Speaker 1: That's really what anxiety is. We see it as this pesky,
Speaker 1: annoying thing that we just want to numb out or
Speaker 1: get rid of. But if we use it as that messenger,
Speaker 1: and we gently, curiously kind of follow it and we say, hey,
Speaker 1: what's this anxiety got to show me and teach me?
Speaker 1: It will take you on the most amazing path. It
Speaker 1: will take you back to a more whole version of
Speaker 1: yourself and you'll end up feeling grateful for it.
Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to the heart of it. And today
Speaker 2: we are recording on gadigal Land. Today's guest is Georgie Collinson,
Speaker 2: one of Australia's leading anxiety experts, with a particular focus
Speaker 2: on relationship anxiety. Don't we all have that at some
Speaker 2: point or another. She's the internationally best selling author behind
Speaker 2: the Anxiety Reset Method, which was featured on Oprah's Book
Speaker 2: Club in twenty twenty three, which is quite the thing.
Speaker 2: Now she's back with a powerful new book, Master Your
Speaker 2: Relationship Anxiety, diving deep into the fears, doubts and patterns
Speaker 2: that can sabotage our love lives, from love bombing to
Speaker 2: abandonment fears. Georgie breaks down the psychology of romantic anxiety
Speaker 2: and how to navigate it with clarity, confidence, and calm.
Speaker 2: Have a listen to this.
Speaker 3: One, Hey, Georgie Collinson, how are you.
Speaker 1: I'm doing really well. How are you guys?
Speaker 2: Good?
Speaker 3: Very well, Thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2: Before we started, Cam was like, oh, this is the
Speaker 2: one on anxiety that would just makes me anxious.
Speaker 3: Do you reckon? I mean, you've written two books on
Speaker 3: anxiety in your experience. Do you think we all have
Speaker 3: anxiety to some degree?
Speaker 1: That's such a good question. I would say anxiety is
Speaker 1: part of our human experience. I mean, there is so
Speaker 1: much in our environment that sets us up to experience it.
Speaker 1: Just the news, the information overload, the social media, not
Speaker 1: to mention, our relationship stresses and work and there's never
Speaker 1: enough time. We're always so busy, and so yeah, there's
Speaker 1: so many reasons to create and generate that anxiety for anyone.
Speaker 1: And then there's some of us who struggle with it
Speaker 1: more in that debilitating sense, or we might be more
Speaker 1: like how I work with people with high functioning anxiety,
Speaker 1: which is where we get it all done and all
Speaker 1: our responsibilities tend to be well maintained, but inside it's
Speaker 1: a very different story. We're feeling this persistent worry. There's
Speaker 1: usually a lot of pressure on ourselves, a big inner critic,
Speaker 1: and that's becoming more and more sort of the norm
Speaker 1: of how we many of us are in society.
Speaker 3: I think you just described me.
Speaker 2: I think she described a lot of it.
Speaker 1: I get that a lot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I can imagine a high functioning anxiety people. As
Speaker 2: Cam mentioned, you've written two books, The Anxiety Reset Method
Speaker 2: and Master Your Relationship Anxieties is your latest book. It's
Speaker 2: actually a term I'm not specifically heard. So what is
Speaker 2: relationship anxiety?
Speaker 1: Such a good question. So it's essentially anxiety, persistent worry,
Speaker 1: self doubt, insecurity related to pertaining to the context of relationships.
Speaker 1: And this can impact people who are single as well
Speaker 1: or in a relationship. You could be with someone who
Speaker 1: is very stable, very trustworthy, and still have that anxious
Speaker 1: mind worring within you, saying, but what if something happens
Speaker 1: to them? Or what if I'm I'm not quite safe?
Speaker 1: In some ways, our mind will bring up all of
Speaker 1: these doubts and fears and worries in various ways, and
Speaker 1: we can go into those different categories of how that presents.
Speaker 1: But it's such a situation in a relationship with an
Speaker 1: the person that can generate our anxious fears and those
Speaker 1: deepest doubts just by the nature of loving someone and
Speaker 1: the vulnerability the risk that it is to love.
Speaker 3: Okay, So that can happen between a child and a parent,
Speaker 3: that can happen between lovers obviously, and friendships as well,
Speaker 3: any kind of relationship.
Speaker 1: The book is more in the context of a romantic
Speaker 1: intimate partnership, but hey, you know, a lot of those
Speaker 1: concepts will apply more universally. It's just that using the
Speaker 1: framework of a romantic relationship, there's just more nitty gritty
Speaker 1: we can dive into in that context. But of course, yes,
Speaker 1: it's going to pertain to different relationships too.
Speaker 3: Okay, So how does the anxiety show up?
