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Speaker 1: I got to act and welcome to another installment of

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Speaker 1: the year project. It's Harbs. Yeah, who else would it be? Hey,

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Speaker 1: you know what, today, I'm super excited and I don't

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Speaker 1: always say that, but I'm quite excited because I've known

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Speaker 1: this man for quite a long time and he's apart

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Speaker 1: from being an ordained minister, he's a very very very

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Speaker 1: gifted artist. He's a very gifted creative and we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about I don't know where we're going to go,

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Speaker 1: but I was thinking the other day about this. I

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Speaker 1: was thinking, I don't know why, but my algorithm gets

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff, everything from motorbikes to bloody politics,

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Speaker 1: to religion and god stuff and pro and anti and

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Speaker 1: I thought, why don't I We've never really done I've

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Speaker 1: got I think because of my background, I'll get to

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Speaker 1: you in a moment. Rev. Sorry, I'm just my long

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Speaker 1: winded But because of my very churchy some might say

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Speaker 1: religious Jesus, I'm quite reticent and hesitant to open the

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Speaker 1: door because I can hear the eye rolling happening from

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Speaker 1: where I sit, and I still, you know, there's I

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Speaker 1: think I'm a person who has faith and has doubts

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Speaker 1: and who has confusion and who has certainty and lack

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Speaker 1: of certainty and all of that, And I just thought,

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Speaker 1: I was thinking, is God relevant in twenty twenty five?

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Speaker 1: And what is God? And who is God? And so

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Speaker 1: who better to chat to than a man of God

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Speaker 1: who's going to clear everything up? So if you've got

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Speaker 1: any confusion, you'll have no confusion in about forty five minutes.

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Speaker 1: Good a, Paul, how are you? Wow? Oie?

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Speaker 2: That is a big introduction and a really high mark

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Speaker 2: for you to sit at the front. But Harp's very

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Speaker 2: good to be here. Thanks for your thought, thanks for

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Speaker 2: your thinking and then taking action on that. And I

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Speaker 2: would say that all those things that you've just mentioned

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Speaker 2: about yourself, in terms of a person of faith and

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Speaker 2: a person doubt and a person of confidence and a

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Speaker 2: person of lack of assurance and reassurance and a person

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Speaker 2: on a journey, all of those things that you described

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Speaker 2: about yourself, I would put my hand up and say

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Speaker 2: that that describes me too at various times. So I

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Speaker 2: think we're one and the same.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an interesting thing. Like I grew up and

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Speaker 1: I don't want to bore everyone, but I grew up

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Speaker 1: in a Catholic I mean, my mum. I don't know

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Speaker 1: her or the Pope, but I tell you what, pretty

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Speaker 1: side by side in terms of who's the most Catholic Mary,

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Speaker 1: she's pretty good at it. And she's still gonna Mass

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Speaker 1: every week at eighty five. She's still and this is

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Speaker 1: I'm not even being funny. People she still likes. Well,

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Speaker 1: they don't even light candles now. They have these things apparently.

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Speaker 1: Mom tells me they're like electric where you pay whatever

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Speaker 1: and you and it's the same. I don't know the

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Speaker 1: old days. She used to light candles for me like

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Speaker 1: a world champion candlelighter. She prays for me all the time,

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Speaker 1: and you know, to a range of saints, sometimes God,

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Speaker 1: sometimes Mother Mary, sometimes a range of saints who all

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Speaker 1: apparently have different I don't know, vocations or different reasons

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Speaker 1: to be prayed to. But yeah, and then I was

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Speaker 1: I went into I came out of there, and I

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Speaker 1: was in the I guess, the spiritual, theological, philosophical wilderness

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Speaker 1: for a while. And then I met some people who

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Speaker 1: hassled me to go to this church. And I say hassled,

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Speaker 1: but in a loving way hassled. I was running a gym.

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Speaker 1: I was nineteen twenty these young guys who owned motorbikes.

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Speaker 1: I had motorbikes and they were like Bogans that believed

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Speaker 1: in God. I'm like, this is a curious mixture.

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Speaker 3: And I ended up going there and that one off

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Speaker 3: visit I intended to go once. That ended up being

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Speaker 3: a four or five year rabbit hole of theological adventure

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Speaker 3: for me. And you know, so I've been in and

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Speaker 3: out of church my whole life. At the moment, I'm

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Speaker 3: out of church and I'm you know, there's no recommendations today.

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Speaker 3: By the way, this is where not Paul and I

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Speaker 3: are not trying to steer anyone into anything. We're just

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Speaker 3: having a chat. But so you're a.

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Speaker 1: Rev, you're a school Do we call you a school chaplain?

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Speaker 2: What do we call Yeah? So my role currently as

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Speaker 2: I am a school chaplain and I work in an

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Speaker 2: independent school in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne. And I've

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Speaker 2: been in this role as part of this community for

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Speaker 2: about fifteen sixteen years, and so in that time, I've

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Speaker 2: built connection, I've built rapport, I've built trust. Prior to

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Speaker 2: my starting here in this school, I had been a

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Speaker 2: chaplain in previous A couple of other educational situations. And

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Speaker 2: so probably my career, if you like, in chaplaincy has

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Speaker 2: been just over twenty years as a chaplain and prior

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Speaker 2: to that or as part of that, in education. So

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Speaker 2: I've been in education as a teacher, qualified teacher for

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Speaker 2: thirty years. I'm ordained as a Baptis minister, and that's

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Speaker 2: been sort OF's been just over ten years, and I'm

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Speaker 2: still learning, still growing, still discovering along the way, and

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Speaker 2: there's still plenty more to discover.

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Speaker 1: Are you still Are you still learning and unlearning?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting. One of the things that I'm doing

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Speaker 2: at the moment at school is we have a subject,

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Speaker 2: if you like, a subject called World Religions. And one

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Speaker 2: of my greatest thrills is when there are students in

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Speaker 2: class who are from a variety of backgrounds and we

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Speaker 2: celebrate that. We talk about story. We acknowledge that it's

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Speaker 2: not well. I believe it's not necessarily right and wrong.

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Speaker 2: There'll be people who will disagree with me, but I

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Speaker 2: pitch to them it's not right and wrong. It's just

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Speaker 2: our stories are different, our experience, our background, our family makeup.

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Speaker 2: You know. For example, we talk about rituals every time

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Speaker 2: you walk in your own house, you practice certain rituals.

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Speaker 2: And I did a survey just in class yesterday. I said,

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Speaker 2: for example, when you get home, some of you get

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Speaker 2: to the front door, some of you enter your home

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Speaker 2: by the back door. Some of you take your shoes

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Speaker 2: off straight away. Others don't take their shoes off. It's

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Speaker 2: okay to have shoes inside. It's not right or wrong,

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Speaker 2: it's just becomes your norm. What your norm is, your rhythm,

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Speaker 2: your routine, your story, And that's the lens that you

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Speaker 2: view normal from. And in class we explore the notion

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Speaker 2: that just because my normal or my experience is different

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Speaker 2: to yours, doesn't mean mine's right and yours is wrong. Actually,

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Speaker 2: let's find out a little bit about each other's story

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Speaker 2: and see where the connections are. Where you know where

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Speaker 2: the similarities are. But equally, let's celebrate and recognize the

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Speaker 2: differences as well.

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Speaker 1: Wow, you're a bit of a unicorn in the Christian space,

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Speaker 1: because I mean, the thing is that most most religions

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Speaker 1: essentially believe that they've got it right, don't they. It's

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Speaker 1: not like most most religions are not gone. Look this

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Speaker 1: is what we think, but we could be wrong. Like

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Speaker 1: nobody's saying that, but for you to be able to

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Speaker 1: say and that, I think that's why I've always been

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Speaker 1: drawn to you. Like you and I haven't spent a

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Speaker 1: lot of time together, but we've spent time together through

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Speaker 1: the various things that I do, where you're often at events,

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Speaker 1: and you've helped us out with your your sketch what

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Speaker 1: do we call it, sketch art, Yes, sketch note, sketch noting,

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Speaker 1: which we'll talk about later. But yeah, I think because

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Speaker 1: it sounds funny, but because you're not trying to shove anything,

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Speaker 1: like you clearly walk your talk. Can you live your

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Speaker 1: values and your religion, but you're not trying to shove

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Speaker 1: it down anyone's throat. But how does that go down?

