free. And Saturday Night was a sweat membership

615
00:28:46,841 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 3: that people wanted and they had to I think the

616
00:28:49,521 --> 00:28:52,881
Speaker 3: sweat one was one hundred dollars, which was a lot

617
00:28:52,881 --> 00:28:55,281
Speaker 3: of money back then, but that got you you could

618
00:28:55,401 --> 00:28:58,401
Speaker 3: Q jump and you could get in for free and

619
00:28:58,481 --> 00:29:01,041
Speaker 3: bring one another with you. I'm sure one of the

620
00:29:01,081 --> 00:29:03,681
Speaker 3: managers will message me when they see this and go, Nah,

621
00:29:03,721 --> 00:29:07,881
Speaker 3: you're wrong. I obviously was drinking way too much back then.

622
00:29:08,841 --> 00:29:11,601
Speaker 3: That's what I remember about the sweat membership. And then

623
00:29:11,641 --> 00:29:15,240
Speaker 3: there was an industry membership that you couldn't buy and

624
00:29:15,281 --> 00:29:17,960
Speaker 3: you would be given which was a barter system for

625
00:29:18,081 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: US managers to give to VIPs and that industry card

626
00:29:22,481 --> 00:29:24,801
Speaker 3: would get two or three people in for free and

627
00:29:24,841 --> 00:29:28,200
Speaker 3: you would be treated a little better every night. And

628
00:29:28,241 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 3: then there was a gold card, and there were I

629
00:29:30,201 --> 00:29:33,280
Speaker 3: think in general there was probably a gold card that

630
00:29:33,641 --> 00:29:36,921
Speaker 3: just got your free drinks and any amount of people

631
00:29:36,961 --> 00:29:38,881
Speaker 3: through the door. And I think there was only ever

632
00:29:39,081 --> 00:29:40,881
Speaker 3: less than fifty gold cards ever.

633
00:29:40,761 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: Given out during the entire range. They were special how

634
00:29:44,001 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: many could hold when you are, oh, you're really pushing

635
00:29:46,481 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: me there, but I think it was I think at

636
00:29:49,241 --> 00:29:51,081
Speaker 1: the time it was like five hundred.

637
00:29:51,521 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 4: How many would you get in?

638
00:29:52,641 --> 00:29:55,721
Speaker 2: Like like what we used to say the same for us,

639
00:29:55,761 --> 00:29:57,281
Speaker 2: like it was like I think we had a license

640
00:29:57,281 --> 00:29:59,561
Speaker 2: for three hundred and forty three sixty something like that,

641
00:29:59,601 --> 00:30:01,241
Speaker 2: but there was always like twelve hundred in there.

642
00:30:01,241 --> 00:30:03,281
Speaker 4: Like yeah, it was crampy.

643
00:30:02,921 --> 00:30:06,281
Speaker 3: Peeps more especially, and we would do hearty long weekends,

644
00:30:06,601 --> 00:30:08,641
Speaker 3: like even though we had a twenty four hour license

645
00:30:08,721 --> 00:30:11,241
Speaker 3: back then before all the apartments were built out of DC,

646
00:30:11,361 --> 00:30:14,200
Speaker 3: and we would like on a good long weekend like

647
00:30:14,241 --> 00:30:17,841
Speaker 3: an October long weekend or an Easter Sunday weekend, we

648
00:30:17,881 --> 00:30:21,481
Speaker 3: would open on a Friday at ten and not shut

649
00:30:21,721 --> 00:30:23,401
Speaker 3: until Monday morning.

650
00:30:23,881 --> 00:30:25,201
Speaker 4: Like we would just go all the way through.

651
00:30:25,321 --> 00:30:26,561
Speaker 1: We would be twenty four hours.

652
00:30:26,641 --> 00:30:29,361
Speaker 3: So as managers, we would all go home, get some sleep,

653
00:30:29,361 --> 00:30:31,641
Speaker 3: and go back the next day to do the next shift.

654
00:30:31,641 --> 00:30:34,561
Speaker 3: And the cleaners would come through while people are still dancing. Wow,

655
00:30:34,961 --> 00:30:37,921
Speaker 3: you know, and go all day. They were crazy days.

656
00:30:37,961 --> 00:30:39,401
Speaker 2: Who were some of the famous people that have gone

657
00:30:39,401 --> 00:30:40,401
Speaker 2: through that door that you've seen?

658
00:30:40,521 --> 00:30:45,561
Speaker 1: Oh god, so many names. I'm in the minogues.

659
00:30:45,761 --> 00:30:46,761
Speaker 4: Do any of them misbehave?

660
00:30:48,001 --> 00:30:49,401
Speaker 1: No, they didn't, you know.

661
00:30:49,601 --> 00:30:52,561
Speaker 3: And even down to real housewives sitting in. Melissa cout

662
00:30:52,681 --> 00:30:56,241
Speaker 3: she was a regular Marsha heines. You know. A couple

663
00:30:56,281 --> 00:30:59,041
Speaker 3: of times with Melissa, I drag her into the office,

664
00:30:59,081 --> 00:31:01,001
Speaker 3: Go okay, you make up some mess, let me fix

665
00:31:01,041 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 3: that for you.

666
00:31:01,561 --> 00:31:03,681
Speaker 4: Oh so you only went there for some effection makeup

667
00:31:03,721 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 4: in the office. Yeah. When I used to go.

668
00:31:07,441 --> 00:31:08,961
Speaker 1: To the office, it wasn't well.

669
00:31:09,361 --> 00:31:14,241
Speaker 3: The office was used for many many things, mixing up maker,

670
00:31:15,681 --> 00:31:20,321
Speaker 3: heating up things in the microwave. I had a few

671
00:31:20,441 --> 00:31:24,521
Speaker 3: office romances with some of the manpower boys in there, well,

672
00:31:24,801 --> 00:31:29,361
Speaker 3: I must say, And yeah, the office was the playground,

673
00:31:29,881 --> 00:31:32,281
Speaker 3: the playground for all of us. But in general, you know,

674
00:31:32,401 --> 00:31:35,121
Speaker 3: people would just sit up there like the VIPs like,

675
00:31:35,201 --> 00:31:37,321
Speaker 3: you know, it was nothing to open the office door

676
00:31:37,321 --> 00:31:40,281
Speaker 3: to go and do something work wise and see Marsha

677
00:31:40,321 --> 00:31:43,001
Speaker 3: heines having a chat and looking at all the security

678
00:31:43,041 --> 00:31:45,761
Speaker 3: wall because we had security cameras. And then there'd be

679
00:31:45,761 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 3: a buzzer downstairs, more champagne for Marsha and up it

680
00:31:48,521 --> 00:31:51,720
Speaker 3: ad come or or whoever it was. I remember, you know,

681
00:31:51,881 --> 00:31:54,041
Speaker 3: some of the biggest stars, like the Pet Shop Boys

682
00:31:54,121 --> 00:31:56,601
Speaker 3: came in and they hired the club for the an

683
00:31:56,641 --> 00:32:00,521
Speaker 3: album launch and they walked in downstairs and we greeted

684
00:32:00,561 --> 00:32:04,161
Speaker 3: them and they didn't want to know about the event

685
00:32:04,281 --> 00:32:06,760
Speaker 3: downstairs for the launched. They said, is there's somewhere private

686
00:32:06,801 --> 00:32:09,761
Speaker 3: we can go? And we took them upstairs to the office.

