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Speaker 1: Hi, my boris, and this is straight talk. I've spoken

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Speaker 1: to prime ministers, top business leaders, world class operators, and

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Speaker 1: some of the sharpest minds in tech and property. I

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Speaker 1: speak to the best in the business. I make it

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Speaker 1: my business to do that. But there's a lot behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes that no one sees, and I want you

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Speaker 1: to be part of it. That's why my team and

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Speaker 1: I are launching mentor Plus now. It's a new website

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Speaker 1: platform designed to bring you the best business insights and

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Speaker 1: about growing in their business, and in their career and

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Speaker 1: in life. So we're going to launch a new weekly

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Speaker 1: solo podcast featuring Q and A where I'll dive deep

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Speaker 1: into the business. I'm going to dive into life questions

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Speaker 1: the buio, join the wait list and I'll see you inside.

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Speaker 1: Hang Es Tarla.

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Speaker 2: Welcome straight to it mate, Great to be with you mate.

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Speaker 1: Well now you are the shadow Treasurer the election coming up,

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Speaker 1: but most people a lot of people don't know who

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Speaker 1: you are because you know, the treasurer gets all the

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Speaker 1: oxygen out of the system, the current treasurer, and he's

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Speaker 1: actually not about performing when you think about it, in

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Speaker 1: that sense. He's very good at sucking the oxygen the system.

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Speaker 1: Actually so much so I think he's even living his

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Speaker 1: prime minister looking a little bit more gasping for from

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Speaker 1: from time to time, I need to know and I

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Speaker 1: think our voters need to know a story about you.

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Speaker 1: We don't know much about you, and when I was

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Speaker 1: reading a brief, I got quite surprised. Went Wow, this

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Speaker 1: guy's not just a politician, and I think that's an

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Speaker 1: important point for an election because we are. I think

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Speaker 1: Australians don't for just politicians. So we needed to know

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Speaker 1: about your story. So take me back, whether he would

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Speaker 1: you grow up? What'd you deal?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Well, look, I'm a recent coming to politics relative to

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Speaker 3: many in the Parliament, particularly on the other side.

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Speaker 1: So it hasn't made a political career.

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Speaker 2: No, not at all. In fact, quite the opposite.

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Speaker 3: So I grew up on a family farm in a

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Speaker 3: little town called nimmode Bell At the time it was

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Speaker 3: about four hundred people saw milling Town south of Kooma

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Speaker 3: and Snow Mountains, Wales, New South Wales, southeast New South Wales,

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Speaker 3: tiny little town, Cold High, a pretty bleak but very

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Speaker 3: beautiful place in my view, sheep and cattle and my

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Speaker 3: family had farmed there for a number of generations and

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Speaker 3: my dad and mum met down in that area.

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Speaker 2: Although they both they were both.

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Speaker 3: He was the first in his family to go after

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Speaker 3: union and that's where he met mum and part of

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Speaker 3: a family with four boys, and it was a typical

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Speaker 3: farming family. Business and family only are the same thing.

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Speaker 3: When you're a farming family, it's like any small business.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, everything, everything.

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Speaker 3: Bleeds into each other. And you know, we'd be from

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Speaker 3: very young age we all learned to ride a horse.

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Speaker 3: It's rough country, so most of the stock work back

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Speaker 3: in those days was done on horse.

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Speaker 2: Back, in fact, pretty much all of it.

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Speaker 3: So the first thing we'd learned to do is ride

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Speaker 3: a horse, and we'd spend days and days on end

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Speaker 3: sitting on a horse, chasing mobs of sheep and cattle

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Speaker 3: around the place and with other blokes. Mostly they're occasionally

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Speaker 3: women who worked on the on the place as well.

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Speaker 3: You didn't always learn the Queen's English as it was

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Speaker 3: then from these people, but you learn, you learn a

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Speaker 3: lot about life, and I you know, those days for

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Speaker 3: me were completely formative, sitting around the kitchen table talking

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Speaker 3: about the farm, what we're doing, which mob of sheep

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Speaker 3: we're going to move, where, what prices were looking like,

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Speaker 3: what the weather was doing, whether there was enough feed.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it just is all.

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Speaker 3: Consuming and fundament absolute fundamentals. I mean, you know, you

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Speaker 3: watched animals die in front of you. You have to

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Speaker 3: kill them because you know there's a problem, and you

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Speaker 3: have to put them out of them. Is in these

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Speaker 3: these are really formative things I think, which I realize

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Speaker 3: are very different about my background than others. That it's

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Speaker 3: at the sharp end of a small business, fighting the weather,

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Speaker 3: the prices, and often frankly, my family felt like they

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Speaker 3: were fighting much bigger forces that they couldn't control, government,

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Speaker 3: big businesses. And I think that's how a lot of

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Speaker 3: small business people felt feel all the time. So that

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Speaker 3: was the heart of my upbring. I think it came

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Speaker 3: to it came to a head in the early eighties

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Speaker 3: when we we were carrying quite a lot of debt

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Speaker 3: and it was a really terrible drought right across the

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Speaker 3: East coast of Australia in the early eighties, and that

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Speaker 3: was a very tough time. But we got through and

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Speaker 3: like other farming families, you're resilient, you fight your way

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Speaker 3: through and you get there. And so for me, that

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Speaker 3: was the most formative part of my upbringing. A very

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Speaker 3: loving family, close, very loyal family. My three brothers today

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Speaker 3: we're still very close.

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Speaker 2: What do you sit in the I'm third, third out

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Speaker 2: of fourth.

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Speaker 3: We're all pretty close in age. So you know, we

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Speaker 3: played a lot of sport growing up against each.

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Speaker 1: Other and who's your footag team?

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Speaker 3: Well can these days as Canberra of course the Raiders

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Speaker 3: weren't around, or they weren't around in those days, so

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Speaker 3: we all had different teams. But then when Camber turned.

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Speaker 1: Up with and you're new South Wales of origin supporting

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Speaker 1: of course, and you're like your rugby leagu Ruby, Well, look,

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Speaker 1: I grew.

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Speaker 3: Up in my early years playing for Nimdebelle Public School

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Speaker 3: Rugby League and then switched as I got older to rugby.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, and I think it's important, Like I like

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Speaker 1: to understand because I didn't grow up in a farming

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Speaker 1: family though my dad was a farmer in Greece, but

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Speaker 1: when it comes through, it's a factory worker. But I'd

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Speaker 1: like to understand a little bit more about the the

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Speaker 1: dynamics in a family. Well maybe you could explain a

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Speaker 1: bit more the dynamics of a farming farming family when

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Speaker 1: things get tough, like if you went through that drought period.

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Speaker 1: I remember when we had recessions as we had recession

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Speaker 1: to you too, I remember when my da was seventy four,

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Speaker 1: we had a recession. My dad always lost sort of

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Speaker 1: lost his job whenever there was a recession on which

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Speaker 1: is normal, what happens. And I know what that family

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Speaker 1: dynamic was, Like, what was your family dynamic? Like? See

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Speaker 1: during the during a drought, when you're watching sheep die,

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Speaker 1: sheep and catill I presume die not be able to

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Speaker 1: get enough food from me, You couldn't get enough grain

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Speaker 1: or whatever is you're feeding him. How does the family operate?

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Speaker 3: It's cathartic, you know, I remember that eighty two drought,

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Speaker 3: and we had a similar situation which was more driven

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Speaker 3: by prices in the early nineties because the will price

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Speaker 3: collapsed and people were shooting sheep because they were being

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Speaker 3: paid to do it.

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Speaker 1: Because you couldn't afford to keep the sheep.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because there were too many, and yes, so the

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Speaker 3: government paid you shoot to carl and it was terrible.

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Speaker 3: But the early eighties was probably the really formative one

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Speaker 3: for me. I was fifteen sixteen, and yeah, the place

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Speaker 3: was just bear was bear and the sheep were they

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Speaker 3: were dying, and it was I'll never forget it. I

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Speaker 3: mean would the place was covered in rabbits. For some reason,

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Speaker 3: the rabbit numbers increased and so would be out and

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Speaker 3: you could you could get a rabbit from two hundred

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Speaker 3: meters away because there was no grass.

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Speaker 1: You can see them everywhere.

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Speaker 3: But the family dynamics interesting, I mean, it's just stress,

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Speaker 3: like at the end of the day, there's this quiet

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Speaker 3: stress that is not there in better times that I

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Speaker 3: think everyone in the family feels because it's not like

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Speaker 3: your dad or mum, whoever it is who the primary

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Speaker 3: breadwinner is going off during the day and then coming

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Speaker 3: back and it's a disconnected place.

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Speaker 2: It's all around you.

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Speaker 3: You walk out the back door and there's the shed,

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Speaker 3: and there's the cattle yards, and it's just there. And

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Speaker 3: so you can't avoid it. You can't avoid it. And

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Speaker 3: I knew Mum and Dad were carrying real stress during

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Speaker 3: that time, and I think everyone was. It's also in

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Speaker 3: the community because there's that stress for everybody. There's a

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Speaker 3: stoicism I think in farmers and in small business people,

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Speaker 3: which I have just massive respect for. I see it

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Speaker 3: now because there's so many small business people struggling at

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Speaker 3: the moment, you know, people running cafes, people in the

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Speaker 3: construction industry, and I see that stoicism which is what

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Speaker 3: gets them through.

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Speaker 2: And it's an incredible strength. But you've got to have that.

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Speaker 1: Is it a performance? So do you think? I mean,

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Speaker 1: and why do you think your mum and dad did it?

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Speaker 1: Like you? You experience at this stoicism and you're the

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Speaker 1: greater community. Why do you think people do it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I've often wondered about this. I mean, I've been through

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Speaker 1: it myself, but I know why I did it. But

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Speaker 1: why do you think people generally speaking in your community

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Speaker 1: when you're growing up present this stoicism. Is that an

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Speaker 1: Australian thing, do you think?

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Speaker 3: I think there is something very Australian in it. I

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Speaker 3: think it's very very clear in farming communities because you've

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Speaker 3: you've got lots of uncontrollable stuff coming at you. You know,

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Speaker 3: the weather, prices, government, government regulations, and all of those

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Speaker 3: things are coming out. You can't control them. And if

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Speaker 3: you spend your time thinking you can control any of

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Speaker 3: this sends you crazy. You've got to work out how

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Speaker 3: to go with the punches. And so it's bred this

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Speaker 3: incredible resilience, this credible strength that I see in those communities.

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Speaker 3: I feel very proud to have grown up in this

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Speaker 3: little community of Nimiteville in deep southern New South Wales

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Speaker 3: because it has that kind of culture and I learned

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Speaker 3: an enormous amount from it. But I see it in

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Speaker 3: Australians wherever.

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Speaker 2: I go to.

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Speaker 3: It's not restricted to anyone place. And I think it's

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Speaker 3: what's given us great strength as a country. And I

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Speaker 3: think that that is all part of our you know,

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Speaker 3: the Glipoli spirit. In many ways, that's what's there. We

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Speaker 3: didn't control what was going on around us at that

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Speaker 3: time and this we celebrate, this deep resilience and stoicism.

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Speaker 3: I think it gives us great strength.

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Speaker 1: It's funny, I was just thinking as you're saying that,

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Speaker 1: I was just thinking, to some extent, Australia represents lots

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Speaker 1: of things to me. But and I don't want to

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Speaker 1: get too political on it, but celebrating on austral Day,

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Speaker 1: our stoicism and our resilience is a really important thing

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Speaker 1: to do. Whatever date that people decid do it right now,

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Speaker 1: it's in January, that's the date I'm happy about. But

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Speaker 1: just having a day when we celebrate these things, these

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Speaker 1: characteristics of Australians, whether they new Australians or someone who's

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Speaker 1: been on the land for five generations, doesn't really matter.

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Speaker 1: But that common denominator between people who identify as Australians,

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Speaker 1: that stoicism, that resilience, is pretty blood important. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And I think you asked earlier really good question, which

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Speaker 3: is why do people do it? Because I see everywhere

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Speaker 3: I go, all through my electric people going through hard

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Speaker 3: times and what keeps them going. I think we're deeply

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Speaker 3: aspirational country, and I think that aspiration is.

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Speaker 2: Fuel for us.

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Speaker 3: It's fuel for Australians want to we want to get ahead,

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Speaker 3: we want to have a go, we want to have

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Speaker 3: a crack, and we give others a go too. I mean,

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Speaker 3: this is all part of our great spirit. So I

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Speaker 3: do feel very very privileged to have had that as

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Speaker 3: part of my upbring. I think it does also breed

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Speaker 3: this deep loyalty and love which is in my family.

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Speaker 3: We're you know, farming families aren't always people who express

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Speaker 3: their their love and affection free part of the culture.

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Speaker 3: But I tell you what, under underneath, it's there, and

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Speaker 3: that deep sense of loyalty to your mates, to your friends,

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Speaker 3: to your family, to those who you close to.

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Speaker 1: Lord being that I will always be there.

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Speaker 2: I will always be there.

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Speaker 3: You know, we go after Mimandwell Public School for boys

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Speaker 3: for brothers, and you know we'd be brawling with each

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Speaker 3: other when we're at home, but when we got into

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Speaker 3: the school yard, if anyone had to go at any

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Speaker 3: one of us, yeah, there was always that loyalty.

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Speaker 1: Well, phil Will once told me a very funny story

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Speaker 1: and has a very funny saying about that. And you

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Speaker 1: coaching Origin and I was sponsoring the tom and he

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Speaker 1: said to me, obviously he did said to me, he

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Speaker 1: said to the group. But I was in the room

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Speaker 1: when he said it to the boys, the players, and

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Speaker 1: he basically said, the way we've got to think of

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Speaker 1: ourselves like a cat, and on the field, the way

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Speaker 1: you've got to think of yourselves as a group. If

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Speaker 1: you pull the cat's tail, you get the whole fucking cat, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's that's like a family. That's how you're sort

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Speaker 1: of describing you. We're a cat, we're up to all

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Speaker 1: sorts of mischief, but you pull our tail, you get

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Speaker 1: every one of us. And that that's And I know

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Speaker 1: that people today would say, oh, well, you know, you

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Speaker 1: know that would be I'm not suggesting violence, right, I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about just support exactly. And that's to me, that's

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Speaker 1: proper loyalty in a family. The family. You can have

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Speaker 1: your arguments, but when it's on, we're we're I.

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Speaker 3: Think this is really common in small business families in general.

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Speaker 3: Become a block. You become a block. You're working together

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Speaker 3: that you've got the shared goals, looking towards your own

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Speaker 3: goals as well as each other's, and it's actually a wonderful,

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Speaker 3: wonderful thing. I mean, you understand teamwork. I think that

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Speaker 3: in a way that perhaps others don't.

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Speaker 1: So how do you? And now you're in the game politics,

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Speaker 1: and I want to go through the process how you

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Speaker 1: got there. But now you're in politics, what happens? What

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Speaker 1: do you think to yourself? Sometimes in politics, when you're

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Speaker 1: all politicians, labor, liberal, Greens, you're all together working for

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Speaker 1: the best of our country, you must think to yourself,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, what's happening here? When everybody starts let's

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Speaker 1: call it quarreling amongst each other, and you say, can

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Speaker 1: we just get to the number? What we're here for.

