WEBVTT - Sharri | 14 August 0:00:01.600 --> 0:00:03.279 Why on Sky News. 0:00:03.920 --> 0:00:05.640 This is Sharry. 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:10.560 Good Evening. Welcome to the show. Coming up tonight. Leaked 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:15.520 WhatsApp messages of pro Palestinian activists in Australia saying they 0:00:15.560 --> 0:00:20.000 hope Hermas kidnap Peter Dutton. I'll bring you those inflammatory 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:23.599 messages in a moment. This comes as Peter Dutton goes 0:00:23.640 --> 0:00:27.640 on the attack over the Albanesi government flying Hermas sympathizers 0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:31.600 into Australia. Talk about a national security crisis. On the 0:00:31.640 --> 0:00:35.800 PM's watch, our former ambassador to Israel, Dave Sharma, will 0:00:35.800 --> 0:00:38.680 be on the show to speak about what's at steak 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.680 here and Albanizi's refusal to listen to the RBA on 0:00:42.800 --> 0:00:48.080 pay rises sparks serious concern in the business community. Meanwhile, 0:00:48.120 --> 0:00:51.400 the woke left come out to defend the indefensible. Yes, 0:00:51.520 --> 0:00:53.800 I'm speaking about Raygun. 0:00:54.920 --> 0:00:58.720 In a Maldominated sport as the only woman and you 0:00:58.720 --> 0:01:01.200 look at the history of war we have had as 0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:03.440 women athletes has faced in terms. 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.240 Of criticism, belittlement, judgment. 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:11.160 Are we now living in a society where criticism of 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:15.360 poor performance is dismissed as sexism? Or Jennie O Dowd 0:01:15.360 --> 0:01:19.160 would join me to discuss a bit later, but first 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:23.160 we often sit here and lament that political leaders aren't 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:28.240 taking national security seriously enough. Well, today Peter Dutton showed 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:32.520 leadership and said that Albanesi shouldn't be issuing visas to 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.360 Palestinians from the war zone in Gaza. 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:38.920 I don't think people should be coming in from that 0:01:39.040 --> 0:01:40.880 war zone at all at the moment. 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.399 It's not proven to do so, and I think it 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:44.959 puts our national security at risk. 0:01:46.000 --> 0:01:49.440 It's an utterly different approach from the Albanesi government, which 0:01:49.440 --> 0:01:54.919 has granted visas to nearly three thousand Palestinians since October seven. 0:01:55.560 --> 0:01:59.480 About half have already arrived in Australia. Visas are being 0:01:59.480 --> 0:02:03.480 granted in as little as an hour, and some aren't 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.480 being sent to Azio for security checks at all. Dart 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.840 And Today put the issue front and center, the topic 0:02:11.160 --> 0:02:15.880 dominating parliamentary question time. This force to left wing media 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:20.239 outlets to finally report on the concerns around these visas 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:25.079 that we've been covering on this show since November. It 0:02:25.120 --> 0:02:29.519 all exposed Alberanesi's lack of answers to crucial questions about 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:33.880 our national security or Peter Dutton today open question time 0:02:34.360 --> 0:02:39.040 by asking whether someone who supports terror terrorism should be 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.000 given an Australian visa. 0:02:42.160 --> 0:02:45.280 Prime Minister, in order to hold a visa, individuals must 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:49.280 pass a character tist. Does supporting a listed terrorist organization 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.800 like Hamas pass Australia's character tist? 0:02:53.240 --> 0:02:57.480 Of course, Albanzi couldn't answer that question. High immigration is 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.640 already an issue with voters. How could the Prime Minister 0:03:00.760 --> 0:03:05.360 possibly defend bringing people into the country who support a 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:12.480 listed terror group? Instead, Albanzi accused Dutton of division. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:19.040 This week over here he can't ever say can't ever 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.920 say no to anyone on his own team, can't ever 0:03:23.000 --> 0:03:27.720 say no to attempting to raise tension in our community, 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:33.440 and is always looking for an opportunity to create division. 0:03:34.920 --> 0:03:39.120 And Albanize said by contrast, he seeks to bring people together, 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:43.520 but if he truly cared about social cohesion, then he 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:49.120 wouldn't be bringing potential He must sympathizers into Australia. The 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.560 Coalition hounded the government on this issue. 