WEBVTT - A new ‘easier’ English test for migrants

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<v Speaker 1>From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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<v Speaker 1>It's Friday, August eight, twenty twenty five. Donald Trump has

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<v Speaker 1>slapped a fifty percent tariff on India. That's because he

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<v Speaker 1>says they're buying oil from Russia and that's made it

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<v Speaker 1>very tense around one of Australia's most important alliances, The

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<v Speaker 1>CORD due to meet in India later this year, Anthony

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<v Speaker 1>Albnezi says he won't discuss Palestinian statehood with Trump. The

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<v Speaker 1>PM says the decision to recognize Palestine is one for

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<v Speaker 1>the Australian government alone. Those stories alive right now at

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<v Speaker 1>the Australian dot com dot au. The English language test

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<v Speaker 1>for would be Australians is about to get easier. The

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<v Speaker 1>opposition says the government has lost control of the migration

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<v Speaker 1>system and that's helping drive up the cost of housing. Today,

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<v Speaker 1>reporter Noah Yim and I take the test.

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<v Speaker 2>I am doing the tofil practice speaking tests.

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<v Speaker 1>Noah Yim is a journalist in the Australian's Canbra bureau.

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<v Speaker 2>Some people enjoy taking risks and trying new things. Some

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<v Speaker 2>people enjoy taking risks and trying new things. Others are

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<v Speaker 2>not adventurous. Others are not adventurous.

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<v Speaker 1>As you can hear, Noah has no problems with English.

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<v Speaker 1>English is actually his second language. Noah migrated to Australia

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<v Speaker 1>from Korea as a kid, but we asked him to

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<v Speaker 1>take the English language test that migrants to Australia need

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<v Speaker 1>to sit because the test is going through a big change.

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<v Speaker 2>In paragraph one, each of the following is mentioned as

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<v Speaker 2>a feature of the city of Teo Tua Khan between

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<v Speaker 2>AD one point fifty and seven hundred except a regularly

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<v Speaker 2>arranged streets. B. Several administrative centers spread across the city.

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<v Speaker 2>C many manufacturing workshops.

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<v Speaker 1>English language proficiency is big business in Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>I think the answer is B. Several administrative centers spread

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<v Speaker 2>across the city.

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<v Speaker 1>We welcomed two hundred and ten thousand permanent migrants in

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<v Speaker 1>twenty twenty three twenty four, plus another two hundred and

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<v Speaker 1>seven thousand international students who came in temporarily. Noah, we

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<v Speaker 1>had you take this test. It seemed quite hard.

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<v Speaker 2>It was quite hard, and honestly, I'm not sure that

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<v Speaker 2>I did all that well.

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<v Speaker 1>And many of them had to sit a test like this.

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<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed hearing you learn all about Taya Tua Khan.

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<v Speaker 2>I've never been to Tao TiO Khan, and I want

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<v Speaker 2>to go home day now.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you going to be at the pub tonight telling

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<v Speaker 1>your friends all about it?

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe now?

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<v Speaker 1>The English langue which entry test for Australia is famously tough.

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<v Speaker 1>A few years ago a friend of mine, a tertiary

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<v Speaker 1>educated native English speaker from the United Kingdom, failed one

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<v Speaker 1>of the tests twice, partly because she was asked to

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<v Speaker 1>write an essay about nuclear power, something she had absolutely

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<v Speaker 1>no idea about.

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<v Speaker 2>That was on one of.

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<v Speaker 1>The proficiency standards used by the Department of Immigration called

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<v Speaker 1>the Pearson's English Test, which, despite its rather quaint name,

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<v Speaker 1>strikes terror into the heart of would be Australians. There's

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<v Speaker 1>a whole cottage industry of how tos and coaching clinics

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<v Speaker 1>like this one on YouTube.

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<v Speaker 3>Pay attention to the verb tenses I've used throughout the essay.

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<v Speaker 3>There's a mix of present, simple present, continuous present, perfect future, simple,

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<v Speaker 3>active and passive.

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<v Speaker 1>In this sample test, the host asks me to analyze

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<v Speaker 1>a three hundred word text.

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<v Speaker 3>Your job is to summarize that tax down into a

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<v Speaker 3>single sentence.

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<v Speaker 1>The text starts, why has the Leaning Tower of Pisa

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<v Speaker 1>in Italy survived the strong earthquakes that have hit the

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<v Speaker 1>region since the Middle Ages. The answer, I think is

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<v Speaker 1>that scientists have discovered that the very tall and stiff

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<v Speaker 1>shape of the tower, combined with the very soft soil

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<v Speaker 1>beneath it, means it is protected from earthquake vibrations. I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like I really learned something there, Noah, but I

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<v Speaker 1>had to really concentrate. And English is my first language.

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<v Speaker 1>It feels like Australia has set the bar quite high.

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<v Speaker 2>In some ways. It sounds like it has, but to

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<v Speaker 2>be fair, there are about five different levels of English

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<v Speaker 2>proficiency that we set as benchmarks to get other specific

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<v Speaker 2>types of visas, and the lowest is called the functional

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<v Speaker 2>English Language proficiency that's set quite low on various events.