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Speaker 1: We're here to make this country better. We're here to

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Speaker 1: look after our constituents across the whole country. You know,

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Speaker 1: we've got stuff happening all around the world relative to us.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever sort of get to a point where

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Speaker 1: you get completely exasperated by the political process, not having

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Speaker 1: been born in the political.

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Speaker 3: Process, Yeah, one hundred percent. I would say I've seen that,

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Speaker 3: not just in politics. I've seen that in business career

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Speaker 3: before politics too.

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Speaker 1: But that's when we're competing with each other.

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Speaker 3: Correct, And you know, I've played a lot of team

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Speaker 3: sport growing up, and just describe to you that sense

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Speaker 3: of team and loyalty that I've always added. So when

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Speaker 3: I see teams being dysfunctional, I don't like it. And

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Speaker 3: I didn't come up through student politics or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: So what I've seen in politics is some incredible behavior,

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Speaker 3: the best of human behavior. You also see some of

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Speaker 3: the worst, and that's always disappointing. I think the thing

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Speaker 3: that keeps me going is that the people I meet

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Speaker 3: in this job give me hope every single day. But

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Speaker 3: both people in the Parliament. There's good people in the

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Speaker 3: Parliament on both sides of the Parliament and people right

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Speaker 3: across the country because there are incredible people. Despite the

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Speaker 3: fact that we do see bad behavior, despite the fact

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Speaker 3: that there is dysfunctional behavior from summer times, the truth

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Speaker 3: is there's enough good Australians trying to do the right

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Speaker 3: thing that I have huge hope for this country for

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Speaker 3: the future, as we've seen in the past.

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Speaker 1: So, Okay, you're at school, you've finished you finished school.

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Speaker 1: What happens after that? I mean, you're on the farm.

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Speaker 1: Did you get did you go to university somewhere?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So I went off to Sydney University as my dad had.

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Speaker 3: As I said, he was the first in his family

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Speaker 3: to do that and he went off and he was

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Speaker 3: originally doing agriculture and did bet science. I was going

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Speaker 3: to be a bet as he did.

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Speaker 1: You did agg science or.

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Speaker 3: He started doing and then did vet and he was

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Speaker 3: then a qualified vet and then went back to the farm, right,

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Speaker 3: but obviously used his vet skills on the farm, So

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Speaker 3: you did well. I was going to and then right

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Speaker 3: at the end I changed my mind, you know, and

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Speaker 3: I still can't quite work out why, and did economics

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Speaker 3: or combined law degree, right, and maybe I was rejecting

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Speaker 3: my dad and my older brother who had done vet

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Speaker 3: science as well. I thought, well, you know, I'm going

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Speaker 3: to do something different, so I did combined combined economics

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Speaker 3: law at Sydney University.

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Speaker 1: Well let me justtop you there for se because that's

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Speaker 1: quite interesting from my point of view, because I happened

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Speaker 1: to know because in my class at school, I was

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Speaker 1: not a country boy, grew up in the West summers.

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Speaker 1: But in my class at school, not that many kids

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Speaker 1: were in university, but probably the kid was at the

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Speaker 1: top of the school, probably always coming first a second

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Speaker 1: and most of the subjects he got into bed science.

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Speaker 1: But as I recall, this is in nineteen seventy something.

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Speaker 1: But as I recall, I did a commis orate degree.

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Speaker 1: But as I recall, for him to get bed science,

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Speaker 1: I think then he took thirty students at Sydney. It

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Speaker 1: was I think it was considered to be the toughest

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Speaker 1: degree to get into it Sydney University.

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Speaker 2: At the time. Medicine they're about the same.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have one of the boy did medicine, a

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Speaker 1: couple in common law and one in vet science. And

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Speaker 1: the actually the guy did medicine became a priest. After

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Speaker 1: the medicine, he became a doctment. He became pre staff

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Speaker 1: that Anthony could dare. But so you must have pretty well,

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Speaker 1: NDE just see you to get into that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, and you know.

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Speaker 3: You were studious kid then well, my parents were huge

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Speaker 3: believers in the power of education.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: Dad was obviously a farmer, but he believed education really mattered.

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Speaker 2: And my mum did as well.

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Speaker 3: Her father was an engineer, civil engineer in New Zealand,

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Speaker 3: South Old, New Zealand who had come over and it

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Speaker 3: was living in Kuma, and they wanted us to have

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Speaker 3: a university education. They always encouraged us to learn. I mean,

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Speaker 3: mum was teaching us to read before we went to school,

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Speaker 3: you know, and so that again I was really privileged

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Speaker 3: to have had that, and that there's great love of

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Speaker 3: learning and of knowledge and the power of it. And

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Speaker 3: so yeah, went off to unicombined law and loved it,

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Speaker 3: you know. And there was a lot of business in

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Speaker 3: our around our kitchen table, there was business. There was politics,

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Speaker 3: and there was farming. And so I really loved the

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Speaker 3: sort of the business side of economics and law.

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Speaker 1: And were in those days we're in Phillip Street and

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Speaker 1: Philip Street.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, at the law school. Yeah, yeah, I was, yeah,

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Speaker 2: some of the last years.

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Speaker 1: Before they moved for the movie they moved.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 3: So, and and loved all I particularly loved the economics.

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Speaker 3: I just felt that it helped me understand the world

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Speaker 3: around me and how it worked, and I could explain

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Speaker 3: what was going on. And it really appelled to me

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Speaker 3: because we'd had economics around us growing up in the

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Speaker 3: farm the whole time. Right, I'm the wool price, the

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Speaker 3: meat price. It was economics. And so I loved it,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it did okay, and managed to get

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Speaker 3: a scholarship to go after Oxford and study economics postgraduate.

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Speaker 1: Post grade US post grade economics like.

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Speaker 3: Masters, Masters, two year masters, sort of much of the

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Speaker 3: way towards a PhD. I didn't I didn't want to

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Speaker 3: finish the purg d. I wanted to get out of

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Speaker 3: the workforce by then I had enough of academic.

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Speaker 1: And what did you major in your master's degree? So

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Speaker 1: I don't know about there, but I know you're a

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Speaker 1: SOB where I'm You did your course subjects and then

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Speaker 1: you did.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, a thesis. Yeah that's right, And I did well.

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Speaker 3: I've done and on as year at Sydney University. But

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Speaker 3: I did my thesis at Oxford in an area called

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Speaker 3: industrial organization, which is which is about how industries work

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Speaker 3: and businesses work. But the thesis was on the brewing industry,

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Speaker 3: the beer industry in the UK, and Margaret Thatcher had

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Speaker 3: actually said to the big brewers, you've got to sell

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Speaker 3: off some of your pubs because you're doing over the

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Speaker 3: UK beer drinker. It's unfair what you're doing. You're tying

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Speaker 3: up the pubs and you're forcing a lack of competition

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Speaker 3: in the industry. And so she forced the big brewers

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Speaker 3: to sell off pubs. So my whole thesis was on

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Speaker 3: that most people doing a thesis. You know, at a

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Speaker 3: place like that, no one else is interested in it

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Speaker 3: because it doesn't relate to them. But I've got to

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Speaker 3: tell you, everyone was interested in my thesis because you know,

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Speaker 3: we'd all go down to the local pub, which is

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Speaker 3: a big part of and getting ripped off, and everyone

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Speaker 3: we were students, we didn't have a lot of money,

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Speaker 3: so everyone felt like that was getting they were getting

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Speaker 3: ripped off.

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Speaker 2: So that was it was a fun thing to do.

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Speaker 1: That's a very interesting thesis to have done in the

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Speaker 1: wake of the trip finding recently in relation to calls

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Speaker 1: and wool worse.

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Speaker 3: And divestiture, because it was actually it was a divestiture case. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and Margaret thatcher lted it, so that that was.

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Speaker 1: That's a very interesting thesis to have done.

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Speaker 3: It was and look, it taught me. The bigger thing

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Speaker 3: is it taught me about how industries work, how businesses

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Speaker 3: make money, how they don't what what what what?

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Speaker 1: Uh?

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Speaker 3: You know, how how an economy works as well. And

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Speaker 3: that was the great power of doing economics. I think

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Speaker 3: it's a really useful discipline to have whether you're go

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Speaker 3: into business or politics or many other many other areas

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Speaker 3: of life. And so you know, I loved it, and

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Speaker 3: then and got a job at the end of my

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Speaker 3: time at Oxford to go and work with McKinsey, which

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Speaker 3: is a consultancy consultancy FIR.

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Speaker 1: And what do is you what what are the sort

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Speaker 1: of things you I mean, it's very transactional on McKinsey's

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Speaker 1: but depending on who the clients are. But what are

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Speaker 1: some of the things you worked on?

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Speaker 3: Well, the first, the first big project I did at

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Speaker 3: McKinsey was working down at Port Kimbler. So there was

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Speaker 3: this in Australian Yeah, I come. I came back to Australia.

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Speaker 3: I didn't want to work in the UK. I wanted

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Speaker 3: to come home. I loved Australia and I had two

437
00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 3: great years in the UK, but to win a bit,

438
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,520
Speaker 3: but wanted to come back, And so I came back.

439
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,320
Speaker 3: And I think there was a sense amongst the senior

440
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,199
Speaker 3: people there, you know, let's let's get this guy to

441
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,359
Speaker 3: put a bit of dirt under his fingernails. Now I

442
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:27,480
Speaker 3: come from a farming background. I don't think I really

443
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 3: needed that, but anyway, I certainly was thrown straight into it.

444
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:33,320
Speaker 3: So I was on the front line of the steel

445
00:21:33,359 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 3: mill down you know, at Port Kembler right our office

446
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,000
Speaker 3: we were working out. I was right in the middle

447
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:44,520
Speaker 3: of the main near the slab caster where you know

448
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:48,399
Speaker 3: the big slabs are poured at the steel mill, and

449
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:52,720
Speaker 3: working to make them more effective, more efficient at a

450
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,119
Speaker 3: time when the steel industry in Australia was under a

451
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 3: huge pressure. There was a real risk it was just

452
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,280
Speaker 3: going to shut and go offshore, you know at that

453
00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:03,840
Speaker 3: time it was gone off to Japan or Korea, and

454
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:06,239
Speaker 3: so we needed to make it more competitive and more

455
00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 3: effective to survive. And so I was part of a

456
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:10,399
Speaker 3: project for an extended period of time to help to

457
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,400
Speaker 3: ensure Paul Kimber survived and it has and I think

458
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,600
Speaker 3: that work back in the early to mid nineties was

459
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,440
Speaker 3: really profound in helping a really important and iconic Australian

460
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,280
Speaker 3: business to survive. So very proud to have been part

461
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 3: of that. I did lots of other bits of work.

462
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,240
Speaker 3: Probably one of the others I was most proud of was.

463
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:29,560
Speaker 2: When I got to partnership.

464
00:22:29,640 --> 00:22:33,080
Speaker 3: There was working with the New Zealand dairy industry, who

465
00:22:33,119 --> 00:22:38,480
Speaker 3: were again great exporting business. They were trying to work

466
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 3: out where they go next, and they ultimately formed a

467
00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:44,960
Speaker 3: company called Fonterra, very famous company, very famous company. So

468
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:47,600
Speaker 3: I was there working with the farmers who owned it.

469
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 3: This is a wonderful organization completely owned by.

470
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: The farmers who liked milk.

471
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:53,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a co op.

472
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, And working with them on how to put fon

473
00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 3: Terra together, how to make it work, how to make

474
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,360
Speaker 3: it effective. They became very close friends, these senior farmers,

475
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 3: you know who. The board was mostly farmers, incredible people,

476
00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 3: wonderful people and really privileged to be part of building

477
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:16,760
Speaker 3: what I think has become one of the iconic businesses

478
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:18,200
Speaker 3: and companies of this region.

479
00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: Particularly in that environment. So what happened after that? What

480
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 1: happened after McKinsey.

481
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:29,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I then left there, partly because McKinsey Global Firm.

482
00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,240
Speaker 3: I loved Australia. Australia was a bit of a backwater

483
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 3: for a place like McKinsey. My industries were agriculture resources,

484
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 3: the primary industries. Infrastructure, did a lot of manufacturing work

485
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,600
Speaker 3: like I had at BHP with down at Paul Kembler,

486
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:51,480
Speaker 3: and so they weren't exciting industries for a big global

487
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,560
Speaker 3: consulting firm like they were exciting to me. I love them,

488
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 3: but not to there, and so I went off to

489
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 3: a local Australian firm doing similar things and with similar

490
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 3: sorts of sorts of clients to what I had been doing,

491
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 3: but I didn't answer to masters in New York or

492
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,640
Speaker 3: London or elsewhere, which suited me, and it also gave

493
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 3: me more flexibility to do other things, including the family

494
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,119
Speaker 3: farming business. So I got more involved with some of

495
00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:19,880
Speaker 3: what we were doing there, so that gave me flexibility

496
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 3: and I continued to work in those sorts of areas.

497
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 3: Probably the most exciting work I did there was was

498
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,240
Speaker 3: building the iron ore industry up in the early to

499
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:35,560
Speaker 3: mid two thousands as we saw China off take and

500
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:40,480
Speaker 3: demand just exploding, and working with the team there iron

501
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 3: ore team over in Perth to build, to build and

502
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:50,960
Speaker 3: grow and move from I guess the a demeanor where

503
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,240
Speaker 3: they weren't growing at all to a mindset of just

504
00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,399
Speaker 3: growing hard on the back of this incredible opportunity we

505
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 3: saw in Asia.

506
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,760
Speaker 1: And I guess that what that sort of To square

507
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: that off properly, then you need to have quite a

508
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:07,639
Speaker 1: lot of experience in terms of building. They need new infrastructure.

509
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: You know, you've got to get the stuff out of

510
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:10,280
Speaker 1: the ground, and you've got to get on the road,

511
00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:11,719
Speaker 1: and you've got to get to a port, and you've

512
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,040
Speaker 1: got to get it to where you've got to get.

513
00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 3: It to exactly a railway, and it's all got to

514
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 3: happen together that if anyone bit is not working, then

515
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,199
Speaker 3: you've spent all your money and you're not getting the outcome.

516
00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 3: And so you know, this is growth, right. I mean,

517
00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 3: I love growth. I love a growing business. Our fame

518
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 3: family farming business over the years has grown. Fonterra was

519
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: exciting because it grew. Working in the mining industry in

520
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 3: Australia was exciting because it grew and was world leading.

521
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:44,679
Speaker 3: I mean, these are amazing industries, absolutely fantastic, and I

522
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,200
Speaker 3: think we can do much more of that here in Australia,

523
00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: that world class, absolutely brilliant work that Australians are more

524
00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,480
Speaker 3: than capable of. The really enterprising, growth oriented approach. We

525
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:00,080
Speaker 3: need that across our economy and I think it's missing.

526
00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,399
Speaker 3: That enterprising spirit. It's there in all of us. I

527
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 3: think it's absolutely at the heart of the Australian spirit,

528
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 3: that kind of aspiration and enterprise. But I feel like

529
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 3: over the last couple of years we've been losing hope,

530
00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,399
Speaker 3: We've lost faith in ourselves mostly.