0:03:53.760 --> 0:04:00.240 Has any agency expressed any concern about any individual who 0:04:00.360 --> 0:04:04.560 has arrived from the Gaza war zone since October the seventh? 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:09.000 Can the Prime Minister guarantee that no individual who participated 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:13.400 in or supported the October seven Hamas terror attacks, the 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:17.080 worst mass murder of Jews since the Holocaust, has been 0:04:17.080 --> 0:04:21.000 granted a visa by his government. Will applicants be eligible 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.719 for a permanent or a temporary visa. 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:25.279 To the Minister for Immigration. 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:28.799 Has the minister been lobbied by anyone in his electorate 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:32.480 or any other electorate for a visa? 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.400 That's point for an individual. 0:04:34.920 --> 0:04:37.880 From the Gaza war zone since October seventh. 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.640 Of course, Albanizi had no real answers. He could only 0:04:42.880 --> 0:04:44.320 joke about the topic. 0:04:45.680 --> 0:04:47.520 One of their best, one of their best. 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:53.240 That question is perhaps of the entire time since Federation, 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.360 perhaps the most broad. 0:04:57.040 --> 0:04:59.599 Well, I don't think he'll be laughing if God forbid 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:03.080 as an attack from a Hamas supporter that he's flown 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:07.719 into the country at taxpayer's expense. The truth is we 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:11.560 don't know precisely how many Palestinians arriving from the war 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:17.240 zone have undergone rigorous security checks. Defat officials have conceded 0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:21.279 that some visas were being granted in as little as 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:22.039 one hour. 0:05:23.360 --> 0:05:26.719 Some individuals claim that visit a visa for relatives were approved. 0:05:26.320 --> 0:05:27.279 Within one hour. 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:30.719 It is possible, sure that how could you possibly do 0:05:30.760 --> 0:05:33.480 all the necessary security and other checks in just an 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:34.480 hour from an applicant. 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.400 I mean that's lightning speed approval when. 0:05:37.279 --> 0:05:42.600 We apply that vast range of information to consideration of 0:05:42.680 --> 0:05:46.360 visit divisions. So if globally a very large number of 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:48.960 our visit a visas would be done inside an hour, 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.760 the assessment is essentially looking at all the information we 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.760 hold and applying that in a number of ways to. 0:05:56.760 --> 0:06:00.359 Short the application in front it well to show just 0:06:00.520 --> 0:06:04.520 how pathetic that is. The former AZO boss Duncan Lewis 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:09.680 said in twenty nineteen that security checks can take months. 0:06:10.800 --> 0:06:13.159 Really the issue that I wanted to get to. If 0:06:14.240 --> 0:06:16.760 a person's a foreign national who's lived a substantial part 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:21.320 of their lives overseas, there would be some difficulty turning 0:06:21.360 --> 0:06:26.200 around the advice for a QSA or or an ASA 0:06:26.760 --> 0:06:29.240 from AZOS perspective, getting that advice to a minister in 0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:30.120 a timely manner. 0:06:30.240 --> 0:06:32.560 There could be yes, we would typically have to go 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:36.039 to second and third countries to test their holdings on 0:06:36.080 --> 0:06:38.760 the individual, and that takes time. 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:41.440 When you say that takes time, can you give us 0:06:41.440 --> 0:06:42.440 an indication. 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:43.520 Of by how long that it can be? 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:49.400 Several months, months, several months, not an hour, not a day. 0:06:50.080 --> 0:06:53.760 Worse than this, AZIO Director General Mike Burgess has said 0:06:53.960 --> 0:06:57.039 not all visas are sent to the top spy agency. 0:06:57.520 --> 0:06:59.480 Here was that shocking admission. 0:07:00.600 --> 0:07:03.040 And I can assure your audience that when things get 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.320 referred to Asia, we deal with them effectively. And of 0:07:05.360 --> 0:07:07.960 course there might be times when they didn't get referred to. 0:07:07.920 --> 0:07:08.520 Us in time. 