Speaker 1: So we've got four types that we usually see this
Speaker 1: relationship anxiety playing out in. There's the fear of loss
Speaker 1: or abandonment is the first one, which is what if
Speaker 1: they leave me? And if you have that sense, like
Speaker 1: I said, you've got this person. You know they are
Speaker 1: you know, by your side, they are your loyal best friend,
Speaker 1: there might be a fear of well, what if something
Speaker 1: happens to them? You know? That can morph into some
Speaker 1: kind of other potential loss. Then we've got the fear
Speaker 1: of needing someone's approval, of getting their rejection, which essentially
Speaker 1: is what if I'm not good enough for them? What
Speaker 1: if I'm too needy. It can manifest is, you know,
Speaker 1: judging certain scrutinizing areas of the relationship. What if we're
Speaker 1: not having sex enough, what if I'm not pleasing them
Speaker 1: in some way. The third type is the fear of
Speaker 1: being trapped in a bad situation, which is like, what
Speaker 1: if there are red flags in this relationship? Or how
Speaker 1: do I know that this is really healthy? Or how
Speaker 1: do I know this is the right person for me?
Speaker 1: This idea of the one which we really get fixated on.
Speaker 1: And then the fourth type is the fear of losing
Speaker 1: your identity and your personal autonomy in a relationship. And
Speaker 1: so this can manifest is needing space all the time,
Speaker 1: or fanizing about being with someone else and maybe I'd
Speaker 1: be happier in another relationship, or essentially anything to kind
Speaker 1: of push away a little more from that relationship.
Speaker 2: And do you find that the anxiety springs from past
Speaker 2: trauma in relationships specifically, or is it just something that
Speaker 2: can manifest on its own, it.
Speaker 1: Will always have its roots in our past experiences. And
Speaker 1: that's the interesting thing. Yes, I mean, look, there may
Speaker 1: well be the rare exceptions where someone is just merely
Speaker 1: skipping down the lane in their life and has never
Speaker 1: known a negative relationship before and somehow stumbles into a
Speaker 1: situation full of red flags. But I mean the reality
Speaker 1: is there's usually some kind of precursor to normalize that
Speaker 1: experience for someone so that it's already familiar. Then we
Speaker 1: don't react to the red flags. We see that anger
Speaker 1: outburst or you know, the abusive words or the love
Speaker 1: bombing that can occur early on as normal as this
Speaker 1: is just how love is, how relationships are, and all
Speaker 1: that conditioning begins when we're children. And if we've only
Speaker 1: known healthy, stable, safe relationships in our lives where you
Speaker 1: can be yourself, you can say what you're feeling, no
Speaker 1: one's going to shut you down or call you too
Speaker 1: sensitive or too much. Then you're going to feel this
Speaker 1: sense of this is weird being in anything less than that,
Speaker 1: you will naturally be protected or want to make moves
Speaker 1: away from those scenarios. So, yes, there's always going to
Speaker 1: be some thread, and it's so cliche, but it goes
Speaker 1: back to our childhood. We are replicating our initial bond
Speaker 1: with one or both of our parents, and what wasn't
Speaker 1: what needs weren't met, what moments of pain weren't resolved
Speaker 1: with a partner later in life.
Speaker 3: So then based on that, do you advocate to people
Speaker 3: to have therapy and work out their childhood's stuff before
Speaker 3: entering relationships.
Speaker 1: That's a great question too, and I would say it
Speaker 1: can be both. So there's actually this journey that we
Speaker 1: take through our love experiences in life, and it tends
Speaker 1: to go through three different stages, which I also outline
Speaker 1: in the book. And this is where I just want
Speaker 1: to say, we don't have to do all of our
Speaker 1: healing on our own. I think that's a really big
Speaker 1: message out there. If you have to be by yourself
Speaker 1: and go into this deep healing phase before you can
Speaker 1: actually meet someone healthy or have a healthy relationship, or
Speaker 1: you can't just jump from one relationship to another. I
Speaker 1: think we're all on very different paths with that, and
Speaker 1: it's okay to take your own path, and you can
Speaker 1: also reflect on yourself and whether that is in therapy
Speaker 1: or with some kind of book you're reading or a podcast.
Speaker 1: You know, there's different ways that we can do that
Speaker 1: self awareness that's really really beneficial. But these three stages
Speaker 1: we move through and think about in your own life
Speaker 1: or people that you know. You'll generally see people move
Speaker 1: through these three stages. It's fascinating. But the first one
Speaker 1: we can move through it with different partners or potentially
Speaker 1: the same partner if we've met that one person when
Speaker 1: we're seventeen, and then we're just with them forever. The
Speaker 1: first stage is base love, and this is the partner
Speaker 1: that we meet. Usually it just feels kind of effortless.
