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Speaker 1: Well, let's talk about poker machines. As Connie Bernara Supper

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Speaker 1: House SA Best MP would call them the crystal meth

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Speaker 1: of gambling. Introducing legislation to try and put a dent

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Speaker 1: in the splurge I suppose that people have made over

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Speaker 1: the last thirty years. This figure is astounding. South Australians

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Speaker 1: have lost almost twenty billion billion dollars on pokey since

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Speaker 1: they were legalized, and currently the losses are just under

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Speaker 1: just under one billion dollars per year, nine to fifty

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Speaker 1: six million, nine hundred and fifty six million dollars in

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Speaker 1: the twenty three to twenty four financial year, up around

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Speaker 1: forty million on the year before. Now, I don't know

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Speaker 1: about you, but I'd be content with just one of

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Speaker 1: those million, Frankly, that'll see the super off quite nicely.

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Speaker 1: Just one of those million dollars we've lost nine to

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Speaker 1: fifty six million in the last financial year. Twenty billion

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Speaker 1: in thirty years. That is just staggering. Connie Banaros from

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Speaker 1: State Parliament Upper House Sessa Best MP, good morning.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Matthew, and good morning to your listeners. If

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Speaker 2: you think that figure is staggering, which it is, Matthew

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Speaker 2: on a yearly basis, gambling in Australia costs US twenty

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Speaker 2: five billion dollars.

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Speaker 1: We're not just talking pokeys, there are we though.

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Speaker 2: No, no, we're not. But twenty five billion dollars across

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Speaker 2: the nation's highest rate in the world. On a per

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Speaker 2: capita basis, one thousand dollars for every person including kids,

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Speaker 2: lost on gambling in this country. It's unreal, it's extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: What are you doing here in Parliament?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, so quickly on gambling machines, because I'd

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Speaker 2: like to cover gambling ads as well, but gambling machine,

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Speaker 2: like you said, crystal meth of gambling in this state.

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Speaker 2: I'm introducing a bill that will curb the spend on

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Speaker 2: poker machines by following the lead of New South Wales.

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Speaker 2: And New South Wales has a huge problem with poker machines,

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Speaker 2: right they have eighty nine thousand poker machines versus our

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Speaker 2: twelve odd thousands, and Tasmania we already have a pre

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Speaker 2: commitment scheme in this state. It's voluntary. Those two jurisdictions

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Speaker 2: have said the problem is so bad that they're going

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Speaker 2: to mandate that scheme. And what that looks like is

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Speaker 2: every gambler who who wants to play on a poker

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Speaker 2: machine has to sign up to a pre commitment scheme.

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Speaker 2: They have to do their one hundred point check of ID,

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Speaker 2: they have to be issued with a card and there

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Speaker 2: is there is no more cash when it comes to

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Speaker 2: poker machines, so it's effectively cashless gaming. But it means

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Speaker 2: that there are limits to what you can spend. In Tasmania,

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Speaker 2: there will be an annual limit of five thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: that a person can spend. In New South Wales, it's

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Speaker 2: based on a weekly, monthly, fortnightly or yearly spend that

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Speaker 2: the gambler says, this is how much I want to

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Speaker 2: be able to spend in a week. Now, if I

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Speaker 2: go on there on day one of the week and

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Speaker 2: I blow my cap, I can't spend a single dollar

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Speaker 2: more across the state. That is what New South Wales

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Speaker 2: took to their election, and it is happening. That is

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Speaker 2: what Tasmania took to their election, and it is happening.

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Speaker 2: And when we're losing, Josh, I have a billion dollars

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Speaker 2: here in South Australia and it will be over a

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Speaker 2: billion by the time we get to the next budget.

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Speaker 2: Then we need to be looking at following suit with

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Speaker 2: ose States poker machine.

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Speaker 1: How would it work here? Which model do you prefer

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Speaker 1: a limit for the year or down to the week.

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Speaker 2: Both models are premise on the fact that you can choose,

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Speaker 2: so we're not taking away everybody's right at the moment

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Speaker 2: under the voluntary scheme, which we already have in place.

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Speaker 2: And the problem with the scheme here in Southustralia is

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Speaker 2: voluntary at the moment, I can go on and say, look,

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Speaker 2: I want to set a monthly limit and I only

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Speaker 2: want to be able to pay play, you know, one

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars a month. If I lose that on day one,

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Speaker 2: then I know for the rest of the month, I

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Speaker 2: can't gamble. So we give the We give the the

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Speaker 2: person some autonomy over the amount and the time within

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Speaker 2: which they can spend it, but inevitably they have to

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Speaker 2: have a cap.

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Speaker 1: Would it be means tested in some way, because there's

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Speaker 1: no no, not means really. So somebody could put down

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Speaker 1: I can lose five grand in a month, but they

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Speaker 1: only earn.