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Speaker 1: When like you are in another environment with somebody who's

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Speaker 1: theologically rigid, they're like, no, if they don't do this,

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Speaker 1: and here are the scriptures, Paul, you know, lest the

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Speaker 1: man be born again, he cannot enter the king for

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Speaker 1: God so loved them that every of the shouldn't. And

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Speaker 1: if you're you know, it's like, no, this is it?

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Speaker 1: How do you go with that? When people are like

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Speaker 1: arbitraryan say no, these are the criteria. They do not

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Speaker 1: meet the criteria. We meet the criteria. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: this happens in a myriad of religions and theological kind

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Speaker 1: of paradigms, not just Christianity. How do you deal with that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a good question, and you're quite right. I

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Speaker 2: do absolutely have interactions with people who are so fixated

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Speaker 2: and so set on their belief and I'm also fixated

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Speaker 2: on my belief. I'm very confident in what I believe,

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Speaker 2: but the way that that lives out, or the way

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Speaker 2: I live out my belief is different. And I suppose

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Speaker 2: what I endeavor to share with them is that the

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Speaker 2: idea of my work is mostly with young people. My

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Speaker 2: work is in those formative years. I work in a

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Speaker 2: school that we've got students in ELC we call it

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Speaker 2: so three and four year olds right through to eighteen

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Speaker 2: nineteen year olds at year twelve, and at any point

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Speaker 2: along the way, there's the potential for them to be

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Speaker 2: curious and to be exploring and wondering. If from a

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Speaker 2: lectern or from a pulpit, or from a position of authority,

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Speaker 2: if I'm dictating and forcing and really very very black

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Speaker 2: and white, then I believe that I am going to

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Speaker 2: make those kids run further and further and further away

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Speaker 2: from the exploration. Because here am I, and I think

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Speaker 2: I'm fairly in touch. I think my own children remind

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Speaker 2: me that I'm not. But I'm fairly in touch with

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Speaker 2: where young people are at. If I as an adult,

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Speaker 2: just because I'm an adult, if I try and tell

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Speaker 2: than what they should believe, then they're going to work

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Speaker 2: very very hard to realize or look for, search for

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Speaker 2: every piece of evidence that they can to say, well, clearly,

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Speaker 2: you don't know what you're talking about, old man. I

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Speaker 2: want to be on the journey. And so for those

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Speaker 2: theological even pastors and colleagues you know, who are working

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Speaker 2: in a different context, and there are many who surround

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Speaker 2: themselves with people of the faith, people who support their

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Speaker 2: view people who listen to and you know, they can

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Speaker 2: quote Verse in scripture and all those things that you

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Speaker 2: just mentioned before. They just continue to support that same

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Speaker 2: thinking and mindset and block Whereas and you know, I'm

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Speaker 2: troublably needing to be careful about not dissing what they're thinking.

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Speaker 2: But I suspect that contact with the real world, if

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Speaker 2: you like, in the school system, the learning system, the

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Speaker 2: education system, that we're on a journey of exploration and discovery.

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Speaker 2: Is different to sitting in a church on a Sunday

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Speaker 2: morning and singing some hymns and preaching from the book.

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Speaker 2: And I do that too, and that's good in that context,

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Speaker 2: but for me, it's more of a journey of self

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Speaker 2: discovery and exploration, not This is the way you must

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Speaker 2: get on board. Otherwise you know you're going to somewhere

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Speaker 2: you don't want to end up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's how you think.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know whether or not pick twenty religions, right,

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Speaker 1: pick you know, it could be a political group, it

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Speaker 1: could be a sporting group. It could be you know,

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Speaker 1: in my world, a food group, carnivores or people who fast,

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Speaker 1: or vegetarians or like we all most of us inhabit

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Speaker 1: a group. And so in a way most not all,

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Speaker 1: but I think most of us are in the middle

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Speaker 1: of an ideological echo chamber. Right and well, this is

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Speaker 1: the best way to eat, This is the best way

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Speaker 1: to connect with God. This is the best way to

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Speaker 1: get in shape. This is the best way to get

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Speaker 1: the country running well is to vote for this party.

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Speaker 1: This is the best way to make money. This is

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Speaker 1: the best way to know whatever. But the problem is,

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Speaker 1: one of the problems is when you unequivocally absolutely think

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Speaker 1: you're right when you don't have data or evidence. You

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Speaker 1: have faith, which is not evidence. Faith is not knowledge.

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Speaker 1: They are different things. Doesn't mean you, you know, like

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Speaker 1: I believe in things that I can't prove. So I

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Speaker 1: have to say, look, I simultaneously believe this or think this,

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Speaker 1: but I could be wrong. Now, most people I'm not

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Speaker 1: saying I'm great for doing this, but most people don't

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Speaker 1: want to do that. Most people don't want to say, look,

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Speaker 1: this is really what I believe, but I could be

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Speaker 1: wrong because their identity he is intertwined with their belief

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Speaker 1: and the thought of me being wrong. And by the way,

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Speaker 1: my religion believes X. And there's four thousand religions, twelve

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Speaker 1: major religions, give or take. You know, we believe this,

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Speaker 1: and which means we believe that nearly everyone else is wrong.

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Speaker 1: And for me, that's like a really it's an impractical, unrealistic,

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Speaker 1: arrogant And I was that. I was exactly that. I

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Speaker 1: absolutely thought that what I believed was unequivocally the truth.

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Speaker 1: I never thought for a moment, oh, this is just

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Speaker 1: my truth this is just what I believe. And by

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Speaker 1: the way, I believe this because this is how been

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Speaker 1: taught and told and trained and programmed. If I was

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Speaker 1: Craig who grew up in India and Mum and Dad

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Speaker 1: were another religion, and or I grew up in another environment,

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Speaker 1: be that cultural, sociological, geographical. If I grew up in

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Speaker 1: a different mindset and a different culture and a different

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Speaker 1: family with different beliefs and values, like you were talking

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Speaker 1: about coming home shoes on, shoes off, front door, back door,

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Speaker 1: I might never have even gone to a church in

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Speaker 1: my life, but nonetheless I'd be the same guy, but

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Speaker 1: a different version of me.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Absolutely, Your experiences and often our family influence our

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Speaker 2: thoughts because they influence our experiences and the modeling that

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Speaker 2: we get from our parents largely, you know. And another

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Speaker 2: example is if you grow up and let's say you

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Speaker 2: go out to visit the neighbors or there's a family

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Speaker 2: friend and as a family you go over. If whenever

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Speaker 2: you go and visit somebody, your family would take, for example,

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Speaker 2: a bottle of wine and a bunch of flowers or

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Speaker 2: something to contribute to the meal that you might be sharing.

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Speaker 2: If that's the norm, then you as a young person,

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Speaker 2: you grow up, you know, as a kid, and then

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Speaker 2: a young person, you watch that when you go out

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Speaker 2: when you're older, you will have a natural inclination. It

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Speaker 2: will almost feel like you're not prepared unless you show

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Speaker 2: up with a bottle of wine and a bunch of

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Speaker 2: flowers or something to contribute to the meal or because

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Speaker 2: it's what becomes your norm, it's what you're used to,

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Speaker 2: and then that just becomes you know, you adopt that.

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Speaker 2: We adopt those things largely through our experience as a

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Speaker 2: young person growing up. And so what happens in the

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Speaker 2: home and the influence of parents is enormous. And then

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Speaker 2: the adults that our young people witness and watch and observe. Yes,

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Speaker 2: it's one thing to be teaching them. And you know,

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Speaker 2: teaching has changed and evolved, and as it should. The

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Speaker 2: I guess, the style of interaction and our awareness of

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Speaker 2: different learning styles and all of that is continually continuously growing.

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Speaker 2: And we as educators are learning. But the influence of

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Speaker 2: us and us living through that which we teach and

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Speaker 2: that which we In my case, if you like that

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Speaker 2: which I preach, I have to live it. If I'm

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Speaker 2: not living it, the kids see through that so quick,

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Speaker 2: it's not authentic. I get up on stage or I'm

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Speaker 2: in the you know, in our chapel, and if I'm

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Speaker 2: not living it, they know it. They see it, and

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Speaker 2: the stories, the suggestion, the influence, the perspective that I'm

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Speaker 2: trying to share is just worth nothing. And so I've

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Speaker 2: got to live it each and every day. And that

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Speaker 2: helps me, I guess, in terms of how do I

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Speaker 2: keep showing up in it as strong one who strives

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Speaker 2: to be their best and always doing my best. It's

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Speaker 2: because I'm very aware that people are watching. There's an

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Speaker 2: added It's not a pressure because I don't feel and

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Speaker 2: it's a bit like your story, and you don't have

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Speaker 2: to make a decision about whether you're going to drink

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Speaker 2: alcohol or smoke or because you've just never never done that.

