1 00:00:05,790 --> 00:00:08,670 Sean Aylmer: Welcome to the Fear & Greed Business Interview. I'm Sean Aylmer. 2 00:00:08,700 --> 00:00:12,209 Sean Aylmer: Last week, the Senate passed legislation allowing for a digital 3 00:00:12,210 --> 00:00:15,689 Sean Aylmer: ID to be introduced. It's similar to what's currently available 4 00:00:15,690 --> 00:00:18,720 Sean Aylmer: with the MyGov ID, except that one is limited to government 5 00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,900 Sean Aylmer: agencies. The new digital ID could be used across the 6 00:00:21,900 --> 00:00:24,750 Sean Aylmer: broader economy by a whole range of companies like banks, 7 00:00:24,750 --> 00:00:28,050 Sean Aylmer: utilities, that type of thing. It's going to be strictly 8 00:00:28,290 --> 00:00:31,319 Sean Aylmer: voluntary, but I wanted to take a closer look at 9 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:34,769 Sean Aylmer: what it means both for consumers and businesses that will be 10 00:00:34,769 --> 00:00:36,780 Sean Aylmer: able to use it. And to do that, we'll go 11 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:38,699 Sean Aylmer: to one of the companies that will be central to the 12 00:00:38,700 --> 00:00:42,479 Sean Aylmer: rollout. Brad Carr is Executive for Innovation and Partnerships at 13 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,640 Sean Aylmer: National Australia Bank. Brad, welcome to Fear & Greed. 14 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,290 Brad Carr: Thanks, Sean. Great to be with you. 15 00:00:46,679 --> 00:00:48,359 Sean Aylmer: First off, why do we need it? 16 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:51,239 Brad Carr: Well, there's probably a number of reasons and there's certainly 17 00:00:51,269 --> 00:00:53,880 Brad Carr: some areas of efficiency and simplicity that we can gain, 18 00:00:54,420 --> 00:00:56,340 Brad Carr: but the really big one I think is really the 19 00:00:56,490 --> 00:00:59,250 Brad Carr: fraud and scam epidemic that we're facing, and I guess 20 00:00:59,250 --> 00:01:02,700 Brad Carr: just how rampant and how monumental that's become. And it's 21 00:01:02,700 --> 00:01:05,130 Brad Carr: a very tragic story for a lot of Australians and 22 00:01:05,370 --> 00:01:08,789 Brad Carr: for our customers. And really, it's getting harder and harder 23 00:01:08,789 --> 00:01:11,549 Brad Carr: to tell who and what is real in the online 24 00:01:11,549 --> 00:01:14,670 Brad Carr: interactions we have, whether that's in business or whether that's 25 00:01:14,670 --> 00:01:18,089 Brad Carr: in social interactions. You might've seen there was that case 26 00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:20,369 Brad Carr: in Hong Kong in February where a corporate was scammed 27 00:01:20,370 --> 00:01:24,179 Brad Carr: out of $ 26 million US dollars via an AI deepfake, 28 00:01:24,300 --> 00:01:26,759 Brad Carr: a fake video or a fake Zoom call rather, with 29 00:01:26,759 --> 00:01:29,399 Brad Carr: a fake CFO telling them to move money. So I 30 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,679 Brad Carr: think even if you're a skeptical person like me, and 31 00:01:31,770 --> 00:01:33,869 Brad Carr: you're probably still a bit inclined to trust your own 32 00:01:33,930 --> 00:01:36,240 Brad Carr: eyes and ears, it's just getting harder and harder to 33 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:38,910 Brad Carr: tell what's real. And I think that really brings the 34 00:01:38,910 --> 00:01:40,380 Brad Carr: case for digital ID to the fore. 35 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,219 Sean Aylmer: Okay, so what exactly is a digital ID and how might it work? 36 00:01:45,030 --> 00:01:48,059 Brad Carr: So there's probably different interpretations around us to what digital ID 37 00:01:48,059 --> 00:01:51,510 Brad Carr: is. I think at its core, it's about having secure real- 38 00:01:51,510 --> 00:01:54,600 Brad Carr: time ways to be able to verify either who you 39 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:57,510 Brad Carr: are or the one or two things that you need 40 00:01:57,570 --> 00:02:00,630 Brad Carr: for something