1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,640 Speaker 1: Tommy Jacket, Welcome to the Bloody You Project. 2 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:07,320 Speaker 2: Hi, thanks for having me. Craig go oh god. 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,720 Speaker 1: I've missed you. You and I have not spoken as 4 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: in a conversation. We had a sixty seconds one a 5 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 1: sixty second one earlier today, which wasn't It was like 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 1: quick catch up and do you want to do a 7 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: potty and tell me what you've been up to? And 8 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: you went, nah, can't, it's a secret. Then you went nah, 9 00:00:22,360 --> 00:00:24,560 Speaker 1: I can, and then you went nah, I can't. I can, 10 00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: uh some of it, not all of it. So I'm curious. 11 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:32,559 Speaker 1: But in general terms, Hi, how are you? 12 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,199 Speaker 2: I'm great mate. This is a great time of year. 13 00:00:35,640 --> 00:00:37,479 Speaker 2: Do you like? Do you like like the lead up 14 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:41,200 Speaker 2: to Chrissy New Year's I do? 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,480 Speaker 1: I do? I generally, I generally do, and I won't 16 00:00:44,560 --> 00:00:46,880 Speaker 1: go into great detail. A bit sad this year because 17 00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: a family friend is very very unwell, someone very close 18 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,160 Speaker 1: to our family and my family, so it's a bit sad. 19 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,840 Speaker 1: But in general terms, yeah, Christy is good. It's like 20 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:01,920 Speaker 1: everyone like the mood lightens and people take the foot 21 00:01:01,920 --> 00:01:04,280 Speaker 1: off the gas a little bit. But it's an interesting 22 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,840 Speaker 1: time because for some people, isn't it interesting that for 23 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: some people it's a time of connection and fun and 24 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: joy and love and giving and getting, and for some 25 00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: people it's a time of isolation and loneliness. And so, 26 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: you know, without being a downer, yeah, it's it's an 27 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: interesting time of the year because either way it's going 28 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: to evoke certain feelings and emotions. 29 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I kind of do have that love 30 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: hate with it because I enjoy the time and the 31 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:38,679 Speaker 2: sort of vibe of Australia around the Christmas you know, 32 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 2: that end of December jan break. But then I also 33 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 2: lose all momentum I've gathered from the year, and by 34 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: the time I come back into work, I feel like 35 00:01:50,520 --> 00:01:54,920 Speaker 2: I've you know, got no steam or I find that 36 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:56,600 Speaker 2: I find it hard to pick it back up, even 37 00:01:56,600 --> 00:02:00,040 Speaker 2: though I have a bit of clarity around, you know, 38 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: what I'm doing. But I also find momentum is so 39 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,760 Speaker 2: powerful from you know, midway through the year to the 40 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 2: back end. And then yeah, it is quite disruptive in 41 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 2: that way. So love hate, but more love than hate. 42 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: Do you think you are? Like how old are you now? 43 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:25,440 Speaker 1: I'm twenty two, you know, I forgot so you're thirty 44 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:30,080 Speaker 1: five or thirty six? Yeah, And I've known you since 45 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: literally since you're a teenager, and you remind me of 46 00:02:34,919 --> 00:02:37,120 Speaker 1: me in that you're better looking than me, and smarter 47 00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: than me and more creative than me. But other than that, 48 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 1: other than that, you remind me of me in that 49 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: it's like you never really wanted a real job. Like 50 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 1: it's not that you didn't want to work. You wanted 51 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: to work, but you didn't want a traditional Nothing wrong 52 00:02:51,480 --> 00:02:54,239 Speaker 1: with traditional jobs or roles, but you know that nine 53 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 1: to five, put on a suit, drive somewhere, do a job, 54 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:01,120 Speaker 1: leave that place, drive home. That's not really for you, 55 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:03,800 Speaker 1: and that's not really for me. But I feel like 56 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: watching you over the years where this passion and creativity 57 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: has intersected with making money and supporting your family and 58 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: meeting people and travel, it's like this synergy now of 59 00:03:20,880 --> 00:03:24,760 Speaker 1: a bunch of different things that just happens to make money. 60 00:03:24,919 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: Does it feel like a job? 61 00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, not really, because if it felt like a job, 62 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,440 Speaker 2: I wouldn't be doing it. I'd be doing something else. 63 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,120 Speaker 2: But in saying that, even though my life doesn't always 64 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:39,440 Speaker 2: you know, it doesn't necessarily feel like a job. And 65 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: to be clear, that's probably what I've always had as 66 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:48,160 Speaker 2: a driver to work away from So that's been sort 67 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: of anchored in wanting to find those things that don't 68 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 2: feel like work or that aligns so much with the 69 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: things that I'm passionate about so that they don't feel 70 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: like that. But there's been a long time that I 71 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:07,520 Speaker 2: made no money, very little, not making you know, millions now, 72 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: But I'm just I'm making more than I was when 73 00:04:09,400 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: I first started out. And that's probably the challenges though. 74 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 2: When people try and do things that are a passion 75 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 2: you know that they really truly love, Converting it to 76 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 2: some kind of monetary reward is tricky, but they still 77 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 2: stick at it because it's so rewarding from a you know, 78 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:30,359 Speaker 2: values perspective. 79 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 1: Could you give There'll be people listening today who've never 80 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,760 Speaker 1: met you because you haven't been on for a little while, 81 00:04:36,839 --> 00:04:38,560 Speaker 1: and there'll be lots of people who know you a bit, 82 00:04:39,040 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: and there'll be a few people who know you really well. 83 00:04:41,160 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: But could you just tell people what you do? Like, 84 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,719 Speaker 1: give us a snapshot, Like you and I meet in 85 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: a bar and I go mate sixty seconds or whatever. 86 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,200 Speaker 1: Tell me how you make money, what you do and 87 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:53,920 Speaker 1: how it works. 88 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:56,599 Speaker 2: Well, if I met you in a bar, I'd say, firstly, 89 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,599 Speaker 2: what are you doing in about? And secondly, you're my father? 90 00:04:58,680 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 2: How do you not know this stuff exactly exactly? 91 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,719 Speaker 1: I'm Tommy's cyber dad. Sorry, good dad, pseudo dad. But 92 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,600 Speaker 1: all right, pretend I'm a stranger. 93 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,919 Speaker 2: I mean, I struggled to say that, but if I 94 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,039 Speaker 2: was to sort of lean into that, because I would 95 00:05:16,040 --> 00:05:19,400 Speaker 2: probably ask questions about them first before me. But what 96 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,720 Speaker 2: I do for a job is video production and podcast production. 97 00:05:23,360 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: And I got into that through sort of being passionately 98 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 2: into creating myself. So you know, I started out as 99 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: a personal trainer. I didn't like that. I wanted to 100 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,360 Speaker 2: move towards something that I was more passionate about, which 101 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 2: was media, the creation of content. And I ended up 102 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,719 Speaker 2: working in radio for two years, hosting a breakfast radio show, 103 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:50,120 Speaker 2: which then led to creating video content, which then led 104 00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: to creating my own video production and podcast production business. 105 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: And so yeah, ankor In that has been always centered 106 00:05:58,120 --> 00:06:03,039 Speaker 2: around that personal creation and then helping other people do 107 00:06:03,160 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 2: that for them their brand. 