1
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,640
Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

2
00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:13,320
Speaker 1: It's Friday, August eight, twenty twenty five. Donald Trump has

3
00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:16,759
Speaker 1: slapped a fifty percent tariff on India. That's because he

4
00:00:16,880 --> 00:00:20,119
Speaker 1: says they're buying oil from Russia and that's made it

5
00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,599
Speaker 1: very tense around one of Australia's most important alliances, The

6
00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:31,280
Speaker 1: CORD due to meet in India later this year, Anthony

7
00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:35,559
Speaker 1: Albnezi says he won't discuss Palestinian statehood with Trump. The

8
00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,879
Speaker 1: PM says the decision to recognize Palestine is one for

9
00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,879
Speaker 1: the Australian government alone. Those stories alive right now at

10
00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:50,560
Speaker 1: the Australian dot com dot au. The English language test

11
00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:53,880
Speaker 1: for would be Australians is about to get easier. The

12
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: opposition says the government has lost control of the migration

13
00:00:57,400 --> 00:01:01,400
Speaker 1: system and that's helping drive up the cost of housing. Today,

14
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,520
Speaker 1: reporter Noah Yim and I take the test.

15
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,800
Speaker 2: I am doing the tofil practice speaking tests.

16
00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:20,400
Speaker 1: Noah Yim is a journalist in the Australian's Canbra bureau.

17
00:01:21,280 --> 00:01:24,640
Speaker 2: Some people enjoy taking risks and trying new things. Some

18
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,880
Speaker 2: people enjoy taking risks and trying new things. Others are

19
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,600
Speaker 2: not adventurous. Others are not adventurous.

20
00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:34,679
Speaker 1: As you can hear, Noah has no problems with English.

21
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:38,760
Speaker 1: English is actually his second language. Noah migrated to Australia

22
00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:41,360
Speaker 1: from Korea as a kid, but we asked him to

23
00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:44,319
Speaker 1: take the English language test that migrants to Australia need

24
00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:48,240
Speaker 1: to sit because the test is going through a big change.

25
00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,920
Speaker 2: In paragraph one, each of the following is mentioned as

26
00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:56,160
Speaker 2: a feature of the city of Teo Tua Khan between

27
00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:01,440
Speaker 2: AD one point fifty and seven hundred except a regularly

28
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:07,279
Speaker 2: arranged streets. B. Several administrative centers spread across the city.

29
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,680
Speaker 2: C many manufacturing workshops.

30
00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,440
Speaker 1: English language proficiency is big business in Australia.

31
00:02:14,800 --> 00:02:18,000
Speaker 2: I think the answer is B. Several administrative centers spread

32
00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:18,840
Speaker 2: across the city.

33
00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:22,440
Speaker 1: We welcomed two hundred and ten thousand permanent migrants in

34
00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,560
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three twenty four, plus another two hundred and

35
00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:31,079
Speaker 1: seven thousand international students who came in temporarily. Noah, we

36
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,800
Speaker 1: had you take this test. It seemed quite hard.

37
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,640
Speaker 2: It was quite hard, and honestly, I'm not sure that

38
00:02:36,680 --> 00:02:37,520
Speaker 2: I did all that well.

39
00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:41,080
Speaker 1: And many of them had to sit a test like this.

40
00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:44,359
Speaker 1: I enjoyed hearing you learn all about Taya Tua Khan.

41
00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:47,639
Speaker 2: I've never been to Tao TiO Khan, and I want

42
00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:48,960
Speaker 2: to go home day now.

43
00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:51,480
Speaker 1: Are you going to be at the pub tonight telling

44
00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,239
Speaker 1: your friends all about it?

45
00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:59,119
Speaker 2: Maybe now?

46
00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:03,040
Speaker 1: The English langue which entry test for Australia is famously tough.