to be able to proceed. And the example 41 00:02:00,630 --> 00:02:03,270 Brad Carr: I love to go to is if I'm buying alcohol 42 00:02:03,270 --> 00:02:05,759 Brad Carr: for instance, and that's a real world scenario for me. I was 43 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,030 Brad Carr: just in McLaren Vale on the weekend. They don't actually 44 00:02:09,030 --> 00:02:12,208 Brad Carr: need to know my driver's license number or my address, 45 00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:14,849 Brad Carr: or even actually my date of birth. They just need 46 00:02:14,849 --> 00:02:16,919 Brad Carr: to be able to verify somehow that my date of 47 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,340 Brad Carr: birth was at least 18 years ago. So digital ID 48 00:02:20,340 --> 00:02:22,859 Brad Carr: is about how we can provide that secure real- time 49 00:02:22,859 --> 00:02:25,800 Brad Carr: verification. I think really just of that one thing that 50 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:28,470 Brad Carr: you need to know as little as possible, so that 51 00:02:28,470 --> 00:02:31,080 Brad Carr: we can actually use this as a way to minimize 52 00:02:31,169 --> 00:02:35,400 Brad Carr: the oversharing of identity data, which otherwise just feeds back 53 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,799 Brad Carr: into that rampant fraud and scam activity. 54 00:02:38,459 --> 00:02:42,089 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So what then is a digital ID? So in that example, 55 00:02:42,359 --> 00:02:45,600 Sean Aylmer: and with respect Brad, I reckon that you look over 56 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,880 Sean Aylmer: 18. My 20- year- old son might not look over 57 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:50,549 Sean Aylmer: 18. What is it? Is it something on your phone? 58 00:02:50,550 --> 00:02:51,389 Sean Aylmer: How does it work? 59 00:02:51,750 --> 00:02:54,450 Brad Carr: Yeah, it's funny you use that analogy there. I was 60 00:02:54,450 --> 00:02:56,069 Brad Carr: trying to explain this to my son one day. He 61 00:02:56,070 --> 00:02:58,559 Brad Carr: saw me in my Connect ID t- shirt and I 62 00:02:58,559 --> 00:03:00,540 Brad Carr: explained to when I'm buying alcohol and he said, " Look, 63 00:03:00,540 --> 00:03:02,040 Brad Carr: wouldn't they just look at you dad?" Yeah. 64 00:03:02,310 --> 00:03:04,140 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. I've got the same problem with my kids. Yeah. 65 00:03:04,169 --> 00:03:07,410 Brad Carr: The thing is, the alcohol is an easy scenario for 66 00:03:07,410 --> 00:03:09,630 Brad Carr: me to point to, but this is actually something that's 67 00:03:09,630 --> 00:03:12,389 Brad Carr: so every day in a lot of our interactions through 68 00:03:12,389 --> 00:03:14,940 Brad Carr: the economy. When people go to rent a home, they're 69 00:03:14,940 --> 00:03:17,399 Brad Carr: having to provide copies of their driver's license, copies of 70 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:20,220 Brad Carr: their passport to a real estate agent. When you're onboarding 71 00:03:20,220 --> 00:03:24,480 Brad Carr: for a new job, it's similar. And with all respect 72 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,719 Brad Carr: for the predicament that small business faces themselves in, and 73 00:03:27,719 --> 00:03:30,179 Brad Carr: these are small businesses that in many cases are our 74 00:03:30,179 --> 00:03:33,330 Brad Carr: clients here at NAB, they then have to find ways 75 00:03:33,330 --> 00:03:35,850 Brad Carr: to store and protect that identity data that they're taking 76 00:03:35,850 --> 00:03:38,520 Brad Carr: in. Regrettably, I'm sure some of it ends up in 77 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,190 Brad Carr: filing cabinets or trash cans out the back. Some of 78 00:03:41,190 --> 00:03:44,190 Brad Carr: it probably ends up on servers that they haven't necessarily 79 00:03:44,190 --> 00:03:47,730 Brad Carr: had the resources to secure, and ultimately ends up feeding 80 00:03:47,730 --> 00:03:51,120 Brad Carr: a lot of that dark web activity. For us as 81 