108 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,960 Speaker 1: When you like, you've just been working on what is 109 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 1: for you and would be for anyone in your line. 110 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:15,760 Speaker 1: Quite a big project which we'll talk about. I'm not 111 00:06:15,800 --> 00:06:17,680 Speaker 1: sure how much we'll talk about it, but we'll talk 112 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,400 Speaker 1: about it at the end of it. When you do 113 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: something really good, I feel like for you, of course, 114 00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,119 Speaker 1: you've got to make money, pay the bills, you've got kids, 115 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: you've got a family, you've got responsibilities, all that normal 116 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 1: grown up stuff. So proud of you, but I feel 117 00:06:33,680 --> 00:06:37,320 Speaker 1: like you're more interested in how good it is than 118 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: how much it's going to make. 119 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, which I guess hopefully you can convert that to 120 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: making you some money and it also being how good 121 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,800 Speaker 2: is this? It can be both, yes, and I think 122 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 2: you should. It's hard because then it's just a hobby 123 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,039 Speaker 2: if you can't get it to convert into some kind 124 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:57,359 Speaker 2: of financial award. 125 00:06:58,200 --> 00:07:01,400 Speaker 1: But what about what about the eye around like and 126 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,400 Speaker 1: this is you know, I coach a lot of would 127 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 1: be speakers and people who are speakers and want to 128 00:07:08,560 --> 00:07:11,240 Speaker 1: be speakers, And I guess Tiff is in that. Tiff 129 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:15,120 Speaker 1: who works with me who you know, well, she's in that, 130 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:16,920 Speaker 1: and we're always you know, for the last few years 131 00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,360 Speaker 1: I've been coaching her in terms of opening the door 132 00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 1: to professional speaking and coaching and running groups and mentoring 133 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: and how that works. And we talk a lot about 134 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: the perception of value and the psychology of value. And 135 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: there was a time when you would make a video 136 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: for someone to promote their business, and you would charge X, 137 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:42,440 Speaker 1: and then a while later you would charge five X. 138 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:45,239 Speaker 1: And now these days, I don't know what you charge, 139 00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:51,000 Speaker 1: but maybe fifteen or twenty X, and which is understandable. 140 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: Like there was a time when I was doing talks 141 00:07:52,880 --> 00:07:56,760 Speaker 1: for fifty bucks, you know, and now it's up to 142 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: sixty bucks, so I'm killing. 143 00:07:58,480 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 2: It, you know. 144 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: But that that kind of evolution of not only your 145 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 1: own development and creative potential and you know, business acumen, 146 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: but being confident enough to charge people a lot to 147 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,960 Speaker 1: do something and when they could get someone in inverted 148 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: commas cheaper, how did you go with all of that? 149 00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such an evolution. You know, if you don't 150 00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:27,880 Speaker 2: believe it at the start, you're not going. As in, 151 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: if you don't believe you're worth more than what someone's 152 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,960 Speaker 2: willing to pay you, you're definitely not worth anymore. So 153 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 2: you are worth fifty bucks to talk. But I think, yeah, 154 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,960 Speaker 2: over time, the experience, you know, runs on the board 155 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:48,120 Speaker 2: confidence in your own abilities. Half the time, I think 156 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: creative industry and you know, these sort of self taught pursuits. 157 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 2: A lot of people are self taught now, photographers, videographers, 158 00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 2: you know, podcasters. There is that level of confidence in 159 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:05,360 Speaker 2: what you do that sort of comes over time, so 160 00:09:05,480 --> 00:09:08,280 Speaker 2: once you have done it for other people. But I 161 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,720 Speaker 2: don't know, maybe you probably know me in a perspective 162 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,800 Speaker 2: that I don't even know me seeing my level of 163 00:09:14,840 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 2: confidence in what I'm doing, which I don't think I 164 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:22,480 Speaker 2: did have that early days. But I had the ability 165 00:09:22,520 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 2: to push through that uncomfortable feeling of unsure and don't 166 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 2: know my worth to where to being able to charge 167 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:33,440 Speaker 2: today good money for what I do. 168 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think for me it's like seeing you from 169 00:09:38,679 --> 00:09:46,719 Speaker 1: the clumsy clearly talented and likable and charismatic and all 170 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: of those things which you were. But it's kind of 171 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: like reminds me of being at lots of sporting teams 172 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: that I've worked with, AFL clubs, VFL clubs, National level 173 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: Netball League clubs, where some somebody comes in and you're like, 174 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: are this girl or this guy? They've got good genetics. 175 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: They've got good genetics. They can run, fast, jump high, 176 00:10:07,880 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 1: they can catch, they can throw, they can kick, they 177 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 1: can handle, they've got good durance, they've got but they're 178 00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: a fair way away from being an elite player, you know, 179 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 1: And that's kind of where you were, Like you had 180 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: all the ingredients and all the potential and all the possibilities, 181 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,320 Speaker 1: But there are so many people that have that, but 182 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: they don't then do the required work to turn that 183 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,720 Speaker 1: potential into a real world thing that is now valuable, 184 00:10:41,840 --> 00:10:45,040 Speaker 1: that is now sought after, that is now in demand, 185 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 1: that is now at a very high level. Like I 186 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:54,640 Speaker 1: always had the potential to be a reasonably good corporate 187 00:10:54,679 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 1: slash professional speaker rights or whatever, but there was a 188 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: lot of time where I didn't have the experience, I 189 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:03,880 Speaker 1: didn't have the skill, I didn't have the confidence, I 190 00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: didn't have the knowledge. Like the potential was there, but 191 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: potential is really just the stepping off point. Like for me, 192 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:19,560 Speaker 1: you're especially in the last I reckon four years, it 193 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 1: seems like you've matured ten years. It's like you're a 194 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,360 Speaker 1: much more grown up. Like you were like a fucking 195 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,680 Speaker 1: twelve year old too, you're about thirty. 196 00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:32,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, go on, now I feel like an old 197 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 2: thirty six year old. 198 00:11:34,360 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 1: Yeah if you're like a fun twelve, but you were 199 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: like a big kid. I'm still like that big kid. 200 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,520 Speaker 1: Sometimes I still have to rain my shit in and 201 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: go all right, well, you know you're actually doing a 202 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: big gig and you're talking at the wherever. 