1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:08,800 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Fearing Greed Business Interview. I'm sure, Alma, 2 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:14,320 Speaker 1: there's a severe disconnect between employers and employees on AI 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:17,560 Speaker 1: and the role that artificial intelligence will play in the workforce. 4 00:00:18,000 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: This is a global trend, but the disconnect is even 5 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: wider in Australia. Microsoft's latest Work Trend Index survey in 6 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: thirty one thousand workers across thirty one countries gauging attitudes 7 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: to AI and just how will leaders are preparing their 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,839 Speaker 1: workforce for working with it. Stephen Warrell is the Managing 9 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:40,199 Speaker 1: Directorate at Microsoft Australia and New Zealand. He joins me 10 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 1: in the studio. Stephen, Welcome to Fear and Greed. 11 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:43,120 Speaker 2: Great to be here with you. 12 00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: First up question which took me a while to work 13 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: out once I was reading the survey, what's an AI agent? 14 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:51,879 Speaker 1: Because it's kind of a new concept. 15 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,600 Speaker 2: It is a new concept, and I suppose generative AI 16 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 2: in this whole world of AI itself is still new 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 2: and so there's a lot that's emerging and as we 18 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,520 Speaker 2: apply the technology, we're starting to see different ways of 19 00:01:03,560 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 2: putting it to use. But GENERALVAI November thirty, twenty twenty two, 20 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: Chat GPT was the sort of official launch of that 21 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: on our consciousness, and over the last two and a 22 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,480 Speaker 2: half years we've started to see that technology being applied 23 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 2: in different ways and now today as agents, which simply 24 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 2: put different aspects of general Vai applied to processes inside 25 00:01:25,920 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: an organization that you might put to use to lower cost, 26 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: to improve the service delivery in a call center, for 27 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: argument's sake, in a bank, in a telco. 28 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: So it's like a digital employee almost. 29 00:01:37,840 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 2: Very much like that. And so that's what we saw 30 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:44,119 Speaker 2: through the survey was the real value in this wave. 31 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: What we're seeing at the moment is using general Vai 32 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 2: as a personal assistant, a chatbot if you will, which 33 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: is a fantastic way for the technology to be used. 34 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,040 Speaker 2: But the real value in taking cost out of businesses 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: and indeed changing the way in which we interact with 36 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:00,480 Speaker 2: technology is in looking at automating processes and that's what 37 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:01,960 Speaker 2: magenticai is all about. 38 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:04,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I must say, once I read that, I just 39 00:02:04,800 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: sort of thought, in our business fear and greed, think 40 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,079 Speaker 1: of it as another person to do the work as 41 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: opposed to something to help me do the work. It 42 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:15,359 Speaker 1: actually does make you think about it differently, well, that's 43 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 1: the case. Indeed, why is there such a disconnect then 44 00:02:19,080 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: between employers and employees around AI. 45 00:02:22,880 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 2: I think because we are at such an early stage 46 00:02:25,000 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: in the use of the technology, and if you go 47 00:02:27,560 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 2: back over history, you'll see when new technology waves emerged, 48 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 2: there's always concerns about what does this mean for me 49 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: for my industry? Do I have a job in future? 50 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,280 Speaker 2: These are questions that have been asked in other industrial 51 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:43,880 Speaker 2: revolutions and other stages when we've seen general purpose technologies 52 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 2: evolve and emerge on the scene, So it's not unusual 53 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 2: that these conversations would come up. And I think what 54 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 2: we're seeing are the logical questions that arise both from 55 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 2: a worker's point of view but also from a leadership 56 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,440 Speaker 2: and a managerial perspective in terms of how best do 57 00:02:57,480 --> 00:02:59,640 Speaker 2: we put this technology to work in a safe and 58 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 2: responsible way so that we can tap into the benefits 59 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:03,840 Speaker 2: that we know exist. 60 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: So what's the answer to that, How is the best way? 61 00:03:07,080 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 1: And particularly around organizational structure, because what the survey says 62 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,040 Speaker 1: about organizational structure is really interesting. 63 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 2: It is well, if I just addressed that for a moment, 64 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 2: from an organizational point of view, you can imagine a 65 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: world in future where you'll have lots of agents performing 66 00:03:19,440 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 2: all sorts of functions inside an organization, and the human 67 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: interaction will then come in terms of let's understand at 68 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,600 Speaker 2: a particular point in the process what has been produced 69 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:30,880 Speaker 2: by that agent to make sure that we're still on track, 70 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,359 Speaker 2: and then of course we can continue. So human interaction 71 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: and human engagement obviously is still very much part of 72 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: that of that way of working. But of course what 73 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: needs to happen is a conversation between everyone in the 74 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:46,400 Speaker 2: community in terms of again, how do we want to 75 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 2: use this technology safely and responsibly? And I think that 76 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,520 Speaker 2: involves unions, that involves organizations, It involves a government of course, 77 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:56,080 Speaker 2: and that's why you see that debate so clearly on 78 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,760 Speaker 2: the agenda at the moment leading into the Productivity Summit 79 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 2: that we will see here later in August. 