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,570 Brad Carr: a bank, we have consumer customers who are increasingly conscious 82 00:03:54,570 --> 00:03:57,960 Brad Carr: of the leakage of their personal data. We have business 83 00:03:57,960 --> 00:04:01,110 Brad Carr: customers who are increasingly aware of the potential liability they're 84 00:04:01,110 --> 00:04:03,780 Brad Carr: sitting on with some of this data. It would be 85 00:04:03,780 --> 00:04:06,660 Brad Carr: so much better if we just actually provided the verification 86 00:04:06,690 --> 00:04:09,929 Brad Carr: or the attestation in between that we can verify that yes, 87 00:04:09,929 --> 00:04:12,089 Brad Carr: this person is real, yes, they do live within this 88 00:04:12,180 --> 00:04:15,870 Brad Carr: particular postal code, and save the need for any of 89 00:04:15,870 --> 00:04:18,090 Brad Carr: that transfer and storage of identity data. 90 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,280 Sean Aylmer: Stay with me Brad, we'll be back in a minute. 91 00:04:27,178 --> 00:04:30,600 Sean Aylmer: I'm speaking to Brad Carr, Executive for Innovation and Partnerships 92 00:04:30,779 --> 00:04:34,919 Sean Aylmer: at National Australia Bank. If I need to sign up 93 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,080 Sean Aylmer: for a new lease or something other, what is it 94 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:41,339 Sean Aylmer: that I'm actually showing people from NAB that is my 95 00:04:41,339 --> 00:04:42,300 Sean Aylmer: digital ID. 96 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:46,259 Brad Carr: Yeah. And I probably need to give the clarification here 97 00:04:46,260 --> 00:04:48,118 Brad Carr: that we've probably got a near- term and a medium- 98 00:04:48,210 --> 00:04:51,150 Brad Carr: term iteration here. The near- term is all very much 99 00:04:51,150 --> 00:04:54,270 Brad Carr: online. The medium- term will be when we start to 100 00:04:54,270 --> 00:04:57,000 Brad Carr: have an in- person context that you can use this 101 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,779 Brad Carr: for as well. But in the here and now, ourselves 102 00:05:00,779 --> 00:05:04,349 Brad Carr: at NAB and together with CBA via Australia Payments Plus, 103 00:05:04,350 --> 00:05:08,159 Brad Carr: we've launched Connect ID, and with Connect ID for the 104 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,980 Brad Carr: merchants, the businesses that come on board with that, you 105 00:05:10,980 --> 00:05:14,039 Brad Carr: can be in the website or in the mobile app 106 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,529 Brad Carr: of the particular business that you are using. Rent Better 107 00:05:16,529 --> 00:05:19,260 Brad Carr: is one example that is connecting landlords and tenants together. 108 00:05:19,950 --> 00:05:22,379 Brad Carr: And from within the Rent Better app, you are then 109 00:05:22,379 --> 00:05:26,001 Brad Carr: prompted that you choose NAB or CBA or (inaudible) , 110 00:05:26,550 --> 00:05:29,490 Brad Carr: one of the other banks to validate for you. It 111 00:05:29,490 --> 00:05:32,910 Brad Carr: then kicks you over into the app or the internet 112 00:05:32,910 --> 00:05:36,209 Brad Carr: banking platform of your chosen bank. You give the bank 113 00:05:36,210 --> 00:05:38,428 Brad Carr: the authorization that you are happy for the bank to 114 00:05:38,428 --> 00:05:41,189 Brad Carr: answer the one or two questions that Rent Better needs, 115 00:05:41,879 --> 00:05:45,150 Brad Carr: and it then completes the flow within the Rent Better 116 00:05:45,210 --> 00:05:48,539 Brad Carr: website. So it's only ever with the customer's consent, the 117 00:05:48,540 --> 00:05:52,710 Brad Carr: customer instructs NAB or whichever other bank that they're comfortable 118 00:05:52,710 --> 00:05:54,599 Brad Carr: for the bank to answer that question on their behalf. 