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.760 There might be times when they didn't get referred to 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:15.160 us in time. That comment is highly alarming given there 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:19.240 are thousands of terrorists and her Must supporters in Gaza. Well, 0:07:19.360 --> 0:07:21.600 it was first on this show that we exposed the 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:26.280 flawed security process, and I revealed back in February that 0:07:26.320 --> 0:07:29.720 a her Must sympathizer was now in Melbourne after being 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:35.160 granted by the Albanese government a visa. Now, this right 0:07:35.280 --> 0:07:39.680 here is the list of hundreds, nearly five hundred Palestinians 0:07:39.960 --> 0:07:43.440 who've been granted visas to leave Gaza. Eighty one of 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:48.200 them he headed for Australia. And our revelation tonight that 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.480 the Albanzi government has granted a twenty one year old 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:56.440 her Must sympathizer a visa calls into question the adequacy 0:07:56.560 --> 0:08:02.720 of their security checks was in February, yet they just 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:08.120 kept granting visas regardless. Australia's Israel and Jewish Affairs Councils 0:08:08.160 --> 0:08:12.040 Colin Rubinstein said today that he was concerned that Hermask 0:08:12.040 --> 0:08:15.760 supporters could enter the country under this scheme. He said, 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:19.560 while we understand and support the need to help Palestinian 0:08:19.600 --> 0:08:23.440 civilians affected by the war her Musk launched on October seven, 0:08:23.920 --> 0:08:27.360 it's also important to remember that opinion polls of guards 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.520 or residents show a significant majority not only support her 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:36.080 Musk but also its actions on that day. And you 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:38.520 don't need me to remind you how horrific the actions 0:08:38.559 --> 0:08:39.400 on that day were. 0:08:40.320 --> 0:08:40.520 Now. 0:08:40.600 --> 0:08:44.640 Dartan has experienced backlash for his tough stance. Two weeks 0:08:44.640 --> 0:08:47.720 ago when he visited Israel, an activist in a pro 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:53.200 Palestinian WhatsApp group posted why can't her Musk kidnap him 0:08:53.480 --> 0:08:59.160 while he's there but don't return him? I rang that 0:08:59.240 --> 0:09:02.760 activist today who'd made those remarks, and she laughed at 0:09:02.760 --> 0:09:05.560 me on the phone and she said it was an 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:11.240 effing joke, go away and hung up the phone. The 0:09:11.280 --> 0:09:15.559 way Albanesi and Dutton approached this issue reflect how they 0:09:15.640 --> 0:09:19.720 see Israel and the current war. Alban Ezi has been 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:24.440 anti Israel and a pro Palestinian activist for most of 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:37.599 his political career. Owing wes Yep, Albanzi there holding the megaphone, 0:09:37.600 --> 0:09:41.280 and he was already in federal politics. But Dutton is 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.640 tough on national security. He knows that Israel is constantly 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:49.880 under attack from terrorists on all borders. It's a daily 0:09:50.040 --> 0:09:55.000 fight for survival. Dutton knows two that Islamic extremism is 0:09:55.040 --> 0:10:00.280 the current top terror threat facing our country. So on 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.800 earth would Albanezi think it's okay to kick start in 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:09.760 immigration program from the most radical, violent and bloodthirsty regime 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:15.000 in the world right now, especially without adequate security screening. 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:20.680 Albanese's obligation, not even his obligation. His duty as Prime 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:23.840 Minister is not to save people on the other side 0:10:23.880 --> 0:10:28.080 of the world. It's to protect his own citizens. We 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:32.880 have unprecedented lawlessness and racism in Australia under his watch, 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.360 and he risks adding fuel to the fire with a 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:41.319 reckless immigration program. Albanize needs to wake up and realize 0:10:41.440 --> 0:10:45.600 he's no longer a radical left wing protester. He's the 0:10:45.679 --> 0:10:50.080 prime minister and he needs to govern for all Australians. 