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Speaker 1: Apogee Production.

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Speaker 2: Did things get better as you got older with people

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Speaker 2: in school? Did they come to terms of it or

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Speaker 2: did you think it got harder?

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Speaker 1: Things got better in college definitely, because I learned this

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Speaker 1: thing of embracing who you are, like be like, you know,

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Speaker 1: embracing my personality. Although I didn't accept the left hand

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Speaker 1: side of my face.

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Speaker 3: I so you're still you're still not accepting it.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, I didn't learn to accept the left

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Speaker 1: hand side of my face until.

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Speaker 4: I met my wife. Wow, that's the story which I'll

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Speaker 4: come on to.

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Speaker 1: But college was a little bit better because I started

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Speaker 1: to make friends just by talking about football, cricket, things

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Speaker 1: like that. But still I used to sit in a

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Speaker 1: certain part of the room. When I would stand with

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Speaker 1: my friends, I would stand on the right hand side,

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Speaker 1: so they've seen this side of the right side.

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Speaker 4: Of my face.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I did not learn to accept it. And

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Speaker 1: what happened was after that Auntie g experience. About a

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Speaker 1: year year and a half after that, I started speaking

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Speaker 1: to a wonderful woman in India. My friend introduced us

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Speaker 1: because my family were looking to get me an arranged

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Speaker 1: marriage and my friend was like, Hey, what speak to

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Speaker 1: this girl? I think sheould you and her would really

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Speaker 1: get on. And he knew her and he went and

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Speaker 1: spoke to her and she said no. First she said,

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Speaker 1: please don't give my number to this man. I don't

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Speaker 1: want to move to England. I don't want to get married.

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Speaker 1: I'm too busy. She was a makeup artist by profession.

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Speaker 1: And he came and told me and he was like,

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Speaker 1: she said, no, but message her anyway. I'm like no, no.

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Speaker 3: It was like, no, do it?

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Speaker 4: Trust me to send her a message.

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Speaker 1: One of my sisters has now moved back to India

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Speaker 1: and my wife now she used to live in the

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Speaker 1: next road next to her. She goes, look, there's some

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Speaker 1: commonality there. Just message and I was like, so I

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Speaker 1: sent her a message and I said, hey, my friend

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Speaker 1: gave me a number. How are you doing ukay? And

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Speaker 1: she did reply for about two three and I was like, wow,

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Speaker 1: my done. This is just such a bad idea.

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Speaker 4: But then she replied back. She wouldlied back saying hey,

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Speaker 4: I know. He said, how are you you okay?

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Speaker 1: And then we started messaging and I was talking about

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Speaker 1: my sister living near her, and there was some commonality

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Speaker 1: and we started messaging and there was a click. There

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Speaker 1: was a click and we can continued messaging. And I

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Speaker 1: said to her, I like eating. She said, I like cooking.

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Speaker 1: I was like, this is great. We weren't made for

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Speaker 1: each other and we had all these answer and I

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Speaker 1: used to video call her a lot, and I used

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Speaker 1: to video call her, and I used to cover the

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Speaker 1: left hand side of my face and show her the

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Speaker 1: right hand side, and she.

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Speaker 4: Let it go once or twice.

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Speaker 1: But on the third occasion she said to me, I'm

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Speaker 1: it if I marry you, I'm not going to marry

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Speaker 1: half of your face. I know exactly what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: Stop stop hiding yourself and own it. And it was

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Speaker 1: at that point that I learned two big things. One

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Speaker 1: that she's the one for me because you know, actually

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Speaker 1: accepts me. But two, I need to learn to accept

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Speaker 1: who I am before others can accept me. And now

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Speaker 1: when I go and speak at schools and colleges, I

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Speaker 1: very much talk about this point. That we live in

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Speaker 1: this world now where we're all constantly seeking validation externally.