687
00:32:09,761 --> 00:32:12,041
Speaker 3: And the office was really basic back then. I know

688
00:32:12,281 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: that you know the un and John had put lounges in.

689
00:32:15,801 --> 00:32:16,681
Speaker 1: There was none of that.

690
00:32:16,841 --> 00:32:19,241
Speaker 3: We had office chairs and tables and it was quite

691
00:32:19,281 --> 00:32:23,361
Speaker 3: sparse and fluo lights and you know, it wasn't glamorous,

692
00:32:23,481 --> 00:32:24,480
Speaker 3: but everyone loved it.

693
00:32:24,561 --> 00:32:26,321
Speaker 1: It wasn't the place to go and have a chat.

694
00:32:26,481 --> 00:32:29,961
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so the Pet Shop boys came up there

695
00:32:29,961 --> 00:32:32,881
Speaker 3: with me and you know, they stayed for a long time,

696
00:32:32,961 --> 00:32:35,521
Speaker 3: and you know, their management would come up and go,

697
00:32:35,841 --> 00:32:37,601
Speaker 3: you really need to come down and do some photos

698
00:32:37,601 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 3: with the VIPs in the front bar because that was

699
00:32:40,001 --> 00:32:42,201
Speaker 3: secluded off for their album launch.

700
00:32:42,561 --> 00:32:44,281
Speaker 1: And they were like in a minute. They were busy

701
00:32:44,641 --> 00:32:52,041
Speaker 1: doing things with the microwave. They used the microwave a lot.

702
00:32:52,401 --> 00:32:54,841
Speaker 3: But the funniest thing I remember from the Pet Shop

703
00:32:54,881 --> 00:32:57,801
Speaker 3: boys because of the fluo lights, is that I kept

704
00:32:57,841 --> 00:33:01,321
Speaker 3: looking at them going, they're so fucking old, like they

705
00:33:01,321 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 3: were old, old man, and you know we're talking in

706
00:33:03,961 --> 00:33:07,201
Speaker 3: the nineties. Go figure. I was so shocked at how

707
00:33:07,201 --> 00:33:11,521
Speaker 3: old they looked. And so the week after we installed

708
00:33:11,521 --> 00:33:14,401
Speaker 3: dimmers in the office because I was like that we

709
00:33:14,481 --> 00:33:16,281
Speaker 3: kind of have those Feroh lights if we all looked

710
00:33:16,281 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 3: that over. So we had nice dimmer lights put in

711
00:33:20,001 --> 00:33:24,561
Speaker 3: to soften when VIPs came in, and you know things

712
00:33:24,601 --> 00:33:24,961
Speaker 3: like that.

713
00:33:25,401 --> 00:33:29,121
Speaker 4: So dcms like when I'd say, anyone brings.

714
00:33:28,961 --> 00:33:30,601
Speaker 3: Up Decease and there was a lot more stars. So look,

715
00:33:30,641 --> 00:33:34,121
Speaker 3: Mary Kiani, the high energy singer from Scotland, came over

716
00:33:34,161 --> 00:33:36,761
Speaker 3: and became part of our family, and she was a

717
00:33:36,841 --> 00:33:39,881
Speaker 3: DCM family and there was we did the launch of

718
00:33:39,921 --> 00:33:43,041
Speaker 3: the Romeo and Juliets soundtrack. I can't remember her name

719
00:33:43,041 --> 00:33:45,440
Speaker 3: I've gone blank now, but she came in and she

720
00:33:45,561 --> 00:33:47,681
Speaker 3: was part of that, and there was just always Madonna

721
00:33:47,721 --> 00:33:51,401
Speaker 3: came in at some point in Madonna, she was in town.

722
00:33:52,041 --> 00:33:52,881
Speaker 4: She came a disease.

723
00:33:53,241 --> 00:33:56,361
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is early, and she came in and

724
00:33:56,401 --> 00:33:58,481
Speaker 3: she had a She popped in for a second because

725
00:33:58,521 --> 00:34:00,801
Speaker 3: it was like phone calls and popped in, stayed for

726
00:34:00,841 --> 00:34:04,961
Speaker 3: five minutes, fled, and then she had a birthday because

727
00:34:04,961 --> 00:34:07,200
Speaker 3: she was on tour with the Girly Tour. So whatever,

728
00:34:07,321 --> 00:34:09,521
Speaker 3: it'll be the year the Girly Tour hit Sydney, so

729
00:34:09,561 --> 00:34:11,521
Speaker 3: I think could have been ninety eight something like that.

730
00:34:12,161 --> 00:34:14,401
Speaker 3: And she had a party down at you know, under

731
00:34:14,401 --> 00:34:16,761
Speaker 3: the Harbor Bridge. What's that restaurant that used to be

732
00:34:16,841 --> 00:34:19,441
Speaker 3: down there where the Harbor viewers, like Pier.

733
00:34:19,281 --> 00:34:20,440
Speaker 4: One or something like that.

734
00:34:20,521 --> 00:34:23,001
Speaker 3: She had a birthday party down for her brother who

735
00:34:23,041 --> 00:34:27,241
Speaker 3: she no longer talks to, Christopher, and it was just drag,

736
00:34:27,321 --> 00:34:30,321
Speaker 3: queens galore, And we all went to the party and

737
00:34:30,361 --> 00:34:33,641
Speaker 3: we were sitting with her and there was a up high.

738
00:34:33,761 --> 00:34:37,041
Speaker 3: She had lesbians on stocks, and you know, it was

739
00:34:37,281 --> 00:34:40,161
Speaker 3: very bizarre, and you know, people pouring hot wax on

740
00:34:40,241 --> 00:34:44,441
Speaker 3: lesbian snipples and people whipping gay boys on these you know,

741
00:34:44,481 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 3: the things that turn around like that and whipping them

742
00:34:47,001 --> 00:34:50,361
Speaker 3: and she just was like this S and M party

743
00:34:50,401 --> 00:34:50,961
Speaker 3: for a brother.

744
00:34:51,041 --> 00:34:52,001
Speaker 1: It was very bizarre.

