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Speaker 1: I'll get our team. Welcome to another installment of the show.

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Speaker 1: Tiffany and Cooker's over there in HQ typ HQ all

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Speaker 1: the letters. You're looking very rugged up.

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Speaker 2: Are you cold over there? Actually I'm a bit warm.

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Speaker 2: I've got the heater on too.

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Speaker 3: I've got two jackets, one's very wooly, and the heater

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Speaker 3: is on next to me.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, yeah, I'm a bit warm.

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Speaker 1: Well, a lot of people as they get older, you know,

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Speaker 1: and hit the menopause, as you've been talking about a lot.

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Speaker 1: I mean, oh, sorry, the Perry menopause, the change of life,

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Speaker 1: you know. And don't send me an email. She's been

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Speaker 1: talking about it. Adnaws him. It's probably you'll probably get

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Speaker 1: chill blades. I don't know what they are, but my

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Speaker 1: mum used to talk about those. Have you got cold

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Speaker 1: fingers and toes?

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Speaker 4: I've always had cold fingers and toes.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I was born in the menopause.

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Speaker 1: Maybe hey, I think James is blushing. He doesn't like

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Speaker 1: to talk about such such issues and topics.

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Speaker 2: Well, you just stay rugged up. Have you got ug

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Speaker 2: boots on?

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Speaker 5: No?

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Speaker 2: I don't have got runners on. That's of course you

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Speaker 2: have just in case you've got to get away quick.

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Speaker 2: Always ready.

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Speaker 1: Always take the corner table and the corner chair, so

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Speaker 1: you've got your back to nothing. I tell you who

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Speaker 1: needs to take the corner table because he's been ruffling

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Speaker 1: governmental feathers.

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Speaker 2: What the feather ruffler.

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Speaker 1: I'm a bit nervous to even do this podcast because

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Speaker 1: the briefing that I got before Tive.

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Speaker 2: I don't want to put you or me in harm's way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm going to have to sleep with one

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Speaker 1: eye open from the day this goes to air.

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Speaker 2: But nonetheless, because we're all about the facts here we are,

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Speaker 2: I might cut me out of the edit.

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Speaker 3: And you're the only one.

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Speaker 1: You're the only one who can actually fight. You need

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Speaker 1: to just when I go to war. You're just walking

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Speaker 1: two meters.

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Speaker 2: In front of me. Don't worry about that. James Gillespie,

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to the show, my friend. How are you good? Good?

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having me Bauck Crog. You like it?

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Speaker 2: How I've thrown you under the bus before we even start.

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Speaker 3: I'm used to it by now, Craig.

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Speaker 2: How is it under there? How is it under that?

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Speaker 4: So basically building a house I had to hear at

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Speaker 4: this point.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back to life under the Bus.

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Speaker 1: I'm James Gillestie with my new podcast Life Under the

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Speaker 1: Bus courtesy of Harps. All Right, so it's been there's

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Speaker 1: been a few interesting goings on over the last month

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Speaker 1: or two on Planet You. We wanted to have a

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Speaker 1: chat about a few things.

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Speaker 2: So why don't you.

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Speaker 1: Try to distill in Craig and Tiff friendly language so

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Speaker 1: we can understand it.

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Speaker 2: What's been going on?

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Speaker 3: Well, the big thing in the healthcare space.

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Speaker 4: Over the last pretty much since February has been bulk billing.

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Speaker 4: Everyone's been talking about bulk billing and the reason behind

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Speaker 4: that is on the twenty third of February, just before

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Speaker 4: the election was called, the Health Minister came out and said, look,

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Speaker 4: if we win this election, we're going to put seven

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Speaker 4: point nine billion dollars out of an eight point five

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Speaker 4: billion dollar budget towards expanding the bulk billing incentive to

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Speaker 4: improve bulk billing for every single Australian and the media

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Speaker 4: release that came out alongside that said that it would

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Speaker 4: result in forty eight hundred fully bulk billing clinics across

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Speaker 4: the country, which is huge because at the moment it's

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Speaker 4: sitting just above thirteen hundred fully bold billion clinics across

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Speaker 4: the country. So forty eight hundred is a big improvement.