203 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 2: You know, I want to always have like this huge 204 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 2: leap in what they do. So it's like you obviously 205 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: get runs on the board from doing the thing that 206 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,319 Speaker 2: you do and you slowly chip away. And maybe maybe 207 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:06,960 Speaker 2: not everyone actually has that progression when they are having 208 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:10,439 Speaker 2: just chipping away and having run the because things come 209 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 2: into play, like self esteem or self worth or just 210 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 2: not being able to view themselves in a way that 211 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 2: increases their value. So I get that that is also 212 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:24,679 Speaker 2: a reality, but I kind of always have just chipped away. 213 00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 2: So you know, the video projects or the podcast projects 214 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 2: I work on today are quite they feel much easier 215 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:36,680 Speaker 2: than they would have five years ago because my skill 216 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:41,360 Speaker 2: my skill level has caught up. And then the belief 217 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:43,480 Speaker 2: is sort of in myself and being able to do 218 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,800 Speaker 2: these kind of projects or work with big clients has 219 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 2: also strengthened. And so it's it can only happen over time. 220 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: It's unless you unless you have a big opportunity that 221 00:12:56,840 --> 00:13:00,079 Speaker 2: allows you to take a huge leap. And for me, 222 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,120 Speaker 2: it was like doing the radio thing. I'd never done 223 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:08,800 Speaker 2: any kind of real tangible project or you know, being 224 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 2: employed by somebody who was other than just making my 225 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 2: own content, which is a very low barrier. Anyone can 226 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:20,240 Speaker 2: do it. But then when you you know, quotation marks 227 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,400 Speaker 2: get picked by somebody and they say, we think you're 228 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:28,000 Speaker 2: good enough. I'm on board, like you know, that is 229 00:13:28,679 --> 00:13:31,960 Speaker 2: one way to sort of level up and feel really 230 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 2: sort of insecure about it, but then be able to say, oh, 231 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 2: they must think I'm good enough. They gave me a job, 232 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 2: and then and then, but then that was just that 233 00:13:41,240 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: job was you know, two years of every day doing 234 00:13:44,960 --> 00:13:47,120 Speaker 2: the thing, and so then you get just I got 235 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: the opportunity to be able to hone my skill in 236 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:55,559 Speaker 2: this area, which yeah, that that helps you then progress, 237 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 2: that's that that generates that momentum in your value. 238 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: I think also you don't realize because you're you, and 239 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: because you're with you every minute of every day, you 240 00:14:07,559 --> 00:14:12,040 Speaker 1: don't see your own progression because it's like if I 241 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,800 Speaker 1: don't see you for a while, like I don't think 242 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 1: you and I have sat down and had a coffee 243 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: for months, four or five months, maybe. 244 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: No, no, just before I left three it could be 245 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: three months, Jesus away for seven weeks, was it? 246 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:27,080 Speaker 1: I okay? But when I don't see you for an installment, 247 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,239 Speaker 1: like three months, four months, I noticed change. I noticed development, 248 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 1: but you wouldn't notice it because you're you, right. And 249 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: it's like the other day somebody was asking me about 250 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,320 Speaker 1: somebody wants to as does everyone start a podcast? And 251 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: they're like, can you give me a three minute workshop 252 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: on podcasting? And I just gave them literally that like 253 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:52,800 Speaker 1: pros cons, what to do, what not to do, what 254 00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: my thoughts, my peaks and trots, what I did well, 255 00:14:56,520 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: what I did terrible, blah blah blah blah, and I finished, 256 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:04,560 Speaker 1: and they're like, one, I never thought there was so 257 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: much to it, and two like, oh my god, you 258 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: know so much. And I'm like, I still feel clumsy 259 00:15:12,120 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: on a podcast at times. And then I think, well, 260 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: like when I think about all the stuff I did 261 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: with you before the new project, the stuff we did, 262 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: the stuff I did with Bianca and Francis, the stuff 263 00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 1: I did with the Australian Fitness podcast which was mine 264 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: that I gave to Russell, blah blah blah. I've done, 265 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:32,520 Speaker 1: you know, just in my own I've done over two 266 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: thousand shows, and then when you're all the other shows 267 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: I've been on or episodes, I would say at least 268 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: another five hundred, so that's two and I think, oh, yeah, 269 00:15:41,400 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: I'm probably good at this, or I'm probably I've got 270 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: some skill and some knowledge and some understanding of the 271 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 1: you know, the science for one of the better term, 272 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,920 Speaker 1: the science of it all. But you never I never 273 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: stop and think, shit, I'm good at this, and then 274 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 1: somebody points out that you're actually fucking good at it, 275 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 1: and you go, oh, am I here. 276 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:04,440 Speaker 2: Well, all the beauty of time allows you to then 277 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: have sort of that tangible evidence to pull on that yeah, 278 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,560 Speaker 2: I have done this. And so the project that I've 279 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 2: just been working on, a documentary traveling across America, where 280 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: I was hosting it with my mate Josh, who I 281 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,160 Speaker 2: had the Daily talk show with which you were on 282 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: many times, and we've both been on here. We hadn't 283 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:29,040 Speaker 2: been in front of camera together or doing anything podcast 284 00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 2: related in years, but not even thinking can we do 285 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 2: that or not, we just stepped into the project knowing 286 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,920 Speaker 2: and for me, I'm only talking for me here, but 287 00:16:39,960 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 2: I knew that we've done this so many times, thousands 288 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: we've been. You know, I've done thousands of episodes of 289 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 2: podcasts in my time, including the radio stuff. It's like, yes, yes, 290 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:56,120 Speaker 2: and so. But if that was fifteen years ago, I 291 00:16:56,160 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 2: would have been shitting myself, not knowing if I could 292 00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 2: do it. Do I have the skill set to be 293 00:17:02,160 --> 00:17:02,560 Speaker 2: able to. 294 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:06,480 Speaker 1: Do I want to talk about your docco in a moment, 295 00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 1: But I remember years ago, early early days of Harper's 296 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: and that's my gym's everyone and I got interviewed for 297 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,199 Speaker 1: a few things. I got interviewed on radio sporadically, like 298 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: four or five times a year, and I really enjoyed it. 299 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: I got interviewed for a few mags and for the 300 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: Herald Sun that I ended up writing for, and the 301 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,800 Speaker 1: radio stuff I really liked. And I thought, how do 302 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 1: I get into radio? Not that I want to be 303 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,600 Speaker 1: a radio person, but and then a friend of mine said, 304 00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 1: why don't you do some community radio? And I'm like, well, 305 00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:41,240 Speaker 1: I don't even know what that is. And basically, it's 306 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: it's it's it's a volunteer as you know exactly. It's 307 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: everything's the same except no one listens. So you know, 308 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:52,840 Speaker 1: you might have fifty or one hundred listeners and it's 309 00:17:52,840 --> 00:17:56,360 Speaker 1: not commercial and it's not paid, and there are they're 310 00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: not advertisers. 311 00:17:57,320 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 2: What are they called sponsors? 312 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:04,239 Speaker 1: Its sponsors, Thank you sponsors. And but I did I 313 00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: did four years of a show by myself that fucking 314 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: thirteen people listened to. But I got four years of training, 315 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: like literally playing music, taking calls, you know, time checks, 316 00:18:18,359 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: station id, weather checks, having conversations in and off of mic. 317 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:25,720 Speaker 1: But and so by the time I got to work 318 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,360 Speaker 1: at SCN, which was a few years later, I'd already 319 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: done hundreds of hours of radio without the pressure. So 320 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,120 Speaker 1: so not all of it, but a lot of the development, 321 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: the learning, the fuck ups, the understanding, you know that 322 00:18:43,359 --> 00:18:47,359 Speaker 1: the miles on the clock, I'd already got under my 323 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 1: belt before I sat down in a proper studio where 324 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:54,679 Speaker 1: it really fucking matters, you know. So I'd played one 325 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:57,760 Speaker 1: hundred games before I played my first game, so to speak. 