0:10:53.760 --> 0:10:54.800 Now I'm going to come back. 0:10:54.640 --> 0:10:57.680 To that topic with Dave Sharma in a moment, but 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.720 for now, let's turn to the economy and pay rises 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.240 for public sector workers. New data from the ABS has 0:11:04.240 --> 0:11:07.320 shown that public sector wages have grown at three point 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.880 nine percent in the year to June. That's up from 0:11:10.960 --> 0:11:14.800 three point one percent a year earlier. Now, this zero 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.240 point nine percent growth is the highest June quarter rise 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.360 in twelve years. That's a good thing if you're a 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:25.680 worker receiving a pay rise, But for the rest of 0:11:25.720 --> 0:11:30.200 the country, these public sector pay rises are inflationary and 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:34.640 they risk pushing up rates even higher. Albanezi gave childcare 0:11:34.679 --> 0:11:39.760 workers a fifteen percent pay rise just days after RBA 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:45.400 Governor Michelle Bullock warned government spending was inflationary. And now 0:11:45.600 --> 0:11:49.840 unions representing aged care workers and disability care as are 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.040 set to demand pay rises. 0:11:51.679 --> 0:11:53.560 Too, And who could blame? 0:11:53.720 --> 0:11:56.280 Who could blame them? They do deserve a pay rise, 0:11:56.800 --> 0:11:59.840 but the issue is that Michelle Bullock has specifically said 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:04.280 that even modest wage gains, and fifteen percent isn't modest, 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:07.559 but even modest wage gains of three and a half 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:13.840 percent would prove inflationary if productivity growth didn't improve the 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:17.560 fact that their strong wage growth without productivity growth is 0:12:17.760 --> 0:12:23.160 risky and it's keeping inflation persistent. Well, to further discuss this, 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.199 let's bring in tonight's political panel Labor MP and Chair 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:30.080 of the Australian Labor Party Economics Committee, Andrew Charlton and 0:12:30.520 --> 0:12:34.040 National's leader in the Senate Bridget Mackenzie. Great to see 0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:38.400 you both back again. Andrew, you're famously an economist. Do 0:12:38.440 --> 0:12:41.160 you agree with the RBA that pay rises in the 0:12:41.160 --> 0:12:45.640 public sector are inflationary when productivity is as weak as 0:12:45.640 --> 0:12:46.360 it is at the moment. 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.520 Well, good to be with you, Shari, and you're right. 0:12:51.600 --> 0:12:54.640 We did get wages data out this week and that 0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:58.679 wages data showed that real wages have grown in Australia 0:12:58.720 --> 0:13:02.400 for the last three concents secutive quarters. And that's in 0:13:02.440 --> 0:13:06.840 contrast to the last ten years when Australian wages flatlined. 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.199 There was no real wages growth for ten years. So 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:13.040 I think it's a good thing that wages are moving 0:13:13.200 --> 0:13:16.720 in the right direction. Specifically, on the types of workers 0:13:16.720 --> 0:13:19.240 that you've been talking about and their impact on inflation, 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.960 I'd say a couple of things. First, of all, I'd 0:13:22.000 --> 0:13:26.320 say that most Australians would look at those workers and 0:13:26.440 --> 0:13:29.680 agree that they have been underpaid for a long time. 0:13:30.360 --> 0:13:33.320 And most Australians would also see that if we don't 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.680 lift wages in those sectors, we're going to have a 0:13:35.720 --> 0:13:39.960 workforce crisis in critical areas areas like age care looking 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:46.160 after elderly Australians and childcare educating the next generation of Australians. 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:49.640 But your point is right. If we want these wage 0:13:49.760 --> 0:13:53.120 risers to be sustainable, which we do, we have to 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:56.720 make sure they are backed by productivity gains and that's 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:59.760 why the government is so focused on lifting the rate 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:03.520 of productivity growth up from the record low that the 0:14:03.520 --> 0:14:04.920 Liberals left it at. 0:14:05.679 --> 0:14:08.680 Bridget Are you confident that the government is doing enough, 0:14:08.720 --> 0:14:11.920 as Andrew just said, to lift productivity and enough to 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.120 mean that these fifteen percent pay rises that could be 0:14:15.160 --> 0:14:18.760 replicated in other sectors, that they won't be inflationary. 