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Speaker 2: Four and that's something we've talked about, and that gets

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Speaker 2: into really complicated territory and it's also raised some constitutional

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Speaker 2: issues as well. Means it will be linked though it

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Speaker 2: has to be linked in those other jurisdictions to a

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Speaker 2: single bank account. So that's a really important that's a

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Speaker 2: really important me because somebody can actually then when they're

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Speaker 2: receiving those statements, they can see what they've been spending

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Speaker 2: on gambling. Now the question is, and you know, we

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Speaker 2: have to test the appetite of Parliament the government on

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Speaker 2: this front. But the real question is should we have

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Speaker 2: an upper limit? And in Tasmania, I tell you they've

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Speaker 2: gone all the way. Their default limit is you cannot

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Speaker 2: lose more than one hundred dollars a day when this

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Speaker 2: comes in, or five thousand dollars a year. Well, that's smart,

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Speaker 2: it is very smart, and inevitably we have to remember

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Speaker 2: that the long term benefits to community and government are

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Speaker 2: going to be far greater than the short term sugar

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Speaker 2: hit that they get in revingg into poker machine.

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Speaker 1: All right, so this is what your legislation in there for.

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Speaker 2: That's one, yeah. The other one, the second one is

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Speaker 2: gambling ads. Now we know that at the moment, gambling

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Speaker 2: ads is a huge debate that's happening in across the nation.

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Speaker 2: We've all waited patiently to see what would happen at

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Speaker 2: a federal level, and it's nothing short of a cop out.

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Speaker 2: It's a repeat of what happened in twenty seventeen when

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Speaker 2: the FED backed away from meaning full reforms after a

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Speaker 2: Senate inquiry. Nick Xenophon, my former boss, put up a

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Speaker 2: bill that would call for a national regulator, but importantly

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Speaker 2: a complete band on gambling ads. So it's not a

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Speaker 2: new issue. But here we are in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 2: The FEDS have had the opportunity to look at the

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Speaker 2: issue again and they've said once again, we can't implement

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Speaker 2: a full ban on gambling ads because it will cripple

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Speaker 2: media outlets. They simply they need the revenue source from

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Speaker 2: gambling at their reliant on it. That is the biggest

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Speaker 2: cop out, Matthew, that it was a cop out in

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Speaker 2: twenty seven is cop out today. But what I will say,

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Speaker 2: given that the FEDS are and there's mounting pressure on

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Speaker 2: the FED at the moment over this, and that you

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Speaker 2: know the MPs are signing up in their droves to

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Speaker 2: say this isn't good enough. But what we can do

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Speaker 2: here in South Australia in twenty twenty three, our former

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Speaker 2: Commissioner for Gambling looked at this and said, look, we've

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Speaker 2: got a real problem here in South Australia. Like every

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Speaker 2: other jurisdiction, I want to implement some blackout periods. We

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Speaker 2: already have higher blackout periods than anywhere else in the nation.

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Speaker 2: So in South Australia you can't play gambling outs on

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Speaker 2: TV between four and seven thirty eights. That's a South

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Speaker 2: Australian incentive only. He said, I want to do the

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Speaker 2: same in the morning sessions and the same in the

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Speaker 2: afternoon sessions on TV, so we'll have morning, lunch and

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Speaker 2: evening sessions of blackout. The gambling providers, the media organization

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Speaker 2: came back and said, you can't do that. It's going

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Speaker 2: to cost us too much in revenue. You're going to

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Speaker 2: put us at an unfair competitive advantage with our interstate counterpigns.

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Speaker 1: Well, these arguments used when smoking was banned smoking TV.

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Speaker 2: The best example you could pick, Matthew, what we know

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Speaker 2: from tobacco ad band is that unless you implement a

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Speaker 2: complete band, it will do nothing. It will not make

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Speaker 2: a dent in smoking, in smoking rates, especially amongst young people.

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Speaker 2: So the only reason that we've been able to curb

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Speaker 2: smoking rates to the extent that we have today. It's

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Speaker 2: because we banned the ads and we need to think

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Speaker 2: about gambling in the same context. The problem with that,

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Speaker 2: of course, is that this is the most powerful lobby

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Speaker 2: in the nation that we're up against. You know, Nick

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Speaker 2: Xenophon's quite rightly over the years has referred to it

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Speaker 2: as akin to the gun lobby in America. So we

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Speaker 2: need to be we need to you know, grow a

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Speaker 2: you know, and stand up to that lobby and basically

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Speaker 2: say the long term impact are much more important to

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Speaker 2: us than what we will be receiving in not just

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Speaker 2: government revenue but political donation.

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Speaker 1: All right, Connie, I need to leave it there. Thank

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Speaker 1: you for your time today. Connie banaras SA best Upper

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Speaker 1: House MP. Doctor Elizabeth Moore is president of the Royal

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Speaker 1: Australia New Zealand College of Psychiatrists and they're calling for

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Speaker 1: a ban on gambling ads as well. Elizabeth, good morning,

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Speaker 1: Thank you for your time. Do you expect this to

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Speaker 1: be achieved?