119 00:05:55,170 --> 00:05:58,139 Brad Carr: And because the bank has previously done KYC, know your 120 00:05:58,139 --> 00:06:01,950 Brad Carr: client analysis and verification on each client, it's really us 121 00:06:01,950 --> 00:06:04,890 Brad Carr: leveraging the capabilities that we already have, just giving that 122 00:06:04,890 --> 00:06:07,618 Brad Carr: verification on that one or two elements that are at 123 00:06:07,620 --> 00:06:11,130 Brad Carr: play. We're not sharing or passing the full identity, the 124 00:06:11,130 --> 00:06:13,410 Brad Carr: full avatar or the full digital twin of a person. 125 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:18,539 Sean Aylmer: Okay. And is it pass code restricted or something? Am 126 00:06:18,539 --> 00:06:21,180 Sean Aylmer: I providing the information to the person using the app 127 00:06:21,779 --> 00:06:23,909 Sean Aylmer: to send that through, or is that something that I'm 128 00:06:23,910 --> 00:06:27,000 Sean Aylmer: actually doing on the app and then sending it to 129 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:29,759 Sean Aylmer: the person renting out the place in my instance? 130 00:06:30,210 --> 00:06:33,630 Brad Carr: Yeah, so you are giving the authentication via the NAB 131 00:06:33,630 --> 00:06:36,930 Brad Carr: app or the NAB internet banking platform. So you're logging 132 00:06:36,930 --> 00:06:39,240 Brad Carr: into that as you normally would. You're getting the multi- 133 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:42,660 Brad Carr: factor authentication as you normally would so that it's using 134 00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:43,409 Brad Carr: our secure channel. 135 00:06:44,099 --> 00:06:46,500 Sean Aylmer: Okay. So something you said then, which I think is 136 00:06:46,500 --> 00:06:49,859 Sean Aylmer: really interesting, is the idea that it only provides information 137 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:53,789 Sean Aylmer: that's needed for that particular transaction. Tell me about that. 138 00:06:53,789 --> 00:06:56,490 Sean Aylmer: I mean, is that a problem... Your example of handing 139 00:06:56,490 --> 00:07:00,450 Sean Aylmer: over your license when buying alcohol, there's all that information 140 00:07:00,450 --> 00:07:02,790 Sean Aylmer: on there that the person on the other side of 141 00:07:02,790 --> 00:07:05,820 Sean Aylmer: the counter doesn't need. And presumably what this does, it 142 00:07:05,849 --> 00:07:08,040 Sean Aylmer: minimizes that release of information. 143 00:07:08,670 --> 00:07:13,530 Brad Carr: Yeah, correct. It's data minimization. So we're minimizing what's transferred 144 00:07:14,010 --> 00:07:16,830 Brad Carr: where I guess in that sense we're averting the flow 145 00:07:16,830 --> 00:07:21,299 Brad Carr: of information that otherwise gets stored somewhere, gets leaked, ends 146 00:07:21,300 --> 00:07:23,759 Brad Carr: up on the dark web, and therefore enables the next 147 00:07:23,759 --> 00:07:29,100 Brad Carr: round of impersonation scams or social engineering. We're minimizing that 148 00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:32,790 Brad Carr: flow. But also, we're using what in the identity community, 149 00:07:32,790 --> 00:07:35,970 Brad Carr: the parlance they use is a zero- knowledge proof. We're 150 00:07:35,970 --> 00:07:38,340 Brad Carr: not telling Dan Murphy what your date of birth is. 151 00:07:38,370 --> 00:07:40,470 Brad Carr: We're only answering a yes or no question. 152 00:07:40,950 --> 00:07:43,469 Sean Aylmer: Yeah. Okay. And then the flip side for businesses, they 153 00:07:43,469 --> 00:07:46,230 Sean Aylmer: don't have to have all this information that they are 154 00:07:46,230 --> 00:07:49,230 Sean Aylmer: at risk of losing with this digital ID. 155 00:07:49,290 --> 00:07:50,040 Brad Carr: Yep. Correct. 