Speaker 1: You just come together. It's sweet, it's young love, and
Speaker 1: the relationship kind of works until something just pulls you
Speaker 1: in different directions. Maybe you're studying in different places, maybe
Speaker 1: different career paths. Maybe someone figures out that they're actually gay,
Speaker 1: or someone has some kind of realization you don't really
Speaker 1: know yourself yet when you meet that person, and so
Speaker 1: then we move into the next phase. We might feel
Speaker 1: called to move into what we call chaotic love. And
Speaker 1: this is where it's heaven and it's hell all at once.
Speaker 1: It's like the most amazing and love passionate experience you've had,
Speaker 1: and yet it's awful too. All of your wounds will
Speaker 1: come up, all of the stuff that I mentioned earlier
Speaker 1: that hasn't been resolved since our childhood will come up
Speaker 1: in that chaotic love phase. And this is where we'll
Speaker 1: see people who are in those really uncomfortable patterns of
Speaker 1: being attracted to emotionally unavailable people just can't seem to
Speaker 1: find the right person and cycling through relationships. Or again,
Speaker 1: if you're with the same person, maybe you go through
Speaker 1: a really rough time of not getting each other. Or
Speaker 1: this could be maybe the story where someone gets a
Speaker 1: couple gets divorced, but then they find their way back
Speaker 1: to each other later. And then the last phase. If
Speaker 1: we learn our lessons, if we do that growth work
Speaker 1: and we start to show up as the healthiest partner
Speaker 1: we can be and a more whole version of ourselves
Speaker 1: and really know ourselves well, we can move into expansive love,
Speaker 1: which is this side by side partnership where we get
Speaker 1: to grow together. And it's not going to be perfect,
Speaker 1: as I'm sure you guys know you talk about on
Speaker 1: your podcast all the time, but it's this opportunity to
Speaker 1: stick together through the ups and downs of life, and
Speaker 1: it's someone that you can move and evolve with, and
Speaker 1: it's a very different experience coming into that expansive love.
Speaker 1: Once we've you know, we can kind of own our
Speaker 1: stuff a bit more. We're better at expressing what we need,
Speaker 1: and the relationship can function a lot better.
Speaker 2: Relate, relate, relate on all levels.
Speaker 3: Georgie, Well, that chaotic, we're kind of an expensive.
Speaker 2: Well, it's helpful when you've got someone, like I've said
Speaker 2: about you before, that's willing to keep going on the
Speaker 2: journey for self exploration. Like I think that's where I
Speaker 2: think relationships can come undone when one person is doing
Speaker 2: it and the other person isn't whatever. But you know,
Speaker 2: that's that's where I think it's important to you know,
Speaker 2: to travel and traverse those places individually, but it's still
Speaker 2: going in the same direction, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2: So I love that you said, Georgie, that you don't
Speaker 2: have to have you basically, I'm going to say much
Speaker 2: more crudely than you did, but you don't have to
Speaker 2: have all your shit together before you meet the love
Speaker 2: of your life. Like, I think that's something the therapist
Speaker 2: that we did early therapy that was very much herm
Speaker 2: O like for the single people that she worked with.
Speaker 2: You'll never meet anyone until you're healed, until you've worked
Speaker 2: through your childhood, you won't attract the right person. And
Speaker 2: it was like, these women are still single, you know,
Speaker 2: because they're waiting to like get all their ship sorted.
Speaker 2: And it's like, I love that you said that. It
Speaker 2: can absolutely and often we shot we saw our shit
Speaker 2: out when we meet someone in reflection, because it's all well,
Speaker 2: it's all well and good to be in your head,
Speaker 2: going I do this with this person, I do that.
Speaker 2: But until you're in relationship, nothing's going to bring out
Speaker 2: your wounds and your traumas until you're really in the
Speaker 2: thick of.
Speaker 1: It right totally. And this is coming from someone I
Speaker 1: spent three and a half years single in between my
Speaker 1: my chaotic relationship, had a few more chaotic ones, and
Speaker 1: then my current partner, And you know, it was a
Speaker 1: phase where I did do the solo, independent thing for
Speaker 1: a while of just doing my healing work and focusing
Speaker 1: on that. But I reached a point where and I
Speaker 1: will say it was a very peaceful time in many ways.
Speaker 1: There was no one there to disagree with me, no
Speaker 1: one there to push my buttons. It was so great
Speaker 1: but of course, as you said, this is where so
Speaker 1: much of the learning happens is when you actually bring
Speaker 1: in another person to mirror you, to reflect things back
Speaker 1: to you, and you get to a point or you
Speaker 1: can decide at some point in your life that you're
Speaker 1: just ready to kind of do that work with someone.
