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Speaker 1: Approche production at the time too. I was really young.

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Speaker 2: I was like twenty four years old when I started

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Speaker 2: hanging out those clubs. And at that time, and at

4
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Speaker 2: least in Oregon, a lot of these guys were you know,

5
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Speaker 2: fifties and sixties. So not only were pretty active on

6
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Speaker 2: the streets and you know, we're pretty we had a

7
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Speaker 2: pretty good reputation for the violence, but we were also young,

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Speaker 2: and I think they were excited thinking that we were

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Speaker 2: kind of that next generation that could keep the club

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Speaker 2: going and you know, bring around more young guys and

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Speaker 2: stuff like that. So I think there was a lot

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Speaker 2: at play there.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, how how long were we in the club?

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Speaker 4: Full?

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Speaker 2: I was a Mongol for fourteen years. So the first

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Speaker 2: club I hung out with was called the Outsiders out

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Speaker 2: of Portland, and I was with them for a few months.

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Speaker 2: I ended up joining the Vagos when I was in

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Speaker 2: Nevada and I was with them for close to two years.

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Speaker 2: And then I was in the Mongols for fourteen.

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Speaker 3: Okay, but you would only presidents for the Mongols yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was a chapter president and numerous different chapters,

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Speaker 2: and then I was a recent regional boss for the

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Speaker 2: Mongols for quite almost ten years.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 4: So when when when did you become presidents of the

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Speaker 4: mongo So how long how long were you were in

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Speaker 4: the club fall before you actually came.

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Speaker 1: Man, I went straight to it.

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Speaker 2: So when I started, when I started the Mongols, and

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Speaker 2: there was no Mongols in Oregon. So when I decided

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Speaker 2: I wanted to be in the Mongols, I had met

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Speaker 2: some It was a club that I thought was a

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Speaker 2: good fit for me. They had a lot of younger guys,

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Speaker 2: you know, more Hispanic guys that were kind of different

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Speaker 2: than the other main main clubs that were in the area.

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Speaker 2: And I didn't want to join any of the local clubs,

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Speaker 2: so I wanted to start a chapter of the Mongols.

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Speaker 2: So I went out. I flew out to Florida and

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Speaker 2: I sat down with them and met them and spent

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Speaker 2: some time with them, and they gave me the opportunity

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Speaker 2: to start my own chapter. So when we started in Oregon,

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Speaker 2: there was just the six of us in the whole state,

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Speaker 2: and we were all young kids that really didn't know

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Speaker 2: what we were doing. So I, you know, I just

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Speaker 2: kind of took charge because I was what needed to happen,

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Speaker 2: or it was, you know, it was our waly real

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Speaker 2: option at the time.

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Speaker 3: Did you think that came with a lot of pressure.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely?

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Speaker 2: Man, So not only you know, did I not necessarily

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Speaker 2: know what I was doing, but I didn't know much

53
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Speaker 2: about the biker scene yet, you know, so I'm still

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Speaker 2: like learning as I go with that. And then to

55
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Speaker 2: add to it, none of the organ clubs wanted us there,

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Speaker 2: so that you know, I hate to use the term war,

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Speaker 2: but it was pretty much a war zone because all

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Speaker 2: these other clubs were trying to stop us from growing,

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Speaker 2: trying to kick us out of the state. So, you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm naive to the club world. I'm brand new. We're

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Speaker 2: at war with everybody, and you know, there's six of

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Speaker 2: us and we're all like twenty year old kids.

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Speaker 4: So how did how did you deal with that? How

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Speaker 4: did you deal with the wall that started? You know,

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Speaker 4: like they're trying to kick you out. They don't want

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Speaker 4: you to start, so how and you're not You're not

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Speaker 4: really like you're naive to the whole bike scene, So

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Speaker 4: how did you deal with that?

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Speaker 2: I think, you know that the skin it scene helped

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Speaker 2: me a lot because I had that street level of

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Speaker 2: violence and kind of that you know, street mentality, and

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Speaker 2: so the clubs in Oregon. You know, they're they're very

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Speaker 2: serious clubs. They've been around for a long time. They

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Speaker 2: were definitely very formidable foes. But they also had been

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Speaker 2: in peacetime for many years, right, So a lot of

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Speaker 2: these guys were comfortable going to the bar one at

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Speaker 2: a time, or you know, not not you know, being

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Speaker 2: in groups or security wasn't on point. And I really

79
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Speaker 2: took advantage of that, so not assarly even attacking them,

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Speaker 2: but just showing what the weaknesses were and essentially made

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Speaker 2: it a point where, you know, there may not be

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Speaker 2: very many of us, but if we're gonna have beef,

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Speaker 2: there's gonna be issues everywhere, not just when you're in

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Speaker 2: a group and at a bar. So I think I

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Speaker 2: really played to the assets and the stuff that I learned,

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Speaker 2: you know, on the streets, doing the skinhead.