47
00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,960
Speaker 1: A few years ago a friend of mine, a tertiary

48
00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:10,040
Speaker 1: educated native English speaker from the United Kingdom, failed one

49
00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:13,040
Speaker 1: of the tests twice, partly because she was asked to

50
00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:17,079
Speaker 1: write an essay about nuclear power, something she had absolutely

51
00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:18,000
Speaker 1: no idea about.

52
00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:19,600
Speaker 2: That was on one of.

53
00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,160
Speaker 1: The proficiency standards used by the Department of Immigration called

54
00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,840
Speaker 1: the Pearson's English Test, which, despite its rather quaint name,

55
00:03:28,240 --> 00:03:32,639
Speaker 1: strikes terror into the heart of would be Australians. There's

56
00:03:32,680 --> 00:03:36,520
Speaker 1: a whole cottage industry of how tos and coaching clinics

57
00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,000
Speaker 1: like this one on YouTube.

58
00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 3: Pay attention to the verb tenses I've used throughout the essay.

59
00:03:42,360 --> 00:03:48,520
Speaker 3: There's a mix of present, simple present, continuous present, perfect future, simple,

60
00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:50,720
Speaker 3: active and passive.

61
00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:54,840
Speaker 1: In this sample test, the host asks me to analyze

62
00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:56,640
Speaker 1: a three hundred word text.

63
00:03:57,080 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 3: Your job is to summarize that tax down into a

64
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:01,240
Speaker 3: single sentence.

65
00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,640
Speaker 1: The text starts, why has the Leaning Tower of Pisa

66
00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,160
Speaker 1: in Italy survived the strong earthquakes that have hit the

67
00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:11,120
Speaker 1: region since the Middle Ages. The answer, I think is

68
00:04:11,120 --> 00:04:14,000
Speaker 1: that scientists have discovered that the very tall and stiff

69
00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:17,599
Speaker 1: shape of the tower, combined with the very soft soil

70
00:04:17,680 --> 00:04:23,240
Speaker 1: beneath it, means it is protected from earthquake vibrations. I

71
00:04:23,279 --> 00:04:25,760
Speaker 1: feel like I really learned something there, Noah, but I

72
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,160
Speaker 1: had to really concentrate. And English is my first language.

73
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:33,440
Speaker 1: It feels like Australia has set the bar quite high.

74
00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:35,919
Speaker 2: In some ways. It sounds like it has, but to

75
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:40,120
Speaker 2: be fair, there are about five different levels of English

76
00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:44,520
Speaker 2: proficiency that we set as benchmarks to get other specific

77
00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,720
Speaker 2: types of visas, and the lowest is called the functional

78
00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:52,240
Speaker 2: English Language proficiency that's set quite low on various events.

79
00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,279
Speaker 2: The sounds like they're pretty well passed the first and

80
00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,559
Speaker 2: second stages of Duolingo for English, and to be fair,

81
00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,919
Speaker 2: the pretty advanced level in terms of languages that you

82
00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,080
Speaker 2: don't know. But I suspect we have a pretty hard

83
00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:09,360
Speaker 2: time having conversations beyond superficial things with people who can

84
00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:10,719
Speaker 2: only speak English to this level.

85
00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,040
Speaker 1: And then tell me about the higher levels of tests

86
00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,039
Speaker 1: that Australia asks people to take. Who takes them and

87
00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:19,000
Speaker 1: what kinds of things do they have to demonstrate that

88
00:05:19,040 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 1: they can do so at.

89
00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,120
Speaker 2: The highest level, which is a superior level according to

90
00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 2: the legislation, we get to a pretty high level. So

91
00:05:25,880 --> 00:05:29,919
Speaker 2: these people are who can read fully comprehend longer texts.

92
00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:32,680
Speaker 2: This is conversational English. This is a level of English

93
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,919
Speaker 2: that we would use every day. This is a pretty

94
00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:38,479
Speaker 2: advanced level of English. And they can start making complex arguments,

95
00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,359
Speaker 2: complex subjects, complaints and structures. So you know, pretty well

96
00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:46,320
Speaker 2: able to engage in a conversation at the pub or

97
00:05:46,360 --> 00:05:48,680
Speaker 2: on a train, or you know, even perhaps in a

98
00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:49,280
Speaker 2: lecture theater.