Speaker 1: I mean that there is always going to be this opportunity,
Speaker 1: this invitation and a relationship with someone to reflect on
Speaker 1: yourself and how you're communicating, and what you need and
Speaker 1: what parts of you are the mature adult part of you,
Speaker 1: and what parts of you are the inner child that's
Speaker 1: just throwing a tantrum or doesn't like it, or is
Speaker 1: being manipulative or whatever it might be. And there's no
Speaker 1: better space to learn that than within a relationship. One
Speaker 1: of the things I talk about in the book quite
Speaker 1: a bit is this obsession we have as a culture
Speaker 1: at the moment with hyper independence, really glorifying people that
Speaker 1: do it all by themselves and you know, they're a
Speaker 1: self made success or the independent woman's story. You know,
Speaker 1: it's kind of like I understand that if you're in
Speaker 1: a scenario where maybe you're a single mom and you're
Speaker 1: just like you know, going through life in that way
Speaker 1: that can be really empowering. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: tribal beings and we need community and we need others
Speaker 1: around us, and so yeah, being in relationship with others
Speaker 1: is essential for our well being and something we kind
Speaker 1: of need to come back to.
Speaker 3: It's really good. As you're talking, then, I was thinking
Speaker 3: about a line that I've often heard is that it's
Speaker 3: easy to be the most enlightened person when you're living
Speaker 3: on top of a mountain, and it's only until you
Speaker 3: come down off that mountain and start dealing with the
Speaker 3: people that and dealing with people that you love or
Speaker 3: come into contact that you actually realize how enlightened you are.
Speaker 1: That's like the other version of that that I've heard
Speaker 1: is like, go spend a week with your family right
Speaker 1: Christmas time. You know, it's always always a test.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, So you've got a is this right? A four
Speaker 3: week program for overcoming the mental and emotional stresses in relationship?
Speaker 1: That's it.
Speaker 3: So what could I expect if I was to sign
Speaker 3: up to that four week program?
Speaker 1: Well, the book guides you through this, and the reason
Speaker 1: it's four weeks is that it's essentially we're putting a
Speaker 1: timeframe on it. For you to work through and read
Speaker 1: through and apply the different practices in the book. Now,
Speaker 1: of course that work that you have to do ongoing
Speaker 1: is going to be much longer than four weeks, But
Speaker 1: there is so much that I can bring to the
Speaker 1: reader's awareness in just a read through of the book
Speaker 1: that it creates such a shift that awareness is fifty
Speaker 1: percent of the work. The next part is, of course,
Speaker 1: then putting it into practice and you know, learning to
Speaker 1: follow through with those realizations. So if you realize, for example,
Speaker 1: that you have a habit of abandoning yourself in relationships,
Speaker 1: and what I mean by that is I don't matter,
Speaker 1: I'm not that important, I'm hungry, but I'll feed you first,
Speaker 1: you know that kind of mentality. Bringing awareness to that,
Speaker 1: you now have an opportunity to choose differently and remember
Speaker 1: that you need to feed yourself too, or ask for
Speaker 1: what you need and receive as well. You need hugs
Speaker 1: as well as the hugs that you so readily give
Speaker 1: to other people. And through working through that, yeah, we
Speaker 1: can make some big shifts if we're really intentional about
Speaker 1: it in a short phase of time.
Speaker 3: And four weeks is a good time to develop positive
Speaker 3: habits too, right.
Speaker 1: That's it. Yes, it doesn't have to be forever. But
Speaker 1: again it's the catalyst for a much bigger shift and
Speaker 1: change ongoing in your life. But we really dedicate ourselves
Speaker 1: to a time frame. We say, look, I'm just looking
Speaker 1: at me. In these next four weeks, I'm going to
Speaker 1: be the observer of my life. I'm going to watch
Speaker 1: what's going on. Again. There's another section I talk about
Speaker 1: when we notice we're in these habits of repeating childhood patterns,
Speaker 1: Perhaps we've got the awareness, maybe we've done some therapy
Speaker 1: work or some self development stuff and we can see, Ah, yes,
Speaker 1: I always have this habit of exploding emotionally in anger
Speaker 1: and irritation because I haven't been putting myself first. Whatever
Speaker 1: it might be. Maybe bottle things up and you don't
Speaker 1: share it. One of the things I actually recommend is
Speaker 1: to let yourself go through that cycle of doing the
Speaker 1: thing that you know that you do do the habit,
Speaker 1: watch yourself do it, but don't do it the same
Speaker 1: way you normally would, where you're asleep while you do
Speaker 1: that and you just go through that reactive pattern. Instead,
Speaker 1: just watch it. Watch what happens when you do, you know,
Speaker 1: throw in the snide remark that you want to throw
Speaker 1: in or win the argument. Watch what's going on in
Speaker 1: those unhealthy patterns with your eyes open and see the
Speaker 1: outcome that results as you do that, And what happens
Speaker 1: is you naturally retire of it. Naturally, these new awarenesses
Speaker 1: come to you and you realize that, oh, when I
Speaker 1: do this, I get this result and I feel terrible
Speaker 1: or it doesn't get us anywhere. It's a lose loose,
Speaker 1: and we can then again quite easefully shift the way
Speaker 1: we show up, so it's less about like forcing yourself
Speaker 1: to be the perfect person and more just fumbling through.