531
00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: I think it's got to a point now where people say,

532
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: what's the point Because I had to keep running the

533
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: brick walls all the time, you know, every time regulatory

534
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,359
Speaker 1: environments like you know, the regulations, the workplace environment, you know,

535
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: like it's you know, who can I can't hire, it's

536
00:26:32,040 --> 00:26:36,960
Speaker 1: industrial rules, industrial relation rules. It's very, very difficult to.

537
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,959
Speaker 3: Be and it's incredibly frustrating. I mean, this is one

538
00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,680
Speaker 3: of the things that inspired me to go into politics.

539
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 3: One of the things we did when we were putting

540
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,960
Speaker 3: Deer the Fonterra is we went to the government and said,

541
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 3: there's all these barriers, please, we need them knock down

542
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:56,960
Speaker 3: to grow this business. And we took away the monopoly.

543
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 3: We made a competitive business and said bring in competition

544
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,439
Speaker 3: over it. You know, that was the mindset. But if

545
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 3: you're in a small business and you're being hit with

546
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 3: regulatory barriers, you can't go to the government and say, hey,

547
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: I need this fixed or I can't grow.

548
00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: You can't do that and not only any point, go

549
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:14,000
Speaker 1: on your local member.

550
00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 3: Yeah it look, it's so this is the point about stoicism.

551
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 3: He's you're sitting there saying I just got to take it.

552
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:21,560
Speaker 3: But I think we can do better than this.

553
00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,520
Speaker 1: I think our stism as do you think our stoicism

554
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: has somehow worked against us in some respects because you know,

555
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: like yah as you're talking about farmers, you know, like

556
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,560
Speaker 1: it's raining, it's going to flood, or it's drought. It's look,

557
00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 1: I can't do much about it, but I'm going to

558
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:36,240
Speaker 1: hang in there. I'm just going to keep going. So

559
00:27:36,400 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: do you think that sort of has sort of filtered

560
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: its way into people in small businesses generally I can't

561
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: do any about it. I'm just going to steep stick

562
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,199
Speaker 1: with it.

563
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:44,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a double edged sword.

564
00:27:44,560 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 3: On the one hand, the people who you just say,

565
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:48,800
Speaker 3: and I don't know how you get up it each

566
00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 3: morning and do what you're doing when you're up against

567
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 3: it the way you're up against it. And it's incredible

568
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 3: thing that has sustained so many Australian businesses and so

569
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,119
Speaker 3: much of our economy over and helped us to be

570
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 3: so successful. The flip side is sometimes I think we

571
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 3: don't push back and say, hang on, that's not good enough.

572
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,879
Speaker 3: We can do better than this. We need government to

573
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:12,159
Speaker 3: do better than this, and I think at the moment,

574
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:15,040
Speaker 3: the thing I see, which is very very clear, is

575
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 3: so many Australians just feeling.

576
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:21,200
Speaker 2: Like it's just too hard. It's just, you know, I'm.

577
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,879
Speaker 3: Losing a people who are trying to start a business

578
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 3: or build a business, people who are wanting to buy

579
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:31,280
Speaker 3: a home and pay off their home. It just it

580
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 3: just feels like you're up against them. Especially well, I

581
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,840
Speaker 3: think that's right, and I mean if you're I talk

582
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 3: to a lot of people who are parents or even

583
00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 3: grandparents who run a small business and I say, so

584
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 3: your kids or your grandkids going to come into the

585
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:52,000
Speaker 3: small business, going to come back to the farm. And

586
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 3: I think, you know, they'll go and get a job

587
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:57,120
Speaker 3: where I live, you know, in Gulben and where I

588
00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 3: grew up at Nimityville. Now they so often we'll say,

589
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 3: now I'm going to go into the public service.

590
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: Now.

591
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 3: We want great people in our public service. No question

592
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 3: about default. What's that You don't want it as a default,

593
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 3: You don't want it as a default. You need people

594
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,080
Speaker 3: who are prepared to go out and have a crack

595
00:29:14,160 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 3: and have a go. And if we lose hope, I

596
00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 3: think we lose what we are. So the number one

597
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 3: reason for me to be in politics and to be

598
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:26,360
Speaker 3: doing what I am now is to restore that hope,

599
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 3: to give to give Australia as the opportunities I've had,

600
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 3: because I feel like I have had opportunities like almost

601
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:34,720
Speaker 3: no other humans in history.

602
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: I mean, it's been unbelievable for my generation.

603
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,600
Speaker 3: But if our next generation don't have that, I've got

604
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 3: full kids, I think that's that that would be just

605
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:45,520
Speaker 3: an astrocious outcome.

606
00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 1: And so you're entry into politics. I don't know, but

607
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: how long you have been in politics now?

608
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:52,480
Speaker 2: Yeah? Twelve years?

609
00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:56,560
Speaker 1: Twelve years, So there's relatively you would like in a

610
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,520
Speaker 1: promen your forties or something when you want it exceed.

611
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 1: You have ended politics in your forty six? Was it

612
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 1: off the back of ok, I made some money. Maybe

613
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 1: I've got kids, who got a wife, got house. Now's

614
00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: my time to pay back? I mean, what was the deal?

615
00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was a big element of that. So your

616
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 3: parents about Yeah, well, so my mom died when I

617
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:20,360
Speaker 3: was quite young. So and that was another part of

618
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 3: kind of growing up on a farm, which was you

619
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 3: know that was that was a really big event obviously

620
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:31,680
Speaker 3: for my family. But my dad had been involved in

621
00:30:31,760 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 3: farming representations, so he was. He ultimately became president of

622
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:38,360
Speaker 3: the New Southwest Farmers and vice president of the National

623
00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 3: Farmers and he was probably on a path that being

624
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 3: president of the National Farmers Federation when mum got cancer

625
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 3: and he just pulled back. You know, this is again,

626
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 3: this is the tailor loyalty. He just said, not all

627
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,480
Speaker 3: of that is secondary. I'm not doing that now. I'm

628
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:55,520
Speaker 3: going to focus on family. And he did and she

629
00:30:55,680 --> 00:31:00,320
Speaker 3: died not long long afterwards. But he was He was

630
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:03,960
Speaker 3: always interested in politics because it affected us when you're

631
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:06,880
Speaker 3: around the kitchen table on a farm. I mean, back

632
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 3: in those days there was a collapse in the wool price.

633
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 3: There was a floor price scheme for the will price sector.

634
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:14,840
Speaker 3: But what governments did, and at the time it was

635
00:31:14,880 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 3: the Hawk government had a huge impact on us and

636
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,400
Speaker 3: so it was around the kitchen table. So that's probably

637
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:24,320
Speaker 3: where I got interested in it. And yeah, so the

638
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,800
Speaker 3: opportunity came up mid forties. Financially, I was in a

639
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:31,880
Speaker 3: reasonable position because I'd worked hard over over the years

640
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: leading up to that and got us to a point

641
00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 3: where I could take a risk. And Bill Hefferton was

642
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 3: probably the key person who knew my family and knew

643
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,040
Speaker 3: me and had met my wife, who was again girl

644
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:52,120
Speaker 3: from the country from out west, the Dubbo and we

645
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 3: met at Sydney University. On your parents Yeah, well yeah, exactly.

646
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: You know, he's just like exactly right. And Bill Bills

647
00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:04,040
Speaker 3: sort of said Albie Schultz, who was the member for

648
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 3: Hume was retiring.

649
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 2: You said you should run, and just like that, Yeah,

650
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:10,120
Speaker 2: I was. That was pretty much it.

651
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,760
Speaker 3: That was pretty much shit hat in the ring. Obviously

652
00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 3: I had to go through the pre selection all of that.

653
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: But what what what what do you do when that happens,

654
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: when some of the Bill having taps on the show

655
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,080
Speaker 1: is obviously a bit of a legend in the Liberal Party,

656
00:32:24,640 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: a legend Liberal Party and a bit of one and

657
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,080
Speaker 1: taps on the shoulders sort of effectively anointing you in

658
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: some respects. Mate, you know, I think you could do this.

659
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: Why you have put yourself a preselection? What is the

660
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: process of some of like gang starters? You go and

661
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 1: talk to your dad, do you go and talk to

662
00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,160
Speaker 1: your brothers, do you obviously talk to you your wife?

663
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 3: What?

664
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,840
Speaker 1: What? What? What happens in those situations? I've often wondered

665
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,200
Speaker 1: about that, How someone makes the decision do they make

666
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: it on their own do they make it in in

667
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: relation to everybody else's around them?

668
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, so the answer is all of the above for

669
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 3: me at least. First, my wife, who was interested in politics.

670
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,760
Speaker 3: So we met. She did law and we work together

671
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:03,040
Speaker 3: at law school and in Phillip Street. And we're both

672
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 3: country kids, so we had enormous amount in common obviously,

673
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:10,959
Speaker 3: and she was interested in politics. I think it wouldn't

674
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 3: have been possible without that, right, And she's always been

675
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:21,440
Speaker 3: she's actively written on political issues for many years, and

676
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 3: so yeah, her support was important, and so we made

677
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,960
Speaker 3: the decision and away we went. It was a big

678
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 3: change of life, big change of life for my kids too.

679
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 3: They were young at the time, my four kids. You know,

680
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,239
Speaker 3: it's not easy for kids of politicians.

681
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: I have to say, especially as I get older.

682
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, although they've been unbelievable, I have to I mean, really,

683
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 3: I'm so proud of them. So their age from twenty

684
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,040
Speaker 3: five down to nineteen. And you've got boys and girls,

685
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 3: tour of each, two of each. That was good, well done,

686
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 3: Your wife was done, well done.

687
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:56,640
Speaker 1: Good. So you've got four kids, you've decided you go

688
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 1: into politics, you know, obviously I mean one of the

689
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:01,400
Speaker 1: things I've often thought. I've often thought about, So how

690
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:06,080
Speaker 1: do you and I see that Peter got a little

691
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: bit of criticism about this recently, but how do you

692
00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: put yourself in a position where I'm going to go

693
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: from living in my nice, comfortable home here in Goldvin

694
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:18,400
Speaker 1: or wherever you were living at a time, to spending

695
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,600
Speaker 1: six months of the year in aggregate in the Mothership

696
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:22,200
Speaker 1: in Canberra.

697
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, well, remember that I'd had work all

698
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:30,319
Speaker 3: my career where I'd been traveling. Yeah, that was I

699
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 3: could have been based anywhere, it didn't matter. I was

700
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 3: traveling all the time, and so I was used to

701
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:40,959
Speaker 3: having to make sure I got home and had family time.

702
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 3: And you know, I've probably never been as good at

703
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 3: it as I should have been. And you always look

704
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 3: back at being a parent and think you could have

705
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 3: done a better job. I think, but I'm my kids

706
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:54,879
Speaker 3: have handled it so well, and you know, I'm very

707
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,759
Speaker 3: proud that they've been able to do that.

708
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: So you're you're in a in Campbell when I call

709
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,959
Speaker 1: the Mothership and you have to bump shoulders, you're bumping

710
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:06,720
Speaker 1: basically bump your shoulders with everybody. I mean, both sides

711
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: of the of the of the room. What's it like

712
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: to tell us what, one minute, you could be in

713
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: the bear pit they're ripping into your opposite number, or

714
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: alternatively copping it from your opposite number, which happens. But

715
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: then it's all over and you're walking down the island

716
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,200
Speaker 1: maybe wherever you stay. You might be going out and

717
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: have a bite a bit but meal and you might

718
00:35:29,520 --> 00:35:34,040
Speaker 1: bump into doctor jin Chumers. What happens to those situations?

719
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: I mean I do and does it get does it

720
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:38,160
Speaker 1: get personal?

721
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:46,280
Speaker 3: Look, I think when the boundary that most politicians really

722
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 3: take exception too, is it when it gets to family.

723
00:35:48,719 --> 00:35:50,879
Speaker 3: And certainly that's for me and maybe this is part

724
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 3: of my loyalty thing. I think that's where it gets

725
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,840
Speaker 3: really difficult. And occasionally in politics that does happen. And

726
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 3: that's when you say no, that's not we're not We're

727
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 3: not that's not acceptable outside of that. Look, it's it's

728
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 3: rough and tumble, you know. That's the nature of politics.

729
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,640
Speaker 3: It's an adversarial system. Our political system is designed that

730
00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 3: way from the start, and whilst lots of people think

731
00:36:13,640 --> 00:36:16,160
Speaker 3: it can somehow be different from that, that's what it is.

732
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:18,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, the opposition means you oppose.

733
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:21,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, and an opposition is tough because you are opposing

734
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:24,799
Speaker 3: and that's your job.

735
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 2: That is actually your job.

736
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:28,480
Speaker 3: You've got you've got to be holding the government to

737
00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:30,800
Speaker 3: account because if you're not holding the government to account,

738
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 3: who's going to And the Australian people only get to

739
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 3: to hear about things that the government is doing that

740
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 3: perhaps they shouldn't be doing because you're prepared to voice it.

741
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:44,360
Speaker 3: So it's a really important role in our system. But

742
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 3: it's a tough role and you know, occasionally it does

743
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 3: get quite quite brutal in the in the pit. But look,

744
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:55,320
Speaker 3: I've also had very good friends.

745
00:36:55,080 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: Across the aisle in politics, and that does happen. I

746
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 2: worry it habits listening used to make really, yeah.

747
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 3: I do.

748
00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,880
Speaker 1: It's not a thing where off the what's on the

749
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 1: fields on the field, what's off the fields.

750
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 3: Of Look, that's I certainly try to keep it that way,

751
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,799
Speaker 3: and I guess it's partly because I've played a lot

752
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 3: of sport. That's the right way. It's too yeah, it's

753
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 3: the Australian way. It's not always true that way. I

754
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:20,919
Speaker 3: think it's become more tribal. In my twelve years, it's

755
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,320
Speaker 3: definitely become more tribal, and I don't think that's a

756
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 3: good thing. But that doesn't stop you having friends across

757
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,360
Speaker 3: the isle. I mean, Joel fits given and I for instance,

758
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,839
Speaker 3: you know we do it to gb SEC segment every

759
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:35,839
Speaker 3: day on a Friday for years, and you know we've

760
00:37:35,920 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 3: been very close friends right throughout and I tell you

761
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 3: we'd give it to each other on that set. But

762
00:37:40,719 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 3: it was from a point of respect and.

763
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: You can more debate.

764
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:46,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was debate. It's not personal, nah, exactly right.

765
00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,760
Speaker 1: So because you know, obviously watching this current election process

766
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 1: as it's unfolding, and it's done to little personal to me.

767
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I got to say, which I'm surprised that.

768
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't think I had the promise is sitting

769
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: there a month ago, so and I have Peter sitting

770
00:38:04,719 --> 00:38:08,040
Speaker 1: there as well, But I didn't think Alba would go

771
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 1: that way. But it looks like it's getting pretty personal

772
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: now and I.

773
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,560
Speaker 2: Think it is, and I don't like that.