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Speaker 2: It's just it's a it's a non negotiable for me.

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Speaker 2: Not swearing, for example, is really really important to me

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Speaker 2: because it's a way that I don't want to get

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Speaker 2: in the way. I don't want to have staff, my

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Speaker 2: colleagues or students if they hear me swearing, then that

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Speaker 2: puts a seed of doubt in my teaching and my

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Speaker 2: preaching and my example that I'm trying to set, and

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Speaker 2: if I give them cause for doubt, then my message,

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Speaker 2: what I stand for, what I'm trying to share, diminishes very,

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Speaker 2: very very quickly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, I love that. I love that, and it's

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Speaker 1: so true. It's like in a different way, but when

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Speaker 1: I'm if I'm at a restaurant and I'm eating dinner

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Speaker 1: and someone comes in that knows me or knows of me,

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Speaker 1: Not that I'm anybody particularly famous, but I often get

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Speaker 1: many times I've had over the years, people go, oh,

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Speaker 1: what's Craig Harper got on his plate? And they just

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Speaker 1: want to see what I'm eeting to see if I'm

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Speaker 1: full of crap or not? Right, Oh, you know, and

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Speaker 1: if per chance it's not something that meets their expectation,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. It is funny because yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I mean I always say, if you want to know someone,

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Speaker 1: pay a little bit of attention to what they say

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Speaker 1: and a lot of attention to what they do, because

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Speaker 1: what we do will tell people who we are. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can say all the things you want to say,

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Speaker 1: but ultimately who you are has reflected in your behavior,

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Speaker 1: your choices, your lifestyle, how you treat people over time, because.

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Speaker 2: It's easy to say stuff absolutely, and I certainly don't

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Speaker 2: want to come across to you or to anybody who's listening.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to come across to say I always

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Speaker 2: get it right, you know. And you know you've got

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Speaker 2: your version of this is what it means to tell

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Speaker 2: people and share with people, and you know, from even

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Speaker 2: if you go from a fitness perspective, an exercise specifictive,

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Speaker 2: a diet perspective, and you know, most of us who

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Speaker 2: are listening have heard you tell the story of you

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Speaker 2: were living out a certain behavior even though you were

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Speaker 2: teaching something different. Me too, I am human, and I

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Speaker 2: make mistakes, and I you know, while I strive to

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Speaker 2: support what I say through my actions, I don't always

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Speaker 2: get it right, you know. And that's the fall of

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Speaker 2: human kind, isn't it. You know that where none of

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Speaker 2: us are perfect and I'm certainly, and lots of the

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Speaker 2: best stories are helping the students to recognize that, you

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Speaker 2: know that we get it wrong too, And the best

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Speaker 2: thing that we can do as adults, let alone what

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Speaker 2: faith perspective we're coming from, or whether we're a teacher

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Speaker 2: or not, but if we can share with young people,

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Speaker 2: whether they are five and six and seven year olds

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Speaker 2: or whether they are thirteen, fourteen, fifteen year olds. If

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Speaker 2: we can be honest and say, actually, for example, I

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Speaker 2: don't know the answer to that. That's a really good question.

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Speaker 2: Let's find out together. Or I've made a mistake. I

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Speaker 2: got that wrong. And you might be talking about something

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Speaker 2: that happened when I was a teenager, or you might

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Speaker 2: be talking about something that happened last week, or even

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Speaker 2: within a class in a classroom, there are times when

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Speaker 2: I get it wrong at the beginning of the class.

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Speaker 2: And if I can publicly acknowledge, or sometimes privately acknowledged

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Speaker 2: to that student and say, mate, I'm sorry, I thought

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Speaker 2: this and this or I assumed that and that, if

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Speaker 2: I can go and reconnect and re engage with that

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Speaker 2: young person, then that saves a lot of trauma potential

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Speaker 2: trauma for that young person because we as teachers, even

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Speaker 2: though society doesn't This is a generalization, but society doesn't

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Speaker 2: value the art and craft of teaching as much as

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Speaker 2: I believe. I'm biased, but I believe it should in

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Speaker 2: terms of our role as educators to create and shape

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Speaker 2: the future. Society doesn't regard that highly enough. But young people,

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Speaker 2: our connection with young people, we have to be authentic. Yes,

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Speaker 2: we've got some knowledge that we need to impart and

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Speaker 2: share and expose them to. But if we're not showing

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Speaker 2: up or entic and real and human and full of

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Speaker 2: all MSS mistakes and full of all of the problems

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Speaker 2: and issues and challenges and the humanness of us, if

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Speaker 2: we're not willing to share that, then I just think

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Speaker 2: we're in the wrong game.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the things that has been something I've

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Speaker 1: thought about a lot over the years was when I

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Speaker 1: was younger and in church, so Mass very traditional. By

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Speaker 1: the way, I'm not hating on anything everyone, I'm just

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Speaker 1: sharing my experience. But my experience of Mass Catholic church,

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Speaker 1: it was somewhere between boring, terrifying, uninspiring. This is just

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Speaker 1: my version and pretty much me and all of my friends,

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Speaker 1: we didn't want to be there. We just had to

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Speaker 1: be there, and we tolerated it. We didn't celebrate it.

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Speaker 1: Right now, maybe we were the problem. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: but that's just my experience. And then when I went

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Speaker 1: on and I went and did other more tambourine banging,

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Speaker 1: you know, happy clapping style of church, like a lot

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Speaker 1: of I would say, most of what came out of

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Speaker 1: my time, you know, doing a deep dive into God,

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Speaker 1: let's just say that most of it was good. But

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Speaker 1: what I did notice was, and I noticed broadly, is

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Speaker 1: that in the place where you would think there's the

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Speaker 1: most unity, there's often the most division and the most

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Speaker 1: disconnection and the most like not a whole lot of

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Speaker 1: you know, like the theory of the theology wasn't always

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Speaker 1: outwardly practiced, and like for me, for me, unless there's

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Speaker 1: not love at this epi center of whatever the practice,

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Speaker 1: the theology, the philosophy. And by love I really mean love,

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Speaker 1: I mean kindness, I mean I mean loving serving if

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Speaker 1: that's not at the center in a real way, not

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Speaker 1: just in a theoretical way. And I look at the

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Speaker 1: like most theological texts speak of the importance of love

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Speaker 1: and kindness, etc. Yet there's so much hate, so much

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Speaker 1: not love. How do you You don't have an answer

393
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Speaker 1: for that, But what do you think about that?

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Speaker 2: Paul, I'm disappointed to say that I've witnessed it. I

395
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Speaker 2: agree with you. I even was having a conversation with

396
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Speaker 2: my mum last night, and she was unpacking a version

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Speaker 2: of an event that she saw with be in a

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Speaker 2: church community that she's part of, and the treatment of

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Speaker 2: people within that church where they received everything but love

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Speaker 2: that you would hope that, you know, And that's what

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00:23:56,640 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 2: we're kind of we were chatting about going We ought

402
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 2: to be able to expect better from an organization, whichever

403
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 2: faith group that you might be belonged to, or which

404
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 2: whichever place of worship you might be attending. And you'll

405
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Speaker 2: I agree with you that fundamentally, love and interaction and

406
00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 2: care and concern for people is at the core of

407
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 2: most religion. We should be able to walk into any

408
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Speaker 2: of those places and feel it and receive it and

409
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Speaker 2: and not not the opposite. And unfortunately, the very institution

410
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Speaker 2: that professes to love and to care and to cherish

411
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:39,159
Speaker 2: and all those things, unfortunately is way too often the

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Speaker 2: perpetrator of malpractice. And you know all of the negatives,

413
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Speaker 2: and you know, and there are things in place now

414
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Speaker 2: to try and prevent that. But and therefore, people's experience

415
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Speaker 2: of those places, and in my context I'm going to

416
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Speaker 2: talk about church. People's experience of the church and the

417
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 2: humor within the church has a direct impact on their

418
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Speaker 2: association to God and faith and and understandably. You know,

419
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Speaker 2: if I'm if I'm the chaplain and I've got a reputation,

420
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Speaker 2: you know, the kids here they call me Rev. They

421
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Speaker 2: understand that, you know, there's some connection between me and

422
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Speaker 2: God and faith and and kind of that that that

423
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Speaker 2: bigger than me concept. If I if I'm nasty, horrible

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Speaker 2: and terrible, then their understanding of God, who I'm a

425
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:40,359
Speaker 2: representative of deteriorates. It's me, it's horrible. So I have

426
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 2: a responsibility. If I genuinely believe in faith and hope

427
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Speaker 2: and love, and the greatest of these is love, then

428
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,239
Speaker 2: I've got to be living that out every day, like

429
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,120
Speaker 2: we were saying a little bit before. But unfortunately people

430
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 2: don't always get that as good as we would hope.

