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Speaker 1: The public has had a long held fascination with detectives.

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Speaker 1: Detective sy aside of life the average person is never

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Speaker 1: exposed to. I spent thirty four years as a cop.

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Speaker 1: For twenty five of those years, I was catching killers.

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Speaker 1: That's what I did for a living. I was a

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Speaker 1: homicide detective. I'm no longer just interviewing bad guys. Instead,

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Speaker 1: I'm taking the public into the world in which I operated.

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Speaker 1: The guests I talk to each week have amazing stories

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Speaker 1: from all sides of the law. The interviews are raw

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Speaker 1: and honest, just like the people I talk to. Some

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Speaker 1: of the content and language might be confronting. That's because

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Speaker 1: no one who comes into contact with crime is left unchanged.

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Speaker 1: Join me now as I take you into this world. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're going to take you into the spying game. We're

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Speaker 1: going to be talking to someone who knows and understands

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Speaker 1: this world better than most. We're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: to a former CIA operative who's spent over twenty five

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Speaker 1: years with this secretive organization, gathering intelligence and conducting covert operations.

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Speaker 1: Most of what we know about the workings of the

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Speaker 1: CIA comes from spy novels or Hollywood movies. Well, today

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Speaker 1: We're going to find out exactly what goes on in

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Speaker 1: that shadowy world. Who are these faceless men and women

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Speaker 1: who put their lives at risk in the hope of

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Speaker 1: making the world a better place. Rick Prado, a former

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Speaker 1: CIA operative, is going to tell us all about it

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Speaker 1: because he was one of those faceless men. Rick, have

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Speaker 1: you ever had an operation where communications break down right

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Speaker 1: at the critical time?

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Speaker 2: Several times? Trust me, we have a scene who was

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Speaker 2: one and one has known so yeah, when it comes

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Speaker 2: to communications.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's for me from my time in policing. Got

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Speaker 1: to say, we've had some very interesting guests on I

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Speaker 1: Catch Killers, but we haven't had someone that's lived the

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Speaker 1: life like you've lived. It's quite extraordinary what you've been

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Speaker 1: through in your world that you operated in the CIA.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I have to say that I've been a blessed individual.

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Speaker 2: You know. I came to this country as an orphan immigrant,

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Speaker 2: and this country adapted, adopted us, adopted me and subsequently

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Speaker 2: my parents when they were able to come out. So

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Speaker 2: I developed that data honor very early on in my life,

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Speaker 2: and shortly after hastchool I went into the military and

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Speaker 2: from then on eventually to the Agency.

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Speaker 1: Well, that certainly comes across in your book that the

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Speaker 1: fact that you really believe in what you do, the

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Speaker 1: type of work you did in the CIA, and we've

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Speaker 1: had like undercover cops, have had FBI cops on and

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Speaker 1: all the police I've worked with, whether it be tactical

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Speaker 1: and different things, the type of work that you do,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like the pressure on steroids, like the stakes

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Speaker 1: are very high in the world that you are operating.

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Speaker 1: Moral compass. I always found that in law enforcement, different

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Speaker 1: different people, it's important to hang on to a moral compass.

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Speaker 1: When you worked in the CIA, I'm sure there was

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Speaker 1: ethical dilemmas that you faced. How did you manage to

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Speaker 1: navigate your wife through that world?

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Speaker 2: Well, first of all, to address the first part of

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Speaker 2: what you were talking about, I think one of the

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Speaker 2: biggest differences and I work with law enforcement. I'm a

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Speaker 2: full member of our Fraternal Order of Police here, but

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Speaker 2: remember that even when you guys are under cover, you're

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Speaker 2: in your turf, you have nine to one one. We don't.

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Speaker 2: We only operate outside of the United States. To answer

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Speaker 2: your second question, the moral compass was easy because I

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Speaker 2: was blessed with really good leaders, individuals that groooned me

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Speaker 2: that appreciated what I was willing to do. So for me,

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Speaker 2: navigating that was OJT. Most of the work that we

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Speaker 2: have is on the job training. We have the farm

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Speaker 2: that we go through that's formal. After that, it's literally

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Speaker 2: your your senior operators guiding you through each step of

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Speaker 2: the way.

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Speaker 1: So I think it's crucial in situations you found yourself

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Speaker 1: in to have that good leadership. You can't underestimate a

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Speaker 1: good leader. And also mentors are very important in that world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something that I learned from my mentors and

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Speaker 2: I've tried to pay it forward by doing the same

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Speaker 2: for a lot of our other guys.

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Speaker 1: Okay, writing the book about the CIA, what motivated that?

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Speaker 1: Because you know, I'm sure you know the perception that's

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Speaker 1: very secretive world. And I understand having read the book

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Speaker 1: and cover the cover, and I've got to say it

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Speaker 1: is a great read. It took me right into that world.

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Speaker 1: What was the motivation behind writing the book?

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Speaker 2: That's one thing that I never wanted a moniker that

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Speaker 2: I ever dreamed of being in my name, best selling author.

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Speaker 2: That was never in my pocket. I always wanted to

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Speaker 2: do something special military. I always loved the CIA concept

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Speaker 2: of doing things little that I knew about it, but

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Speaker 2: I had several people, like one of my bosses, called

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Speaker 2: for Black, was various tru mental in getting me to

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Speaker 2: write the book because he felt, being a lot smarter

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Speaker 2: than me, that I had a story, a life story

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Speaker 2: that would help carry several messages at the same time.

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Speaker 2: And the biggest message, or the first message, is that

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Speaker 2: the agency is made up of honorable people, hard work

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Speaker 2: and individuals dedicated to the job. And it's nothing like

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Speaker 2: it is portrayed in the movies and in the novels.

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Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong. We have our bad guys, just

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Speaker 2: like you've had. I'm sure somebody here amiss that you

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Speaker 2: disagreed with or that betrayed you. But the main, the

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Speaker 2: primary reason was to honor my colleagues, which are all

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Speaker 2: people that are dedicated to the mission, individuals that have

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Speaker 2: the smarts and the backbone to go out and make

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Speaker 2: big money, you know, a private sector other jobs, and

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Speaker 2: they choose this kind of service.

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Speaker 1: And it's a service to the public, isn't it. Because

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Speaker 1: a skill set that the operators have that it's certainly

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Speaker 1: transferable to the private sector and they probably make a

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Speaker 1: lot of lot more money. So there has to be

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Speaker 1: something that's driving people to work work in that field.

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Speaker 1: You also, and I picked up I'm not sure if

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Speaker 1: it was in the book or one of the one

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Speaker 1: of the interviews that you've done, the fact that the

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Speaker 1: CIA have been like as a closed organization and in

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Speaker 1: some parts does a disservice to itself because people speculate

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Speaker 1: on what goes on, and I think a book like that,

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Speaker 1: like I'm reading through the book and go, okay, well,

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Speaker 1: how dark are we going to dive here? But you

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Speaker 1: really explain that then the decisions that are made and

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Speaker 1: the type of situations that you find yourself in.