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:23.880 No, I'm not, Shahi. There's no surprise in that. And 0:14:23.960 --> 0:14:26.240 I'm not the only one that lacks confidence in the 0:14:26.280 --> 0:14:30.720 federal government. It seems the Reserve Bank governor does as well. 0:14:31.120 --> 0:14:33.840 The reality is she was very very clear that state 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:38.920 and federal governments. Labor governments are not only increasing the 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:42.640 pay rate of public servants, they're also increasing the headcount, 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:47.320 which is actually leading to significant issues and keeping inflation 0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:50.480 higher than it for longer than it actually needs to be. 0:14:51.120 --> 0:14:55.480 Economists are very, very concerned about the spending profile of 0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:59.800 state and federal labor governments and the heated nature that 0:14:59.800 --> 0:15:04.960 they having in our economy. More broadly, so Andrew talks 0:15:05.000 --> 0:15:08.400 a big game on productivity. It starts with a zero. 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:12.800 It has the entire time they've been in government. And 0:15:12.840 --> 0:15:18.560 when you've got productivity dampening policies such as the industrial 0:15:18.640 --> 0:15:22.440 relations policies that they've been bringing in, such as cuts 0:15:22.560 --> 0:15:26.640 to funding critical road and rail infrastructure projects that would 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:31.200 increase the productivity, particularly of our supply chains across the country, 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.440 they're pulling all the wrong levers and that is why 0:15:34.880 --> 0:15:38.480 Australians are having to have interest rates higher than they 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:40.560 need to be for longer than they need to be 0:15:40.960 --> 0:15:45.320 and longer than they are being in comparable countries acround 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:45.800 the world. 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.160 Look, let's have a look at the levels of immigration. 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:52.920 The Daily Telegraph today reporting a massive one point one 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.160 five million migrants have arrived under the Alban Ezy government. 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:00.440 That's sixty two percent more migrants than during the rud 0:16:00.560 --> 0:16:04.480 Gillard Rudd era, when it was also quite high. Now 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:08.320 Andrew the government has argued publicly that it does intend 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:11.720 to cut the migration program. But do you think that 0:16:11.800 --> 0:16:14.960 this now could be delayed or should be delayed, and 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.800 do you think migration might be kept high so as 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:19.920 to keep Australia out of a recession. 0:16:23.320 --> 0:16:27.840 Well, Charry, you're right that migration numbers have been high, 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.680 and in particular they've been high in comparison to the 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:33.840 record lows during COVID. There was a big bounce back 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:38.560 from those record lows once international borders reopened and once 0:16:38.640 --> 0:16:42.320 students started to come back to Australia from other countries. 0:16:43.000 --> 0:16:45.280 What the government has now done is to make sure 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:48.840 that we manage the overall rate of migration. We are 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:53.160 in the process of harving the net migration to Australia 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:57.160 from its peak by the end of this financial year, 0:16:57.840 --> 0:17:01.600 and we're doing that through responsible actions to close some 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.919 of the loopholes that the previous government left in the 0:17:04.960 --> 0:17:08.639 post COVID era, by making sure that we bring integrity 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:12.720 back to our international education system, and by reforming the 0:17:12.760 --> 0:17:15.399 migration system to make sure it best suits the needs 0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:18.439 of Australia and the skills gaps that we have in 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.520 this country. So I think we're getting the migration numbers 0:17:21.560 --> 0:17:23.520 down by half and doing it in a way that 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.320 will deliver lots of positive benefits to Australia over the 0:17:26.359 --> 0:17:27.280 longer term. 0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:30.880 Bridget. The issue is the migration levels are putting more 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:34.919 pressure on housing, no doubt about it. But without the 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.680 high migration we'd been recession right now. So do you think, 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:43.240 given the economy is still teetering and we're still walking 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.320 that narrow path to avoid going into recession, do you 0:17:46.320 --> 0:17:49.840 think actually perhaps the government does need to keep migration 0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.840 levels high for at least the next twelve months. 