156 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,130 Sean Aylmer: Now, I noticed some research from National Australia Bank. It 157 00:07:53,130 --> 00:07:56,880 Sean Aylmer: says one in two Australians, or 46% overall said they 158 00:07:56,940 --> 00:08:00,120 Sean Aylmer: are either very likely or likely to sign up for 159 00:08:00,120 --> 00:08:04,529 Sean Aylmer: a bank verified digital ID, about 40% or a bit 160 00:08:04,529 --> 00:08:10,110 Sean Aylmer: under were undecided, 15% were unlikely. From where I stand, 161 00:08:10,290 --> 00:08:13,410 Sean Aylmer: it is a no- brainer. I don't want my information 162 00:08:13,410 --> 00:08:16,800 Sean Aylmer: out there, why wouldn't I, assuming we trust the banks, 163 00:08:16,800 --> 00:08:19,410 Sean Aylmer: and so I appreciate there's probably a cohort who don't 164 00:08:19,410 --> 00:08:22,769 Sean Aylmer: trust banks, but 99% of us trust the banks. Why 165 00:08:22,770 --> 00:08:24,899 Sean Aylmer: do you think there's still so much indecision around this? 166 00:08:25,529 --> 00:08:26,940 Brad Carr: Well, I think we've got a bit of a job 167 00:08:26,940 --> 00:08:29,070 Brad Carr: ahead of us in helping to grow the awareness of 168 00:08:29,070 --> 00:08:32,880 Brad Carr: this and to give the confidence in, as you've rightly 169 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:35,098 Brad Carr: posed to me, what digital ID is and how this 170 00:08:35,099 --> 00:08:36,570 Brad Carr: is going to work. And I'm sure for a lot 171 00:08:36,570 --> 00:08:39,270 Brad Carr: of people, it is an unknown, but also I think 172 00:08:39,270 --> 00:08:41,939 Brad Carr: there are very different trust profiles in different parts of 173 00:08:41,940 --> 00:08:45,270 Brad Carr: the community. I love to point to the studies that 174 00:08:45,270 --> 00:08:46,920 Brad Carr: have been done by the Bank of England and the 175 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,370 Brad Carr: Bank for International Settlements, each of which have quite consistently 176 00:08:50,370 --> 00:08:53,608 Brad Carr: shown that people trust, the majority of people trust their 177 00:08:53,610 --> 00:08:55,978 Brad Carr: bank more than they trust government, more than they trust 178 00:08:55,980 --> 00:08:59,129 Brad Carr: a tech firm with their personal ID data. But majority 179 00:08:59,129 --> 00:09:02,040 Brad Carr: doesn't mean everybody, and there will be different patterns and 180 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,220 Brad Carr: different trust behaviors. And so I think it's really important 181 00:09:05,220 --> 00:09:07,170 Brad Carr: that ultimately if we're going to make this work for 182 00:09:07,170 --> 00:09:09,870 Brad Carr: Australians and if we're going to give them secure services, 183 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:12,599 Brad Carr: we need to give them choice. And there will be 184 00:09:12,599 --> 00:09:15,030 Brad Carr: people who might prefer a state or a federal government 185 00:09:15,030 --> 00:09:18,270 Brad Carr: app or Australia Post or maybe Telstra. I think Australians 186 00:09:18,270 --> 00:09:20,880 Brad Carr: will use a digital ID service if we respect their 187 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,870 Brad Carr: right to choice, and if we have multiple entities, such 188 00:09:24,870 --> 00:09:28,260 Brad Carr: as ourselves, stepping forward and providing an extra option, an 189 00:09:28,260 --> 00:09:31,290 Brad Carr: extra choice. And if you do have the ability to... 190 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,139 Brad Carr: Right, I'm going to validate myself with MyGov ID or with 191 00:09:34,139 --> 00:09:36,208 Brad Carr: services in New South Wales or with NAB or with 192 00:09:36,208 --> 00:09:40,710 Brad Carr: CBA. Whereas I think if people were shoehorned into, here 193 00:09:40,710 --> 00:09:43,590 Brad Carr: is the solo or singular service that you have to 194 00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:46,620 Brad Carr: use for ID, I think that would make people a 195 00:09:46,620 --> 00:09:48,689 Brad Carr: lot more reluctant or at least there'd be a chunk 196 00:09:48,690 --> 00:09:50,340 Brad Carr: of the community that would opt out of that. 197 00:09:50,849 --> 00:09:54,090 Sean Aylmer: Final question, Brad, how secure is it? Because the bottom 198 00:09:54,090 --> 00:09:57,809 Sean Aylmer: line here is we started with scams and the thing 199 00:09:57,809 --> 00:10:01,319 Sean Aylmer: about a digital ID is that hopefully it reduces scams. 