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Speaker 1: We want to be liked by others. We want to

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Speaker 1: post a video and social media and get more likes

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Speaker 1: than our friends. We want to we like by our teachers,

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Speaker 1: like by our friends, our parents, but we don't spend

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Speaker 1: enough time in liking ourselves. We don't spend enough time

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Speaker 1: in giving ourself validation. And I ask this really funny

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Speaker 1: question in colleges all the time, and it gets them

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Speaker 1: giggling but thinking. I say, would you go on a

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Speaker 1: date with yourself? And then they think about it, and

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Speaker 1: I'm like, well, if you're not going to spend two

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Speaker 1: hours with yourself, what makes you think someone else is

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Speaker 1: going to spend that time with you? And the same

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Speaker 1: can apply for a job interview in a professional world.

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Speaker 1: If you're not going to back yourself, why would someone

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Speaker 1: else back you?

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Speaker 2: That's correct, well said, that was actually I was coming

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Speaker 2: up to what you just said then, because of how

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Speaker 2: did you go trying to find your first job?

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Speaker 4: I worked in call centers? Is for a very long time?

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Speaker 2: Was that by choice? Because you didn't want to go

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Speaker 2: into the workplace?

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Speaker 1: When I think back now, it was I didn't probably

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Speaker 1: accept it at the time, but I didn't. You know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of my friends went to work in like

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Speaker 1: retail shops and things like that, and I went straight

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Speaker 1: into a call center, which is why I made a

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Speaker 1: career out of sales and marketing. And the end of it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I went and worked in call centers, and

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Speaker 1: I remember the very first job that I did, going

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Speaker 1: into work, going into training, apparently everyone was informed that

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Speaker 1: there's going to be a man starting who has a

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Speaker 1: visible difference. Everyone be kind, everyone be nice, and I

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Speaker 1: found that a little bit strange thinking about it.

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Speaker 4: Now, keep been through some point.

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Speaker 3: Was there any pain in this, like physical pain or not?

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Speaker 1: The condition has a lot of pain. The condition comes

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Speaker 1: with scoliosis, which is a curvature of the spine, so

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Speaker 1: myne is curved. So my love of cricket was very

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Speaker 1: short lived because as I got older, I could no

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Speaker 1: longer bowl. I was a leg spinner, and as I

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Speaker 1: got older, I could no longer bowl because of my

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Speaker 1: because of my spine. I had a really really long

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Speaker 1: surgery on my spine and after this, I constantly have

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Speaker 1: neck pain because of it. I constantly during the cold,

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Speaker 1: and my face gets very sore and very painful. Inside

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Speaker 1: of my mouth the tumor grows there as well, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes I bite into it and then it starts bleeding.

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Speaker 1: So you can imagine you're sitting in a dinner with

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Speaker 1: some friends and suddenly you bit into the tumor and

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Speaker 1: you're spitting blood and it's.

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Speaker 4: Horrible, isn't it?

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Speaker 3: And can they not remove that? Can they not remove it?

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Speaker 4: Still?

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Speaker 3: They can?

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Speaker 1: They can, they can remove it. But the tendency of

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Speaker 1: the condition is it will always grow back. And when

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Speaker 1: you play with it, when you when you temper it,

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Speaker 1: it grows back with more force.

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Speaker 2: So going back to when you're the eyepatch, and the

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Speaker 2: eyepatch you've got, now, how how regularly do you have

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Speaker 2: to change that from better? Because it's had an adult

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Speaker 2: one that's an adult size, so so how so you

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Speaker 2: would have changed it every time you went from a

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Speaker 2: different age.

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Speaker 1: I change it about once yea, because our skin tone,

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Speaker 1: our color, we get wrinkles, we get older, unfortunately, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: every year they give me a new one.

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Speaker 3: Wow. And it's not that's not painful or anyway or

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Speaker 3: it's not.

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Speaker 1: Your viewers see this, but it literally just comes out

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Speaker 1: like benches, like you know, how you take and then

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Speaker 1: it just literally clips back on with magnets.

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Speaker 3: So it's got it's magnetic to go back on.

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Speaker 2: Wow.