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Speaker 4: Of stuff, without putting more pressure on you with the

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Speaker 4: cops and all like that. Were they giving you a

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Speaker 4: hard time for that? Were they were like, yeah, I didn't.

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Speaker 2: So, you know, I didn't know a lot about that

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Speaker 2: part of the world. I didn't know anything about confidential

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Speaker 2: informants back then. You know, I had you know, read

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Speaker 2: about undercover agents and stuff like that, but I was

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Speaker 2: a pretty naive kid, and really outside of the violence piece,

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Speaker 2: we weren't really doing anything illegal. So in my mind,

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Speaker 2: I couldn't really figure out, oh, cops aren't going to

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Speaker 2: waste their time with us, you know, we're not selling drugs,

98
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Speaker 2: weren't hustle money, and so I was pretty naive to that.

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Speaker 2: And in fact, the FBI came to my house really

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Speaker 2: early on and let me know about the clubs that

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Speaker 2: had a contract out of my life, which I kind

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Speaker 2: of blew off because I didn't believe in that type

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Speaker 2: of stuff at the time, but looking back, it was

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Speaker 2: probably pretty serious. And then you know, there's ATF was

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Speaker 2: getting involved. But we had some informants in our chapter,

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Speaker 2: in the very first chapter of the Mongols in Oregon

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Speaker 2: that you know, I was obviously unaware that they were informants.

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Speaker 2: So we were getting followed a lot by the ATF.

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Speaker 2: They were still in that big you know, if you've

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Speaker 2: heard of Operation Black Ray and that hit in two

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Speaker 2: thousand and eight. I joined in two thousand and seven,

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Speaker 2: so we're still like in the middle of that big

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Speaker 2: investigation unbeknownst to us. So the big raids came down

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Speaker 2: in O eight So that first year in the Mongols

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Speaker 2: was pretty crazy for me.

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Speaker 1: Man.

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Speaker 2: You know, I started in an area where they didn't

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Speaker 2: want us to be. The Mongols were having issues with

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Speaker 2: other clubs and other organizations nationally. I got arrested for

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Speaker 2: chasing some cops that were trespassing on my lawn. I

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Speaker 2: didn't know that the yeah cops, I actually yeah, So,

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Speaker 2: I mean I had, you know, a million dollar bail.

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Speaker 2: I thought they were trying to get me for a

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Speaker 2: conspiracy to commit kidnapping and attempted kidnapping on these federal officers.

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Speaker 2: And then when I got out of jail, I was

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Speaker 2: on non association, not allowed to hang out the club,

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Speaker 2: and I kept violating that.

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Speaker 1: And then on top of that, we get raided in.

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Speaker 2: Two thousand and eight, and like you know, sixty percent

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Speaker 2: of the club got busted and went to federal jail.

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Speaker 2: So that first year in the club was crazy. I mean,

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Speaker 2: the amount of stuff that happened in the first year

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Speaker 2: was pretty wild to think about.

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Speaker 4: You know, because you were starting off in a in

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Speaker 4: a in a city or a town where you went

136
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Speaker 4: wanted how did you get people to join the club?

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Speaker 2: You know, that was a tough part, right because most

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Speaker 2: people want to join the motorcycle club, you know, because

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Speaker 2: they want to have fun, ride motorcycles and party, or

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Speaker 2: they want to be in the big you know, the

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Speaker 2: big tough group or the guys good names. So there

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Speaker 2: wasn't much of a sales pitch, right like, hey, yeah,

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Speaker 2: come hang with us and you can get shot at.

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of it was the way we

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Speaker 1: carried ourselves.

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Speaker 3: You know.