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Speaker 2: Without a doubt. I mean, you know, I think that

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Speaker 2: you mentioned the moral compass from the very beginning. I

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Speaker 2: don't think that anybody volunteers to do law enforcement work,

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Speaker 2: or military work, or in my case, agency work without

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Speaker 2: having a higher cost and a higher belief. So for us,

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Speaker 2: that's that was the reason that I wanted to clarify.

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Speaker 2: And you mentioned how bad my agency is about permeating

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Speaker 2: good news, and that's something that I have actually tackled

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Speaker 2: as many times as I could that when there are

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Speaker 2: things that we can say that we succeeded and no

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Speaker 2: longer compromise sources and methods that we owe it to

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Speaker 2: the public to be able to get it out there.

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Speaker 2: Contrasts the FBI. They could have Ruby Ridge today and

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Speaker 2: tomorrow they shoot billing it. Well, we have a flap

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Speaker 2: and it comes out and everybody knows about it. But

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Speaker 2: I could you know, somebody could recruit Putin's secretary and

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Speaker 2: we can't go out and say, hey, we just recruited

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Speaker 2: Putin secretary. So it is a very ungrateful mistress when

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Speaker 2: it comes to.

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Speaker 1: That well described. I think the fact that the type

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Speaker 1: of work that's done, and even in the book, you've

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Speaker 1: taken us into the world without releasing too much of

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Speaker 1: the methodology an understanding of it. But it hasn't given

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Speaker 1: an advantage to the bad guys that people are chasing now.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely that, and as a matter of fact, my book

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Speaker 2: was fully clear by CIA for that very purpose. I wrote,

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Speaker 2: as you saw in the book, there are some many

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Speaker 2: blacked out areas, things that they did not let me

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Speaker 2: talk about. And I understand, I understand sources and methods,

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Speaker 2: but that was part of the process, a very lengthy process.

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Speaker 2: It took me six months to get it past the agency.

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Speaker 2: All approves, so I could actually then show it to

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Speaker 2: my publisher.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think you came back very good with all

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Speaker 1: the redacted parts it. It wasn't too overwhelming. I thought

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Speaker 1: you might have just had the heading and the rest

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Speaker 1: of it redacted in the end, but yeah, they left

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Speaker 1: a lot lot in the book. And it's been selling

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Speaker 1: very well too.

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Speaker 2: I thought, Yes, was a New York Times number eight

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Speaker 2: bestseller list and as of last count, sold over ninety

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Speaker 2: thousand copies, so it's doing okay.

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Speaker 1: So look at you now we can call you the

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Speaker 1: critically acclaimed author, not any of the CIA operative. Before

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Speaker 1: we get into your life and your career, I just

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Speaker 1: want to get a sense what the role of the

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Speaker 1: CIA is and if you could just break it down,

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Speaker 1: because we say it and basically the public's perception of

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Speaker 1: it is seen in the movies or the spy novels.

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Speaker 1: I get a sense of the type of work that

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Speaker 1: you do being involved in law enforcement. Could you just

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Speaker 1: explain to the public so that I get a sense

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Speaker 1: of what the role of the CIA is.

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Speaker 2: Well. First of all, and most importantly, we do not

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Speaker 2: operate in the United States. We're forbidden to operate in

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Speaker 2: the United States, So all our work is done overseas,

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Speaker 2: which means that not only do we have to recruit

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Speaker 2: people that are willing to go overseas, but they have

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Speaker 2: to learn a language. We can never send somebody to

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Speaker 2: a country that they cannot communicate, because that is part

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Speaker 2: of that's so much a big part of our work.

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Speaker 2: But the essence of the agency is to collect intelligence

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Speaker 2: the benefits our country, to protect our people. Obviously, there

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Speaker 2: is a second part of it, which is black ops.

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Speaker 2: That's the title of the book, which is covert operations

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Speaker 2: where the American hand has to be hidden, and that

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Speaker 2: comes under title fifty authorities that only the President gives

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Speaker 2: the CIA. UH. And I give you an example when

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Speaker 2: I when I was in Honduras at the very beginning

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Speaker 2: of my career, living in the jungle there with the countries,

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Speaker 2: that was a black op program. I was there as

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Speaker 2: a Honduran major, and UH, there was no advertisement of

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Speaker 2: the American hand. But at least for the first two

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Speaker 2: or three years, that was pretty sacro saint. Later on,

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Speaker 2: the same thing, you know, operating overseas and UH having

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Speaker 2: that view of how we do things.

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Speaker 1: UH.

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Speaker 2: And and protect.

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Speaker 1: Yep okay, your your childhood, which is fascinating in itself,

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Speaker 1: and I think it was the perhaps the driving force

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Speaker 1: of the path that your life took in the type

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Speaker 1: of work that you did. Could you tell our listeners

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Speaker 1: about your upbringing and what happened there and how that

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Speaker 1: shaped you as a person.

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Speaker 2: You know, Gary, I believe that God prepares us for

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Speaker 2: our path and if we have the fortitude of the

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Speaker 2: backbone to follow that path, we will do well. I

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Speaker 2: believe that, even though it was very painful at the beginning,

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Speaker 2: all the trials and tribulations that I did go through

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Speaker 2: forged my medal to end up being what I was

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Speaker 2: able to do. You know, I was a very happy

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Speaker 2: kid in Cuba. My dad was a middle class businessman

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Speaker 2: nineteen fifty ninety owned a fifty seven Pontiac. We had

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Speaker 2: a TV and a telephone, which was even by American standards.

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Speaker 2: I was solid in middle class and going from that

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Speaker 2: and within six months seeing my parents destroyed their business

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Speaker 2: taken over, you know, me wearing a uniform at the

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Speaker 2: age of seven or eight or nine, that was that

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Speaker 2: was quite a shock. Subsequent to that, my dad decided

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Speaker 2: that we're going to leave the country for freedom. But

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Speaker 2: my mom and dad couldn't get out at the same time.

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Speaker 2: So a program that came from the Catholic Church called

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Speaker 2: Pavel Pound Peter Penn program took out four thousand somehadd

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Speaker 2: kids out of Cuba under the similar need, and I

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Speaker 2: ended up in an orphanage in Pueblo, Colorado. Pueblo, Colorado

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Speaker 2: back today is still a blue collar town. Imagine back

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Speaker 2: in sixty two, it was a pretty rough learning experience.

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Speaker 2: You get into an organization that has three or four

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Speaker 2: different nationalities, two or three different languages, you know, and

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Speaker 2: a lot of pissed off kids because nobody likes to

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Speaker 2: be an orphan. So I had to grow up pretty

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Speaker 2: quick from the nice life in Cuba where everybody was

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Speaker 2: my friend, to making friends that would stick with you

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Speaker 2: and vice versa.

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Speaker 1: So and with the leaving Cuba, what was happening at

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Speaker 1: that time that made your parents think it's better the

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Speaker 1: ship you overseas to a country they've never been to,

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Speaker 1: You haven't been to, you don't speak the native language.

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Speaker 1: What was it there that was occurring in Cuba?

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Speaker 2: Well, would you have the cast for revolution had just

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Speaker 2: taken place? Took place in January of fifty nine, and

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Speaker 2: though he was welcomed by the masses, including my parents.