326 00:18:58,000 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and there not everyone's willing to do that though, 327 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:08,880 Speaker 2: as in putting the time without any reward, and so yeah, 328 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,880 Speaker 2: that's the trouble. That's a challenge with people who want 329 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 2: to get into doing podcasting nowadays is there's would they 330 00:19:16,520 --> 00:19:18,720 Speaker 2: do it if someone said, Okay, here's money for you 331 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,800 Speaker 2: to show up and do this thing. But that's why, really, 332 00:19:22,840 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: I think that's why there are so many great standout ones, 333 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 2: because it's all off the back of someone having so 334 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:32,879 Speaker 2: that real drive to do it themselves. 335 00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: I think also, you know, the willingness to do something 336 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:38,960 Speaker 1: that you know you're not going to be good at 337 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:42,960 Speaker 1: initially and being okay with that and recognizing that the 338 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 1: only way I get good at podcasting is by podcasting, 339 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: just like I can't get good at running by not running. Yeah, 340 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: I can't get strong without lifting, you know. And so 341 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:56,440 Speaker 1: you go, all right, well, I'm going to start a 342 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:59,719 Speaker 1: podcast and there's probably going to be somewhere between one 343 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: and five people listening, and it's every chance it's going 344 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,360 Speaker 1: to be shit. Yeah, and it might be shitited somewhere 345 00:20:06,359 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 1: between shits and average for a long time. But the 346 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:11,160 Speaker 1: only way I can get through the shit an average 347 00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:15,160 Speaker 1: phase is to do that. You know, This is how 348 00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: I get good is by acknowledging and being bad or 349 00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 1: not skilled or not competent at the start and then 350 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:27,120 Speaker 1: doing the work to get good. But people don't want 351 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: that painful start. 352 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:32,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's painful, I get it. 353 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:38,160 Speaker 1: What's the average number of episodes that podcasters do, isn't 354 00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:43,320 Speaker 1: It isn't the average podcast loves last seven or something episodes? 355 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, seven or eleven? I think the number. Maybe it's 356 00:20:47,119 --> 00:20:49,560 Speaker 2: because I like seven eleven as a shop. That may 357 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:50,480 Speaker 2: be just coming to mind. 358 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,960 Speaker 1: I do remember, we'll talk about your doco in a minute. 359 00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:56,280 Speaker 1: And I know you don't have too much time. Do 360 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,399 Speaker 1: you have tool? It's twelve twenty one. Now have you 361 00:20:58,440 --> 00:20:59,959 Speaker 1: got to forty five or no? 362 00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, So. 363 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: I remember you did tell us there's so many cool 364 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,280 Speaker 1: things that you've done over the years that our listeners 365 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,639 Speaker 1: would know of. But remember you did the coffee the 366 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:14,840 Speaker 1: blind coffee test where I think that was you where 367 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,760 Speaker 1: you've got a seven eleven coffee and actual some Barista 368 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:22,680 Speaker 1: made coffees, like some five six dollar coffees and one 369 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 1: dollar coffees. 370 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 2: Or seven eleven coffees mainstream. Now, if you're not drinking it, 371 00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,760 Speaker 2: what are you doing? It's no, but it's seen now 372 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:34,359 Speaker 2: as like it's just a part of you know, everyone. 373 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 2: If you're running late or just need a quick hit, 374 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:39,560 Speaker 2: you go to seven eleven. This is not a sponsorship deal, 375 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,360 Speaker 2: But I've been drinking seven eleven coffees from day one, 376 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 2: And my point was in this test was that when 377 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 2: it's a long black, Sure, there are some cafes that 378 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:54,399 Speaker 2: do like an exceptional tasting long black that do stand 379 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 2: out amongst other long blacks, But when you are just 380 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,359 Speaker 2: having black coffee, can you really tell the difference between 381 00:22:01,359 --> 00:22:03,720 Speaker 2: something that's just shot out of a machine for a 382 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:08,600 Speaker 2: dollar inflation now two bucks? Can you tell the difference 383 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 2: between that and a barista made coffee? But that was 384 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:15,199 Speaker 2: on the that was on the podcast with Pete Sheppard. 385 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 2: I got him to taste test the barista coffee from 386 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 2: the cafe downstairs of the studio and the seven to 387 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 2: eleven coffee that I ran and got, and he chose 388 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 2: the seven eleven coffee as the tasty one, which really, 389 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 2: which is yeah, I mean, it's it's that is hard, 390 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,480 Speaker 2: but yeah, that's it. I think it just shows that 391 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 2: it really is just. 392 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: I mean, taste is taste is subjective, of course, But 393 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,040 Speaker 1: every like most days, I train at four and then 394 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 1: on my way home at five point fifteen, there's a 395 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: seven eleven fifty meters from the gym, which you know, 396 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 1: and most days, especially if I've got to work, especially 397 00:22:55,359 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: if I've got a six pm podcast, especially if I 398 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,840 Speaker 1: need to be a little bit of a stim on board. 399 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:05,600 Speaker 1: I get a seven eleven coffee and I have a 400 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,920 Speaker 1: fancy coffee every morning at the Hampton's and it's good. 401 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 1: And I don't know if the seven eleven is as good, 402 00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 1: but to me, it's very much in the It's not 403 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,919 Speaker 1: like I'm drinking, you know, ness cafe out of a 404 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:21,880 Speaker 1: jar from the pantry. It's to me, it's it does 405 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:22,640 Speaker 1: the same job. 406 00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: Which one do you pick? Which coffee? 407 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:29,840 Speaker 1: Which coffee? I have a medium which is three bucks now, 408 00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: and I have a skinny flat white, which is it's 409 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: a double shot. 410 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,000 Speaker 2: I think, Okay, I like, what do you do? I've 411 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,680 Speaker 2: gone the piccolo now some of the machines are they're 412 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,159 Speaker 2: you know, they've upgraded. 413 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 1: I didn't even know you could do a pick. So 414 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,239 Speaker 1: piccolo is like just a small amount of water and 415 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: a single or a double shot. 416 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 2: So it's just a shot of coffee and a little 417 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,639 Speaker 2: bit of milk. So it's like the cup it becomes 418 00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 2: half full, so it's just like a taste stronger, so. 419 00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: It's like half the milk but the same cough caffeine. 