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Speaker 4: And this was all to come into effect from one

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Speaker 4: November this year if the government won the election.

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Speaker 3: And you know, I hate to preempt to.

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Speaker 4: Anyone who hasn't seen the results, but the government did

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Speaker 4: win the election. So where we're looking from one November

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Speaker 4: this year at seeing that coming into play.

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Speaker 2: What are the what are the odds?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know you don't have a crystal ball,

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Speaker 1: but do you think that that forty eight that predicted

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Speaker 1: forty eight hundred clinics being fully bulk build or having

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Speaker 1: that option for people is going to be a reality?

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Speaker 2: Like, in other words, will that promise be met?

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Speaker 4: So we don't have a crystal wall, Craig, but clean Bill,

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Speaker 4: the company that I run, has the closest thing to

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Speaker 4: a crystal wall when it comes to this of anyone

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Speaker 4: in Australia. The ball building incentive change that they announced

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Speaker 4: is extraordinarily complex. It changes the billing arrangements of every

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Speaker 4: single GP clinic up and down the country and it's

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Speaker 4: probably the most complex change that's been instituted for GP

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Speaker 4: billing practices in the history of medicare but we have

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Speaker 4: a lot of data on GP clinics and so able

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Speaker 4: to conduct an analysis to see how many clinics are

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Speaker 4: likely to take it up. And so the report that

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Speaker 4: we released on Sunday just go on goes through all

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Speaker 4: of our data on a clinic by clinic basis and

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Speaker 4: looks at the number of clinics we'd expect it to

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Speaker 4: make economic sense to take up this change, and in

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Speaker 4: a straight comparison, so just a comparison of current clinic

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Speaker 4: out of pocket costs to how much the clinic will

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Speaker 4: receive if they become fully bulk billing, we found that

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Speaker 4: seven hundred and forty clinics across the country would take

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Speaker 4: up the change. It would make economic sense for those

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Speaker 4: clinics to take up the change, bringing the total number

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Speaker 4: to two thousand and eighty one. Now that's just less

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Speaker 4: than half the forty eight hundred clinics we were talking

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Speaker 4: about earlier. But we also did a bit of a

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Speaker 4: staged comparison out as well, because there are a lot

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Speaker 4: of clinics that are like right on that edge of

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Speaker 4: maybe they're out of pocket costs are just a little

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Speaker 4: bit higher than what the bolt building incentive would be.

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Speaker 4: They might switch down as a result of that, there

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Speaker 4: are also state based systems that need to be taken

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Speaker 4: into account. So we also did a comparison of Okay,

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Speaker 4: if the economic effects of this change, alongside all the

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Speaker 4: state changes and everything like that, are ten percent, twenty percent,

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Speaker 4: and thirty percent higher, how many fully bolt billing clinics

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Speaker 4: are we going to see? And we found that the

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Speaker 4: economic effects probably need to be between twenty and thirty

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Speaker 4: percent higher than just the total payment amount that a

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Speaker 4: clinic will receive in order for us to actually hit

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Speaker 4: forty eight hundred fully bulk billiing clinics as a result

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Speaker 4: of this change.

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Speaker 1: So when they say that by November one, forty eight

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Speaker 1: hundred clinics nationally would become fully bulk billing, how do

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Speaker 1: they ensure that?

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Speaker 2: I mean, do I mean.

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Speaker 1: Especially privately owned businesses. Is there a compulsion for businesses

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Speaker 1: to comply? Is it optional? I mean, these are the

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Speaker 1: probably the dumbest questions, But I literally know nothing. I

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Speaker 1: literally know nothing about this, So me trying to pretend

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Speaker 1: I'm somewhat educated in this space, it would be silly.

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Speaker 2: But how do they ensure that number?