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Speaker 2: It became very obvious very shortly that he was a communist,

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Speaker 2: and that he started confiscating not only foreign businesses, which

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Speaker 2: was bad enough, but local business. You know, my dad's

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Speaker 2: coffee business was confiscated and he had I think he

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Speaker 2: hired ten people. He had ten employees. So it's it's

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Speaker 2: not like we were, you know, an imperialist company of

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Speaker 2: some sort. But it was communism. It was it was

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Speaker 2: they taken away of freedoms, the indoctrinations and the schools,

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Speaker 2: you know, telling us that if our parents spoke bad

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Speaker 2: of the revolution, we had to turn them in. It

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Speaker 2: we just that that I'm Beyonce of fear that permeated.

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Speaker 2: And my dad was a pretty tough guy. He was

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Speaker 2: a cowboy before he was a businessman. Literally he used

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Speaker 2: to run my grandfather's for a ranch and he was

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Speaker 2: very good at making quick decisions that he did. He says,

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Speaker 2: we got to get out of here. And I think

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Speaker 2: the most important point is that we left Cuba for freedom.

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Speaker 2: We had a middle classicsistence and we came to the

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Speaker 2: United States and I will tell you that we were

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Speaker 2: sub poverty for at least the first four or five years.

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Speaker 2: So it was quite a fraastic change to my mom

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Speaker 2: working on a sweatshop sewing, my dad working two jobs.

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Speaker 2: It was quite quite a change for us. But freedom

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Speaker 2: drove it. And I think the point that you made

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Speaker 2: is most excellent and very important to me. My parents

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Speaker 2: are the ones that sacrifice. A lot of people go, oh,

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Speaker 2: poor Rick, you had to go through. No imagine taking

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Speaker 2: your only child and put him in an airplane to

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Speaker 2: a country that you may never even be able to

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Speaker 2: visit for freedom.

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Speaker 1: I can't even comprehend it, Rick, like it's really but

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Speaker 1: I think that typifies the character of your parents to

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Speaker 1: start with. But what was going on in your country

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Speaker 1: and with the communists that you've seen that throughout your

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Speaker 1: career and will break your career down. But you've seen

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Speaker 1: that type of thing where it all looks fine when

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Speaker 1: the new regimes coming in the communist regime, but it

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Speaker 1: doesn't always play out the way it's designed or sold

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Speaker 1: in the first place.

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Speaker 2: Without a doubt. I mean, if you can name me

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Speaker 2: one country that has thrived with communism, I will give

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Speaker 2: you a praise. I mean, look at Venezuela, look at Cuba.

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Speaker 2: The standard of living in Cuba was third, with all

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Speaker 2: of the hemisphere in behind the United States, and I

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Speaker 2: don't know what else it was. So without a doubt

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Speaker 2: it is socialism is nothing more than a mask that

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Speaker 2: communism wears to get into your skin. And the only

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Speaker 2: people that benefit from communism are the leaders. And you

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Speaker 2: could see that in Soviet Russia, some of the leaders

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Speaker 2: had car collections that were worth millions of dollars. The

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Speaker 2: castros have millions and hundreds of millions of dollars that

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Speaker 2: they've stashed away. So the people are barely eating. Cuba

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Speaker 2: right now is going through a tremendous, tremendous hard times

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Speaker 2: and the weather isn't helping there. They're on their third

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Speaker 2: hurricane in the last few months. But the people are suffering.

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Speaker 2: But you know, the the nomenclature that runs it or not.

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Speaker 2: And there's a joke in Cuba that if you see

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Speaker 2: a house that has been painted in the last ten years,

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Speaker 2: you know that it's a party member.

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Speaker 1: That's it's obvious. But well, that's what the world has

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Speaker 1: shined in the history recent history is sh shine just

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Speaker 1: what you've you've said, and it's interesting you say shining

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Speaker 1: an example, because there's not examples where it's gone. Well.

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Speaker 1: Getting back to you, Okay, you've got a bit of

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Speaker 1: the cowboy in you. Growing up, you were reunited with

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Speaker 1: your parents, but you know you were struggling. Or when

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Speaker 1: say struggling, they had to work hard to make their

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Speaker 1: life in the new country. Where did your your path

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Speaker 1: take you. I know you found martial arts which kept

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Speaker 1: you out of trouble for a bit and stead you

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Speaker 1: gave you some commitment. But tell us about those early years,

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Speaker 1: the adolescent years.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was lucky that my parents came out less

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Speaker 2: than a year after I left, so other kids had

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Speaker 2: it a lot worse than I did. But you know,

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Speaker 2: the one thing that I always have was parental love

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Speaker 2: and parental guidance and a great example from a mom

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Speaker 2: and a dad. But I did start the martial arts

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Speaker 2: when I was fifteen years old. I was fascinated by it.

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Speaker 2: I I embraced it, and to this day I still

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Speaker 2: train in different arts. But I did have a falling

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Speaker 2: out of hanging out with a role in culture. And

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Speaker 2: what happened was, you know, the experiences and the in

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Speaker 2: the in the orphanage ingrained in me the fact that

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Speaker 2: if I take crap from people, they're just going to

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Speaker 2: keep giving me crap. So my tolerance for people getting

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Speaker 2: in my face was very very short. So in school,

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Speaker 2: I would hang out with mostly the tough kids, and

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Speaker 2: I used to get good grades. I was always at

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Speaker 2: least a B student, but I used to get in

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Speaker 2: trouble for fighting all the time because there were again

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Speaker 2: different cultural things going on, the Cubans coming into Miami,

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Speaker 2: the blacks trying to come out, you know, the white

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Speaker 2: population that that conflict was very, very alive and well

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Speaker 2: when I was growing up, But that was a very

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Speaker 2: short period. That was just a few years of hanging

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Speaker 2: out with the wrong crowd. Most of those guys, as

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Speaker 2: a matter of fact, the majority of those guys are

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Speaker 2: either dead in jail or became police officers, so and

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Speaker 2: I in spy. So it was that kind of a

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Speaker 2: growing up thing. That said, I realized very early on

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Speaker 2: that I did have a debt of honor to the

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Speaker 2: United States. And there's there's a small piece in the

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Speaker 2: book where I was in my first semester of college

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Speaker 2: and these were the hippie years. This is nineteen seventy

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Speaker 2: seventy one, and they were gonna they put it. They

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Speaker 2: posted that tomorrow they were going to take down the

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Speaker 2: American flag and burn it. And I said to myself, now,

351
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Speaker 2: that's not going to happen. But I didn't have any

352
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Speaker 2: friends in college. I was fresh news, so I had

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Speaker 2: to go back to my high school homies. And it

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Speaker 2: was I think five of us and about twenty of them.

355
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Speaker 2: And it wasn't much of a fair fight.

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Speaker 1: They didn't get to tight the flag.

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Speaker 2: Then, no, they did not. As a matter of fact,

358
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Speaker 2: they lost all their beads and T shirts. But the

359
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Speaker 2: thing is, though, and this was critical, critical in my life.