431
00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:59,400
Speaker 1: I think, I think one of the problems with any organization.

432
00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:01,480
Speaker 1: And remember, on a level a church, it's just a

433
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,480
Speaker 1: group of people in a building. I mean, it's more

434
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:06,959
Speaker 1: than that, but at times it's a bunch of humans

435
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: in a room, right. And it's the same in science

436
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: when people go to me, oh, but science tells us

437
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,280
Speaker 1: and I'm like, hang on, do you know who created

438
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:19,239
Speaker 1: that research, you know who ran that research, you know

439
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: who interpreted that research? You know who funded that research.

440
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 1: It's like science itself is not good or bad. It's

441
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,439
Speaker 1: just that humans are involved and so science can be brilliant.

442
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: And it's like some people could go to a church,

443
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: as I did. When I went to a different church,

444
00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:40,000
Speaker 1: I went, oh, my gosh, I've never had anything like

445
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 1: this in my life. Hey, everyone, notice how I'm not

446
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,720
Speaker 1: swearing today. Look at me. And I made a commitment

447
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:51,360
Speaker 1: to Paul. But yeah, I remember thinking, I mean, I've

448
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 1: never experienced like this, anything like this, and everyone was,

449
00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 1: you know, nice and kind and interested and like the

450
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: was different than music was amazing. But that was just

451
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 1: my individual experience. But I'm sure some people go for

452
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 1: the first time ever to a church and then they're scarred.

453
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 1: They'll never set foot in another church in their life.

454
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:15,520
Speaker 1: So it's not is church good or bad? Is God

455
00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 1: real or not real? Or is Buddhism this, or is

456
00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: you know, Islam that, or It's like a lot of

457
00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,959
Speaker 1: it is really about what was your experience when you

458
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 1: interacted with that person or that religion or in that

459
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 1: mosque or that synagogue or that church, Like what happened,

460
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: you know, And because people, you know, if someone has

461
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,639
Speaker 1: a bad experience in a certain environment, for better or worse,

462
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,640
Speaker 1: they're probably not going back.

463
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely. I think those personal experiences and then the

464
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 2: debriefing of that, if we're willing to debrief it, you know,

465
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,520
Speaker 2: with our family or friends or other people who might

466
00:27:55,560 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 2: have invited us to come along and experiencing it. I

467
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 2: think we make our next decision based on how it

468
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 2: felt when we went into that space, into that environment,

469
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,760
Speaker 2: you know, just to you know, you mentioned before, is

470
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:14,600
Speaker 2: you know, is the question if you like, is God relevant?

471
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:21,120
Speaker 2: One of my one of my wonderings is if if

472
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 2: we look at the challenge of living today and again

473
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,920
Speaker 2: the challenge you know, you and me, two white fellas

474
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:36,160
Speaker 2: in a very affluent country. You know, we really don't

475
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 2: have a lot to complain about. Orbit individuals are going

476
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: to have their circumstance and their story, and you know,

477
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: and rightly so, and we would listen to that and

478
00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,160
Speaker 2: absorb that and affirm that in some ways as well.

479
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 3: And but.

480
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:56,840
Speaker 2: Breakdown in society, the breakdown, you know, the divorce rates, violence,

481
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:04,640
Speaker 2: domestic violence, theft, youth gangs, all of that. You know,

482
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 2: there's something going wrong. There's a breakdown in our society.

483
00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 2: And I wonder whether when we're missing something, when we're

484
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 2: lacking something, we may not be aware what we're missing

485
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,960
Speaker 2: until we put it back in. Follow me a bit

486
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: further here. Back in about twenty eleven, the state government

487
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 2: here in Victoria and other governments followed, pushed religious education

488
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 2: out of state schools. You know, we used to. I

489
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,560
Speaker 2: grew up having a volunteer come in and you know,

490
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 2: a little dotty old lady, and she would come in

491
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 2: and she would share some Bible stories, and it was

492
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 2: a half hour once a week. That no longer happens

493
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: in schools, in state schools. And I wonder whether there's

494
00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:01,200
Speaker 2: a correlation between a lack of God, if you like,

495
00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 2: in our young people's experience and therefore the values, the principles,

496
00:30:08,160 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 2: And I might even go so faris to say the

497
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 2: Christian values are not being heard and understood through the stories.

498
00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,360
Speaker 2: I wonder if that has a flow on effect to

499
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 2: how you know that then young people there now, young adults,

500
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,880
Speaker 2: the becoming parents, the adults of today, the decision makers,

501
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 2: the leaders, the community influences of today, are missing that

502
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 2: part of the Christian values because people in droves are

503
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:43,440
Speaker 2: not going to places of worship. These days. Sunday used

504
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:48,000
Speaker 2: to be for most of our childhood until about you know,

505
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,640
Speaker 2: I looked it up before. It was around nine ninety

506
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 2: ninety one. Sunday trading became something that we were just exploring,

507
00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 2: just experiencing. Prior to that, everything shut on Sundays. There

508
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,719
Speaker 2: was one day, and depending on your tradition, you might

509
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:07,880
Speaker 2: call it a sabbath, a day of rest and an

510
00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 2: opportunity to connect with family. My experience, not everybody's, but

511
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:16,680
Speaker 2: my experience was church became a place, a meeting place

512
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 2: for community, and I got loved, I got cared for,

513
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:24,880
Speaker 2: I got taught, I got engaged. Sometimes it was boring, absolutely,

514
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:27,800
Speaker 2: but I met with a group of people and it

515
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: was the village. It was my parents' generation cared about me.

516
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:37,840
Speaker 2: My grandparents' generation who not my grandparents, but people of

517
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 2: that generation within the church community. They looked back for me,

518
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: they cared for me, they were interested in me, They

519
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,680
Speaker 2: taught me, they cared for me. And so my experience

520
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 2: of growing up in church has absolutely impacted my values.

521
00:31:52,680 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 2: Young people for a generation and more have not been

522
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: going to church because families, while they liked the idea,

523
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:04,200
Speaker 2: then not doing it. Schools while they might somewhere along

524
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 2: the lines, like the idea, the church is not allowed

525
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 2: in there anymore, and so they're not doing it, so

526
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:13,320
Speaker 2: kids aren'tetting it that way. I would suggest to you,

527
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: perhaps your honor, that there is an and comes down

528
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,840
Speaker 2: to privilege. I understand that. But the spike that we're

529
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 2: seeing in independent schools right now is enormous, and I

530
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: think that it's because families are concerned. They're concerned that

531
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:43,960
Speaker 2: they're young people, their children not getting the education, including

532
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:49,800
Speaker 2: the values in the local primary school that an independent

533
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,959
Speaker 2: school and very often aligned with a church a faith community,

534
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 2: whether by aim or by action, sometimes both hopefully both.

535
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,200
Speaker 2: Families like the idea, they're not getting it from their

536
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: religious organization, so they're going to their school, and their

537
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:10,000
Speaker 2: school is becoming the one stop shop. School is where

538
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,520
Speaker 2: we develop our values. School is developed where we develop

539
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: our mind. School is where we develop our sporting prowess

540
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,960
Speaker 2: and our physicality, and our interactions and social networks. So

541
00:33:20,200 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 2: much is dependent on schools nowadays because that has become

542
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,320
Speaker 2: the new hub of community. Where As it used to

543
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 2: be a church it I'm a sports club for a while,

544
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: and now with the rise of independent schools and the

545
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 2: growth of independent schools. Unfortunately, that leads to the next impact,

546
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: and this we don't yet fully understand, and that is

547
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: families are stretched to the limit in order to get

548
00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 2: their children to get to an independent school, paying through

549
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: the roof to get to an independent school, and the

550
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:57,040
Speaker 2: stress that that's putting on relationships and family and marriage

551
00:33:57,520 --> 00:34:01,920
Speaker 2: and time together as a family unit. It's work, work, work, work.

552
00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 2: We've got to earn the money because we want to

553
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 2: do the right thing by our kids. And it's just

554
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:10,240
Speaker 2: this cycle is we just don't yet know where it ends.

