WEBVTT - Your next favourite podcast 0:00:01.240 --> 0:00:01.759 We've closed. 0:00:01.760 --> 0:00:03.680 Are you ready? Okay? 0:00:03.720 --> 0:00:03.960 Great? 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.560 If you're anything like me, sometimes you'll look at your 0:00:14.600 --> 0:00:17.600 list of regular podcasts and think I hate all these 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.239 shows except the Front. Of course, when that happens to me, 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:24.479 I turn for advice to Kristen Amiot, who sits next 0:00:24.480 --> 0:00:27.000 to me at work and is the producer of the Front. 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:31.440 She also happens to be a bona fide podcast expert. 0:00:31.800 --> 0:00:34.560 She writes our podcast a review column in The Australian 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.960 every Saturday, and today she joins me to talk about 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:41.240 the best podcasts of twenty twenty four and the best 0:00:41.280 --> 0:00:48.600 of all time. What were the big trends do you 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:50.360 think in podcasting in twenty twenty four? 0:00:51.120 --> 0:00:54.320 Twenty twenty four was the year that podcasts really emerged 0:00:54.400 --> 0:01:01.680 as a bona fide political force. I think that's significant 0:01:01.720 --> 0:01:07.320 because podcasts pop culture adjacency, I think has caused them 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:11.120 to be discounted by traditional media, but also to be 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:14.759 lumped in with social media in the sense that there 0:01:14.840 --> 0:01:16.480 was a belief for a very long time that anybody 0:01:16.480 --> 0:01:18.600 could whack on a voice memo and call it a podcast. 0:01:19.720 --> 0:01:23.080 We do know that podcasts are an incredibly intimate medium. 0:01:23.120 --> 0:01:26.240 You're quite literally in people's ears. You're with them while 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:28.720 they're gardening or cooking or doing the school drop off. 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:34.640 And we know that people retain and comprehend information differently, 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:38.120 not necessarily better, but differently when they listen to a podcast. 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.320 All of those things are the reason that we saw 0:01:41.400 --> 0:01:44.720 podcasts in particular have such a significant impact or presence 0:01:45.120 --> 0:01:53.760 in the recent US election. We saw Donald Trump on 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.040 Joe Rogan's podcast, which has been and still is one 0:01:57.040 --> 0:01:58.600 of the biggest podcasts in the world. 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.760 All right for Roland, here we go. 0:02:05.440 --> 0:02:09.200 We saw Kamla Harris appear on Alex Cooper's podcast, called 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:16.359 Her Daddy, Daddy, Madam Vice President Alex welcome to call 0:02:16.400 --> 0:02:18.280 her daddy. It is good to be with you. And 0:02:18.320 --> 0:02:21.720 that has perpetuated a really interesting conversation I think about 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.000 who gets to be in the media, who gets to 0:02:25.000 --> 0:02:30.120 participate in politics, and curiosity around why these particular titles 0:02:30.240 --> 0:02:32.640 resonate with such a huge number of people to the 0:02:32.639 --> 0:02:36.960 point where they are arguably having an impact on the 0:02:36.960 --> 0:02:38.160 democratic process. 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:41.520 In the evolution from radio to podcasting, it seemed like 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:43.560 everything was going to be a bit more intentional. You know, 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.400 you've made the choice to click on a podcast rather 0:02:46.440 --> 0:02:49.240 than the radio just kind of wittering on in the background. 0:02:49.760 --> 0:02:50.960 It would be that. 0:02:50.880 --> 0:02:53.160 We were all choosing to listen to things that were 0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:56.200 created just for us, and it was full of great content. 0:02:56.680 --> 0:03:00.440 In fact, I think the Joe Rogan influence has been 0:03:00.600 --> 0:03:03.240 that some podcasts are very bloated. You know, there's a 0:03:03.280 --> 0:03:06.359 lot of just chit chat, particularly in some of the 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:08.480 famous Australian podcasts hosted by women. 0:03:08.520 --> 0:03:13.160 I must say it's filler in your Labia Majora. 0:03:13.480 --> 0:03:15.680 They just put where they're kind of talking about their 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.000 vaginas for an hour and a half. 0:03:18.880 --> 0:03:21.639 And it's to rejuvenate the. 0:03:21.639 --> 0:03:26.000 Vulva without I would think any kind of journalistic imperative. 