360
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Speaker 2: It may sound a little melo dramatic, but I looked

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Speaker 2: up and it was a beautiful blue sky and there's

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Speaker 2: that American flag, and I realized that for the first

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Speaker 2: time in my life, I had done violence for the

364
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Speaker 2: right reasons. Six months later, getting a special operations team

365
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Speaker 2: called Pair of Rescue, which is the part of the

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Speaker 2: Air Force Special Operations guys, and my goal was to

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Speaker 2: go to Vietnam and keep fighting.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I think there's a pathway people often take, and

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of people when you talk about

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Speaker 1: your friends, they ever end up in jail, dead, or police,

371
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Speaker 1: military or whatever. Sometimes if you like the excitement and

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Speaker 1: you find okay, you can actually fight for the right reason,

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Speaker 1: and I dare say what you what you felt there was, Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is all right. You can have the excitement of

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Speaker 1: the fight, but you're doing it for the right reason.

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Speaker 2: Of course, and that I think that's what drives most

377
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Speaker 2: of us, I mean, your profession included. You know, police

378
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Speaker 2: officers don't go out to become popular. They do not

379
00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:49,479
Speaker 2: go out to become millionaires. They go out because they

380
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,120
Speaker 2: want to serve. But you know, the action is the juice,

381
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Speaker 2: the fact that you can come in and make a

382
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Speaker 2: difference and save a live or wrong, you know, right

383
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Speaker 2: or wrong. That's a hell of a rush. And doing

384
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Speaker 2: it especially in the dangerous and circumstances that we both

385
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Speaker 2: both our worlds operate in. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't know about you, but you talk the juice,

387
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Speaker 1: and I understand that you're chasing the excitement. That's what

388
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,399
Speaker 1: drove me at the start. But as you become a

389
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,960
Speaker 1: little bit more wiser and you see actually how it

390
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:21,000
Speaker 1: all plays out, and you see the impact of the

391
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Speaker 1: things that you're doing and what you're looking at, who

392
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Speaker 1: you're trying to protect, it's sort of the changes like

393
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Speaker 1: the juice is the excitement at the start, but then

394
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Speaker 1: you start to go on the path that you're doing

395
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Speaker 1: it because you know it's the right thing to do.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely rate. You're one hundred percent rate.

397
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Speaker 1: So you joined the military. That wasn't you weren't too

398
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Speaker 1: popular with your mum because the Vietnam War was still

399
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 1: going on at that stage. You had dreams of ending

400
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Speaker 1: up in there. But you got a bit Your mum

401
00:21:50,359 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 1: was a little bit pissed off to to say the least,

402
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,080
Speaker 1: when you're signed up. But they let you go. But

403
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 1: the war came to a conclusion.

404
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we still had the draft at a time, but

405
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:03,280
Speaker 2: my draft number was so high that my parents were

406
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Speaker 2: happy because they knew that I was going to get drafted,

407
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:08,920
Speaker 2: and you know, at the time, but I didn't realize it. Uh,

408
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Speaker 2: And I you know, I was kind of angry at

409
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Speaker 2: my parents that they didn't understand that I wanted to

410
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 2: do this. But then I realized they already had lost

411
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Speaker 2: their son once and now here he is an idiot

412
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Speaker 2: going out and trying to get himself killed again. So

413
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Speaker 2: now I understand a lot better being a parent than

414
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:32,600
Speaker 2: everything else, what what their angle was. But without a doubt,

415
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Speaker 2: I mean, my my whole thing was to go into

416
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Speaker 2: into uh para rescue, which I was lucky enough to

417
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Speaker 2: make through hard work and and and uh and determination.

418
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Speaker 2: But you know that that's what led me eventually to

419
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Speaker 2: to the agency.

420
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Speaker 1: I sorry described the power rescue because that's people I

421
00:22:52,080 --> 00:22:55,160
Speaker 1: don't think fully understand what that is, but that's that's

422
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,119
Speaker 1: high level para military stuff.

423
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is. This part of the special operations community.

424
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Speaker 2: You know have a you Navy seals that are more

425
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: known green berets, and Para Rescue is one of two

426
00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,199
Speaker 2: special operations forces that are the Air Force. The other

427
00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 2: it was our sister Calmbat controllers and the main job

428
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:20,480
Speaker 2: of Para Rescue is to go retrieve either down pilots

429
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Speaker 2: or special operations guys who get caught in the Netherlands.

430
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Speaker 2: So our training is brutal.

431
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Speaker 1: It is.

432
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Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, we go through the same

433
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Speaker 2: scuba school that the Navy. When I went through through

434
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Speaker 2: underwater receiving school, all my all my instructors for seals

435
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 2: and at the time only pair of rescue and seals

436
00:23:41,240 --> 00:23:44,000
Speaker 2: had to go through scuba school in order to get

437
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,000
Speaker 2: your beret or your trident or whatever it was. At

438
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: the end. So it was uh, you know, mountain climbing, parachuting, survival, obviously,

439
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,360
Speaker 2: the scuba, scuba, scuba and and but all as meat.

440
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 2: And of course the medical. We are combat medics because

441
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:05,920
Speaker 2: you go get a team that is under duress and

442
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,040
Speaker 2: one guy's got a broken leg, you got to fix

443
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 2: them before you can transport on. So we got pretty

444
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: good at that. And I'm very very very proud that

445
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 2: I that I joined Para Rescue because I think he

446
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 2: made me a better man. And it was literally my

447
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 2: venue into the agency.

448
00:24:22,119 --> 00:24:25,399
Speaker 1: Well, it certainly gave you a skill set that allowed

449
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 1: you to do the do the work in the agency.

450
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,000
Speaker 1: You people would ask, aka, how do you get in

451
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,879
Speaker 1: the CIA? I think you've made one application and it

452
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,119
Speaker 1: was sort of I'm good for this, I speak Spanish,

453
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: blah blah blah, I've done this, but you're rejected. Tell

454
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: us the story how and also why you decided to

455
00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 1: go into that area.

456
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,359
Speaker 2: Well, you know, the thing was I was having a

457
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: blast and pair of rescue. You know, I was jumping

458
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,720
Speaker 2: every other day, I was scuba diving one so big

459
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 2: I was doing but there was no purpose. It was

460
00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 2: training for training sake, and we knew Vietnam was over

461
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,960
Speaker 2: a few months after I, you know, got my bereat

462
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,199
Speaker 2: Vietnam was pretty much done with. So I had this

463
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 2: itch that I have all this training, but all I'm

464
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,159
Speaker 2: doing is getting more training and getting better out of

465
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 2: training that I don't see, you know, the light at

466
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,800
Speaker 2: the end of the tunnel before I died to be

467
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,400
Speaker 2: able to actually do something. And we have a lot

468
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: of people that post Vietnam, you know, they made a

469
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 2: career and they never went to war. You know, it

470
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:29,159
Speaker 2: just it just it is what happens. So I applied,

471
00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 2: Like you said, I applied to the CIA in nineteen

472
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:36,440
Speaker 2: seventy four, that's right after the Vietnam and there was

473
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: huge attritions Vietnam War of both our military and our

474
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,439
Speaker 2: intelligence services that were decimated. So the note that I

475
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,880
Speaker 2: got back basically said thanks, but we're firing, not hiring

476
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:53,280
Speaker 2: kind of thing. So I stayed in the reserves and

477
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:58,280
Speaker 2: I became a paramedic with the Miami Metro Fire Department.