745
00:34:52,001 --> 00:34:55,761
Speaker 3: And I remember at one point she was like, ID

746
00:34:55,921 --> 00:34:57,801
Speaker 3: to climb that ladder and pour hot wax on that

747
00:34:57,881 --> 00:34:59,121
Speaker 3: lesbian snipples And I was.

748
00:34:59,041 --> 00:34:59,601
Speaker 4: Like, okay.

749
00:35:00,921 --> 00:35:02,881
Speaker 1: I was like, all, let's do this. And you know

750
00:35:02,961 --> 00:35:05,401
Speaker 1: the next day I got up and did it. You know,

751
00:35:05,481 --> 00:35:07,561
Speaker 1: there was a pause, and you know it was all.

752
00:35:07,401 --> 00:35:10,681
Speaker 3: Fun, and that's the bravado of you know, being a

753
00:35:10,761 --> 00:35:13,721
Speaker 3: DCM manager. We would do crazy things like that. And

754
00:35:13,801 --> 00:35:16,481
Speaker 3: so it was written up in the Daily I think

755
00:35:16,521 --> 00:35:18,761
Speaker 3: it was a Daily Telegraph or something. My mum read

756
00:35:18,801 --> 00:35:20,841
Speaker 3: it and she was like, what is that. You know,

757
00:35:21,081 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 3: Penny was seen at the Madonna thing, you know, pouring.

758
00:35:23,641 --> 00:35:25,561
Speaker 1: Hot wax, you know on it.

759
00:35:25,601 --> 00:35:27,721
Speaker 3: There was a whole rider, not just about me, but

760
00:35:27,761 --> 00:35:30,521
Speaker 3: the whole thing and Penny one of the managers at DCM,

761
00:35:30,561 --> 00:35:33,041
Speaker 3: and I was like, Lord, have mercy. Those are the

762
00:35:33,121 --> 00:35:35,681
Speaker 3: kind of weird things. I wish I had that clip.

763
00:35:35,801 --> 00:35:38,241
Speaker 3: I wish I had that little Daily Telegraph clip because

764
00:35:38,281 --> 00:35:41,521
Speaker 3: couldn't I frame that? That's like acclaim to fame. So

765
00:35:41,841 --> 00:35:44,521
Speaker 3: there's so many of those little things over the years.

766
00:35:44,601 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 2: You know, as I said before, like I think DCMS

767
00:35:48,241 --> 00:35:49,561
Speaker 2: was it the first club we you should go in

768
00:35:49,601 --> 00:35:52,521
Speaker 2: there and all members of their tops off, like is that?

769
00:35:52,601 --> 00:35:52,801
Speaker 1: Yes?

770
00:35:52,881 --> 00:35:54,841
Speaker 3: It was, yeah, And it wasn't just gay man, it

771
00:35:54,841 --> 00:35:57,121
Speaker 3: was straight man like. It was a ride of passage

772
00:35:57,121 --> 00:35:59,121
Speaker 3: for you know, a straight man to come in in

773
00:35:59,201 --> 00:36:02,201
Speaker 3: his leather pants and take his shirt off and get

774
00:36:02,281 --> 00:36:05,481
Speaker 3: up on that podium and sweat and go off, and

775
00:36:06,161 --> 00:36:06,721
Speaker 3: that's that's.

776
00:36:06,881 --> 00:36:08,241
Speaker 4: There's no rules, really no.

777
00:36:08,401 --> 00:36:10,561
Speaker 3: And it was the uniform you know, every gay man

778
00:36:10,601 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 3: and every straight man that came in there. And as

779
00:36:12,481 --> 00:36:14,601
Speaker 3: we as the years progressed, it was always more straight

780
00:36:14,681 --> 00:36:17,321
Speaker 3: man leather pants. And you know they'd get up to

781
00:36:17,361 --> 00:36:21,201
Speaker 3: the front step and you know, already chewing and echy

782
00:36:21,401 --> 00:36:24,921
Speaker 3: jaw and off eki off they'd go. And they'd be

783
00:36:25,281 --> 00:36:27,601
Speaker 3: they'd been somewhere and they'd come up and whoever the

784
00:36:27,641 --> 00:36:30,201
Speaker 3: door bitch was or something, they'd stand there with their

785
00:36:30,241 --> 00:36:32,921
Speaker 3: dollars would be folded up and it'd take them five

786
00:36:32,961 --> 00:36:35,121
Speaker 3: minutes to unfold the dollars. And you know, we were

787
00:36:35,161 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 3: really tough. You know, if you can't have your money ready,

788
00:36:38,041 --> 00:36:40,481
Speaker 3: go back downstairs. And line up again, you know, like

789
00:36:41,081 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 3: there was fashion police. It was all kinds. Oh yeah,

790
00:36:44,681 --> 00:36:47,681
Speaker 3: we had people would walk along. I remember to LULAA. Bright,

791
00:36:47,761 --> 00:36:50,801
Speaker 3: she was one of about favorite drags at the door.

792
00:36:51,041 --> 00:36:52,881
Speaker 3: She would walk down and she goes, you know, they'd

793
00:36:52,881 --> 00:36:55,841
Speaker 3: get up the stairs past security and she'd go, you're

794
00:36:55,881 --> 00:36:57,801
Speaker 3: not coming in with those shoes. I don't care if

795
00:36:57,841 --> 00:37:00,481
Speaker 3: you've got past security, go you're not coming in tonight.

796
00:37:00,761 --> 00:37:01,681
Speaker 3: Your shoes are ugly.

797
00:37:01,921 --> 00:37:03,441
Speaker 4: So I wasn't the only one who didn't know.

798
00:37:03,721 --> 00:37:06,321
Speaker 3: And then no, we started the fashion police early, like

799
00:37:06,401 --> 00:37:08,321
Speaker 3: at some point, you know, there were there were even

800
00:37:08,321 --> 00:37:11,201
Speaker 3: shifts like I would just be downstairs and I would

801
00:37:11,241 --> 00:37:13,201
Speaker 3: just walk along because the lineup would go all the

802
00:37:13,201 --> 00:37:16,041
Speaker 3: way up the end, and I just walk along and go, No,

803
00:37:16,161 --> 00:37:19,561
Speaker 3: you're not coming in tonight. Sorry that outfit. No, not

804
00:37:19,641 --> 00:37:20,281
Speaker 3: with that hair.

805
00:37:20,801 --> 00:37:23,361
Speaker 1: You know, like we were. You can't do that now,

806
00:37:23,401 --> 00:37:25,401
Speaker 1: but you know that's what we did.

807
00:37:25,721 --> 00:37:27,321
Speaker 4: Were you start to leave DC's.

808
00:37:27,801 --> 00:37:31,081
Speaker 3: Look at the time when I left, just I think

809
00:37:31,081 --> 00:37:33,201
Speaker 3: it was six or seven months before it got sold.