555
00:34:10,680 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 2: And I'm concerned for the impact of the lack of

556
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:21,720
Speaker 2: faith that our communities, our societies, our people. They're searching

557
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:23,759
Speaker 2: for it, they're seeking it, but they're not finding it

558
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 2: in their local church or synagogue or mosque or temple.

559
00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 1: Yeah. Wow, that was a lot. That was a lot.

560
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:34,720
Speaker 1: I feel like, how do I say this? I feel

561
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: like people that are, for example, like I don't want

562
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,560
Speaker 1: to talk too much about the other religions because I

563
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,680
Speaker 1: feel unqualified. So all of you people of other faiths,

564
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,839
Speaker 1: I'm not discounting you at all. I just don't want

565
00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,359
Speaker 1: to speak on your behalf right, because I grew up

566
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,800
Speaker 1: in the for better or worse. I grew up in

567
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: the Christian paradigm. Right, I feel like Christianity's got a

568
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: bit of a pr problem at the moment. Right. I

569
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 1: feel like people that are Chris are like, yeah, we're awesome,

570
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: come and be on our team. Jesus is Ace. But

571
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: from the outside looking in, people who are not not everyone,

572
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: but I think a lot of them are like I

573
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:15,960
Speaker 1: Nelly swore, well, thank goodness, Christians are fully you know what,

574
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: like hypocrites, Like they go to church and then they

575
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 1: do this and that, and I don't blame them because

576
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:26,879
Speaker 1: it happens, you know. And the amount of preachers and

577
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: priests and people who are coming out and who have

578
00:35:29,680 --> 00:35:31,839
Speaker 1: been busted for this and that, and they've done all

579
00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:37,239
Speaker 1: this a moral, ungodly horrible And I'm like, well, no,

580
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: I don't blame these people, you know. But the problem

581
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 1: is that we associate, like I said before, that we go, oh,

582
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: that person did that. Therefore all Christians are this, Well

583
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,600
Speaker 1: no it doesn't. That's actually you know, like I've got

584
00:35:54,680 --> 00:35:56,759
Speaker 1: quite a lot of friends who are you know, I've

585
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: got friends that are Muslims. I've got friends that are Buddhists,

586
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: I've got friends that are Christians. I've got friends that

587
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:03,960
Speaker 1: are atheists. I love them all pretty much the same,

588
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 1: And all I care about is are they good humans?

589
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 1: And are they kind and nice? And let's not debate

590
00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 1: about which is right or which is wrong, but on

591
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:16,279
Speaker 1: the most base level of human interaction. For me, I

592
00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 1: don't you know. For me, a Christian who isn't for

593
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:23,520
Speaker 1: the most part walking their talk is like somebody who

594
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:26,160
Speaker 1: wears a tracksuit that never trains and says I'm an

595
00:36:26,200 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: athlete because I wear a tracksuit. No, you're not. You're

596
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: just wearing a tracksuit. Like to be an athlete, you

597
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: need to do all of the work that is required

598
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: to be so.

599
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:37,000
Speaker 3: Too.

600
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,359
Speaker 1: If you're going to walk around and profess that you

601
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: are a certain kind of person, I don't believe you

602
00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:47,479
Speaker 1: until I see you. You know, I'm ironically I don't

603
00:36:47,560 --> 00:36:50,880
Speaker 1: trust people much like I doesn't mean I distrust them necessarily,

604
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: But if you're going to tell me what you are,

605
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,200
Speaker 1: I'm going to hold my judgment a little bit till

606
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,879
Speaker 1: I see you be that. You know, because I've been

607
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:02,239
Speaker 1: around so much BS for so long, and I've been

608
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,520
Speaker 1: in I've been in churches where I've met some of

609
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: the most amazing human beings ever. And I've also met

610
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 1: some of the biggest hypocrites I've ever met anywhere. But

611
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: that's not to say that one or the other is

612
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,359
Speaker 1: because of God or because of church. That's just how

613
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: those people are, you know, And I think you can

614
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:24,920
Speaker 1: put them in any group and they're essentially going to

615
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,880
Speaker 1: be that version of themselves in any group anyway.

616
00:37:28,600 --> 00:37:28,879
Speaker 2: You know.

617
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,479
Speaker 1: But why do you think that? Why do you think

618
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: that church attendants and probably others, you know, other religions

619
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:40,959
Speaker 1: in Australia anyway, has not all but some fallen through

620
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: the floor. Like my mum and dad, you know, they

621
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:48,239
Speaker 1: go to massa Sunday morning, and you know, it used

622
00:37:48,280 --> 00:37:50,399
Speaker 1: to be I don't know where they go three four

623
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,560
Speaker 1: hundred people on a Sunday. Now it's like thirty older people.

624
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:57,760
Speaker 1: It's like thirty people that are the average age eighty

625
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,279
Speaker 1: eighty five. Yeah.

626
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:02,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, I think the statistics would tell us that

627
00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 2: there are certain churches, let's call them, even denominations, that

628
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,880
Speaker 2: are growing, that you have some spike, that do have

629
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:16,480
Speaker 2: some credibility. And I think it's those churches who understand

630
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: what love looks like, whereas those who are sticking true

631
00:38:22,880 --> 00:38:28,200
Speaker 2: to the doctrinal right and wrongs and the rituals and

632
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: the which are great for those people who grew up

633
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 2: in it, they're just not very attractive to people who

634
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,000
Speaker 2: who haven't been brought up in it. In terms of

635
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: a newcomer coming in and you know, the churches have

636
00:38:40,040 --> 00:38:43,240
Speaker 2: these rules, and unless you are in the in crowd,

637
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 2: you therefore don't know the rules. And therefore you come

638
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:48,480
Speaker 2: in and you go, I'm not sure how to behave here.

639
00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:50,840
Speaker 2: I don't know how this works, and there's nobody there

640
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,759
Speaker 2: necessarily welcoming you in to show you how to do this.

641
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 2: You know, how do I open this book? Or what

642
00:38:57,760 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 2: do I do with this candle? Do I stand?

643
00:38:59,280 --> 00:38:59,680
Speaker 1: Do I sit?

644
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 2: Do you know? Am I meant to close my eyes

645
00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 2: or open my eyes? Like there's the user experience as

646
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 2: a newcomer is really really tricky in some of the

647
00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:16,800
Speaker 2: more traditional parishes and churches and experiences. So I think, look,

648
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 2: and we don't want to just heap everything onto our

649
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: experience of COVID. But when we weren't allowed to meet,

650
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,240
Speaker 2: that changed a lot of organizations, a lot of systems,

651
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 2: a lot of workplaces, a lot of clubs and groups

652
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:38,040
Speaker 2: and and we across the board. As a generalization, probably

653
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 2: haven't recovered came much much easier to stay at home,

654
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 2: you know, a little bit like work. Actually, you can

655
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:46,920
Speaker 2: flick on the washing, you can do a few bits

656
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 2: and pieces in between. Doesn't mean that you're less engaged

657
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,960
Speaker 2: or that you're less productive. From a church experience, what

658
00:39:54,000 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 2: you can do is you can watch online, you can

659
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:58,920
Speaker 2: tune in online, you can you know, effectively absorb it.

660
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:01,640
Speaker 2: But what you miss sing out on by not showing

661
00:40:01,719 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 2: up is you're missing out on what we call fellowship connection,

662
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 2: the cup of tea afterwards that you know, how did

663
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 2: your meeting with such and such or the doctor you

664
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 2: were going to the doctor, like all those personal connections. Unfortunately,

665
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,719
Speaker 2: the church used to be the hub of that, and

666
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 2: it was regular and it was very normal, and it

667
00:40:22,480 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 2: was part of a community. Nowadays, the church also has

668
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:31,279
Speaker 2: gone online, like much of our social interactions, like you know,

669
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,040
Speaker 2: like for example, you know, you and I were doing

670
00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 2: a reasonable job of connecting and being even though we're

671
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,719
Speaker 2: not in the same room. You would recall how much

672
00:40:41,000 --> 00:40:44,359
Speaker 2: different it is to record a conversation like this if

673
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,240
Speaker 2: we were in the same room. There's a different energy

674
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: there's a different buzz. There's something different when you actually

675
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: get to connect and you know, shake hands, give each

676
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,319
Speaker 2: other a hug, kind of you feel the energy which

677
00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: you just don't get in this online space. And our

678
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,360
Speaker 2: young people and us as old folks as well. So

679
00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 2: much of our interaction now is on a screen, and

680
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,879
Speaker 2: it's missing something. And as I was saying before, it's

681
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,400
Speaker 2: not until you work out you'll try and put something

682
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: back in, like connection, like real human connection in the

683
00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 2: same room where you can push shoulders and nudge into

684
00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 2: each other. While that's missing. Until you put it back,

685
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: you don't realize that it's missing. But I'm telling you

686
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 2: we're missing it.