478
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,680
Speaker 2: And that was great because I that further honed my

479
00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,920
Speaker 2: paramedic skills as a p pj's what the cold pair

480
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 2: of rescue guys, as a parent jumper, and it was

481
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,919
Speaker 2: that very thing that allowed me to get into the CIA.

482
00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 2: I applied again in nineteen eighty. I had changed reserves.

483
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 2: I was now with a National Guard Green Beret unit.

484
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,119
Speaker 2: I was never a green beret. I was on my

485
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 2: process to get that qualification. Also when the agency this

486
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 2: time they accepted me because Ronald Reagan had just taken

487
00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 2: over and the first thing that he did was declare

488
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 2: war on communism worldwide, including the Soviet Union, but definitely

489
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: in our backyard. And when he made the band aid

490
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 2: that the agency was supposed to support the Nicaraguan countries

491
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 2: that were fighting the communists and Denistas that were being

492
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:56,919
Speaker 2: buoyed by Cuba or by the Soviet Union via Cuba.

493
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 2: The attrition of the agency you had been such that

494
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 2: they have a native Spanish speaking paramilitary officers. Okay, they

495
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 2: had great paramilitary officers. We have incredible special forces. I

496
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:14,720
Speaker 2: did eleven My first eleven years was with Special Activities Division,

497
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 2: but they did not have the native Spanish and they

498
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: had native Spanish speakers, but they do have the paramilitary training.

499
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 2: So that's that's how well that was my toil.

500
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: You had the perfect, perfect combination. Now for people say,

501
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: because the next three years and I'll let you describe

502
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: the next three years of the work that you did

503
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: working at working over there. I got to say, i'm

504
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: reading it, I was cringing at the thought of what

505
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,840
Speaker 1: confronted you going in there on your own, And yeah,

506
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,399
Speaker 1: you had to use every skill set available for a person,

507
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: negotiating skills, being able to befriend people, to lead people,

508
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,760
Speaker 1: to train people, and also you're fighting skills that you

509
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: you had. So tell us about that, because that is,

510
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:04,480
Speaker 1: honestly just an absolute adventure. This is a type of

511
00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: thing that they do see movies about that. People. I'm thinking,

512
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:10,080
Speaker 1: who are these dudes going there? Tell us about it?

513
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I'm very proud of that that period.

514
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: And actually they often asked me, what is the best

515
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:17,840
Speaker 2: job I ever had in the agency? And it's hard

516
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 2: because I had a lot of great jobs, but that

517
00:28:20,160 --> 00:28:22,399
Speaker 2: one was very close to home. Gary, because you have

518
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: to understand that now, as a thirty year old man,

519
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:31,520
Speaker 2: I am helping freedom fighters fight the same monster that

520
00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: destroyed my first country. So I did. I did three years,

521
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 2: a little over three years, living literally Monday through Friday

522
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 2: in the jungles between Nicaragua and Honduras for the first

523
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,480
Speaker 2: fourteen months of that program. I was the only CIA

524
00:28:49,520 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 2: officer allowed to go to the camps because it was

525
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:55,880
Speaker 2: built a black op. It needed the hand American hand

526
00:28:56,440 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 2: needed that I was there as at hon Durham Major.

527
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: So it was the most rewarding time of my life.

528
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 2: And people look at me and go, you spent three

529
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: years sleeping in a jungle hammock. How'd you put up?

530
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: I said. I was always thrilled. I was newly married.

531
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:13,840
Speaker 2: I'm married to the best woman in the world that

532
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 2: had no problems with me leaving Monday morning at four

533
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning and coming back Friday at midnight

534
00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: and spending the weekend and doing it again because she

535
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 2: also is Cuban. She also lived actually she lived under

536
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 2: Communism a lot longer than I did. So that period

537
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:31,800
Speaker 2: was very rewarding in that sense. The other part of it, too,

538
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: is that the quality of the people that I was

539
00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:42,520
Speaker 2: dealing with. We're talking primarily peasants, and you know, every

540
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: night after because I'd be training them all day whatever

541
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 2: it was, and the night I would grab a cup

542
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 2: of coffee and circulate with the different fire fires that

543
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,840
Speaker 2: were there that people were warming up or whatever, and

544
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,960
Speaker 2: I would ask them why are you here, and there

545
00:29:57,040 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 2: wasn't a single one to say, well, you know, I

546
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: read Lenon and let you know, I don't I don't

547
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 2: believe in communism. It was like they raped my daughter,

548
00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 2: They forced my son to conscript it to the military

549
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 2: at the age of fifteen. They beat up my priests

550
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 2: and burnt my church. It was all personal. It was pure.

551
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: These individuals had given up everything and were living in squalor.

552
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 2: Because even with our help, you're still living in you know,

553
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: in the woods. So it was very rewarding to know

554
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:33,080
Speaker 2: that what I was imparting on them the one thing

555
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,800
Speaker 2: they did not lack. They lacked training, and they lacked logistics,

556
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 2: but they did not lack conviction and courage.

557
00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:44,000
Speaker 1: When you're actually a sign that that operation mission, can

558
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:47,000
Speaker 1: you just talk us through? Like you're basically getting dropped

559
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 1: into meet with a group of people. They're fighting people,

560
00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: and they're fighting a just cause they're passionate about it.

561
00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: There's a lot of mistrust in that environment. Who's you know,

562
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: whose side are you really on? Who is this this person?

563
00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:05,680
Speaker 1: I think they had some Argentine operatives helping out that

564
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: they didn't get on with too well or didn't quite trust.

565
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 1: Then Rick rolls up on his own and Hi, guys,

566
00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:16,040
Speaker 1: I'm here talk us through that. How did how did

567
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: you build relationships? How did you work your way into

568
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: that organization?

569
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: Well? Yeah, first of all, I think that my street savvy,

570
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: my street skills that you understand better than the average person,

571
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,920
Speaker 2: came in very handy because I knew when to be

572
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: nice and when not to look like food. So I

573
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,080
Speaker 2: had to my ground in many cases. There were two

574
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: senior agency officers, and of course we had a station

575
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: in Tegucigapa, Honduras, and they were in charge of the program.

576
00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 2: But I had no training by the agency. I signed

577
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,280
Speaker 2: up on a Thursday, showed up on a Monday, and

578
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,040
Speaker 2: two weeks later I was not Rick Prado anymore. I

579
00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,560
Speaker 2: was Alex Bendez. Giving me a blue pad sport and

580
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 2: sent to Honduras and Mike marching. Orders were you have

581
00:32:04,440 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 2: two kernels over there that are ours. Do what they

582
00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 2: tell you. And when I got to the ground, they

583
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 2: looked at me and they said, you're going to go

584
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:14,240
Speaker 2: to the camps. You've got to make yourself indispendable. You

585
00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: go to get gain their trust, do whatever it takes

586
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:20,680
Speaker 2: to win them over and get us to help them.