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Speaker 4: So this is one of the reasons we wanted to

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Speaker 4: release this report because I think a lot of people

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Speaker 4: out in the general public that they look at this

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Speaker 4: number forty eight hundred and they think, you know what,

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Speaker 4: that's a really high number. I'm going to be bolk

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Speaker 4: built from one November, and we don't want people to

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Speaker 4: be walking into GP clinics and getting bill shocked. That's

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Speaker 4: the worst thing that can happen because if they get

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Speaker 4: bill shocked, they won't go in again when they need to.

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Speaker 4: And so it's a very very complex change, and it's

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Speaker 4: important to explain out the elements of it so people

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Speaker 4: can understand. The government can't compel GP clinics to change

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Speaker 4: their billing. You can't, really, they can't say you have

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Speaker 4: to charge this amount. What they've done with this is

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Speaker 4: they've taken the Medicare rebate that a GP clinic receives

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Speaker 4: for seeing a patient no matter what, and add it

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Speaker 4: on to additional payments. The first additional payment is called

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Speaker 4: the bold billing Incentive, and it's paid to a clinic

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Speaker 4: if they bolk build the patient. So a clinic can

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Speaker 4: either collect the Medicare rebate and charging out of pocket cost,

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Speaker 4: or they can collect the Medicare rebate and bulk build

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Speaker 4: the patient and get a little bit extra from the

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Speaker 4: government for doing so. But they cannot do both right,

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Speaker 4: And then the second payment that comes in is a

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Speaker 4: twelve point five percent additional payment on top of that one,

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Speaker 4: where if a clinic is fully ball billing so bok

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Speaker 4: bill's one hundred percent of the services it offers, it

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Speaker 4: gets an additional twelve point five percent for all of

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Speaker 4: those services. And so that's that's the change.

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Speaker 2: I would imagine that.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think you said that seven hundred and

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Speaker 1: forty businesses, it would make commercial sense for them to transition, right,

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Speaker 1: what's the number here, twenty one hundred you or take,

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Speaker 1: So that kind of leads somewhere in the two and

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Speaker 1: a half thousand clinic space, or that leaves a considerable

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Speaker 1: gap from what they said would be happening to what

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Speaker 1: you think would be commercially viable. What why would a

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Speaker 1: Why would a like if I owned a medical clinic

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Speaker 1: and I had a bunch of medical professionals working for me,

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Speaker 1: and my business was a regular profit and lost business.

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Speaker 1: I need to make mon now, I need to pay

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Speaker 1: people and pay bills and make a profit because I'm

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Speaker 1: in business as well as I'm in healthcare and I

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Speaker 1: wouldn't look after people, But why would I choose to

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Speaker 1: do something which was financially disadvantageous.

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Speaker 4: So that's what really threw us off about that forty

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Speaker 4: eight hundred number, because even just looking at the high

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Speaker 4: level average statistics, we found it difficult to get there.

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Speaker 4: So if so, the bulk billing incentive payment, that first

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Speaker 4: additional payment that a clinic receives, that scales based on

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Speaker 4: where the clinic is located. It's lower in metro areas

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Speaker 4: across the country, some in the cities, and higher in

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Speaker 4: regional areas to try to encourage greater bulk billing rates

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Speaker 4: amongst regional gps in metro areas across the country where

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Speaker 4: seventy two percent of the GP clinics are located, because

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Speaker 4: that's where the vast majority of Australia's population is located.

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Speaker 4: The amount that a clinic receives accepting all full payments

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Speaker 4: from the government for bulk billing every single patient is

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Speaker 4: just over sixty nine dollars. Now, the average current cost

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Speaker 4: that those clinics are charging a patient for a standard

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Speaker 4: consultation is just over eighty five dollars, which means that

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Speaker 4: every single time a clinic accepts that bulk billing incentive

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Speaker 4: payment instead of charging the average standard consultation price, they

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Speaker 4: are foregoing sixteen.

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Speaker 3: Dollars per appointment for that.