774
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,440
Speaker 1: Are we importing something? I mean, they're importing American politics

775
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 1: to Australia because it looks more like a presidential election

776
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: to me than I've ever seen before. And it looks

777
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 1: and you know this, you loading up Peter Dutton with

778
00:38:29,120 --> 00:38:33,000
Speaker 1: the Trump thing, Like, I mean, I know Trump, you know,

779
00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: I know him. He was you know, he came here

780
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: to Australia. I spent time with hmen their PREENTI was

781
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:41,080
Speaker 1: on Peter's nothing like Trump. Are going to sure anyone listen,

782
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,520
Speaker 1: Peter Dutton is nothing like Donald Trump. I mean maybe

783
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 1: they're both conservatives in terms of politics perhaps, but even

784
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 1: conservatives here, conservatives is different. Peter Dutton is nothing like

785
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 1: Donald Trump. He is a quiet, reserved, thoughtful, thoughtful, yeah,

786
00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 1: thoughtful person. He is quite economical in the way he speaks.

787
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: He doesn't just throw stuff out there. And I'm not

788
00:39:08,120 --> 00:39:10,399
Speaker 1: going to sort of opine on Donald Trump, but I'm

789
00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,880
Speaker 1: just saying he's different, totally different. But this labeling of

790
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: you guys as Trump, like, I find it like it's

791
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 1: like they're trying to label you with the worst aspects

792
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:28,080
Speaker 1: of the Trump regime as it currently exists. And it's

793
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:31,319
Speaker 1: sort of like it's like playing a different set by

794
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:32,439
Speaker 1: a set differen set of rules.

795
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's just it's nonsense and it's very politically.

796
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 3: But the important thing for me is, you know, I

797
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 3: went into politics because I want to fight for the

798
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,879
Speaker 3: issues that I care about, and it's all the issues

799
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:47,440
Speaker 3: we've been talking about. It's hard working Australians getting your head,

800
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:50,279
Speaker 3: giving it, making sure that they get an opportunity to

801
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 3: have a real crack in business, owning a home, and

802
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:56,680
Speaker 3: that the circumstances are right for that. We need to

803
00:39:56,719 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 3: have lower energy prices, we need to make sure that

804
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 3: inflation and out of control. We need to make sure

805
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 3: that interest rates are coming down so Australians can get ahead. Look,

806
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 3: and that's what I'm interested in. And you know, I

807
00:40:10,239 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 3: worry that our politics is moving away from those those

808
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 3: key issues. If it's if it's getting to personal attacks

809
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 3: the whole time. I mean, really, I don't think anyone

810
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 3: ultimately wins out of that, but we are seeing some

811
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 3: of that, and it's it's unfortunate.

812
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 2: I think all we can do, in the.

813
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 3: Tradition of the Stoics, when you're faced with those circumstances,

814
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 3: it's just focused on the stuff that matter marks and

815
00:40:35,080 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 3: that's what I try to do every day. That's why

816
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: I'm in politics. It's not playing political games that I'm

817
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:40,960
Speaker 3: interested in.

818
00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 1: So you're shadow treasurer, what is there that in that portfolio.

819
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,560
Speaker 1: I much just ask you just small business. Is there

820
00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: a ministry for small business?

821
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: There is, Susan Lee has that.

822
00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,840
Speaker 3: But obviously the economy is incredibly important to small b

823
00:41:00,080 --> 00:41:02,640
Speaker 3: Does it come under truth with that, Well, no, it's separate,

824
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 3: separate poles. But I would say a very substantial part

825
00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 3: of our focus is on making sure the environment is

826
00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 3: right for small business to succeed.

827
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,440
Speaker 1: Right, so as in the macro and the micro environment.

828
00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,919
Speaker 1: And we're talking about interest rates, cost of power, they're

829
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: the two big ones, particularly a cost of power. And

830
00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: I noticed in the Dunton's reply to the Treasurer's budget

831
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:32,479
Speaker 1: last week he talked about gas reservation. Does and gas

832
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,640
Speaker 1: reservation just for those people listening, just means basically, somehow

833
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: making sure that we park some of the gas that

834
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 1: we produce in order to make sure that we don't

835
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:42,800
Speaker 1: pay more for it than anybody else pace for it,

836
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,200
Speaker 1: which we're not buying from overseas, which we're not exploring

837
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,720
Speaker 1: it isn't the buying it back. So but what actually

838
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 1: does the Liberal Party have in mind in terms of

839
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: getting the price of electricity down?

840
00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, in the short term, it's exactly what you

841
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 3: were describing we're one of the biggest gas exporters.

842
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:04,520
Speaker 2: In the world.

843
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 3: We create gas reserves, we created the liquified natural gas

844
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:10,520
Speaker 3: export business in the world.

845
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 2: It was us.

846
00:42:11,120 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 3: This was an Australian it This is another incredible story

847
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:18,280
Speaker 3: of what Australians have done. We created that industry. Qatar

848
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:20,200
Speaker 3: and the United States have followed us, and we're the

849
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 3: three big exporters in the world.

850
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:22,759
Speaker 2: And so.

851
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:27,000
Speaker 3: This policy is about saying, Okay, we're a good exporter,

852
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,839
Speaker 3: but we've got to make sure we've got enough gas

853
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:33,759
Speaker 3: here for Australians so that we're not paying more for

854
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 3: our energy than we should be. And you've got to remember,

855
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,319
Speaker 3: of course, gas doesn't just affect the price of gas.

856
00:42:40,760 --> 00:42:43,839
Speaker 3: It affects the price of electricity because gas is really

857
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,799
Speaker 3: important in generating electricity. It affects the price of food

858
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 3: because it drives the fertilizer price, which is the single

859
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:54,919
Speaker 3: biggest input into your food costs and many other things

860
00:42:55,040 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 3: that delivery cost, all the refrigeration, everything. So driving down

861
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 3: the price of of gas is really important to making

862
00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 3: sure we've got affordable energy and that we beat inflation

863
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 3: in this country. There's a simple way to do it,

864
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 3: which is just to say there's got to be enough

865
00:43:11,239 --> 00:43:15,520
Speaker 3: gas that stays in Australia and is for Australia. So

866
00:43:15,920 --> 00:43:18,439
Speaker 3: Australian gas working for Australians.

867
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: As opposed to going off overseas, being liquified and being

868
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:21,840
Speaker 1: shipped back to Australia.

869
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so you know.

870
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 3: There's always a temptation for a big exporter to say, look,

871
00:43:27,200 --> 00:43:28,840
Speaker 3: if I can get a price of twenty dollars in

872
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:32,040
Speaker 3: Japan and ten dollars in Australia, I'll sell it to Japan.

873
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:34,879
Speaker 3: Well we're saying no, we need to make sure we've

874
00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,719
Speaker 3: got enough here. The exporters can make good money out

875
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:39,239
Speaker 3: of selling to their customers and we want them to

876
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 3: do that. That's good for our country. But we've got

877
00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:43,560
Speaker 3: to first of all make sure there's enough gas for Australians.

878
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 3: So that's the first and most important thing we can

879
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,319
Speaker 3: do to bring down the price. We've got to make

880
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,800
Speaker 3: sure our call fire power stations don't leave the market

881
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:54,239
Speaker 3: before we've got replacement, and over time we've got to

882
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 3: replace them with base nuclear generators. And if we want

883
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 3: to have industry in this country, if we want to

884
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 3: have manufacturing, data centers, those big baseload users of power

885
00:44:05,120 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 3: that are important to job creation and prosperity as a country.

886
00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:13,359
Speaker 3: Then we've got to have baseload power that's traditionally been coal.

887
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,080
Speaker 3: Renewables alone won't cut it. They can play a role,

888
00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,440
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong, but they're not alone going to

889
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 3: be enough to be able to support that baseload industry.

890
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 3: And so that's why the nuclear generators are so important.

891
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:33,200
Speaker 1: I think a lot of listeners are not that well

892
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: versed in exactly what you're talking about, and if it

893
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,120
Speaker 1: might just bring down then you can help me out

894
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:41,040
Speaker 1: here if you don't mind. But first and most point

895
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:44,400
Speaker 1: things you said data centers, which, as you know, because

896
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: we use everything, all our various devices all the time,

897
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: particularly you know with the advent of artificial intelligence, which

898
00:44:51,400 --> 00:44:53,600
Speaker 1: is basically is not just using such a beause artificial

899
00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: intelligence is everywhere. It's it's on Netflix. Netflix is using

900
00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: it to tell you what you might want to watch.

901
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: So there's artificial intelligence all around us. But as a

902
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,480
Speaker 1: result of that, there's these massive data centers, which you know,

903
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,840
Speaker 1: we don't actually have any data in the cloud. They

904
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:09,840
Speaker 1: call it cloud, but it's actually the data is not

905
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: sitting in my office but it's now sitting in a

906
00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: data center. But data centers need refrigeration because they're very

907
00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:21,520
Speaker 1: hot places and they are extraordinarily big consumers of power.

908
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:24,880
Speaker 1: And as we build, as we become greater users of

909
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,680
Speaker 1: artificial intelligence, which is important for us to be productive

910
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:29,880
Speaker 1: and better what we do and keep up with the

911
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:31,839
Speaker 1: rest of the world, we're going to have much many

912
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:34,319
Speaker 1: more data centers here, or maybe overly, but we're definitely

913
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 1: going to have me here as well. Austraight as a

914
00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: great place of data centers. Already, we need enough power

915
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:44,640
Speaker 1: to power our homes, officers and our data centers and

916
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 1: anything else that might want to use power. So that's

917
00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:47,680
Speaker 1: your baseload, yep.

918
00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 3: And if you don't have that power, they go to

919
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 3: another country and they will go somewhere and something is

920
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:55,319
Speaker 3: going to cost much more.

921
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:57,960
Speaker 1: It's going to cost us as consumers more so because

922
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 1: we're going to be importing it. So you need basically

923
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,120
Speaker 1: the basel which you're talking about is gasp is also

924
00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: coal powered, quite coal fire powered for the right words,

925
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 1: power production, for energy, for electricity. That's your base lad now.

926
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,480
Speaker 1: Over time, and everybody's gone bananas on this nuclear thing.

927
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 1: It's not gonna happen next year. But it's an overtime thing,

928
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:24,880
Speaker 1: you know. Nuclear is a thing you can do over time, Yes,

929
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: exactly as but you're right now, you have to we

930
00:46:28,680 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: have to use what we currently got. That's coal and gas, that's.

931
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 2: Right, that's right, and renewables.

932
00:46:34,239 --> 00:46:37,480
Speaker 1: I mean that I'm definitely not really out renewables. It'd

933
00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: be great if renewables were the thing, you know, like,

934
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: but like it's just not going to happen.

935
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:45,319
Speaker 3: You know, energy systems throughout history have always worked better

936
00:46:45,360 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 3: when they've got balance, you've got a range of different

937
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,880
Speaker 3: fuel sources because you know, coal works particularly well for

938
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 3: customers that are there twenty four to seven and sixty

939
00:46:57,080 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 3: five days a year, right Whereas you know, if you're

940
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,279
Speaker 3: only using power during the day and you stick some

941
00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 3: solo cells on the roof, fight works fine. It depends

942
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,400
Speaker 3: on the customer. The problem is if we don't have

943
00:47:09,560 --> 00:47:12,600
Speaker 3: that base load power, which is what nuclear generators give

944
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:16,239
Speaker 3: us over time, and we need coal in the short

945
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,320
Speaker 3: term and gas as well, then then you lose a

946
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,440
Speaker 3: big part of that customer base from Australia, they'll go overseas.

947
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,919
Speaker 1: What's the big deal? Why is we getting all weird

948
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 1: about it, Like, I mean, what about this nulest what's well?

949
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 3: I think because the Labor Party is campaigned against it,

950
00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:33,920
Speaker 3: but one, he has been campaigning against it since he

951
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:35,160
Speaker 3: was teenager.

952
00:47:35,239 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: No, but what about us voters? I mean, like, if

953
00:47:37,120 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: we understand the proposition, the thesis and the hypothesis that

954
00:47:41,520 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 1: we need base power and we need what is these

955
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:50,399
Speaker 1: days technologically relatively safe systems, which is happening around the world,

956
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: why are Australians against this?

957
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,840
Speaker 3: Well, I think Chris Bowen and others have been telling

958
00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:57,719
Speaker 3: them a story that you can do it all with

959
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,680
Speaker 3: renewables alone, and you can't. And you know, we know

960
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,200
Speaker 3: this already, we're seeing it. And just look at your

961
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 3: electricity bills and you know that here's the extraordinary thing

962
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 3: that people, a lot of people don't realize about the

963
00:48:10,640 --> 00:48:13,000
Speaker 3: last three years since Labor has been in power, there's

964
00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:17,640
Speaker 3: been no material reduction in emissions in Australia. So here

965
00:48:17,719 --> 00:48:20,160
Speaker 3: he is saying it's all going to be renewables only.

966
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 3: We're going to have be eighty ten two percent renewables

967
00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:27,719
Speaker 3: in our grid in a few short years. And you

968
00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:31,439
Speaker 3: know he's pumping that alone. He's making it difficult for gas,

969
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:36,920
Speaker 3: difficult for cold, certainly for nuclear. And meanwhile prices are

970
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:38,879
Speaker 3: going up and emissions aren't coming down.

971
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,799
Speaker 2: It is not working. It's just not working. And that's why.

972
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 3: That's why there's a better alternative. He's telling them, He's

973
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 3: telling them it is working. I think Australians are switching

974
00:48:49,239 --> 00:48:50,959
Speaker 3: on to this. I think they know it's not working.

975
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:54,480
Speaker 1: I don't understand, though, why is he so against nuclear.

976
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:56,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I like the idea of all the alternative

977
00:48:56,760 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: sourcely you know, solar and wind. It's great, all of them.

978
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: I like all of them. And one will emerge is

979
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,240
Speaker 1: the one that underpins everything. But and all I'm interested

980
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,239
Speaker 1: in is getting power to Australians at the right price,

981
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:16,680
Speaker 1: so we're not suffering from inflation driven by high energy input.

982
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:20,759
Speaker 1: Because everyone keep saying, you know your electricity bill at home,

983
00:49:21,160 --> 00:49:23,680
Speaker 1: it's not about that. Sure, my electricity bill's gone up.

984
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: Everyone's electricity bills are gone up at home. But guess what,

985
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: every single thing you pay for the cost more money

986
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,160
Speaker 1: be input into that extra cost as the cost of

987
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:36,360
Speaker 1: producer producing that thing that you're buying. Exactly like you know,

988
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,120
Speaker 1: every service station that you buy a petform has got

989
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: power and they have to pay the power bills. Every

990
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:44,640
Speaker 1: television station has got power that pays the power bills.

991
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:46,000
Speaker 1: All the power bills are gone up, not just at

992
00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:47,719
Speaker 1: your home, but they've gone it not just domestic, they've

993
00:49:47,719 --> 00:49:50,400
Speaker 1: gone up everywhere and we have to address this issue.

994
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 1: I know social portfolio, but from a macroeconomic point of view,

995
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 1: I just do not get why what the big deal

996
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,359
Speaker 1: is with us exploring other alternatives.