587
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: So that was one of the reasons that we ran

588
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,920
Speaker 2: a foul of the Argentines because the Argentines were there,

589
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,000
Speaker 2: and I give them credit that they they supported the

590
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 2: country program earlier on minuscule because I believe what I

591
00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:38,600
Speaker 2: saw the first six months that I was there was

592
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,960
Speaker 2: living in mud and squalor and in malaria and leshmaniases

593
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,800
Speaker 2: and everything else. But they for them it became a

594
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 2: motus evening they were getting per diem from the United States.

595
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 2: I never saw an Argentina in a camp all the

596
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: time that I was there. So but for me, when

597
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 2: I got to the camps and I could speak the language,

598
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:02,280
Speaker 2: and I could have shoot any of the guys they had,

599
00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:04,600
Speaker 2: and I could rucksack them, and I can teach them

600
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 2: communications and patrolling and hand to hand and all these things.

601
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,680
Speaker 2: You know, you you've been through training, you you admire instructors.

602
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: There's a certain royalty that a good instructor UH earns

603
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: when when they're teaching their supporter. That's and uh I

604
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:25,280
Speaker 2: I I still have friends from from that era. I

605
00:33:25,320 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 2: still have commanders that we stay in touch with because

606
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,440
Speaker 2: you know, they knew that I was there for them.

607
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: You know that they they figured out that I was

608
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 2: not Honduran, but they didn't care.

609
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: It's clear you gain gained their respect. And there was

610
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: a lot of different little groups too, so it wasn't

611
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: just went over one lot that you were moving from

612
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: camp to camp. But I just found that extraordinary that

613
00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:51,320
Speaker 1: and we haven't even touched on like the conditions of

614
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 1: physical conditions like living in living in the jungle, like

615
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: tough time. So I can understand why you look back

616
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: at that and with with pride, because it's something that

617
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,560
Speaker 1: not many people could do, but you you seem to

618
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: flourish with it.

619
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it's funny. I look back now at

620
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 2: seventy three and I go, what were you thinking? But

621
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 2: immediately I know what I was feeling, and I think

622
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 2: that that was what it was all about. I was

623
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: finally making a difference. I was there helping people, which

624
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,600
Speaker 2: was what was driving my boat, and it was extremely

625
00:34:27,680 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 2: rewarding and it did launch my career because again part

626
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 2: of the blessing was I was the only guy in

627
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 2: the camps for the first year and a half of

628
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,720
Speaker 2: that time, so my name was known to just about

629
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 2: every division chief and back at CIA, who is this

630
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 2: guy kind of stuff, and so that secured my career.

631
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:50,399
Speaker 2: I didn't have my college. I only had two years

632
00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:53,400
Speaker 2: of college when I went into the agency. And to

633
00:34:53,480 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: become an operations officer, paramilitary and case officer, you have

634
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 2: to have a four year degree. So they actually sponsored

635
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,560
Speaker 2: me to finish my education at George Mason University of

636
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 2: Mason University, India in the Virginia. And from there I

637
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 2: went to our farm which is our Masters and espionage.

638
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:17,480
Speaker 2: That's where you look did the craft of very esoteric

639
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 2: color of grass.

640
00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:22,839
Speaker 1: I find it interesting. I look at that the three

641
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:26,319
Speaker 1: years that you spent there. It's almost like, well, if

642
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: he survives, he's got his credibility, and now we'll invest

643
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,839
Speaker 1: some invest some time in just before we move out

644
00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 1: of that that deployment, because you had three years, I

645
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 1: found it interesting. You also the people that you were supporting,

646
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 1: you had to they lost their leader or one of

647
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,520
Speaker 1: the groups lost their leader too took over and their

648
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,960
Speaker 1: moral compass had slipped. The power went to their head

649
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:51,319
Speaker 1: and you had to rain them in. Can you just

650
00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,640
Speaker 1: tell us that story in the circumstances there, because I

651
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 1: thought it was again that typifies the type of pressure

652
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:01,280
Speaker 1: you're under not only you helping those people fought an enemy,

653
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 1: you've also got to keep them in control.

654
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, one of my favorite commanders, come on there,

655
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,960
Speaker 2: SWU see that which means suicidal. That should give you

656
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 2: a hit. Why why I liked him? He was killed

657
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,960
Speaker 2: and the guy that took over became cattle rustlers. I

658
00:36:16,960 --> 00:36:19,280
Speaker 2: mean they were They had more guns than the local

659
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: Hondurance by that time, they had more guns than the

660
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,480
Speaker 2: local Hondurance did and and they started abusing. And as

661
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:28,120
Speaker 2: a matter of fact, the the biggest and most egregious

662
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:31,480
Speaker 2: act that they committed was there was one sub commander

663
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,760
Speaker 2: who opposed them, and they tied him to a tree,

664
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 2: raped his wife in front of him, and then shot him.

665
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,440
Speaker 2: Uh that's the exception, not the rule. The majority of

666
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 2: these people were good. So, you know, being the only

667
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 2: CIA guy at the camps, the local Hondurance that my

668
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,840
Speaker 2: boss and said fix it, and I was said to

669
00:36:52,840 --> 00:36:57,759
Speaker 2: fix it. So I literally renditioned both these guys, uh separately.

670
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:01,919
Speaker 2: Both tried resist. It didn't work very well for them,

671
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 2: and I brought them back to Tutagusigapa where they were

672
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 2: put under a military trial and convicted accordingly.

673
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, now it's a fascinating, fascinating time to be CIA

674
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: of a fully fledged member. I understand that you need

675
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:25,319
Speaker 1: tertiary qualifications like degrees, so they sponsored you to go

676
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: to the Union. I'm probably describing this a bit roughly,

677
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: but to polish you up a little bit, to give

678
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: you the say you could work in any environment that

679
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 1: we know you can do the military stuff in the

680
00:37:36,719 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 1: tough environments. But this is to polish you up so

681
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,360
Speaker 1: we can present you anywhere. Talks through that process.

682
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, it was a great challenge. Obviously, you

683
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 2: know I did have a good upringing, so you know,

684
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:52,319
Speaker 2: I knew how to dress rate, I knew how to

685
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 2: do things. But for those first three years of the Agency,

686
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,759
Speaker 2: I was a blunt object. And now I asked to

687
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:05,719
Speaker 2: be a surgical, very finesse individual that can you fit

688
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,319
Speaker 2: in as a diplomat or a foreign businessman. And so

689
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:11,360
Speaker 2: you have to be polished. And part of it is

690
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:16,839
Speaker 2: that your education. My degree was intercultural conflicts, in other words,

691
00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,960
Speaker 2: what pisses people off with each other, from religion to

692
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:24,879
Speaker 2: politics to everything in between. And I did very well

693
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 2: at the farm. I was in the top three of

694
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:32,000
Speaker 2: my class. But again I had that motivation. And again

695
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:35,839
Speaker 2: this is where my Streak experience has really helped. There

696
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 2: was one particular vignette where this Asia expert was testing

697
00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 2: us on doing what we call dead drops. You do

698
00:38:43,719 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: a surveillance detection route. I mean, you sure know you're

699
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:50,360
Speaker 2: not being followed and you lay down covert communications that

700
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 2: are hidden in a branch or whatever the hell it

701
00:38:52,360 --> 00:38:55,239
Speaker 2: was back then. It's sol electronic now. And when I

702
00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:58,480
Speaker 2: did my stint, the guy came over and said to me.