Speaker 1: But with your eyes open and naturally some of these
Speaker 1: things start to shift. I noticed it personally when I
Speaker 1: was again attracted to certain emotionally unavailable men and noticing, okay, well,
Speaker 1: what happens if I just follow this path this time?
Speaker 1: What if I just follow the attraction that I feel?
Speaker 1: And it eventually just hit me and it was so
Speaker 1: clear that this is a dead end, this is not
Speaker 1: going to meet my needs. And that was so such
Speaker 1: a realization, breakthrough kind of moment to have that and see, like,
Speaker 1: if I keep doing this, this is just yeah, getting
Speaker 1: me nowhere, and I describe it like it's like seeing
Speaker 1: your favorite ice cream but knowing it looks so delicious,
Speaker 1: but knowing that its spiked with a flavor that you hate,
Speaker 1: and so you kind of know, oh, yep, I've tasted
Speaker 1: that before. I'm not going to taste it again. It
Speaker 1: doesn't taste very good.
Speaker 2: And it's one of those things too, that all of
Speaker 2: your girlfriends are there going, oh my god, she's fallen
Speaker 2: in love with the exact same guy. Like everyone else
Speaker 2: can see it except for you, because you're still trying
Speaker 2: to heal that part of yourself, so you still keep
Speaker 2: going back to the same kind of like guy until we,
Speaker 2: as you say, wake up and have that realization. It's like, oh,
Speaker 2: this is about something else. I keep choosing this to heal.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's it. You know what was even more frustrating
Speaker 1: for me is I had all that awareness, like I
Speaker 1: could see it, and yet I still felt the attraction,
Speaker 1: and I was like, oh, yeah, you know, so I
Speaker 1: just I kept following those breadcrumbs anyway, but again, showing
Speaker 1: up still kind of like protecting aware of myself in
Speaker 1: that experience, and that's what ultimately helped me break that pattern,
Speaker 1: because I was like Oh yeah, I really get it now.
Speaker 2: I have I know where you know specifically, your your
Speaker 2: speciality is romantic relationships.
Speaker 1: That's what the book's about. Though.
Speaker 2: For me, I have a lot of friendship anxiety. I'm
Speaker 2: like the youngest of three sisters, so you know, with three,
Speaker 2: it's often difficult, like in this sense of like I
Speaker 2: feel like someone for me, this is where my brain goes.
Speaker 2: Someone's always going to get left out if it's three
Speaker 2: and I'm constantly making like in America, I was one
Speaker 2: of three friends. Here here in Australia, I'm one of
Speaker 2: three friends, and it's so I am my anxiety around
Speaker 2: being left out like I have to. I'm that annoying
Speaker 2: friend that goes are you mad with me? Is everything okay? Like?
Speaker 2: And I'm like, oh my god, it's here again, and
Speaker 2: they're like, Ali, No, it's fine, I love you.
Speaker 1: What's going on.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I know, but it's it's I have it
Speaker 2: there really strongly. And that's as you say, it's from
Speaker 2: my childhood of being the youngest of three sisters and
Speaker 2: because I was the young and there was a big
Speaker 2: gap as the youngest that the two were you know,
Speaker 2: going out and doing stuff together. So it's just it's
Speaker 2: just carried me.
Speaker 1: Through still yeah and yeah, still learning, but you know
Speaker 1: it's amazing you've got the awareness and you can see it.
Speaker 1: And then the next step is that if you can
Speaker 1: see in your adult life. Now I've got this experience,
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm that six year old that I
Speaker 1: was once being left out or feeling this insecurity. You
Speaker 1: can start to visualize if you're open to it, you
Speaker 1: could close your eyes and you can imagine speaking to
Speaker 1: that little six year old and really be the loving
Speaker 1: friend or sister or parent that she needed in that moment,
Speaker 1: and you can say to her, you're awesome, you are
Speaker 1: so lovable, you are so worthy of friends and being included,
Speaker 1: and you can really teach that younger you the reality
Speaker 1: of why, you know, maybe you were excluded from certain things,
Speaker 1: or there was the competition and things that you probably
Speaker 1: weren't explained at the time because so often out our parents, yeah,
Speaker 1: our caregivers, they don't get on the same level as
Speaker 1: us as children. And so yeah, like speaking to yourself
Speaker 1: in that way. It sounds so strange, I think and
Speaker 1: maybe even weird when we first sort of approach that concept,
Speaker 1: but it is such a game changer to kind of
Speaker 1: be this best friend to yourself. This loving parent is
Speaker 1: what I often often refer to it as. And that's
Speaker 1: something that we can keep doing and working with.
Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you.