997
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 3: Actually think a lot of Australians are where you're at,

998
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,760
Speaker 3: which is that they are saying, well, we should explore

999
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,640
Speaker 3: these alternatives. There is a group that you remember well

1000
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,919
Speaker 3: from the past who have been against nuclear from back

1001
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 3: in the seventies, you know when we had the Nuclear

1002
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:20,200
Speaker 3: Disarmament Party and all of that. Peter Garran and Albernize.

1003
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 3: Let's be clear, he was part of that. He was

1004
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 3: absolutely part of that kind of movement and so he's

1005
00:50:26,040 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 3: never going to change.

1006
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:27,879
Speaker 2: And Bowen is the same.

1007
00:50:28,040 --> 00:50:30,839
Speaker 1: But does he have so much pain with their party

1008
00:50:30,920 --> 00:50:34,480
Speaker 1: to run the run the show and say listen, I've

1009
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 1: always believed in this. I didn't give a damn what's

1010
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 1: better for everybody.

1011
00:50:36,880 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 2: But there's people in the Labor Party. I'm in the

1012
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 2: Australian Workers.

1013
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:42,360
Speaker 3: Union, for instance, has always been pro pro nuclear, progas.

1014
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:45,919
Speaker 3: But you know this is this is where the Labour

1015
00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:47,640
Speaker 3: Party is at now. I think it's a big mistake.

1016
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:52,600
Speaker 3: They have now embraced nuclear submarines of course for Australia,

1017
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:56,240
Speaker 3: which of course means that we're going to have nuclear generators,

1018
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:57,880
Speaker 3: because that's what you got in the nuclear submarine and

1019
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:01,440
Speaker 3: nuclear generator. It's a small modular reactor in our ports

1020
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:02,520
Speaker 3: and running around.

1021
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,880
Speaker 1: What's the difference in having a nuclear generator in a

1022
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:08,799
Speaker 1: submarine nucleus in our port and will and going wherever

1023
00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,120
Speaker 1: it happens to be we're going to hang out and

1024
00:51:11,239 --> 00:51:14,040
Speaker 1: then and not having one, for example in dubble A

1025
00:51:14,080 --> 00:51:14,560
Speaker 1: great question.

1026
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,439
Speaker 3: It's a great question, and of course that's the question

1027
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,680
Speaker 3: that they've never answered. And this is what worries me

1028
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 3: is the quality of the debate on this. From what

1029
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 3: we've seen from the government, from Albernisi and his team,

1030
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,960
Speaker 3: I think he has been atrocious. But they're more interested

1031
00:51:32,040 --> 00:51:35,560
Speaker 3: in scare campaigns and politics than I think they are

1032
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 3: in the real policy. But I think we can win

1033
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 3: this debate. I think it's incredibly important. I think Australians

1034
00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 3: are seeing that what the government's doing right now is

1035
00:51:45,160 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 3: not working, and I think they're up for alternatives and

1036
00:51:48,239 --> 00:51:49,200
Speaker 3: that's what we're putting forward.

1037
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,600
Speaker 1: Talking about a debate, I saw Jim doctor Jim put

1038
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:54,920
Speaker 1: up a I think it was a post one X

1039
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: or somewhere like that, or somewhere somewhere someone said something

1040
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: that you won't debate him. So if he calls for

1041
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:05,960
Speaker 1: a debate for.

1042
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:11,080
Speaker 3: It, no, Look, I have offered to debate him twenty

1043
00:52:11,160 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 3: six times in this parliament and he walks out of

1044
00:52:15,920 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 3: the parliament every time. He's not interested. He's not interested.

1045
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,600
Speaker 3: Now he seems terribly interested. Of course I will, and

1046
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 3: we're having one next week and we'll do more. Yeah, yeah, Look,

1047
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:30,960
Speaker 3: I'm happy to debate this bloke anytime, because at the

1048
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:34,840
Speaker 3: end of the day, whatever you might think about Jim Chalmers,

1049
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:38,800
Speaker 3: he is not someone who's grown up in the economy,

1050
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:43,160
Speaker 3: deep in the economy and understood the pain that Australians

1051
00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 3: are feeling at the front line in small businesses as

1052
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 3: they're buying a house right now. And I think he's

1053
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:54,239
Speaker 3: disconnected from that. I think he's out of touch and

1054
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 3: I think he's out of his depth. I mean, he's

1055
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 3: come up through the political ranks as a staffer. That's

1056
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 3: his background. His his his degree was in his PhD

1057
00:53:04,960 --> 00:53:07,800
Speaker 3: was was in communications, not economics, and he likes to

1058
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:10,520
Speaker 3: call himself doctor chums. I just don't think he really

1059
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 3: has an understanding of what makes an economy tick. And

1060
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:18,640
Speaker 3: I'm doing this because I think we've got to make

1061
00:53:18,719 --> 00:53:21,600
Speaker 3: our economy work better for Australians, and I think we can,

1062
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:24,760
Speaker 3: but I don't think the Labor Party has understood what's needed.

1063
00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:30,680
Speaker 1: So infation and interest rates and and their their their

1064
00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:35,040
Speaker 1: connectivity the r b A and And it's interesting where

1065
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,040
Speaker 1: we're talking today because today is you know, so called

1066
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:42,160
Speaker 1: Trump's Liberation Day, his you know, his day that I

1067
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 1: don't know what liberation Day means, but it's the day

1068
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:48,399
Speaker 1: that he announceds tarists all around the world. Of course,

1069
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:50,879
Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank governor came out on Tuesday this week.

1070
00:53:51,360 --> 00:53:55,880
Speaker 1: We're quite worried about well, not quite worried. She looked perplexed.

1071
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:58,520
Speaker 1: I don't mean in a defeat this way, but it

1072
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,600
Speaker 1: perplexed as to what they outcome of the tariff's globally

1073
00:54:01,680 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: going to do to Australia in particular. It could either

1074
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,399
Speaker 1: be deflationary, or it could be around the other way,

1075
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,880
Speaker 1: could cause a recession, could cause any number of things.

1076
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:11,479
Speaker 1: Since she doesn't know what to do, therefore she didn't

1077
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:17,040
Speaker 1: change rates. How do and everyone knows the response of

1078
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,640
Speaker 1: Trump if you stand up to him, because we've seen

1079
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: what he does. He says, I'm going to increase it

1080
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:26,840
Speaker 1: in fifty percent. Albanezy doesn't seem to have said anything

1081
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 1: about anything. I haven't seen anything get in the media.

1082
00:54:30,880 --> 00:54:34,440
Speaker 1: How does I hope he doesn't say yesterday that he

1083
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:38,600
Speaker 1: would fight for Australia. Do we run a risk of

1084
00:54:39,560 --> 00:54:42,040
Speaker 1: doing what happened when Scott Morrison was out around and

1085
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:46,040
Speaker 1: China punished us forever when Scott stood up and sort

1086
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: of blamed them for a COVID or where he called

1087
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:49,719
Speaker 1: for an investigation. It wasn't that bad, but he called

1088
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:51,840
Speaker 1: from investigation but of China a sort of thing that

1089
00:54:52,120 --> 00:54:55,640
Speaker 1: what happened in Wilkhan. Do we run a risk that

1090
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 1: if we stand up to Trump that it could backfire.

1091
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, Look, it's a great question.

1092
00:55:00,880 --> 00:55:03,640
Speaker 3: But I think the starting point here is as an

1093
00:55:03,680 --> 00:55:07,279
Speaker 3: export oriented country, as a country that has succeeded on

1094
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,640
Speaker 3: the back of getting access to markets around the world

1095
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:14,400
Speaker 3: for our agricultural products, for our mining products, our manufacturing products,

1096
00:55:14,440 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 3: our services. Increasingly, we want to get access to markets.

1097
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:21,800
Speaker 3: It's incredibly important. We should be fighting for that every

1098
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:24,919
Speaker 3: single day, particularly the US market. Yeah, and the US

1099
00:55:25,000 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 3: market is important, it's not, it's not. I mean the

1100
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,239
Speaker 3: Asian market of course has been the big growing market

1101
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:30,880
Speaker 3: for US over but it's still important.

1102
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:33,840
Speaker 1: If he punishes China, he punishes us.

1103
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:34,160
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1104
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:38,640
Speaker 3: And look, the truth is just right near where I live,

1105
00:55:38,640 --> 00:55:40,520
Speaker 3: there's a big abato ourselves, much of its meat, to

1106
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 3: the beef, to the to the United States. And we

1107
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,440
Speaker 3: need those markets and we should fight for them. The

1108
00:55:47,560 --> 00:55:50,160
Speaker 3: context with the United States is we are a close ally.

1109
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,399
Speaker 3: We have fought with him in war after war aft war,

1110
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:59,200
Speaker 3: and we are strongly aligned. Our people have deep chemistry

1111
00:55:59,239 --> 00:56:02,239
Speaker 3: and connection. We always get on with Americans. Sometimes they

1112
00:56:02,239 --> 00:56:04,000
Speaker 3: annoy us a bit, and we annoy them, I'm sure,

1113
00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 3: but we are close friends. And when you are close friends,

1114
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,359
Speaker 3: you can have frank discussions, and we should be having

1115
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,400
Speaker 3: frank discussions. We absolutely should be. I don't think we

1116
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:17,160
Speaker 3: should be holding back in saying that this is not acceptable.

1117
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:19,759
Speaker 3: We're not going to reciprocate and impose tariffs on you,

1118
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 3: but this is not what you do to friends, and

1119
00:56:23,120 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 3: I think it's quite right and proper that we do

1120
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,440
Speaker 3: that now. Frankly, I think Albinizi is frightening his own

1121
00:56:28,480 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 3: shadow when it comes to these things, whether it's the

1122
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 3: United States or China.

1123
00:56:32,040 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 2: I mean China.

1124
00:56:33,280 --> 00:56:36,279
Speaker 3: You know, we've got to warship off the coast of

1125
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:40,880
Speaker 3: the South Coast New South Wales. Seriously stand up and

1126
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:44,520
Speaker 3: stand for something. And it's true with the United States

1127
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,720
Speaker 3: as well. I think we should seek to be friends

1128
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,600
Speaker 3: with this administration wherever we can. But here's a difference

1129
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 3: and we should be strong on that.

1130
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: But how would it work work? Angus? I mean, I mean,

1131
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,959
Speaker 1: I see according to the newspaper he's recruited Green Norman

1132
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:03,200
Speaker 1: to go and trying to sort of do a deal,

1133
00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:05,680
Speaker 1: which I'd find I'd imagine Trump would say, what the

1134
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,920
Speaker 1: hell are you doing here to Greg? I should be

1135
00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:10,760
Speaker 1: talking to the Prime Minister.

1136
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:14,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, Greg's a great Australian. But at the end

1137
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 3: of the day, I think part of the problem here

1138
00:57:15,640 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 3: is the ambassador. You got to ask questions about Kevin

1139
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:21,480
Speaker 3: Rutt and whether he's doing what needs to be done,

1140
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:25,120
Speaker 3: and whether Albinizi is himself. Meanwhile, Charmers goes over there

1141
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:29,439
Speaker 3: a few weeks back. I guess the photo opportunity comes back,

1142
00:57:29,480 --> 00:57:33,320
Speaker 3: and of course nothing nothing nothing. I mean, I just

1143
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 3: I don't think they really understand how to deal with

1144
00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 3: this administration, which is to be clear, whether it's whether

1145
00:57:41,720 --> 00:57:44,400
Speaker 3: it's with China or with the United States. There's no

1146
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 3: point when you want to have an ongoing trading relationship

1147
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 3: with somebody. We want trading relationships with China and with

1148
00:57:51,360 --> 00:57:54,880
Speaker 3: the United States. You can't kill the lily. You've got

1149
00:57:54,920 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 3: to be straight with people and say, hey, this is acceptable.

1150
00:57:57,280 --> 00:57:58,240
Speaker 2: And this is not so.

1151
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:00,840
Speaker 1: Obviously we don't want and the tower for war. So

1152
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: with them. But do you think the experience of what

1153
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:07,720
Speaker 1: happened because with Morrison has actually made them a little

1154
00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:12,240
Speaker 1: bit gun shy? Because they might because I'm mean politically gunshy,

1155
00:58:12,320 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: because what I mean by that is the political fallout

1156
00:58:15,760 --> 00:58:19,080
Speaker 1: for Scott Morrison as a result of what China did

1157
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 1: to a lot of our farmers and all sorts of

1158
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: people I think would have been quite immense. And I

1159
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 1: think Alberan Eazy then liked the fact that he made

1160
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:33,200
Speaker 1: he made out that he bought, he brought that back

1161
00:58:33,240 --> 00:58:38,680
Speaker 1: into normality. He renormalized our relationship with China by sending

1162
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:40,400
Speaker 1: Penny Wong or whatever he did. However you did it,

1163
00:58:41,160 --> 00:58:42,880
Speaker 1: it does he is it a position that he looked.

1164
00:58:42,960 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 1: Last thing I want in this election is to do

1165
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:48,720
Speaker 1: before this election is to be making noise and have

1166
00:58:48,880 --> 00:58:50,240
Speaker 1: Donald Trump say something about me.

1167
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, but that's if that's right, and may well

1168
00:58:54,280 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 3: be that's a political judgment. Isn't the point you're playing politics.

1169
00:58:57,840 --> 00:59:00,480
Speaker 3: I mean, what we've always sought to do when it

1170
00:59:00,560 --> 00:59:07,080
Speaker 3: comes to foreign affairs and trade is not get weighed

1171
00:59:07,080 --> 00:59:09,160
Speaker 3: down by the short term politics. Do what's right for

1172
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 3: the country in the longer term. And of course you

1173
00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:14,800
Speaker 3: might pay a political price for that in.

1174
00:59:14,840 --> 00:59:15,440
Speaker 2: The short term.

1175
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:19,480
Speaker 3: But your job, if you're leading the country is to

1176
00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:22,640
Speaker 3: do what's right for the country over time. And I

1177
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,040
Speaker 3: think the right thing right now is to be fighting

1178
00:59:25,120 --> 00:59:29,400
Speaker 3: for access to those markets. Our farmers deserve it, manufacturers

1179
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 3: deserve it, everyone else who exports into these markets and

1180
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,080
Speaker 3: other markets deserves a government that's fighting for them.

1181
00:59:36,640 --> 00:59:40,000
Speaker 2: And we are not seeing that. And we should.

1182
00:59:40,440 --> 00:59:44,160
Speaker 1: And let's say that we achieve nothing. In other words,

1183
00:59:44,520 --> 00:59:47,960
Speaker 1: you know, nothing happens, and the tariffs will remain in place.

1184
00:59:50,080 --> 00:59:54,280
Speaker 1: What do you think prognosis in a prognosis sense could

1185
00:59:54,320 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 1: happen here to Australia. I mean, what are the sorts

1186
00:59:56,400 --> 00:59:59,720
Speaker 1: of scenarios that may be Treasury Department of Treasure is

1187
00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:03,280
Speaker 1: sharing with you as the shadow Treasure, Like, what are

1188
01:00:03,320 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: the sort of things that might come up? What are

1189
01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:07,240
Speaker 1: Australians what should we expect? Should we expect that when

1190
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:09,320
Speaker 1: all of Suddenmes's going to dumping all the cars here,

1191
01:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,040
Speaker 1: or we're going to get up a deflationary pressures because

1192
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:13,320
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff's going to come here from trying

1193
01:00:13,320 --> 01:00:16,640
Speaker 1: to really cheap because they've lost their American market. But

1194
01:00:16,760 --> 01:00:18,720
Speaker 1: as a result of they stop producing as much stuff.