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Speaker 4: So even just looking at that at a high level,

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Speaker 4: it was difficult for us to understand how you reach

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Speaker 4: that forty eight hundred number. Now, some of some clinics

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Speaker 4: will charge way below the average price, and so it

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Speaker 4: makes sense then for them to switch. But clinics that

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Speaker 4: are charging at that average or charging way above it,

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Speaker 4: the business decision doesn't seem there to me.

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Speaker 1: Craig, Yeah, well that I mean to me, who is

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Speaker 1: an outsider looking in and who's completely uneducated in this space?

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Speaker 1: I know we were joking that there's one or two

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Speaker 1: people or probably more that weren't particularly thrilled with you

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Speaker 1: bringing this to light, right, But I mean, if what

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Speaker 1: you're saying is true, which I believe it is, well,

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Speaker 1: then I mean that's not an opinion, that's not an

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Speaker 1: idea or a story. This is just data, right, This

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Speaker 1: is literally these are literally just numbers. And so when

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Speaker 1: you think about that sixteen dollar gap or discrepancy, and

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Speaker 1: you think, well, how often would that sixteen dollars happen

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Speaker 1: in a given day in a given clinic, and then

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Speaker 1: your times that by fifty two weeks in the year

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Speaker 1: and so which like the the you know, the income

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Speaker 1: is plummeting, but the expenses are not.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, so how how can without getting you into trouble,

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Speaker 5: how can they argue with what you're presenting, like when

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Speaker 5: you're saying, look, this is this is not a some

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Speaker 5: hysterical idea or construct or story.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is based on all the information we

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Speaker 1: have access to, which is legit well to.

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Speaker 3: Be completely honest.

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Speaker 4: Where yet to hear a coherent argument against our modeling

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Speaker 4: or our reporting. No one has come out at any

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Speaker 4: point and said, they've gotten the mats wrong here, they've

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Speaker 4: gotten the bulk billing incentive wrong. Here, that the underlying

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Speaker 4: figures that they're using, so the billing statistics that they

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Speaker 4: have for clinics are wrong. No one has at any

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Speaker 4: point come out and said and challenged us on the

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Speaker 4: mats of it, challenged us on the.

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Speaker 3: Merits of the assessment.

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Speaker 4: The entire challenge throughout the whole throughout the whole process,

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Speaker 4: has been on the credibility of clean ber, which to

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Speaker 4: me seems like the sort of thing that gets challenged

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Speaker 4: if you don't have a challenge to make on the data.

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Speaker 1: And I suppose the clinics that don't switch to bulk billing,

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Speaker 1: the the out of pocket expenses or costs for the

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Speaker 1: average punter will continue to rise.

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Speaker 4: Right, Yeah, so that's something that we've seen as well,

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Speaker 4: and Craig, I'm really glad you've brought it up. So,

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Speaker 4: because the additional payment is conditional upon a GP clinic

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Speaker 4: bolk billing, a patient who walks in the door, the

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Speaker 4: GP clinic actually isn't receiving any more money if they

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Speaker 4: don't bolk build, they're still just receiving the standard Medicare

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Speaker 4: rebate that they would have received regardless. And if they're

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Speaker 4: just receiving the standard Medicare rebate, it's reasonable to assume

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Speaker 4: that the out of pocket costs will stay the same

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Speaker 4: as well, or in a lot of cases increase as

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Speaker 4: they have each of the last two years. And so

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Speaker 4: that's a really important point to make for patients too,

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Speaker 4: because I think a lot of people look at this

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Speaker 4: headline spend and they see, you know, seven point nine

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Speaker 4: billion dollars. It's a huge amount of money. Even if

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Speaker 4: I'm not being bolk billed. This is going to lower

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Speaker 4: my costs when I go to the GP. And it's

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Speaker 4: important to know the cost before you go into that

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Speaker 4: practice because that may not actually be the case.