99
00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:56,560
Speaker 1: Were you surprised, Noah, by the level of proficiency that

100
00:05:56,760 --> 00:05:58,920
Speaker 1: you were required to demonstrate in this sample test that

101
00:05:58,960 --> 00:05:59,440
Speaker 1: you've taken.

102
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:03,839
Speaker 2: Yes, I was English is my second language actually, and

103
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:05,479
Speaker 2: I felt like I've been tested again.

104
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,760
Speaker 1: Do you feel like that this is being adhered to,

105
00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:14,400
Speaker 1: that everybody who's living here in Australia is actually meeting

106
00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:16,200
Speaker 1: this functional level of English.

107
00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:20,039
Speaker 2: I mean, as you said, even native English speakers sometimes

108
00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,960
Speaker 2: have trouble with this. So I suspect that for some

109
00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,479
Speaker 2: of the higher level this would be. This is the

110
00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:28,440
Speaker 2: robust test from the looks of it. At the higher level,

111
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,520
Speaker 2: you need to be able to speak at a pretty

112
00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:34,000
Speaker 2: advanced level. So no, this is probably a challenging test

113
00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,360
Speaker 2: for most people to take. And whether every Australian can,

114
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:39,560
Speaker 2: hand on heart say they meet the highest threshold of

115
00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,440
Speaker 2: this English test, I suspect most can't.

116
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:42,240
Speaker 3: Yeah.

117
00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:45,839
Speaker 1: I noticed on Reddit quite a few conversations about people

118
00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:48,720
Speaker 1: strategizing about how to pass these tests, and a lot

119
00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,400
Speaker 1: of them were Americans or people from the United Kingdom,

120
00:06:52,640 --> 00:06:55,880
Speaker 1: native English speakers who were very daunted about this prospect

121
00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,479
Speaker 1: and very concerned about whether they'd actually be able to

122
00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:02,400
Speaker 1: pass on What do you think about that, Noah, as

123
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:05,200
Speaker 1: a matter of policy, if we are making it so

124
00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,599
Speaker 1: difficult for people to pass an English language test, even

125
00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,640
Speaker 1: if they are native English speakers, is your sense that

126
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:13,160
Speaker 1: we might have said it a bit too high.

127
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:17,920
Speaker 2: Perhaps we do have specific clauses here about other ways

128
00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 2: that people can pass the English requirement for the leaders,

129
00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,920
Speaker 2: So for example, if they did schooling in the US

130
00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,840
Speaker 2: or in the UK or Canada or places like that,

131
00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,800
Speaker 2: we do just let them in and we assume that

132
00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,560
Speaker 2: they're sufficiently proficient at English. But if people in the

133
00:07:31,640 --> 00:07:34,280
Speaker 2: US and UK who grew up with English, whom English

134
00:07:34,320 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 2: are their only language, are really worried about these tests, well, yes,

135
00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:39,920
Speaker 2: then these tests are far too hot.

136
00:07:44,360 --> 00:08:03,320
Speaker 1: Coming up more of my chat with Noah Yim.

137
00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:03,760
Speaker 2: Now.

138
00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:05,880
Speaker 1: The reason we're talking about this is that the tests

139
00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:07,880
Speaker 1: are changing. Tell me about the changes.

140
00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 2: So the Australian government had released regulation this week that

141
00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:18,760
Speaker 2: lowers the standard for the functional proficiency requirements for English

142
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,960
Speaker 2: on a whole bunch of tests, specifically on two tests,

143
00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:26,280
Speaker 2: the Toffel and the PTE. So the minimum mark that

144
00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,640
Speaker 2: you need to achieve in those tests to be able

145
00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:31,520
Speaker 2: to be granted to be eligible for the visas that

146
00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:34,600
Speaker 2: require that specific level that's been lowered.