1195
01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,720
Speaker 1: Therefore we won't be exporting as much stuff to America

1196
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,880
Speaker 1: and as a result that we have a GDP problem.

1197
01:00:24,440 --> 01:00:30,160
Speaker 3: You, the whole point is all of those realistic scenarios.

1198
01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:32,080
Speaker 3: I don't think anyone knows which one of them is

1199
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 3: going to be right. But the one point that is

1200
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:37,120
Speaker 3: clear is that we are living in a really uncertain world.

1201
01:00:37,800 --> 01:00:39,880
Speaker 3: And if that is the case, you've got to have

1202
01:00:39,920 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 3: an economy that is robust, that is resilient, and that

1203
01:00:43,160 --> 01:00:46,640
Speaker 3: is strong. If you're driving the deficit off a cliff.

1204
01:00:47,040 --> 01:00:50,600
Speaker 3: If you've pushed Australian household budgets to a point, whether

1205
01:00:50,640 --> 01:00:53,800
Speaker 3: they're at breaking point, then the capacity to absorb a

1206
01:00:53,920 --> 01:00:56,880
Speaker 3: shock is just not there. And this is what worries

1207
01:00:56,920 --> 01:00:59,000
Speaker 3: me most about the position we're in. We've just seen

1208
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,760
Speaker 3: a budget with reading as far as the I can

1209
01:01:01,840 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 3: sive one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars of interest

1210
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:09,520
Speaker 3: and debt by the end of the next term of parliament.

1211
01:01:09,560 --> 01:01:12,000
Speaker 3: On the current plan, there's no plan to get our

1212
01:01:12,040 --> 01:01:13,880
Speaker 3: standard of living back to where it was when we

1213
01:01:14,000 --> 01:01:17,040
Speaker 3: were asked in government until twenty thirty or twenty thirty one.

1214
01:01:17,320 --> 01:01:21,720
Speaker 3: A complete lost decade for Australians and that means that's

1215
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 3: bad in its own right, Mark, I mean that's a

1216
01:01:24,320 --> 01:01:26,800
Speaker 3: problem in its own right. But what makes it worse

1217
01:01:27,400 --> 01:01:29,960
Speaker 3: is when you're in that position, your capacity to absorb

1218
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,880
Speaker 3: a shock is just not there. I mean, people just

1219
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:37,840
Speaker 3: don't have the cash to handle another shock to their standard.

1220
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:41,280
Speaker 3: Orders government and orders government, and that's the point you've

1221
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,440
Speaker 3: got no shock absorbers left in the system. And that's

1222
01:01:44,520 --> 01:01:47,120
Speaker 3: where this government has taken us and it's why I

1223
01:01:47,160 --> 01:01:51,040
Speaker 3: think they've made a series of bad decisions without a

1224
01:01:51,120 --> 01:01:53,640
Speaker 3: focus on the need to rebuild, to get our standard

1225
01:01:53,680 --> 01:01:56,240
Speaker 3: of living back to where it should be, and to

1226
01:01:56,320 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 3: prepare government for the possibility, as there always is in time,

1227
01:02:00,000 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 3: shocks do come along. That's the nature of the world.

1228
01:02:02,880 --> 01:02:05,200
Speaker 3: Econogic shocks, yeah, exactly. But you've got to be ready

1229
01:02:05,240 --> 01:02:08,040
Speaker 3: for them. And this is something again, you know, perhaps

1230
01:02:08,080 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 3: it's me and my farming background. You're always going to

1231
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:14,040
Speaker 3: be farm You're always doing exactly, You're always ready. You

1232
01:02:14,120 --> 01:02:16,720
Speaker 3: know a drought's coming. One thing you know in a

1233
01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 3: good season is the droughts coming. One thing you know

1234
01:02:18,880 --> 01:02:21,720
Speaker 3: in a drought is going to end. But you've got

1235
01:02:21,760 --> 01:02:24,480
Speaker 3: to be ready for those shocks. And they can be

1236
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:26,520
Speaker 3: price shocks too, it can be all sorts of shocks.

1237
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:30,480
Speaker 3: But whatever it is, if your treasure, if your government

1238
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,440
Speaker 3: hasn't got your back on making sure we're ready for

1239
01:02:34,520 --> 01:02:36,560
Speaker 3: these sorts of things, then it's the problem.

1240
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,800
Speaker 1: So during COVID, as you know, we suffered a shock,

1241
01:02:39,880 --> 01:02:42,560
Speaker 1: and the shock was the COVID shop of the shock

1242
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:46,120
Speaker 1: was a drop in well for a short period of

1243
01:02:46,160 --> 01:02:49,080
Speaker 1: time anyway, there was a drop in employment because and

1244
01:02:49,240 --> 01:02:52,600
Speaker 1: the government under Morrison and Roinberg we had those job

1245
01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:55,320
Speaker 1: keeper payments et cetera. But a lot of the support

1246
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: in relation to dealing with the shock was coming from

1247
01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:01,000
Speaker 1: the government. Coffers is coming out to government. There's money

1248
01:03:01,040 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 1: coming from putting in infrastructure, but actually money going director

1249
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:11,320
Speaker 1: company into businesses. Give people money if you're running deficits

1250
01:03:11,960 --> 01:03:16,080
Speaker 1: for the future. It seems to me the only tool

1251
01:03:16,160 --> 01:03:20,600
Speaker 1: we have left in our artillery is either for government

1252
01:03:20,640 --> 01:03:23,040
Speaker 1: to give you know, we suffer an economic shock. If

1253
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 1: is for government to give people more money, or is

1254
01:03:26,520 --> 01:03:31,280
Speaker 1: to reduce taxes, or is to reduce interest rates. Fortunately,

1255
01:03:31,320 --> 01:03:34,200
Speaker 1: the Reserve Bank's done a great job are getting our

1256
01:03:34,240 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 1: interest rate up high, so that gives them plenty of

1257
01:03:37,800 --> 01:03:41,600
Speaker 1: leeway to reduce the rates. If we hadn't reduced increased

1258
01:03:41,640 --> 01:03:44,720
Speaker 1: rates from point one to where they are now, we

1259
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 1: would have lost a lot of our sort of ability

1260
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,760
Speaker 1: to rebuild the economy back through reducing interest rates. But

1261
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,120
Speaker 1: the big thing has always been austrated is our resource sector.

1262
01:03:55,560 --> 01:03:57,560
Speaker 1: And our resource sector pulled us through the GFC. Our

1263
01:03:57,600 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 1: resource sector pulled us through gathered a lot of more

1264
01:04:02,440 --> 01:04:06,280
Speaker 1: taxes for the government, which more revenue as a result

1265
01:04:06,280 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: of minusld of China. If China falls on his knees

1266
01:04:09,600 --> 01:04:11,240
Speaker 1: as a result of which is what it looks like

1267
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:13,920
Speaker 1: the tariff's are designed to do. It looks like it's

1268
01:04:14,080 --> 01:04:17,720
Speaker 1: directly pushing towards China. It goes everywhere, but it looks

1269
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,360
Speaker 1: like it's picking China out. We want to reduce this

1270
01:04:20,440 --> 01:04:22,800
Speaker 1: is I think as having America wants to reduce China's position.

1271
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: That'll affect us if we've got no surpluses. In fact,

1272
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:30,560
Speaker 1: we're running deficits. Does that worry you.

1273
01:04:30,720 --> 01:04:34,040
Speaker 2: It worries me enormously. I think this is exactly the point.

1274
01:04:34,120 --> 01:04:38,120
Speaker 3: I mean, the scenario where the Chinese economy doesn't get

1275
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:42,480
Speaker 3: access to markets that did so it goes backwards compared

1276
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 3: to where it would have, and we then lose an

1277
01:04:45,920 --> 01:04:50,320
Speaker 3: export market, not just through tariffs in the United States,

1278
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:54,240
Speaker 3: but indirectly through lots of markets to China. I think

1279
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:57,200
Speaker 3: it's a very dangerous situation for us because we're incredibly

1280
01:04:57,280 --> 01:05:00,240
Speaker 3: reliant on those revenues. I mean, here's the extraordinary thing.

1281
01:05:00,360 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 3: We've been getting massive windfalls from the sale of our commodities,

1282
01:05:04,160 --> 01:05:06,400
Speaker 3: from iron ore, from carl from gas, and the taxes

1283
01:05:06,440 --> 01:05:09,640
Speaker 3: on those companies, yeah, and they pay, you know, they

1284
01:05:09,720 --> 01:05:12,440
Speaker 3: pay company tax, and those company tax numbers have been huge,

1285
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:13,600
Speaker 3: and this is.

1286
01:05:13,600 --> 01:05:18,240
Speaker 1: Where everything's been looking great as taxes raised, except that

1287
01:05:18,400 --> 01:05:22,040
Speaker 1: at the same time we're now running massive deficits as

1288
01:05:22,040 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: far as we're so there's no structural balance here.

1289
01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:29,040
Speaker 3: This is this is a disaster. The windfall has all

1290
01:05:29,360 --> 01:05:33,440
Speaker 3: is all been spent and more, and so we are

1291
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 3: in a position I think where the risks for us

1292
01:05:36,480 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 3: are very very high. That that means a risk of

1293
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:44,440
Speaker 3: you know, some combination of a slow economy, potentially interest

1294
01:05:44,480 --> 01:05:48,479
Speaker 3: rates being stickier. Who knows, but certainly the Reserve Bank

1295
01:05:48,760 --> 01:05:52,040
Speaker 3: is ready for all of those scenarios. And the problem

1296
01:05:52,080 --> 01:05:55,840
Speaker 3: with this is uncertainty and knowing that you're not prepared

1297
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:58,400
Speaker 3: for a shock stops you investing in the future.

1298
01:05:58,920 --> 01:05:59,680
Speaker 2: That's the killer.

1299
01:06:00,760 --> 01:06:01,040
Speaker 1: I know.

1300
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:03,760
Speaker 3: The future of this country depends on us wanting to invest.

1301
01:06:04,240 --> 01:06:07,640
Speaker 3: Every single Australian. You wanting to invest in buying your home,

1302
01:06:07,800 --> 01:06:10,480
Speaker 3: wanting to invest in your business, wanting to invest in

1303
01:06:10,640 --> 01:06:13,400
Speaker 3: shares that can then take that money, companies take that

1304
01:06:13,480 --> 01:06:16,640
Speaker 3: money and invest themselves. If we stop being willing to

1305
01:06:16,760 --> 01:06:19,200
Speaker 3: invest because we're too uncertain about the future and we

1306
01:06:19,360 --> 01:06:23,400
Speaker 3: lack confidence in the future, then we won't go ahead.

1307
01:06:23,600 --> 01:06:26,440
Speaker 3: And that's we've got to change that dynamic.

1308
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,120
Speaker 1: So I just talked to you for a moment about

1309
01:06:30,360 --> 01:06:36,320
Speaker 1: it's a bugbear of mind, but it's the Greens. I

1310
01:06:36,440 --> 01:06:45,440
Speaker 1: don't understand why and how this whole preferencing works, Labor

1311
01:06:45,520 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: preferencing the Greens and the Greens preferencing labor.

1312
01:06:48,400 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 3: Well.

1313
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:52,200
Speaker 1: Although I think Albanize is on the record saying he

1314
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:57,720
Speaker 1: won't preference the Greens, I think I'm not sure because

1315
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,560
Speaker 1: because because what happens if i'm I mean, the polls

1316
01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 1: are saying that he's not going to do very well,

1317
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,040
Speaker 1: but he's there pot but if he has the support

1318
01:07:06,040 --> 01:07:08,440
Speaker 1: of the Greens, he can be in a minority government.

1319
01:07:09,960 --> 01:07:11,000
Speaker 2: So let's see.

1320
01:07:11,000 --> 01:07:11,840
Speaker 1: There's the danger in that.

1321
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:13,280
Speaker 2: Well, huge danger.

1322
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:18,000
Speaker 3: I think we need decisive, strong government at a time,

1323
01:07:18,120 --> 01:07:21,439
Speaker 3: like this Ian government that can actually get things done

1324
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 3: because we've got to get our budget back into shape.

1325
01:07:25,640 --> 01:07:27,880
Speaker 3: We've got to get household budgets back into shape so

1326
01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,800
Speaker 3: they're able to wear the storms that come at us.

1327
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,640
Speaker 3: And we've got to restore hope because it's when people

1328
01:07:34,720 --> 01:07:36,720
Speaker 3: have hope, that's when they invest in their future, and

1329
01:07:36,960 --> 01:07:40,320
Speaker 3: that's good for all of us. And to be able

1330
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:41,840
Speaker 3: to do that, you need to have a government that's

1331
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:45,120
Speaker 3: got a clear mandate exactly as you say. I think

1332
01:07:45,160 --> 01:07:49,800
Speaker 3: there is a very high risk if Labor wins the

1333
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:52,400
Speaker 3: election inverted commas. They only do it with the help

1334
01:07:52,520 --> 01:07:55,840
Speaker 3: of the Greens and the Tills some combination of those,

1335
01:07:56,520 --> 01:07:59,080
Speaker 3: and I think that's a very dangerous looking government. I mean,

1336
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 3: the Greens don't believe in the Australia.

1337
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:03,680
Speaker 2: I believe in, you know, want.

1338
01:08:04,040 --> 01:08:06,560
Speaker 3: They want everything to be taxed out of existence. They

1339
01:08:06,600 --> 01:08:09,640
Speaker 3: believe in much bigger government. They believe in red tape

1340
01:08:09,760 --> 01:08:13,680
Speaker 3: and green tape around everything, and that goes against everything

1341
01:08:13,720 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 3: I've been talking to you about today. But that's what

1342
01:08:16,400 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 3: they'll demand of Albanisi. And this is a guy who

1343
01:08:20,400 --> 01:08:22,360
Speaker 3: wants to stay in power and I think he'll do

1344
01:08:22,479 --> 01:08:25,680
Speaker 3: anything to do it. So let's see what happens with

1345
01:08:25,800 --> 01:08:27,680
Speaker 3: preferencing the two past to that. One, of course, is

1346
01:08:27,720 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 3: the preferencing at the election itself. I'm sure that that

1347
01:08:30,600 --> 01:08:34,639
Speaker 3: Labor and the Greens will swap preferences. And the second

1348
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:36,840
Speaker 3: is what they would do if they were in minority government.

1349
01:08:36,840 --> 01:08:38,600
Speaker 3: Would they do it deal with the Greens and what

1350
01:08:38,680 --> 01:08:41,120
Speaker 3: would be in that deal? Well, they're good questions. I

1351
01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:42,439
Speaker 3: think we can't afford that risk.