703
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,319
Speaker 2: Luckily he was kidding, but he says, I'm reporting you

704
00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:05,120
Speaker 2: to the FBI. And I said why. He goes, you've

705
00:39:05,160 --> 00:39:08,879
Speaker 2: had prior training, and then he started laughing. He says,

706
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:11,719
Speaker 2: good job. But that's what it was. I was a

707
00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,280
Speaker 2: street kid. I knew how to blend in. I knew

708
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: I had that feeling and that confidence, and that that

709
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,840
Speaker 2: really helped me tremendously. So it was a learning experience,

710
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:23,919
Speaker 2: a lot of writing. That's where one of the things

711
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: you never see in James Bond books or movies is

712
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 2: James Bond coming back from a mission, sitting it down

713
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 2: at his desk and spending six hours writing it up.

714
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: So and by the way, I'm still waiting for my

715
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:39,040
Speaker 2: Austin Martin, I haven't got it yet, So it's it's

716
00:39:39,160 --> 00:39:42,120
Speaker 2: very different than what people understand our careers to be.

717
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 1: And that that accountability too. But the tride craft that

718
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: you learn at the farm, are they the type of

719
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,680
Speaker 1: skills they put the put you through, like anti surviolence

720
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,600
Speaker 1: and how to make a drop as you said, is

721
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,280
Speaker 1: that the type of thing that they run you through.

722
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean they run you through the gamut. I

723
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 2: mean again, our main job is to recruit foreign spy,

724
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:08,920
Speaker 2: so there's a very methological, you know, a system for

725
00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 2: doing that, you know, the spotting the right individuals, developing them,

726
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,720
Speaker 2: recruiting them, running them, vetting them. That's all finesse stuff.

727
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:22,399
Speaker 2: And you're you're working undercover because you can't go into

728
00:40:22,400 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 2: a foreign country. Go Hi, I'm from the CIA, which

729
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: they can't. So we have to live whatever cover we

730
00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 2: have worked. You know, I worked eight hours of the

731
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,840
Speaker 2: embassy and then I went out and did my stuff

732
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 2: on the side. So from recruiting to handling agents. That

733
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:42,879
Speaker 2: that's all part of the training obviously, covert communications, photography,

734
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,759
Speaker 2: and like you said, trade craft. Tradecraft is something that

735
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:51,560
Speaker 2: is so kind intuitive. We have to take pleasures that

736
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 2: assure us that we're not being followed and thus compromise

737
00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,960
Speaker 2: ourselves and the agent or the person that we're trying

738
00:40:57,960 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 2: to recruit. So there's there's a lot of that finesse

739
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 2: in there. Our guys and gals are also trained in

740
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 2: the paramilitary side of the house. I didn't have to

741
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,400
Speaker 2: go through that because I already had all that training.

742
00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, it was guys like me

743
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 2: who would impart that on the students. But you know,

744
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 2: these college kids, they had to jump out of airplanes,

745
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 2: they had to repel out of helicopters, not because they

746
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:24,960
Speaker 2: were going to necessarily do that, and some have, but

747
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:27,279
Speaker 2: you know, it was mainly, you know, to test your

748
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,680
Speaker 2: metal and to build your metal, as you call when

749
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:32,799
Speaker 2: when you're going through that kind of training, it really

750
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 2: forges your sword.

751
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: So to prepare them for what they what they might

752
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,479
Speaker 1: go into with the trade craft. In the book, you've

753
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:44,399
Speaker 1: talked about the situational awareness and the importance of that,

754
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,680
Speaker 1: and you had a system set up with the white, yellow, orange,

755
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 1: red system talk us through that because that I think

756
00:41:52,000 --> 00:41:54,439
Speaker 1: gives people an insight. The fact that the system has

757
00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,359
Speaker 1: been set in place gives you an insight that you

758
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 1: are living life on the edge, when you're operating under

759
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:04,279
Speaker 1: covertly and the consequences a high Can you break down

760
00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:05,960
Speaker 1: that the structure of it, because I thought it was

761
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,560
Speaker 1: a simple and you need simple things in these complex situations,

762
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 1: with a simple way of making sure you're aware of

763
00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 1: what's going on.

764
00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 2: Absolutely. The color system was created by a colonel, a

765
00:42:18,120 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 2: retiring Marine Colonel Cooper. Colonel Cooper, and he started the

766
00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:27,319
Speaker 2: first real viable gun fighting school for law enforcement and

767
00:42:27,360 --> 00:42:30,680
Speaker 2: military guys. He was a big nineteen eleven forty five

768
00:42:30,719 --> 00:42:35,280
Speaker 2: caliber guy and he's the one that made these colors.

769
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:39,880
Speaker 2: And the colors are white, yellow, orange, and red. You

770
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,279
Speaker 2: should never be in way unless you're in bed with

771
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: your wife. Period. Yellow. It is what you live in.

772
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: It doesn't mean that you're paranoid. It means that you

773
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 2: are aware. You get to a stop sign, you look

774
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,879
Speaker 2: in your mirror, you look at what access you may have.

775
00:42:55,680 --> 00:42:58,279
Speaker 2: You know, you see what's going on. You're not surprised.

776
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:02,000
Speaker 2: When you go into orange is when you see something

777
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:06,000
Speaker 2: that you say, hmm. I'll give you any example. I'm

778
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:10,319
Speaker 2: driving down in the streets of the Philippines and I

779
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,280
Speaker 2: see a car that is parked over there. The trunk

780
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 2: is open and the guy is fiddling around in the trunk. Well,

781
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,399
Speaker 2: most people go home. He got a flat tire, Well,

782
00:43:19,520 --> 00:43:22,279
Speaker 2: I looked eating. I have a flat tire. So immediately

783
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 2: I go to Orange where now I plan what I'm

784
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:32,160
Speaker 2: gonna do if indeed it is a threat. And then

785
00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:35,560
Speaker 2: red means implement. So if that guy brings out a

786
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 2: tire iron and a tire, I go there's nothing. But

787
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:42,560
Speaker 2: if he brings out an AK forty seven, I can

788
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: run him over with my car. Or I can do

789
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 2: reverse one eighty. I could do all kinds of things.