0:03:26.480 --> 0:03:27.760 So that's intriguing, isn't it. 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:28.160 What is that? 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.040 Is it sort of comfort food for the audience? 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:32.919 I think. So there's something that people say about podcasts 0:03:32.960 --> 0:03:36.280 and about their particular effectiveness and their ability to engage people, 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:38.720 which is that a lot of people listen, as I said, 0:03:38.720 --> 0:03:41.760 when they're gardening, cooking, cleaning, and they say, that's because 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:45.040 you've got busy, hands free mind. Television, I think is 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:48.680 going through a similar moment in that there is the 0:03:48.800 --> 0:03:52.400 rise of something called ambient TV, which is you know 0:03:52.440 --> 0:03:55.320 your Emily empois you pop it on, you can look 0:03:55.400 --> 0:03:57.360 and scroll on your phone for three hours and still 0:03:57.360 --> 0:03:59.400 not miss a single thing that happens in that show. 0:04:00.200 --> 0:04:03.200 So perhaps that's what people are kind of engaging in, 0:04:03.360 --> 0:04:06.600 is feeling maybe less alone, feeling like you have company. 0:04:06.640 --> 0:04:09.480 And maybe it's not the way that they're talking about it, 0:04:09.560 --> 0:04:12.240 or even what they're talking about. It's just having a 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:15.880 voice that you relate to, that is there playing while 0:04:15.920 --> 0:04:17.279 you are going about your life. 0:04:18.680 --> 0:04:21.279 That has now become so ubiquitous that now there's a 0:04:21.320 --> 0:04:24.599 trend for not doing that. Dudes on planes doing what 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.480 they call raw dogging, which is just kind of staring 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:28.600 at the seat in front of you. And while hot 0:04:28.640 --> 0:04:31.880 girl walk was an earlier TikTok trend, now there's a 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.839 trend to be a hot girl out for a walk, 0:04:34.040 --> 0:04:35.320 not listening to a podcast. 0:04:35.880 --> 0:04:39.360 I've started going on what I call silent walks, and 0:04:39.400 --> 0:04:42.640 that's basically where I go for a walk. I'm listening 0:04:42.680 --> 0:04:47.240 to my surroundings and I'm not constantly listening to a 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:49.640 podcast or music or on a call with someone. 0:04:50.240 --> 0:04:52.800 As a person who if I'm not working on a podcast, 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:55.520 I'm listening to a podcast, and when I finished listening 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:58.040 to a podcast I'm writing about a podcast that sounds 0:04:58.040 --> 0:04:59.960 like my nightmare. I'm one of the people who love 0:05:00.160 --> 0:05:03.320 to have something playing when I'm just living life. 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:05.719 I would love to just get into the ambient ones, 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:07.760 but I find myself listening to ones that I feel 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:10.680 are going to improve me in some way about history 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:13.440 or cooking or whatever, and I'm constantly hitting the fifteen 0:05:13.480 --> 0:05:14.360 seconds back button. 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.160 Yes, right, you're kind of having the audiobook experience. 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:23.680 It always amazes me with say, our audience for the 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.000 Bromwin podcast, which we've both worked on, Headley Thomas's investigation 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:30.560 into a missing woman, how many people tell us that 0:05:30.600 --> 0:05:33.359 they listen while they're falling asleep because Headley's voice is 0:05:33.400 --> 0:05:36.480 kind of soothing. But yet they're also paying a lot 0:05:36.520 --> 0:05:37.880 of attention to the detail, aren't I. 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:40.280 We have a Facebook group where there's I think now 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.160 over twenty two thousand people, and the questions that people 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.840 are asking in there, We've had moments where we've gone, oh, actually, 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.160 that's a really amazing observation and yes, in the same 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:51.880 breath saying oh, I heard this while I was listening 0:05:51.880 --> 0:05:53.880 to it on the third go as I was falling asleep. 