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Speaker 2: I ran a specific program that we were always together

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Speaker 2: in public. You know, we were polite to people, We

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Speaker 2: weren't dicks, we didn't like run people off. I think

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Speaker 2: we were kind of even though we had all those issues,

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Speaker 2: I think we offered a pretty good alternative to the

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Speaker 2: local clubs. The local clubs were really that old school,

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Speaker 2: you know, kind of bearded biker mentality, and we were

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Speaker 2: we were like the younger kids listening to punk rock

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Speaker 2: and you know, had a lot of tattoos and so,

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Speaker 2: and you know, we partied, We had pretty girls with

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Speaker 2: us and stuff. So I think we still attracted people

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Speaker 2: even though the danger levels that were there.

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Speaker 4: Did you take control of any newcomers or people who

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Speaker 4: were in the club got misbehaved and gave the club

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Speaker 4: a bad name.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I was really strict from from early on

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Speaker 2: to all the way through, like regional leadership and stuff.

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Speaker 1: It was really strict with how members act in public.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: The way I look at it is a lot of

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Speaker 2: these clubs come out and they bully people at bars

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Speaker 2: or you know, there's the no colors policy because of

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Speaker 2: the way I act in public. And I've always wanted

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Speaker 2: to be welcome somewhere, you know, I always wanted to

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Speaker 2: be that guy. I never wanted to walk into a

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Speaker 2: bar and then got ship models here and be all

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Speaker 2: bummed out, and then I'm feeling like, you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: sitting there being a bully. I always wanted them to

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Speaker 2: be excited we were there, not just that that these

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Speaker 2: guys could be on our jury or anything else.

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Speaker 1: Right like, they're the local public.

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Speaker 2: And so we always made it a point to make

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Speaker 2: sure that we're very polite and respectful in public. We

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Speaker 2: didn't take any shit, obviously, but we gave people passes.

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Speaker 2: We didn't start shit. We try to educate before there

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Speaker 2: was any sort of violence or issues. And it got

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Speaker 2: to the point where we were pretty well respected in

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Speaker 2: our area. So you know, it paid off in the

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Speaker 2: long run. But it was pretty counterintuitive to theal like

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Speaker 2: the initial biker scene, right, or what people used to

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Speaker 2: think of bikers. But I also think that's what attracted

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Speaker 2: new people to join, as they saw that we can

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Speaker 2: go out without being the puffy chested, tough guys. And

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Speaker 2: we still had the reputation for being tough, but we weren't,

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Speaker 2: you know, out there like faking it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Who was your big of rival?

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Speaker 2: So at the time in Oregon it was the Gypsy Jokers,

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Speaker 2: which you know, the Mongoles ended up being pretty cool

195
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Speaker 2: with over the years, you know, just because we'd stay

196
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Speaker 2: there fifteen years. I mean, the Mongol's been in Oregon

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Speaker 2: now for sixteen years, but initially that was one of

198
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Speaker 2: the big ones. But the Mongol's biggest rivals is the

199
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Speaker 2: Hell's Angels and has been since you know, the seventies.

200
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'm still it's now.

201
00:07:41,241 --> 00:07:42,521
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh yeah, absolutely.

202
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Speaker 2: There's been some times where they've tried to work things

203
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Speaker 2: out and kind of had some peace talks, but it's

204
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Speaker 2: never really slowed down.

205
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Speaker 4: Yeah, in two thousand, that's in two thousand and eight,

206
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Speaker 4: that was the that was the that was what you've

207
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Speaker 4: just spoke about, now, isn't it about what you attempted

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Speaker 4: to run down to investigations or something like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So I lived on like one hundred and fifty

211
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Speaker 2: acres out in the country, and back then people things

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00:08:04,841 --> 00:08:07,521
Speaker 2: were own newspapers and stuff. And the newspaper just did

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00:08:07,521 --> 00:08:10,001
Speaker 2: this big article about the Mongols starting an Oregon and

214
00:08:10,281 --> 00:08:12,001
Speaker 2: talking about how all these other clubs were out to

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Speaker 2: get us. So put everyone kind of on high alert,

216
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Speaker 2: right high security, and at that right at that day,

217
00:08:18,081 --> 00:08:20,161
Speaker 2: that same day, there was an all black suv coming

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Speaker 2: up my driveway and I was in a pickup truck

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Speaker 2: heading towards them, and they took off and they were running,

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Speaker 2: so I figured out i'd follow them, and I followed

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Speaker 2: them back into town, and they ended up going to

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Speaker 2: the Gypsy Jokers clubhouse and parking out front, so you

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Speaker 2: can imagine that I assumed that that was an enemy

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Speaker 2: of some sort. And then they got back in the

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Speaker 2: road and started heading back towards my house. So I

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Speaker 2: followed them back in the opposite direction, and I ended

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Speaker 2: up following for close to an hour. And the thing

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Speaker 2: is is they would never let me get next to

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Speaker 2: them because they didn't now looking back, they were law enforcement.

