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Speaker 1: From The Australian. Here's what's on the front. I'm Claire Harvey.

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Speaker 1: It's Monday, August twenty five, twenty twenty five. It's a

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Speaker 1: real life medical drama. One of the most powerful doctors' unions,

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Speaker 1: the Royal College of Physicians, has exploded into infighting, threats

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Speaker 1: of resignation, contested allegations of bullying and claims of a

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Speaker 1: boys club culture. That's an exclusive live right now at

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Speaker 1: the Australian dot Com dot Au. Taiwan is accusing Australia

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Speaker 1: of buckling to Chinese pressure to shut it out of

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Speaker 1: a regional trade agreement. That's as China demands the world

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Speaker 1: acknowledge its right to take back what it considers a

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Speaker 1: rogue province. A weekend of protests and high drama as

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Speaker 1: the world awaits Israel's promised takeover of Gaza City as

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Speaker 1: Benjamin Nettania, who denies the UN's claim of famine in

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Speaker 1: Gaza now Hamas, reportedly wants to revive stalled ceasefire negotiations

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Speaker 1: by agreeing to release hostages it's been holding since the

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Speaker 1: October seven terror attacks. Today, Chief International Correspondent Cameron Stewart

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Speaker 1: joins me to explain the military and diplomatic strategies at

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Speaker 1: play in the vibrant democracy that is Israel. Protesters express

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Speaker 1: fears for the hostages still held by Hamas terrorists in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump suggests some of them may already be dead.

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Speaker 2: What they had to go through is incredible. But so

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Speaker 2: now they have twenty. But the twenty is actually probably

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Speaker 2: not twenty, because a couple may be find around any longer.

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Speaker 2: It's a terrible thing.

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Speaker 1: As the United Nations declares a famine, it is a famine,

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Speaker 1: the Gaza famine, and the office of Prime Minister Benjamin Nettiner,

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Speaker 1: who angrily decries that claim as a blood libel. As

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Speaker 1: more protests unfold on the streets of Brisbane and Sydney,

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Speaker 1: the world is waiting to see what Israel's promised invasion

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Speaker 1: of Gaza City will actually look like and whether it

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Speaker 1: will help reach Israel's war goals, free the hostages and

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Speaker 1: eliminate har mass leadership for good.

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Speaker 2: The situation has to end. It's extortion, and it has

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Speaker 2: to end, and we'll see what happens. I actually think

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Speaker 2: they're safer in many ways. If you went in and

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Speaker 2: you really went in fast, and you did.

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Speaker 1: It I asked Chief International Correspondent Cameron Stewart to step

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Speaker 1: through the three streams of what's happening in Gaza. Dispute

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Speaker 1: about a humanitarian crisis, Israel's threatened invasion of Gaza City,

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Speaker 1: and first the stall negotiations in Qatar between Israel and Hamas.

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Speaker 1: Remember just a month ago we were about to have

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Speaker 1: a sixty day ceasefire and the release of ten hostages.

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Speaker 1: What can we discern right now about Israel's position?

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Speaker 2: Well, Netnia, who has not actually given his response, Hamas

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Speaker 2: surprisingly came back and said they were now willing to

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Speaker 2: take this deal that releasing ten living hostages is only

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Speaker 2: thought to be twenty living hostages left in return for

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Speaker 2: a sixty day ceasefire, and of course the release of

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Speaker 2: hundreds of Palestinian prisoners. That's almost precisely the exact same

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Speaker 2: deal that they rejected, clear just a matter of weeks ago.

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Speaker 2: But the question is now where a Netnia has moved

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Speaker 2: beyond that? Will he accept that he's under pressure to

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Speaker 2: accept that by a largess proportion of the Israeli population.

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Speaker 2: But subsequent to Hamas saying no, he has said we

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Speaker 2: are now going to take Gaza militarily. So we don't

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Speaker 2: know whether net Nyahu is going to be tempted by

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Speaker 2: this supposed seaspire offered by Hermas or whether he has

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Speaker 2: just gone beyond that and he's just going to try

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Speaker 2: and keep going and destroy her Musk militarily through taking

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Speaker 2: over Gaza City.

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Speaker 1: Thinking about that tactically, from Hermas's point of view, cam

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Speaker 1: what's going on there? What's their strategy?

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Speaker 2: Their strategy is puzzling in the sense that you can

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Speaker 2: ask why they didn't take this deal when Israel was

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Speaker 2: very keen to take the deal just a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you can take the line that they now

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Speaker 2: feel under more pressure because subsequent to that is when

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Speaker 2: Netnia who said he was going to take over Gaza,

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Speaker 2: there are preparations on the outskirts of Gaza City at

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Speaker 2: the moment, whether the Israeli military the IDF is actually

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Speaker 2: making inroads slowly, so from a Mussa's point of view,

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Speaker 2: they are under more pressure than they were previously. But

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Speaker 2: that's the only reason that you can think of why

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Speaker 2: they've suddenly come to the table now when they did

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Speaker 2: in a couple of weeks ago with exactly the same proposal.