687
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,279
Speaker 1: You know, it's interesting. I love all of that. You're

688
00:41:28,280 --> 00:41:30,320
Speaker 1: probably aware that I'm running a thing at the moment

689
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,600
Speaker 1: which by the time people hear this, it'll be done.

690
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,400
Speaker 1: It's just called typ the U Project Kickstart seven day Kickstart,

691
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: and I get or the U Project my website Craigcarpa

692
00:41:41,440 --> 00:41:45,000
Speaker 1: dot net. We get around one hundred emails a day

693
00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:48,359
Speaker 1: and I just can't answer them right and neither can

694
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: Moless this, so we have an auto reply. But I'm

695
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:54,680
Speaker 1: constantly people constantly want to answers to questions. Some of

696
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,160
Speaker 1: them I can answer, some of them I can't. I

697
00:41:58,200 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: mean literally I don't have the answer, and people want

698
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:04,280
Speaker 1: help and people want you know, and I put out

699
00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,719
Speaker 1: an episode like this every day of the year, seven

700
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,640
Speaker 1: days a week, for however many years we're heading. We're

701
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:14,760
Speaker 1: past eight ten hundred episodes the other day. But it's funny,

702
00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: I was thinking about a week and a half ago, mate,

703
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: about what can I actually do that's practical, like other

704
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,319
Speaker 1: than just get you know this. What we're doing now

705
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: is good. It's talking, it's theory, but there's no action

706
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 1: attached to this unless somebody decides to and that's cool

707
00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,680
Speaker 1: as well. And of course, you know, so this is

708
00:42:33,719 --> 00:42:37,560
Speaker 1: a theoretical kind of forum where you and I share

709
00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,759
Speaker 1: thoughts and ideas and stories and beliefs and concepts, and

710
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: then people go, yeah, that was rubbish or that was good,

711
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: or hey, I might give I might look into that,

712
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: or I might give this ago whatever. But last week

713
00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: so I decided I'm going to actually create a program

714
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:56,719
Speaker 1: that people can do. They can volunteer. There's going to

715
00:42:56,719 --> 00:43:00,799
Speaker 1: be five different areas, you know, cognitive and person development

716
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: and cardio and strength, and one another that slips my

717
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:10,479
Speaker 1: mind anyway, and different activities in each thing so people

718
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 1: can just go, I'm going to do this thing with

719
00:43:12,719 --> 00:43:16,240
Speaker 1: Craig's group, and I put it on the New Project

720
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 1: Facebook page and every day I'm recording a video. We've

721
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:25,399
Speaker 1: got hundreds of people doing it. I'm writing a new

722
00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:27,799
Speaker 1: program every day, which takes me over an hour to

723
00:43:27,800 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: write because I'm trying to factor in all of the

724
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,920
Speaker 1: variables around different humans and different bodies and brains and needs.

725
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 1: And it's honestly, it's a lot of work, but it's cool,

726
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,879
Speaker 1: and I'm charging and I'm not trying to say I'm

727
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: a good bloke because I'm not that, but I'm charging zero.

728
00:43:42,840 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: And there's nothing at the end that's not like, oh

729
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 1: you do this, and now I'm selling you that. There's

730
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 1: no cell right, and the amount of people who just

731
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,800
Speaker 1: feel loved and valued because I'm just doing something for nothing,

732
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,120
Speaker 1: and of course I do other things which are not

733
00:43:57,239 --> 00:44:00,399
Speaker 1: for nothing, but consciously going and I reckon. I've had

734
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:05,319
Speaker 1: twenty thirty more. I've had at least fifty messages and

735
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:08,000
Speaker 1: emails from people going thank you, thank you, this is awesome,

736
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: this is what I needed. And I'm like, my privilege

737
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,360
Speaker 1: You're welcome. I'm so glad you're doing it. Keep going, you,

738
00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,239
Speaker 1: You're amazing. And then a bunch of people going, I'm

739
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:21,480
Speaker 1: really glad you're doing it, But why are you doing it?

740
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,080
Speaker 1: This is a lot of work. I go because I

741
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: just like, I just want people to get that sometimes

742
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,400
Speaker 1: someone will just do something for you. It's not about

743
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,919
Speaker 1: my brand. It's not about money. Like there's a lot

744
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:37,600
Speaker 1: I could build my brand without doing this, or could

745
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: I could take the time that I'm an energy and

746
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: invest in something that's more financially rewarding and all of that.

747
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: But I love that where you go do something for

748
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: somebody that where there's no strategy in it, Like there's

749
00:44:52,320 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 1: no strategy, you can't get anything back, and this is

750
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: just you going ah. And I know you do this

751
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,440
Speaker 1: all the time time because I know your work and

752
00:45:01,520 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: I know you and what I'm talking about right now

753
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:08,959
Speaker 1: you do every day. But then extrapolating on that kind

754
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 1: of biblical principle and in many other religions, it's a

755
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 1: principle of kindness and love and service and unconditional you know,

756
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 1: care and all of that. But then on top of

757
00:45:20,239 --> 00:45:25,359
Speaker 1: that is this other personal benefit that is when you

758
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:28,000
Speaker 1: actually have a focus and a purpose bigger than you.

759
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,840
Speaker 1: And I know I've said this many times, but I

760
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:35,720
Speaker 1: will always say it because we can be very self

761
00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 1: centered and self focused and selfish, but it doesn't work

762
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: like there's a time where you've got to focus on

763
00:45:43,760 --> 00:45:45,680
Speaker 1: you in terms of you know, getting your head out

764
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,160
Speaker 1: of your out of the dirt and you know, getting

765
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:51,520
Speaker 1: your stuff together and you know, looking after your health.

766
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: I'm making that I'm not talking about that. I'm talking

767
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: about that propensity. We have to be selfish, but when

768
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,560
Speaker 1: you open that door is like I'm just going to

769
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 1: do something for someone and yeah, I'm going to do

770
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 1: this other thing over here where I make a few bucks.

771
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:08,400
Speaker 1: But it's like it taps into a bunch of principles

772
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,400
Speaker 1: that just seem to work on a range of levels.

773
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,920
Speaker 2: Very much so. And I did. My wife came into

774
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: the room and I was balancing on one foot today

775
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:20,319
Speaker 2: and I'm better than average. You know, you gave us

776
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,959
Speaker 2: some statistics on how far or how long we should

777
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 2: be able to balance on one foot, and I was

778
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 2: doing okay. I thought balance was pretty good.

779
00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:28,560
Speaker 3: For me.

780
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:33,000
Speaker 2: And again, I thrive on this and I love to

781
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: be able to share it and because I mean, I'm

782
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 2: in a fortunate position like you, you have a particular audience,

783
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:41,120
Speaker 2: a group of people who hear you, listen to you,

784
00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,440
Speaker 2: want to hear what you think and want to hear

785
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,280
Speaker 2: what you say. Therefore, you're in a position of responsibility.

786
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 2: You have a responsibility I believe, to not only show

787
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 2: up for them, but also to lead them. And you're

788
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:59,319
Speaker 2: doing something to get them into action. Your motivation is

789
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:03,880
Speaker 2: you want to help absolutely. Their reason for getting involved

790
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,840
Speaker 2: might be, well, let me try this, or let me

791
00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,000
Speaker 2: be part of a community that's doing this. I like

792
00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:09,920
Speaker 2: the idea of being able to say, you know done

793
00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:13,800
Speaker 2: at the end of my session. We in our school,

794
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 2: and lots and lots of schools, whether they're state schools,

795
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 2: independent schools, all the schools love the idea of helping

796
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: our kids get into action. And by action, I mean

797
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,959
Speaker 2: and we call it community service or community links where

798
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,200
Speaker 2: we and I'm kind of involved in it, where I

799
00:47:30,320 --> 00:47:33,080
Speaker 2: love getting our young people, whether they're our three and

800
00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 2: four year olds at their level, our fourteen, fifteen or

801
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,440
Speaker 2: eighteen nineteen year olds, roll up this leaves, get some

802
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 2: dirt under your fingernails, and go out and help somebody.

803
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:46,400
Speaker 2: So we you know, for example, we not this weekend.