Speaker 3: What if, Georgie, what if one person in the relationship
Speaker 3: has anxiety and the other one doesn't and certainly doesn't
Speaker 3: know how to support the anxious one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a tough scenario because, as I mentioned earlier,
Speaker 1: you could be the most stable, secure person. You could
Speaker 1: say to that partner that's anxious, Look you're safe with me.
Speaker 1: I don't know what else to do for you. Like
Speaker 1: I'm here, I'm not going anywhere, and hey, being that
Speaker 1: stable force is really helpful, you know, it help that person.
Speaker 1: In fact, there's a video online of a stray kitten
Speaker 1: that is so scared and traumatized and it's in a
Speaker 1: box and there's this mother cat that slowly, slowly approaches
Speaker 1: this kitten, and the kitten is freaking out. It's scratching,
Speaker 1: it's hissing at the mother cat that's moving towards it.
Speaker 1: It's not its mother, but it's a mother cat, and
Speaker 1: the cat just keeps slowly, slowly moving towards it, and
Speaker 1: it doesn't react, it doesn't flinch when the kitten lashes out,
Speaker 1: and eventually the video moves on and the two are
Speaker 1: curled up sleeping together and the mess I know, it's
Speaker 1: so heartwarming. The message of that video is that this
Speaker 1: continued support of I'm not going anywhere, I'm stable, you
Speaker 1: can lash out at me and I'm right here. It
Speaker 1: really can be so healing for another person. So I
Speaker 1: wouldn't underestimate that. But then we don't want to move
Speaker 1: into a space where you are your energy compromising yourself either,
Speaker 1: And so that partner that's got the anxiety also has
Speaker 1: to do that in a work and they have to
Speaker 1: start to work with the invitation that anxiety is to
Speaker 1: meet parts of yourself that have been wounded in some
Speaker 1: way or in pain, or have been heard or were
Speaker 1: left or went through something. And that's that's really what
Speaker 1: anxiety is. It's we see it as this pesky, annoying
Speaker 1: thing that we just want to numb out or get
Speaker 1: rid of. But if we use it as that messenger
Speaker 1: and we gently, curiously kind of follow it and we say, hey,
Speaker 1: what's this anxiety got to show me and teach me,
Speaker 1: it will take you on the most amazing path. It
Speaker 1: will take you back to a more whole version of
Speaker 1: yourself and you'll end up feeling grateful for it in
Speaker 1: the first place. As much as I know, it can
Speaker 1: feel like climbing an impossible mountain when you're when you're
Speaker 1: experiencing the grips of it, but that's where we can go.
Speaker 1: So it has to be if you're supporting someone that
Speaker 1: is experiencing a lot of ansaieciety, it has to be a
Speaker 1: team effort. You can certainly do a lot by just
Speaker 1: being that stable force, but also you can't do it
Speaker 1: all and don't take on everything. You've also got to
Speaker 1: encourage your partner to do their inner work as well
Speaker 1: as best as you can.
Speaker 2: You know, Mel Robins, Yeah, I caught something that she
Speaker 2: was saying the other day, and she was saying, don't
Speaker 2: say I have anxiety. Don't say because it's do you
Speaker 2: know what I'm talking about? What I'm about to say? Yeah,
Speaker 2: She's like, you need to define it. You need to
Speaker 2: be able to say I'm anxious about getting on a
Speaker 2: plane and be specific about what it is you're anxious
Speaker 2: about because words matter. What's your take on that.
Speaker 1: Love it all for it one of the first things
Speaker 1: I teach someone who who comes into my world is
Speaker 1: to really look at this label of anxiety and the
Speaker 1: identity we tend to take on with it. We often
Speaker 1: think it's a part of our personality, and yeah, some
Speaker 1: of us obviously have a sensitivity towards that, maybe a
Speaker 1: tendency towards anxiety more than others. But it doesn't mean
Speaker 1: it's who you are. You are so much more than
Speaker 1: the anxiety. So it's important that we don't say I
Speaker 1: have anxiety or I am an anxious person. I make
Speaker 1: a lot of social media posts about that, and it's funny.
Speaker 1: There are so many people who like fiercely want to
Speaker 1: defend their label, and I think it's important to have
Speaker 1: a context right to work within. So if you can
Speaker 1: kind of say, okay, yeah, oh yeah, I'm fitting into
Speaker 1: the anxiety category with this, but again from there, now,
Speaker 1: let's use it and work with it, because it's not
Speaker 1: who you are. It's just something that you're experiencing, right,
Speaker 1: And that distinction is huge. When we think it's who
Speaker 1: we are and it's like, you know, it kind of
Speaker 1: becomes like I am a problem, and that doesn't cultivate
Speaker 1: safety within ourselves. That place we go to when we
Speaker 1: close our eyes and we're alone with ourself, our thoughts,
Speaker 1: our emotions feels very unsafe when we think that there's
Speaker 1: some inherent flaw or problem with it. And if we
Speaker 1: can there is so much we can do to start
Speaker 1: to cultivate a safety without inner world. And it really
Speaker 1: starts with seeing you're not this big problem, you're not broken,
Speaker 1: and you're certainly not forever tattooed with the label of anxiety.