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Speaker 3: But it's not it's not like itchy in any way

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Speaker 3: or discomfort.

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Speaker 1: It is very uncomfortable. I've just become very comfortable at

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Speaker 1: work now. Actually, so if we're in a meeting with

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Speaker 1: with our direct colleagues, I'll take it off in the

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Speaker 1: meeting because you know, it gets really wet and sweaty

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Speaker 1: and uncomfortable.

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Speaker 3: Well, so when when you shower, you'd have to take

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Speaker 3: that off or you keep it on.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, a shower, I take it off.

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Speaker 1: When I'm at home, I leave it off. A lot

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Speaker 1: of time. When I go to sleep, I leave it off.

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ.

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Speaker 3: So I want to ask you about you.

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Speaker 2: You said that when you got older, it kind of

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Speaker 2: didn't get us worse.

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Speaker 3: It got kind of better. But I actually thought it

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Speaker 3: would have got worse.

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Speaker 2: Because the fact that when you're you know, I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you did ever go into a pub when

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Speaker 2: you were in college or like that, and people on

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Speaker 2: the alcohol. I know what they're like in fucking England

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Speaker 2: that they get rowdy, get on a few pints and

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Speaker 2: then they'll they'll pick someone out in the pub that

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Speaker 2: they want to fucking have banter with.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, so no, let me let me.

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Speaker 3: It got better in terms of.

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Speaker 1: My friends direct friend circle, they became more supportive and

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Speaker 1: they would do banter with me, just like they do

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Speaker 1: banter with their friends. Yeah, what wasn't good was going

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Speaker 1: into pumps, going into cafes and my friends were like,

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Speaker 1: I want to go knock that guy out right now,

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Speaker 1: I want to go punch me in his face.

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Speaker 4: And I'm like why.

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Speaker 1: It's like staring at you or a girl stare up

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Speaker 1: and it's like, I bet if you saw her face

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Speaker 1: in the make in the morning without makeup, it'd be

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Speaker 1: worse than yours on it.

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Speaker 4: You know. It's that kind of stuff.

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Speaker 1: My friends would say to me to like comfort me.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, like the women would stare at me like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, what the hell is that?

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Speaker 3: Because I understand that.

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Speaker 2: I think I heard that you actually went into a

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Speaker 2: cafe and they want to save you.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so this is this is very very recent. This

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Speaker 1: is what two three months ago when I went into

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Speaker 1: oh that recent. Yeah, so my life had a turning point.

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Speaker 1: My life had a turning point. So, like I said

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Speaker 1: to you, I was working in sales, I was getting

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Speaker 1: on with it, I'd graduated, got married, got my house.

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Speaker 1: My wife had moved to England and she said to me, hey,

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Speaker 1: am it, why don't you create some content, Why don't

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Speaker 1: you share your journey? I think your attitude towards life

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Speaker 1: of this get on with it can help people. And

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Speaker 1: she asked me to make a TikTok video and I

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Speaker 1: was like, no, you know, I'm too busy, and wives

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Speaker 1: have a way of getting what they want. So eventually

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Speaker 1: I created that video, and you know, I'm so thankful

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Speaker 1: for it now because that video went viral. I got

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Speaker 1: over one hundred thousand views on my first single video.

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Speaker 1: My TikTok Instagram was growing at like a thousand followers

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Speaker 1: per day, but it wasn't really about the followers. It

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Speaker 1: more about the comments and the messages that were coming

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Speaker 1: in of people saying I'm it, I'm going through the

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Speaker 1: same journey as you, thank you, or asking me questions.

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Speaker 1: And I started to create more and more content, and

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Speaker 1: I started getting opportunities to go and speak on stage.