80 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 1: What about workplace structures, the idea that we don't so 81 00:04:06,240 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: much work in functions, as I mean, it's very sort 82 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: of agile, very tech style approach. We work on projects 83 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: rather than functions. 84 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: Well, I think organizations have evolved from the last industrial revolution, 85 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 2: and so in a sense, the many assumptions we make 86 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 2: today about how organizations are organized and how we perform 87 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 2: worker based on the technologies of our previous industrial revolutions. 88 00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 2: And so this is why it becomes such an interesting 89 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: and difficult conversation, I suppose, because we're at the very 90 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 2: early stages and a lot of things are becoming clear 91 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 2: as we move ahead, as we understand just exactly how 92 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: to use the technology. Of course, organizational structures will evolve 93 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 2: as well as we start to appreciate how we might 94 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 2: implement a gendic AI and the sorts of processes that 95 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 2: lend themselves to the use of technology, Because there'll be 96 00:04:52,279 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 2: other places where the technology won't be as relevant or 97 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 2: as applicable. 98 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,240 Speaker 1: It sounds to me that it's going to be a 99 00:04:58,279 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: real challenge for management to actually work out how to 100 00:05:01,960 --> 00:05:04,919 Speaker 1: use AI in a way that actually means the resources 101 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:08,679 Speaker 1: are being used more efficiently or efficiently, and let alone 102 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:10,720 Speaker 1: more efficiently within the organization. 103 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,080 Speaker 2: I think it's a challenge today already shorn in terms 104 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 2: of productivity as a nation, we're at decade low levels 105 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,800 Speaker 2: at an economic level for Australia, and obviously we're not alone. 106 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:23,159 Speaker 2: There are many countries that are struggling as well, and 107 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:26,039 Speaker 2: every organization, our economy is trying to find ways to 108 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: be more efficient and effective. The survey that you started 109 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: with also tells us that eighty percent of respondents report 110 00:05:32,839 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 2: a capacity gap, that is, they don't have enough time 111 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 2: or energy to do the things they need to do today. 112 00:05:38,000 --> 00:05:40,239 Speaker 2: And so it doesn't they too long to look around 113 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: any organization to see that many many ways in which 114 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,839 Speaker 2: things could be better, and we think cogenetic AI and 115 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: this new wave of technology presents many of the answers, 116 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,360 Speaker 2: not all, but many of the answers to those questions. 117 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,520 Speaker 2: And so yes, it's a challenge, but it's also a 118 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,359 Speaker 2: massive opportunity for us as leaders, as organizations, and I 119 00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 2: would say as a country to think about how do 120 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,000 Speaker 2: we use this moment to make the most of it. 121 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:06,600 Speaker 1: Stay with me, Stephen, we'll be back in a minute. 122 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:12,840 Speaker 1: My guest this morning is Stephen Warrell, Managing director at 123 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:16,839 Speaker 1: Microsoft Australia and New Zealand. Just before the break, you 124 00:06:16,920 --> 00:06:19,320 Speaker 1: talked about how we as a country can use it. 125 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: That survey thirty one thousand respondents, thirty one countries. Where 126 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,840 Speaker 1: does Australia sit in the AI evolution? 127 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,480 Speaker 2: We're more skeptical when there are other surveys that confirm 128 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: the same conclusion that we saw that there's still many 129 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,240 Speaker 2: questions being asked here that other countries aren't asking. And 130 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 2: so you see different economies approaching this moment in a 131 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:42,279 Speaker 2: different way. Many economies and countries looking at this as 132 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 2: their opportunity to leap frog, perhaps those that haven't participated 133 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 2: in some of the technology evolutions of the last couple 134 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:52,039 Speaker 2: of changes that we've seen. And so I think again 135 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 2: that's a natural consequence of who we are as a 136 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: community and where our economy has evolved from and where 137 00:06:58,080 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 2: we're headed to. But I'm also confid and with conversation 138 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:03,719 Speaker 2: and getting the right people at the table to talk 139 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 2: through the potential applications of the technology again managing the 140 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: risk and making sure we do it in a safe 141 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 2: and responsible way, that this can be an awesome opportunity 142 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 2: for us as a country to continue to progress and develop. 143 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: The survey talks about frontier firms. 