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Speaker 1: So where does the average person begin to understand this

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Speaker 1: and then apply this information in a practical way that

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Speaker 1: they can benefit from it? Like if I live hypothetically

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Speaker 1: in Hampton, who would live in Hampton? But if I

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Speaker 1: lived in Hampton, Victoria and I wanted to figure out

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Speaker 1: the most cost effective way without me traveling to you know, Geelong,

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Speaker 1: God blessed Geelong, how do I do that? I? Where

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Speaker 1: do I go? And so do I just go into

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Speaker 1: your website and type in my postcode?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So this is the purpose of clean Bill.

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Speaker 4: I mean, Australia already has one of the most complex

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Speaker 4: healthcare systems on earth even before these changes take effect,

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Speaker 4: and it's very very difficult for a person who is

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Speaker 4: busy with every other aspect of their lives to try

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Speaker 4: to figure out how to interact with this system, how

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Speaker 4: the different changes and policy a decisions that are made

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Speaker 4: are going to affect their everyday visit to the GP.

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Speaker 4: And so clean Bill's aim is to take all of

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Speaker 4: that information and simplify it, make it so that you

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Speaker 4: can do a search on a single directory. You can

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Speaker 4: see every single GP clinic around you. You can filter

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Speaker 4: them by price, filter them by availability, and you can

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Speaker 4: see exactly how much it's going to cost you to

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Speaker 4: go and visit that GP, before you have to pick

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Speaker 4: up the phone, before you walk in the door.

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Speaker 3: You can see exactly what that cost is going to be.

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Speaker 4: And we're going to continue to update this information throughout

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Speaker 4: from first November, taking into account the changes that GP

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Speaker 4: clinics will make as a result of this policy, and

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Speaker 4: as a result, will have updated information on our website

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Speaker 4: too that people can use. So rather than it being

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Speaker 4: kind of a cerebral discussion about how GP clinics are

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Speaker 4: going to adopt different BOLG building measures and whether it

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Speaker 4: makes economic sense, we're just going to take the figure

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Speaker 4: that matters to you, which is how much it's going

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Speaker 4: to cost you to see a GP, and we're just

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Speaker 4: going to put that online completely free of charge for

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Speaker 4: you to search up.

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Speaker 1: So I don't know if this is an answerable question,

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Speaker 1: but I'm sure it is.

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Speaker 2: How do you guys get all your data? Like, how

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Speaker 2: do you collect your data? What's that? I mean?

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Speaker 1: Because obviously you need to be I would imagine, very

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Speaker 1: transparent about all of that, so everyone can see what's

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Speaker 1: going on and go, well, you know, this is just

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Speaker 1: this is just numbers, this is just information, This is

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Speaker 1: just clear data. Ergo these, ergo this conversation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So that's a really good point, Greg, and we

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Speaker 4: have we are as transparent as we can be about

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Speaker 4: our data collection process, but at its base, it's really

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Speaker 4: not all that different from the process that you or

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Speaker 4: I would go through.

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Speaker 3: If we're trying to find a doctor around us.

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Speaker 4: We go out, we research, do online research, find every

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Speaker 4: single clinic around us around us that might be a

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Speaker 4: GP clinic and might be taking on new patients, and

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Speaker 4: then we create large scale lists for our teams of

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Speaker 4: callers to go through and call every single practitioner, every

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Speaker 4: single clinic rather on those lists and ask some very

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Speaker 4: basic questions of them, So are.

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Speaker 3: They taking on new patients?

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Speaker 4: Will they BOK bill a regular adult patients or non

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Speaker 4: concession adult patient, And if they won't, how much is

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Speaker 4: a standard and a long consultation going to cost with

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Speaker 4: that clinic for that patient, Which again is exactly what

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Speaker 4: any of us would do if we were looking for

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Speaker 4: a GP, and we just do it on a far

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Speaker 4: larger scale, with large teams of callers and researchers, data

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Speaker 4: managers as well helping us out, so that instead of

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Speaker 4: it being a case that each individual Australian has to

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Speaker 4: go out and do this calling themselves, we just do

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Speaker 4: it all in one goal and then put it on

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Speaker 4: a searchable directory so that anyone can find that information

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Speaker 4: in just one search.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know this to each who, of course,

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Speaker 1: but it would seem to me that clinics who do

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Speaker 1: totally bulk bill would have to be overwhelmingly busy, wouldn't they.