804
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,520
Speaker 2: Next weekend we're doing a walk and we will have

805
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty of our community go out and

806
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,440
Speaker 2: do this walk. It's a fundraising walk for the local

807
00:47:53,719 --> 00:47:56,880
Speaker 2: Monash Children's Hospital and shout out to them. We'll walk

808
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 2: and we'll support. We do a massive We have about

809
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 2: five hundred and fifty of our community get out on

810
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 2: Good Friday shaking teams for the Royal Children's Hospital Good

811
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,319
Speaker 2: Friday Appeal. We get kids shaving their head for the

812
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 2: Leukemia Foundation, we get kids giving up stuff for the

813
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 2: forty our FAMN and World Vision. The more we can

814
00:48:14,760 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 2: help our kids to realize their situation of privilege, to

815
00:48:20,320 --> 00:48:22,919
Speaker 2: get into the muck, get into the weeds, get into

816
00:48:22,960 --> 00:48:25,120
Speaker 2: that and go. You know what, there are people who

817
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:28,799
Speaker 2: are way, way, way more in need than you. What

818
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 2: can you do with your time, with your effort, with

819
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:35,319
Speaker 2: your skill, with your expertise, or with your money, go

820
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 2: and make a positive impact in other people? And I

821
00:48:38,719 --> 00:48:42,399
Speaker 2: love the thrill of watching these kids then go out

822
00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:44,080
Speaker 2: and do it and they feel good about it because

823
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:46,279
Speaker 2: there is kind of a it's that funny loop of

824
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:50,040
Speaker 2: selfish doing it for others. But you actually fill your

825
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:53,239
Speaker 2: own cup while you're caring for others. It's a win win.

826
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, yeah, all right. Last question I think this

827
00:48:58,360 --> 00:49:04,960
Speaker 1: is this is my curly quiquestion. Let's talk about the Bible. Now.

828
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:11,759
Speaker 1: Do you believe in a literal translation the historical accuracy

829
00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 1: of the Bible? Do you like, did a bloke really

830
00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: part the Red Sea? Did a bloke really walk on water?

831
00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: Did a bloke really turn water into wine or a

832
00:49:27,719 --> 00:49:30,800
Speaker 1: bit of or are some of that stories to share

833
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,839
Speaker 1: insights and messages? Where do you stand? I'm not trying

834
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:37,439
Speaker 1: to catch you out by the way, because I don't

835
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 1: even know where I I don't know where I stand.

836
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 1: I used to think everything was absolutely literal. Now I

837
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:46,319
Speaker 1: probably don't. But what about you?

838
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, it's a good question, It's a really good question.

839
00:49:50,520 --> 00:49:53,440
Speaker 2: I'm at the level of I think some of it

840
00:49:53,560 --> 00:49:57,600
Speaker 2: is story for learning, some of it is parable and

841
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:02,720
Speaker 2: there's a message behind why somebody might have told that story.

842
00:50:02,719 --> 00:50:05,240
Speaker 2: I believe that some of the words are the words

843
00:50:05,239 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 2: of God or the spoken word of Jesus in teaching

844
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 2: and preaching and sharing stories through parables, and there was

845
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,480
Speaker 2: a purpose for those I also believe that some of

846
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 2: the stuff is a historical account and some of the

847
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,400
Speaker 2: stuff actually happened. I do believe in miracles, and I

848
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:26,799
Speaker 2: believe in the miracles that the Bible speaks of because

849
00:50:28,160 --> 00:50:31,480
Speaker 2: they're still happening today. Then we're not parting the waters

850
00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,360
Speaker 2: of the Port Phillip Bay, but people are being healed

851
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:36,080
Speaker 2: through the point.

852
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,480
Speaker 1: I tell you if you could, if you could do that,

853
00:50:38,719 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: like if you could arrange. I don't want to put

854
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,760
Speaker 1: any pressure on, but you are a man of faith.

855
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,319
Speaker 1: If you could part the waters of Port Philip Bay,

856
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:50,919
Speaker 1: I'd get every news outlet there, and I reckon you

857
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:54,520
Speaker 1: might really boost the numbers at church at least for

858
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:55,560
Speaker 1: a weekend.

859
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,320
Speaker 2: Or two, so there's some interest.

860
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:00,479
Speaker 1: I want you to get a little righteous prayer going on, Paul.

861
00:51:00,520 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: I want you to get on your knees and seek

862
00:51:03,480 --> 00:51:09,279
Speaker 1: the big Guy and yeah, hey mate, tell everyone or

863
00:51:09,400 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: just quickly we didn't get there, let's get there now

864
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:16,399
Speaker 1: for a minute or two. Apart from this, apart from

865
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 1: all this God stuff, you are an incredible sketcher, drawer illustrator.

866
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: I call you like a cartoonist, which is not really

867
00:51:26,120 --> 00:51:29,319
Speaker 1: what you do, but you kind of I don't know

868
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,080
Speaker 1: what do you call it? Sketch noting. Where did that

869
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: come from? Where did that start? Tell us a bit

870
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,680
Speaker 1: about it. And when I say he's good, everyone, I'm

871
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:39,440
Speaker 1: not just saying it because he's on that like his

872
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 1: stuff is world class. Now I'll tell you when I

873
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: do a live event like You Project. Now, oh hey, everyone,

874
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 1: pencil this in your diary, just lightly because we're not positive,

875
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 1: but it looks like June one. We're doing a typ

876
00:51:55,719 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: event June one, all day and a bunch of other

877
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: guests from the You Project, and Pastor Paul might even

878
00:52:07,280 --> 00:52:09,799
Speaker 1: be off to the side of the stage sketching. Who knows,

879
00:52:09,840 --> 00:52:14,319
Speaker 1: but he comes along often and draws the speakers as

880
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 1: they're speaking. I don't know how you do that, so

881
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: you actually sketch the speakers speaking and also at the

882
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: same time almost do like a highlight reel in written

883
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:31,759
Speaker 1: words of their message. I've got no idea how you

884
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:32,520
Speaker 1: do that.

885
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,800
Speaker 2: That's the guts of what it is. So it's sketch notes,

886
00:52:34,840 --> 00:52:38,080
Speaker 2: the idea of sketch notes, and really quickly, the history

887
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:41,400
Speaker 2: of it for me is I did spend a lot

888
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:45,160
Speaker 2: of time in learning, both learning to be a teacher

889
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,080
Speaker 2: and learning in church, and I would take notes handwritten notes,

890
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:52,240
Speaker 2: and I would just feel books of pages and pages

891
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:56,040
Speaker 2: of notes, thinking that I've got to capture it all.

892
00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:58,359
Speaker 2: I've got to capture all this information and write it down,

893
00:52:58,400 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 2: and then I'll go back and i'll read it and

894
00:52:59,840 --> 00:53:01,560
Speaker 2: i'll study it, and i'll learn it, and i'll know it,

895
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,680
Speaker 2: and it'll all be good. Very very rarely would I

896
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:07,080
Speaker 2: go back and read it and study it and know it.

897
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: I came across this concept called, and it's called different things,

898
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:19,200
Speaker 2: graphic facilitation sketch notes, the idea of combining sketching or

899
00:53:19,320 --> 00:53:24,359
Speaker 2: drawing some visuals with written notes. And for me, when

900
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,400
Speaker 2: I started to play with it and practice at what

901
00:53:26,480 --> 00:53:28,960
Speaker 2: I found was I could go back to a page

902
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 2: of sketch notes which has got some visuals and got

903
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:36,160
Speaker 2: some hand lettering in it, and it's enjoyable for me

904
00:53:36,239 --> 00:53:38,880
Speaker 2: to look back at. I like going back and looking

905
00:53:38,920 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 2: at my sketch notes, and those little visual representations of

906
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,520
Speaker 2: a main message, a core message. They are the prompt

907
00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,040
Speaker 2: to help me remember the story that was being told,

908
00:53:50,160 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 2: or the principle that was being shared, or the message

909
00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 2: that was being delivered. Through the visual it takes me

910
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:59,400
Speaker 2: right back there and I can hear the story happening again,

911
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 2: and so the visual for me, I'm a visual thinker,

912
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:06,120
Speaker 2: a visual learner, and so the visuals helped me. So

913
00:54:06,239 --> 00:54:09,520
Speaker 2: now I create them, I listen. It has improved my

914
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:13,640
Speaker 2: listening and lots of my practice in terms of learning

915
00:54:13,680 --> 00:54:17,920
Speaker 2: how to do it was sitting in church and visually

916
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:21,440
Speaker 2: capturing through sketch notes, the message that the preacher might

917
00:54:21,440 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 2: have been delivering, sharing and then at the end of

918
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,480
Speaker 2: the message, I would share that on you know, I'm

919
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:30,399
Speaker 2: young enough and old enough to be able to share

920
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,880
Speaker 2: that to the church Facebook page and then share that

921
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,880
Speaker 2: with people, and people would walk away with a visual

922
00:54:35,880 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 2: representation of what the preacher just spoke. And I find

923
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,400
Speaker 2: it's good for me and I like sharing it with others.