420 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:05,400 Speaker 2: Yes, do you remember when I did that video going 421 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 2: down the rabbit hole of seven to eleven, the where 422 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 2: I worked out that a large would fit into a medium. Yeah, 423 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 2: all right, it was a bit of an expose or 424 00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 2: as a medium fits into a small, and so there 425 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,360 Speaker 2: was just something there which, in fairness, I can't even 426 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:29,919 Speaker 2: remember what I did, but I'd worked out that one 427 00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 2: of the bigger cups fits into a smaller cup and 428 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,720 Speaker 2: it's like the same amount of coffee, so you're basically 429 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:40,720 Speaker 2: better off just getting the small. But then I was 430 00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:44,000 Speaker 2: on the project talking about that just being an absolute 431 00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 2: scally wag. But I looked into like where the coffee 432 00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 2: was roasted, found out it was out like out past 433 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: Alfington area. So I went out to the plate like 434 00:24:55,520 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 2: just the Yeah, it was a real time in a 435 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,200 Speaker 2: moment in time when that was just sort of coming 436 00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:04,560 Speaker 2: becoming mainstream. 437 00:25:04,680 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: Well, I mean it's it's still ground coffee beans, right, 438 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: it's And it's like the thing about seven eleven, like 439 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: it or not, is that it's consistent, Like there's zero 440 00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,959 Speaker 1: variation in my coffee. I know exactly what it's going 441 00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,560 Speaker 1: to taste like, exactly how hot it'll be and exactly 442 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: how full the cup's going to be, no matter where 443 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,320 Speaker 1: I get it from or when it's exactly the same. 444 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:28,920 Speaker 1: Every time. 445 00:25:29,440 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 2: I paid six dollars yesterday in Brighton for a piccolo 446 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 2: coffee and that's suck. I could not believe it. And 447 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 2: at that point, like you just it was. I was 448 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,359 Speaker 2: having a meeting. I was like, oh, but I still 449 00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 2: got it. But it really annoyed me that I had 450 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 2: to pay six dollars for something that's a dollar fifty 451 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 2: and it definitely wasn't any better than a piccolo from 452 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:53,840 Speaker 2: seven to eleven. 453 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,280 Speaker 1: I'm going to get in trouble for saying this, but 454 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 1: fuck it. Live on the edge, jumbo. Have you been 455 00:25:59,680 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 1: to Ing? 456 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:01,159 Speaker 2: Yes? 457 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,000 Speaker 1: Have you had coffee in England? 458 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 2: I was twenty eleven. Was it was trash when I 459 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,200 Speaker 2: was there, But I. 460 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: Was there about six years ago. I guess I did 461 00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,520 Speaker 1: some work there and I've been there a few times. 462 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 1: But last time I was there, the coffee was like 463 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:24,160 Speaker 1: four pounds, so like eight bucks, and it was it 464 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: was lukewarm, it was weak, it was fucking terrible. 465 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 2: Well, I think the coffee around the world I think 466 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 2: has got better. There has been this time. So I 467 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:39,840 Speaker 2: was in America for seven weeks recently, and America is 468 00:26:39,880 --> 00:26:44,000 Speaker 2: always slammed for having shitty coffee. Well they do it differently. 469 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 2: It's all the just percolated, just coffee on black coffee. 470 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,400 Speaker 2: It's like closer to something like tea. You can drink 471 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,120 Speaker 2: like four cups of it without your head blowing up. 472 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,679 Speaker 2: Versus if you had four long blacks in Australia in 473 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:00,320 Speaker 2: a row, you'd be ye, you'd have a. 474 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: You'd have chest pain. 475 00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, and so but across across America the coffee 476 00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,439 Speaker 2: is so much better now, and so there is I 477 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:13,359 Speaker 2: think there has been a catch up in the last 478 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 2: ten yeah, ten years. 479 00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, tell us about whatever you can. So 480 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,240 Speaker 1: you just got back from the States. You were doing 481 00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:26,280 Speaker 1: a doco, correct what I get wrong? But you were 482 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:30,560 Speaker 1: making a doco for someone else, your production company, but 483 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,679 Speaker 1: someone was paying you to be there, so you weren't 484 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,359 Speaker 1: funding it. You were doing it for someone else with 485 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:42,679 Speaker 1: a view to potentially this being streamed on a big 486 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,720 Speaker 1: platform internationally. Is that right? 487 00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, to create anything, there's no linear path these days. 488 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 2: Back in the day, you know, you'd get picked by 489 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 2: a network or you know, you'd have an agent, and 490 00:27:55,600 --> 00:28:00,400 Speaker 2: then you'd someone's creating something and it's usually a work 491 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 2: that are funding it and then so there's you know, 492 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,280 Speaker 2: lots of sort of red tape and then the thing 493 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:10,399 Speaker 2: gets created and distributed. Now you can there's a million 494 00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 2: ways to fund something. You can create it, you know bootstrapped, 495 00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,199 Speaker 2: you know, just with your time and then hopefully it 496 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,120 Speaker 2: gets picked up. So a lot of documentaries come out 497 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 2: that way or a network, you know, the old traditional path, 498 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,439 Speaker 2: or private equity, which is what we had funding a 499 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 2: film that will then go on to a streaming platform. 500 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 2: So you then sell it onto a streaming platform. So 501 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,360 Speaker 2: that's just the way we got to this project. But yeah, 502 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 2: seven of us went to America to you know, seven 503 00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:45,120 Speaker 2: Ossie Ossies went over to America and we spent a 504 00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 2: month driving across the country learning about gun culture within 505 00:28:51,000 --> 00:28:54,320 Speaker 2: America through the lens of Australians. You know, it's very 506 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: different in this country. I mean, have you ever seen 507 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 2: have you ever seen a gun? I mean, you've got 508 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,400 Speaker 2: a shady pass, but have you ever seen like a 509 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,400 Speaker 2: gun with a criminal or something like that isn't on 510 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,200 Speaker 2: the hip of a police officer in your time? Have 511 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:09,560 Speaker 2: you seen? 512 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,360 Speaker 1: Have you only when I'm in the States, so I mean, 513 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: but well, no, that's not true. I mean I grew up. 514 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 1: I've shot guns, you know, because I grew up in 515 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:21,960 Speaker 1: the country. But back in the day, when you know, 516 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 1: you would you would go, you know, rabbiting and all 517 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,840 Speaker 1: of that hunting. And I don't do it anymore. Everyone 518 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:30,800 Speaker 1: don't get mad at me. But back in the day. 519 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:32,440 Speaker 1: But that was a very long time ago, Like that 520 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,440 Speaker 1: was forty forty five years ago. That was pre port 521 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: Arthur and all of those things. And it was it 522 00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:44,240 Speaker 1: was less of a you know, like a talking point 523 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: like it wasn't but generally you know, no, no, but 524 00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,920 Speaker 1: in America. Yeah, like I've been in Texas and Mississippi 525 00:29:51,960 --> 00:29:55,560 Speaker 1: and Louisiana, and like Texas is open carry as you 526 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: know better than me, I'm sure, but but yeah, it's 527 00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: it's so, how was it? How was the trip? Yeah? 528 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 2: Unbelievable. So, I mean it was just the fact of 529 00:30:07,440 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 2: having sort of a like that small team. It's quite 530 00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,760 Speaker 2: a big team, but it's a small in the scale 531 00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 2: of documentaries or