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Speaker 1: I mean, wouldn't that like which would And again I'm

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Speaker 1: not talking about any clinic or any doctor or any person,

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Speaker 1: but I'm thinking how busy would they be? And how

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Speaker 1: under the pump would all of those medical professionals be

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Speaker 1: to see all of those people, to treat all of

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Speaker 1: those people, to give them the attention and energy and time.

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Speaker 1: That must be a tricky process as well. I know

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Speaker 1: I'm diverging a little bit off the chat, but I

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Speaker 1: was just thinking practically. I mean, if there's one across

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Speaker 1: the road that's fully bulk built and one down the

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Speaker 1: road that isn't I'm guessing I know which is the

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Speaker 1: busy one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, Look, I think that you've touched on a really

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Speaker 4: important point in the last part there, Craig, is that, yes,

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Speaker 4: I imagine a lot of fully balled billing clinics are busy,

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Speaker 4: but we're also in a system a very imperfect information

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Speaker 4: at the moment. That's what clean bill is trying to fix.

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Speaker 4: So if you have, for example, the Yellow Pages, the

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Speaker 4: Yellow Pages might only list eighty percent of GP clinics

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Speaker 4: around you, and the bulk billing clinics may be too

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Speaker 4: busy or may not make enough money to advertise through

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Speaker 4: the Yellow Pages. So when you're going on the Yellow Pages,

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Speaker 4: you're only finding the clinics around you who aren't bulk billing,

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Speaker 4: and that's not helpful for you if you need a

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Speaker 4: bulk billing GP. So clean Bill doesn't rely on clinics

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Speaker 4: coming to us and paying us in order to be

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Speaker 4: a part of it. We go out and find them

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Speaker 4: and we say we're just going to put you on

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Speaker 4: the website. Everyone gets put on the website, so it's

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Speaker 4: it's not an either all thing. Every single person we

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Speaker 4: can find is on the website and then it means

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Speaker 4: that you, as a patient, have that perfect information and

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Speaker 4: can see every single clinic around you.

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Speaker 2: What do you hope happens like you? And what's your goal?

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Speaker 1: What's your intent behind all the research and the report, Like,

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Speaker 1: what do you want to see that perhaps we're not

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Speaker 1: currently seeing?

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Speaker 4: Well, we really see our goal as being twofold. The

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Speaker 4: first is related to the directory. What we hope happens

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Speaker 4: as a result of the directory is that patients have

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Speaker 4: access to all the information they need to make clear

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Speaker 4: decisions about affordable and available healthcare options around them. And

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Speaker 4: that sounds complex, but basically, we just want a world

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Speaker 4: in which people can see all of the doctors around

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Speaker 4: them and can book in with them, knowing all the

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Speaker 4: information about pricing, knowing all of the information about bookings,

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Speaker 4: knowing those doctors' specialist areas. We don't want it to

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Speaker 4: be the case that people need to do hours of

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Speaker 4: online research themselves and then take time off work to

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Speaker 4: do calls during business hours to find that information. We

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Speaker 4: just want it to be ready to go. And the

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Speaker 4: second point, and this one relates more to our reports,

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Speaker 4: is our focus with the reports is on improving the

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Speaker 4: public discussion around healthcare in Australia. We want to make

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Speaker 4: sure that our decision makers when they're considering changes to

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Speaker 4: healthcare policy, have all of the information they can possibly

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Speaker 4: have on the table, and clean Bill provides a set

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Speaker 4: of information that is not available in any other from

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Speaker 4: any other data source, but which is the information the

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Speaker 4: perspective of the system that every day Australians see every

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Speaker 4: single day.

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Speaker 3: So that's that's our focus there.