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<v Speaker 2>The sounds like they're pretty well passed the first and

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<v Speaker 2>second stages of Duolingo for English, and to be fair,

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<v Speaker 2>the pretty advanced level in terms of languages that you

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<v Speaker 2>don't know. But I suspect we have a pretty hard

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<v Speaker 2>time having conversations beyond superficial things with people who can

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<v Speaker 2>only speak English to this level.

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<v Speaker 1>And then tell me about the higher levels of tests

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<v Speaker 1>that Australia asks people to take. Who takes them and

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<v Speaker 1>what kinds of things do they have to demonstrate that

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<v Speaker 1>they can do so at.

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<v Speaker 2>The highest level, which is a superior level according to

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<v Speaker 2>the legislation, we get to a pretty high level. So

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<v Speaker 2>these people are who can read fully comprehend longer texts.

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<v Speaker 2>This is conversational English. This is a level of English

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<v Speaker 2>that we would use every day. This is a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>advanced level of English. And they can start making complex arguments,

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<v Speaker 2>complex subjects, complaints and structures. So you know, pretty well

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<v Speaker 2>able to engage in a conversation at the pub or

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<v Speaker 2>on a train, or you know, even perhaps in a

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<v Speaker 2>lecture theater.

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<v Speaker 1>Were you surprised, Noah, by the level of proficiency that

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<v Speaker 1>you were required to demonstrate in this sample test that

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<v Speaker 1>you've taken.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, I was English is my second language actually, and

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<v Speaker 2>I felt like I've been tested again.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you feel like that this is being adhered to,

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<v Speaker 1>that everybody who's living here in Australia is actually meeting

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<v Speaker 1>this functional level of English.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, as you said, even native English speakers sometimes

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<v Speaker 2>have trouble with this. So I suspect that for some

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<v Speaker 2>of the higher level this would be. This is the

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<v Speaker 2>robust test from the looks of it. At the higher level,

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<v Speaker 2>you need to be able to speak at a pretty

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<v Speaker 2>advanced level. So no, this is probably a challenging test

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<v Speaker 2>for most people to take. And whether every Australian can,

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<v Speaker 2>hand on heart say they meet the highest threshold of

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<v Speaker 2>this English test, I suspect most can't.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>I noticed on Reddit quite a few conversations about people

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<v Speaker 1>strategizing about how to pass these tests, and a lot

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<v Speaker 1>of them were Americans or people from the United Kingdom,

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<v Speaker 1>native English speakers who were very daunted about this prospect

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<v Speaker 1>and very concerned about whether they'd actually be able to

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<v Speaker 1>pass on What do you think about that, Noah, as

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<v Speaker 1>a matter of policy, if we are making it so

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<v Speaker 1>difficult for people to pass an English language test, even

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<v Speaker 1>if they are native English speakers, is your sense that

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<v Speaker 1>we might have said it a bit too high.

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<v Speaker 2>Perhaps we do have specific clauses here about other ways

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<v Speaker 2>that people can pass the English requirement for the leaders,

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<v Speaker 2>So for example, if they did schooling in the US

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<v Speaker 2>or in the UK or Canada or places like that,

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<v Speaker 2>we do just let them in and we assume that

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<v Speaker 2>they're sufficiently proficient at English. But if people in the

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<v Speaker 2>US and UK who grew up with English, whom English

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<v Speaker 2>are their only language, are really worried about these tests, well, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>then these tests are far too hot.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming up more of my chat with Noah Yim.

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<v Speaker 2>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>The reason we're talking about this is that the tests

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<v Speaker 1>are changing. Tell me about the changes.

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<v Speaker 2>So the Australian government had released regulation this week that

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<v Speaker 2>lowers the standard for the functional proficiency requirements for English

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<v Speaker 2>on a whole bunch of tests, specifically on two tests,

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<v Speaker 2>the Toffel and the PTE. So the minimum mark that

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<v Speaker 2>you need to achieve in those tests to be able

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<v Speaker 2>to be granted to be eligible for the visas that

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<v Speaker 2>require that specific level that's been lowered.

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<v Speaker 1>The visas where functional English is required include training visas

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<v Speaker 1>where you're advancing your professional skills and work in holiday

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<v Speaker 1>visas where people aged eighteen to thirty can come in

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<v Speaker 1>for a year up to three times, having a holiday

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<v Speaker 1>and spending some of the time working in specified sectors

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<v Speaker 1>like fruit picking, avatoire work jobs in Northern Australia like

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<v Speaker 1>hospitality in construction or disaster recovery in regional areas.