Hollywood fild or anything. But yeah, so 532 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:20,400 Speaker 2: we started in. 533 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,479 Speaker 1: So just tell us what the seven were. So you 534 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:27,120 Speaker 1: and Joshua John camera, but it also as a creatives 535 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 1: and producers and. 536 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,479 Speaker 2: Yeah, we had two producers with us two camera guys, 537 00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,640 Speaker 2: a dop and an assistant cinematographer, and then we had 538 00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 2: a soundo who was managing all the microphones and labs. 539 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 2: And so we started the trip in Los Angeles and 540 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 2: we had this massive Ram twenty five hundred. We wanted 541 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 2: to sort of lean into that American experience of having 542 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,880 Speaker 2: a big truck and you blend in quite well because 543 00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 2: everyone else has got them, and so. 544 00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: We got that's a great for my listeners, that's a great, gigantic, 545 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,480 Speaker 1: big ut Yeah. 546 00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 2: I mean it's a pickup truck. It's it can bloody 547 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:14,760 Speaker 2: transport a crane if you had to like this thing. 548 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 2: We because the challenge with getting any kind of higher 549 00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,200 Speaker 2: car is you know how they say it's going to 550 00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:26,080 Speaker 2: be a Subaru or similar, and so we picked the 551 00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:30,560 Speaker 2: biggest cars that would be like an f f F 552 00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 2: fifteen hundred, F one fifty sorry or similar, and somehow 553 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,440 Speaker 2: we lucked out. We got a Ram twenty five hundred. 554 00:31:37,520 --> 00:31:41,000 Speaker 2: This thing is I'm six foot two, it's it's you know, 555 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 2: standing at seven foot at the cabin. It's ginormous. And 556 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 2: so we were so pumped that we got to have 557 00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: this thing for the full four weeks of driving and 558 00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:57,920 Speaker 2: where it was next level. So we started in Los Angeles. 559 00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 2: In prior to going, we we had a bunch of 560 00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:04,000 Speaker 2: sort of destinations or people we wanted to speak to, 561 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:05,680 Speaker 2: and then we spent a couple of weeks in Los 562 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,360 Speaker 2: Angeles working out who we could talk to, connecting up 563 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: with people, and planning probably two weeks ahead on the 564 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,880 Speaker 2: road trip. So yeah, we got, you know, as sort 565 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 2: of bright eyed Aussie guys trying to understand what the 566 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,720 Speaker 2: gun cultures like. It's you're already thrust into it. Even 567 00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,240 Speaker 2: in some way like Los Angeles that's very liberal and 568 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:34,000 Speaker 2: you know it's I guess, very strict on guns, but 569 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,480 Speaker 2: in respect to the other parts of the world, it's 570 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 2: very you know, las in comparison. So you still can 571 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 2: own a handgun, you still can own an ar fifth day, 572 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,120 Speaker 2: and there's you know, still so many of these things 573 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:51,800 Speaker 2: that to us is so foreign. And so within California 574 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:54,800 Speaker 2: before we even left, we'd met someone who had been 575 00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:58,120 Speaker 2: shot at a mass shooting, one of the biggest mass 576 00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:03,000 Speaker 2: shootings in American history. We did a Hollywood experience where 577 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,320 Speaker 2: I got shot with this blood exploding out the back, 578 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:11,440 Speaker 2: you know, like a Hollywood scene that we did and 579 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:20,360 Speaker 2: then and then yeah, we moved on to Vegas, Utah, Colorado, Texas, Louisiana, Chicago, 580 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 2: like and so we worked our way across the country. 581 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:27,840 Speaker 2: But it's a very eye opening coming from this country 582 00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 2: and just. 583 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: Did you I bet you met like did you meet 584 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:37,040 Speaker 1: any meet any characters where you're like, how does this 585 00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,640 Speaker 1: person even exist? Like is like this guy's like something 586 00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: from a film? 587 00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:46,240 Speaker 2: It is. The thing about America is there's so many 588 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:50,520 Speaker 2: of those types of people, and they absolutely love talking 589 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:54,320 Speaker 2: about what they're into. And so the fact that we 590 00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 2: were Rossie's, the fact that it was about guns, the 591 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,520 Speaker 2: Second Amendment and the culture that exists in America around 592 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 2: guns just meant that we were sort of drawn to 593 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:08,759 Speaker 2: these people. But the reality is, I think people could 594 00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:11,680 Speaker 2: watch the documentary and think that we've you know, picked 595 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 2: out only the people that said that they had a 596 00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:19,400 Speaker 2: gun or said that they had a story, But genuinely, 597 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 2: it was all the people we spoke to. There really 598 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 2: wasn't many people that didn't have an experience around guns, 599 00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 2: didn't have a thought on it, a belief about it, 600 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:31,319 Speaker 2: or you know, had had a story from growing up 601 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,920 Speaker 2: and so you know, We went to New Orleans and 602 00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:38,800 Speaker 2: we spoke to three people. They all had a story. 603 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 2: One guy had a gun in his bag, pulls out 604 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 2: his handgun just in the main street, just unloads it. Yeah, 605 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:48,280 Speaker 2: give it here it is holding it. You know. We 606 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 2: what was there? 607 00:34:49,840 --> 00:34:52,920 Speaker 1: Sorry? What was their attitude around you? Because it's not 608 00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 1: like most Americans will never meet, especially a Tommy Jacket, 609 00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,160 Speaker 1: They're never going to meet seven Australians just on the 610 00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:05,520 Speaker 1: other side of the world doing that. Were they receptive? 611 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:11,080 Speaker 2: Oh so receptive? So we discovered, you know that we 612 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 2: just from a timing perspective, we had all of our 613 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 2: dates were moving about because we hadn't started the trip yet, 614 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 2: and it just so happened. We'd booked our accommodation in 615 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,600 Speaker 2: Las Vegas, and we'd planned to sort of have our 616 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 2: first experience shooting a gun as Australians in America. In 617 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 2: someway like Las Vegas, there's a machine gun experiences. It's 618 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,839 Speaker 2: like a gun tourism within that state of Nevada, and 619 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,200 Speaker 2: it just so happened we had the date booked at 620 00:35:41,239 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 2: a machine gun experience was the same date of the 621 00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,080 Speaker 2: biggest mass shooting in American history, which was the Route 622 00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,520 Speaker 2: ninety one country music festival where yeah, there was fifty 623 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:58,279 Speaker 2: something people killed by a guy who was up in 624 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 2: a hotel room shooting down the crowd. 