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Speaker 4: But there's also there's also a I guess behind our reporting,

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Speaker 4: an attempt as well to provide more transparency in the

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Speaker 4: public debate around how Medicare works and how the billing

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Speaker 4: of it works, so that when there are policy decisions

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Speaker 4: that are made everyday, people are able to effectively vet

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Speaker 4: what that means for them ahead of and make conscious

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Speaker 4: healthcare decisions as a result of it.

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Speaker 1: I guess November one is going to be interesting. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's the thing about putting. I mean, when you think

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Speaker 1: about it, or here's a timeline and here's a number. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's not up for interpretation, so we go, okay,

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Speaker 1: oh mate, you said at this date this would be reality.

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Speaker 1: I you know, and I'm not trying to be as

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Speaker 1: smart ass here I'm just thinking, well, that's there's either

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Speaker 1: going to be four thy eight hundred clinics nationally that

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Speaker 1: will be fully bulk billing or there isn't.

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Speaker 2: Like it's a pretty it's a pretty clear kind of metric.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it to go, oh, you did what you said

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Speaker 1: you were going to do or you didn't do what

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Speaker 1: you said you were going to do.

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Speaker 2: I wonder what's going to happen around then.

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Speaker 4: Well, I think it'll probably be a little bit delayed

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Speaker 4: after one November, so we'll be collecting our data from

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Speaker 4: one November until mid December, and then we'll be releasing

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Speaker 4: it as soon as we've collected it. So our Blue

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Speaker 4: Report will come out in early January next year, as

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Speaker 4: it has each of the last three years, and that'll

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Speaker 4: be the first, at least to my understanding, that'll be

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Speaker 4: the first comprehensive independent assessment of how many GP clinics

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Speaker 4: have started fully bolk billing as a result of this change.

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Speaker 4: And yeah, I suspect there's there's going to be a

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Speaker 4: fair bit of attention paid to that.

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Speaker 2: I bet they love you in Canberra, or at least

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Speaker 2: one or two people.

442
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: I bet, I bet, I bet he doesn't I bet

443
00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: he doesn't have pictures of or he or she. I'm

444
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: not sure who the health minister is. I should know

445
00:23:31,359 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 1: that I have, you know, like pictures of you are

446
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,880
Speaker 1: sitting on his desk framed or maybe he does with a.

447
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: Target in the middle of it or something. Mate, It's

448
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:43,800
Speaker 2: good to talk to you.

449
00:23:43,880 --> 00:23:46,439
Speaker 1: Anything else that I'm not asking you that I should

450
00:23:46,480 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 1: ask you anything that you want to drop on us

451
00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:50,400
Speaker 1: or share before we say goodbye.

452
00:23:50,920 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 3: No, I think I think you covered off on everything.

453
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,240
Speaker 3: Craig has always a pleasure to talk to you about

454
00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:55,719
Speaker 3: this stuff.

455
00:23:56,440 --> 00:23:56,680
Speaker 2: Mate.

456
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,200
Speaker 1: We appreciate you because I try not to talk about

457
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: your old man, but.

458
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:02,440
Speaker 2: You're such a ship off the old block.

459
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:04,000
Speaker 1: And I tell you, what, if he could be as

460
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 1: good as you are, Hey, gilespo sonor if you're listening,

461
00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 1: watch your son. Listen to your son and do better

462
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 1: you old fat. I'm seeing him tonight, mate, we're recording tonight,

463
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 1: so no kidding, yeah, yeah, yeah, anyway, we'll say goodbye

464
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:22,840
Speaker 1: fair but James, always great to talk to you.

465
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 2: Well done on what you're doing. I love your reason,

466
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: I love your motivation, I love.

467
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,320
Speaker 1: Your ethics, and I love how driven you are to

468
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,040
Speaker 1: do some good stuff and make a positive impact despite

469
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,679
Speaker 1: a little bit of pushback at times. Thanks for chatting

470
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,280
Speaker 1: with us on the new project, Mate and TIV, thanks too.

471
00:24:43,119 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 3: Thanks guys, Thank you guys.