144 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 2: Explain there, Yeah, frontier firm is one essentially that it's 145 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 2: understanding the opportunity and then taking the steps necessary to 146 00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:28,000 Speaker 2: leverage the technology. They're also the organizations that are very 147 00:07:28,040 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 2: clear on urgentic AI, and so they talk very clearly 148 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,480 Speaker 2: about establishing human leadership for agents in their processes, to 149 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:39,040 Speaker 2: drive efficiencies, to front better ways of delivering service, and 150 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,320 Speaker 2: to drive cost out of their business, but to do 151 00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:44,239 Speaker 2: it in a way that meets community expectations and obviously 152 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 2: manages the interests of the employees inside that organization. 153 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 1: Today, STEM, I'm going to say, you've used the word 154 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 1: agentic a few times, and this is one of those 155 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: new words in it. 156 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:55,840 Speaker 2: It is. Unfortunately my industry, we have a habit of 157 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 2: comming up with new words and this is one that 158 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: we may have to get used to think of it 159 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 2: as a process. It's been automated by a new piece 160 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,600 Speaker 2: of technology and we call it an agent. 161 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, what's the cost if we don't if Australia 162 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,520 Speaker 1: doesn't keep up with it, or if individual firms don't 163 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:11,160 Speaker 1: keep up with it. 164 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,480 Speaker 2: Look, I think it doesn't take a long look around 165 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 2: the world to see countries stating clearly that they want 166 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 2: to be leaders in the use of artificial intelligence, many 167 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 2: in our region and many in Europe and of course 168 00:08:21,120 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 2: the US. It's very obvious that many have identified this 169 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: wave as the one that will help them to establish 170 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:31,239 Speaker 2: competitive advantage and obviously to help them as they continue 171 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,760 Speaker 2: to shift their economies. So I think there's a very 172 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 2: clear signal to us as a nation to take the 173 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: steps that are necessary. And maybe back to your last question, 174 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: the thing that we really need to do is to 175 00:08:43,600 --> 00:08:46,000 Speaker 2: have the conversations that I'm pointing to, but also to 176 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 2: skill ourselves to understand how to use this technology. And 177 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 2: I don't mean you know, one or two people inside 178 00:08:51,920 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 2: the organization or the tech team I'm in. Every leader 179 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 2: and every employee in any industry needs to think deeply 180 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 2: about where will I impact the job or might it 181 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,400 Speaker 2: impact their job, so that they can form their own 182 00:09:03,440 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 2: point of view, which then I think raises the quality 183 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,280 Speaker 2: of the discussion that we then have. 184 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:11,680 Speaker 1: Okay, if I'm listening to this podcast this morning and 185 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,240 Speaker 1: I run a business, be that five people, fifty people, 186 00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: five hundred people, and I'm saying that we're using it, 187 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:21,280 Speaker 1: but that's probably just using copilot to be perfectly honest, right, right, 188 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 1: what do I do? Like, what should I go out 189 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: and do today? Right? 190 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 2: Well, this is one of the things that I give 191 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:27,400 Speaker 2: great credit to the New South Wales government for just 192 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:30,199 Speaker 2: as one example, other governments around the country are doing 193 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:33,560 Speaker 2: the same thing, but they're bringing education, to make it 194 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: available for smaller medium businesses and to make it easy 195 00:09:36,960 --> 00:09:39,720 Speaker 2: for anyone in the community to tap into the latest 196 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,559 Speaker 2: in relation to AI or cyber or machine learning for 197 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:45,440 Speaker 2: argument's sake. In fact, the New South Wales government has 198 00:09:45,440 --> 00:09:48,439 Speaker 2: an investment out at Matobank, the Institute of Applied Technology, 199 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:51,000 Speaker 2: which runs a series of short courses. It could be 200 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 2: a webcast for an hour all the way through to 201 00:09:53,840 --> 00:09:55,640 Speaker 2: a couple of weeks or a couple of months, depending 202 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 2: on your appetite. And it's those classes that we think 203 00:09:58,520 --> 00:10:01,480 Speaker 2: are so vital to help small and medium businesses, mums 204 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 2: and dads to understand what is this in called AI 205 00:10:04,559 --> 00:10:07,240 Speaker 2: AGENTICAI and all the other buzzwords that might come out 206 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 2: of the industry, and how could it impact on my business, 207 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,199 Speaker 2: how could it impact on my life? Acknowledging at the 208 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 2: same time, Sean that people are using this technology already 209 00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:19,040 Speaker 2: on their phones and so Australians have been great users 210 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:21,320 Speaker 2: of technology in the past and we will again. And 211 00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 2: I think it's through education and the skilling programs that 212 00:10:23,800 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 2: I'm talking about where I hope we can raise the 213 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 2: quality of the conversation so that we can then put 214 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:30,199 Speaker 2: it to use in the national interest. 215 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: Stephen, thank you for talking to Fear and Greed. 216 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: Thank you, Sean. 217 00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:36,840 Speaker 1: Now Stephen Warrel, Managing Director at Microsoft Australia and New Zealand, 218 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: that this is the Fear and Greed Business Interview. Join 219 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: us every morning for the full episode of Fear and 220 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:44,959 Speaker 1: Greed Business News you can use. I'm Sean elma Enjoy 221 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,439 Speaker 1: your day.