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:55.440 No, I don't, Chari. 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.800 I think if they actually did other things, like got 0:17:57.840 --> 0:18:02.480 their spending under control and focused on productivity enhancing measures 0:18:02.600 --> 0:18:07.960 rather than politically enhancing economic measures, you'd see a different 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:10.000 economic profile right now. 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.440 The reality is we've got record migration. 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:15.800 Because the Labor Party has approved a record number of 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:17.920 visas since coming to government. 0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:19.520 That's it, full stop. 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:23.600 And if you are in our suburbs or congested regional capitals, 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.920 you cannot afford a house if you're in the market 0:18:27.320 --> 0:18:30.760 and you can't find a house to actually rent, and 0:18:30.800 --> 0:18:34.000 that is the reality. And anybody who's sat in the 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:37.439 car park that are our main road arterials at peak 0:18:37.480 --> 0:18:40.040 hour it knows that we need to put a brake 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:44.600 on migration. And I'm really tired of hearing the talking 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:48.400 points and yet again seeing no action from the ministers 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:51.359 responsible on behalf of the Australian people to get this 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:52.040 under control. 0:18:52.320 --> 0:18:54.800 Yeah, it's a huge problem, the rental crisis as well. 0:18:54.800 --> 0:18:59.040 We seeing average families becoming homeless as well. Now this 0:18:59.119 --> 0:19:01.600 is a bit of a controvert rcial idea from Government 0:19:01.640 --> 0:19:05.639 Services Minister Bill Shott, and he's announced a thought bubble 0:19:05.680 --> 0:19:10.040 perhaps that Labor is developing a digital ID program. It's 0:19:10.080 --> 0:19:13.200 known as the Trust Exchange or TEXT for shot here 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.480 he was speaking about it yesterday. 0:19:17.000 --> 0:19:21.040 Text is something brand new and world leading. It is 0:19:21.080 --> 0:19:25.000 not a wallet, nor an app nor ID, but rather 0:19:25.080 --> 0:19:27.760 it is a secure means by which to exchange with 0:19:27.800 --> 0:19:31.760 a third party who you are, your identity and what 0:19:31.800 --> 0:19:33.800 you can do your credentials. 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.720 Andrew, why do Australians need a digital ID? 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:45.080 Well, Australians should have the choice to have a digital ID. 0:19:45.400 --> 0:19:48.840 Because it will significantly increase their security online. What we 0:19:48.880 --> 0:19:50.720 have at the moment is a system where if you 0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.040 want to prove your identity to any service provider, a 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:57.080 healthcare provider, a bank, another utility, you are required to 0:19:57.119 --> 0:20:01.399 provide them with ID documentation, your passport, your license, and 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:06.040 those documents are then stored by those institutions and have 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:09.439 been the subject of cyber hacks, and that means that 0:20:09.680 --> 0:20:13.360 millions of Australians are losing valuable information which can then 0:20:13.400 --> 0:20:16.440 put them at risk. So what Bill Shorten is talking 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:19.800 about is providing people with an option where instead of 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.480 providing those documents and putting themselves at risk that those 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:27.800 documents could fall into the hands of cyber criminals, there'll 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.640 be an alternative method for them to prove their identity 0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:32.959 which doesn't expose them to those same risks. I think 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:36.520 it's important for Australians to have choice. But this is 0:20:36.560 --> 0:20:39.520 a choice that many Australians I think will find attractive 0:20:39.760 --> 0:20:42.919 because it will reduce their risk of identity theft and 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:44.640 reduce their risk of cybercrime. 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.719 Bridget There are concerns about government holding such sensitive data, 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.919 given government cybersecurity is not known to be a strong point. 0:20:54.119 --> 0:20:56.400 Do you think this is a good idea and would 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.359 you trust the government rather than the private sector to 0:20:59.600 --> 0:21:01.159 develop technology like this? 