924
00:54:44,239 --> 00:54:47,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, you're incredible at it. You know what I

925
00:54:47,640 --> 00:54:49,720
Speaker 1: just did while you were talking. I just took a photo.

926
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,320
Speaker 1: I'm wondering this is probably stretching the relationship. We'll see

927
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:58,400
Speaker 1: what if I'll send you this and then I wonder

928
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: if you could do a thing that we could use

929
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:05,960
Speaker 1: in the promo of this podcast. I wonder we.

930
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:12,960
Speaker 2: Should Definitely we'll explore that. And yeah, I do enjoy

931
00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:15,239
Speaker 2: it and it helps people and part of my I

932
00:55:15,239 --> 00:55:17,520
Speaker 2: guess my mission is to help people on their journey.

933
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 2: And I enjoy like messages from you, teaching from you.

934
00:55:23,239 --> 00:55:25,920
Speaker 2: I think it helps people. And one way to hear

935
00:55:25,960 --> 00:55:29,680
Speaker 2: it is on a podcast or go to a conference listen,

936
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,400
Speaker 2: you know, go to a workshop and it might be

937
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 2: an online workshop over a series of Tuesday nights or

938
00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,920
Speaker 2: whatever it is for me another way, because I'm because

939
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 2: I'm a learner and an educator, I know that not

940
00:55:41,719 --> 00:55:46,680
Speaker 2: everybody likes to hear it audibly sometimes visually as a

941
00:55:46,719 --> 00:55:49,920
Speaker 2: powerful way for them to resonate with the material, And

942
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 2: so I want to try and help people be exposed

943
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:58,520
Speaker 2: to those visual reminders and prompts and lessons that you

944
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,399
Speaker 2: might teach orally I can capture them visually and then

945
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:04,280
Speaker 2: together they become a powerful combination.

946
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I can't even explain everyone how good it is,

947
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,680
Speaker 1: Like I would have gone when I first met you,

948
00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:13,719
Speaker 1: and I think the first time you went I do

949
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:15,719
Speaker 1: a bit of this, Can I come along and do that?

950
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: And I went, yeah, all right, And then I went, oh,

951
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:25,080
Speaker 1: my goodness, this is ridiculous, Like I can't explain how

952
00:56:25,080 --> 00:56:25,800
Speaker 1: good they are.

953
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:28,560
Speaker 2: And can I just say that is exactly what you

954
00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 2: did because we had some relationship in a different sporting

955
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:35,360
Speaker 2: experience years before. And I turned up at one of

956
00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:37,680
Speaker 2: your conferences. I had my haad, a paper and a

957
00:56:37,680 --> 00:56:40,000
Speaker 2: couple of pins, and I said, just by the way,

958
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:41,200
Speaker 2: I'm going to sit up the back there and I'm

959
00:56:41,239 --> 00:56:44,040
Speaker 2: going to sketch note. And you go, what like, yeah, whatever,

960
00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:46,600
Speaker 2: do whatever. And then I told you at the end

961
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:50,759
Speaker 2: of the conference, and yes, you were suitably impressed. And

962
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,319
Speaker 2: I appreciate that and have enjoyed being involved in that

963
00:56:54,719 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 2: over the journey.

964
00:56:56,160 --> 00:56:59,960
Speaker 1: Wow, I was. I've got another question, then we'll go.

965
00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:03,880
Speaker 1: I've always wondered a little bit why the Man of

966
00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:09,160
Speaker 1: God listens to the Sinful Podcast and the Backslin and Heathen,

967
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: He who's got one foot in the darkness? Why do

968
00:57:13,600 --> 00:57:15,839
Speaker 1: you listen to this show? And I know you listen

969
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,240
Speaker 1: to it, you know regularly, like you're a I don't

970
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:23,040
Speaker 1: know if you're a fan, but you definitely listen. But

971
00:57:23,160 --> 00:57:26,800
Speaker 1: most pastors would never listen to this show. Most most

972
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 1: religious men or women would not listen to this show.

973
00:57:30,960 --> 00:57:34,040
Speaker 1: In fact, if you are a person of if you're

974
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,200
Speaker 1: a religious minister or similar, and you listen to this show,

975
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: send me a message because I think Paul's the only one.

976
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:46,240
Speaker 2: It's a good question, and I must admit I've You've

977
00:57:46,280 --> 00:57:48,880
Speaker 2: tried not to. I've tried to share with a few

978
00:57:48,920 --> 00:57:52,560
Speaker 2: other people and they haven't got very far into one

979
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:56,680
Speaker 2: episode and they go, can't I can't cope, and I

980
00:57:57,320 --> 00:57:59,920
Speaker 2: normally warn them he's Captain mcsweary, you know, like just

981
00:58:00,040 --> 00:58:03,160
Speaker 2: you've got to get past that. Look. I guess I

982
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,160
Speaker 2: resonate with some of your messages. I think it's powerful.

983
00:58:07,240 --> 00:58:10,720
Speaker 2: I think you, also, like me, are about trying to

984
00:58:10,720 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 2: help people live their best and to find their best.

985
00:58:14,320 --> 00:58:18,600
Speaker 2: And from my perspective, you know, I come from a

986
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:22,640
Speaker 2: perspective that says, you know, there's a creation, there's a

987
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:28,200
Speaker 2: fullness of life, there's an essential gifting and talent that

988
00:58:28,280 --> 00:58:31,160
Speaker 2: we have, and I would want to try and help

989
00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 2: people find that talent and then use that talent. I think,

990
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,880
Speaker 2: in different words, you're trying to do the same thing.

991
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: You want people to dig deep inside of themselves and

992
00:58:40,200 --> 00:58:42,640
Speaker 2: find the best that they are, and then find a

993
00:58:42,680 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 2: way to share that with others, to deliver that with others,

994
00:58:45,520 --> 00:58:47,840
Speaker 2: make an impact with others. You want people to live

995
00:58:47,880 --> 00:58:50,600
Speaker 2: their best life, and so do I. We go about

996
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:53,760
Speaker 2: it differently. We use different stories and different language and

997
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,640
Speaker 2: different mediums, and we've got a different audience, but we're

998
00:58:56,680 --> 00:59:00,000
Speaker 2: actually both on the same game. We're trying to help

999
00:59:00,120 --> 00:59:01,320
Speaker 2: other people be their best.

1000
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:06,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to be more like you, mate. Where

1001
00:59:06,760 --> 00:59:10,840
Speaker 1: can people contact you, connect with you? How does that happen?

1002
00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? So I do have from a sketch noting perspective,

1003
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:17,160
Speaker 2: I do have a website, you know, and there's some

1004
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:19,880
Speaker 2: of my work on there. It's called hand Drawn Today,

1005
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:24,240
Speaker 2: So www dot hand drawn today dot com. Some of

1006
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:25,880
Speaker 2: my sketch notes are there, and I think there's a

1007
00:59:25,880 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 2: couple of the U Project conference sketch notes in there

1008
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:30,440
Speaker 2: as well. You can have a look at but you

1009
00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 2: can reach out through there. I do hang around on Facebook,

1010
00:59:33,400 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 2: just as all joy and I share a message every

1011
00:59:36,200 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 2: now and then, and some drawings on there as well.

1012
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 2: I've got an email address. Do you want an email address?

1013
00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:45,680
Speaker 2: Your phone number? Two email address? Probably the best one

1014
00:59:45,720 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 2: again is hand Drawn Today at gmail dot com. And

1015
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:52,680
Speaker 2: if you contact Craig, he'll probably give you my phone

1016
00:59:52,720 --> 00:59:54,240
Speaker 2: number and we can chat about that too.

1017
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:58,919
Speaker 1: I probably won't give you his fine number, but email him. Hey, mate,

1018
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:02,520
Speaker 1: we'll say goodbye. Fair but that was great. I really

1019
01:00:02,600 --> 01:00:06,040
Speaker 1: enjoyed that. Thanks for being on the You project. Nice debut.

1020
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:08,000
Speaker 1: I think we're going to get you back, and you

1021
01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: come at the right price, so boom boom be a pleasure.

1022
01:00:12,200 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 2: Thank you,