810
00:37:33,561 --> 00:37:36,121
Speaker 3: I think it got to the point where it was

811
00:37:36,441 --> 00:37:39,281
Speaker 3: healthier for me to leave because it really had become like,

812
00:37:39,441 --> 00:37:41,841
Speaker 3: you know, we were living in a bubble as the

813
00:37:41,881 --> 00:37:42,801
Speaker 3: managers of the club.

814
00:37:44,361 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: No, I never had a chat with him about that.

815
00:37:46,481 --> 00:37:49,961
Speaker 4: Oh wow, so no, yeah.

816
00:37:49,881 --> 00:37:51,601
Speaker 1: No, I never had a chat with him about so

817
00:37:51,601 --> 00:37:53,521
Speaker 1: he just came in and brought his new people, know

818
00:37:53,681 --> 00:37:54,521
Speaker 1: these new people in you.

819
00:37:54,921 --> 00:37:57,881
Speaker 2: Wow, I didn't know that. I thought you actually mst

820
00:37:57,881 --> 00:37:58,761
Speaker 2: have got the officer to stay.

821
00:37:58,921 --> 00:38:00,081
Speaker 1: No, no, no, I didn't.

822
00:38:00,281 --> 00:38:03,161
Speaker 3: So then calling you back to come back and run

823
00:38:03,201 --> 00:38:05,641
Speaker 3: the DCM parties was very nice, you know, it was

824
00:38:05,681 --> 00:38:08,241
Speaker 3: lovely and I and you know, David and Margaret and

825
00:38:08,321 --> 00:38:11,001
Speaker 3: I got along and you know, John would come in

826
00:38:11,041 --> 00:38:13,881
Speaker 3: and I would run the I did two or three

827
00:38:14,081 --> 00:38:16,521
Speaker 3: what I classified as you in Sydney, and you.

828
00:38:16,481 --> 00:38:18,761
Speaker 2: Know, because I think we started to do some gay

829
00:38:18,801 --> 00:38:21,081
Speaker 2: and lesbian nights on Sunday nights too. Yeah, but they

830
00:38:21,081 --> 00:38:23,001
Speaker 2: didn't actually work because I think it got to the

831
00:38:23,001 --> 00:38:25,561
Speaker 2: point there where the Gay and Lesbian's or Oxtra Street

832
00:38:25,601 --> 00:38:26,921
Speaker 2: were two anti dcms.

833
00:38:27,081 --> 00:38:29,881
Speaker 3: It just yes, no, they just never came back because

834
00:38:29,881 --> 00:38:32,361
Speaker 3: there was just too much. It was, you know, they

835
00:38:32,361 --> 00:38:35,161
Speaker 3: didn't feel comfortable inside because it had gotten it had

836
00:38:35,201 --> 00:38:38,361
Speaker 3: gone from a few scrapes when we were owning it

837
00:38:38,441 --> 00:38:42,881
Speaker 3: to much more when John and had become very tessaone Field,

838
00:38:43,321 --> 00:38:44,321
Speaker 3: I suppose it's the word.

839
00:38:44,321 --> 00:38:47,241
Speaker 4: Do you think it? Like, like credibly if I'm wrong?

840
00:38:47,521 --> 00:38:50,481
Speaker 2: Ox Street, No for for what it is, Okay, So

841
00:38:50,561 --> 00:38:53,441
Speaker 2: when a straight people come into your clubs, do you

842
00:38:53,481 --> 00:38:55,881
Speaker 2: just get a bit like shitty with them coming in?

843
00:38:56,161 --> 00:38:59,641
Speaker 2: Because look they talk over DCMS. Okay it was.

844
00:38:59,281 --> 00:39:02,041
Speaker 1: See, I personally didn't. I loved that the club.

845
00:39:02,201 --> 00:39:05,721
Speaker 3: I was always proud that our club, our version of DCM,

846
00:39:06,041 --> 00:39:10,241
Speaker 3: was really happy and mixed. And I was always proud

847
00:39:10,281 --> 00:39:12,321
Speaker 3: that all kinds of people could come to the club

848
00:39:12,361 --> 00:39:14,321
Speaker 3: because to me, that's what all clubs should be.

849
00:39:14,361 --> 00:39:15,601
Speaker 4: But I feel like it.

850
00:39:15,641 --> 00:39:17,001
Speaker 1: But then it got really bad.

851
00:39:17,081 --> 00:39:21,441
Speaker 3: Ye like look at Ark now arcs Now Laura, But

852
00:39:22,281 --> 00:39:24,201
Speaker 3: the same thing happened at Ark. I saw that that

853
00:39:24,361 --> 00:39:27,681
Speaker 3: was specifically a gay club, and then slowly.

854
00:39:27,401 --> 00:39:29,561
Speaker 4: You let them in, Yeah, and it becomes a straight club.

855
00:39:29,841 --> 00:39:31,801
Speaker 3: And now I see the hate for you know, I

856
00:39:31,841 --> 00:39:34,401
Speaker 3: live in Barrons, so I've been I've lived there eight

857
00:39:34,521 --> 00:39:37,921
Speaker 3: nine years now, so I follow things what's going on.

858
00:39:38,401 --> 00:39:40,281
Speaker 3: But you know, I see a lot of hate towards

859
00:39:40,321 --> 00:39:43,561
Speaker 3: Noir is it? You know? I am now and I

860
00:39:43,601 --> 00:39:45,960
Speaker 3: see a lot of hate because a lot of from

861
00:39:45,961 --> 00:39:50,001
Speaker 3: the gay community because they so close to Stonewalls. So

862
00:39:50,561 --> 00:39:54,361
Speaker 3: two clubs so close together with two different demographics and

863
00:39:54,481 --> 00:39:57,561
Speaker 3: people is causing some issues between that.

864
00:39:57,681 --> 00:40:00,481
Speaker 2: Well, that's when DCMS moved up to Havana and the

865
00:40:00,521 --> 00:40:02,761
Speaker 2: same thing happened when stone Wall didn't.

866
00:40:02,601 --> 00:40:06,401
Speaker 3: Like it Bibloss and you know, at some point the

867
00:40:06,481 --> 00:40:10,761
Speaker 3: gays were then saying DCM has now turned Oxford Street straight,

868
00:40:10,841 --> 00:40:13,561
Speaker 3: because then we had bib Loss and then we had DCM,

869
00:40:13,721 --> 00:40:17,521
Speaker 3: and you know, and then ARC started going straight, and

870
00:40:17,681 --> 00:40:21,321
Speaker 3: you know, it became a different Oxford Street From me, it's.

871
00:40:21,201 --> 00:40:24,121
Speaker 1: A little bit more gay now. But now, I mean,

872
00:40:24,161 --> 00:40:24,481
Speaker 1: I don't know.