0:05:54.360 --> 0:05:57.359 It's maybe that unique ability of podcasts to create this 0:05:57.440 --> 0:05:59.760 community and for people to feel like they're participating in 0:05:59.800 --> 0:06:03.120 it when they are just relaxing and going to sleep. 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:05.960 But I did have a funny conversation with Headley recently 0:06:05.960 --> 0:06:08.720 where he had observed that people say this to him, 0:06:08.760 --> 0:06:11.000 that he puts them to sleep, and he was having 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.200 a night where he was struggling to get to sleep himself, 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:14.880 and so I thought, I'll listen to this edit that's 0:06:14.880 --> 0:06:18.279 come in from our brilliant engineer, A Slade Gibson, and 0:06:18.320 --> 0:06:19.760 he said I was out like a light in about 0:06:19.760 --> 0:06:22.479 five minutes. So there's something to it if even Headley 0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:23.800 is putting himself to sleep. 0:06:32.360 --> 0:06:36.080 Coming up the podcast power player who's got big ambitions 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:52.359 in old school media. Kristen, You've listened to an awful 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:54.960 lot of podcasts in your life and in twenty twenty four. 0:06:55.040 --> 0:06:56.200 So I'm going to go through some of the big 0:06:56.240 --> 0:06:58.240 categories and I'm going to ask you what's your best 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:00.560 ever and what's the best of twenty twenty thought. 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:05.240 Let's start with true crime. 0:07:08.320 --> 0:07:10.920 This statement is as best as I can remember. One 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.960 of the best I've ever listened to is sweet Bobby. 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:16.800 This story the one that you're about to hear. Thank you, 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:18.239 it's a love story. 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:21.160 I meant it from the bottom of my heart. That 0:07:21.240 --> 0:07:24.240 was Tortoise Media's investigation into what had happened to a 0:07:24.280 --> 0:07:28.960 young english woman when a romance had apparently gone really 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:32.560 badly wrong. The twists and turns in that one were 0:07:32.640 --> 0:07:35.160 absolutely amazing. I won't ruin it for the audience, but 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:38.440 it took you to places that we didn't expect to go. 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:41.000 Tortoise Media is quite remarkable, aren't they. 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:44.920 They are. They're really emerged as a power player in podcasts, 0:07:45.000 --> 0:07:48.080 and yes, I would rank Sweet Bobby as probably my 0:07:48.360 --> 0:07:52.160 favorite true crime podcast of all time. As you said, 0:07:52.360 --> 0:07:54.880 their ability to take you on this journey and to 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.560 do it really sensitively, I think, and that's a big 0:07:57.600 --> 0:07:59.520 part of the evolution that I think has gone on 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:03.800 in podcasts over the last decade or so. Is at first, 0:08:04.040 --> 0:08:08.320 particularly in true crime, it was a little bit salacious. 0:08:08.720 --> 0:08:10.560 Now it's a lot more victim centric and it's a 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:13.000 lot more considerate of the experiences that people have had 0:08:13.000 --> 0:08:19.400 and the people around them as well. Tortois Media has 0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:23.000 this year been in negotiations to buy The Observer newspaper 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:26.240 from the Guardian. That's been something that staff of both 0:08:26.240 --> 0:08:30.040 The Guardian and The Observer have objected to really wildly. 0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:35.440 It's a really interesting example of new media consuming the old, 0:08:35.559 --> 0:08:37.640 isn't it, and the new power structure emerging. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:42.120 Absolutely. I suppose for us here we've gone the other way, 0:08:42.160 --> 0:08:46.200 as many other publishers have in terms of incorporating audio 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:49.560 into an existing ecosystem which started with print then moved 0:08:49.600 --> 0:08:52.080 to digital. But yes, watching it go back the other 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:56.079 way and seeing journalists in particular engage in that conversation 0:08:56.200 --> 0:08:58.200 about why it's a good idea or a bad idea 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:03.160 is really interesting. One to queen of domestic violence claiming 0:09:03.200 --> 0:09:06.280 that she's a victim of violence is the biggest options 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:09.600 does a violent predatory one tortise series that we both 0:09:09.640 --> 0:09:11.880 listened to and that we have discussed at length in 0:09:11.920 --> 0:09:14.840 the office. Here is who trolled Amber. 