790
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 2: But if you are caught in the X by surprise,

791
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: chances are you're not going to make it. So those

792
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,480
Speaker 2: colors are are essential. But I will tell you that

793
00:43:57,680 --> 00:44:01,279
Speaker 2: awareness beats fast drawer every time. And and there's a

794
00:44:01,360 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 2: story that that that you alluded to in the Philippines

795
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: where we were there training the Philippines Special Forces guys

796
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,439
Speaker 2: uh in fighting the nationally No People's Army and who

797
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,239
Speaker 2: was a Communist back insurgency that had killed Colonel Nick

798
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,560
Speaker 2: Roe just a few months before I got there, et cetera,

799
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:23,240
Speaker 2: et cetera. And so we we had had long day's

800
00:44:23,239 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 2: work and two our army captains Special Forces of the Filipinos,

801
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:31,640
Speaker 2: two of my texts and me and another case officer

802
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 2: went to have dinner and and and a beer at

803
00:44:34,520 --> 00:44:37,319
Speaker 2: a at a place. And when we walked out, the

804
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,359
Speaker 2: two military guys walked out, the two technical guys walked out,

805
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 2: my friend walked out, and I walked out. And as

806
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:47,200
Speaker 2: soon as I walked out, I see these three guys

807
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 2: standing there. They were talking. When we came out, they

808
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:55,920
Speaker 2: got three abreast. They had their left hand in their pocket.

809
00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:00,120
Speaker 2: And there's a there's a modus of perandi of a

810
00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:04,280
Speaker 2: team called the Sparrows, and you could google that. It's dramatic.

811
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:08,840
Speaker 2: It's a guy that we captured and he he showed

812
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,600
Speaker 2: what they did, and that's they pushed the gun. The

813
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: gun was the grip, safety was taped down. They did

814
00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 2: not carry a holster. All they did was with a

815
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 2: left hand, push the gun up, shoot you put it

816
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 2: back in, and walk off. And everybody's looking at the

817
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: dead person when they start looking around. They were ghosts.

818
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 2: So as soon as those guys, I saw those guys,

819
00:45:29,719 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 2: the two outside with the left hands of their pocket,

820
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:35,960
Speaker 2: I went on operational mode. I drew my weapon and

821
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,480
Speaker 2: taking that safety off was the loudest click, the loudest

822
00:45:39,520 --> 00:45:42,640
Speaker 2: noise I think I've ever heard. Because you get tunnel vision,

823
00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 2: you get auto tour exclusion. And it was funny. You know, Gary,

824
00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 2: if you're if you're a civilian, or you're just somebody

825
00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 2: walking down the street and somebody points a gun at

826
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 2: you this way, what's your reaction. You're at least gonna go,

827
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,640
Speaker 2: hey man, whoa, WHOA, what's going on? These guys didn't

828
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,920
Speaker 2: even They just looked at me and went like, Okay,

829
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:05,480
Speaker 2: we'll get you next time. What I did not know,

830
00:46:05,640 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 2: because you know it from your profession, tunnel vision auditory

831
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:12,680
Speaker 2: exclusion is a big deal when you're understressed. My buddy

832
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:15,760
Speaker 2: had also seen them and he had drawn his weapon.

833
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: He was a Vietnam R by the way, he was

834
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,399
Speaker 2: a tour of William Bet. These guys just walked out.

835
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,200
Speaker 2: And I've used that in training with the police and

836
00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,200
Speaker 2: in training with by guys that I don't care if

837
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:31,399
Speaker 2: you're anti Oakley or whitet Arp if they are draw.

838
00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:34,000
Speaker 2: If you're responding to a gun that's drawn on you,

839
00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 2: chances are you're going to get hurt. And uh, these

840
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 2: guys saw two guns before their hands could push that

841
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 2: forty five out. And I guarantee you if they were

842
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 2: to pulled those forty five, they would have been shot

843
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 2: before they got the guns in their hands. So fasttraw

844
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:50,719
Speaker 2: is always sucond to.

845
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: Work and the way that you described that, and I

846
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 1: can see if you're walking through with the blinkers on

847
00:46:58,719 --> 00:47:01,279
Speaker 1: and you're not looking at those type of things, you

848
00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 1: can become become a victim to it. I think I'm

849
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:07,920
Speaker 1: not sure if it's years of being a law enforcement officer,

850
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: but I can walk into an environment and I can

851
00:47:11,200 --> 00:47:14,560
Speaker 1: sense if there's there's a problem there and it comes instinctial.

852
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 1: I think you've you've probably worked in that looking for

853
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 1: those type of situations and sometimes you're just out and

854
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,520
Speaker 1: you're looking. You think there's going to be trouble here

855
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: in a moment, or you can see something that's going

856
00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 1: not quite right. But living that life that you do,

857
00:47:30,280 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: and we've got so much to talk about, we'll have

858
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 1: a break in a sect, but I just want to

859
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 1: ask you, do you does your paranoia kicking like you've

860
00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,359
Speaker 1: got your head on swivel the whole time, or did

861
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,120
Speaker 1: you have the ability to switch off and relax in

862
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:46,040
Speaker 1: the right situation.

863
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think that it's a need in

864
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:53,880
Speaker 2: us that we remain in yellow. A perfect example is

865
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:55,399
Speaker 2: what I would go out to dinner and my kids

866
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,400
Speaker 2: were small. Both my kids are formal military now, but

867
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 2: you know they're there when there was ball. They knew

868
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: exactly where Dad was going to sit in the restaurant,

869
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:07,239
Speaker 2: and the older one would tell the little one, no,

870
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 2: that's where Dad's gonna sit because I was going to

871
00:48:09,880 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 2: have my back to the door, you know, I mean

872
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,359
Speaker 2: my back to the wall. I would know what chicks,

873
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,600
Speaker 2: where was the bathroom, all this kind of stuff, and

874
00:48:16,640 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 2: I am watching what's going on. But I paranoia. I'm

875
00:48:21,480 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 2: sure there's some people fall into paranoia, and I've had

876
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: people that reported things that never really happened and there

877
00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:32,160
Speaker 2: was all their imagination, especially with agents. But I think

878
00:48:32,200 --> 00:48:35,000
Speaker 2: it's just going back to those colors. It's just a

879
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:38,319
Speaker 2: way of life. I drive every day and when I

880
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,680
Speaker 2: get to this day and I'm a civilian now high profile,

881
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:45,960
Speaker 2: but I'm still civilian. I get the traffic light and firstly,

882
00:48:46,000 --> 00:48:47,960
Speaker 2: I don't pick up my phone start texting when I'm

883
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: on that light. First thing I do is I look

884
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,480
Speaker 2: in my mirrors. And this is natural. I say, I've

885
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 2: almost subconscious and I look at it, well, there's a

886
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 2: path there if I have to get off the X.

887
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: And that's not paranoia, that's just the survival instinct that

888
00:49:03,560 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 2: we have lost by civilization.

889
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:10,279
Speaker 1: It's fascinating. Well, Rick, let's let's take a break and

890
00:49:10,320 --> 00:49:13,000
Speaker 1: when we come back to the part two. We've we've

891
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 1: just touched, we've just scratched the surface of some of

892
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,279
Speaker 1: the stuff you've done. When we come back, we're going

893
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:21,600
Speaker 1: to delve deeper into the life of the CIA operative

894
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: and I'm really enjoying the conversation.

895
00:49:24,360 --> 00:49:24,759
Speaker 2: I am too.

896
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:26,320
Speaker 1: We'll back shortly. Cheers.