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<v Speaker 2>So, according to Pearson, who's one of the organizations that

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<v Speaker 2>administers one of these tests. The previous mark would have

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<v Speaker 2>meant that someone can understand sentences and use frequently use expressions,

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<v Speaker 2>and they can also communicate in simple and routine tasks

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<v Speaker 2>requiring a simple and direct exchange of information on familiar

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<v Speaker 2>or routine matters. But the new requirement by the Australian

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<v Speaker 2>government for MARX means that this person now only needs

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<v Speaker 2>to meet the criteria of someone who can understand and

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<v Speaker 2>use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases and can

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<v Speaker 2>interact in a simple way, provided the other person talks

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<v Speaker 2>slowly and clearly and as prepared to help. So that's

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<v Speaker 2>really going from someone who sounds like they can get

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<v Speaker 2>through daily life reasonably, well maybe with a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of frection. Now the standard's going down, according to Pearson,

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<v Speaker 2>to at least someone who might need a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of help in assistance from the public. So it's not

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<v Speaker 2>an insignificant dropped out according to person standards. The Coalition

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<v Speaker 2>has certainly hit out hard at this opposition. Home a

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<v Speaker 2>Fair spokesman Andrew Hasty told us that the current level

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<v Speaker 2>of migration to Australia is unsustainable and that the labor

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<v Speaker 2>government instead of moderating immigration quote the minister is lowering

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<v Speaker 2>minimum English proficiency standards end quote, and that the migration

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<v Speaker 2>system is going to get out of control and it

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<v Speaker 2>is only going to get worse. He says that Australians

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<v Speaker 2>are worse off under Labour's immigration policy. Our infrastructure is

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<v Speaker 2>under pressure, essential services are stretched thin, and young Australians

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<v Speaker 2>are locked out of the housing market. Social cohesion is freeing.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, this was a line that the Opposition worked really

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<v Speaker 1>hard during the election campaign, that they were going to

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<v Speaker 1>get migration under control, that migration was one of the

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<v Speaker 1>reasons why young people in Australia were struggling to buy

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<v Speaker 1>a house. It looks from what Andrew Hasty is saying

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<v Speaker 1>as though they think that's a message that's working for them.

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<v Speaker 2>After the resounding election defeat, we've seen the Opposition undertake

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<v Speaker 2>an entire policy review, but there are some parts of

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<v Speaker 2>their agenda which they really wanted to drive the states

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<v Speaker 2>into the ground and say, but this is what the

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<v Speaker 2>Liberal Party, even despite the election loss, stands for. And

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<v Speaker 2>it looks like what Andrew Hasty is doing here is

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<v Speaker 2>repeating that line that Peter Dunnant often deployed during the

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<v Speaker 2>election about immigration.

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<v Speaker 1>So Noah, why is the government making these changes?

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<v Speaker 2>Then when I talked to immigration expert Abil Ruci, what

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<v Speaker 2>he told me is that this must be the outcome

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<v Speaker 2>of a long term review where they're trying to align

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<v Speaker 2>the relative performance in each various English language tests to

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<v Speaker 2>each other. So the IELTS is the benchmark, That's what

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<v Speaker 2>he told me. IOLT stands for International English Language Testing System,

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<v Speaker 2>and the other two big tests, the Test of English

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<v Speaker 2>as a Foreign Language or TOEFL test and the Pearsons

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<v Speaker 2>Test they had their minimum standards lowered in the last

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<v Speaker 2>regulation change.

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<v Speaker 1>How do you think we've ended up in a situation

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<v Speaker 1>where we've got multiple tests and this what seems like

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<v Speaker 1>a very complex system to administer.

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<v Speaker 2>It is a very complex system. There's a whole bunch

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<v Speaker 2>of other tests as well, or with various acronyms, all

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<v Speaker 2>with various testing regimes, and I've read reports that there

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<v Speaker 2>are other tests and other organizations trying to get onto

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<v Speaker 2>this list as well. All of these are private providers,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, Pearson's very famous educational publisher. I think a

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<v Speaker 2>whole bunch of the associated with the university that part

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<v Speaker 2>as well. Either all private tests not administered by government.

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<v Speaker 2>You sit down and take their test, and then you

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<v Speaker 2>submit those scores to various government agencies. It seems like

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<v Speaker 2>a pre elucrative market.

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<v Speaker 1>It's classic, isn't it. When you, as an English speaker,

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<v Speaker 1>dip your toe into trying to understand something like the

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<v Speaker 1>Department of Immigration, you just get a sense of how

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<v Speaker 1>impenetrable it must be to people who aren't very confident

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<v Speaker 1>with English.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's right, and how expensive it is as well

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<v Speaker 2>to apply for some of these visas. You can understand

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<v Speaker 2>why migration agents are such a big industry. Prospective migrants

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<v Speaker 2>into Australia often take retake these tests multiple times, spending

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<v Speaker 2>one hundreds, even thousands in the process, and then on

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<v Speaker 2>top of that, they may just have to relent and

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<v Speaker 2>go to a migration agent instead of going through the

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<v Speaker 2>process themselves, which also costs a lot of money. Just

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<v Speaker 2>because Australia's migration system is so complex, there are so

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<v Speaker 2>many visa classes costs attached to most of those visas

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<v Speaker 2>as well, so it's a really impenetrable process.

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<v Speaker 1>Noah Yim is a journalist in the Australian's Federal Parliamentary

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<v Speaker 1>Press Gallery Bureau. You can read his journalism and all

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<v Speaker 1>the rest of our coverage of politics anytime at the

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<v Speaker 1>Australian dot com dot au