873
00:40:24,481 --> 00:40:26,241
Speaker 3: I haven't been out on Oxford Street for a while,

874
00:40:26,321 --> 00:40:30,001
Speaker 3: but with Noir there now and Aura has taken over,

875
00:40:30,401 --> 00:40:32,041
Speaker 3: I don't know, has it changed much?

876
00:40:32,321 --> 00:40:33,001
Speaker 1: Have you been there?

877
00:40:33,401 --> 00:40:35,440
Speaker 4: You go out, I don't go out, but I've seen

878
00:40:35,481 --> 00:40:36,001
Speaker 4: the streets and.

879
00:40:36,161 --> 00:40:39,321
Speaker 3: You get invited to the opening night of Aura. I

880
00:40:39,361 --> 00:40:42,601
Speaker 3: got invited Dave Old, who owns it. It was one

881
00:40:42,641 --> 00:40:45,881
Speaker 3: of the main manager of DCM back in my DCM days.

882
00:40:46,041 --> 00:40:48,841
Speaker 3: He's a lovely, lovely man. And you know, I was

883
00:40:48,881 --> 00:40:51,681
Speaker 3: in Byron and I had a rough week and I

884
00:40:51,721 --> 00:40:54,721
Speaker 3: was like, I can't come down, But I got invited still,

885
00:40:54,721 --> 00:40:56,641
Speaker 3: so it was nice to still be invited by him,

886
00:40:57,121 --> 00:40:59,161
Speaker 3: and I would like to go and see the club

887
00:41:00,161 --> 00:41:03,721
Speaker 3: and it looks beautiful, and I hope that people mix

888
00:41:03,801 --> 00:41:05,841
Speaker 3: in there a bit because so I know that Dave's

889
00:41:05,881 --> 00:41:08,561
Speaker 3: so gay friendly and such an ally and has always

890
00:41:08,601 --> 00:41:09,961
Speaker 3: been a wonderful supporter of me.

891
00:41:10,161 --> 00:41:13,001
Speaker 4: But he can be gay friendly, but it's their clients.

892
00:41:13,521 --> 00:41:16,001
Speaker 3: It's the crowd that come, and he can't control that

893
00:41:16,161 --> 00:41:18,321
Speaker 3: black at Noir. So it's not always his fault, and

894
00:41:18,321 --> 00:41:21,561
Speaker 3: it wasn't always our fault at the end of DCM either,

895
00:41:21,601 --> 00:41:22,121
Speaker 3: I don't think.

896
00:41:22,921 --> 00:41:25,001
Speaker 2: So when you left DCMS, where did you go?

897
00:41:26,081 --> 00:41:28,401
Speaker 3: I fluffed around, Like I said, I fluffed around for

898
00:41:28,401 --> 00:41:30,921
Speaker 3: a little while. You know, it was a real like

899
00:41:31,081 --> 00:41:34,881
Speaker 3: I suppose, coming off drugs nearly to leave a venue

900
00:41:35,001 --> 00:41:39,041
Speaker 3: where you are so high profile and so well loved

901
00:41:39,601 --> 00:41:43,761
Speaker 3: to nothing for a minute. But I was lucky because

902
00:41:43,761 --> 00:41:46,921
Speaker 3: I still had my showgirl. Because all through DCM, I

903
00:41:46,961 --> 00:41:49,361
Speaker 3: still kept you know, I was hosting at it an

904
00:41:49,401 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 3: extreme nightclub at Parramatta, which was a huge strip club

905
00:41:52,481 --> 00:41:54,841
Speaker 3: at the time, and Fridays and Saturdays I would host

906
00:41:54,841 --> 00:41:58,001
Speaker 3: out there and I love that, and I was still

907
00:41:58,121 --> 00:42:01,361
Speaker 3: keeping up show Girls, so I went back into Carlotta

908
00:42:01,481 --> 00:42:03,361
Speaker 3: was touring again, so I joined that.

909
00:42:03,881 --> 00:42:06,321
Speaker 1: I ended up managing show for a little while.

910
00:42:06,641 --> 00:42:09,321
Speaker 3: I worked for a music company for a while and

911
00:42:09,601 --> 00:42:12,841
Speaker 3: that was God. I did that from JRB Music and

912
00:42:12,881 --> 00:42:17,561
Speaker 3: we released Mary Mary Keianni album I became friends with

913
00:42:17,641 --> 00:42:20,801
Speaker 3: from DCM and a Melissa Kutz album. I did that

914
00:42:20,881 --> 00:42:23,681
Speaker 3: for a couple of years, and yeah, I stayed around there,

915
00:42:23,761 --> 00:42:26,961
Speaker 3: and then I ended up a friend was having a

916
00:42:27,041 --> 00:42:28,601
Speaker 3: rough time, and I moved to the Gold Coast for

917
00:42:28,601 --> 00:42:32,561
Speaker 3: a minute and then came back and started as one

918
00:42:32,561 --> 00:42:34,961
Speaker 3: of the managers at the Imperial Hotel in Erskineville.

919
00:42:35,121 --> 00:42:35,841
Speaker 4: How was that?

920
00:42:35,841 --> 00:42:37,561
Speaker 3: That was fantastic? It was nice to be back in

921
00:42:37,601 --> 00:42:40,921
Speaker 3: hospitality again. It was nice to be back running a

922
00:42:40,961 --> 00:42:43,001
Speaker 3: gay club that hadn't been.

923
00:42:43,281 --> 00:42:44,561
Speaker 4: What year was that that you came back to time?

924
00:42:44,761 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: I don't know.

925
00:42:46,321 --> 00:42:47,681
Speaker 2: Do you think do you think the crowd had changed

926
00:42:47,721 --> 00:42:48,921
Speaker 2: when when you come back? Do you think it was

927
00:42:48,921 --> 00:42:49,441
Speaker 2: a lot different?

928
00:42:49,521 --> 00:42:53,161
Speaker 3: Yeah? The stray here was out of decline from a

929
00:42:53,201 --> 00:42:56,241
Speaker 3: little bit, and so we brought it back up and

930
00:42:56,321 --> 00:42:57,961
Speaker 3: now it's a wonderful venue.

931
00:42:57,961 --> 00:43:00,801
Speaker 1: But it's mixed again, you know. So I got a

932
00:43:00,801 --> 00:43:01,441
Speaker 1: lot of hate too.

933
00:43:01,521 --> 00:43:05,201
Speaker 3: It's like wherever Penny goes, a mixed club happened. So

934
00:43:05,241 --> 00:43:07,321
Speaker 3: I stayed there for a few years, but was very

935
00:43:07,321 --> 00:43:10,161
Speaker 3: happy to be back in hospitality. And from there I

936
00:43:10,241 --> 00:43:13,401
Speaker 3: went to By this stage, Tim had left the midnight

937
00:43:13,481 --> 00:43:17,041
Speaker 3: shift and the owners were running it, and after the

938
00:43:17,081 --> 00:43:19,041
Speaker 3: Imperial they asked me to go to the shift and

939
00:43:19,081 --> 00:43:22,481
Speaker 3: I ran that for a few years, and then finally

940
00:43:22,521 --> 00:43:25,321
Speaker 3: at an older ladies age, I moved to Byron Bay.