0:09:15.720 --> 0:09:20.200 The scale of the attacks was staggering. Between twenty sixteen 0:09:20.240 --> 0:09:24.079 and twenty twenty two, more than eight hundred thousand tweets 0:09:24.120 --> 0:09:28.880 were posted with the hashtag amberhard is an abuser Only. 0:09:28.960 --> 0:09:32.920 It's another six episode series hosted by Alexi Mostros, who 0:09:33.280 --> 0:09:35.320 was the host of Sweet Bobby and the journalists who 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:39.720 investigated that it was about the highly publicized court case 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:43.000 between Amber Heard and her ex husband Johnny Depp. 0:09:43.280 --> 0:09:43.480 Yeah. 0:09:43.520 --> 0:09:46.000 What I loved about who trolled Amber was that it 0:09:46.440 --> 0:09:50.200 ignored the historyonics of the court case and did real 0:09:50.320 --> 0:09:54.600 journalism about what was happening around that court case, in 0:09:54.640 --> 0:09:59.840 particular why Amber Heard was being bombarded with huge volume 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:03.320 of hatred on social media and everything she said was 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.520 being amplified in a negative way. They came up with 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.760 some quite terrifying conclusions and it. 0:10:09.720 --> 0:10:11.880 Did feel a lot like Sweet Bobby in that way, 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:16.520 a completely different story, completely different circumstances. I wrote in 0:10:16.520 --> 0:10:19.720 my review for the paper that wherever you think you 0:10:19.840 --> 0:10:22.679 know this story is going, you could not be more wrong. 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:27.240 Where it actually lands is miles away from where it begins, 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.240 and it's done in that same really careful, considered way. 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.559 Okay, Another category is lifestyle. My husband, like a lot 0:10:37.559 --> 0:10:40.440 of men, is absolutely obsessed with car Talk and American 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.079 podcast with two Italian American guys talking about cars. 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:45.720 Hello on a log with the Car Talk from National 0:10:45.720 --> 0:10:47.800 Public Radio with us click and clack the tap. That 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:51.120 was a pretty Hello, robust, wouldn't you say? Robust? 0:10:51.240 --> 0:10:51.400 More? 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:53.120 Than robust a week. 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:56.520 One of them has been dead for several years, but 0:10:56.760 --> 0:10:58.840 he still listens to the back catalog. 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:04.000 But this car has a carburetor. Yes, it has a carburetor. Yes, 0:11:04.679 --> 0:11:09.240 you have carburetor icing an operator as yeah, and it's 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:12.000 caused by a mixture of cool air. 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:14.959 I can highly recommend it for the men of a 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:15.960 certain age out there. 0:11:16.760 --> 0:11:17.360 What about you? 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:19.480 What was your best lifestyle podcast ever? 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:23.960 And maybe off twenty twenty four? My favorite lifestyle podcast 0:11:24.120 --> 0:11:29.600 ever is Maintenance Phase by Michael Hobbs who is a 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.200 journalist and Aubrey Gordon who is a blogger. And what 0:11:32.240 --> 0:11:35.760 they do is debunk what they call junk science and 0:11:36.120 --> 0:11:37.679 quote unquote legitimate science. 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:38.200 Man. 0:11:38.280 --> 0:11:39.800 I'll tell you what all I ever want to drink 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:42.600 when we're recording is like phizzy things. And it's the 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.960 worst idea I know, because you're phizzy. Each week, one 0:11:46.000 --> 0:11:48.520 of them will pick a topic, or they might pick 0:11:48.520 --> 0:11:51.439 a particular diet book or just a concept that's been 0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:53.319 in the culture for a long time. One of their 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.400 very early episodes was about snake oil and how that 0:11:56.440 --> 0:12:01.480 transitioned from being a legitimate Eastern medicine to something that 0:12:01.520 --> 0:12:03.680 we used to describe somebody who's a little bit dodgy. 