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Speaker 1: And I got this opportunity from a charity in America

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Speaker 1: who invited me over and they said the conferences in

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Speaker 1: San Antonio. I didn't know where San Antonio was. I

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Speaker 1: had to go and google it. That's you know, this

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Speaker 1: is how new OL's doing all this. And they were like,

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Speaker 1: we'll bring you and I was like, I can't afford

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Speaker 1: the tickets. They're like, no, we'll bring you over, We'll

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Speaker 1: pay for your hotel, we'll pay for your travel, We'll

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Speaker 1: give you a bit of money to do this talk

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Speaker 1: as well. Went to America and spoke in front of

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Speaker 1: two thousand people. It was a charity for my condition

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Speaker 1: and it was all these patients for their parents were

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Speaker 1: there and I spoke about my journey. I spoke about

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Speaker 1: growing up. And I came back to England and spoke

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Speaker 1: to my manager and said to my manager, it's been

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Speaker 1: so incredible being in this talk and wh like, am it?

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Speaker 1: Why don't you go to my daughter school and talk

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Speaker 1: about your journey? And then I went to his daughter

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Speaker 1: school and I spoke about bullying. I spoke about some

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Speaker 1: of the things that happened to me in school and

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Speaker 1: how that made me feel, and how we're sure be

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Speaker 1: kind and mindful.

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Speaker 4: And one thing.

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Speaker 1: Happened in that school that changed everything forever, and that

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Speaker 1: was there was a young boy named Vinnie in that

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Speaker 1: session who came and took some photographs with me. Two

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Speaker 1: weeks after, I got a newsletter sent to me from

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Speaker 1: the school and it was a news article from Vinnie.

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Speaker 1: And Vinnie was waiting for a heart transplant, and he

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Speaker 1: heard my talk and started playing football. When he heard

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Speaker 1: me playing cricket, he went and spoke to his mom

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Speaker 1: and the quote he said to his mom was, I

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Speaker 1: want to be a motivational speaker like the man who

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Speaker 1: came to our school. I was no motivational speaker at

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Speaker 1: that point. I read that, went back to work and

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Speaker 1: said to my manager, thank you so much for sending

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Speaker 1: me to your daughter school. Here is my notice. I

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Speaker 1: am leaving. I'm going to go do this for the

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Speaker 1: rest of my life. I did not know how I'm

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Speaker 1: going to make money from this. I did not know

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Speaker 1: how I'm going to monetize. We'd just moved into our

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Speaker 1: new house with my wife and everything. But I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to do it. And I think back now and

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Speaker 1: I think about Simon Sinok and how he talks about

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Speaker 1: finding your why. I had found my why. This is

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Speaker 1: my why. I want to share my story. I want

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Speaker 1: to help people. I want to inspire people. And I

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Speaker 1: started speaking at school. I started speaking around the world.

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Speaker 1: I started doing lunch and learns, creating podcasts, and I

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Speaker 1: started journaling all of this. I started journaling all my

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Speaker 1: childhood memories and I turned it into a book called

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Speaker 1: Born Different. I sent it to four or five publishers,

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Speaker 1: all who rejected it. Now fast forward to this coffee incident.

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Speaker 1: I'm in London, I'm with my wife. I go for

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Speaker 1: a walk in the afternoon and I go into this

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Speaker 1: coffee shop predominantly men sitting there staring at me as

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Speaker 1: if they've seen a ghost, with no exaggeration.

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Speaker 4: And I go over to the desk and I order.

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Speaker 1: A coffee and a cake, and she looks at me

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Speaker 1: and says, oh, we're not serving anymore, and gives me

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Speaker 1: a strange look and turns around and walks away. Clearly

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Speaker 1: they were serving, because there were a lot of people

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Speaker 1: sitting in the shop, and there was a lot of

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Speaker 1: people in front of me as well who had just

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Speaker 1: ordered a coffee. I was left there, stood thinking what

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Speaker 1: just happened. I looked around and people are still giving

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Speaker 1: me this look of who are you? What's happened to

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Speaker 1: your face? Like I can just read their mind. So

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Speaker 1: I walked out and I was really really upset, and

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Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, Born Different needs to come

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Speaker 1: out to the world.

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Speaker 2: I want to listen to the episode in four click

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Speaker 2: the link in the description