941
00:43:25,641 --> 00:43:28,401
Speaker 4: So are you officially retired from the life for what?

942
00:43:28,921 --> 00:43:29,921
Speaker 1: Yes, from nightlife?

943
00:43:30,001 --> 00:43:32,081
Speaker 3: Yeah, I still work, but I worked for the Department

944
00:43:32,121 --> 00:43:35,721
Speaker 3: of Education now, so I will what a what a

945
00:43:35,881 --> 00:43:38,441
Speaker 3: change in job. But I wouldn't I love it and

946
00:43:38,481 --> 00:43:39,201
Speaker 3: wouldn't change.

947
00:43:39,321 --> 00:43:40,561
Speaker 4: I think, what's your best memories?

948
00:43:41,001 --> 00:43:43,681
Speaker 2: Like, out of all of it, what what what sticks

949
00:43:43,681 --> 00:43:45,721
Speaker 2: out the most in your head about Wow.

950
00:43:46,241 --> 00:43:48,481
Speaker 3: Just the family, the family at DC and what I

951
00:43:48,561 --> 00:43:50,401
Speaker 3: like to call the family, the people that would come

952
00:43:50,441 --> 00:43:52,921
Speaker 3: in we were even though it was like a huge

953
00:43:52,961 --> 00:43:55,961
Speaker 3: family of a thousand people. I mean, you know, there

954
00:43:56,041 --> 00:43:58,921
Speaker 3: was very many computers back then. So I remember every

955
00:43:58,921 --> 00:44:02,521
Speaker 3: month we would do a four printed newsletter and sit

956
00:44:02,601 --> 00:44:05,161
Speaker 3: there and fold them and put them in envelopes and

957
00:44:05,201 --> 00:44:09,641
Speaker 3: send that out to our database to promote next month's events,

958
00:44:09,641 --> 00:44:11,601
Speaker 3: and we would advertise in three D world. It was

959
00:44:11,641 --> 00:44:14,601
Speaker 3: print media, so there was no social media. So those

960
00:44:14,721 --> 00:44:17,841
Speaker 3: kind of things and the rapport of just being with

961
00:44:17,881 --> 00:44:20,921
Speaker 3: the managers of DCM and we became a family and

962
00:44:20,921 --> 00:44:23,201
Speaker 3: we were you know, and I'm still friends with most

963
00:44:23,241 --> 00:44:23,921
Speaker 3: of them today.

964
00:44:24,041 --> 00:44:27,041
Speaker 2: You know, Well, when you had DMS, do you think

965
00:44:27,081 --> 00:44:28,761
Speaker 2: it was what was it? Do you think it was

966
00:44:28,801 --> 00:44:31,681
Speaker 2: the venue, the DJ's, the crowd, what was it that

967
00:44:31,801 --> 00:44:33,441
Speaker 2: brought them to DCS when you had it?

968
00:44:34,521 --> 00:44:37,161
Speaker 3: I think people. I think the gays came because it

969
00:44:37,201 --> 00:44:39,721
Speaker 3: was a changeover from Patches and they stayed with us.

970
00:44:39,841 --> 00:44:42,521
Speaker 3: The drag shows kept them and a safe place for

971
00:44:42,601 --> 00:44:44,801
Speaker 3: them to come. The straight people when they started coming

972
00:44:44,841 --> 00:44:47,761
Speaker 3: in were all they didn't know the word allies back then,

973
00:44:47,841 --> 00:44:51,561
Speaker 3: but were supportive and friendly and wanted to be included

974
00:44:51,601 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 3: in it, and somehow stumbled in slowly in it and

975
00:44:54,481 --> 00:44:58,081
Speaker 3: it infiltrated slowly. I think people loved the drag shows.

976
00:44:58,521 --> 00:45:01,401
Speaker 3: I think they loved the girls loved going to a

977
00:45:01,441 --> 00:45:04,921
Speaker 3: place where boys wouldn't always harass them for sex because

978
00:45:05,041 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 3: there was more gay people there, and you know, that's

979
00:45:07,521 --> 00:45:09,841
Speaker 3: how it normally happens, you know, like a gay guy

980
00:45:09,881 --> 00:45:11,881
Speaker 3: will bring a straight girlfriend and well.

981
00:45:11,721 --> 00:45:14,001
Speaker 4: That's what I was like, Yeah.

982
00:45:13,441 --> 00:45:15,721
Speaker 3: So that's how it changes. And then the straight girlfriend

983
00:45:15,761 --> 00:45:18,601
Speaker 3: will invite three other girlfriends and then their boyfriends, and

984
00:45:18,641 --> 00:45:22,401
Speaker 3: then the boyfriends realize hey, this is a who and

985
00:45:22,441 --> 00:45:27,601
Speaker 3: then slowly over time it changes, and so yeah, I

986
00:45:27,641 --> 00:45:30,361
Speaker 3: think that's how it's happened. I mean, I have so

987
00:45:30,441 --> 00:45:34,241
Speaker 3: many great memories, the birthday parties, that Good Friday Harbor

988
00:45:34,321 --> 00:45:38,281
Speaker 3: Cruisers DCM's Good Friday Harbor Cruse with legendary for ten years.

989
00:45:38,321 --> 00:45:41,361
Speaker 3: We would hire a boat because no club could be

990
00:45:41,441 --> 00:45:44,721
Speaker 3: open Good Friday back then, and we would invite our

991
00:45:44,841 --> 00:45:48,361
Speaker 3: core VIP members and the staff and we would get

992
00:45:48,401 --> 00:45:50,841
Speaker 3: on the boat and go out. I mean, look, I

993
00:45:50,881 --> 00:45:53,041
Speaker 3: don't There were a couple of cruises where, you know,

994
00:45:53,081 --> 00:45:55,001
Speaker 3: I'd walk on the boat, get a scotch and go

995
00:45:55,081 --> 00:45:58,361
Speaker 3: downstairs to the toilet and I would be chatting down

996
00:45:58,361 --> 00:46:01,361
Speaker 3: in the toilet of the boat, and then someone would

997
00:46:01,401 --> 00:46:03,641
Speaker 3: come down and go the cruise is finished, and I'm

998
00:46:03,681 --> 00:46:07,681
Speaker 3: still in the toilet talking and I'm like, it can't be.

999
00:46:08,121 --> 00:46:11,721
Speaker 1: It's a six hour cruise and they're like down there for.