0:12:04.120 --> 0:12:08.640 Their ability to research and to synthesize and explain in 0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:13.320 an entertaining, funny and succinct way is I think, really engaging. 0:12:13.679 --> 0:12:16.280 That reminds me of an Australian one that I love 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:20.040 called do You Fucking Mind? Hosted by Alexis Fernandez. I 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:21.520 think I've tried to get you to listen to this 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.080 numerous times. I think you're too busy with maintenance face. 0:12:24.480 --> 0:12:28.360 But Alexis Fernandez is a young Australian woman who went 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.320 and did a neuroscience degree because she was intrigued by 0:12:32.480 --> 0:12:35.240 how the brain works. So each episode is a combination 0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.440 of brain facts, how the brain works, and then her 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:44.000 incredibly foul mouthed but very clever and very entertaining take 0:12:44.160 --> 0:12:46.640 on relationship issues, you know, whether it's how to deal 0:12:46.640 --> 0:12:51.600 with toxic parents in law, and there's something about her 0:12:51.720 --> 0:12:55.720 generation's fluency in the language of mental health and the 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.720 fact that they're dealing with the problems that everybody throughout 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:03.200 him history has dealt with. I'm loving hearing all of 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:06.959 this from a woman in her twenties perspective, although I 0:13:07.000 --> 0:13:09.320 must say whenever it comes on in my car. My 0:13:09.400 --> 0:13:12.360 children object to the swearing in the title, so you've 0:13:13.760 --> 0:13:17.200 it's something to be aware of. Okay, what about comedy 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.960 and humor. Something that I love is no such thing 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.520 as a fish. It is from the British television store QI. 0:13:23.920 --> 0:13:26.360 If you haven't seen it, it's a panel show. On 0:13:26.400 --> 0:13:28.080 that show, they have QI elves. 0:13:28.120 --> 0:13:30.800 They are the researchers and so four of them come 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.280 together and they bring their favorite fact. It can be 0:13:33.320 --> 0:13:36.079 about absolutely anything, and as the show has gone on, 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:39.240 they've got more and more obscure. And of course there's 0:13:39.240 --> 0:13:41.240 no such thing as a fish is one of the 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:44.240 first facts that were surfaced in this series way back 0:13:44.280 --> 0:13:51.960 when Comy Bush. So we're measuring by the number of 0:13:52.000 --> 0:13:56.920 items sold rather than by the value. And VW sells 0:13:56.960 --> 0:14:02.560 more sausages than cars. So they come to Australia and 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:04.640 they sell out the Sydney Opera House. That is how 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:07.840 popular this is. And you do learn things. I find 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.560 myself constantly saying, oh I heard this on an episode 0:14:10.600 --> 0:14:12.000 of No such Thing as a Fish? That did you know? 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:13.960 Blah blah blah. It makes me really good at pub 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:17.040 trivia if nothing else. And if you've got kids in 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.760 the car, probably fine for them to listen to as well. Kristin, 0:14:20.800 --> 0:14:21.960 thank you very much. Thank you. 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.440 Kristin Amiot is producer of the Front and she's The 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.120 Australian's podcast reviewer. You can read her column every weekend 0:14:36.240 --> 0:14:39.200 in our review section and check out all the country's 0:14:39.280 --> 0:14:43.400 best arts and entertainment journalism anytime at the Australian dot 0:14:43.400 --> 0:14:47.640 com dot au slash review. Thanks for listening to the Front. 0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:52.040 Our team is Kristin Amiot, Lea Samaglue, Tiffany Dimac, Joshua Burton, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:15:00.880 Stephanie Coombs and Jasper Leek.