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Speaker 1: Her Maas's goal since October seven, has been to shame

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Speaker 1: Israel internationally, to provoke Israel into a response that it

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Speaker 1: knew would make Israel look bad in the eyes of

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Speaker 1: the world. The new development, of course, is that countries

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Speaker 1: like Australia, France, the United Kingdom are saying that they're

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Speaker 1: going to recognize Palestine at the United Nations. Is it

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Speaker 1: possible that this is a delaying tactic by Hamas to

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Speaker 1: keep the humanitarian crisis going until at least that's happened.

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Speaker 2: It is possible because Imus honestly does not care at

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Speaker 2: all about the suffering of the Palestinian people. It's the

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Speaker 2: one that reaped all of this habit with the October

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Speaker 2: seven attack on Israelis In twenty twenty three, it has

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Speaker 2: consistently done everything it can to maximize the Suberian casualties.

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Speaker 2: With its behavior, it could easily let out the hostages

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Speaker 2: in the war tomorrow. People often forget that Hamas, we

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Speaker 2: must remember, is not a very coordinated body at the moment.

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Speaker 2: It is very much damaged by the Israeli attacks. Many

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Speaker 2: of its commanders are killed. It's not even certain how

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Speaker 2: coherent the decision making body within HAMAS is at the moment,

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Speaker 2: there's no AMAS police on in Gazara inim where they

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Speaker 2: are not governing the territory in any way whatsoever. Hamas

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Speaker 2: does not put its head above the parapet in any

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Speaker 2: way at all. So it's very hard to know exactly

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Speaker 2: what's going on in Hamasa's mind and exactly who are

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Speaker 2: those minds, who are those commanders, And I think even

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Speaker 2: Israel has trouble really knowing who to speak to in

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Speaker 2: Hamas these days.

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Speaker 1: The United Nations declared on Friday for the first time

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Speaker 1: that there is a famine in northern Gaza, talking about

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Speaker 1: five hundred and fourteen thousand people, which is about a

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Speaker 1: quarter of the people in the Gaza Strip, are experiencing famine.

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Speaker 1: That number is growing. Israel is absolutely denying this. It's

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Speaker 1: taking issue with one of the measures that the UN

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Speaker 1: is using. The UN is using upper arm circumference measures.

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Speaker 1: Israel says that's unfair because in the past when assessing

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Speaker 1: famine they've used to wait for height index. The issue

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Speaker 1: here cam is about the flow of aid into Gaza

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Speaker 1: and what's happening to that aid once it gets in.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it Viously on the front we've talked about how

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Speaker 1: Israel made the decision to stop the existing system, which

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Speaker 1: was the UN distributing aid because they believe so much

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Speaker 1: of it was being stolen by Hamas. What do we

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Speaker 1: know now about the current distribution of aid and whether

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Speaker 1: or not it's working well.

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Speaker 2: There's still a lot of contested issues here, Claire. Certainly

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Speaker 2: Israel has tried to increase the inflow of aid into Garza,

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Speaker 2: but United Nations says that this is very limited, too little,

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Speaker 2: too late. It also accuses Israel of continuing to block

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Speaker 2: the roots where those UN trucks can go in there.

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Speaker 2: That's one bed, but the second aspect is that the

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Speaker 2: hunger levels are such that often when those trucks do

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Speaker 2: go in there, they actually do get attacked by either

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Speaker 2: desperate people or by criminals. Criminals who steal the aid

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Speaker 2: and then resell it for a profit. Hammas is certainly

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Speaker 2: guilty of that to some extent as well. No one

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Speaker 2: really knows exactly how much food a mass is stealing,

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Speaker 2: but very few people would deny that they are stealing

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Speaker 2: at least some of it. So Israel has now opened

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Speaker 2: up the gates of Gaza to some extent to und liveries.

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Speaker 2: But the trouble is that there's going to have to

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Speaker 2: be a lot more to actually offset the humanitarian crisis,

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Speaker 2: and at the moment that tap has not been turned

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Speaker 2: on to anything like the degree it needs to, and

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Speaker 2: that's why we've still got the severe problems we are

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Speaker 2: seeing in Gaza. Clearly there is a humanitarian crisis there,

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Speaker 2: and the television pictures to speak for themselves.

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Speaker 1: Coming up, what Israel's promised takeover of Gaza City will

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Speaker 1: look like? Can let's talk about what the invasion of

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Speaker 1: Gaza City would actually look like. The IDF says presently

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Speaker 1: that it controls seventy five percent of the Gaza strip

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Speaker 1: that was achieved under an operation it called Gideon's Chariots.

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Speaker 1: This is called Gideon's Chariots two. It's called up two

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Speaker 1: thousand reservists and extended the terms of twenty thousand personnel

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Speaker 1: who were serving. Some people are on their fifth or

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Speaker 1: sixth tour of Gaza now people in the IDF. So

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Speaker 1: how do we think the IDF will actually execute an

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Speaker 1: invasion of Gaza City.