1000
00:46:14,561 --> 00:46:20,001
Speaker 3: Six hours and I'm sitting up on the little lens

1001
00:46:20,121 --> 00:46:23,361
Speaker 3: chatting to people like holding court. You know. Those are

1002
00:46:23,361 --> 00:46:26,041
Speaker 3: the funny times where I'm like, oh, I just missed

1003
00:46:26,081 --> 00:46:26,761
Speaker 3: a whole cruise.

1004
00:46:26,801 --> 00:46:27,201
Speaker 4: How did that?

1005
00:46:28,321 --> 00:46:31,001
Speaker 3: You know? And then we'd go and all go to DCM,

1006
00:46:31,081 --> 00:46:33,401
Speaker 3: but it wasn't open, so we would just go in

1007
00:46:33,441 --> 00:46:35,201
Speaker 3: and have a few quiet staffy drinks.

1008
00:46:35,201 --> 00:46:37,401
Speaker 1: That turned into all kinds of crazies.

1009
00:46:37,881 --> 00:46:40,161
Speaker 3: I think I like the family aspect of it too,

1010
00:46:40,281 --> 00:46:43,361
Speaker 3: Like you know now, I even at the reunion parties

1011
00:46:43,361 --> 00:46:46,801
Speaker 3: that kind of started from John and Margaret and David

1012
00:46:46,841 --> 00:46:50,001
Speaker 3: inviting me back to start long We've now started doing

1013
00:46:50,001 --> 00:46:52,241
Speaker 3: them at the Imperial and I started running the Imperial.

1014
00:46:52,281 --> 00:46:54,401
Speaker 3: The first one, I think the major one we did

1015
00:46:54,401 --> 00:46:57,801
Speaker 3: after that was twenty thirteen and they were jam packed.

1016
00:46:57,841 --> 00:47:00,841
Speaker 3: People flew in for everywhere for that, and you would

1017
00:47:01,081 --> 00:47:03,201
Speaker 3: people would come up and go just my wife and

1018
00:47:03,241 --> 00:47:05,801
Speaker 3: I met her at DCM. And now the last one

1019
00:47:05,841 --> 00:47:10,041
Speaker 3: we did was last Marti Gras at the original d CM,

1020
00:47:10,721 --> 00:47:13,561
Speaker 3: and people are coming up, going, this is my daughter

1021
00:47:13,641 --> 00:47:15,801
Speaker 3: and I get to dance on a podium with us

1022
00:47:15,841 --> 00:47:19,561
Speaker 3: because I met her at your club. And then the

1023
00:47:19,641 --> 00:47:22,081
Speaker 3: daughter's like, oh look, and I heard mom and Dad

1024
00:47:22,121 --> 00:47:25,401
Speaker 3: had sex in the phone party, you know, because they

1025
00:47:25,441 --> 00:47:28,001
Speaker 3: were people. The phone parties were huge where we'd fill

1026
00:47:28,081 --> 00:47:31,121
Speaker 3: up the dance floor from foam, like turn it into

1027
00:47:31,121 --> 00:47:33,201
Speaker 3: a pool and fill it up and everyone would get

1028
00:47:33,241 --> 00:47:35,921
Speaker 3: in and dance, and apparently there was sex under the foam,

1029
00:47:35,961 --> 00:47:38,921
Speaker 3: and we'd had a few complaints underneath. I was talking

1030
00:47:38,921 --> 00:47:41,721
Speaker 3: to Ben Morris, the lighting manager who became one of

1031
00:47:41,721 --> 00:47:44,481
Speaker 3: the full managers at DCM, the other day and do

1032
00:47:44,561 --> 00:47:46,841
Speaker 3: you remember what was the name of the record store,

1033
00:47:46,841 --> 00:47:50,841
Speaker 3: Fish Records, was downstairs and the foam would leak and

1034
00:47:51,241 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 3: run in and there was thousands of CDs ruined from

1035
00:47:54,481 --> 00:47:57,641
Speaker 3: the phone running through the floorboards, and you know, things

1036
00:47:57,681 --> 00:47:59,841
Speaker 3: like that, I mean the great things too. Tim and

1037
00:47:59,881 --> 00:48:03,321
Speaker 3: Brook were even Ben reminded me that, you know, when

1038
00:48:03,321 --> 00:48:06,121
Speaker 3: we needed we were the first club in the Southern

1039
00:48:06,121 --> 00:48:09,001
Speaker 3: Hemisphere to have a lighting rig that moved on motors.

1040
00:48:09,201 --> 00:48:11,681
Speaker 3: You know, it was unheard of back then, but Tim

1041
00:48:11,761 --> 00:48:15,521
Speaker 3: and Brooke would want to get those kind of things in,

1042
00:48:15,681 --> 00:48:18,241
Speaker 3: you know, and new lighting desks that could be at

1043
00:48:18,241 --> 00:48:20,921
Speaker 3: the time were high tech and fifteen thousand dollars worth.

1044
00:48:20,921 --> 00:48:23,121
Speaker 3: And it was definitely the DJs too. There seemed to

1045
00:48:23,121 --> 00:48:25,761
Speaker 3: be a real change from just the essence of the

1046
00:48:25,801 --> 00:48:29,601
Speaker 3: club to the drags to then the DJs became the start.

1047
00:48:29,681 --> 00:48:33,321
Speaker 3: Originally it was the show good, but the DJs definitely

1048
00:48:33,361 --> 00:48:35,761
Speaker 3: became the name then and people would go for them,

1049
00:48:36,001 --> 00:48:38,241
Speaker 3: go for them, and it's still now. Look you know

1050
00:48:38,521 --> 00:48:42,281
Speaker 3: some of the DJs now, you know, iconic and legendary

1051
00:48:42,361 --> 00:48:43,201
Speaker 3: and any.

1052
00:48:43,001 --> 00:48:45,321
Speaker 4: Regrets, No, no regrets at all.

1053
00:48:45,881 --> 00:48:52,041
Speaker 2: No, I don't often you change, but what happened like

1054
00:48:52,201 --> 00:48:55,081
Speaker 2: going from your life to where you've worked, what you've done,

1055
00:48:56,161 --> 00:48:56,441
Speaker 2: happy with?