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Speaker 3: Good morning, Matthew. I do I think that we have

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Speaker 3: the research, we have the evidence there around gambling harm. Now,

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Speaker 3: gambling doesn't gambling harm doesn't just affect the individual, It

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Speaker 3: affects their families, it affects our communities, and we know,

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Speaker 3: as Connie was saying, that one of the best ways

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Speaker 3: of preventing gambling harm is actually decreasing access and decreasing

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Speaker 3: the ways that you are aware of gambling.

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Speaker 1: Obviously, as a psychiatrist and your college would look at

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Speaker 1: this from a clinical and medical perspective. What are you

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Speaker 1: concerns the gambling ads in that light?

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Speaker 3: So we've put out a joint position statement with the

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Speaker 3: College of Physicians because we are both concerned around this.

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Speaker 3: We need to take it from a population health perspective.

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Speaker 3: You know, if you had a look at some of

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Speaker 3: the research, forty four percent Australian adults said that they

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Speaker 3: had actually placed a bet. We know that there is

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Speaker 3: a degree of severe gambling harm in the community. What

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Speaker 3: we've wanted to do is make sure that with a

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Speaker 3: gambling ban, so a ban on actually advertising gambling, we

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Speaker 3: would decrease the incidence of gambling in the community and

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Speaker 3: the harm from it, especially for actually those areas that

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Speaker 3: we know from research have more vulnerability to gambling, and

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Speaker 3: that's in our Aborigin on toires Straight Island of populations

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Speaker 3: and those from culturally and linguistically diverse population.

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Speaker 1: So I mean a lot of this and even the

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Speaker 1: discussion with Connie earlier is protecting people from themselves.

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Speaker 3: Essentially, it's protecting not only people from themselves, but also

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Speaker 3: protecting their families. We know that gambling calm also impacts

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Speaker 3: on things like domestic violence, intimate partner of olens. We

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Speaker 3: know that there are financial risks to it and that

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Speaker 3: leads to poverty, incarceration. We also know that that impacts

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Speaker 3: your children. It's wider than just protecting people from themselves.

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Speaker 3: It's actually protecting all of our communities.

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Speaker 1: You are up against a pretty powerful lobby though, aren't you.

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Speaker 1: As Connie Banaras was suggesting, have you met with advertisers

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Speaker 1: with media organizations to talk to them about the implications

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Speaker 1: of a band?

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Speaker 3: Well, one of the good things you're doing is actually

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Speaker 3: raising the awareness. We will talk to anybody about this.

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Speaker 3: I think the online gambling is something that I've certainly

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Speaker 3: seen arise in It's almost doubled, I think since twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 3: What we see clinically is that it is associated with depression.

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Speaker 3: It's associated with guilt and shame in individuals. We see

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Speaker 3: also increased levels of anxiety. You see this from a

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Speaker 3: population health perspective, We've got to do the prevention. Then

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Speaker 3: we need to have the services for early intervention. We

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Speaker 3: know from all of our research that early intervention is

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Speaker 3: a much better thing for reducing harm. And then if

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Speaker 3: there are the needs for treatments, we do have effective

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Speaker 3: treatments out there if people will come to us.

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Speaker 1: Is that treatment funded by any of the profits that

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Speaker 1: gambling makes.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, certainly, and I could have it a

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Speaker 3: guess that certainly, from our perspective, there needs to be

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Speaker 3: an increase in treatment, both in the public and the

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Speaker 3: private area.

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Speaker 1: Because I've got somebody suggesting on the text line this

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Speaker 1: is ridiculous. I gamble and very careful with what's spent

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Speaker 1: as well. Others I know that gamble are very careful too.

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Speaker 1: You should be looking at the person themselves. Don't punish

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Speaker 1: the one that's careful. I've had enough of this bs

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Speaker 1: ideas from do gooders. What next you're going to pick on?

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Speaker 1: Freedom is going down the drain. But I suppose look

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Speaker 1: the flow on effect, as you've suggested, Elizabeth, is people

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Speaker 1: that then reach out for help, broken families, all the

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Speaker 1: rest that have implications for the health system, for people

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Speaker 1: needing to pick up the pieces of their lives and

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Speaker 1: move on, and that just flows through in any number

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Speaker 1: of ways.

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Speaker 3: Yes, and we are talking about gambling harm. So it's

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Speaker 3: a little bit like when we have the discussion around alcohol.

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Speaker 3: You know, alcohol is used quite freely. There is suggest

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Speaker 3: that no level of alcohol use is actually good for you,

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Speaker 3: but I'll leave that for another discussion. But it's the

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Speaker 3: harms from excessive use. It is the harms that you

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Speaker 3: can get that people need to be aware of and

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Speaker 3: sometimes it's a little bit of a slippery slope.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, indeed, appreciate your time today. Thank you. Thanks doctor

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Moore, President of the Royal Australian New Zealand College

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Speaker 1: of Psychiatrists,