Speaker 3: That's great. It's Celtic saying that. I don't know what
Speaker 3: the Celtic saying is, but it basically means it was
Speaker 3: with sickness, and it was someone saying I'm sick, you know,
Speaker 3: and it's like, and the Celtic saying is I am
Speaker 3: with sickness or this is with me at the moment,
Speaker 3: I'm with this cold. And then it creates separation of it,
Speaker 3: so it's not actually, you're not actually sick. It's like,
Speaker 3: I'm just with it and it will pass.
Speaker 1: That so much I'm going to start using that. For sure.
Speaker 3: It stayed with me, Georgie. It certainly stayed with me
Speaker 3: because it's a long time ago. But it was whatever
Speaker 3: the you know, it was some like, oh, we're never
Speaker 3: going to learn.
Speaker 1: That it is.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's probably going to be an incredibly obvious question.
Speaker 2: Does anxiety show up more in the more sort of
Speaker 2: volatile relationships or does it show up in the healthy,
Speaker 2: loving ones as well?
Speaker 1: It can be just as present in both. But of course,
Speaker 1: if you are in a more volatile relationship, and we
Speaker 1: can define this in a few ways, like you are
Speaker 1: not with someone who is interested in meeting your needs,
Speaker 1: You're with someone who is perhaps abusive, and hey, we've
Speaker 1: got to look at it. It's more than physical. You know,
Speaker 1: abuse can be emotional. It can be someone who's constantly
Speaker 1: putting you down, making jokes at your expense, using derogatory language,
Speaker 1: and degrading your self esteem, which can happen, you know,
Speaker 1: quite casually. You know, Oh you're silly, idiot, right, We
Speaker 1: can hear that, and we can have people talk to
Speaker 1: them like we talk to our siblings that way, you know,
Speaker 1: growing up half the time. So these are some things
Speaker 1: that don't make us feel safe inside ourselves. And if
Speaker 1: we are in a scenario like that, some people come
Speaker 1: to work with me and they want me to build
Speaker 1: their confidence, They want me to build their self esteem
Speaker 1: and help them to feel calm so that they're not
Speaker 1: such a problem for their partner anymore. But it's I know,
Speaker 1: but it's kind of like, if you're experiencing these constant
Speaker 1: threats and attacks and you don't feel safe, it's like
Speaker 1: trying to be fireproof in a dragon's den. And my
Speaker 1: approach is, you know, let's get you instead to build
Speaker 1: that self esteem and that awareness enough that you actually
Speaker 1: are okay with getting out of the dragon's den. But hey,
Speaker 1: that's a that's a process, and and you know, people
Speaker 1: are going to meet that in their own time. But
Speaker 1: that's another big message in the book that I'm really
Speaker 1: proud to have out there because it's such a big
Speaker 1: one that is so tough for people who are in
Speaker 1: those situations to break out of.
Speaker 2: And see, yeah, because you can't. Yeah, you're sorry. I'm
Speaker 2: just saying, you're delineating the difference between what is genuine
Speaker 2: anxiety and what is major red flags that it's like,
Speaker 2: hang on a minute, you're actually maybe maybe it's more
Speaker 2: your intuition that you're picking up on rather than the
Speaker 2: fact that it's your anxiety.
Speaker 1: You're just yeah, totally, and we'll get people. We'll get
Speaker 1: people telling, you know, like I've had clients where that
Speaker 1: they they again would coming to me trying to fix
Speaker 1: their anxiety, but their partner's cheating on them and lying
Speaker 1: to them about it, and every time they bring it up,
Speaker 1: they're getting this message of you must be crazy or
Speaker 1: everything's fine. And again it's like our environment matters. Our
Speaker 1: relationships really do matter with anxiety. It doesn't matter how
Speaker 1: much we're doing our breath work and our therapy and
Speaker 1: our you know, whatever we're doing to regulate our nervous
Speaker 1: system those breathing hacks that we're seeing online. We do
Speaker 1: have to look at the relationships in our lives. And
Speaker 1: I've seen even like close friends be detrimental to someone's
Speaker 1: nervous system too, even if you're not actually living with
Speaker 1: them day to day. Looking at our friendships is also
Speaker 1: really important.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Georgie, what would your three top tips for anyone
Speaker 3: who is with anxiety?
Speaker 1: Love it? Well? If you're with anxiety more in a
Speaker 1: general context, again, I would invite you to consider shifting
Speaker 1: the relationship that you have with anxiety rather than trying
Speaker 1: to get rid of it and trying to make this
Speaker 1: part of you go away. And the reason for that
Speaker 1: is because that doesn't work. When we reject, suppress, deny
Speaker 1: a part of ourselves, it only screams louder for our attention.