625 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: I remember that. I remember that. 626 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:07,319 Speaker 2: And I found a woman online who lived in California, 627 00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:09,560 Speaker 2: but she was there and she was shot three times 628 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 2: in the face, in the back, in the arm, and 629 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,120 Speaker 2: she was a mother of two. And I connected with 630 00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 2: her and told her who we are, what we're doing, 631 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,680 Speaker 2: what we'd planned on doing, and how it's you know, 632 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,040 Speaker 2: our plans were changing based on understanding this, and we 633 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:28,480 Speaker 2: wanted to understand her story. And yeah, she just so 634 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:30,600 Speaker 2: she wrote back to me straight away and she was 635 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,360 Speaker 2: so open and we went and had the producer and 636 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:37,640 Speaker 2: I went and had coffee with her in California, and 637 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:40,160 Speaker 2: that before we even started filming with her. But just 638 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:41,960 Speaker 2: she just wanted to meet us and make sure that 639 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:46,280 Speaker 2: we were legit. And she was the most beautiful person, 640 00:36:46,760 --> 00:36:50,320 Speaker 2: just and ended up having a perspective that I didn't 641 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,439 Speaker 2: think one would have after being involved in something like that. 642 00:36:54,719 --> 00:36:58,759 Speaker 2: So as Australian, you'd think she'd be anti gun, she 643 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 2: would be very much against it, and that wasn't her situation. 644 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,240 Speaker 2: She you know, grew up with guns in her family, 645 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 2: police officers. She understood, she knows how to use guns, 646 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,799 Speaker 2: but she she doesn't. She understands people's rights and you know, 647 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:19,440 Speaker 2: beliefs around own gun ownership, which is obviously tied to 648 00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 2: the Second Amendment, the right to bear arms. And so yeah, 649 00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,480 Speaker 2: she she you know, gave us this perspective that once 650 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:29,239 Speaker 2: she was shot, she felt like she was asked, oh, 651 00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:33,320 Speaker 2: you're going to be that the now face of anti 652 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:35,440 Speaker 2: gun you know, you're going to be coming to the rallies. 653 00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:37,520 Speaker 2: And she want nothing to do with that, you know. 654 00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 2: And so this is the nuance of the gun conversation 655 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:46,480 Speaker 2: in America is going in and as Australian with a 656 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:51,480 Speaker 2: perspective that we have just from the reality of what 657 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,160 Speaker 2: we face here or don't face because it's not something 658 00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 2: that's on our mind. It just sort of opened the 659 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,320 Speaker 2: door to so many of those perspectives that were surprising 660 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:02,719 Speaker 2: to us. 661 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:07,359 Speaker 1: Is there one thing and I mean, obviously we've all 662 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 1: got our own I guess probably a lot of our 663 00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: listeners don't really think too much about guns, although some may. 664 00:38:14,360 --> 00:38:18,880 Speaker 1: But what might we as Aussies find surprising, Like what 665 00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,080 Speaker 1: you just said, that's surprising, But in terms of what 666 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:26,319 Speaker 1: you saw or what you became aware of or experienced, 667 00:38:26,360 --> 00:38:29,680 Speaker 1: what would the average Australian find quite surprising in terms 668 00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:30,319 Speaker 1: of what you know? 669 00:38:30,520 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 2: Now, Yeah, I mean from my experience speaking to people, 670 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:39,479 Speaker 2: they're more on the side, not even on the side, 671 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:44,560 Speaker 2: they're more in the middle that they understand the rights. 672 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:50,879 Speaker 2: Americans have their belief on freedom and there's more people 673 00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,440 Speaker 2: that see eye to eye on the subject. You know, 674 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:56,640 Speaker 2: a lot of gun owners don't agree with any of 675 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:59,040 Speaker 2: this pain that's been caused by them, and it's a 676 00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:04,760 Speaker 2: very small minority that are actually doing those heinous things. 677 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:08,200 Speaker 2: But I mean, once you start understanding some of the statistics, 678 00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:13,600 Speaker 2: like suicide from firearm is one of the biggest causes 679 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,440 Speaker 2: of death from firearms, so it's sixty percent makes up 680 00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 2: almost sixty percent of the gun deaths each year come 681 00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:23,640 Speaker 2: from suicide. And so it's interesting when you hear about 682 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 2: some of these statistics, how you understand the media portrays 683 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:32,920 Speaker 2: things in a certain way. And that's not to reduce 684 00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 2: the reality of mass shootings, school shootings, but they are 685 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:44,359 Speaker 2: such a small minority, small number within the number of 686 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:49,399 Speaker 2: these deaths per year. But obviously it's so triggering, and 687 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:52,400 Speaker 2: you know, there's within the documentary we're at a school 688 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,839 Speaker 2: learning about a whiteboard on a wall that folds out 689 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:59,359 Speaker 2: into a safe room for kids. And I've got kids. 690 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,040 Speaker 2: I'm crying the doco talking to this guy trying to 691 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,920 Speaker 2: understand this. And so we learned about this firsthand. You know, 692 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 2: this thistle room that can hold up to sixty elementary 693 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 2: school children. It's just heartbreaking, and so you know this 694 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:20,880 Speaker 2: there is the stark reality of what can happen with them, 695 00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:22,440 Speaker 2: and then you sort of you know, so it's it 696 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,040 Speaker 2: is very nuanced, and this is what we're putting forward. 697 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:30,200 Speaker 2: It's not a hit piece on America. It's not pro gun, 698 00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,160 Speaker 2: anti gun. We're trying to sort of tell this story, 699 00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,000 Speaker 2: one that the media doesn't communicate and one that is 700 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,759 Speaker 2: very much the people being able to share their beliefs, 701 00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,560 Speaker 2: their experience as Americans. 702 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,080 Speaker 1: Do you know who Tim Kennedy is? Yeah? You do, 703 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 1: don't you? 704 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:48,360 Speaker 2: Yeah? 705 00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, So Tim Kennedy, for those who don't know, is 706 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:56,759 Speaker 1: an ex soldier, Special Forces Soldier, UFC fighter, you know, 707 00:40:57,440 --> 00:41:00,120 Speaker 1: fill in the blank, imny things. But I heard somebody 708 00:41:01,239 --> 00:41:03,480 Speaker 1: I can't remember who it was, but the context of 709 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:06,799 Speaker 1: the conversation was they were talking about banning guns and 710 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:08,839 Speaker 1: getting guns out of hands and all of that, and 711 00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,920 Speaker 1: he teaches people how to shoot and he's a you know, 712 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:16,960 Speaker 1: sniper and all of that stuff, and was he essentially said, yeah, 713 00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,680 Speaker 1: the problem with that is that the bad guys are 714 00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,600 Speaker 1: not handing their guns in. You know. That's the thing is, 715 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 1: like even if you say like it feels like to 716 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:29,880 Speaker 1: me in America, like if you could remove all guns, 717 00:41:30,280 --> 00:41:33,839 Speaker 1: if there was zero guns in America, then there could 718 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:37,279 Speaker 1: be zero deaths by gun, right, But you can't do that, 719 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,000 Speaker 1: Like it's past the point of no return, it seems, 720 00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:43,560 Speaker 1: because even if they went right, it's illegal to have 721 00:41:43,640 --> 00:41:47,520 Speaker 1: a gun. Well as if the bad guys in inverted 722 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,440 Speaker 1: commas are going to be given their guns, So what 723 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:52,720 Speaker 1: then you're doing is you're keeping all the bad guys 724 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:55,880 Speaker 1: armed and all the people, all the civilians who aren't 725 00:41:55,920 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: bad guys, and they now can't protect themselves. And I'm 726 00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:01,360 Speaker 1: with you. I'm deaf, not not pro gun, and i 727 00:42:01,400 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 1: know people are going to go well, if there were 728 00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:05,719 Speaker 1: no fucking guns, there'd be I get it, I get it. 729 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: I'm with you. And in an ideal world that we 730 00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: do not live in there would be zero guns. But 731 00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:14,680 Speaker 1: that's not the world we live in. But Australia has 732 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,160 Speaker 1: done a good job though, I mean, I mean. 733 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 2: If that's so, the reality is that I get to 734 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,040 Speaker 2: come home and