1352
01:08:43,040 --> 01:08:44,920
Speaker 1: I've read Adam Benstuf. He puts up an next he's

1353
01:08:44,920 --> 01:08:49,120
Speaker 1: actually talking about if Labor gets through this process and

1354
01:08:49,280 --> 01:08:50,639
Speaker 1: that they do it, and the Greens do a deal

1355
01:08:50,680 --> 01:08:53,519
Speaker 1: with Labor, that that's great for the Greens, that they

1356
01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: can now assert their positions.

1357
01:08:55,439 --> 01:08:57,719
Speaker 2: I've I've read their lips.

1358
01:08:57,840 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: He's saying that they were as Albani he says, well,

1359
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:01,639
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do a deal with the Greens.

1360
01:09:02,680 --> 01:09:05,000
Speaker 1: But can he possibly not do a deal with the Greens?

1361
01:09:05,280 --> 01:09:07,360
Speaker 3: Well, I think he will because I think, I mean

1362
01:09:08,080 --> 01:09:11,479
Speaker 3: power for the Labor Party is their reason for existence,

1363
01:09:11,520 --> 01:09:16,400
Speaker 3: and that's they want to be empower and I feel

1364
01:09:16,439 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 3: like sometimes one of our weaknesses is we want to

1365
01:09:20,360 --> 01:09:23,920
Speaker 3: constantly focus on doing good for the country. You've got

1366
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:25,600
Speaker 3: to be empowered to do that. So we've got to

1367
01:09:25,680 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 3: keep that in mind. But alb and Easy, I think

1368
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:31,360
Speaker 3: we'll do We'll do a deal with the Greens and

1369
01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:34,519
Speaker 3: Tiels if you can stay empowered to do it. And

1370
01:09:34,880 --> 01:09:37,840
Speaker 3: as I say, that's not the version of government we

1371
01:09:37,920 --> 01:09:38,400
Speaker 3: want to see.

1372
01:09:38,760 --> 01:09:41,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny. It's about you mentioned something interesting a

1373
01:09:41,920 --> 01:09:46,680
Speaker 1: few moments ago about your values. It'd be great if

1374
01:09:47,160 --> 01:09:52,719
Speaker 1: somehow instead of us sort of interpreting politicians, and particularly

1375
01:09:52,800 --> 01:09:55,479
Speaker 1: those people who are leaders of each party, like you know,

1376
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,280
Speaker 1: at a senior level, like yourself, and of course Peter Don't,

1377
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,479
Speaker 1: Alban Easy and Jim Chummers. Be great if we could

1378
01:10:02,520 --> 01:10:07,760
Speaker 1: somehow get our heads around what are their values, like,

1379
01:10:08,360 --> 01:10:11,240
Speaker 1: really really deep down what it is? I mean, Albo

1380
01:10:11,479 --> 01:10:14,160
Speaker 1: he was talking about, you know, like no one gets

1381
01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:15,600
Speaker 1: left behind all that sort of stuff. I get that,

1382
01:10:16,200 --> 01:10:19,560
Speaker 1: but like, really, what are your values? Like? Do you

1383
01:10:19,720 --> 01:10:22,640
Speaker 1: value what big business does for Australia the amount of

1384
01:10:22,680 --> 01:10:26,080
Speaker 1: tax it pays, the amount of people that employees. Do

1385
01:10:26,200 --> 01:10:28,840
Speaker 1: you value what small business owners do the amount of

1386
01:10:28,880 --> 01:10:31,479
Speaker 1: people they employ a matter of the tax of those

1387
01:10:31,520 --> 01:10:35,920
Speaker 1: people they employ pay. When I love the last budget,

1388
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:38,679
Speaker 1: I saw nothing in there that was small business friendly.

1389
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:41,160
Speaker 1: In fact, they took the investment allowance out and it

1390
01:10:41,280 --> 01:10:42,880
Speaker 1: was only a small investment outs and they just got

1391
01:10:42,960 --> 01:10:47,719
Speaker 1: rid of it. Yeah, it's just good if somehow somewhere

1392
01:10:48,360 --> 01:10:52,679
Speaker 1: everyone was made like right down your five most important values,

1393
01:10:53,479 --> 01:10:54,800
Speaker 1: so we knew what people stood for.

1394
01:10:54,920 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 3: Yeah, as long as they actually told you what they

1395
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:56,960
Speaker 3: really were.

1396
01:10:57,080 --> 01:10:57,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, we want the truth.

1397
01:10:59,240 --> 01:11:01,439
Speaker 3: I mean, this is why as I get around the country.

1398
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:03,479
Speaker 3: One of the things I'm most excited about is meeting

1399
01:11:03,560 --> 01:11:06,679
Speaker 3: the candidates that we've got running for us at this election,

1400
01:11:07,120 --> 01:11:10,320
Speaker 3: and that the range is incredible, So you know, from

1401
01:11:10,479 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 3: farmers to tradees, to paramedics to.

1402
01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:19,799
Speaker 2: One of your former exactly, and you know, these are people.

1403
01:11:19,640 --> 01:11:24,440
Speaker 3: From the full range of backgrounds across Australia, an incredible

1404
01:11:24,720 --> 01:11:29,519
Speaker 3: group of people and that is a huge strength for

1405
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:31,720
Speaker 3: the Liberal Party. The weakness is that I haven't got

1406
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:33,559
Speaker 3: political backgrounds and so they don't know how to play

1407
01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:35,519
Speaker 3: the political games. And I kind of felt like that

1408
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:39,160
Speaker 3: when I came into this job. But I'd rather have

1409
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:42,719
Speaker 3: that strength because I think they're the values of middle Australia.

1410
01:11:42,720 --> 01:11:44,760
Speaker 3: I think they're the values of hard working Australians who

1411
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,560
Speaker 3: want to get ahead. Mark, and that's the party I

1412
01:11:48,680 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 3: want to be part of, and it's the party I'm

1413
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:52,800
Speaker 3: very proud to be part of. So we wear our

1414
01:11:52,880 --> 01:11:54,800
Speaker 3: values on our slaves. We still doesn't mean we don't

1415
01:11:54,800 --> 01:11:55,400
Speaker 3: have differences.

1416
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:55,680
Speaker 1: We do.

1417
01:11:56,200 --> 01:11:59,439
Speaker 3: And the thing about Liberals is we're always prepared to debate.

1418
01:12:00,040 --> 01:12:03,720
Speaker 3: We do that's too much sometimes, but I do think

1419
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 3: those values are strong and our job and we don't

1420
01:12:09,320 --> 01:12:11,080
Speaker 3: always do it as well as we can is to

1421
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:12,880
Speaker 3: get out and tell people that this is what we

1422
01:12:13,000 --> 01:12:15,760
Speaker 3: believe in. So small business, which was your original question,

1423
01:12:16,120 --> 01:12:18,320
Speaker 3: is such a big part of it. I mean, it's

1424
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:21,040
Speaker 3: obviously my background farming is small business. They're the same thing.

1425
01:12:22,280 --> 01:12:27,120
Speaker 3: And I know that it feels so much of Australia.

1426
01:12:27,160 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 3: It fuels our communities, it fuels our local economies.

1427
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:32,320
Speaker 1: It's part of our DNA.

1428
01:12:32,479 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 3: It's part of our DNA, and it's that enterprising spirit

1429
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 3: of Australians getting out there and having a crack and

1430
01:12:37,200 --> 01:12:39,960
Speaker 3: having a go and building a twenty nine thousand insolvencies

1431
01:12:40,760 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 3: in the last record and a half year record, I

1432
01:12:42,840 --> 01:12:44,599
Speaker 3: mean that's twenty nine thousand broken dreams.

1433
01:12:44,800 --> 01:12:45,439
Speaker 2: Let's be clear.

1434
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 3: And you know some businesses fail, that's the nature of things.

1435
01:12:49,600 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 3: But I think this is over the odds and we've

1436
01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:56,560
Speaker 3: got to celebrate the incredible work that our people do

1437
01:12:56,640 --> 01:12:59,360
Speaker 3: in those businesses because we all rely on it and

1438
01:12:59,439 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 3: we all enjoy what they do every day. When we

1439
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,960
Speaker 3: go to the local cafe or pub, or go to

1440
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:09,000
Speaker 3: local shop wherever it is we eat, we're eating from

1441
01:13:09,320 --> 01:13:10,280
Speaker 3: the work that farmers do.

1442
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:13,000
Speaker 2: So it's got to be celebrated.

1443
01:13:13,040 --> 01:13:15,040
Speaker 3: That's why so much of our policies focused on that

1444
01:13:15,120 --> 01:13:18,400
Speaker 3: instant a set right off, getting rid of unnecessary red tape,

1445
01:13:18,439 --> 01:13:21,560
Speaker 3: making sure our industrial relations doesn't make it impossible to

1446
01:13:21,640 --> 01:13:25,400
Speaker 3: employ casuals, this right to disconnect, which we think is

1447
01:13:25,479 --> 01:13:27,400
Speaker 3: something that should be worked out between the boss and

1448
01:13:27,479 --> 01:13:28,839
Speaker 3: the employee, not by the government.

1449
01:13:29,280 --> 01:13:31,200
Speaker 2: I mean, these are the things that we know are

1450
01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:32,320
Speaker 2: important a small business.

1451
01:13:32,439 --> 01:13:35,120
Speaker 1: I mean, one of the things I often think about

1452
01:13:35,280 --> 01:13:40,360
Speaker 1: the Australian or the DNA, or or our original our

1453
01:13:40,439 --> 01:13:43,439
Speaker 1: origins is mate, we had convicts who came out of

1454
01:13:43,560 --> 01:13:47,439
Speaker 1: this country in a couple hundred years ago, who once

1455
01:13:47,520 --> 01:13:50,280
Speaker 1: they got out of being a convict and they've got freedom,

1456
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:56,680
Speaker 1: they went off and built roads, built pubs, built farming businesses.

1457
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,200
Speaker 1: Some of them were lucky enough to get a grand land.

1458
01:14:00,439 --> 01:14:03,720
Speaker 1: That's how where we started exactly. That's and then then

1459
01:14:03,720 --> 01:14:05,920
Speaker 1: we've had immigrants who comes to the country, some like

1460
01:14:06,000 --> 01:14:07,840
Speaker 1: my dad, who you know, couldn't do what he did

1461
01:14:07,920 --> 01:14:10,680
Speaker 1: back in his own country, which is farming, so he

1462
01:14:10,720 --> 01:14:12,240
Speaker 1: had to take the newest job and he became a

1463
01:14:12,680 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 1: worked in a factory, but then started a little small

1464
01:14:14,800 --> 01:14:19,040
Speaker 1: business on the site. So it is Australia's fabric and

1465
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:24,080
Speaker 1: for me, a party that's not even considering those people.

1466
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:27,160
Speaker 1: And I haven't heard the words small business get uttered

1467
01:14:27,960 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 1: out of the lay party for a long time. And

1468
01:14:31,760 --> 01:14:33,320
Speaker 1: I will say, I'll go back to the Keating and

1469
01:14:33,360 --> 01:14:35,760
Speaker 1: Hawk periods they actually appreciate a small business own.

1470
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:36,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right.

1471
01:14:36,920 --> 01:14:39,600
Speaker 1: But today it seems like it's a no, no area no.

1472
01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 3: And it's there's a couple of influences here. One there's

1473
01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:46,200
Speaker 3: a sort of a corporatis mindset. You know, big unions,

1474
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 3: big business, and big business has an important role to play,

1475
01:14:49,040 --> 01:14:51,120
Speaker 3: don't get me wrong. I mean it absolutely doesn't. The

1476
01:14:51,200 --> 01:14:53,840
Speaker 3: unions have a role to play. But if that's all

1477
01:14:53,920 --> 01:14:56,400
Speaker 3: you're focused on, you're missing a huge part of that economy,

1478
01:14:56,479 --> 01:15:00,160
Speaker 3: the really dynamic piece of people getting out there and

1479
01:15:00,320 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 3: serving Australians every day in their businesses two and a

1480
01:15:04,479 --> 01:15:07,720
Speaker 3: half million, and I think we should be celebrating that

1481
01:15:08,320 --> 01:15:11,439
Speaker 3: every single day. And I think the other thing is

1482
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,400
Speaker 3: that people who are in business who serve a customer

1483
01:15:14,439 --> 01:15:16,240
Speaker 3: should be proud of what they do. I mean, I

1484
01:15:16,320 --> 01:15:18,800
Speaker 3: think part of what's happened in business is you're made

1485
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:22,240
Speaker 3: to feel bad about what you do. Well you shouldn't,

1486
01:15:22,360 --> 01:15:25,880
Speaker 3: you know, when you serve a customer your business, when

1487
01:15:25,880 --> 01:15:28,120
Speaker 3: you're able to give a customer alone to buy a home,

1488
01:15:28,479 --> 01:15:28,840
Speaker 3: I mean.

1489
01:15:28,760 --> 01:15:29,519
Speaker 1: That's a victory.

1490
01:15:30,200 --> 01:15:31,400
Speaker 2: That is a noble thing.

1491
01:15:31,520 --> 01:15:34,719
Speaker 3: That is a truly glorious date for that person who's

1492
01:15:34,720 --> 01:15:38,000
Speaker 3: been able to get alone, buy a home and live

1493
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:40,760
Speaker 3: the Australian dream. And we should be much prouder of

1494
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:44,080
Speaker 3: what our businesses, and particularly our small businesses every single day.

1495
01:15:44,160 --> 01:15:47,040
Speaker 1: And that's a good point. And it's funny even I

1496
01:15:47,120 --> 01:15:49,320
Speaker 1: forget about it, forget about the importance of that. And

1497
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:51,679
Speaker 1: recently I was on a plane and I was going

1498
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:56,400
Speaker 1: over seasand the one of the tenants on the planes,

1499
01:15:56,439 --> 01:15:57,600
Speaker 1: she come to you. She kept looking at it, she

1500
01:15:57,640 --> 01:16:00,400
Speaker 1: will pass and eventually she stopped and said, you know, look,

1501
01:16:00,560 --> 01:16:02,040
Speaker 1: I just want to say something to you. And she said,

1502
01:16:02,720 --> 01:16:04,679
Speaker 1: I want to thank you. And she was a woman

1503
01:16:04,800 --> 01:16:06,599
Speaker 1: in her late fifties. I want to say, she said,

1504
01:16:06,640 --> 01:16:08,360
Speaker 1: I've worked for Corners my whole life. She said, when

1505
01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:13,040
Speaker 1: I got divorced twenty years ago, twenty five years ago,

1506
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,560
Speaker 1: she adopted children. She said, I got left with the

1507
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:18,120
Speaker 1: kids by myself, and she said, we had a sell

1508
01:16:18,160 --> 01:16:20,880
Speaker 1: Aphaniy home. So I was a single mother to a

1509
01:16:20,960 --> 01:16:23,320
Speaker 1: drop kids, had a job at conas had to borrow money.

1510
01:16:23,800 --> 01:16:25,120
Speaker 1: She said, I want to thank you because you're the

1511
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:29,280
Speaker 1: only organization will let me the money. And she started

1512
01:16:29,320 --> 01:16:29,720
Speaker 1: tearing up.

1513
01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:30,320
Speaker 2: How good is that?