Speaker 1: It's kind of like leaving your dog outside where they're
Speaker 1: barking and scratching at the door wanting to come inside.
Speaker 1: The more you ignore them. You know, there's certain dogs
Speaker 1: that will just keep barking louder and louder until you
Speaker 1: just let them in. And this is how anxiety can be.
Speaker 1: When we let it in and we say, Okay, what
Speaker 1: are you here to teach me? That can shift so
Speaker 1: much so showing up to it with a different attitude,
Speaker 1: a different mindset. A curiosity is step one. The next
Speaker 1: is also then doing this work to sort of see
Speaker 1: a Kate. Is this a part of me from long ago?
Speaker 1: Is this an emotional flashpack that I'm going through? Have
Speaker 1: I felt this way before? Is this a pattern for me?
Speaker 1: And that can maybe take you back to one of
Speaker 1: those memories like, oh, yeah, I used to feel like this.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm anxious for my friends right now, and hey,
Speaker 1: I used to feel like that with my sisters growing up.
Speaker 1: And that's going to give you some big clues as
Speaker 1: to the part of you that you need to speak
Speaker 1: to to help yourself resolve this pattern, because over time
Speaker 1: you really can start to cultivate that safety, and those
Speaker 1: those triggers can come will fire off less and less
Speaker 1: and will get less anxiety coming up. And the third
Speaker 1: one is just the importance of helping the emotional energy
Speaker 1: to release in some way. There are many different ways
Speaker 1: that we can do this, and I was just mentioning
Speaker 1: breath works, So breathing practices can be really helpful. Even
Speaker 1: just a sigh can be helpful. You can do a
Speaker 1: twenty minute, thirty minute breath work class like one of
Speaker 1: those longer ones. There's so many options there. But crying
Speaker 1: feeling our feelings. You have a big cry, Oh, that's
Speaker 1: such an outlet for our nervous system to come back
Speaker 1: into balance. We demonize that in our lives, you know,
Speaker 1: we really make that a weakness or we make it wrong.
Speaker 1: Or it's really hard when you see someone you love
Speaker 1: or care about crying in front of you and not
Speaker 1: saying to them, don't cry, or how can I make
Speaker 1: you stop crying? You know, like trying really hard to
Speaker 1: rush them out of it. Perhaps we do this with
Speaker 1: our children as well, because again it's it's so painful
Speaker 1: to see them in that. But if we can just
Speaker 1: allow someone to be in their feelings as much as
Speaker 1: they need to, as long as they need to, and
Speaker 1: witness it, gosh, that's so healing. But we have to
Speaker 1: start doing that with ourselves as well. If that's not familiar, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Beautiful tips, I was doing that yesterday. I mixed two
Speaker 3: of those. I mixed two of those.
Speaker 2: Together, crying inside.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I was playing golf. So I was out
Speaker 3: there for my emotional release playing golf, and then I
Speaker 3: missed a few shots and I started crying on the A.
Speaker 2: Teen your mates helpful of it?
Speaker 3: They should let it out, buddy, Oh did they let
Speaker 3: it out?
Speaker 1: Did they?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Kidding me? Get out of yourself, Dad, I move on.
Speaker 3: It's your shout. You lost. You have to buy the beer.
Speaker 2: Many many a tears bit and shed on the golf cause,
Speaker 2: let me tell you, And when I get home.
Speaker 1: This is a tricky thing because I work mostly with women,
Speaker 1: so well, I work exclusively with women, so for men,
Speaker 1: the emotional release, it's a different kettle of fish. But
Speaker 1: you know, sport and physical activity, it can certainly be
Speaker 1: a really really good one and shedding some tears when
Speaker 1: when appropriate, we're safe to do so.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know. I absolutely always feel better after a cry,
Speaker 3: always so true, and a cuddle. Cry and a cuddle.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're all just big kids, you know, like how
Speaker 1: it solves ninety percent of things when you just give
Speaker 1: a little kid that's having a meltdown like a cuddle
Speaker 1: and you know, just let them know they're safe. Absolutely
Speaker 1: same we are.
Speaker 2: We never change. Georgie.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much.
Speaker 2: Your your last your latest book is Master Your Relationship Anxiety.
Speaker 2: It's got a sort of a plan in it for you.
Speaker 2: You'll you know you can actually you can still work
Speaker 2: with Georgie. I'm sure people can find you online and
Speaker 2: work with you one on one. Her former book was
Speaker 2: The Anxiety Reset Method, that reached international success when it
Speaker 2: was picked by Oprah's book Club Hollow.
Speaker 3: That must have been exciting.
Speaker 2: That is so exciting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a pretty wild time, I must say.
Speaker 2: For you, congratulations. But thanks so much for talking about
Speaker 2: this topic. I think it's such an interesting one.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.