live in a place like this. But 735 00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,080 Speaker 2: when you when you go over there and you realize, okay, 736 00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:34,120 Speaker 2: there's they're never going away, and you start to understand 737 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,120 Speaker 2: the belief system of a lot of Americans. You know, 738 00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:40,279 Speaker 2: kids are brought up understanding the Second Amendment, how the 739 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,000 Speaker 2: country was founded, what firearms mean to you know, the 740 00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:49,239 Speaker 2: history of America. It makes more sense of where they 741 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:54,000 Speaker 2: are at today. When you try and place the Australian 742 00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:59,800 Speaker 2: lens on America's challenge or situation, it just it doesn't work. 743 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:02,560 Speaker 2: And so that's where my mind before going over there, 744 00:43:03,480 --> 00:43:06,000 Speaker 2: I was, you know, very much of that understanding, just 745 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 2: because I was coming from this place where you don't 746 00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,399 Speaker 2: ever see guns. I mean sometimes, yeah, sure there are 747 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,120 Speaker 2: guns in this country. There's probably more than you think, 748 00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:18,600 Speaker 2: but it's really not like to own one in this country, 749 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:21,839 Speaker 2: you need a license, it's registered, the cops know where 750 00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:24,680 Speaker 2: it's registered too. Like that's not the reality in America. 751 00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,719 Speaker 2: So it, yeah, it's very confusing to Australians and so 752 00:43:29,719 --> 00:43:35,400 Speaker 2: hopefully the documentary allows people to have a greater insight 753 00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,040 Speaker 2: into what it means to Americans. 754 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:41,879 Speaker 1: We're gonna let you go soon, just quickly. I've got 755 00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:46,200 Speaker 1: a couple of practical questions. So give or take? How 756 00:43:46,280 --> 00:43:49,200 Speaker 1: much footage did you shoot? How many hours of film 757 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:50,840 Speaker 1: do you have from that trip? 758 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:54,760 Speaker 2: Do you reckon over one hundred hours? Over one hundred 759 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:55,359 Speaker 2: hours for sure? 760 00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,440 Speaker 1: So out of that over one hundred hours of film 761 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:05,960 Speaker 1: that's got to be condensed into what length? Ninety Yeah, 762 00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:10,719 Speaker 1: so you've got to give or take give or take 763 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,640 Speaker 1: ninety nine percent of what you filmed you won't use. 764 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:17,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you do? 765 00:44:17,920 --> 00:44:21,880 Speaker 1: You just look at I'm going to give you two options, 766 00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: and you tell me if one of these is right 767 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,360 Speaker 1: or there's a third option. But to me, it seems 768 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:29,279 Speaker 1: like option A. We filmed all this, let's get all 769 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,120 Speaker 1: the amazing shit that we like, the this bit was amazing. 770 00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,680 Speaker 1: This has got to be in. That lady was incredible, 771 00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,120 Speaker 1: she's got to be in and then you fit a 772 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:41,680 Speaker 1: narrative around that, or do you have a narrative and 773 00:44:41,719 --> 00:44:45,319 Speaker 1: then just pick and choose the film you know, like 774 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:48,960 Speaker 1: without I don't mean like trying to be disingenuous, But 775 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,080 Speaker 1: how on earth do you figure out the storyline and 776 00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: what will be in and what won't be in. 777 00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:57,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there was a plan before we went away, 778 00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 2: and then there's the plan that sort of had opening 779 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:05,200 Speaker 2: along the way with the director's vision, and then you 780 00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,480 Speaker 2: start to see that come together in an edit, and 781 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 2: then that's where you can start shifting at a bunch 782 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,440 Speaker 2: so you can see what actually works. So there's the 783 00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:16,280 Speaker 2: theoretical version of it, and then there's bring it together 784 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:21,240 Speaker 2: and seeing what's really strong, what isn't, what's a motive? 785 00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,040 Speaker 2: You know, how you're balancing it out so it's not 786 00:45:25,120 --> 00:45:28,640 Speaker 2: feeling like it's one side or the other. And so yeah, 787 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:32,920 Speaker 2: it is a it's an absolute puzzle that you're trying 788 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:38,360 Speaker 2: to work to and amplify the bits, you know, just 789 00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,239 Speaker 2: amplify the story through different bits. But you start to 790 00:45:41,239 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 2: see what sort of comes out from the themes, you know, 791 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,520 Speaker 2: what the big question is that's being answered. All these 792 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,840 Speaker 2: kind of things start to come out within the process. 793 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,640 Speaker 2: But it's like anything, it is a process, and it 794 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:57,759 Speaker 2: is there are challenging bits. 795 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,640 Speaker 1: And I guess, yes, like I'm even thinking down to 796 00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: smaller than that, I bet you've already thought about what's 797 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,920 Speaker 1: going to be in the trailer or the trailers, because 798 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:12,400 Speaker 1: apart from the fact that you want to do it 799 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:15,080 Speaker 1: with integrity and you want to do something creative and 800 00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:19,680 Speaker 1: insightful and real, you also want to get bums on seats. 801 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: You also want to be back to our discussion earlier 802 00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:28,920 Speaker 1: about Korea. You also want to produce something that's commercially successful, right, Yeah, 803 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:32,800 Speaker 1: So it's trying to bring all those elements together. Yeah. 804 00:46:32,960 --> 00:46:37,879 Speaker 2: I mean, I think the old school approach to these 805 00:46:37,960 --> 00:46:39,920 Speaker 2: kind of things, there would be a lot that you'd 806 00:46:39,960 --> 00:46:44,160 Speaker 2: never see the light, that would never see the light. 807 00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,560 Speaker 2: So I think, I don't know. Hopefully, at the end, 808 00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,719 Speaker 2: you know, say gets onto one of the big streaming platforms, 809 00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:52,200 Speaker 2: there is a way that you can utilize a lot 810 00:46:52,239 --> 00:46:55,480 Speaker 2: of the content that we did actually film. Think about 811 00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 2: gaining extra access by some kind of premium access to 812 00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:04,719 Speaker 2: a documentary like think about all the docos you love, 813 00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,040 Speaker 2: Think about how long the interviews would have been and 814 00:47:08,080 --> 00:47:09,960 Speaker 2: how good it would have been to listen to the 815 00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,520 Speaker 2: whole interview, and so that would be amazing. That's what 816 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:19,920 Speaker 2: I think. As content like this evolves and streaming platforms. 817 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,759 Speaker 2: Hopefully people can sort of pay a premium to get 818 00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:27,680 Speaker 2: deeper into the stuff that never went to air because 819 00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:29,399 Speaker 2: there's a lot. There will be so much out there 820 00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:31,840 Speaker 2: in great docos. 821 00:47:32,160 --> 00:47:35,640 Speaker 1: Mate, you're a gun, You're an inspiration. The student has 822 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:38,480 Speaker 1: become the teacher. Look at you to fucking grown up, 823 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,279 Speaker 1: So proud of you. How do people I don't even know? 824 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,120 Speaker 1: Do you want people to find you and connect with 825 00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: you these days? Do we still do that? Do you 826 00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:47,160 Speaker 1: still do that? 827 00:47:47,840 --> 00:47:51,080 Speaker 2: Well? You can follow me on Instagram then maybe you'll 828 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:55,520 Speaker 2: see when the doco comes out. Tommy Jackett that's my 829 00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,279 Speaker 2: handle t J. 830 00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:02,000 Speaker 1: Right mate, we'll say goodbye affair, but thanks for having 831 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:03,560 Speaker 1: the chat. It's been nice to catch up. When are 832 00:48:03,600 --> 00:48:05,200 Speaker 1: we Are we going to see each other in in 833 00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:06,480 Speaker 1: the three D version soon? 834 00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:07,719 Speaker 2: Yeah? Mate? Next week? 835 00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:10,719 Speaker 1: Ah love your love you