147
00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:41,080
Speaker 1: The visas where functional English is required include training visas

148
00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:44,880
Speaker 1: where you're advancing your professional skills and work in holiday

149
00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:48,640
Speaker 1: visas where people aged eighteen to thirty can come in

150
00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:51,600
Speaker 1: for a year up to three times, having a holiday

151
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,040
Speaker 1: and spending some of the time working in specified sectors

152
00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:59,280
Speaker 1: like fruit picking, avatoire work jobs in Northern Australia like

153
00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:03,960
Speaker 1: hospitality in construction or disaster recovery in regional areas.

154
00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,240
Speaker 2: So, according to Pearson, who's one of the organizations that

155
00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,960
Speaker 2: administers one of these tests. The previous mark would have

156
00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,479
Speaker 2: meant that someone can understand sentences and use frequently use expressions,

157
00:09:16,679 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 2: and they can also communicate in simple and routine tasks

158
00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:23,280
Speaker 2: requiring a simple and direct exchange of information on familiar

159
00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:26,880
Speaker 2: or routine matters. But the new requirement by the Australian

160
00:09:26,920 --> 00:09:30,400
Speaker 2: government for MARX means that this person now only needs

161
00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,800
Speaker 2: to meet the criteria of someone who can understand and

162
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,800
Speaker 2: use familiar everyday expressions and very basic phrases and can

163
00:09:37,920 --> 00:09:40,520
Speaker 2: interact in a simple way, provided the other person talks

164
00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,160
Speaker 2: slowly and clearly and as prepared to help. So that's

165
00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:47,480
Speaker 2: really going from someone who sounds like they can get

166
00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,720
Speaker 2: through daily life reasonably, well maybe with a little bit

167
00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,679
Speaker 2: of frection. Now the standard's going down, according to Pearson,

168
00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,440
Speaker 2: to at least someone who might need a little bit

169
00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,800
Speaker 2: of help in assistance from the public. So it's not

170
00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:03,640
Speaker 2: an insignificant dropped out according to person standards. The Coalition

171
00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:06,800
Speaker 2: has certainly hit out hard at this opposition. Home a

172
00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,120
Speaker 2: Fair spokesman Andrew Hasty told us that the current level

173
00:10:10,120 --> 00:10:13,520
Speaker 2: of migration to Australia is unsustainable and that the labor

174
00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:17,559
Speaker 2: government instead of moderating immigration quote the minister is lowering

175
00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:21,480
Speaker 2: minimum English proficiency standards end quote, and that the migration

176
00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:23,439
Speaker 2: system is going to get out of control and it

177
00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:26,640
Speaker 2: is only going to get worse. He says that Australians

178
00:10:26,679 --> 00:10:30,480
Speaker 2: are worse off under Labour's immigration policy. Our infrastructure is

179
00:10:30,559 --> 00:10:34,520
Speaker 2: under pressure, essential services are stretched thin, and young Australians

180
00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,240
Speaker 2: are locked out of the housing market. Social cohesion is freeing.

181
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:42,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, this was a line that the Opposition worked really

182
00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,120
Speaker 1: hard during the election campaign, that they were going to

183
00:10:45,120 --> 00:10:48,480
Speaker 1: get migration under control, that migration was one of the

184
00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:52,079
Speaker 1: reasons why young people in Australia were struggling to buy

185
00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:55,320
Speaker 1: a house. It looks from what Andrew Hasty is saying

186
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,880
Speaker 1: as though they think that's a message that's working for them.

187
00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:03,679
Speaker 2: After the resounding election defeat, we've seen the Opposition undertake

188
00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,120
Speaker 2: an entire policy review, but there are some parts of

189
00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:08,640
Speaker 2: their agenda which they really wanted to drive the states

190
00:11:08,640 --> 00:11:10,559
Speaker 2: into the ground and say, but this is what the

191
00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:14,240
Speaker 2: Liberal Party, even despite the election loss, stands for. And

192
00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:16,400
Speaker 2: it looks like what Andrew Hasty is doing here is

193
00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,400
Speaker 2: repeating that line that Peter Dunnant often deployed during the

194
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:21,600
Speaker 2: election about immigration.