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.880 Shari, I'm a conservative. I don't trust the government over 0:21:05.960 --> 0:21:11.040 private citizens at all. But I think governments have shown 0:21:11.119 --> 0:21:15.840 to have data breaches regularly. I'm a Laura Biding firearm owner, 0:21:15.880 --> 0:21:20.159 and there's been numerous state governments where suddenly everyone that 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.959 owns a firearm in that state has been released publicly 0:21:24.560 --> 0:21:27.480 for public disclosure where they lived and where the firearm is. 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:31.040 I mean that is a public safety issue, not just 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:33.080 a personal integrity issue. 0:21:33.640 --> 0:21:36.159 So I would have significant concerns. 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.080 I think the Labor Party the last tried they tried 0:21:39.080 --> 0:21:43.640 something like an Australia card didn't go down well. So 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.280 I would be wanting to see a lot more detail 0:21:46.359 --> 0:21:50.760 from Bill Shorten and the Labor Party before I'm subscribing 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.119 to something a digital version of an Australia card. 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:56.280 Yeah, I think there is a digital version of an 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:57.000 Australia card. 0:21:57.760 --> 0:21:59.560 I just want to see the detail. 0:21:59.160 --> 0:22:01.280 And very very different. 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:03.800 Then, how is it different from the first century thing? 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:05.000 How is it different? 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.520 Well, this is a way for people to avoid precisely 0:22:09.560 --> 0:22:13.000 the problem that Bridget is talking about rather than having 0:22:13.040 --> 0:22:16.160 to give over your sensitive documents in order to prove 0:22:16.200 --> 0:22:18.600 your identity when you sign up to a new service, 0:22:19.080 --> 0:22:22.679 this is an alternative that people can choose to be 0:22:22.720 --> 0:22:25.240 able to prove their identity without doing that. 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:30.639 Until some bright young spark in a country far away 0:22:31.240 --> 0:22:32.359 works out how to hack it. 0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:35.960 Well, bright young sparks in countries far away are hacking 0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:40.600 our private sector systems every single day, and we've seen 0:22:40.640 --> 0:22:44.680 that in Optus, in Medibank, in medi Secure, on and 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:45.480 on if. 0:22:45.520 --> 0:22:48.000 So, it doesn't sound like a great idea to me, Andrew. 0:22:48.160 --> 0:22:51.160 And what this is doing is making us safer from 0:22:51.200 --> 0:22:54.479 precisely those things, because instead of Optus having to store 0:22:54.840 --> 0:22:58.280 your license and your passport, you won't have to provide 0:22:58.320 --> 0:23:02.040 those documents to Optus. So Bridget needs to read this legislation, 0:23:02.240 --> 0:23:05.240 understand what it's doing, and appreciate that what it's doing 0:23:05.359 --> 0:23:07.840 is actually meaning that you'll have to give over fewer 0:23:07.960 --> 0:23:12.440 documents and that will increase your cybersecurity produce your risk. 0:23:12.640 --> 0:23:14.640 Andrew, I think if she managed to read your thick 0:23:14.720 --> 0:23:17.119 economics textbook, I think she can get a handle on 0:23:17.160 --> 0:23:20.760 this legislation. We can talk about it next Wednesday. Next 0:23:20.760 --> 0:23:23.360 Wednesday on the show all Right, good to see you both, 0:23:23.440 --> 0:23:27.359 Bridget mackenzie Andrew Charlton. Thank you now. Let's return now 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:31.040 to today's top story, Peter Dutton's demand for a Palestinian 0:23:31.119 --> 0:23:35.000 a visa ban. This has triggered a barrage of backlash 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:37.240 from Labor and the Greens. Here was some of that 0:23:37.359 --> 0:23:38.520 criticism today. 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:41.120 I seek to try to. 0:23:41.040 --> 0:23:44.840 Bring people together, not always looking for a wage or 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:45.880 to divide. 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.719 I'm disappointed in Peter Dutton. All reasonable people know that 0:23:49.760 --> 0:23:52.560 not all people in Gaza are members of Hamas we 0:23:52.640 --> 0:23:54.480 know there's a lot of innocent people caught. 0:23:54.359 --> 0:23:55.720 Up in a war not of their making. 0:23:56.920 --> 0:24:01.760 Peter Dutton continues to campaign on cruelty. If politicians don't 0:24:01.800 --> 0:24:05.560 want people fleeing Gaza, then Labor and Liberal should join 0:24:05.600 --> 0:24:08.200 to put pressure on the extremist Israeli government to stop 0:24:08.240 --> 0:24:09.040 bombing Gaza. 0:24:10.240 --> 0:24:14.600 But security experts are deeply concern to ask BE Executive Director. 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:17.280 Justin Bassi, who used to be chief of staff to 0:24:17.320 --> 0:24:21.080 the Foreign Minister, said there needs to be clear leadership here. 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:27.280