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Speaker 2: Well, we haven't make an assumption there that this is

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Speaker 2: actually Benjamin Netie as Intention Claire. It is always possible

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Speaker 2: that this is a big statement, and that this is

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Speaker 2: really part of Netne's negotiating strategy with Hamas to flush

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Speaker 2: them out. The fact that the IDEF would go into

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Speaker 2: Gaza City, such a big city, is such a crucial city,

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Speaker 2: and a city where a lot of the remnants of

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Speaker 2: Hamas are reportedly staying, is a huge thing. And so

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Speaker 2: I think it's not at all certain that this is

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Speaker 2: an operation that will necessarily go ahead, but as we speak,

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Speaker 2: certainly preparations look like they're taking place. What's happened is

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Speaker 2: the IDF has secured the outskirts of Gaza City. Israel

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Speaker 2: said that it will evacuate the city. That call has

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Speaker 2: not come as yet, but that would be a big

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Speaker 2: and a difficult process for a lot of people in

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Speaker 2: the city, who of course have been evacuated several times before.

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Speaker 2: And it's a dangerous operation. I mean that has been

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Speaker 2: reported that the head of the Idea of was opposed

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Speaker 2: to the operation because quite clearly it puts a lot

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Speaker 2: of Israeli soldiers at risk, which obviously cause more civilian casualties.

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Speaker 2: But Netniel is adamant that is the only way really

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Speaker 2: to try and mop up, if you like, the remnants

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Speaker 2: of Hamas.

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Speaker 1: Do you think it's possible if Ntnia who does go

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Speaker 1: ahead with that, that he has made the decision that

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Speaker 1: there is no getting these hostages back. Maybe some of

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Speaker 1: those twenty are dead, they're never going to actually be

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Speaker 1: able to retrieve them, and that they may end up

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Speaker 1: being casualties of this tactic.

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Speaker 2: It is always possible he's made that unspoken assumption. Donald

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Speaker 2: Trump interestingly said that he actually believes going in will

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Speaker 2: potentially increase the chances of getting the hostages back, because

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Speaker 2: negotiations are not succeeding in that front. But you would

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Speaker 2: have to think logically that it would put the hostages

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Speaker 2: under greater danger to have this sort of actual ground offensive.

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Speaker 2: But that's the big debate in Israel at the moment,

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Speaker 2: of course, something we've seen very big demonstrations on the

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Speaker 2: streets of Israel over this weekend. The people who want

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Speaker 2: the war to end and the hostages to be released.

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Speaker 2: In other words, negotiated settlement with Hamas are increasing in Israel,

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Speaker 2: and that's obviously putting pressure on Benjamin Netanya who as well.

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Speaker 2: But look Netna, who is certainly a very determined character,

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Speaker 2: and we are not seeing him appear to buckle under

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Speaker 2: that pressure roule. He certainly is stating in his public

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Speaker 2: comments that he's going ahead with the assault on Gaza

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Speaker 2: City and he does intend for the idea to take

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Speaker 2: over Gaza, That's what he's saying. At least.

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Speaker 1: Critics of both Netanya Who and of Hamas say that

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Speaker 1: neither of them actually want this war to end. What

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Speaker 1: do you think about that?

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Speaker 2: I think Benjamin Nya, who he's had a lot of

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Speaker 2: strategic success in the last two years. He's destroyed Hezbalah

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Speaker 2: in Lebanon, He's cowered Iran, he has done some remarkable

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Speaker 2: things for Israel's security under the circumstances. But I think

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Speaker 2: in Gaza, Claire Netna, who is struggling to work out

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Speaker 2: how best to get peace to get to that zone,

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Speaker 2: because his actual static claims for victory is to destroy

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Speaker 2: Hamas and remove them from power. And the question really

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Speaker 2: is being asked increasingly is it possible to actually completely

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Speaker 2: destroy a militant group like Amas. I mean, they're going

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Speaker 2: to be ragtag militants. How do you actually destroy them properly?

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Speaker 2: Is that possible? And of course, if Netna who were

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Speaker 2: to accept a hostage release deal for Israel's withdrawal as

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Speaker 2: Hamas wants. If he was to accept that, that would

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Speaker 2: be an imperfect piece for him, because his actual stated

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Speaker 2: aim from the very day one, on October eighth, twenty

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Speaker 2: twenty three, was Hermas must be removed from power, demilitarized

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Speaker 2: and expelled from Gaza, and that just hasn't happened, and

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Speaker 2: it's not easy to see how it can happen. And

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Speaker 2: from Amasa's perspective, they don't want the water to win

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Speaker 2: because they will cease to exist. There is no tomorrow

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Speaker 2: for Hamas once this war ends, so they clearly have

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Speaker 2: a stake also in continuing fight for as long as

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Speaker 2: they reasonably can, especially when every single month of this

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Speaker 2: operation tends to isolate is around more on the international stage.

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Speaker 1: Cameron Stewart is The Australian's chief international correspondent. This conflict

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Speaker 1: moves fast, and so does The Australian, with our network

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Speaker 1: of correspondents around the world bringing us subscribers the latest

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Speaker 1: around the clock. Join us at the Australian dot com

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Speaker 1: dot au