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Speaker 2: They didn't want me to see who they were. So

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Speaker 2: I phoned some of the other guys and said, hey,

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Speaker 2: you know, they recognized my car, maybe they won't recognize yours.

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Speaker 2: And I got some other guys to meet me on

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Speaker 2: the road and just essentially the plan was just to

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Speaker 2: get up next to them and see if we can

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Speaker 2: see who they are. But you know, they the way

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Speaker 2: they they played it is we boxed them in and

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Speaker 2: we tried to pull them over, and you know, because

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Speaker 2: we made them go in a direction they didn't want

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Speaker 2: to go, they considered that kidnapping.

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Speaker 1: So it was a pretty uh, pretty heavy charge. You know,

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Speaker 1: it was all over the news.

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Speaker 3: You know, Yeah, I've seen that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, what is that?

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Speaker 3: Is that the same charge when you.

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Speaker 4: Got the year you're supposed to you were charged and

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Speaker 4: to go in for a year, but then you you

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Speaker 4: came out within twenty four hours.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so I was, yes, that's the same thing. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I was there.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, it was a million dollar bail on

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Speaker 2: some pretty heavy felony charges, right, But I got found

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Speaker 2: not guilty of all the major charges. I was only

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Speaker 2: found guilty of reckless driving and menacing, which were like

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Speaker 2: the misdemeanors and the jails were so overcrowded, and I

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Speaker 2: think they were trying to make a political point that,

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Speaker 2: you know, they have to let all these bad guys

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Speaker 2: go because they don't have the funding. So a day

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Speaker 2: after being sentenced to a year, I got kicked out.

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Speaker 2: So I was still there for over two months. But

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Speaker 2: I was there for a day after being sentenced, and

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Speaker 2: they commuted my sentence to community service road crew, so

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Speaker 2: I'd like check in every day and you know, go

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Speaker 2: clean up the highways and stuff like that for a

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Speaker 2: couple of months, but I didn't have to be in

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Speaker 2: county jail for a year, so that was I ended

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Speaker 2: up doing close to a year though honestly, because I

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Speaker 2: kept violating my probation, I was not allowed to hang

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Speaker 2: out with the club, so I had that non association

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Speaker 2: and every time I violated, I'd go back for a

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Speaker 2: month or two at a time, every time I got caught.

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Speaker 1: So within a few years, Oh.

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Speaker 3: How how was that being a president's and you kind.

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Speaker 1: It was social because I was.

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Speaker 2: I was not allowed to associate my twin brother either,

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Speaker 2: and it's something that we appealed and took back to court,

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Speaker 2: and they said even though he was my identical twin

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Speaker 2: because I was in leadership. They were worried that I

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Speaker 2: was still going to like run the club through him,

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Speaker 2: so I wasn't allowed to even be around my brother.

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Speaker 2: And like I said, we had informants which we didn't

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Speaker 2: know about at the time. So pretty much every time

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Speaker 2: I hung out, they found out and I'd get arrested

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Speaker 2: and just sent back to jail.

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Speaker 4: You never tried to just you and your brother just

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Speaker 4: go like, just pretend to be me and I'll pretend

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Speaker 4: to you.

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Speaker 1: You know what we did that once, no joke.

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Speaker 2: We were having an issue with the Hell's Angels in

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Speaker 2: Spokane and I drove up there overnight, late at night

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Speaker 2: to try and you know, see what we could do

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Speaker 2: and get the guys together. And I'm having this meeting

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Speaker 2: and the AT or the FBI rated this building we're

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Speaker 2: at and I was hiding out in the basement.

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Speaker 1: There's nowhere to go, and.

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Speaker 2: I'm like, fuck, I'm screwed, And they said, hey, we

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Speaker 2: know Jeremy's down there, which is my twin brother. So

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Speaker 2: I called my brother because he was at home in Oregon.

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Speaker 2: I said, don't go outside and don't answer the phone.

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Speaker 2: You're in Washington because I'm not even allowed to lead

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Speaker 2: the state at the time. You know, so that was

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Speaker 2: one of the only times that played off where they

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Speaker 2: thought I was my brother.

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Speaker 3: I want to listen to the episode in full. Click

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Speaker 3: the link in the description.