200 00:10:01,320 --> 00:10:04,170 Sean Aylmer: I'm sure that nothing's a hundred percent secure, and I'm 201 00:10:04,170 --> 00:10:07,679 Sean Aylmer: sure that scammers will find their way around things, but 202 00:10:07,710 --> 00:10:10,410 Sean Aylmer: what sort of difference will it make if people do 203 00:10:10,410 --> 00:10:10,920 Sean Aylmer: adopt it? 204 00:10:11,879 --> 00:10:14,880 Brad Carr: Yeah, so I think it improves things on two levels. 205 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:17,939 Brad Carr: One is it cuts out that flow of leaking data, 206 00:10:18,330 --> 00:10:20,940 Brad Carr: but it does also steer people into a more secure 207 00:10:20,940 --> 00:10:23,669 Brad Carr: channel with their bank. And we need to see this 208 00:10:23,730 --> 00:10:27,360 Brad Carr: against not only that AI deepfake scenario I mentioned, but 209 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:32,250 Brad Carr: also you see increasingly in ticketing systems, when you're trying 210 00:10:32,250 --> 00:10:34,020 Brad Carr: to buy the Taylor Swift tickets or the next lot 211 00:10:34,020 --> 00:10:36,840 Brad Carr: of LeBron sneakers, you've used to have to go through 212 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:38,759 Brad Carr: the whole capture thing where you had to click on 213 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,889 Brad Carr: every square that had a bicycle or a bridge or 214 00:10:40,889 --> 00:10:44,069 Brad Carr: what. I think it's increasingly known that that system has 215 00:10:44,070 --> 00:10:47,250 Brad Carr: been defeated. And so you do see a number of 216 00:10:47,250 --> 00:10:50,819 Brad Carr: the US banks moving to an arrangement, I think, or 217 00:10:51,059 --> 00:10:53,820 Brad Carr: at least there are pilots running in the US where 218 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,179 Brad Carr: when you are in the Taylor Swift tickets queue, you're 219 00:10:57,179 --> 00:10:59,819 Brad Carr: going to need to validate yourself with Bank of America 220 00:10:59,820 --> 00:11:02,309 Brad Carr: or Wells Fargo to show that you are a legitimate 221 00:11:02,309 --> 00:11:04,949 Brad Carr: person worth that place in the queue as opposed to 222 00:11:05,309 --> 00:11:09,150 Brad Carr: a bot operating on behalf of a scalper. Now, I 223 00:11:09,150 --> 00:11:11,400 Brad Carr: think there's got to be Australians who will want to 224 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,910 Brad Carr: stand in that Ticketmaster or Nike queue alongside the Wells 225 00:11:14,910 --> 00:11:17,550 Brad Carr: Fargo customer. And so it's a really important part that 226 00:11:17,550 --> 00:11:20,400 Brad Carr: we step forward and bring that. And it's also going 227 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:22,978 Brad Carr: to be important for those Zoom calls, not only for 228 00:11:22,980 --> 00:11:27,300 Brad Carr: the deepfake scenario, but also for whether it's telemedicine or 229 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:30,480 Brad Carr: with financial advice, establishing that the person on the other 230 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,270 Brad Carr: end is real. Again, I think you're going to see 231 00:11:33,270 --> 00:11:36,059 Brad Carr: a world quite quickly where the Bank of America and 232 00:11:36,059 --> 00:11:38,309 Brad Carr: Wells Fargo customer will be logging in with their bank 233 00:11:38,309 --> 00:11:40,619 Brad Carr: to provide the verification to the other side that they're 234 00:11:40,619 --> 00:11:43,260 Brad Carr: real, and I want to bring that to Australia as well. 235 00:11:43,650 --> 00:11:45,420 Sean Aylmer: Fantastic. Well, good luck with it, Brad, and thank you 236 00:11:45,420 --> 00:11:46,559 Sean Aylmer: for talking to Fear & Greed. 237 00:11:47,010 --> 00:11:47,370 Brad Carr: Thanks, Sean. 238 00:11:47,850 --> 00:11:50,790 Sean Aylmer: That was Brad Carr, Executive for Innovation and Partnerships at 239 00:11:50,790 --> 00:11:53,849 Sean Aylmer: National Australia Bank. This is the Fear & Greed Business Interview. 240 00:11:53,849 --> 00:11:56,309 Sean Aylmer: Join us every morning for the full episode of Fear & 241 00:11:56,309 --> 00:11:58,708 Sean Aylmer: Greed, Daily Business News for people who make their own 242 00:11:58,708 --> 00:12:01,290 Sean Aylmer: decisions. I'm Sean Aylmer. Enjoy your day.