195
00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,760
Speaker 1: So Noah, why is the government making these changes?

196
00:11:27,760 --> 00:11:31,800
Speaker 2: Then when I talked to immigration expert Abil Ruci, what

197
00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,520
Speaker 2: he told me is that this must be the outcome

198
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,160
Speaker 2: of a long term review where they're trying to align

199
00:11:37,520 --> 00:11:41,360
Speaker 2: the relative performance in each various English language tests to

200
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:45,520
Speaker 2: each other. So the IELTS is the benchmark, That's what

201
00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:50,560
Speaker 2: he told me. IOLT stands for International English Language Testing System,

202
00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:55,480
Speaker 2: and the other two big tests, the Test of English

203
00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:59,800
Speaker 2: as a Foreign Language or TOEFL test and the Pearsons

204
00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:03,240
Speaker 2: Test they had their minimum standards lowered in the last

205
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:04,360
Speaker 2: regulation change.

206
00:12:05,240 --> 00:12:07,080
Speaker 1: How do you think we've ended up in a situation

207
00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 1: where we've got multiple tests and this what seems like

208
00:12:11,160 --> 00:12:13,600
Speaker 1: a very complex system to administer.

209
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,400
Speaker 2: It is a very complex system. There's a whole bunch

210
00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,640
Speaker 2: of other tests as well, or with various acronyms, all

211
00:12:19,640 --> 00:12:22,640
Speaker 2: with various testing regimes, and I've read reports that there

212
00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:25,600
Speaker 2: are other tests and other organizations trying to get onto

213
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,640
Speaker 2: this list as well. All of these are private providers,

214
00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:31,920
Speaker 2: you know, Pearson's very famous educational publisher. I think a

215
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:34,320
Speaker 2: whole bunch of the associated with the university that part

216
00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,760
Speaker 2: as well. Either all private tests not administered by government.

217
00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:40,160
Speaker 2: You sit down and take their test, and then you

218
00:12:40,200 --> 00:12:43,920
Speaker 2: submit those scores to various government agencies. It seems like

219
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,120
Speaker 2: a pre elucrative market.

220
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:48,480
Speaker 1: It's classic, isn't it. When you, as an English speaker,

221
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:52,680
Speaker 1: dip your toe into trying to understand something like the

222
00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:55,960
Speaker 1: Department of Immigration, you just get a sense of how

223
00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,080
Speaker 1: impenetrable it must be to people who aren't very confident

224
00:12:59,120 --> 00:12:59,800
Speaker 1: with English.

225
00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right, and how expensive it is as well

226
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,320
Speaker 2: to apply for some of these visas. You can understand

227
00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:09,560
Speaker 2: why migration agents are such a big industry. Prospective migrants

228
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 2: into Australia often take retake these tests multiple times, spending

229
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,080
Speaker 2: one hundreds, even thousands in the process, and then on

230
00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,720
Speaker 2: top of that, they may just have to relent and

231
00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:22,800
Speaker 2: go to a migration agent instead of going through the

232
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,960
Speaker 2: process themselves, which also costs a lot of money. Just

233
00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:28,960
Speaker 2: because Australia's migration system is so complex, there are so

234
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:32,560
Speaker 2: many visa classes costs attached to most of those visas

235
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:35,120
Speaker 2: as well, so it's a really impenetrable process.

236
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,119
Speaker 1: Noah Yim is a journalist in the Australian's Federal Parliamentary

237
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:49,160
Speaker 1: Press Gallery Bureau. You can read his journalism and all

238
00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,920
Speaker 1: the rest of our coverage of politics anytime at the

239
00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:53,880
Speaker 1: Australian dot com dot au