1056
00:48:56,601 --> 00:48:58,801
Speaker 3: Oh, look, you know I'd always say I wish I

1057
00:48:58,801 --> 00:49:01,401
Speaker 3: hadn't bought that car, or I wish and hadn't dated

1058
00:49:01,441 --> 00:49:03,961
Speaker 3: that man. Or I mean I'm a bit of a

1059
00:49:04,041 --> 00:49:06,801
Speaker 3: teetotal and now and sometimes I think I wish I

1060
00:49:06,841 --> 00:49:09,801
Speaker 3: had not drink as much maybe back then, but it

1061
00:49:09,841 --> 00:49:15,480
Speaker 3: was the lifestyle and you know, nothing huge, No, No,

1062
00:49:15,561 --> 00:49:18,001
Speaker 3: I think I think as a trans woman that was

1063
00:49:18,041 --> 00:49:21,081
Speaker 3: a showgirl, d CM was a perfect you know, I

1064
00:49:21,121 --> 00:49:24,041
Speaker 3: went to TAFE. Well, I did a promotions a marketing

1065
00:49:24,081 --> 00:49:26,241
Speaker 3: course at TAFE while I was at d CM and

1066
00:49:26,721 --> 00:49:29,641
Speaker 3: sharpened my skills. I just wasn't relying on going from

1067
00:49:29,641 --> 00:49:33,401
Speaker 3: a showgirl and writing deliveries in a book and learning

1068
00:49:33,441 --> 00:49:35,641
Speaker 3: a computer system because it was in the house. I

1069
00:49:35,681 --> 00:49:39,641
Speaker 3: went and studied and it helped me to better myself.

1070
00:49:39,681 --> 00:49:42,601
Speaker 2: So I think in general, no, well, before we go,

1071
00:49:43,041 --> 00:49:45,681
Speaker 2: describe yourself in one word for me, Penny.

1072
00:49:45,761 --> 00:49:53,081
Speaker 1: In one word, Wow, that's difficult. A few words, well,

1073
00:49:53,121 --> 00:49:53,721
Speaker 1: give me two works.

1074
00:49:53,761 --> 00:49:58,001
Speaker 3: It depends on I'm oil. I can be difficult, but

1075
00:49:58,081 --> 00:49:58,961
Speaker 3: I can be lovable.

1076
00:49:59,761 --> 00:50:03,081
Speaker 2: Okay. Before yeah, I'll ask you another question. Where did

1077
00:50:03,121 --> 00:50:05,041
Speaker 2: you get the name Penny Clifford? Where'd you get that from?

1078
00:50:05,801 --> 00:50:06,241
Speaker 1: Do you know?

1079
00:50:07,001 --> 00:50:10,601
Speaker 3: Back in the day, Well, Clifford was my family name,

1080
00:50:11,481 --> 00:50:15,441
Speaker 3: and drags and show girls had weird names.

1081
00:50:15,481 --> 00:50:16,041
Speaker 1: Back in the day.

1082
00:50:16,081 --> 00:50:19,801
Speaker 3: There was Tricksy low Mount and trees are green like

1083
00:50:19,881 --> 00:50:23,601
Speaker 3: trees are green, but Teresa Green Sarah Pax, which was

1084
00:50:23,641 --> 00:50:27,841
Speaker 3: a medication that everyone took. And so when I first

1085
00:50:27,921 --> 00:50:31,281
Speaker 3: started my first talent show, I was obsessed with the

1086
00:50:31,321 --> 00:50:33,721
Speaker 3: living Newton John. So I didn't even my first drag

1087
00:50:33,841 --> 00:50:37,361
Speaker 3: name was Olivia Neutron Bomb because all I would, and

1088
00:50:37,521 --> 00:50:40,241
Speaker 3: you know, I was tragic back then. Let me do

1089
00:50:40,401 --> 00:50:42,921
Speaker 3: blond Wig, blue eyes, shadow you. I've got a photo

1090
00:50:42,921 --> 00:50:46,281
Speaker 3: of it, and I laugh at it now, but and

1091
00:50:46,361 --> 00:50:49,081
Speaker 3: I would and at Balmaintown Hall Hotel. I would just

1092
00:50:49,121 --> 00:50:52,441
Speaker 3: do you know Alvy Newton John Songs and think I

1093
00:50:52,521 --> 00:50:55,321
Speaker 3: was fabulous. It was very funny. And I met Tricksy

1094
00:50:55,441 --> 00:50:57,521
Speaker 3: and she said that's a stupid name. You can't have that.

1095
00:50:57,761 --> 00:51:02,161
Speaker 3: And everyone had weird names, and so she went, I

1096
00:51:02,201 --> 00:51:06,281
Speaker 3: think you should have Penny Trait and I was like okay,

1097
00:51:06,961 --> 00:51:12,081
Speaker 3: and she would introduce me is miss Penetrate and then

1098
00:51:12,121 --> 00:51:14,801
Speaker 3: if she was drunk, you know, Tricksy on a microphone

1099
00:51:14,841 --> 00:51:16,921
Speaker 3: to go and here's miss Pennytrate.

1100
00:51:16,481 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: My bowly area coming after you. I always remember that thinking,

1101
00:51:20,601 --> 00:51:23,041
Speaker 1: oh God, what are we going to know? But Pete.

1102
00:51:23,401 --> 00:51:25,721
Speaker 3: But during that was at the early started patches, so

1103
00:51:25,801 --> 00:51:28,601
Speaker 3: people just knew me as Penny, and suddenly people were

1104
00:51:28,601 --> 00:51:31,441
Speaker 3: calling me Penny and and I was like, okay, well

1105
00:51:31,641 --> 00:51:32,481
Speaker 3: that name stuck.

1106
00:51:32,601 --> 00:51:34,201
Speaker 1: I mean obviously I dropped the trade.

1107
00:51:34,441 --> 00:51:38,521
Speaker 3: Yeah, and so it just became a natural progression to

1108
00:51:38,561 --> 00:51:41,001
Speaker 3: add a family name with it. When I changed my

1109
00:51:41,121 --> 00:51:43,721
Speaker 3: name by deep Hole in nineteen eighty one or something,

1110
00:51:43,761 --> 00:51:45,601
Speaker 3: it became Penny Clifford.

1111
00:51:45,601 --> 00:51:50,361
Speaker 1: And it's still wow, man, still with me. Maybe I

1112
00:51:50,441 --> 00:51:52,121
Speaker 1: should have been Amanda. I don't know.

1113
00:51:53,561 --> 00:51:54,121
Speaker 4: I like Penny.

1114
00:51:54,121 --> 00:51:56,441
Speaker 1: I like it's worked for me all these years.

1115
00:51:56,801 --> 00:51:58,081
Speaker 4: Well, thank you Penny for coming on.

1116
00:51:58,201 --> 00:52:00,521
Speaker 1: Thank you Neil. It's been lovely chatting love this.

1117
00:52:00,641 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 4: It's been worth the wait.

1118
00:52:02,681 --> 00:52:03,121
Speaker 1: Thank you.

1119
00:52:03,321 --> 00:52:05,681
Speaker 3: Well, it's lovely to see your face and guns and

1120
00:52:06,561 --> 00:52:08,201
Speaker 3: all of that so I can take you back to

1121
00:52:08,241 --> 00:52:09,801
Speaker 3: twenty years ago and flirt with you.

1122
00:52:09,801 --> 00:52:10,641
Speaker 1: All over again.

1123
00:52:12,041 --> 00:52:13,241
Speaker 4: Thanks paid, Thanks now,