1514
01:16:30,560 --> 01:16:34,200
Speaker 1: And I thought to myself, like, I've been this business

1515
01:16:34,240 --> 01:16:36,479
Speaker 1: for a long long time, and I thought to myself,

1516
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,559
Speaker 1: that's the reason why I do what I do exactly,

1517
01:16:40,680 --> 01:16:44,280
Speaker 1: because you can actually change people's life. And it could

1518
01:16:44,320 --> 01:16:49,479
Speaker 1: be it could be as simple and as commonplace as

1519
01:16:49,920 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 1: serving someone a coffee in the morning who's had a

1520
01:16:52,560 --> 01:16:54,800
Speaker 1: shitty night might have been a loss with a kid,

1521
01:16:55,840 --> 01:16:58,000
Speaker 1: is dying to have a coffee, just a few moments

1522
01:16:58,040 --> 01:17:00,360
Speaker 1: of relaxation on their own, just to dream a warm

1523
01:17:00,400 --> 01:17:03,400
Speaker 1: coffee and maybe in a cold morning, and you actually

1524
01:17:03,479 --> 01:17:06,040
Speaker 1: put that person in that position. That's what a small

1525
01:17:06,080 --> 01:17:08,879
Speaker 1: business does. And that's Australian values exactly.

1526
01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:10,679
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, if you work in a restaurant,

1527
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:12,840
Speaker 3: you're a waiter or a waitress in a restaurant and

1528
01:17:12,960 --> 01:17:18,120
Speaker 3: you serve a couple who decide, you know, are proposing

1529
01:17:18,160 --> 01:17:20,639
Speaker 3: to each other, yeah, or this is the first time

1530
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:22,519
Speaker 3: they've gone out to dinner and they end up marrying

1531
01:17:22,560 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 3: and having three kids.

1532
01:17:23,640 --> 01:17:27,559
Speaker 2: And you know these are. This is what businesses do.

1533
01:17:27,760 --> 01:17:30,760
Speaker 3: Every day, and I don't think we celebrate them. I

1534
01:17:30,800 --> 01:17:34,280
Speaker 3: think at times business in Australia, probably particularly big business,

1535
01:17:36,280 --> 01:17:39,879
Speaker 3: has lost its way. I think, you know, when business

1536
01:17:39,960 --> 01:17:42,720
Speaker 3: doesn't celebrate what it does for its customers and its

1537
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:47,479
Speaker 3: employees suppliers, it starts wanting to celebrate all these other things.

1538
01:17:48,320 --> 01:17:50,400
Speaker 3: I think it's losing touch with what it's there for.

1539
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:52,400
Speaker 3: And I think we saw some of that in the

1540
01:17:52,479 --> 01:17:56,599
Speaker 3: Voice debate and I think Australian's roundly rejected that approach.

1541
01:17:57,400 --> 01:18:00,160
Speaker 3: But I think we get to that place because we're

1542
01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:04,080
Speaker 3: not celebrating the incredible work that these Australians are doing,

1543
01:18:04,200 --> 01:18:05,200
Speaker 3: and good on them.

1544
01:18:05,280 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 2: We should be proud of what they do.

1545
01:18:07,240 --> 01:18:10,320
Speaker 1: Should be like we've got to we've got to continue

1546
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,599
Speaker 1: to foster small business owners in this country and all

1547
01:18:12,600 --> 01:18:15,400
Speaker 1: the people who work for them. And there's there's like,

1548
01:18:15,479 --> 01:18:17,040
Speaker 1: as you said, it's two point two million small busin

1549
01:18:17,040 --> 01:18:19,840
Speaker 1: owners Australia, there's about seven million people who work for them.

1550
01:18:20,160 --> 01:18:23,479
Speaker 1: It's the biggest workforce in the country. Like it's double

1551
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:25,880
Speaker 1: the size of the public service, double the size of

1552
01:18:25,880 --> 01:18:28,080
Speaker 1: the public service. And then big business accounts are about

1553
01:18:28,800 --> 01:18:31,479
Speaker 1: ten or fifteen percent of the of the employees. Where

1554
01:18:31,479 --> 01:18:33,960
Speaker 1: a small business. We employ everybody, all of us. And

1555
01:18:34,040 --> 01:18:36,360
Speaker 1: you know from farmers right through to people who install

1556
01:18:36,920 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: Elon Musk's skylink. Whatever's the top of your house, you

1557
01:18:41,160 --> 01:18:43,120
Speaker 1: probably have it in the farm. Yes, so do I

1558
01:18:43,720 --> 01:18:45,960
Speaker 1: bla bloody works well having to my farm as well,

1559
01:18:46,040 --> 01:18:49,200
Speaker 1: it works very well. So I knowing that you're coming

1560
01:18:49,280 --> 01:18:52,760
Speaker 1: here and next week I've got the Treasurer himself, so

1561
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:59,160
Speaker 1: he he's I've given him and you I'm going to

1562
01:18:59,200 --> 01:19:02,000
Speaker 1: give you the same opportunity to ask a couple of questions.

1563
01:19:02,040 --> 01:19:04,640
Speaker 1: And so the Treasurer has sent me three questions you

1564
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:07,360
Speaker 1: want me to put to you. First question, are you

1565
01:19:07,560 --> 01:19:11,080
Speaker 1: really going to legislate or have higher income taxes for everyone?

1566
01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:12,680
Speaker 2: Absolute?

1567
01:19:13,200 --> 01:19:16,800
Speaker 3: You know what's caused higher interest rates or higher income

1568
01:19:16,880 --> 01:19:20,200
Speaker 3: tax income to personal income tax person taxes for Australians

1569
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 3: is higher inflation. That's what's done it. I mean, we

1570
01:19:24,120 --> 01:19:27,320
Speaker 3: are now paying the highest rate of personal income tax

1571
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:32,240
Speaker 3: that we have for a long long time. They've gone

1572
01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:36,640
Speaker 3: up by well over twenty percent for the typical Australian

1573
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 3: family since labor came to power. And that's what inflation does.

1574
01:19:41,280 --> 01:19:45,360
Speaker 3: Now they're so called this so called personal income tax

1575
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:47,799
Speaker 3: cut that'll be gone within.

1576
01:19:47,640 --> 01:19:49,880
Speaker 2: A couple of years because you just wash it all away.

1577
01:19:49,960 --> 01:19:53,040
Speaker 3: I mean it's seventy cents a day in fifteen months time,

1578
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 3: so this is completely twenty twenty six. Yeah, so it

1579
01:19:56,520 --> 01:19:59,240
Speaker 3: will be washed out of the system in no time

1580
01:19:59,320 --> 01:20:01,679
Speaker 3: at all. And under Labour's home grain inflation, of course,

1581
01:20:01,680 --> 01:20:04,120
Speaker 3: we're paying a hell of a lot more personal income tax.

1582
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:06,840
Speaker 3: So the job here is beat inflation. That's got to

1583
01:20:06,880 --> 01:20:09,240
Speaker 3: be the top priority. Get the budget back in shape,

1584
01:20:09,800 --> 01:20:13,080
Speaker 3: which Jim Chalmers has trashed. He's borrowing from the future

1585
01:20:13,920 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 3: to spend money, and then put ourselves in a position

1586
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:20,559
Speaker 3: where we can drive down proper personal income tax reductions.

1587
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:24,080
Speaker 3: Of course we have driven big personal income tax reductions

1588
01:20:24,080 --> 01:20:26,720
Speaker 3: when we were in government Phase one, phase two, three

1589
01:20:27,040 --> 01:20:30,240
Speaker 3: Morrison exactly and say you know, we'll always be the

1590
01:20:30,400 --> 01:20:33,000
Speaker 3: party of lower taxes. We also think right now what

1591
01:20:33,640 --> 01:20:37,679
Speaker 3: is important for immediate relief is to get that fuel

1592
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:40,280
Speaker 3: tax down, because there's so many Australians in our suburbs

1593
01:20:40,320 --> 01:20:43,280
Speaker 3: and regions who travel long distances who are under a

1594
01:20:43,360 --> 01:20:45,680
Speaker 3: lot of pain with mortgages, and that's the best way

1595
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:48,519
Speaker 3: we can get them short to immediate relief, not in

1596
01:20:48,600 --> 01:20:49,400
Speaker 3: fifteen months time.

1597
01:20:49,720 --> 01:20:52,479
Speaker 1: So you are not going to have higher income taxes

1598
01:20:52,479 --> 01:20:52,960
Speaker 1: for everybody.

1599
01:20:53,080 --> 01:20:55,280
Speaker 3: There'll be lower income taxes. In fact, we have a

1600
01:20:55,520 --> 01:20:59,439
Speaker 3: tax to GDP cap we've set labor hasn't, and that

1601
01:20:59,560 --> 01:21:02,920
Speaker 3: says in the future, we're not going to keep clawing

1602
01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:06,000
Speaker 3: back more money from Australians by allowing inflation to erade

1603
01:21:06,000 --> 01:21:06,719
Speaker 3: their pay packets.

1604
01:21:06,920 --> 01:21:10,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so the second question, has you have flagged cuts

1605
01:21:10,479 --> 01:21:14,880
Speaker 1: to health and education? Where specifically will those cuts come from.

1606
01:21:17,720 --> 01:21:20,759
Speaker 3: We really should get these questions fact checked, but anyway,

1607
01:21:20,760 --> 01:21:24,479
Speaker 3: I alter the fact checking for you because we haven't

1608
01:21:24,600 --> 01:21:28,240
Speaker 3: flagged any cuts to health. I mean, this is complete nonsense.

1609
01:21:28,400 --> 01:21:28,759
Speaker 2: Education.

1610
01:21:29,560 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 3: In fact, we've said that we will provide bulk billing incentives.

1611
01:21:34,360 --> 01:21:37,759
Speaker 3: We do think there's areas of government spending that shouldn't

1612
01:21:37,760 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 3: be happening. We do think that the public service has

1613
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,760
Speaker 3: got too big in this country and that it's making

1614
01:21:44,800 --> 01:21:48,520
Speaker 3: it harder for small businesses and others to find employees.

1615
01:21:49,880 --> 01:21:53,320
Speaker 3: But that's not in essential services like health and education.

1616
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:56,800
Speaker 3: And in fact, we've announced in recent weeks not only

1617
01:21:56,880 --> 01:21:59,519
Speaker 3: will we provide the bulk builling incientive to fix up

1618
01:21:59,560 --> 01:22:01,840
Speaker 3: the mess that we've seen with a big reduction in

1619
01:22:01,920 --> 01:22:04,840
Speaker 3: bulk billings since Labors come to power. We've also been

1620
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:08,840
Speaker 3: clear that will provide GP incentives, will provide extra mental

1621
01:22:08,920 --> 01:22:12,599
Speaker 3: health sessions and a very significant investment in mental health

1622
01:22:12,680 --> 01:22:14,679
Speaker 3: as well, which we know is a really big issue

1623
01:22:14,840 --> 01:22:19,280
Speaker 3: for many Australians. So our total spend there is actually

1624
01:22:19,600 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 3: in that area is bigger than Labors.

1625
01:22:22,040 --> 01:22:23,360
Speaker 1: That was announ Send the reply.

1626
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:24,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, and budget and reply. He might have written the

1627
01:22:25,040 --> 01:22:27,280
Speaker 3: questions before then. I don't know, Mark, but you.

1628
01:22:27,280 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: Can read the reply and his the question is he says,

1629
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:33,600
Speaker 1: I've seen a lot of your policies mirror those of

1630
01:22:33,680 --> 01:22:37,040
Speaker 1: the current US administration. Why are you trying to emulate Donald?

1631
01:22:37,840 --> 01:22:40,479
Speaker 3: You know, we do what is right for Australia every day.

1632
01:22:41,160 --> 01:22:43,519
Speaker 3: I'm sure Donald Trump seeks to do what is right

1633
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:46,200
Speaker 3: for America, but we'll do what is right for Australia.

1634
01:22:46,280 --> 01:22:50,560
Speaker 3: We certainly don't support what they're doing with tariffs, and

1635
01:22:51,760 --> 01:22:53,800
Speaker 3: you know, the right thing for Australia is exactly the

1636
01:22:53,880 --> 01:22:56,800
Speaker 3: sort of things we've been talking about today. And I'm

1637
01:22:56,880 --> 01:23:00,599
Speaker 3: very proud of those policies in small business, in getting

1638
01:23:00,640 --> 01:23:04,320
Speaker 3: access to a home, in making it easier to borrow money,

1639
01:23:04,760 --> 01:23:07,400
Speaker 3: to get advice all of the things that we stand

1640
01:23:07,479 --> 01:23:10,040
Speaker 3: for in allowing Austrainers.

1641
01:23:09,600 --> 01:23:10,920
Speaker 2: To get on and get ahead.

1642
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:14,000
Speaker 1: So you're not all sort of sitting around there having

1643
01:23:14,240 --> 01:23:17,559
Speaker 1: a strategy meeting saying Trump's done this and he won

1644
01:23:17,600 --> 01:23:19,320
Speaker 1: the election, Let's do the same thing and we'll win

1645
01:23:19,320 --> 01:23:20,400
Speaker 1: the election. Here in Australia.

1646
01:23:20,640 --> 01:23:23,120
Speaker 2: It's just absolute nuts and summon.

1647
01:23:23,680 --> 01:23:24,799
Speaker 1: You can't go and have an offside.

1648
01:23:25,080 --> 01:23:28,000
Speaker 3: But I'm sure that's what the Labor Party thinks, and

1649
01:23:28,160 --> 01:23:30,479
Speaker 3: it just tells me they're pretty out of touch with

1650
01:23:31,520 --> 01:23:35,320
Speaker 3: what's going on and certainly out of touch with what

1651
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 3: we're doing and thinking the fact that they didn't even

1652
01:23:37,680 --> 01:23:39,759
Speaker 3: understand their health policies probably tells you everything.

1653
01:23:41,960 --> 01:23:44,040
Speaker 1: So I'm going to give you and I'll do it

1654
01:23:44,080 --> 01:23:46,120
Speaker 1: off camera, and I'm going to give you so I'm

1655
01:23:46,120 --> 01:23:47,800
Speaker 1: not going to announce it to him obviously, the questions,

1656
01:23:47,800 --> 01:23:50,120
Speaker 1: but I'm going to give him this. Give you the

1657
01:23:50,160 --> 01:23:52,519
Speaker 1: opportunity to tell me, give me three questions to ask

1658
01:23:52,680 --> 01:23:56,000
Speaker 1: him without notice in the interview I do with him

1659
01:23:56,040 --> 01:24:03,200
Speaker 1: next week. Finally, though, Angus, in one sentence, why should

1660
01:24:03,320 --> 01:24:06,640
Speaker 1: Australians vote at this next election? Vote for Liberal and

1661
01:24:06,800 --> 01:24:09,040
Speaker 1: for the Nationals, Vote for the coalition.

1662
01:24:09,920 --> 01:24:13,160
Speaker 3: We can't afford another three years like the last three years.

1663
01:24:13,720 --> 01:24:16,920
Speaker 3: We can do better and that's what we are committed

1664
01:24:17,000 --> 01:24:18,719
Speaker 3: to do than you started.

1665
01:24:18,760 --> 01:24:19,280
Speaker 1: Thanks very much.